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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Aug 11, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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Interesting how Anker goes on and on about how Mugs Stump was almost always quiet about his important climbs:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web15x/wfeature-the-city-and-the-blade-chapter-1
Now we have Meru and the team in the climbing mags, in the Times, in The New Yorker, in film festivals, apparently in a book (see link above), and, as I saw while walking downtown yesterday, on giant cardboard Meru/Anker cutouts in North Face stores.
I have no problem with climbers being sponsored or tooting their own horn, but it's more than a little disconcerting see this repeated emphasis on Stump's asceticism, over and over, as a core part of an obviously planned, coordinated commercial media narrative. A sell. Especially given that there's no way Stump himself can consent or object to someone else's commercialization of his narrative, his dream.
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Aug 11, 2015 - 11:33am PT
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It is a different (climbing) world then when Mugs Stump was here. The Alpinist article was written in 2012 and just recently re-publsihed. I didn't know Stump well enough to comment on what he would think, but here is Conrad's view from the article
The pull of the line (Meru) reminded me of the duality in Mugs' life. He was drawn by Buddhist teachings of non-attachment and their contrast with the competitive spirit of international alpinism. His favorite ascents were done without a trace and kept private. He dreamed of sitting in the dark corner of a bar, listening quietly to others brag about their "first ascents" of the routes he'd climbed. The publicity and controversy of the Moonflower seemed in opposition to this cherished ideal. Even after years of climbing together, Mugs remained mysterious to me. Most of the time, he was happy to share the energy of the rope. Yet he turned fiercely possessive about certain peaks. There was something about Meru he could never let go.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Aug 11, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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Mugs and Conrad chose two distinct paths almost from the start of their partnership. But there is a sad part of the tale. When Mugs and I climbed Hallucinogen in the winter of 1992, Mugs was quite upset with Conrad, almost to the point of obsessiveness. Sometimes I felt my role on that climb was to help restore Mug's faith in his partners--we did have a great time, and discussed many more cold vertical adventures together, which sadly never came to pass due to Mugs' untimely death while guiding in Alaska a few months after our Black Canyon climb. Mugs was a great teacher and mentor, and I think for him the quality of the climbing partnership was the highest reward from climbing, and secondary to whatever kudos could be gained from first ascent feathers of mighty peaks. The Shark's fin was indeed his ultimate dream.
The schism between Mugs and Conrad arose from Mugs' feelings that he had mentored the young Conrad, and in the process shared many of his dreams and planned first ascents. Mugs felt betrayed when Conrad apparently solicited another partner and climbed one of the routes Mugs had shared with him, without letting Mugs know of his plans. Mugs was quite bitter about it, but it wasn't so much that an envisioned first ascent of his had gotten climbed, because new routes in the Ruth Glacier were plentiful, but rather that there was a lost experience--a lost opportunity--the hard-earned foundation of trust between partners was precious and not to be squandered by personal ambition.
I felt sad for Conrad after Mugs' passing, because no one wants to have unsaid and unresolved issues after a friend's death, but Conrad kind of went into cathartic overdrive after that, taking charge of Mugs' effects, distributing Mugs' climbing gear to his friends, for example.
Conrad's emphasis on Mugs' vision of the Shark's Fin is his writing, video promotions, etc. might be Conrad's way of making amends, and seems entirely appropriate and a homage to an old friend. It is true that it would be hard to imagine Mugs going to trade shows to promote a successful climb, but then again, 2015 is quite a different climbing world to that of 1992.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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Killer video.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Aug 11, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
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Wonderful and deeply personal perspective, duece/JM. Thank you for making the effort to share it.
I suppose another way to look at this is (as you suggest) that the first ascensionists are telling the Mugs stories to give him credit and honor for his vision of climbing the fin. I'm sure they've thought about this and have thought about what he would have wanted.
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Aug 11, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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thanks deuce4
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Aug 12, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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While we're at it, some photos of the Shark's Fin originator.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Aug 12, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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Awesome. Bump.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 12, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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Awesome!
Thanks for the history Deucey!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 12, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
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Front page bump.
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
New England
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Aug 13, 2015 - 06:16am PT
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Thanks, Deucy. In any case, it looks like a terrific film.
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Conrad
climber
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Aug 13, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
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Thanks for taking a look at the link. Seeing as I’m part of the topic of discussion please allow me a chance to share my view.
