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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oh no! He's so young, isn't he? I thought he was like my age!
Tim certainly has been very generous in his projects for others lately; something I noticed since the hurricane Katrina, though probably he was always this way.
I'll toss him in the "prayer pot" along with John and the several others I've got. Hope it turns out to be extremely minor with no lasting repercussions.
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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very sorry to hear that
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scuffy b
climber
The town that Nature forgot to hate
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Best of luck, Tim. Stick around and play with us. We appreciate
your efforts.
sm
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Good luck and thanks, to him. I saw somewhere that he posted about it.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Wow, bummer! Hopefully just some harmless TIAs and nothing more.
Good luck to you man. +++Positive vibes+++
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SammyLee
Trad climber
Memphis
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I just spoke to Tim. He is in the emergency room awaiting admissions and a room. He is going to be admitted for futher tests and evaluations. He is doing sort of ok. Much of the numbness on his left side is gone, yet some remains on the left side of his face and head. He is going to call me back when he gets a room number. He did not sound good, but that is of course no surprise.
Edit - I'm on the phone with Tim right now. He is in room 320 at NEA Medical Center in Jonesboro. If anyone want to call he said that'd be ok. His cell is 870-627-0594. They are going to do an MRI and coroid (sp) test tomorrow. He is on Plavix now.
I visited with him yesterday shortly after he returned from the ER. He was pretty much in demarol haze so I really did not get an idea of how he was doing but it's clear that something is wrong.
Tim wanted me to let you guys know that he will be unable to make the trip to So. Ill to do the raffle and that he will be away from his computer so any updates to the Bachar site will not be made until he gets out of the hospital. Again, no surprise.
I asked him if I could do anything for him or Kathy and he said to bring him a pizza. He hasn't eaten since breakfast and is starved. I hope that's a good sign. (I would sneak a pizza to him but he is about a hundred miles away) Otherwise, he said no.
Keep him in your prayers if that's your thing, in your thoughts and well wishes if that's more your style. It's been kinda rough for the ol boy lately.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 10, 2006 - 12:15am PT
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Tim, you've been through a lot the past few years, your heart is huge, and your faith unwavering. I trust you'll see this through as well. Love to you and Kathy.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Oct 10, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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Tim = tgreene, right?
Best wishes. If my granddad can get through a TIA at 91, dudeman should have this stuff licked in no time.
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lucid
Social climber
Madison, WI
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Oct 10, 2006 - 01:37am PT
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here's hoping ya get well man, thanks for all the advice amongst the noise at RC.com.
RC.com finding new ways to hurt people (posted earlier today)
"Hahaha! A classic rc.com thread: noob asks for advice which he probably wouldn't follow anyway; numbnut responses advocating quicklinks; the one guy who gives constructive advice gets the "holier than thou" label.
Tgreene -- if I were you, I'd throw in the towel. Trying to help this guy is just going to make your migraine worse! Rolling Eyes
JL"
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 08:50am PT
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Cathy brought my laptop to me this morning, so I wouldn't completely lose my mind at the hospital... Im sniping a weak wireless signal from across the street!
I've had 3 CT-Scans and undergo an MRI and some type of Carotid Ultrasound this morning, before seeing a Nuero Brain specialist.
I actually had a TIA while in the CT, but it didn't catch it or show anything.
Currently, I'm pretty much in a constant state of numbness and with a "displaced" feeling...
-Tim
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
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Oct 10, 2006 - 09:04am PT
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Tim,
Just last week we talked for an hour about the miracles given us by our Lord. I'm sending my prayers, asking for another miracle to be given you.
May God's light shine down upon you, and show you the way. Best wishes for a complete recovery.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 10, 2006 - 10:25am PT
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Tim,
Just got back from the Creek and heard the terrible news. Man, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Let me know if there's anything I can do. Remember, the angels are on our side.
Mal
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 10, 2006 - 10:36am PT
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Tim - Sorry to hear about this. At least you're in the right place if something more happens. I hope they can figure this out for you soon. Godspeed with your recovery - my thoughts are with you bro.
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Oct 10, 2006 - 11:54am PT
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All the best for a full and speedy recover!
