Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 39 of total 39 in this topic |
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 31, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
|
Sorry I'm lumping two unrelated quests together in one post. Time to upgrade, but I have not been following the market and feel a bit out of touch with what's out there. I'm not necessarily looking for the very best choice because they usually comes with a high price tag, but rather, I'm asking you true climbers here, what's the best bang for the buck choice? Say, what would you choose for yourself?
1. Day pack: I looked up on OutdoorGearlab reviews and found that they have a huge gap between day packs (usu. ~20L volume) and backpacking packs (usu. 60+L volume). What about one that can take a climbing rope, a full trad rack, along with other climbing gear and food for the day? Something between 30 and 40L capacity. Anyone has experience with Osprey Stratos 36?
2. Rope: the type of climbing I'm into is multipitch trad with occasional cragging. I used to just get a 60m dual pattern, but I now realize that more and more routes are set up in such way that time can be saved with a 70m rope. I'm not a sponsored climber who can dispose a skinny rope frequently, so I need my rope to last. What's your current day choice of rope (make, model, diameter, and length)? Knowing what other climbers choose can help me evaluate my options.
Thanks for any input!
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
|
What about one that can take a climbing rope, a full trad rack, along with other climbing gear and food for the day? Something between 30 and 40L capacity.
My "crag pack" for anything other than sport climbing has always been 50L. That allows me to get the following in there:
A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. For sport climbing I can get by with a 40L. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.
The Trango Crag pack gets great reviews and is dirt cheap, $100. Guidebook and stinky shoe pockets on the outside, built in rope tarp.
I wouldn't trust OGL reviews for anything. Consistently poor.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
|
All the suggestions have been noted and will be studied. You guys are awesome! And please continue. I like to see more real world user reviews coming...
A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. For sport climbing I can get by with a 40L. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.
A keen observer would point out that this new pack would most likely be carrying two left shoes - downright impossible to climb in, but they spoon well in a pack. Also, no helmet is allowed in or near the pack. Guidebook is unlikely unless authored by Young. Lunch will be two 5-year-old deformed powerbars. Given the differences, a 35L might just work?
Oh, the stinky shoe pockets sound like a wonderful idea, but since you'll need to read the owner's manual to know what they are for, I suspect the pockets will most likely be used to store the two 5-year-old deformed powerbars.
By now, it's probably clear that only the rope question was for myself, right? ;)
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:49pm PT
|
I'm not sold on using a 70 meter ropes for multipitch trad routes. They're heavier and you need to bring more gear to protect longer pitches.
Did a route in the Black Canyon a couple of years ago. My partner insisted on bringing his new 70 meter rope. He led a pitch I had done before. He was soon out of sight and at about 65 meters he came to a screeching halt. I waited and wited and waited....finally I heard his "off belay."
When I got to him I saw that he had climbed past a very comfortable ledge (where I had belayed) and up into a chimney where he had fashioned a dubious and uncomfortable belay.
He felt he needed to stretch the pitch because he had a 70 meter rope. It would have been much faster and much more comfortable for him if he had belayed on the ledge. The anchors would have been better and placed much more quickly and he could have flaked out the rope on the ledge.
Yep....he did the same damn thing a few pitches higher.
I use a 70 meter rope for sport climbing, an 80 meter rope for Indian Creek but only a 60 meter rope for multi pitch trad.
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
|
Not sure if it's still in production, but the Marmot Eiger pack has suited me well for cragging and lightweight backcountry use for the past decade. It's just the right size, and you can strip it down for fast and light endeavors.
|
|
looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
|
I used to use a Mammut Infinity 9.5mm 70m (and still do for single pitch stuff), but for multies I've dropped down to 60m (though bumped up to halves, fwiw-Trango Amphibian 8.1mm, love 'em). The Mammut was a fantastic rope straight out of the package, and is still great after 3 years of TR abuse, but the extra 10 meters generally was just extra weight and rope management.
