The Kurds

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 26, 2015 - 10:03am PT
Almost all other topics these days pale in comparison.

With 40 or 50 NATIONS lined up against these ISIS demons, why aren't they dust already?

This cannot be blamed on Obama alone. I understand his reluctance to throw American bodies at this profound mess. We've lost enough American infantry boys over there already. But why can't someone put together a ground force of 10,000 troops from each of these countries? Don't we all have a stake in this?

Why do we let this cancer exist?

It's not the least bit simple.

But the Kurds of Turkey, Iraq and Syria are taking the lions share of the fight to ISIS and wearing the most pure honor these days, or so it seems to me.

They deserve better from us.

This is a great film, made by an Israeli. Watch it when you get a chance. Don't just blabber out your canned political response, and remember that Europe, Africa, Asia and other Middle Eastern countries all have a stake in this too. So for anyone that wants to just throw it all at Obama's feet, forget it.


Just watch the film.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 26, 2015 - 10:14am PT
U.S. Troops are already fighting Isis. They are just shielding the war weary U.S. Public from knowledge of that fact.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/17/politics/aumf-isis-house-vote-fails-us-troops/


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878897/American-troops-battle-ISIS-time-attempted-attack-militants-Iraqi-base.html

http://www.rt.com/usa/215323-americans-ground-battle-isis/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/troops-have-landed-iraq-help-6289686
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 26, 2015 - 10:21am PT
U.S. Troops are already fighting Isis.

Yup. Got an email last week from a longtime Shipmate indicating one of his snipers just may have beat the longest confirmed kill snipe (by a Brit SOH btw) of over 2475mike's. Of course it will not be official for a while cus we're not there.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:10am PT
Survival, good video. It could have been edited better in the first 15 minutes but when he got
to the women speaking it really got good. Nobody's gonna keep those people down with
women like that! It was amazing to see that 'platoon' led by a woman. The ISIS prisoner
talking about retreating because they're afraid of the women shows how hollow their beliefs are.

All I gotta say is: send those peeps Lapua 338's and provide 'em with some of our women
flying A-10's and AC-130's to rain some hell on the savages.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:50am PT
I still have one first cousin in Beirut. She is a social worker, mainly dealing with geriatric issues (which makes it interesting when she visits my 103-year-old mother in Fresno). She says one unexpected consequence of the ISIS barbarism is that it is driving a great many moderate Muslims to Christianity. She - and others I know - say they are overwhelmed with recent converts escaping from Syria.

In one sense, I owe my life to the Kurds. My mother, along with other Armenians who either had political connections to Germany or had skills needed by the Ottoman Empire during the war, was not deported during World War I. There was a significant population of Armenians and Pontic Greeks in Turkey until about 1923, when the last massacres took place. My mother's family escaped the massacre of 1923 by bribing the Kurds to take them to Beirut, which was under French jurisdiction. Without the Kurdish presence, she would probably have been killed, and I would not exist.

John
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:56am PT
Nice, John, and interesting that the Kurds seem to have a history of open-mindedness.
I wonder why they, after a period of rapprochement with the Turks, re-newed
attacks on them. Is there a nihilistic faction within the PKK that cannot
bring itself to countenance any accommodation with the Turks?

And speaking of Turkey, when will the limp-wristed Euros put some pressure
on them to stop both the transit of ISIS fighters and the immigrants to Europe?
It's such a joke that Europe has been considering admitting Turkey to the EU,
but then what grossly inflated bureaucracy ever willingly limits itself?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
U.S. Troops are already fighting Isis.

That's not even the point! Where are the Belgians, Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards, Brits, Austrians, Bulgarians, Cypriots, Czechs, Danes, Finns, Greeks, Hungarians, Norwegians, Poles........


Should I go on?

And what about these ass kicking Jordanians that we heard so much about?

Egyptians, Saudis....blah blah blah....anyone? Buehler??
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 26, 2015 - 12:43pm PT
What was your point? Why haven't they been eliminated?

Oil is cheap, supplies are in glut mode. ( the cheapest is buying from ISIS.)
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-16/isis-selling-cheap-oil-its-enemies-syrias-government-kurds
They even sell to the Kurds

And to eliminate them would invoke the ire of radical Sunnis, including the Saudis.