Mike
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
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I had a really shitty lan connection earlier, so my nurse talked the IP guys into "hooking me up" on the down low.... ;-)
I've had the MRI and Arterial Sonogram this morning, but still have to undergo an EEG... I've yet to see a doctor today, and honestly have no idea how long I'll be here.
I'm still having waves of numbness sweeping my body , and as always, it's much more profound on thee left side.. The left side of my face feels like I've been shot up with Lidocaine, and also like it's very puffy and swollen and sliding down, but it's still there... just as ugly as it was before.
At least I have a solid web connection now.
-Tim
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Oct 10, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
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Tim, my thoughts are with you. Get well dude. You should be outa there in no time enjoying the good weather in Arkansas this time of year.
Gary
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 02:46pm PT
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They still can't figure it out, and have actually just mentioned the possibility of MS...
This is getting scarier and more f*#ked up by the minute!
-Tim
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 03:37pm PT
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Hang tough bro.
I know you're locked and cocked, and I got your 6.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
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Oct 10, 2006 - 04:00pm PT
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Pray, my brother, for the Lord loves you...
Be not afraid.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oct 10, 2006 - 04:18pm PT
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"Not knowing" is understandably very scary, Tim. It's always the most difficult part when life is giving us something unexpected. Don't let the fear overwhelm you - Try to stay in the present, thinking of all the good that is in your life right now.
When you start to get the scared feelings, and getting "what if?" scenarios playing in your head - turn them off life they're a bad radio show! I know it is hard, but those thoughts aren't real and they aren't helpful to you; they suck the energy you do have away, leaving you tired and with less resources to deal with what is on your plate(which is a loving, caring wife, plenty of friends, lots of desperate n00bs at rc.com(hahaha) and a host of things personal to you).
I hope my post doesn't come off as flippant - believe me, I DO understand the sensations of overwhelming fear. I just have found that there actually are psychic/physical/emotional exercises we can employ to "treat" that mofo. Know that there are plenty of people keeping you in their minds right now, and you aren't alone. When you get scared, imagine the people who are typing posts to your thread here, surrounding you and taking care of you emotionally.
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Misha
Trad climber
Woodside, CA
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Oct 10, 2006 - 04:41pm PT
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Hey Tim,
My thoughts are with you. I wish you a speedy and full recovery.
Misha
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 04:56pm PT
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My chiropractor brought me sushi, and then hung out for awhile... That made me feel better. :-)
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Oct 10, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
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Tim,
Our thoughts and prayers are with you! Stay strong, stay connected and know you have lots of friends and support here, even from us folks who don't know you "in person"!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 05:13pm PT
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I didn't know that Nature was also a chiropracter.
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:10pm PT
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Is it too soon to begin begging somebody to get me up a big wall next year..?
If it matters; I only drink thick black coffee, can twist w/ 1 hand, and I like my beer like my coffee!
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:12pm PT
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Tim -- very sorry to hear this news. Please post up again when you know more. The uncertainty must be difficult -- I'd be going nuts. Please don't hesitate to reach out and shake a few trees if there's anything we can do for you. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Ed
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:12pm PT
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I'll take ya Tim but WTF is thick black beer?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:20pm PT
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We're with ya bro!
Just like climbing, let the fear flow through you, not in you, and make the best of it somehow.
Thanks for the updates, it's keeps us there with you.
Peace
Karl
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:25pm PT
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Thick Black Beer:
Big Sky "Moose Drool"
Abita "Turbo Dog"
Guinness "Brilliant"
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:30pm PT
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The staff here is getting kinda pissed that I refuse to eat anything other than cookies or food brought in...
Seriously, this sh#t isn't fit for a starving dirtbag!
It's also looking like I'll have to stay another day, which sucks ass.
BTW: I'm getting a ton of emails from you guys which is awesome, but understand that I can't port out from this router in order to reply... So my email is incoming only.
Now, boobiesies would cheer me up, so git to postin!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:31pm PT
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All for you man.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:32pm PT
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Your are really going to some extreme measures just to see some boobies...
