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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 7, 2015 - 12:38pm PT
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I have over 1000 different bolt hangers to show so I was thinking of hijacking Ed Hartouni’s thread, “Bolts from the Wayback Machine,” but then I decided it may be better to create my own bolt hanger thread.
On my first day of climbing with a rope, while on rappel I slipped and let go of the rope falling 40 feet and somehow I caught the rope just as I hit the ground. For my second roped climb I lead the Fresh Air traverse route on Camelback Mountain, and while leaning back on the belay anchors one of the bolts ripped out of the wall. I found it to be really exciting that now I had a souvenir from the climbing adventure I was on. As a kid I collected everything especially those Wacky Packages stickers, record albums, and beer cans. Now I was set on collecting bolt hangers because I had no money and hangers were basically the lowest cost item in the climbing catalog. In my mind I thought achieving the hanger monopoly would be easy since there were probably only 75 or so different hangers to locate. I later realized that there was no end to the different bolt hanger possibilities. So this thread is dedicated to all the climbers out there that also share the passion for bolt hangers. The beauty in the creation, the mission of getting it installed, the path it creates for everybody, the adventure in replacing or removing them, the statements the hangers themselves have made to other climbers, and the incredible climbing history that remains with each hanger.
 If you have created your own bolt hanger, may it be the newest most incredible design or a rusted angle bracket from your grandfathers 1930s chicken coop, I ask for you to PLEASE send me one of your hangers and story to include into the Karabin Climbing Museum archive.
Mailing address: Phoenix Rock Gym, attn: Marty Karabin, 1353 E. University Dr., Tempe, AZ 85281
karabin714@gmail.com
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The best way to start this thread is with Yosemite National Park mentioned in the first sentence. Already I can hear you cheering and giving this thread a five star approval! Going back to the year 1957, the Northwest face of Half Dome is climbed and the Nose Route begins. I have seen many photos of gear from the Nose, but I want to get some of the FA bolt hanger history locked in. Back in 1957 there were a few hangers sold in climbing catalogs:
Gerry Mtn Sports was selling a cut horizontal piton with drilled hole hanger (since 1948).
Gerry’s aluminum “pop-top” hangers didn’t surface till around 1958.
Ski Hut 1953 catalog shows a long strap hanger.
Mid 1950s REI catalog shows a rectangle metal bent hanger.
Holubar 1954/1955 catalog shows a ring bolt hanger.
LONGware hangers in 1957.
Hardware store - metal strap with ring.
Out of 125 hangers that were placed on the first ascent of the Nose route, none of the hangers shown in the catalogs were used, except for possibly the REI catalog hanger. All of the hangers used on the FA of the Nose have a homemade look to them, possibly all made by William Dolt Feurer. Ed Leeper told me years ago that Warren Harding did not make his own hangers. Below is a photo of the gear used on the Nose in 1957-58. The photo was taken at the base of the route during sometime when they were hauling supplies up the wall. In the bottom center of the photo is a pile of hangers which are rectangle in shape with a midway bend. These hangers look like the hangers shown in the REI catalog, but so far in any collection or museum, I have not seen this style hanger which has been retrieved from the Nose route.
The hangers in the Nose gear photo look like my 1957 FA hanger from the Northwest face of Half Dome, and this hanger in the Steve Grossman collection. So somewhere on the lower section of the Nose this style hanger was being used.
This two hole Dolt hanger was originally placed somewhere below the Stove leg cracks. This other two hole Dolt hanger is presently on another route in Yosemite, but notice the shape is in the opposite direction (bent the other direction). This just shows that more than one of these hangers were created.
The FA hangers I see the most of credited to the Nose is the rectangle with midway bend flat bracket that has a hex shape top and hex shape bottom. This hanger is a good example of what the majority of Nose FA hangers look like. The hanger below is from Robert Pinckney which was originally placed just below Dolt Tower.
This is a photo from the Nose FA archives which shows a long strap hanger with diagonal bend placed one or two feet below the Dolt Winch. The same strap hanger can be seen in a Nose FA photo of Bill ‘Dolt’ Feurer.
Many small rectangular hangers with the word “DOLDT” are seen in many collections. The DOLDT hanger I have is from a bolt ladder between Texas Flake and Boot Flake compliments to Bryan Law. Also compliments to Bryan Law is the King Swing hanger from Boot Flake.
Just below the Great Roof there is a small belay ledge/pirch. This is where the Nose hanger in the Nanook collection is from. The two Leeper hangers in the photo are not original to the first ascent. Just the Dolt hanger on the right in the photo.
This hanger has a more rounded design to it and is stamped “RK.” Jim Bridwell replaced it during a rescue from Camp 5. I don’t know who or what the “RK” represents.
Somewhere near the Glowering Spot these hangers are located.
The ASCA created an advertisement to educate the importance of replacing old hangers to climbers. In the ad it shows this FA Nose hanger from the summit pitch.
Another FA Nose hanger from the ASCA, not sure where on the Nose route it is from. Also another hanger found at the base of El Capitan with a metal detector compliments to Michael Price.
So overall it looks like Dolt supplied all (or most of) the hangers for the first ascent of the Nose route on El Capitan. The Nose route started July 1957 and completed November 12, 1958. 125 hangers placed in 45 days of climbing over 18 months time. For the final 14 hours, Warren Harding hand drills 28 bolts on the summit pitch during the night by headlamp to finally reach the summit.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I believe this is one of Tom Rohrer's rap route anchors.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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fro Stoney Point possibly something Boodawg created?
