Charleston, South Carolina

Aside from the photo, there isn't much on the public portion of Roof’s Facebook page. His apparent MySpace page is even more cryptic, featuring just a photo of a dog and a Sunkist can and the following song from the Christian metal band A Thousand Times Repent.

Family is Christian, so the Islamic terrorist angle isn't there.

Lindsey Graham downplays race after black church shooting: People ‘looking for Christians to kill them’

where did he get his racisim? I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a family affair.

Maybe SC can become as enlightened as Texas, not a high bar.

A national disgrace.

how much more "enlightened" can you get?

Our society glorifies violence in so many ways. These kids today are being raised on a constant dose from TV, movies, and those video games that are absolutely appalling.

when a 2nd Amendment fanatic has his son or daughter killed like this, then rest assured they will re-think gun control

That's because the arms merchants have built and sold millions upon millions of weapons to civilians. This isn't some kind of natural disaster. This situation where 'criminals can get a gun if they want' IS A DIRECT RSULT of the proliferation of firearms in our society. 1+1=2.

We don't have a gun problem...we have a society problem.

And the confederate flag is still proudly flown in S. Carolina.

yes, and they name streets after Confederate Generals..

My thoughts, and prayers go out to the families and friends of those who were murdered.

Gun laws are definitely screwed up in this country. There should be more regulations as to who can own a gun. The kid was obviously a withdrawn and angry individual yet he got a gun for his birthday? Without the access to the gun he would most likely just jump off a bridge which would do the society a favor.

what would have prevented him from simply burning the church down or blowing it up?

Jun 19, 2015 - 09:53am PT
My only offering to this thread is as follows:

My thoughts, and prayers go out to the families and friends of those who were murdered. My heartfelt wish is that each of you is able to find the peace to overcome this tragic impact to your life.

The rest of you can back to arguing now.

This is the problem...people who never want to debate or argue the issue of racism and/or gun violence. Just go about your day...until it happens again.

He was already prohibited. He got a gun anyway

This countries weird obsession with firearms has led to far too many senseless deaths and is an embarrassment to all who live here.

What is the obsession with shooting at glass bottles on BLM land

that everyone says they care so much about.

This is the problem...people who never want to debate or argue the issue of racism and/or gun violence. Just go about your day...until it happens again.

because they can

A new law needs to hit the books...

One that says something along the lines of...

You can't give a gun to a fuked up, bigot, NUTCASE...

If we refuse to except a few small changes and to self regulate ourselves better then get ready for more intrusive laws that neither of us want.

Super big time regulation...

Wouldn't solve everything...

Nothing does...

But most likely would save some lives...

U. S. gun violence per capita has been on a fairly decline for the last several decades

next day President Obama pushed gun control and reminded us all of America's "dark past."

Any death of this sort is a tragedy. Any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. There is something particularly heartbreaking about the death happening in a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace, in a place of worship.

Mother Emanuel is, in fact, more than a church. This is a place of worship that was founded by African Americans seeking liberty. This is a church that was burned to the ground because its worshipers worked to end slavery. When there were laws banning all-black church gatherings, they conducted services in secret. When there was a nonviolent movement to bring our country closer in line with our highest ideals, some of our brightest leaders spoke and led marches from this church’s steps. This is a sacred place in the history of Charleston and in the history of America...

Until the investigation is complete, I’m necessarily constrained in terms of talking about the details of the case. But I don’t need to be constrained about the emotions that tragedies like this raise. I’ve had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don’t have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. Now is the time for mourning and for healing.

The good news is I am confident that the outpouring of unity and strength and fellowship and love across Charleston today, from all races, from all faiths, from all places of worship indicates the degree to which those old vestiges of hatred can be overcome. That, certainly, was Dr. King’s hope just over 50 years ago, after four little girls were killed in a bombing in a black church in Birmingham, Alabama.

He said they lived meaningful lives, and they died nobly. “They say to each of us,” Dr. King said, “black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution. They say to us that we must be concerned not merely with [about] who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American Dream.

“And if one will hold on, he will discover that God walks with him, and that God is able to lift you from the fatigue of despair to the buoyancy of hope, and transform dark and desolate valleys into sunlit paths of inner peace.”

Reverend Pinckney and his congregation understood that spirit. Their Christian faith compelled them to reach out not just to members of their congregation, or to members of their own communities, but to all in need. They opened their doors to strangers who might enter a church in search of healing or redemption.

