Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic |
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
|
I read about that, crankster, and thought about how many large oak branches I've slept under. I can't imagine the grief of the family when joy turns to such overwhelming tragedy.
John
|
|
martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
|
Terrible. I can't image the parents grief.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
|
I'm sorry for the loss to family and friends, certainly not something that normal reasonable people would have anticipated. And such a bitter pill to take joy out of an activity that would otherwise be a source of serenity in learning to cope with the grief and loss.
I have often experienced the paranoia that a tree or part of it would fall on me. Sometimes I move my camp so as to avoid falling pine cones or branches or slanting trees, but often I just accept the risk.
Maybe I'll listen to that voice of paranoia a little more now? I was standing in the camp4 parking lot a few years ago (2010?) when a huge tree fell over on a calm afternoon. Just a couple of feet difference and it would have destroyed several cars. Amazing that nobody was hurt in that.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
|
These freak occurrences are just so random, and probably to a large degree unpreventable, but horribly sad. I'm saying a prayer for the families of those poor children.
I never feel comfortable camping under large trees.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:47pm PT
|
I know what it feels like to loose a child.....my thoughts are with them.
|
|
Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
|
Very Sad!! We're in the midst of a historical tree kill. All the trees in the Sierra are dying! Ponderosa's, Cedar and Oak seem to be getting the worst. The drought and then the beetles. If you drive through any parts on the west side of the Sierra between the 3,000' to 6,000' you'll see huge groups of dead trees everywhere!! The falling rate and the fire fuel are BIG issues now!
|
|
jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
|
How many trees have humans killed, yes the kids dying is sad, but nature needs no humans.
|
|
mooser
Trad climber
seattle
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
|
Man...this is incredibly sad. So very sorry for the pain the parents must be experiencing at this time.
The article is very badly written, so I hope someone, somewhere, gives the kids some decent memorial coverage. So sad.
|
|
Bluelens
climber
Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
|
TheYouTube video posted above is historical from 2014. For anyone else confused.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
|
hey there say, cranster... very sad to hear this... :( so many of us, have had our very good memories, from camping... as well as our kids and grandkids, thus--we wish and hope and pray, that all others, can, as well... this is so very sad...
prayers for the family, at this hard awful, time...
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
/ ne'er–do–well
|
|
|
Aug 14, 2015 - 09:25pm PT
|
From the Guide to the pioneer cemetery ...
MAY TOM
AGED 14
PIUTE
May Tom was the young niece of Ta-bu-ce (Maggie Howard). May was killed by a tree that fell on her while she was camped beside the trail northeast of Yosemite Point with Ta-bu-ce. The tree also hit Ta-bu-ce and broke her leg, which never did heal properly, so that she walked with a slight limp the rest of her life. One of the writers (LVD) attended her funeral, perhaps in 1905. http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/pioneer_cemetery/
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
|
As tragic as this accident is, I'm not surprised.
Large and old oak trees often shed large limbs in the hotter days of summer. Sometimes the limb looks questionable from the ground, often not. It happens often here in the Santa Cruz mtns in hot spells.
It appears to be mostly deciduous oaks such as Black Oak, Blue Oak and Valley Oak.
These oaks have all come through the previous winter, often with heavy wind, rain and sometimes several inches of wet snow, without shedding those same limbs.
It usually happens that there's rot deep in the core of the limb, which is apparent only after they've fallen. It's also partially caused because the growth of leaves, all full of water, has increased their weight, mostly born at the furthest distance (lever arm) from the trunk. On a hot day the water also expands a small amount increasing the stress in the wood.
I've had them come down in my driveway, usually in a warm evening, so far not hitting anyone or any car.
I've cleared all large live oaks from around my house. This year I've got to bring one down that's over my garage/driveway.
I never park under a large live oak. I haven't seen a problem with the live (evergreen) oaks.
There's really not a lot the Park Service can do to prevent it except to take down obviously weak limbs. That doesn't deal with the limbs with invisible interior rot.
I never worry about Douglas Firs unless they've been dead a couple of years or more. They might come down in a winter gale but living ones don't fall or shed limbs without severe provocation. At least I've never seen it. Generally they fall in the winter when the soil around their roots gets very wet and then heavy wind.
My neighbor's got a standing Doug Fir that's been dead about 4 years. I'm pretty certain it won't come down without a strong wind and a lot of rain.
|
|
sierracanon
Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
|
I can attest to the fragility of trees in Yosemite. Last December, while hiking the Smith Peak trail, I had a tree in the Rim fire burn zone fall on me. I managed to get mostly out of the way, but it clipped my right arm and knocked me off my feet. Nothing broken, but pretty scratched and bruised. One of the scariest moments of my life.
|
|
Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 02:55pm PT
|
There have been a few of these instances recently within a few years in the valley campground areas. As an arborist myself, I hope that the budget for tree care in high target areas is increased to protect the general public.
Routine tree maintenance programs that incorporate the evaluation of all the trees on-site in a pruning cycle would be ideal. However that may be costly, and not fall under the "wilderness area" clauses of the NP authorities.