That's why.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
Aren't Brits flying with us out of Incirlik? You did note that it was only
a week or so ago that the Turks, our so-called allies, finally agreed to
'permit' sorties against ISIS from Incirlik. With allies like that...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
Meanwhile they move dirty oil back and forth through sleezy middle men and kill Kurds.


What a f*#king unbelievable mess.

Luckily Werner will show up with the easy answer that nobody but him knows what is actually going on.

Werner is my favorite conspiracy guy of all time.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
Werner already weighed in.


Nov 17, 2014 - 09:18am PTYou Psycho politard loons are the ones destroying mankind and the planet.

All of you Psycho politarded loons .....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
Werner is also a psycho politard loon.

Admit it......
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 26, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
You did note that it was only
a week or so ago that the Turks, our so-called allies, finally agreed to
'permit' sorties against ISIS from Incirlik. With allies like that...

And at exactly the same time the Turks started bombing (with US made planes and bombs) the Kurds, halting their advance on ISIS and a consolidation of Kurdish control of a section of the Syria Turkish border.

Those that have been thrown under the bus tend to become friends.

http://www.debka.com/article/24834/Kurdish-oil-is-another-Netanyahu-Obama-head-to-head-front-
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 09:24pm PT
See, nobody actually knows jack schit about this, otherwise there would be 80 posts already. It's that important of a subject.

We need to educate ourselves.
WBraun

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
No ....

Only you don't know jack sh!t.

If you really want to know there's guys that know and you'll be unhappy with answers you'll get because you're an American msm brainwashed.

Then you'll jump up and down like monkey and scream conspiracy ....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
Thank you swami.

Now tell me some things you know.

It's so easy to just say "If you only knew", isn't it?
Gal

Trad climber
going big air to fakie
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:54pm PT
Well, I don't know that you will find this interesting, but I just had dinner with Iraqi Kurds last night, as well as Iraqis from mid and southern regions too. The Kurds were very kind, they said their program was postponed (as in, they were not able to get to the U.S. to their university teacher program/they are all teachers) for 2 years because of the ISIS issues. They said that they are unable to travel to Baghdad because they could go through an ISIS region, and they would be kidnapped, families bribed, and then they killed. They said in their region up north is fairly secure right now, but traveling to Baghdad is not an option. My impression is they want to be their own separate country, not a part of Iraq (that's what they told me). I also spoke with someone from near Baghdad (not a Kurd) - in our brief conversation, he said every day of being here in the u.s. was an absolute gift. He said he was lucky to be alive, as back home he witnessed two bombings/one of a medical clinic right in front of his eyes, there were bodies everywhere, and he was lucky to be alive. He said there was much homelessness... he said he would enjoy every moment here for the time being/and deal with his return home once the time came... and then our conversation got cut short. Each of these teachers have unique stories, and I am trying to get permission from our gov and theirs to do a documentary - but this will be very hard because we absolutely must keep their security as a top priority. I too wonder why it isn't easy to get rid of this ISIS - my impression is the Iraqis that I was speaking with feel very abandoned by the US. Now that I have had a chance, and will have more chances, to talk with these amazing people - I am doing more research into their history. We have Sunni, Shiite, and Kurds all studying together to teach English with new methods when they return to Iraq - it is inspiring! They are truly taking big risks. I want to hear each and every one of their stories, but as for last night, we enjoyed Iraqi food, which I am now a huge fan of - it was scrumptious. i want to find out more from them all about their point of view. I will be asking more questions over the next weeks. And one more sidenote: They also said they were amazed by the apathy of people in the U.S. - they said in their country, all anyone talks about is politics and their opinions - and that everyone is very informed of the news & events. They are surprised with how much Americans are out of tune and don't seem to care - which is true/and an embarrassment imo. They impress me in many ways - while I try to be informed, they are helping me to know I must do better - and this will be by tuning in more to the BBC/which I think truly reports much more about world events without such a censored/slanted point of view that we see here in U.S.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 27, 2015 - 12:06am PT
The information is out there, but people don't want to know.