Mother Emanuel church and its congregation have risen before –- from flames, from an earthquake, from other dark times -– to give hope to generations of Charlestonians. And with our prayers and our love, and the buoyancy of hope, it will rise again now as a place of peace.

The quickest way to stop an evil man with a gun, is a good one with one.

And SC must have gun laws where you can't just give a pistol
to another person without a fed background check and paperwork
handled by a licened gun dealer?

instead keep quietly insisting that is the price we pay to live "free"

And, again, no proposed gun law would have prevented this.

And, again, no proposed gun law would have prevented this.

What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

And SC must have gun laws where you can't just give a pistol
to another person.....

What's pathetic is that people are walking around like Wild Bill Dumbfuk shooting innocent people...

We do indeed need to put more focus on addiction issues and how they're being dealt within our country...

FWIW the transcript you posted is heavily edited, we'll just have to agree to disagree on certain aspects of the content. Cheers.

Says nothing.

one fought the cops

one didn't

one was a 21 YO healthy kid. that meekly surrendered.

The other was morbidly a obese diabetic with advanced heart disease that chose to resist.

madbolter, I am curious as to how gun-lessness begets simpering loserness. Are you saying that your gun the man makes? If so, that seems soft.

no relevance to each other

if you are an american

He's calling for a national dialog on gun violence. We've got to try to do something instead of going back about our business until the next incident.

It is not an inalienable right to carry a gun.

a President cannot "put up a bill"

What a dumb comment, Wendell.
He was resisting because he was in a choke hold.

I hate to get drawn further into this crossfire, but one thing always bothered me about that explanation, and I have yet to hear a coherent explanation. How could someone in a strangling choke hold say "I can't breathe?"

"If it can happen in church, it can happen anywhere, so there's no answer to it," Keith said.

"Countries all over the world that have really strict gun polices, like Oslo, Norway. It happens there."

good parenting is a lost art...

A Northerner bows, deeply, to the South:

I have never seen anything like what I saw on television this afternoon. Did you hear the statements made at the bond hearing of the alleged Charleston, S.C., shooter?

Nine beautiful people slaughtered Wednesday night during Bible study at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, and their relatives were invited to make a statement today in court. Did you hear what they said?

They spoke of mercy. They offered forgiveness. They invited the suspect, who was linked in by video from jail, to please look for God.

There was no rage, no accusation—just broken hearts undefended and presented for the world to see. They sobbed as they spoke.

“I just wanted everybody to know, to you, I forgive you,” said the daughter of Ethel Lance, killed in the shooting. “You took something very precious away from me. I will never talk to her ever again. I will never be able to hold her again. But I forgive you.” She asked that God have mercy on the shooter’s soul. “You hurt me. You hurt a lot of people. May God forgive you. And I forgive you.”

A family member of Anthony Thompson said he forgave the shooter. “I forgive you and my family forgives you, but we would like you to take this opportunity to repent . . . confess, give your life to the one who matters the most, Christ, so that He can change it—can change your ways no matter what happens to you, and you will be OK. Do that and you will be better.”

The mother of Tywanza Sanders, also killed, told the shooter: “We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms,” she said. “Every fiber in my body hurts, and I will never be the same. . . . Tywanza was my hero. But as we said in Bible study, we enjoyed you, but may God have mercy on you.”

The granddaughter of Daniel Simmons Sr., also killed Wednesday, said, “Although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate, this is proof—everyone’s plea for your soul is proof that they lived in love and their legacies will live in love. So, hate won’t win. . . . I just want to thank the courts for making sure that hate doesn’t win.”

As I watched I felt I was witnessing something miraculous. I think I did. It was people looking into the eyes of evil, into the eyes of the sick and ignorant shooter who’d blasted a hole in their families, and explaining to him with the utmost forbearance that there is a better way.

What a country that makes such people. Do you ever despair about America? If they are America we are going to be just fine.

Afterward, outside the courtroom, people gathered and sang gospel hymns.

* * *
I just have to say what a people the people of Charleston are. They are doing something right, something beautiful, to be who they’ve been the past few days.

From the beginning they handled the tragedy with such heart and love. They handled it like a community, a real, alive one that people live within connected to each other.

From Thursday morning when news first spread everyone I saw on TV, from the mayor, Joseph Riley, to those who spoke for the church, to the police spokesmen, to the governor, Nikki Haley—they were all so dignified and genuinely grieving, and not the pseudo-grief we always see when something bad happens and the leader says our prayers are with the victims. Haley had to stop speaking for a few moments, so moved was she when she made her first statement. Riley said today, of the shooter, “This hateful person came to this community with this crazy idea that he would be able to divide us, but all he did was make us more united and love each other even more.” I read that quote Friday afternoon in the Journal, in Valerie Bauerlein’s story, and I thought: Riley isn’t just talking, he is telling the truth.

