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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 31, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
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Hello! I am a 60 year old grandma who has returned to climbing after a 42 year hiatus (former 70s Curry Company worker turned Camp 4 Dirtbag). With my two year old double hip replacements, I am able to hike considerable distances, peak bag, and climb both inside and out without pain. Yay for modern medicine! So far, I am doing well on 5.9s and working towards 5.10s. However, I am limited in pulling off extreme foot reaches and high leg lifting. Because I need to use footholds that are closer and lower my feet go off the 5.10 line. In going off-route this way, does this indicate I did not climb a 5.10, particularly in the gym? Thank you in advance for your kind commentary and suggestions.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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does this indicate I did not climb a 5.10, particularly in the gym?
Yes.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
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Thanks for your brevity! I figured as much.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jul 31, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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Your efforts are admirable. However, I wonder if you really enjoy pressing toward 5.10s or are somehow driven to do so. At your age you might consider doing what provides pure enjoyment, and if that means pushing into 5.10s go for it. Forget the details . . . those are for youth.
;>)
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
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To expand a bit, going "off route" in that way only matters in a gym. Outdoors anything within reach is fair game and is included in the grade.
Also, Pacific Edge?
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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The numbers game has been imprinted on my brain since I was a punk 18 year old. It's still compelling to me.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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Right-o, Ben Lomond local, Pacific Edge indeed. The only 5.10 I can pull off is on the slab. Stands to reason, I loved the routes on the Apron.
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Stephen McCabe
Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 01:22pm PT
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There's a climber about your age with double hip replacements who climbs at Pacific Edge. She seems to be ok with 5.8s and the occasional 5.9, but has techniques for getting around some high steps. Shoot me a personal message if you want her contact info.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
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Locker and Jogill, thank you for the straight talk. Tough love on the Taco! I cherish my youthful climbing days and I will find contentment with what I can do now, which ain't at all bad.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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Stephen, thanks for this heads-up! Or, hips-up. Sent you a PM.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
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Locker, you are spot on. But, boy-howdy, would this Granny love to send a crazy-ass 5.13 just to freak the community. A crone can dream.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
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You and my wife sound like kindred spirits. She likes that delicate tippy-toe junk, too.*
How long have you been back at PE? We'll probably run into each other, if we haven't already. I'm the jackass who keeps bringing his baby with him.
*Disdain to protect my man-card: I don't think I can admit I like slab and keep it, at least around here.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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granny-ellanor?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 31, 2015 - 02:19pm PT
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view her pasts posts and all should be clear.
good for you!
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
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Oh, goodness, no. I am not the infamous "Elena"!
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 02:55pm PT
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looks easy from here - Our community baby! I watched Rosie hold your little one for a long time and almost said, "MY TURN!" I recall you and your wife, but, as you now know from new parenthood, it's no longer about the adults. The Baby is the star. Great to see you! Here I am with Fabulous Instructor Melinda Reece on the occasion of completing her Women's Climbing Course, Class of April 2015
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
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Cosmiccragsman, sir, I am sorry for your injuries but impressed you're having big fun! Point well taken about having fun, which I am, majorly so.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
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With my two year old double hip replacements, I am able to hike considerable distances, peak bag, and climb both inside and out without pain.
two years seems relatively short given the major surgery... and the fact that you haven't climbed in 42 years would also seem to indicate that you're doing well to be at 5.9 and working on 5.10.
One thing I've learned with age (I'm 61) is that doing a little bit a lot of times actually works in the long run. The trick is to like something enough to keep at it... we all find adaptations for our strengths and weaknesses, and even train a bit to get better.
We'd be happy to hear reports of your climbing trips and your experience adapting... for the most part, we love climbing and everything it entails.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Jul 31, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
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(former 70s Curry Company worker turned Camp 4 Dirtbag)
I thought it worked the other way around.
Anyway, good going, sounds like you're doing great!
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 31, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
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Yep, he's definitely the rockstar and I'm definitely the roadie. Next time you see us, come over and say hi. We're generous with our baby (as Rosie and Devon and Scott and Sage and Marshall and whoever else can attest).