:)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:33pm PT
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Come to think of it, watching somebody drink moose drool could be pretty entertaining depending on where you are watching FROM.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:34pm PT
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Here's a thread from another board that might cheer you up. Come to think of it, you might enjoy the board, too.
http://www.arizonashooting.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6516
Ed
 Looks like that thread is in a forum that requires registration. Sorry. Email me for a "guest" account to get you logged in.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 10, 2006 - 06:37pm PT
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Good luck, Tim! And thanks for all your work on the JB benefit.
Get well soon, so that you can demonstrate the "can twist w/ 1 hand" you refer to. The elephant in the closet - everyone is wondering what that's all about.
Anders
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:15pm PT
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Anatasia, be careful about asking for a photo of Tim. There is one out there in the rockclimbing world. Posting it cost him two months at rc.com though! It's, um, *unusual*.
:)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:22pm PT
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I found this via google, on rockclimbing.com. Tim Greene, from Arkansas. Is it our boy?
It doesn't seem particularly "unusual", though.
Anders
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:24pm PT
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That's the man.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:29pm PT
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What does that suppressor fit onto?
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:39pm PT
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{{ Anatasia, be careful about asking for a photo of Tim. There is one out there in the rockclimbing world. Posting it cost him two months at rc.com though! It's, um, *unusual*.
}}
I'll show mine, if you'll show yours! ;-)
-Tim
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:52pm PT
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Get well soon Tim ! You need to be out there twisting and climbing again !
Tom
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 10, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
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No way Jose!!!!
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Calif.
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Oct 10, 2006 - 08:00pm PT
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Hang tough , Tim.
Good thoughts comming your way.
Tony
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 10, 2006 - 08:15pm PT
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I was wondering why all of the techy gun-talk slowed down…
Hope things go well for you, Tim! Take care!
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 10, 2006 - 08:36pm PT
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Okay, I'm home...
They are "thinking" that it's some bizarre type of little know and highly unusual Migraine that emulates mini-strokes, yet generally is pain free.
I have received some awesome info regarding this from Bachar today, as we've talked several times.
The bottom line is that that aren't willing to make a firm diagnosis yet, but will treat as if it is such. They tell me there is no harm if they are wrong.
-Tim
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
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Oct 10, 2006 - 08:46pm PT
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Great news Tim. Time to let that stress go.
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Standing Strong
Mountain climber
1st star to the right & straight on 'til morning
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Oct 10, 2006 - 09:18pm PT
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Glad to hear you are home. Sorry to hear of your troubles. Good luck with everything.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 10, 2006 - 09:57pm PT
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Huh? WTF is this kind of stroke?
A migraine stroke in your head that makes you numb and stuff?
Hey Tim, whatever it is I hope it goes away forever for you.
And, that was a very nice thing you did for John Bachar helping him with his financial health situation.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 10, 2006 - 10:10pm PT
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Glad to hear they sent you home. I've had brief, transitory migraine episodes (that recur every few years)that respond well to Excedrin migraine. But you probably have more of that sort advice than you can deal with.
Keep on living well.
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 11, 2006 - 07:47am PT
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They put me on 'Zonegram'.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
hither and yon
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Oct 11, 2006 - 09:44am PT
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Best wishes Tim. Maybe I'll run into you in Newton County next time I'm home.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Oct 11, 2006 - 11:31am PT
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Tim, Back when I was a young strapping whippersnapper, about 30, I woke up with half my face in paralysis. My lips sagged, I drooled (even more than normal) and I could not close my eye on that side. The Docs said I had Bells Palsy. I think it was from a stressful job dealing wih as#@&%es. At any rate, my Doc was pretty smart. He said that while not clinically proven some people had reported getting better on a strong steroid. Within 2 days of taking that I was improving. I think it helped tremendously and I also think that some Docs would not have prescribed it. Anyway, I hope you are able to do some research on your condition and I hope you get better soon. Dont accept less from the docs and keep your chin up.
I hope it was not the stress of climbing with Aliens that did this to you (sorry that was a bad inside joke, I know).
Take Care,
G
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Oct 11, 2006 - 01:52pm PT
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Hi Tim,
Glad to hear you've got a diagnosis...I was going to ask you if they tested you (however they do that) for Bells Palsy - someone posted about it above. Also, to rule out any blood clotting (stroke) issues I hope they ran tests on how your blood clots (or not) to be sure you don't need to be on blood thinners (if in fact they're not positive about the Aural Migrane diag.). You're not diabetic, are you? I'm not a doctor but ask because my Dad is a type 1 diabetic and had a bad stroke about 9 years ago (of course he was in his 60's at the time) but I've learned a lot about these medical conditions!