Three terms that sum up the collapse of our society: oblivious (to what is happening), denial (when confronted with the facts), complacency (when the knowledge is unavoidable)

Where is Neo When We Need Him — Paul Craig Roberts
August 26, 2015

In The Matrix in which Americans live, nothing is ever their fault. For example, the current decline in the US stock market is not because years of excessive liquidity supplied by the Federal Reserve have created a bubble so overblown that a mere six stocks, some of which have no earnings commiserate with their price, accounted for more than all of the gain in market capitalization in the S&P 500 prior to the current disruption.

In our Matrix existence, the stock market decline is not due to corporations using their profits, and even taking out loans, to repurchase their shares, thus creating an artificial demand for their equity shares.

The decline is not due to the latest monthly reporting of durable goods orders falling on a year-to-year basis for the sixth consecutive month.

The stock market decline is not due to a week economy in which after a decade of alleged economy recovery, new and existing home sales are still down by 63% and 23% from the peak in July 2005.

The stock market decline is not due to the collapse in real median family income and, thereby, consumer demand, resulting from two decades of offshoring middle class jobs and partially replacing them with minimum wage part-time Walmart jobs without benefits that do not provide sufficient income to form a household.

No, none of these facts can be blamed. The decline in the US stock market is the fault of China.

What did China do? China is accused of devaluing by a small amount its currency.

Why would a slight adjustment in the yuan’s exchange value to the dollar cause the US and European stock markets to decline?

It wouldn’t. But facts don’t matter to the presstitute media. They lie for a living.

Moreover, it was not a devaluation.

When China began the transition from communism to capitalism, China pegged its currency to the US dollar in order to demonstrate that its currency was as good as the world’s reserve currency. Over time China has allowed its currency to appreciate relative to the dollar. For example, in 2006 one US dollar was worth 8.1 Chinese yuan. Recently, prior to the alleged “devaluation” one US dollar was worth 6.1 or 6.2 yuan. After China’s adjustment to its floating peg, one US dollar is worth 6.4 yuan. Clearly, a change in the value of the yuan from 6.1 or 6.2 to the dollar to 6.4 to the dollar did not collapse the US and European stock markets.

Furthermore, the change in the range of the floating peg to the US dollar did not devalue China’s currency with regard to its non-US trading partners. What had happened, and what China corrected, is that as a result of the QE money printing policies currently underway by the Japanese and European central banks, the dollar appreciated against other currencies. As China’s yuan is pegged to the dollar, China’s currency appreciated with regard to its Asian and European trading partners. The appreciation of China’s currency (due to its peg to the US dollar) is not a good thing for Chinese exports during a time of struggling economies. China merely altered its peg to the dollar in order to eliminate the appreciation of its currency against its other trading partners.

Why did not the financial press tell us this? Is the Western financial press so incompetent that they do not know this? Yes.

Or is it simply that America itself cannot possibly be responsible for anything that goes wrong. That’s it. Who, us?! We are innocent! It was those damn Chinese!

Look, for example, at the hordes of refugees from America’s invasions and bombings of seven countries who are currently overrunning Europe. The huge inflows of peoples from America’s massive slaughter of populations in seven countries, enabled by the Europeans themselves, is causing political consternation in Europe and the revival of far-right political parties. Today, for example, neo-nazis shouted down German Chancellor Merkel, who tried to make a speech asking for compassion for refugees.

But, of course, Merkel herself is responsible for the refugee problem that is destabilizing Europe. Without Germany as Washington’s two-bit punk puppet state, a non-entity devoid of sovereignty, a non-country, a mere vassal, an outpost of the Empire, ruled from Washington, America could not be conducting the illegal wars that are producing the hordes of refugees that are over-taxing Europe’s ability to accept refugees and encouraging neo-nazi parties.

The corrupt European and American press present the refugee problem as if it has nothing whatsoever to do with America’s war crimes against seven countries. I mean, really, why should peoples flee countries when America is bringing them “freedom and democracy?”

Nowhere in the Western media other than a few alternative media websites is there an ounce of integrity. The Western media is a Ministry of Truth that operates full-time in support of the artificial existence that Westerners live inside The Matrix where Westerners exist without thought. Considering their inaptitude and inaction, Western peoples might as well not exist.