Back on the subject of you, on the slab have you tried avoiding off-route holds and just smeared straight on the wall? It's certainly grippier than some glacial polish I've been on, and doing that keeps the grades honest. And how do you do with stemming? I could see pressure like that being rough on your hips, but if it's okay Oceanview Corner (to the climber's left of The Chimney) often has routes where highsteps can be avoided by mentally tricky but physically secure acrobatics, again often taking advantage of standing or pressing directly on the wall.
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PaulC
Social climber
Traffic Jam Ledge
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Jul 31, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
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Enjoy the movement and the follow the protocols from the PT and surgeon. High flexion with internal rotation is probably a big no-no (a dislocation risk for me). Can I ask what is your flexion? Post surgery (March 17 surgery; not bilateral), I'm so lucky to be at 122 degrees (beats the 65 degrees prior to surgery; normal is around 135). Without decent flexion, those high steps which are trivial for many are impossible.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 31, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
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Granny, you're doin' (and lookin') great.
I agree with the fun part up to a point. As a septuagenarian climber with just about as much climbing experience as your age, I can tell you that everyone declines at their own rate. At the right tail of the bell curve we have Donini, climbing better in his seventies than many of us ever climbed. At the left tail of the bell curve are those who had to give up long ago because of various injuries and/or conditions. In between are a spectrum of people who have learned, first, to cope and second, to enjoy coping with what their bodies will allow. Coping with what is---that's the essence of trad climbing anyway. The assumption behind grades that all bodies are identical was never accurate anyway.
On the other hand, there is no reason not to want to get better, especially for someone like yourself who has returned after a long absence and so might be able to regain forgotten techniques and learn new ones.
But here's the deal: you ain't gonna be able to do those high-steps with your current bionic components. You'll have to smear to make the moves, and this is often not very productive with uniform and not especially high-friction gym surfaces. So, to turn the technique mantra on its head, you are going to need stronger hands and arms so that you can pull through the smear to the next foothold. Working on some upper-body strength is the way to utilize your legs when they won't stretch from one stupid hold to the next in the gym.
If manage to do this, you should understand that whatever the non-bionic gym grade, the moves you are making are harder than that. Try to enjoy this in private, as your not-yet surgically altered companions may not be receptive to celebrating your 5.11 prowess.
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lisae
climber
Santa, Cruz, CA
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Granny, I am the person Stephen mentioned.
I've had both hips replaced, one in 2008 and one several years ago. I am climbing almost as well has I was pre-surgeries. I was a 5.8/5.9 climber and now I am more of 5.8 climber who can climb some 5.9s. As I've had other medical stuff to deal with, I am pretty happy to be able to climb as well as I can.
Like you, my biggest problem is high steps. I can get my foot up high on holds off to one side, but a route involves a high step that is close in to my body I often find that very difficult. Strategies for dealing with high steps:
1) try to avoid them. I think I switch feet a lot more than most people do. An example - the last 5.8 on the super slab had two ways to go after the first move. You could put your left foot on the starting hand hold or you could switch feet, bring your right foot up and then pull up on a side pull. At that point your left foot could go on the opening hold. My way had more moves, but it was easier for me. Most 5.8s can be done several ways, 5.9s not so much and 5.10s are even more specific. At least in the gym.
2) Pick up your foot and put in on a hold. I fell in love with Doug Robinson when I saw him doing that. Seriously. I stopped feeling like doing so was bad technique at that point.
3) In corners or the trough, you can sometimes get a body scum that can help you get your foot up higher. I sometimes use my body as a lever - lean away fro the hold I am trying to put my foot on. Easy enough if you have a good hold to pull on, but if you don't a body scum can help your balance so you can use no so good holds.
4) Smear.
5) Sometimes changing my foot position on a hold will open up my hip and allow me to get my other foot up higher.