Get well quick!
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 11, 2006 - 02:07pm PT
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Oddly enough, they never did a Chlosterol test, but last time it was tested it was low anyway...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 11, 2006 - 02:44pm PT
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Hey Timmy
Glad things are looking up. I thought we'd have to raffle off your personal rack for awhile there.
You may look back at not losing your mind as a lost opportunity, but for now, Enjoy!
Best wishes and bad humor
Karl
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 11, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
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Hey Tim, ask your wife Cathy if the Ebay sale of all your climbing gear is still on.
Thanks.
Your friend.
Crimpergirl.
:)
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Oct 16, 2006 - 07:09pm PT
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bump
How's Tim?
burp
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jstan
climber
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Oct 16, 2006 - 07:37pm PT
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Tim:
I had Bell's Palsy when about 12 years old. Back then the only treatment was electroshocks to keep the muscles from atrophying. That way when an alternate nerve connection established itself to replace the nerve in the middle ear that had died, there would be something there.
Then at the age of 35 I had Meniere's disease( no noticeable hearing loss) that ruined my balance for 2-3 years. I could be walking down a street which would start pitching like the deck of a ship in a hurricane. Eventually I ceased getting full attacks and only had periods where I was exhausted for no apparent reason. Even now, 33 years later, I still get periods where I am tired for some reason. Based on the recovery I had here's hoping you have something equally minor, or better yet something much less serious. For both things I had, the body was able to compensate or reconnect.
My best,
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 16, 2006 - 08:06pm PT
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Several people on here have mentioned they have had Bell's Palsey. Seems like a high percentage of such a small group. I also had Bell's Palsy, when I was 18. I was going to school, such as it was, at a tiny place called Tahoe Paradise College, that had just been established in an old motel in South Lake Tahoe. The school folded after three years, ending my academic career. but that's another story. Anyway, the left side of my face went completely numb, I was drooling out of the left side of my mouth like a labrador retriever, and I couldn't close the eye. The doc had nothing of substance to offer, except eye-drops and a patch, so, not too happy with the idea of attending school in this condition, I hitched down to Yosemite and spent a couple weeks hanging out in the snow in Camp 4 (it was February or March). I got a few climbs in with the few climbers who weren't completely wierded out by my appearance. Things gradually improved, and after about a month my face was pretty much back to normal, but to this day the left side of my mouth is a bit lower than the right side, and I have little ticks and twinges on the left side, too. I've been looking into a possible connection with MS, which appeared more than three decades later in my life.
Tim, I hope you're continuing to improve. These neurological problems are tricky.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 16, 2006 - 08:24pm PT
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My mom had Bells Palsey when she was about 45, it went away after a few weeks (2 months?) but changed the 'drape' of her face, though you wouldn't think of it (Jello, would) if you met her. She, however (83, now) is always outing people on Tv, ("I'll bet he had Bells!") and I've gotten an idea what she looks for. No family history of MS or anything neurological, otherwise, though she did have a pituitary (goiter) opp prior, and has been on supplemental, iodine? or whatever you need when you remove your pituitary gland , ever since.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 16, 2006 - 08:44pm PT
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You know I look at people too wondering if they have had Bell's Palsy. Matt Damon for one. Does not seem to have held him back. If you don't get physical therapy and are paralyzed for too long I think you end up with just skin over bone on one side of the face. But then like leg muscles after a broken leg, maybe they can come back. If they did not, you could get roles in monster movies. I missed my calling.
Cheers,
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 17, 2006 - 09:40pm PT
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Hmmm.
SammyLee called him on his cell phone.
Anybody ever actually call him at the hospital?
What is his room number?
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 17, 2006 - 11:44pm PT
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Tim,
Best wishes to you, man. I'm in your corner.
My brother had Bells Palsy. It took a couple of years but he had a complete recovery.