As for a pack I have a 45L High Sierra Tangent that I got at Costco for 50 bucks and have beat the living hell out of without so much as a loose seam to show for it.
Re: a big pack, I assume that means you walk back out past the start of most of the routes, so you can leave it at the bottom? Because if not I imagine it would be easier to sling most stuff and just go with something light like an REI Flash for just food and water.
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
|
I get by just fine with a 35L Osprey Mutant. It's bomber and climbs better than any pack I've ever used. With all straps compressed I hardly notice it's there. It also rides higher than my gear loops on my harness. A big plus unless you like being annoyed as hell all climb long.
For a rope I use a 70M 9.4 Petzl Fuse. I use it for both sport and trad routes. The one I have now is 3 years old and still in amazing shape for how much it's been climbed on. For alpine I use double 8.4 Beal Cobras. Also pretty durable ropes.
As far as Doninis point about 70M ropes goes, I have climbed on a 70 for over ten years. I don't bring any extra gear. I also have been stuck at a shitty belay or two but those where entirely my fault for misjudging the length to the next good belay.
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
|
I coil my rope old school around my knees and carry it outside the pack. This allows for a smaller pack. Also, I often climb with Noobs who feel cool carrying the rope and rack for me.
So, go small with the pack: 2-4 ltrs water, first aid, shoes, layers, TP kit, snack.
Carry all else on the outside. Lots of great packs available.
All ropes are good. 2-pattern is fantastic if you can get it. I usually get what is on sale or at charity auctions.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
|
I took all the stuff i needed to carry.... and went into Nomads in Josh. They have a great selection of packs and im sure you can find what you need...
Ahhhh the 70m debate.... one is perfect intill its not.
I still like two 50 doubles. Just try and get down from... lets say: The Obelisk with one 70m.
Edit:
Spider.... if you have it all on the outside, how do you keep from becoming stuck in the brush?????
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
|
Guy, pay attention, he explained that you would be carrying his rope.
|
|
climbingcoastie
Ice climber
Sacramento, CA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
|
Short to no approach = REI Flash. Light weight, easy to climb with and the perfect size
Anything else including two nights alpine ice climbing = Cold Cold World Chernobyl. Not the lightest pack out there, but it's burley and will last forever at a reasonable price
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 06:53pm PT
|
For anything under about ten pitches with a short approach I just hydrate like mad ahead of the climb, put a liter bladder and a protein bar in one of these and go.
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
|
Here's 2 choices on packs:
Black Diamond Stone 45. I have an older version, lasts forever.
Mountain Hardwear Splitter 40
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2015 - 10:10am PT
|
Thanks again guys for chiming in.
I'm surprised to see that some people use different packs depending on the approach. Guess if you have the storage space ... For me, it'll be one pack as long as I'm not backpacking. (Yes, my own pack needs an upgrade too.) Most content stays in at all time, and only food, water, and clothing items are emptied and refilled after and before climbing. I'll stay away from the haul bag like packs because I personally like some external pockets and straps for easy access of things as long as they are not excessive. So far, I have not been stuck in a brush yet.
I hear you guys about the ropes. It seems that if I'm only getting one rope for an all arounder, a 60m dual pattern 9+ mil is the way to go. Let me search around for a Labor Day deal. Good to know what brand and model worked for others.
Happy climbing!
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
So far, I have not been stuck in a brush yet.
Go and do a real approach.... something more than JT or the Quarry
Or be like some of my partners, get the smallest pack you can find.... fill it with as much gear as it will hold then tell me "Thats all I can take, you take the Rack and the Rope, OK."
happy climbing
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
There are at least a hundred choices at $130.00 or less.
The toughest haul bag materials will last the longest, The best, hybrids, have removable / storable everything,for hauling and have a heavily padded shoulder harness system for a super comfy carry. I have been looking for years to replace three or four packs that I rotate in & out depending on location and season.
The packs I like best ~ the hybrid haul bag style ~ many of the Well known brands have a polyurethane coated or Durathane pack option. But the specialty smaller shops will usually turn out an almost custom product.( Metolious, makes some thing like six versions.