What other people have said about working on your upper body strength is true, but I think you also need to work on your leg strength and balance. It is sometimes hard for me to step up when I have my foot on a higher hold. I had/have trouble initiating the motion. I notice it less these days. Lots of squats, lots of working on leg strength. And balance is important.
I think I recognize you from your picture, so will introduce myself the next time I see you at the gym.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Pick up your foot and put in on a hold. I fell in love with Doug Robinson when I saw him doing that.
Wow, when I think of all the things I tried over the years to get women to at least develop a flicker of interest in me---fuggettabout fallin' in love---and now it turns out all I had to do was...was...er...is there something that will work if you can't reach your foot?
I guess I never knew what the real pickup line was.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Have you considered joining the BSJR [baller sexta/septuagenarian joint-replaced] Climbing Club?
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Cheers from another climber with two artificial hips (although I still have two and a half years to go before I reach 60)!
does this indicate I did not climb a 5.10, particularly in the gym?
To some extent this depends on the mechanics of the THRs you received and how they were installed (I assume you have THRs). For example, you have a greatly reduced chance of dislocation if the ball size is at least 36mm. I have a THR (delta ceramic on ceramic with a 40mm ball) on one side and a HR (52 mm ball) on the other and for all practical purposes they are functionally the same with respect to climbing. I will never be very flexible, but I doubt most people who see me climbing (and don't know me) even realize I have artificial hips.
I have also learned that the way the rest of my body is positioned can often make the difference in how high (or far how out) I can get my feet. Subtle changes in position (leaning to the side, bending the other knee, getting up on a tip toe, straighting out an arm, etc.) or even jumping my body up a bit, can help when it comes to getting my foot on a hard to reach hold. Also, yoga and balance exercises have helped me. However, if you have a small ball (28mm) on your implant you should probably be more careful about dislocation and ignore everything I'm saying (or talk to your doctor or someone who knows more than me).
At any rate, the important thing is to enjoy your new leaf. Who cares if you can't climb 5.10 in a gym, as long as you're having fun!
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lisae
climber
Santa, Cruz, CA
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Yanqui, I talked with my surgeon about the dangers of dislocating. He said it would be very, very difficult for me to dislocate either of my hips. He was more worried about my injuring my hips in a fall, which could lead to a major injury/surgery. That and he doesn't recommend high impact activities. No jogging.
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philo
climber
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Wow this is a great thread to see and read. Big big kudos to you GraceD. Lots of sound advice here especially the "have fun" part. Get better by feeling better on what you climb not by how big a number you climbed. Fluid flawless movement is more critical than difficulty. You need to focus on you and the long term. Because I assume you'd like to still be active in ten plus years.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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He was more worried about my injuring my hips in a fall, which could lead to a major injury/surgery.
I was pretty paranoid about this for about a year after my THR. Now I try to take it in stride. It's part of the risk, I know, but 4 years ago I wondered if I'd ever climb again and now I'm climbing as well as I have in a decade, so I want to take this as far as it will go. I suppose I can always play guitar and do mathematics if something goes wrong!
PS: De Smet (my doctor) doesn't really have a problem with me jogging (which is not the same as hard-core running) but I mostly walk and hike instead because it seems easier on the hips.
Cheers lisae
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perswig
climber
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Now I try to take it in stride
Nicely done.
Dale
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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We should form a little clique at PG. Little did I know there was such a potential for a quaint kick ass group of women. Plus I'd love the beta on hip replacement. I do think I might be facing that one in the near (prefer distant) future.
Lets rendezvous some time !
Susan
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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If numbers are still compelling to you save them for real climbing on real stone....outdoors. Gym numbers should be considered akin to setting the level on a stair master.....an indication of the level of exercise you want to do.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
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Cheers, salud, blessings to all and to my dollin locals of County Cruz! Just checking in briefly as grandmotherly duties call. Your advice and encouragement, most especially the consensus on ignoring the ratings. have been absorbed into my skeleton, the real parts and the fake. I did send a 5.10 on the slab, PacEdge People! looks easy from here - tried to smear the slab using minimal holds. That alone felt like a 5.10.