While performing routine maintenance pruning, the tree care personnel are aerially inspecting the canopies searching for defects that could prevent such a tragic incident.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
|
They generally do that to begin with.
But .... there's only thousands of trees .....
|
|
DanaB
climber
CT
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
|
How many trees have humans killed, yes the kids dying is sad, but nature needs no humans.
How convenient. You've proved your own point.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
|
Without humans there would be no Nature period ......
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
|
How would you know?
How DO you know?
Where is your crystal ball, O Magus of the Imponderable, O High Priest of the Ant Tree?
Just kiddin', Hair Ducky. I couldn't care less, frankly.
--Smoked Duck
|
|
dhayan
climber
los angeles, ca
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:24pm PT
|
The duck is just saying that there is no such thing as nature. Without humans there will be no world of human concepts like "nature" or anything else. I think.
|
|
HeldUp
climber
Former YNP VIP Ranger
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
|
Very sad. The same thing occurred in 1985, the summer before I worked there. This recent accident is especially sad as the two boys were members of the SoCal water polo community.
Oak Branch Drops on Yosemite Tram; 2 Killed, 9 Seriously Hurt
September 22, 1985|DEBORAH HASTINGS | Times Staff Writer
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-22/news/mn-18049_1_yosemite-national-park
Two tourists were killed Saturday and nine others seriously injured when a 25-foot oak branch crashed onto an open-air tram at Yosemite National Park.
The tram, carrying about 50 passengers, had just begun what was to be a two-hour tour of Yosemite Valley when an overhanging branch cracked and fell about 15 feet onto it, park officials said.
"This was just a freak accident," said park spokeswoman Mallory Smith. "There's no other way to explain it."
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
|
The duck is just saying that there is no such thing as nature.
Wrong.
And again: "Without humans there would be no Nature period ......"
|
|
Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:30pm PT
|
There are thousands of trees in a park down the street from my house.
|
|
Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
|
Once upon a time...maybe '59 or '60, when I was a buck ranger on midnight to eight duty by myself in Valley HQ, a Mono wind hit just at dawn. A big "schoolmarm" doug fir demolished a cabin at the Lodge. Two older ladies in it. One pinned across the legs, recovered. One across the chest, DOA. Trying to cut them out we couldn't even face into the wind because of the flying needles.
Got 'em over to the hospital and a radio call came in. Tree down across a whole row of employee tent cabins - I think there were 6 to 10 tents smashed, but can't remember. Everyone had gone to work except the DOA who had a day off.
The big conifers were whipping around like prairie grass in a hurricane.
I tried to get the Ahwahnee management to evacuate the cabins but they wouldn't hear of it. Fortunately the wind abated.
Ealrier, I had worked with a tree service for a while. We called valley oaks "mush oaks" because a huge, perfect looking branch sometimes turned out to be mush inside.
That much weight up in the air eventually - and sometimes sadly - is going to come down. Sure sorry for those who were under.
|
|
obm31770
Trad climber
Nashua, NH
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
|
Jeff Constine, nature certainly doesn't need you.
|
|
AE
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2015 - 11:09am PT
|
Areas like the Valley which have had significant proliferation of trees related to the suppression of natural fires for more than 100 years, also are going to see more of these cases, as over-mature trees inevitably will reach a "tipping point" much like loose flakes on climbs. It is mostly a roll of the dice, as campgrounds have fostered the nice, big tree concept which is appealing, but sets up risks the average urban-based tourist isn't considering.
Like grooming ski trails, park agencies must face the responsibility of routine maintenance which goes against the "let nature take its course" view. It may be a desirable approach in most of the park areas, but along heavily traveled trails and especially campgrounds there is the need to face reality and make unnatural adjustments. Otherwise, we can look forward to the mandatory half-hour pre-camping video warning of tree hazards, along with a fire-building video, toe-stubbing advisory, anti-splinter campaign, etc.
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2015 - 11:20am PT
|
i'm sorry for the family.
sorrow is the toughest lesson.
i've been the unsuspecting
target of earthbound trees.
this black oak showed
NO surface signs of compromise.
i was eating my oatmeal
when the bugger impacted the cabin ridge.
it got f*#king rowdy, real fast like.
this was the day that i became a logger.
the x-cable guy-lines in
the walls which i installed
as an afterthought, saved my life
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
|
Without Mr. Natural there wouldn't be sheeit. Speaking naturally, humanly, and preternaturally.
Jes' don' step in in it.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
|
Norwegian
Nice Cabin! I was wondering if you could possibly explain the x cables you speak of in more detail?
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:59pm PT
|
c wilmot
after erecting the post frame, the
height to footprint ratio was
imbalanced, and lacked shear.
so i installed 3/8 cable in
an x-fashion in each of the (4)
walls and then turnbuckled them
tight to
2 kips (i really didn't measure
the tension)
this job is pictured below.
after the cabin took the hit,
i discovered that the ends of
the cable had been pulled approx.
3/4" into the wood.
wood in compression is stout,
so i know that this system
passed some sizable stress.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!