(watch that there is a short three wrung daisy chain on the top outside of the pack)
Also
The Arc'Teryx Alpha FL 45
is stream lined -and I saw it for As little as $150.78 New, @ Trekkinn.com
pasted from the page:
Arcteryx Alpha fl 45 Pack
8 product reviews
Arc'teryx · Nylon
The N400r-AC? nylon 6 ripstop fabric is durable, light and weather-resistant so it can take a beating on your next adventure. A coating on both sides of the fabric and taped ...more »
$141.95
+$8.83 shipping. No tax
Trekkinn.com
(768)
Shop
$238.95 Backcountry.com
$239.00 Arcteryx.com
$238.95 Moosejaw
Compare prices from 5+ stores?
Reviews. , , ,
(the new Trango Crag pack, pictured on the 1st page Is a 'knock off' some might say improved on, of this pack, and now also is only $80 bucks)
The best deal I saw. .? That's hard to say, the September sales are amazing and if zippers are your, thing I saw some great packs under or just over one hundred bucks.
Also look at the Scott's or British sites if you are willing to pay & wait for the shipping.
I'm am very hard on my packs, so I go for heavy two layer or overlapping construction.
Then there is the need to show up with the top of the line, best name brand. . . .
. I don't make the scene often, but when I do, I Make the scene. . .
( leave a 'dos eXs' impression . . . The Most Dangerous Man, . .)
To some, a fancy label is important. 1st impressions . . .blah blah blah . . . ( offshore built, is a boo-hiss )
but
a deal on Pataguchi is a deal on Pataguchi. . .
and Patagonia Cragsmith 35L Pack, BlaCk Diamond, Creek 50, or the rope bag that I went with the Stone 45! Were all on sale..
Ho yes now that I went and read the thread Crankster's already said The stone45 for a top loader w/ a full side Zipper . . .
( I hope they last as long as the first ones that the North Face and WildThings used & that it stands up on its own)
Then if you trust zippers the clam shell offering from Mountain Tools is a great choice.
Also The best buy if you want the best bag made by far~ The Atom Smasher by. FIsH products. Spend the Extra bucks and get the Delux, it adds to the volume and close up tight better. It is the last pack you will ever need for rock climbing, so be warned, if you buy one and loose your grip on it that loss will haunt you you will want Yours back and not a New one , I can't explain that though
Now having said all of that, go look at the thread that I bumped on this very topic from 2009.:"Your ultimate climbing pack?"
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2015 - 02:26pm PT
|
Thanks for the detailed information. I have to say, trekkinn.com confuses me. Sure, $141.95 appears to be a killer deal, however, the only item in the drop down is a 32 liter. I thought by the name, the pack should have a 45L capacity!
Anyway, I just purchased for myself a Patagonia Cragsmith 35L. Good price, and I like it how I can fully open it from the back, and still have the option to throw in some small items last minute at the top. Psyched to put my hands on it.
Still undecided on the rope...
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 6, 2015 - 11:35pm PT
|
Wow, 35L is tiny! It could be a climbing pack for me if I were a pro who only uses a new skinny rope that never has the chance to fatten up and does not need to carry a rack because the draws are already prehung on the one and only route that I am projecting all day. Apparently, I had no clue about volume (my previous pack was a hand me down and had no label). Now, having seen the Cragsmith 35, I think I need at least 50L. Cragsmith 35 will be returned. Thought I should post an update in case others are also searching...
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
Check out Deuter. Quality rucks for a reasonable price. I got the Act Lite 65+10. Under 4lbs (3lbs. 12 oz.). Bomber and holds all my sh#t perfectly. I mostly rope solo so all the gear gets humped by me and everything fits inside with a custom external built in pouch for the helmet. Compresses down well for smaller loads. I love the built in waist-belt pouches. Very comfy carry, 170$ with a deal at AZ Hiking Shack. There is still a lot of room left in the load out in the picture.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Wow, 35L is tiny!