See ya,
Zander
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 18, 2006 - 06:48am PT
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http://www.neamedicalcenter.com/patientinfo.htm#wha
FOR YOUR SAFETY
One of our prime concerns if the safety of our patients, visitors, and employees. You can help us to ensure safety be observing the following regulations.
• Leave all medications at home. Your physician and pharmacy will tend to your medication needs during your hospital stay.
• Please do not bring electrical appliances to the hospital. Any electric equipment you bring such as an electric razor, curling iron, etc., must be checked in by the Engineering Department prior to use in the hospital. A nurse on your unit will contact Engineering to provide this service to you.
• Please call a nurse and ask for help. This can help prevent an accidental fall.
• Please do not attempt getting in or out of a wheelchair without assistance.
• Use of cellular phones is prohibited in the hospital due to interference with sensitive equipment.
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immanti
climber
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Oct 18, 2006 - 04:14pm PT
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Hey Tim, I'm sorry to hear about this, hope you're doing well. We're all pulling for you and hope you get better very soon. Let us know if we can help in any way.
Dario
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Oct 18, 2006 - 04:49pm PT
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Jaybro, a goiter grows on your thyroid gland in your neck, not your pituitary which is in the middle of your brain. And she takes 'synthroid' which is T4 to make up for the loss. The loss of the thyroid is relatively minor compared to the loss of your pituitary which actually drives all the other parts of your endocrine system to make the chemicals that your body needs.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 18, 2006 - 05:08pm PT
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Correcto, I said pit when i meant thyroid. My bad.
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TGreene
Trad climber
Jonesboro, Arkansas
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Oct 18, 2006 - 07:31pm PT
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John has written the following letter, and asked me to post it on all of our behalf...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone! I felt I needed to say something at this juncture because I've been so overwhelmed by all your responses to helping me out after the tragic accident that took our good friend Steve Karafa and left me with a little broken neck. I haven't been too talkative lately since this whole thing still seems like a bad dream, but I want you all to know I am extremely grateful and moved by all your assistance and well wishes during the last couple of months. I don't know how to ever repay all your kindness but I will certainly try my hardest.
As you may know, I want to set up a Steve Karafa Memorial Fund with any extra money that has been collected and to use it in his honor to help out other climbers who find themselves in severe trouble. Unfortunately, the need for this help has happened all too rapidly. Our friend Tim Greene called me from the hospital the other day and asked for financial assistance from the very fund he had been organizing to help me out. I of course told him to use whatever funds he needed as his situation was and still is extremely dangerous. I know any of us would have done the same thing under the circumstances and I know Steve Karafa would too. I know these funds were meant by you to go to help me, but I’m asking everyone to understand why I gave some to help Tim Greene out. I myself will be OK, I hope that Tim will be OK as well but he still needs the help of neurological specialists and is having a very difficult time finding any.
Anyway, I want to say thanks again for all your support and generosity – I’ll never be able to repay it but hopefully we can start an enduring means to benefit unfortunate climbers through the Steve Karafa Memorial Fund. Hopefully I’ll see you at the crags soon!
Cheers, John Bachar
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Since I'm not sure what the future holds for me in regards to climbing at this point, due to the neurological mess I'm dealing with, I will be going through my gear in order to itemize and sell most of it in order to replenish the fund for the next person(s) in need.
-Tim
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Oct 18, 2006 - 08:07pm PT
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Are you freakin serious? I have given money to this cause and spoken up on your behalf to ask others to do the same, and now it turns out some of this is going back to you?! Tim, I don't know what to say, but this looks very bad and extremely shady. I'm not calling you a liar, but you're setting yourself up for some SERIOUS scrutiny if you do this.
Keep this legit and hold a separate fund raiser.
Ed
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 18, 2006 - 08:37pm PT
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up-
Why don't you look at this as an opportunity to help out two friends at the same time. There is quite obviously nothing shady going on here. Just a couple of unfortunate circumstances for a couple of good people. I, for one, would not wish to deprive John of this opportunity to offer help to a fellow climber (human being). Please don't turn this sequence of events into something negative.
With all respect,
Jeff Lowe
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Oct 18, 2006 - 08:41pm PT
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Is there currently any kind of organization or fund or non profit or....anything that helps folks in need financially for life threatening things (illness, accident) that is geared towards climbing or outdoor sports in general?