Ed H: "doing a little bit a lot of times" - yes, that is an excellent rule of thumb and have unwittingly employed this ancient wisdom. As far as getting back to 5.9s, it was like riding a bike, you never forget, but boy-howdy, the tech has changed. A lot. My middle name was Grace "Body Belay" Davis. Thank you for your remarks.
Joey F: former 70s Curry Company worker turned Camp 4 Dirtbag I arrived in the Valley summer of 73 to work at the Lodge. I lived in a tent community ominously named The Ozone. I felt quite strongly that climbers should have access to our showers thus became friends with my smelly Camp Four people. Then, as what happened with many female Curry employees, I met a climber and three months later I was on El Cap. Hat tip to you, sir!
Paul C: Fine Y Ddraig Goch for your avatar. Flexion is at 100 degrees at the top end. Right up to the night prior and after the THRs, I was full on with my yoga practice. Thus, recovery was quick and muscles and tendons were well maintained at a pre hip problem state. Yours is a good question. Are you my orthopedic surgeon? If you live in the dramatic landscape that is Wales, please give a respectful nod to the great Drummond climb on Gogarth, "A Dream of White Horses".
Locker: We have the fountain of youth flowing out of the taps here in the Cruz. Hence, we're all adult-punks. Thank you for your generous compliment.
rgold: Ah, sage one, you have gracefully accepted aging and its limitations along with aging's many powers. I've read your post several times. Thank you for this therapeutic moment.
Cosmiccragsman: YOU ARE MY PAGAN GOD! The really cool God with three limbs. Very holy, the unusually limbed deity.
Lisa: Gratitude to you for taking the time to advise me with these superb details. I will be in the Eastern Sierras this week messing around on some peaks and trails, but the week after, I will be stalking you. I too am in love with Doug Robinson, but it's an unrequited passion.
rgold: I am sure your dyno moves have set many a ladies hearts a-flutter.
thebravecowboy: Gah, these fine climbers "Ammon'd"? I saw that video of Ammon's Ammon'd. Pure gore which I actually don't mind. I salute my sister climbers and yes, I will start a BSJR topic on the Taco, once the grandkiddos stop yanking on my hem, wanting me to get off the "peruter".
Marlow: Yeah, baby, Jerry Lee Lewis! Rock that rock! To be honest, Nirvana's "All Apologies" plays in my head with almost every dang climb. "All in all is all we are/All in all is all we are/All in all is all we are"
Grandkids are winning, Granny has lost. I will return!
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PaulC
Social climber
Traffic Jam Ledge
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Grace,
You have generated many supporters. :-D
My flexion question came up since I just wrapped up my final PT appointment on Friday (the terms flexion, extension, abduction, adduction, rotation dominate my vocab). Currently, I am sorting gear for a flight to D.C. & some climbing at Seneca Rocks.
Keep at it!
-Paul
P.S. My Welsh avatar is somewhat misleading (WV born w Welsh ancestors & have enjoyed trips to Llanberis and surrounding areas).
P.P.S. My request to keep my femoral head for a chew toy for my dog was rejected. However, the surgical team took some awesome photos.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I know a top woman climber, now in her mid fifties, who had both hips resurfaced several years ago. She is now running and climbing at a high level without experiencing pain or significant problems with mobility. She is going on a trip to Asia this Fall to attempt an unclimbed, technical 6000 meter peak.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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I think I know who you mean JD. Another alien species such as yourself.
I was going to chat with her, assuming it's the lovely lady from Castle Valley, about her experience....with the hips that is.
Susan
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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You got it....I'm sure she would be a good person to talk to....her experience turned out positive.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
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Locker? We are FINE specimens for our age. 1955 was the year of awesome.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Locker, FYI, I think you got too much of that 'wrinkle cream' in your eyes as they appear glued shut.