Well, yeah.
My "crag pack" for anything other than sport climbing has always been 50L. That allows me to get the following in there:
A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2015 - 08:17am PT
|
I know, I know... Elcapinyoazz, you were right from the beginning. :)
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
Why don't you answer the question then?
That is my day pack unless I am climbing with a partner then I use a Mountain Hardware Agamma, wearing my harness and the rope in a mountaineers.
Ropes you really can't go wrong with in my opinion
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2015 - 07:46am PT
|
Buying blind? Go check out a store. Fill a 50 liter with some kit, a rope and shoes ~ less than half full, 50 liter can be to big, to heavy if full, unless you are a beast.(6ft tall at least)!
If your plans call for a week out then you may need a 50 liter but for going three days or overnight a 40+ liter (3000 cu.inch volume) seems to be the choice size.
I too am disappointed with my Black Diamond, purchase, a Stone 45 liter, that is not as well built as I had hoped.
Where's the Beef?
The size is right, it can handle overflow, has a solid protective back, and carries well - if fit right.
But
the Actual construction of the pack seems weak and is poorly designed. Ignoring well know 'do not do' in pack construction.
if you want them to last, no seams at wear points; like a straight across the bottom of the back of the pack, where the body and pack rub.
Another sad change that screams 'Planned Obsolescence' is the lack of a bright interior second layer. The pack is not double lined...
I will use stuff sacs, to protect the pack from my gear. . . . Adding stuff sacks sux.
I wish I had taken my own advice, and gone to a store. The pictures showed a bright blue storm skirt that I thought fully lined the pack, I got this idea because I am replacing a 30year old Son Of Crag, that is fully lined, in the same blue color.
A black pack interior is a bad thing. It makes alpine starts that much more foggy in reduced Light, visibility into the bag is nil.. I will attach a Bike light inside the pack! Ho wait, I can't, no interior loops - at all.
The all black exterior can turn a simple sun setting into an epic be-nighting; if you can't see your pack.in the dark.
I need to find some full strength reflective webbing for now I have added fuschia bright green 9/16 tape/webbing to the small diameter grab loop on the pack - not ideal in keeping things stream lined - I do a lot of bushwalking
Edit:-this, three days after. . .
Rainbow & fuschia pink. Tied around the top of the pack.
The 1inch tubular rainbow webbing is girth hitched in one spot. In the back, to the Questionable shoe string grab loop (1of 2, these are an insult! and will be separated by one sturdy tug on the 1st adventure!!) then the ends of the tubular webbing is pre tied with a very loose 'open' water knot. The pink 9/16th is then threaded through the tube tracing the knot. The result is a full loop that runs around the shoulder harness, spreading the load. The in the field use ,was ~ once established, hanging, the front skinny criminally negligent
Loop is clipped to from a three point hang point.
After one use in my opinion,There is no full strength anything in the Stone 45 ! It carries well for new, let's here from someone who's used it to hit up some real climbing areas. Lone peak in Utha ? Anyone in Vegas use the BD Stone45? how about Chochise Strong Hold in Arizona? END,EDIT
I also worry that the zipper is not covered by a storm flap, exposing it to wear and leaking.
Again, adding stuff sacs will help,but rain /snow and freezing temps?
I do not like the way things frost up in Haul bags, in the winter, caused by the lack of breath-ability of some 'Durathane' type coated packs.
The trade off of the full waterproof, dunk ability, should not be for a soon to be leaky pack.
The way it looks, even with Just careful use, And never using the zipper !, the unprotected zipper is bound to leak over time.
The best wearing most versatile pack that I found at any price was a old and great design, a bit small but the pedigree speaks for it self:
Wild Things,
(now having switched to military spec), they make two types of packs the Andinist (?)is the same as it ever was plus an added front pocket. The pack uses a full side zipper to reduce the pack volume. I used a Wild Things Andinist for many years and loved it.