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Oct 18, 2006 - 09:13pm PT
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I dont feel Tim did all this work for John with the intention to benefit himself ,however its a cruel world we
live in and Tim and his family are now is in a desperate situation.
With Johns blessing to help out Tim I feel the right thing for me to do is to match my previous donation to help out both in need.
It touches me to see someone in a situation where they have to sell
there gear to pay bills , taking away from themselves the
light at the end of the tunnel for them to climb again when they need goals the most to get through their situation.
Our thoughts are with both of you and your family's
http://bachar.gr-outdoors.net
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2006 - 09:25pm PT
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Easy Kate, I don't see anything wrong/shady going on here. Tim helped out John, now he needs help. Good luck Tim.
Robert
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 18, 2006 - 10:04pm PT
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I talked to John today and he was totally psyched that he could forward some of the money that had been donated to his fund to help Tim out. Once it became clear to him that his insurance would cover him pretty well. John, Anastasia, Lisa Karafa and others began talking about setting up the Steve Karafa Fund to be there to help out other climbers who face staggering medical bills.
That Tim Greene, who went to all the effort to organize the raffle was the next guy in line to have some serious medical problems, was also the first recipient of a grant from the Steve Karafa Fund, can ony be considered a closing of the karmic circle.
We all wish we had had more time to set up the fund officially before hand, but we didn't. This has been yet another great example of the climbing community rallying to help itself.
Thanks to all,
Mal
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Oct 18, 2006 - 10:13pm PT
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Nice. John, thanks from all of us. It sucks that Tim and you are both going thru bad times but maybe with everyone's help you will both come out of this well. And Ana, thanks for helping.
Jan McCollum
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 18, 2006 - 11:09pm PT
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I am not a doctor. I do have two brothers who are.
What about MS or multiple sclerosis would be confused with aural migraines?
I know there are some medical types on here. LEB, others?
Something about this just does not seem right. The ethics of asking for contributions for one thing, and using the proceeds for something else aside...
I am getting the same feeling I had about that Marine in Colorado.
Is it just me? I am hearing music. I think it is Elvis.
"We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out..."
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 18, 2006 - 11:19pm PT
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TIG-
No one has suggested any connection between aural migraines and MS. As an aside on this thread, Golson and jstan mentioned that they had had Bell's Palsy, the only connection being that it, too, is a neurological disorder. Then in response to their postings, I mentioned that I also had had BP a long time ago, and I'm currently looking into any possible connection with MS, which I have developed more recently. So no connection or link between MS and Tim's problem has been alleged.
I think you might be looking through the wrong end of the binoculars, in this case.
-Jeff Lowe
EDIT: Just looked again at the earlier postings, TIG, and in fact Tim did say at one point the docs were considering MS. Doesn't change my message, though, MS is not ruled out in a lot of neurological symptomology, until another diagnosis is confirmed. I know this from experience.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 18, 2006 - 11:36pm PT
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Thus we can conclude from our understanding of this thread that the body is the source of all misery .......
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 18, 2006 - 11:36pm PT
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Could be wrong end of binoculars. hope so, sort of.
But you could just look at the TGreene posts like I did.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 19, 2006 - 12:04am PT
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Werner-
Body the source of all misery? I guess maybe. But wasn't it a source of great joy when you were at the peak of physical magic? Flowing like an ascending thinking segment of liquid crystal brook up Astroman?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2006 - 12:44am PT
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No no Jeff
Only your soul can enjoy. The car does not enjoy, only the driver. If the car (vehicle/body) becomes defective, the driver, due to false identification of thinking it is the car becomes unhappy/miserable.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 19, 2006 - 12:49am PT
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I think it is important for climbers to be a community. It is important that we help each other out in times of need. Climbing is more than a sport, it is a way of life. That is the difference between being just a bunch of typical sports enthusiast and being something more powerful and significant... "We are climbers."
I say let's put differences aside and do what is right.
Example, just think that the rope is the symbol of climbing, it links us together. We belay each other. We rescue each other in times of need. It doesn't matter who the rope belongs to, it's there for all of us.