Spiny – cut outs are nothing new. Mugs had one for his Stubai / Lowa boot deal back in the late 80s. Mugs and Andi Orgler were there in two dimensional relief. Even the venerable Ed Viestuers has been made into a cut out. It’s sports marketing and it is my work.
Mugs imagined the hidden secret climb as the apex of some sort of self-control. The closest he came to this were the two solo climbs on Gardner and Tyree in Antarctica. Climbed on sight solo, with no gear, they would have been the ideal he so often dreamed about. Yet, as most of us, ego came about and he reported the climbs. The ascent caused a furor with in the National Science Foundation and created a bit a tension with his brother Ed, the geologist for whom Mugs was working for. Yes – Mugs dreamed of this ideal but he did not live it. Playing football at Penn State gave Mugs a taste for the spotlight, something he crafted into his own persona as an alpine climber.
John – as to your “sad part of tale”. The climb you refer to was the East Ridge of Mt Johnson in the Ruth Gorge. The climbers that Mugs was worked up about were Seth Shaw and Robert Ingle, two climbers from Salt Lake City. They attempted the route, as several other parties had before them, to turn around when Seth fell and cracked his ankle. I was not part of the climb. Mugs wrote a harsh letter to Seth and refused to speak to him after the climb.
Having lived with Mugs for several years I understood how particular he was about routes that he had his eye on. His sense of ethic coupled with a stern and intimidating personality were a force to be reckoned with. His tension towards Steve Petro as he was working on freeing Moonlight Buttress was not a good thing. His competiveness towards Scott Backes when Scott was on Meru was uncomfortable. The first climb we did in the Kichatnas, Gurney Peak, was a based on a picture Mugs shared with me. I am still, to this day, most grateful for this vote of confidence. Having seen first hand this side of Mugs I had no intention of getting on the wrong side of the track. Check the Denali National Park journal for ’91. I did not climb there. He might have been pissed at me, but it was not for poaching a (his) route.
The irony of this is Seth was killed in a crevasse collapse on the 25th of May 2000 at the base of Mt Johnson after climbing the Elevator Shaft. Mugs died on the 21st of May 1992 while guiding the South Buttress of Denali.
After his death a memorial was held in Brighton, Utah. At the time I was 29 and mortality had a far heavier hand than it does now. His family traveled out for the service and attended to his effects. John Barstow ended up with the photos, another friend with his library and rack went out to the family and friends in attendance. I was one of many and it didn’t seem to be “cathartic overdrive”.
Owning routes is something that I do not adhere to, particularly in the great ranges. More than one person can see the same line and once one summits or bails, it is my view that the peak is fair game. After we nearly made the summit of Meru on 2008 I shared my topo and advice with Silvo Karo, who tried the following season. There was no secrecy. We wanted Silvo and his buddies to succeed. Being non-possessive of routes suites me better. We don’t own the mountains and being supportive of other teams helps elevate the spirit and sport of alpinism.
The film Meru is a result of Jimmy and Renan being creative types and quality of modern camera equipment. Adventurers have always shared stories of their adventures, be it Homer and the Odyssey, Lewis & Clark, the pioneering Everest expeditions or the Apollo 11 missions. (We are far less worthy - just an example.) The screen you’re looking at it a manifestation of this shared experience. That being the case, Mugs was tied to the Meru story and is one of the several themes with in the story. The goal was to share Mugs vision and how that had affected my view and how I interact with Renan and Jimmy, both younger climbers.
In early May we screened the film at the Pixar Studios in Emeryville, CA. In the audience was Nelson Max, one of Mugs clients on the South Buttress in 1992. Nelson teaches computer science at UC Davis and was on sabbatical at Pixar to integrate with the next generation computer science engineers. I had no idea he was in the audience and afterwards he introduced himself. Having never met him it was a humbling moment. He still had the weight of not rescuing Mugs. A meaningful connection to Mugs.
Disclosure: I have been working with The North Face since 1983. The company backed the 2008 and 2011 expeditions. Spiny – sorry if the film is “a sell” to you. Mugs to Alex, two central characters in my life, are part of the film. This is honest expose of my life. I have nothing to prove and nothing to loose. It is with gratitude to Jimmy, Renan, Chai, Jon, Bob and the film team for bringing this to an audience outside of climbing. For my family, Jenni, Max, Sam and Isaac, thank you for trusting me with your lives and supporting me in the frivolous pursuit of alpine climbing.