In the realm of affordable; I found that prices were dropping.
Then I got obsessed,
Cilogear? Lots of praise for their work sac?
I could not find a FROG pack or a LIPKe I did find custom pack makers in Texas, Oregon, Montana N C & other places. Many companies have gone mostly Medical/search and rescue. & military/ Law enforcement ..,. . .
(Lipke, went into supplying search and rescue and then??)
Mountain Equipment Company, MEC, the Canadian 'rei'
From da USA?
Cold Cold World ~ , (with a stiffer 2 stay back board)
MISTY MOUNTAIN THREAD WORKS ~
Mystery Ranch !~ (need to make a 35+10 version of the 'x20', see link)
There are many other pack makers who's packs I've loved. I just named a few.
I also looked at "Vintage" stuff some used and new off brand or great deals. Also strange off brand " copy cat, knock off style packs.
Edit:
just a lot of packs out there!
I saw a used Wild Things Ice sac, it seemed small?
?? Roam Ready ~
will build to suit !$$$!
this is a small Texas company I know nothing about,
The materials they use are the best, weight to strength,
Three packs; the High Point, the Devon and the Tatical Summit???
These companies all make three great looking choices of packs.
The largest seem big at +50 liters. That is a needed size if winter alpine is in the cards. When that is the case (added 'comforts' & weight) I kind of like a beefier frame pack, than the simple frame sheet and padding of a crag hauler.
The thing I liked most, about the three, of the many companies out there, these were the most approachable companies turning out top of the line packs .
( I think, also they may do some custom work & carry life time warranties)
Patagucci and Black Diamond only go a year ! .? With the warranties.
The big name brands? What is big?
Every decade has its stars but every so often a small brand that may not last, is worth a try. With that in mind, - for the fun in replacing gear every few years (it is fun to get fresh new toys)
I looked at all the ads for packs and googled things.
I looked into some things being offered on a site called ~ esty ~ it is a kind of E-Commerce site, for, artists, crafters, so I think I got there by looking for things, using the key words "Custom bag" but also found a used Dolt bag, for 12 bucks shipped, I need it as a stuff sac to protect the cheesy big named pack I went with, given the $100, it seemed like a lot of pack & my last pack from Black Diamond, (The bigger than the black), grey Son Of Crag, is till going strong after thirty years. I don't think this thing , the Stone 45 "Rope Bag", I bought will make that sort of mark.
Still. . . I guess the Black Diamond Stone 45 liter (in small) Is a serviceable pack. It is not a work horse, and will be trashed by daily use.
For Weekend Warrior status, with some care, and not using it for a chair it should do, it remains to be seen though.
"One pack to rule them all?"
I can't believe it is so hard to find a bomb-proof simple pack.at a reasonable price.
$300.00? ? Or more?Thats just too much!
I m going to see what the return policy will do for me. If I get to do it over, I will broaden my search. The Germans and Brits, or the Scott's must make 'forever' packs.
Again I wish I had taken my own advice,
Edit return on 9/10/15:
Mystery Ranch Backpacks | Built For The Mission
http://www.mysteryranch.com/
A product driven company from the beginning, Mystery Ranch designs packs for the job that needs to get done, for the people committed to doing it, with the best ...
You visited this page on 9/9/15.
Hunting
Dragon Slayer - Crewcab - Marshall - Metcalf ...
Mountain
Snapdragon - Sweet Pea - Terraplane - Rush ...
Military Packs
ASAP - 3 Day Assault BVS - Komodo Dragon ...
Backpacking
Climbing - Terraplane - Big Mountain - ...
Fire Packs
Hot 3 - Hotshots - Hot Top - Hot Spot with Crew ...
Urban
Streetfighter - 3 Day Assault - Invader - 3 Way ...