Charleston deserves something, a bow. So too do the beautiful people who go to Wednesday night Bible study in America in 2015. They are the people who are saving America every day, completely unheralded, and we can hardly afford to lose them.

There’s only one thing Charleston doesn’t deserve. People apart from the trauma, far away, have already begun to bring their political agenda items to the tragedy and make sure they are debated. Because this is the right time for a political debate, right?

Here’s an idea: Why don’t you leave the grieving alone right now? Why don’t you not impose your agenda items on them? Why don’t you not force them to debate while they have tears in their throats?

Don’t politicize their pain. Don’t turn this into a debate on a flag or guns. Don’t use it to make your points and wave your finger from your high horse.

These people are doing it right without you.

They are loving each other and helping each other. Let them grieve in peace. And respect them as what they are, heroic.

I don't own a firearm, and never have, so I don't think I qualify as a "gun nut."

No good gun owner there obviously and no one with the fortitude to jump him as he reloaded. That is a shame.

I've owned a gun or guns since I was 8 or 9 years old. I don't consider myself a "gun nut" either.

But that has little to do with the tragedy being discussed. The whole thing is bizarre. The father's gift of a .45 revolver to a convicted felon was certainly not indicative of good parenting.

But I don't buy it...

One key part of this horrific scheme — the weapon — came in April, when Roof bought a .45-caliber handgun at a Charleston gun store, the two law enforcement officials told Perez and Bruer from CNN.

Where was "GOD" during the shooting???...


Isn't it HIS house where this took place???...



Real progress would be if everyone entered the 21st century...

Mr. Roof had two prior brushes with the law, both in recent months, according to court records. In February, he attracted attention at the Columbiana Centre, a shopping mall, by asking store employees “out-of-the-ordinary questions” such as how many people were working and what time they would be leaving, according to a police report. An officer who responded searched him and found Suboxone, a prescription drug used to treat opiate addiction and frequently sold in illegal street transactions. Mr. Roof admitted that he did not have a prescription for the drug, the report said, and he was arrested and charged with felony drug possession. The case is continuing.

In April, Mr. Roof was charged with trespassing on the roof of the same mall. The police report said he had been banned from the mall for a year after the previous arrest. Mr. Roof was convicted on that charge, a misdemeanor.

there is something evil about the way the "rights" of gun owners overwhelmingly overshadow those of human beings who would prefer not to get shot.

“I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country,” the manifesto says. “We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.

Former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney on Saturday joined those calling for South Carolina to remove the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds in the wake of Wednesday's deadly shooting at a historic black church in Charleston.

"To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor Charleston victims," Romney said in a Twitter post Saturday.

The legal loophole that allowed Dylann Roof to get get a gun

Who needs a gun for self-defense? Anyone who has posted here up to this point? If so, why?

Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 06:10pm PT

I have always been careful to make it clear that I have no animosity to citizens of the United States, and am proud to call many U.S. citizens friends of mine. That said, I have a serious problem with inhabitants of any nation who seem to feel that the possession of lethal weaponry is somehow equated with the size of their penis, and have nothing but contempt for those who shrug off these atrocities as a fair price to pay for their "right" to own firearms.

DanaB: I'm pretty sure that the answer to your question is...

definitely not.

Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member


Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 7, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Dear Forum,

We have added a new administrative policy: freezing threads that have devolved mostly into personal attacks. These threads will exist on the site so that earlier posts can live on. But nobody will be able to post to a frozen thread in the future.

Why are we doing this?

We’ve noticed most of the personal attacks on the site come from just a handful of people in just a handful of threads. Most often, these are threads which were off-topic to begin with, but which over time deteriorated into largely political debates. Once politicized, these threads then seem to degrade further into personal attacks. We simply don't want to host these kinds of discussions (despite their popularity), and thus we'd ask you to: a) please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo, and b) don't be surprised if a thread which has become infected with personal attacks is locked to prevent further discussion. While occasionally it is appropriate to delete posters and threads, we prefer not to do this. Hopefully freezing threads that devolve into personal attacks will help with an ongoing effort to keep the forum a friendly and informative resource for climbers of all ages and interests.

