The flag, one of many Confederate battle banners, was mostly a historical artifact until the 1950s and 1960s, when the governments of many southern states took it up as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement and desegregation.

During the first half of the 20th century, the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem. The USS Columbia flew a Confederate Navy Ensign as a battle flag throughout combat in the South Pacific in World War II. This was done in honor of Columbia, the ship's namesake and the capital city of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union. Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate general Simon Buckner, Sr.), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle".

Yes its been hijacked by hate groups that have zero to do with the Civil war. If Issis were to hijack the rainbow flag, would you all condemn it as well? Muchado about very frickin little...

muchado about very frickin little

Of course, the men in the group reacted just like I'd imagine the "flag supporters" on this forum would in the same situation - tails between the legs.

my daughter and husband are not laughing at the ignorance...

I've always been puzzled by this reverence for the Confederacy.

They seceded from the Union in order to try and preserve a barbaric and unsustainable way of life.

They were led by generals like Lee and Jackson who were so deluded that they thought that God was on there side as they blindly persisted against all odds.

Now I don't believe in any God but I wonder what kind of God they had in mind.

And they lost....but only after the needless deaths of 620,000 soldiers, approximently the same number as in All of the other wars in American history combined.

You don't see the Nazi Swastika being honored, but on a relative scale....the damage was nearly equivalent.

And the South continues to lag behind in nearly all measures of what constitutes a healthy modern society.

The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.

Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.

Among whites, there's a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.

So you can't equate it to the Nazi flag when a great majority of the people flying it are doing so for Southern Pride, not racism.

Timid TopRope:

Having empathy in this case means, yes, I can see some Southerners do not equate that flag with racism but MILLIONS of good Americans have family members terrorized by the Klan and UNDERSTAND that there is another meaning to that symbol.

Why not respect the Millions that find it hurtful and intimidating and stand with those who say a museum is the proper place for that symbol?

The flag is displayed as a sign of modern day reverence.

That's much different than preserving historical sites as places of learning and a connection to the past.

TT's words are the only thing of value in this hate filled thread.

So the flag can fly at Lee's compound right?

To me, that story says volumes.

If it was to honor some kind of modern, vague notion about a fictional southern heritage, or a modern tribute to the confederate, white supremacist cause, then I think that would be entirely different.

. I dunno, but I assure you, that flag flying most certainly does not depict anything "modern" to the majority of southerners.

I could take you to parts of the South where you would swear it was 60 years ago...

The bigotry still exists...

To deny it is ridiculous...

I am not about to name names...

But just on this forum alone, I personally know at least a few that use the "N" word on a pretty regular basis...



EDITED:

I live in California now and hear the "N" word spoken VERY often...

Sketch, your 2/10 troll posts are almost as boring as I’m sure you are in person. The only thing worse than someone that speaks much and says little, is someone who is oblivious to the fact that it’s them.

Give it a rest. We are not impressed.

It’s clear you have zero idea what you’re talking about, yet you seem strangely convinced of your positions. As I’ve mentioned before, my wife’s friend and her white husband live in Texas with their little girl. They have been menaced with a gun on the freeway by white racists, and have been addressed in a restaurant by white people regarding their “disgusting” mixed daughter. No, times are not the same as they were in the 1960s, but they are definitely way worse than you’d like to convey with your cavalier posts.


You are either creating this persona online to try and get a reaction, or genuinely have no experience with such situations, and thus are ill equipped to sincerely comment on such issues.

Don’t try and distract from the actual topics with your false-comparisons and such.

1. Today to the majority of Americans (and the VAST majority with IQ over 100), the Confederate Flag is a symbol of institutional racism, as well as the defense of it through a terrible war. To deny this removes you from the running of eligible debaters.

2. If our sweet southern brethren want to display the flag on a personal level, they should have the right to do so. Just like they have the right to display the Nazi symbol, etc. It’s their right, and I think they should have it. I prefer it, actually, because I know exactly what kind of a “person” I’m dealing with based on the flag they choose to honor. Put it on your t-shirt, your bumper sticker, etc. Again, I’d rather overt racism than covert – so much easier to engage that way.

3. The Confederate Flag should not be flown over any public offices, or on our government-provided license plates, etc. Again, museums and such things would be fine places to house such an artifact. There are many such symbols are barbaric and moronic eras from ancient times in museums, kept nice and neat for us to hopefully remember and learn from.

Then you personally have no doubt been witness to quite a bit of bigotry...

I wish like hell I could say the same thing...

My favorite line that so many use to PROVE that they are not bigots...


"Even some white people are Ni--ers"...

Well, are you the internet tough guy.

Thanks for the laugh.

LOL. No, thank you. Your ignorance apparently spans several fronts. Just so you can use that term appropriately next time, here you go:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Internet_tough_guy


I’m not sure how confronting and shutting down a group of people in person translates to internet tough guy…but you also think this flag doesn’t symbolize racism, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised? Low IQ for the win! ;)

The north's war had less to do with ending slavery, and more to do with ensuring their economic dependence on the south did not come to an end.

people seem to forget that the north was largely dependent on the south's cotton. An independent south was a threat to their mills in the north. Their is a reason black peoples lives did not improve for so long after the war. The north's war had less to do with ending slavery, and more to do with ensuring their economic dependence on the south did not come to an end.

There were many factors for the civil war- slavery was not a very big one

There were many factors for the civil war- slavery was not a very big one.

While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."

The Civil War Trust is the largest and most effective nonprofit organization devoted to the preservation of America’s hallowed battlegrounds.

As some Southern officials have called for removing Confederate battle flags in the wake of last month’s mass shooting at a black church in South Carolina, Wild Bill’s Old West Trading Co. in Elk Grove has done the opposite.

The gun shop on June 25 raised the Confederate flag on a small flagpole above its store entrance in what was described as a collective decision by store employees. Though Wild Bill’s has since moved its controversial display inside and flown the American flag out front, more than 20 protesters and supporters gathered Friday in front of the store on East Stockton Boulevard.

Protesters objected to the timing of the flag display and said it was not relevant to California. They accused the store of trying to incite people by flying the Confederate flag soon after the South Carolina incident.

Another thought. If you don't understand, even just a little, why some are offended by that battle flag you
... are utterly stupid or purposely obtuse.

More than 20 students at a southwestern Virginia high school were suspended Thursday after wearing clothing bearing the Confederate flag in protest of school policy.