I hope many of you feel the same. I hate to be the only one walking around with this belief.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 19, 2006 - 01:00am PT
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But Werner, my body HAS become defective. I'm still happy, and I guess it's my soul that enjoys the memories of what it was like when the body worked (earthly) miracles on behalf of the driver. In any case, I know what you mean. In my clumsy analogy, the soul is the "liquid crystal brook".
Cheers,
-Jeff
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 19, 2006 - 01:09am PT
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Anastasia- I'm with you completely.
-Jeff
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2006 - 01:18am PT
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"It doesn't matter who the rope belongs to, it's there for all of us."
I like that, just as a tree does not object to whom stands under it for relief. It accepts anyone.
This whole story and incident with John and Tim is a strange twist of fate.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 19, 2006 - 08:51am PT
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"A tree does not object to who stands under it for relief"
Huh?
How do YOU know. Werner, maybe you ARE an ent. What's it gonna do about it anyway? Piss back? LOL
Jeez
I think I'm gonna be sick. Start the fundraiser.
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Oct 19, 2006 - 09:09am PT
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Being one without any insurance, we can only rely on our own good judgment and friends to take care of us.
"Flowing like an ascending thinking segment of liquid crystal brook up Astroman?"
damno Jeff, good stuff!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oct 19, 2006 - 02:02pm PT
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This is an uncomfortable turn of events and I think it puts everyone involved on the spot. I know that John and others close to this situation have expressed beliefs that the gesture is made in good will and with best intentions, but I think there is too much silence from the general population who donated funds to the original cause to assume that the majority are in agreement that this is totally kosher.
I think people just don't know what to say, or feel crappy about the feelings that are coming up when confronted with this. I think they are afraid to step forward and say how they feel, but maybe I am wrong. I would like nothing more than to have posts coming in to tell me so.
As for myself - I wish John to have continueing recovery, resuming a life far beyond where his wildest dreams have taken him so far. And I wish Tim the best of luck in pursuing health as well; that this will be a short term problem for him.
But I cannot be true to myself in staying quiet, even in the face of such criticism as I may receieve.
I think a better tact might be taken to provide a separation of the current fund and donations for Tim's medical issue. This could be done simply by stating "For Tim" in the "Note" section that is included in the payment on the JB Fund site. I would be happy to donate a small amount to his cause if this were the case, and will do so this evening if there is some discussion that this might be a way to go. But I just feel it is not right to have solicited a campaign and then requested to draw personally from it. Believe me, I have been in dire straits myself; have had to sell personal effects to support my financial imbalances, have had to endure extreme discomfort in the face of being unable to finance emergencies that have arisen, have done without medical care due to my own lack of insurance. I am not a person speaking from a position of comfort.
I understand that the discussion was made that a fund for climber's emergency expenses be established, and that Tim's emergency comes with unfortunate time, but it is my feeling that starting that fund in this current condition is not a healthy thing for the fund's future.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 19, 2006 - 02:16pm PT
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Got to agree with Happi.
I wish John a full recovery, and same for Tim. I still plan on taking him up a wall.
But I would not be the forthright person I am if I did not mention a whiff of impropriety.
EDIT; I have no problem with funds going to help Tim, but I do think that things could have been done a bit more openly. I'm concerned with this putting a damper on future appeals.
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roslyn
Trad climber
washington
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Oct 19, 2006 - 02:34pm PT
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It is an akward situation, especially since tim posted a statment from Bachar and did not address this situation himself.
good post happie
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Moof
Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Oct 19, 2006 - 02:48pm PT
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I kicked in a little for JB. If JB gives it a thumbs up, then I'm 100% OK with it going to TG. If another fund is setup for TG, or for Generic Climber X, I'll chip in again. It ranks up there with the other two climbing charities I've donated to (not including friends, who are a cause in themselves).
I think the whole thing is a reminder we should all do our best to keep our health coverage up during good and bad times. Bare bones coverage ain't that expensive.
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Raoul
climber
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Oct 19, 2006 - 06:01pm PT
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TG's always in a desperate way. i wouldn't trust the phucker as far as I could throw his sorry white ass. john writes a letter and can't post it himself?
I smell bullshit and some creative word-smithing.