More results from mysteryranch.com »
There are so many pack makers the main driving force behind the Mystery ranch is The Dana of The old Dana designs: think original 'Bomb'pack.
|
|
Pete_N
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
|
Hi Mei...I recently replaced my tattered old Wild Country pack with a new one after lots of research. My criteria were very similar to yours though I eventually concluded that I didn't actually want a pack large enough to stow all of that (rope, rack, shoes, harness, food, extra clothes, helmet, water, etc). More important to me was a sturdy pack that'd hold stuff I couldn't or really didn't want to wear on an approach, with no external stuff to hang on bushes and in chimneys. Also, I didn't want to pay an arm and a leg for something that really was basically a bag with some shoulder straps. Load carrying comfort was semi-important, but my bigger concern was not have dangly bits to get me in trouble. (I have enough of those as is.) I bought a Cold Cold World Ozone...it's ca $105, 38 liters, and beautifully made. It doesn't "hold it all", but it's slightly larger than my old WC and has certainly been more than adequate. In any case, I'm pleased and suggest that it's worth a look.
Let us know what you settle on...
|
|
Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 09:32am PT
|
Cilogear? Lots of praise for their work sac?
Cilo is versatile and carries well. I like their shoulder strap design. Many of the details are nice. The packs are not too heavy (though they are not fantastically light, either -- those 13 or more steel D-rings add up).
But. If you don't like too many unnecessary critical seams, poor stitching, narrow seam margins, and untaped seams at critical stress points… well, you should see my Worksack. It's got all of those problems. Unlike the mfr's above, I won't buy a second Cilo pack. Put it next to any of the bags in my post immediately above, and the contrast is pretty painfully unfavorable to the Cilo.
RDB has compared a few packs, and posted about it. His conclusions are same as mine (and he's a vastly more experienced climber than I am). http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/climbing-packs-part-2.html
|
|
CCT
Trad climber
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 11:27am PT
|
It depends on what you are doing. I don't like to climb with a large pack, so usually I wear my rope as a backpack, with gear on the harness, and a small camelback-style pack. This is for approaches up to 2 hours.
If I'm spending the night out before an alpine climb, then I wear a big comfy backpack for the hike in, and the small pack for the climb.
The only time you need a pack larger than a camelback for a climb is when you expect to spend the night on the route, like a long traverse, or if you are climbing in winter and need crampons, ice tools, bulky down jackets, etc. For that, I use the smallest pack possible to hold the minimum gear needed to keep me warm and alive. 34L, I think. This is enough to hold my neoair sleeping mat, 1lb sleeping bag, down jacket, jetboil, and dehydrated food. Rope goes on top, and helmet goes outside. Partner carries the rack. Or vice-versa.
My recommendation - get 3 packs. 1) A small, comfortable camelback-style pack for everyday use. 2) A large comfy pack for backpacking en-route to climbing. 3) A medium not-so-comfortable pack that climbs well for multi-day traverses or winter. 4) If you do multi-day winter alpine climbing, you will need yet another, larger pack. Personally, I can't carry that much weight up a climb, so I don't do that style.
Bonus- you can use the large comfy pack (#2) to carry gear when you are toproping.
Happy climbing!
Sample single day:
http://www.rei.com/product/866606/osprey-rev-15-hydration-pack-51-fl-oz
Sample comfy backpack:
http://www.rei.com/product/881000/gregory-baltoro-75-pack
Sample multi-day/winter pack (this is the one I use):
http://www.rei.com/product/887703/gregory-savant-38-pack-2014-closeout
Hint - that thing you think you need? You don't need it. Leave it at home, save weight and space, and enjoy your climbing more.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
|
No specific pack recommendations here, but general reflection on qualities important for a pack.
I have a 25 yr old and a 15 yr old REI midsize overnight backpack, both with holes from dragging across granite and from squirrels grabbing food. I've come to the conclusion that it is easier to synch down a bigger pack than to stuff more things in a small one. And I like having enough fabric and back liner so cams don't dig in my back. And I don't do camelback water pouches anymore- depending on one flimsy water container has proven painful when problems arise.