More is going to collapse on the brainwashed Western fools than mere stock values.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/08/26/neo-need-paul-craig-roberts/
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Aug 27, 2015 - 01:26am PT
Western peoples might as well not exist.

Eastern preaching.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Aug 27, 2015 - 02:02am PT
WTF?
Lemme see if I got this straight:

Our entire economy is based on oil.

We buy oil from our worst enemies and thus make them billionaires.

Our billionaire enemies fund angry young men to become suicide bombers and jihadists, who then attack us around the globe.

We are sending our young men to sh#t-holes in the desert to die and be killed to defend our oil sources.

Is that correct?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2015 - 02:14am PT
Well yes, sort of....


Except, as I predicted, I'm not actually qualified to speak on the topic.
Only you don't know jack sh!t.

Although weirdly I know enough to actually bring the topic up in the first place.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:04am PT
There's information out there but you have to dig and have the BS filter turned all the way up.

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/260820154

http://diplomacy.bgnnews.com/syrian-rebels-claim-turkey-tipped-off-al-qaeda-against-us-trained-fighters-haberi/8842
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:01am PT
Gal, nice story. I think Americans can be cut a little slack based on geography. What is the
Europeans' excuse? As I mentioned before they're all about bringing Turkey into the EU
while conveniently ignoring the fact that Turkey is a huge part of the problem. To put it another
way, why should we care, other than about the oil? We've never cared about 50 years' worth
of atrocities right across Africa. Aren't we somewhat justified in becoming tired of being the
world's policeman? What would you say to one of the thousands of American mothers who
have lost children over there, that they died so that those people could go on killing each other,
as they have for centuries, just because they disagree on whose offspring of Muhammed
got a raw deal?

BTW, Survival, the wife really liked yer vid! She's ready to go volunteer!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:36am PT
There's information out there but you have to dig and have the BS filter turned all the way up.

Quite true. We also are reaping the consequences of the standard world geography and history curriculum with which most Baby Boomers came in contact. Our atlas that came with our 1960 edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica had a full-page map of Israel, and a full page map of the entire near east. That was the extent of its near eastern coverage. Georgraphy was the same. The texts spent far more space on Israel than the rest of the near east put together.

We learned very little about the Ottoman Empire (well, in school, anyway. I learned a very great deal for reasons to whcih I alluded in my previous comment), except that it ended the Byzantine Empire and that had an effect on accelerating the Renaissance. Later we learned how far that empire extended into Europe before it was pushed back.

Although we learned the term "balkanization" in world history, we didn't learn why the Balkans, and the rest of the Ottoman Empire was the way it was. I find it ironic, speaking as an Armenian whose families suffered greatly during the last days of the Ottoman Empire, that the Ottomans were much more tolerant rulers than most other conquerors. Rather than exterminating or completely assimilating the peoples they conquered, they simply lived among them. The Kurds are simply one of many ancient peoples who lived in the Empire, along with Assyrians, Armenians, Albanians, Greeks, et al.

After their defeat in World War I, Turkish resentment of non-Turks grew. This led to the inevitable alienation of the Kurds. In any case, when the western colonial powers divided up the non-Turkish territory of the Ottoman Empire, their boundaries had no particular respect for the differing ethnic and religious groups. Thus, there were Assyrians, Kurds and Armenians in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran. There was also a significant population of adherants to the B'hai faith in Iran and, of course, a large Kurdish population in Turkey.

ISIS, in contrast, is doing what the Ottomans did not do, namely ethnic and religious cleansing. The ethnic and religious minorities must flee from their historic homes or die, just as my mother's family did in 1923. Unfortunately for civilization, however, western intelligence concerning near eastern affairs is still remarkably weak. One thing that Obama did right, in my opinion, was not send troops to Syria, particularly early in the rebellion. We had no idea who the "good guys" were or weren't, and doubtless would have ended up taking actions that helped ISIS. Perhaps that explains the European reluctance to act, as well.

John
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
Thanks Reilly.
WBraun

climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
Kurds are a dairy product obtained by coagulating milk in a process called Kurdling .....

