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madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 05:52pm PT

Crankster's determined to have the last word on the email scandal, so I guess what he says must be true....

I guess, him being a lawyer, IT professional, and all.

;-)

He insists it's fake, so it must be fake. Nothing more to see here.

crankster

Trad climber

No. Tahoe

Aug 28, 2015 - 05:56pm PT

mb, with you here doubt I'll have the last word. You keep getting asked to provide proof regarding any of your accusations and all you come up with are theories, allegations.

I'll apologize if any indictment comes her way. And you'll do the same when they don't, right?
Rose Law Firm...wasn't that like 25 years ago? You guys never give up. Whitewater, meh.

John Duffield

Mountain climber

New York

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:07pm PT

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:09pm PT

For an explanation of some of the "Christian" revisionist perspective on reality...

we can trace a lot the Modern Right Wing Corruption of Christianity to this right wing criminal enterprise, in the name of Jebus of course

Meet the Tea Party’s evangelical quack: David Barton is Glenn Beck’s favorite “historian”

David Barton has shaped the curriculum of Christian schools and home schoolers. His "history" is a dangerous joke
Julie Ingersoll

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/23/meet_the_tea_partys_evangelical_quack_david_barton_is_glenn_becks_favorite_historian/

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:09pm PT

Madbolter...http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/President-Barack-Obama-Presidents/2014/08/08/id/587737/

"The Siena College Research Institute has asked 238 presidential scholars to rank the presidents five times since 1982. The most recent poll showed Franklin Roosevelt on top as their favorite.

A report from the National Constitution Center in February of this year also ranked Roosevelt as the best president of the 20th century and fourth best overall behind Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Lincoln."

He is in some pretty good company.

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:13pm PT

Apparently the outcome is this

Liberal President and Congress = prosperity and good times

Conservative/Right Wing President and Congress = many blood baths and economic disaster,
but the rich, Corps, special interests and well connected make out big time

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:13pm PT

FDR...my man.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security-keeps-22-million-americans-out-of-poverty-a-state-by-state-analysis

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:14pm PT

You keep asking for "proof" because you know that's an impossible standard that not even criminal courts require. Then you claim "victory" because I can't rise to such an impossible standard. It's childish, really.

This whole thing is a matter of interpretation, and you know it. You also know (or you should) that criminal courts engage heavily in interpretation. Lawyers rely upon interpreting events and behaviors to show intent and thereby "speculate" about "what really happened."

The two pressing facts in the case, which are indeed objective facts are:

1) She set up an utterly insecure alternative channel of email communication, has never even come close to explaining why, and then refused to comply with legitimate congressional and the FBI requests to examine the server and its contents. The fact that it came out early on that the server was entirely insecure made such requests pressing and transcending merely requesting "the emails." Thus, her "release" of (her unilaterally-decided subset of) emails could not in principle lay the matter to rest as she hoped it would.

2) She refused for months to comply until pressure became overwhelming, at which point she "deleted" the data on the server and then handed it over.

Point (2) is problematical enough. If you or I got wind that the FBI was about to come confiscate one of our computers because we were suspected of having kiddie-porn on it, and we then preemptively "deleted" the entire contents of the machine just before they arrived to take it, that act alone would count as criminal in its own right. We could be charged with obstruction (as a minimum) even if no kiddie-porn conviction could ever emerge from the (then) lack of data.

Point (2) is not over yet, despite your endless insistence that there's nothing to see here. Eventually somebody with a brain and the power to pursue (2) is going to recognize the implications.

And she should already be in court defending her motivations under an accusation of flagrant violation of the FOIA. Again, her pattern of behavior is most obviously interpreted that way.

So, quit claiming "victory" because there is no "proof." That's petty, and you should know that that is not how deals like this work.

The investigation just keeps churning along. This isn't over yet, and your wishful thinking doesn't change the facts. The devil's in the interpretations, and her endless stonewalling, culminating in her turning over a "deleted" server, scream: Obstruction of justice.

So, here's the deal now. I'm done debating this with you. You WILL have the last word, so I'll just say that convictions don't hang on "proof;" they hang on interpretations. Now, go ahead and have your last word that "settles" the matter once and for all (until indictments are finally handed down).

zBrown

Ice climber

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:17pm PT

In 1974 Donald Trump became president of his father’s organization. During the 15 years following his ascension, he expanded and innovated the corporation, buying and branding buildings, golf courses, hotels, casinos, and other recreational facilities. In 1980 he established The Trump Organization to oversee all of his real estate operations.

Trump eventually found himself in serious financial trouble. In 1990, due to excessive leveraging, The Trump Organization revealed that it was $5 billion in debt ($8.8 billion by some estimates), with $1 billion personally guaranteed by Trump himself. The survival of the company was made possible only by a bailout pact agreed upon in August of that same year by some 70 banks, allowing Trump to defer on nearly $1 billion in debt, as well as to take out second and third mortgages on almost all of his properties. If it were not for the collective effort of all banks and parties involved in that 1990 deal, Trump’s business would have gone bankrupt and failed.

...

From the moment of his birth, Trump was set up for success. The large inheritance left to him by his father, coupled with the contributions and the protections of society and the US government made his ascension to the Forbes 400 list almost inevitable. Nevertheless, Trump fails to recognize this phenomenon and continues to express his belief that he did it alone.

http://www.alternet.org/story/156234/exposing_how_donald_trump_really_made_his_fortune%3A_inheritance_from_dad_and_the_government's_protection_mostly_did_the_trick

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:18pm PT

FDR...nailing the republicans 80 years ago.