If I have little enough stuff to fit in a BD Bullet pack on a climb, nowadays I would just skip the pack and stuff my things in the zipper pockets of a vest kept around my waist. But a bigger under-utilized pack for approaches is convenient for tiny loads as well as a few ropes, full rack, and multi-day camping.
|
|
Dtails
climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
|
STAY AWAY FROM THE REI FLASH 22!!
I bought last years (2014) REI Flash 22 pack. It looked to be a good size to use as a lightweight climbing/summit pack, could hold, rope, light rack, puffy, some food, and Camelbak bladder. However in an effort to save weight and make it more comfortable, REI used a mesh type material for the shoulder and waist straps. When they bar tacked the buckles to the mesh it created perforations so that now it was like the tear-off edge on a postage stamp.
The whole shoulder suspension system almost completely tore off the pack after only about 6 months worth of lightweight use. When I took it back to REI the gal behind the counter said "this is not a CLIMBING pack" "It is not meant for climbing gear!!"
WTHF??? So, if I put 10-20lbs of books in there it would be OK?
Also, for anyone that hasn't heard, REI is only warrantying their stuff for 1 year now. They lost me as a customer when that policy kicked in.
I recently switched to the Patagonia Ascentionist 25, (on sale for about $60), pretty bare bones but sturdy and at least I know Patagonia will stand behind it if there is a problem.
|
|
CCT
Trad climber
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
|
Agreed that comfort trumps lightweight in a pack. I can't speak for the REI Flash in particular, but in general, I'd rather carry a few extra ounces than deal with thin straps eating into my shoulders, or the sunscreen bottle poking me in the back. Bonus is that comfortable packs tend to be durable and less expensive too.
I just looked at that Patagonia pack you bought and returned (the Cragsmith 35L). I'm sure it's a fine pack for many applications, but personally I wouldn't like it because it's too streamlined. Easy access food, route photocopies, and that layer I just took off and might put back on in a minute, all go in little pockets or straps on the outside of my camelback-style pack.
|
|
Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
|
|
|
Sep 13, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
|
Mei,
It depends on what you will be doing, as others have well noted. Are you talking about a pack to climb with while doing climbing or a crag pack? A crag pack is one you bring to the climbing area with your gear in it, but generally leave it at the bottom.
Any pack, even a very expensive Cilo type, will be shredded in very quick time if used for cragging. When the bottom of a pack without special protection material and design is moved across the rock with a rack inside, the rubbing pack material between the rock and the metal will wear holes in it in no time.
If you mostly will be doing cragging as described above, you will want a pack designed specially for this activity. I just purchased the Black Diamond Creek 50 which is specially designed for this activity. It has burly haul-bag type material over the entire surface, yet is very flexible. It is definitely a step up from the BD Bullet 50 that I used to have. I also bring along a very small pack such as a REI 18L backpack to climb with. Using two packs like this is the way to go, as others have noted. The Creek 50 is also the right size that you can do climbing with it if needed and it will not be torn up when moving through tight quarters.
|
|
Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
|
The way I see it - you should not have to carry all the gear in one bag, unless you are solo climbing you have a partner, and should divide the gear equally between you (I agree with the unequal split for noobs). Personally, I carry a rope bag for all climbs, sport or trad, that can be brought up the cliff and used as a rope bucket. The rope goes in uncoiled and comes out easy as you belay. The bag I use is so old and thrashed I don't remember what brand it is, but it has no outside pockets or straps, only the shoulder and waist strap.
The other bag is the one you want to carry the gear in, although for the hike in some is transferred to the rope bag to equalize the weight, such as water, climbing shoes, headlamp, and fleece sweater. Then, it is personal preference whether to have other accoutrements, pockets, straps, etc.
Bottom line, unless you are preparing for a bivouac, you don't need a large pack for most day climbing trips. My second pack for climbing is usually an expandable camel back (although I agree with Nut's assessment that depending on the bladder may risk leaks).