On the 28th of August, two weeks from now, Mugs would have celebrated his 66th birthday. "Your lead man."
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Aug 13, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
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Fantastic history. Respect. No-one-should-miss-this-bump.
As I said above, my only qualms were with how Mugs's story fits into the rest. JM/Deuce's post largely removed my qualms and CA's remarkable post annihilates them. I am excited to see the movie.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 13, 2015 - 02:20pm PT
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Conrad-
Thanks for your perspective.
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Aug 13, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
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bump
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Aug 15, 2015 - 02:31am PT
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thanks for the thoughtful posts Spiny, COT, deuce4 and Conrad...
just about missed the meat of this thread as even though i opened it and clicked on the link, i initially assumed that would be all there was... glad i checked again.
what a great sleeper thread.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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Aug 15, 2015 - 04:29am PT
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I watched the Meru film in NYC last night and it was great to be transported to a beautiful, wild place. The movie did justice to the route and the efforts of the climbers.
There was a QA session with the director Elizabeth Chai Vasarhelyi, Jimmy Chin, and John Krakauer after the showing.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Aug 16, 2015 - 02:00am PT
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My recollections of Mugs are quite different. We got snowed in at Telluride for a week just before we had our Black Canyon adventure together--and skied every day in the backcountry. I can't ever recall any sort of sternness or 'intimidation' in his personality ever--or even a hint of it; quite the opposite in fact, he was one of the the most peaceful, supportive, and least competitive people I've ever had the opportunity to adventure with.
One of the hardest parts of the winter climb in the Black Canyon was getting all the gear to the rim--miles and miles of snow. He was super cool when we got our overloaded snowmobile stuck in a deep drift--it took us several hours of digging to get it out, but Mugs never hinted at any sort of frustration during the whole epic.
I recall losing one of our few precious water bottles while filling up in the rapids at the bottom of the Black Canyon. A little slip of my fingers and it was gone in an instant, I expected a bit of wrath from my partner, but he was totally cool, reassuring me that all would be well, even with limited water (I think only 2 gallons!) on the wall. And he never mentioned it agin, even though we had to ration.
On the route, he was super steady. I really enjoyed climbing with him; next to Werner, he was the most Zen partner I've ever had the opportunity to climb with.
(EDIT: a few grumpy paragraphs deleted about kettle black competition and spotlights. No need to dig old wounds, but i leave the above in support of Mugs' memory)
P.S. More on Mugs here: http://www.thecleanestline.com/2009/02/the-dream-a-journey-of-the-spirit-with-mugs-stump.html
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Aug 16, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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I saw Meru in Seattle Friday night. While I might be biased, I thought it was the best "big production film" about what it takes to climb a remote Himalayan Peak. I was worried the new edit would have leave out or change the technical aspect of climbing Meru. IMO they did an excellent job telling the story from both a climbing and human perspective.
Jon Krakauer's monologues are used to talk about the history of big mountain expeditions and the style of the climbing which leaves Chin, Anchor and Ozturk free to be themselves. I have seen the other two releases of the Meru climb and was pleasantly surprised to see lots of new unreleased footage.
It was interesting to be in an audience with many non climbers, as the other releases of Meru were featured in the Real Rock Tour. It was funny to hear the people gasp when the camera panned from the summit showing the exposure, which compared to all dangerous sections of the climb was pretty safe looking spot IMO.
The movie is 90 minutes long and there is time to let the mood of the scenes in the portaledge and other tense scene play out which helps bring the audience in. They also did an excellent job of showing the dangers of climbing without going into a lot of technical descriptions that would have bored the audience.
On scene in particular has Chin starting the A4 pich. He takes his hammer out and taps several giant flakes around him that he is going to have climb up. Even for people that have not climbed or aid climbed before the"bonging" sound of the loose flakes perfectly illustrated the dangerous situation.
Overall the editing was excellent, weaving in the back history of the three climbers, Ozturk injury, Mugs Stump's and Alex Lowe's influence. The trailer for the film seemed to have a lot of "death talk" and while it is there in the film it seems much more balanced and realistic.
I would highly recommended Meru, it is a fascinating, emotional story about friendship, sacrifice, loss and triumph. For me, Meru is about the passion of living life and not just watching it go by.
Like I said I am biased in that I have known Jimmy for over 15 years and had many crazy adventures with him. I feel he, his wife and everyone else involved did and amazing job with Meru
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overwatch
climber
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Aug 16, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
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Incredibly classy and well written posts. This is what super topo is all about for me. thank you to all you living legends.