How to catch a thief should be the title of this thread.
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Oct 19, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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Howdy!
Any word on what date the drawing may be tentatively rescheduled to? As a goal?
burp
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 19, 2006 - 07:37pm PT
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When I talked to Tim yesterday he confirmed that the drawing would be this Saturday. I'll confirm tomorrow and post.
Mal
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bob d'antonio
climber
boulder, co
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Oct 19, 2006 - 07:44pm PT
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I donated several guidebooks and guide service in Northern New Mexico.
The winner can choose three different (mountain biking, climbing and hiking) guidebooks from the fourteen that are available.
The winner can google my name to get to the books and choose the ones that they want. E-mail me and I will send them out.
Hope this all works out for everyone.
Later, Bob
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kin
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 19, 2006 - 09:23pm PT
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Tim,
While I don't know you personally, I've been touched by your positive energy and demonstrated generosity. Your call to action in the wake of John, Steve and Anastasia's accident is exemplary and I am grateful to you for your efforts to not only help John during his time of need, but also to show the climbing community an uplifting and positive response to a tragic event.
I think it's wonderful that the JB Recovery Fund and the Steve Karafa, Jr. Memorial funds are able to help you after all the incredible things you've done for them and the climbing community.
All best wishes to you for a complete recovery,
Kin
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 19, 2006 - 11:19pm PT
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Rawdrool seems like a pleasant enough chap. I sure hope he never finds himself in a similar situation and needs cash/help.
Really folks, Tim needs a hand. He certainly went out of his way to Help John & company out. Now he needs a hand, John's OK with it. I don't see any problem here. We are a small community, it not like some ENRON scandal for godsake, relax.
I know that when my wife was sick and we were financialy screwed, people from the local climbing community did all sorts of things to help us out. Giving us money, food, work, etc. I sure know how much we appreciated it.
Robert
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Oct 19, 2006 - 11:25pm PT
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Happie, good post
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Oct 19, 2006 - 11:53pm PT
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I have read through this thread several times to try and formulate my own opinion. I do tend to agee with Happie. The timing and cicumstances here tend to make this look a little suspect. However I truely tried to weigh both sides.
Tim, It takes a truely good person to do what you have done to date for JB. Your dedication and persistance no doubt has brought the attention that this deserves.
However it takes an even bigger person to say that although you appreciate the kindness of others that under the circumstances it is best that the funds do go to John and that although many people have said that you are welcome to their share you respectivly delcline. The money donated to date and in the future should go to the respected funds either that be JB. or Steve K. If people who are in charge of those funds decide to distribute monies to other cases such as Climbers in need then that should go through the proper course of action. That being the money is donated on behalf of the person that the fund is designated for and then a formal announcement that certian amounts have been awarded to those in need.
Tim, I trust you will do the right thing and hope that this does not turn into an ugly affair.
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arnoilgner
climber
la vergne, TN
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Oct 20, 2006 - 06:26am PT
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I'd like to begin by saying that I DO NOT agree with what has happened here. Here's why.
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First, was I wrong to assume that John Bachar didn't have insurance? Why was this fund raiser started in the first place? Now we find out John had insurance all along. Didn't Tim check this out before rallying the industry? Sure, there is a percentage (like the deductable and other expenses) that medical insurance doesn't cover. But, usually folks have some funds to cover such costs. Or, Tim could have found out what the actual need was by checking with John's insurance company.
Second, I like to choose the folks and organizations I donate to. For example, I donate to organizations that help the homeless, organizations that help access issues (AF), friends and family in need, etc. I do not like "giving" forced on me. John Bachar is on my list of folks to help; Tim Greene is not. Sorry Tim. Helping the homeless is on my list; creating a fund to help climbers who don't have medical insurance is not. As cold as this may seem, realize, we all have to draw the line somewhere. I draw the line, in this case, between Bachar and Greene; between the homeless and a "lack of medical insurance climbing public." There are plenty of folks in my circle of friends, family, organizations that fight for issues I feel are important that need my support.
This whole situation was not communicated clearly up front. Tim has mis lead us, not necessarily intentionally, but we have been mis lead.
I'll probably get a lot of flack for these comments, but felt the need to express them anyway.
arno
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