Don't forget, always carry a whistle, a knife, and a lighter for emergencies.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
Was one
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
|
Thanks again all for chiming in. After finding out that the good looking 35L Cragsmith is too small, I've decided to use my backpacking pack (one I used for back country climbing trips) as my day climbing pack -- climberdude, this is the pack I wear from the car to the base of the climb. Always a minimalist, I rarely wear a pack on the all. I got by with a fanny pack for some long multi-pitch climbs, but mostly to provide secure storage and easy access for my camera.
I've retired my former day-climbing pack to a gym pack. With all the crack climbing gear and lead rope, I now seem to require an actual pack when walking into a gym. I did many climbing trips with this pack, but it can only store at maximum a full rack plus a tag line and my personal climbing gear, never both rope and rack. And every time, I do a jigsaw puzzle trying to fit everything in and the pack has no void left once packed. But the effort seems more daunting now that I got older. Sadly, I don't do climbing trips as often as before due to lack of partner(s), so I think I'll just hold off buying a new pack. Now, with my backpacking pack, I can just throw everything down the pack and cinch it down. I just need to be careful not to carry too much extra stuff simply because of the abundant room.
|
|
cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2015 - 01:46am PT
|
For me, the most important thing in a climbing pack is me not hitting my head on the back of it when I look up! Super annoying!
(I'm a short person with a short torso, so most packs *do-not-fit*).
|
|
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2015 - 09:14am PT
|
I used to be metric deficient too :-) but come on...
The REI Flash for rope and rack?
My three packs that I recommend:
Mtn Hardwear Direttissima 50- older version. Burly, expandable. Heavy and not the best suspension.
Used for full backcountry climbing days- rope, rack, lots of water, food, extra clothes, etc.
Boreas Lost Coast 35- normal climbing days without kitchen sink. Light, great suspension, simple thoughtful design. They make larger versions. Excellent.
BD Bullet 18?- small pack for long multipitch routes. Shoes, water, shell, smokes. I'd rather not climb with a pack but this one is good and sure beats all that BS hanging on your harness.
The biggest hot buttons for me with a pack are-
-Top loader with two straps on the "brain".
-Relatively simple exterior- I don't need drink hammocks/branch snaggers all over my pack.
-Key clip in interior pocket. Can't believe some packs still don't have.
-Slim/vert profile. I want that shˇt tight to my back not all poopy diaper style.
Number one thing is FIT, no matter intended use.
If your shop can't fit you properly, go somewhere else. And if you're ordering online, it's a roll of the dice, as evidenced on this thread.
|
|
msiddens
Trad climber
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2015 - 09:52am PT
|
Hi Mei! Recent bought a TNF Cinder 55- it's about perfect and I'm impressed. So is Honnold apparently, check it out and hope to share a rope or trail soon
|
|
ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
|
Oh man, I need the pack that Cosmic posted up...that's EXACTLY what I need! What are you asking for it?
One consideration you may make is are you pulling sherpa duty? Are you climbing with people who never bring enough water, always forget the small cams, never enough draws, and loves leading wide crack?
Being sherpa means you gotta have a sherpa suitable pack. Although heavier, sherpa size will hold all the gear and make loading and unloading easier and faster. No tetris and smashing required.
I'm no Sherpa, but I often get sherpa duties. Now, my go to Day pack is the one that everyone says is too big and too bulky at 65L (maybe more?). I didn't start using this pack and in fact resisted for years. But somewhere between the almond croissant, the thermos of coffee, the big 4 and 5 camelot, with the big green wagon wheel on top, the big pack got pulled out more and more. That was before the loppers got added in! And because it's built to handle weight, I always have a comfortable carry. Really saves my shoulders and bad back, especially on hour plus approaches.
I don't think I can climb with it though. I'd rather have the bigger pack than having to back off a lead because I didn't bring the big #4.
Bigger is NOT better, but sometimes it's more comfortable ;)
As for ropes...BUY ALL THE ROPES!!!! ;)
Good luck!
Cheers
LS
|
|
| Messages 1 - 39 of total 39 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!