Edit:
And of course the shoulders of the past that you all stood on
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 21, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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saw the film, mainly liked it.
my ears perked up when Krakauer said (paraphrase) that Meru-Sharksfin was the Himalayan objective that had seen the most attempts without yielding a first ascent. is that true? would've guessed Latok N Ridge.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 21, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
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I'd love to see the film-hopefully soon.
And, too I appreciate the shared background from the folks contributing on this thread-wow.
A bit OT but...
I still think back with very fond memories to our friendly chat and beers shared here in Delhi after the boys finally summited Meru. Conrad had to stick around Delhi as I recall for some reason. I was a nobody, but a quick email sent off to Conrad over in the dorms at the Indian Mountaineering Federation a few blocks away had Conrad visiting me at our home.
We sat around and just bullshitted the afternoon away. It was pretty cool.
The following year Max stopped by, staying with us for a few days prior to some work in Nepal he was going to do for NatGeo, and a fine young man he is too.
Oh, and Conrad...I still have a few goo's left and that lighter from the climb. The gift that keeps on giving:-)
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Aug 21, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
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Just saw this tonight. It was such a good film and I'm so glad that film technology advances have allowed the filming of such a project. Beautiful quality, inspiring story, amazing images and really great music to back it all up.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Aug 21, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
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Saw the film tonight in San Francisco, in a packed house at the Sundance Kabuki theater. Having watched it previously, 2x, from the sound booth @ Telluride Mountainfilm, it was good to finally get the full viewing experience... from a seat in the audience.
I went with a bunch of non-climbing friends, and enjoyed sitting near them. So different from the heavily confirmation-biased type of audience that might be found at Banff, Telluride Mountainfilm, Reel Rock, etc. My friends were rapt and bright eyed and attentive, which perhaps speaks to the more universally excellent storyline. They weren't bogged down with having read decades of Climbing, R&I, or Alpinist; they hadn't known that one guy's former climbing partner who also died, or the other one's ex; they weren't mired in gossip or a decade's old personality cult.
And I'm just amazed and impressed at its legitimate theatrical release. And a review on NPS's Fresh Air today. Bravo boys, cheers to your success.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:06am PT
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Sarah and I saw it in the theater last night and thought it extremely well done in storytelling as well as editing. The computer graphics were put to excellent use as well. A pretty full house of non-climbers of all ages who seemed to grasp both the personal as well as climbing aspects of the film. This was particularly impressive given the lack of technical explanations and focus on the narrative. Well done all.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:18am PT
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Thanks, all. Quite a tapestry.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:28am PT
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So what were Mugs' most well known climbs apart from the Moonflower and Mooses' Tooth? Up here the Emperor Face on Robson is a legendary example of badassness
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 22, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Mugs also did a very fast solo of the Cassin and was active in Antarctica
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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COT, you nailed it.
I saw it last night.
The views of the shark fin through the night from a great distance as the stars rotated above the peak, with two tiny lights on the face as the climbers move up the snow at night, were especially impressive to me.
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hamersorethumb
Trad climber
Menlo Park, CA
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Saw it last night. two thumbs up, five stars. A great climbing movie.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 13, 2015 - 05:24pm PT
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I don't usually watch climbing porn, but a few friends gave great reviews and I got out to see it between work and leaving for a climbing trip. WELL DONE MOVIE in multiple ways! Much better than the little flick featured in reel rock. Loved it. Makes me want to get out and do some climbing in India. Seems like the face left of the Shark's fin is bad ass too. And Shivling. And the stuff across from there looks great from the photos...
And love Conrad's post in this thread too.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Sep 13, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
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Some great posts on this thread, really cool reading, makes up for several thousand content free posts by the usual suspects :-) But seriously, great stuff, can't wait to see the full length film! Congrats to all involved with the production, hard work all the way around! Cheers.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Sep 13, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
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Bump for proper climbing content!
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Sep 14, 2015 - 11:25am PT
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Great thread. Look forward to seeing this movie.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 29, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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Would rather have this on the front page than 20 gear reviews...BUMP
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 29, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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We don’t own the mountains and being supportive of other teams helps elevate the spirit and sport of alpinism.
Beautiful, thanks.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Sep 29, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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Just a great thread, some real history.
Thanks to all for sharing stories, and a real treat to get Conrad's perspectives.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but tomorrow it's on the schedule
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