"They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master."

http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/od2ndst.html

He kicked their asses.

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:19pm PT

Hillary did nothing criminally wrong, and there was no wrong doing
the whole thing is a farce, just another right wing witch hunt to crush her.

Yet, the MD disagrees so much that he would write 1000s of words about How Right He is.

So go on MB, your campaign against Hillary is very enlightening,
it shows how in bed you are with the right wing disinformation "State" Media.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:20pm PT

you'll do the same when they don't, right?

Again, you play with a standard you know isn't legit. Most criminals are not caught, the ones that are often if not usually beat the rap, and none of that means that there was not guilt aplenty!

When OJ beat the rap, should I have apologized for being among the 95% of white America that started out believing he was innocent, then was convinced by the trial that he was guilty, and that I STILL believe he was guilty?

Not a chance. There's already enough public info out there about the Hillabeast's behavior to legitimately interpret it as an intentional violation of the FOIA and as then ongoing obstruction of justice.

None of us could get away with the games she's playing.

So, that's why you shouldn't hold me to an apology. Oh, btw, when Nixon was pardoned, did that mean he was not guilty? Ahhh... the games that are playing in high places! Too rarefied air up there for us to breathe!

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:24pm PT

The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.

http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

zBrown

Ice climber

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:26pm PT

I'm getting confused here, is a "secure" server one which the NSA does or does not record the data from?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:29pm PT

it shows how in bed you are with the right wing disinformation State Media.

Wow....

If you can read me as "in bed with the right wing" ANYTHING, then you seriously can't read with comprehension or are brain damaged. I mean that. Something is VERY wrong with you, and it's no little thing.

I am starting to understand the fervor that will get the Hillabeast the nomination. What's sad about it is that there are SO much better alternatives!

Yeah, it's my "right wing" bedfellows that must be telling me to vote for Bernie if he were to become the Demoncrat candidate over, say, The Jebster or the Trumpster.

Look, while you're blindly accusing EVERYBODY that doesn't bow down and worship at the gnarly feet of the Hillabeast as being "in bed with the right wing," you are in your blindness unable to see that I'm as horrified by the Rebumblecons as the Demoncrats. This election is ALL about the PERSON rather than the party for me.

You insist on putting up the Hillabeast, and you've lost my vote. Same with the Rebumblecons putting up Jeb or Trump.

If YOU puke up the partisan kool aid for a moment and regain a sense of balance, you'd see that I'm the LAST person on this thread you should be accusing of being "in bed with the right wing."

But your blind defense of the Hillabeast at all costs keeps you from having a SHRED of objectivity. Really, seriously, it's sad.

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:33pm PT

I have never endorsed Hillary
I'm just noting the lies you say are so important to use against Hillary

And yes, you come off as a total right winger no matter what you say

Libertarian = Far right winger that hates to call himself a Republican

If you are such a liberal, what of the ideas of Bernie that you love so much?
Higher taxes on the rich?
Free College?
School loans discharged???
Single Payer Health Care Insurance?
Take down the Banks? Too big to fail means too big to exist!
Stronger Federal Background checks for gun purchases?

I am 100% for these policies, Go Bernie

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:38pm PT

Libertarian = Far right winger that hates to call himself a Republican

Just stupid, plain and simple.

Like trying fruitlessly to argue with a Jehovah's Witness, I see my own stupidity in arguing with you.

In fact, the whole thread has gotten stupid. I've got better things to do.

Have fun boys. See ya cometh the election.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:44pm PT

If you are such a liberal, what of the ideas of Bernie that you love so much?
Higher taxes on the rich?
Free College?
School loans discharged???
Take down the Banks? Too big to fail means too big to exist!
Stronger Federal Background checks for gun purchases?

Ahh... another huge edit with no "edit" denotation. Typical.

I'm no liberal either. And, ironically, some of the above ideas are not "liberal."

Since you clearly don't understand either "classical liberalism" or the nothing-like-it current liberalism, and you can't be bothered to educate yourself, you are incapable of really hearing me, so you simply must try to cram me into boxes entirely of your own making in your own fantasy world.

When you were "Dr. F," several times I became convinced of the fruitlessness of arguing with you for this same reason. You "read" your opponent to suit your own sophistry. Again I've come to that conclusion.

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Aug 28, 2015 - 06:44pm PT

So MB gives up when confronted with facts

Yes, you like the classical Fake Right Wing Definition of "Classic Liberalism"
Yes I am aware of it, it's a farce

Yes, and I've been convinced about You just as long of the you have of me.
Very few here agree with you,

You are wrong about almost everything, yet convinced you are So Right about everything, it's like debating Pat Roberts or Dick Cheney, just too far gone to debate at an honest level of facts.

Denial of evolution, and most of the sciences??
That really hurts your argument, since your God seems to rule over us some how.

So none of the policies that Bernie are for (as I noted above) are Liberal??
What would free college for everone be called then?
Higher taxes on the rich??? Not a progressive liberal policy???
I don't get it..

But the insults, are they really necessary, you know you insult me in every post, it's Very childish, and indicative of a lost debate.