Muahahaha ......
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
That's curds

And crude to refer to a people as rotten milk.

A very Turkish comment.

(and Iranian and Iraqi)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2015 - 05:22am PT
Poor bastards are getting killed from every side, and yet still seem to be the most reliable and sane people in the region. The women's faces are uncovered, the men respect them, and they fight like warriors. How much more can we ask of a friend in that part of the world??
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2015 - 08:10am PT
http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/280820152
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 08:33am PT
They also said they were amazed by the apathy of people in the U.S.

Because 'mericans are more interested in who won the baseball, football, or basketball game.
We also need to know what the kardashians are up to. Now, when does that new mall open?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:08am PT
http://www.aei.org/publication/is-turkey-heading-to-partition/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fdpaeideas
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 10, 2015 - 09:42am PT
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34495161
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
Not good - Amnesty Int accuses Kurds of war crimes:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/12/us-mideast-crisis-syria-kurds-idUSKCN0S62A620151012
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 24, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/12/03/syrian-kurds-are-winning/
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
Dec 28, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
Poor bastards are getting killed from every side, and yet still seem to be the most reliable and sane people in the region. The women's faces are uncovered, the men respect them, and they fight like warriors. How much more can we ask of a friend in that part of the world??

Most Kurdish leaders are communists. For decades US policy was to arm the Islamic extremists to fight the communists. Now we've gone full circle and want to arm the communists to fight the Islamic extremists.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 28, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
As of today a pretty bold group consisting of SDF (Syrian Defense Forces) soldiers, Kurds, and Christians has been layin' into ISIS and are making advances around Aleppo.
http://aranews.net/2015/12/17263/

The USAF continues to pound positions in Northern Iraq/Southern Syria, the Russkies have Central/Northern Syria. Bombing the piss out of their smuggled oil.
http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=12/28/2015&SO=&HC=1&ID=440081

ISIS is in big trouble, look for them to become desperate.
gumbyclimber

climber
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:59pm PT
The Kurds are the nicest and most hospitable people I have ever met. We couldn't stop them from giving us everything: market vendors, taxi drivers, travel agents. Nobody would take our money. They'd just put their arm around me and say, "Friends come before money!" But you're a travel agent and I'm a tourist! We spent 10 days or so sitting at the bus station playing dominoes. The loser has to buy the round of tea but they would keep playing until we won and then look at their watch and suddenly have to call it a day.

They are the largest ethic group in the world that doesn't have their own country. Sadly, they aren't in any danger of getting it either because they are an Iranian people and, therefore, the big winner would be Iran.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:36am PT
Russian aircraft hit 556 targets in 3 days.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4745380,00.html

Somebody is taking Syria seriously....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2015 - 09:54am PT
Blue, less caution about what they're hitting is one explanation. It's already known for example, that they were hitting forces that we were avoiding because they want to prop up Assad. Also, they can drop their bombs on anything and say they've hit a "target".

The USA is taking it seriously.
WBraun

climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:57am PT
You've been 100% brainwashed by reading MSM bullsh!t lies as usual ...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 10:04am PT
If you had to choose between Assad and ISIS, who would you rather have running Syria?

It boils down to that. We encouraged the deposing of Assad, which led to destabilization of Syria. And crazy Islamic thugs took advantage of that.

Just like Egypt and Libya. Nice Arab Spring, huh? Thanks Hillary, Susan Rice, Samantha Powers, and the rest of the sorority. Remember when Hillary was dancing in Libya after Ghaddafi was brutally killed by the same Islamic thugs? She laughed and said. "We came, we saw, and he died", referring to Ghaddafi.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 10:40am PT
I remember that, Werner. It was Linsey Graham and McCain wanting to support the 'good' rebels to destabilize Assad. Those two are indeed what you could call 'warmongers'.

They must be in the pockets of weapons-manufacturing lobbyists. There was no logical reason to overthrow Assad, especially if you had paid attention to what had happened in Eqypt, Libya, and even Iraq, when you remove a heavy-handed authoritarian and leave a vacuum.

Some countries, unfortunately, need authoritarian rulers. Or else.
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