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lisae
climber
Santa, Cruz, CA
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SC Seagoat, really, really do your home work before deciding on a procedure. Hip re-surfacing have only been approved by the FDA in this country since 2006. Not that FDA approvals mean that much, but still most American ortho's haven't done many of them. And while preserving bone stock and more range of motion is very attractive, I believe the fact that the are metal on metal mean there is more chance for a build up of metal ions in the blood. I've read that the best candidates for resurfacing are younger men or women with good bone stock.
With my first hip replacement , I wasn't a candidate for re-surfacing because I had AVN. The ball of my femur was pretty crumbly. By my second hip replacement, I didn't care any more. I just wanted to be able to walk without it hurting.
Good luck!
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Basically, since the BHR has been taken off the market for smaller sizes, if a normal sized woman wants a HR done in the US, I believe Dr. Thomas Gross (uses the Biomet "off label") is one of the few experienced surgeons left. Otherwise it's off to Europe (e.g. Dr. Koen De Smet) for the Conserve Plus (which has been taken off the US market but is still available in Europe). There are very few surgeons in the world doing HR for (normal sized) women at this time but the few remaining experienced ones have done many thousands of surgeries with very good results. Medical torurism is the only option for a woman to go the HR route, so if that's what you want, try to pick the best surgeon in the world without worrying about where you have to go.
Big companies worried about law suits mixed with the poor results of many inexperienced surgeons jumping on the HR bandwagon has made the possibilty of HR for women very limited.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Hip replacement/resurfacing seems common with climbers who have put the petal to the metal.....and usually when still fairly young. Rolo Garibotti, John Sherman, Greg Childs, Kitty Calhoun, Kim Ciszmazia, Greg Crouch and Ralph Tingey come to mind. The results have all been positive although recovery times have varied considerably.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Grace--i had a hip at 45 and another at 53..I was doing decent until i decided to add a knee last year..and then the heart thing...
But out and about now, scrambling at 13,500' so that's getting there
cheers
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Pretty damn inspiring Grace. Thanks for posting this up!
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Bad Climber
climber
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Keep shredding, Grace. Hope to see you out on the crags some day.
Months after pulling a rib, I'm finally working out again and primed to get back on the stone. Kaint. Phreakin'. Wait!
BAd
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lisae
climber
Santa, Cruz, CA
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Grace, if Chris Sharma showed up at the PE (which he used to do) he would offer to belay you. He offered to belay me once and I was so flustered I didn't accept. That was about the time I quit thinking of him as a kid. He is the same age as my son; they tied for first place in their first climbing competition. My son doesn't climb anymore, doesn't care, so that is my claim to fame.
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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Well, fine SuperTaco friends, I've been having a ball climbing outside in Tuolumne. Have also been at the gym and lisae provided a wealth of recommendations as to how to approach an indoor route in the manner the route setter intended. Once again, I need to adjust my sequences as much as I can considering the limitations of my hips. Though lisa kindly suggested I stick to 5.8, I am far more comfortable on 5.9s in the gym.
For those of you with bad hips and an accompanying sense of impending doom that you might not ever climb again, I'd like to share with you that I'm doing fine, 8 months post-surgery. I romped up a 5.8 crack with bonus 5.9 face section on a DAFF dome route last weekend. Excellent Yosemite Mountaineering Guide Mark Grundon at the belay as I ascend to the perfect blue sky.
Your support, cheering, recommendations have meant the world to me. Thank you, friends.
xo GraceD
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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GraceD
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
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Ahhhh, thank you sycorax! The Yosemite school is perfect for someone returning to the endeavor and as is worth the price for a day of crack climbing, equipment (I should, though, really buy a helmet) and the company of jolly companions.
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lisae
climber
Santa, Cruz, CA
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Aug 18, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
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Um. Grace, I didn't exactly say you should stick to 5.8 in the gym. What I said is find a level at which you can stay on route and concentrate on footwork for a while. Footwork will get you up a route when your strength fails you, in my experience. Anyway this is the article I mentioned about footwork:
http://www.climbing.com/skill/training-7-simple-drills-to-improve-footwork-and-technique/
I did my own variation of the first two drills after my each of my hip replacements and they helped me a lot.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Aug 18, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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Send that rig
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