Thank you,

RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member


May 20, 2015 - 11:56am PT

There are a great many places on the internet where the kinds of discussions Ron most commonly posted on, or started threads on, are appreciated. SuperTopo is simply not the right venue. We hope Ron will find an alternative site to express his many and thoughtful opinions. We'd be happy to have him back too, if he limited posts much more frequently to the kinds of things the climbing forum is intended for and avoid inappropriate posts.

only someone with a soul as sick as yours could sink so low as to blame the victims for their fate. Guns don't kill people, but arseholes with guns sure do.

Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member


Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 7, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Dear Forum,

We have added a new administrative policy: freezing threads that have devolved mostly into personal attacks. These threads will exist on the site so that earlier posts can live on. But nobody will be able to post to a frozen thread in the future.

Why are we doing this?

We’ve noticed most of the personal attacks on the site come from just a handful of people in just a handful of threads. Most often, these are threads which were off-topic to begin with, but which over time deteriorated into largely political debates. Once politicized, these threads then seem to degrade further into personal attacks. We simply don't want to host these kinds of discussions (despite their popularity), and thus we'd ask you to: a) please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo, and b) don't be surprised if a thread which has become infected with personal attacks is locked to prevent further discussion. While occasionally it is appropriate to delete posters and threads, we prefer not to do this. Hopefully freezing threads that devolve into personal attacks will help with an ongoing effort to keep the forum a friendly and informative resource for climbers of all ages and interests.

Thank you,

RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member


May 20, 2015 - 11:56am PT

There are a great many places on the internet where the kinds of discussions Ron most commonly posted on, or started threads on, are appreciated. SuperTopo is simply not the right venue. We hope Ron will find an alternative site to express his many and thoughtful opinions. We'd be happy to have him back too, if he limited posts much more frequently to the kinds of things the climbing forum is intended for and avoid inappropriate posts.

Seemingly, YOU prefer all people to be helpless victims, waiting on cops who will be ten minutes to arrive, instead of having the capacity to fend for themselves

You're more likely to die of the flu than a bullet.

MD 1, your a pretty sick individual to place blame on the reverend for not allowing guns in their church.

1791 slave rebellion
Enlightened writer Guillaume Raynal attacked slavery in the 1780 edition of his history of European colonization. He also predicted a general slave revolt in the colonies, saying that there were signs of "the impending storm".[38] One such sign was the action of the French revolutionary government to grant citizenship to wealthy free people of color in May 1791. Because white plantation owners refused to comply with this decision, within two months isolated fighting broke out between the former slaves and the whites. This added to the tense climate between slaves and grands blancs.[39]

Raynal's prediction came true on the night of 21 August 1791, when the slaves of Saint Domingue rose in revolt and plunged the colony into civil war. The signal to begin the revolt was given by Dutty Boukman, a high priest of vodou and leader of the Maroon slaves, during a religious ceremony at Bois Caïman on the night of 14 August.[40] Within the next ten days, slaves had taken control of the entire Northern Province in an unprecedented slave revolt. Whites kept control of only a few isolated, fortified camps. The slaves sought revenge on their masters through "pillage, rape, torture, mutilation, and death".[41] Because the plantation owners had long feared such a revolt, they were well armed and prepared to defend themselves. Nonetheless, within weeks, the number of slaves who joined the revolt reached some 100,000. Within the next two months, as the violence escalated, the slaves killed 4,000 whites and burned or destroyed 180 sugar plantations and hundreds of coffee and indigo plantations.[41]

crankster

Trad climber

Jun 21, 2015 - 08:11am PT
"Knee-jerk" reactions, jig? Seems to me people are just throwing out the idea that the availability of guns needs to be discussed and debated, given that they are used to murder people on a daily basis and are the weapon of choice for mass murderers. I'd suggest that the knee-jerk reaction comes from the gun lobby and their minions. Any mention of gun control of any kind and the predictable push back arguments are launched (government takeover, Jade Helm, no more bullets because Obama and Holder are massing them,....).

The Rev had nothing to do with no guns in church, it's a SC state law.

For what it's worth every mass shooting since 1950 with only two exceptions happened in a "gun free zone".

The predators that perpetrate these acts seek out places where they will not face the possibility of an armed defender.

Huckabee won't be 'baited' into Confederate flag debate, says it's not a ‘presidential’ issue

All other countries have constitutions that presume that governments grant rights, and thus that governments can take them away. Our government was designed in unique fashion, whereby the definition of tyranny was built in: ANY government that fails to uphold and protect inalienable rights is tyrannical, regardless of how "benevolent" it might appear to any particular subset of the governed

Make love, not war.