Love ur climbers museum stuff marty!
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Marty thanks for the great gear threads. Here is Dolt hanger that came my way sometime. Much more refined than the ones in your post. Do you have one of these? If not I'd be glad to donate it to you.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 7, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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Norm, Thanks for the wonderful offer! As far as Dolt hangers go I am missing the ones shown in yellow in the photo, two hangers of which should be easy to find. I patiently wait. I have a few Dolt Nose hangers but I don't have the Grossman/Cummins two carabiner hole Dolt Nose hanger. That one may be tough to obtain, but anything is possible!
Thanks guys for the early energy! I am totally psyched to share my bolt hanger collection with everybody and even more psyched to see what other creations have been made and their story!
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Pyro: Not mine!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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nice thread
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Tom Rohrer (aka the original Mad Bolter) used to include a small stamped tag at his Nose descent stations with instructions like "140' PEND RIGHT" to help folks down.
Anyone happen to snag one of these for show and tell?
The square edged hanger from my collection shown up thread came from the Leaning Tower so it is likely from the same batch of hangers as the stack shown with the large pitons at the base of the Nose. Doesn't get much simpler than this making a hanger from scratch; Cut, punch and bend.
The three hole "Dolt Ear" as I like to call it was made specifically to serve as a single bolt anchor connecting lengths of fixed rope low on the Nose. They weren't hauling station to station and instead chose to do longer hauls from the better spots with ledges. I need to confirm that Bill did in fact make these hangers the next time I talk with Mark Powell as he is the only one remaining from the original team and these hanger aren't stamped.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The old bolt ladder on Headstone used to have a fine assortment of hangers. One was a ring-angle piton, sawed off, with the bolt hole in the spine.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Pyro: Not mine!
Thanks Boodawg!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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During the first ascent of the Nose route there were a lot of things going on. Previous to the beginning of the Nose route Harding and Robbins had already developed an aggravation between them due to their different climbing styles. When Harding went up to establish a route on Half Dome and Robbins was already on the wall nearing the summit, Harding didn’t go after a different line on Half Dome, he reluctantly congratulated Robbins on the summit and then headed to the opposite side of the Valley. The Nose route was on since it was the next big thing, and as Harding states, it was away from Robbins. The climbing team of three is established being Warren Harding as the expedition leader, Mark Powell was the pro climber, and Bill ‘Dolt’ Feuerer was a accomplished (had balls) climber along for the adventure. Bill eventually found his place and climbing identity becoming the silly guy stumbling through the process and the Dolt of his friends, which then he titled himself the DOLDT. Bill was also handy because he was creating the gear that was needed to ascend the route as they needed it. Bill stamped DOLDT on all of his 1957 climbing gear and on a handful of hangers used on the FA Nose ascent. When 1958 came around Bill changed his DOLDT identity to Dolt. I wonder if at first he didn’t like to be referred to an an idiot (Dolt), so he purposely added the extra ‘D’ to his title?
In September 1957 Powell breaks his ankle and is unable to climb. Warren Harding however was anxious to get back on the Nose route no matter what. Bill Feuerer took Powell’s side and said the route has to wait, but Harding got a few other climbers to help him continue on and finish the Nose route. Dolt enjoyed the fun climbing adventure/party with Harding, but was a little upset that Harding continued the route by breaking up the original ascent team. Many emotions fall into place here. I have hundreds of first ascents and I know how it feels when somebody else takes your FA glory. All the time and moments you put into a route and in the end your name is nowhere in the books. However my routes are just one or two pitches long. Dolt was involved in a 34 pitch route, yipe!
The Yosemite Park service didn’t necessarily approve of the Nose ascent because of the media and curiosity it was creating with the tourists. The climbers were given an ultimatum to finish the route by Thanksgiving. Other climbers helped to push the route higher up like: Al Steck, Wally Reed, Rich Calderwood and others. Finally on November 12, 1958 Warren Harding, Wayne Merry and George Whitmore top out on the Nose route summiting El Capitan and are overcome by a large amount of newspaper and magazine press. Dolt and Powell get no congratulations in the newspapers for their efforts. In the FA stories of the Nose, Powell and Feuerer are noted in the history but not for being on the summiting team. Powell goes on elsewhere being the superstar climber. Dolt finds his place becoming the gear supplier to all climbers, and Harding takes the overall fame of the Nose route.
I believe that Dolt really wanted to be one of the summiting team members, but his personal pride within the situation prevented him from getting back on the route, and it didn’t slow Harding from reaching the summit. Probably the reason Dolt became a gear manufacturer was that it made him feel that he was part of THAT Nose summiting team. He wanted to be a big part of that climb and wanted people to remember him. Example: The Dolt Tower, Dolt Hole, Dolt winch, Dolt Cart, Dolt pitons, Dolt Hangers stamped DOLDT. Through William Feuerer’s gear being used on the Nose route, the Dolt name became as huge as Harding in the history books……..but yet Dolt never summited. Dolt continued to supply the FA Nose climbers with needed gear, but Powell and Dolt never rejoined Harding on the route.
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In 1958 Dolt puts out a catalog showing hammer holsters, hammers, bolt hole scrapers and more, but he shows no bolt hangers being available. I am not sure why Dolt just supplied the whole Nose route with hangers, but shows no hangers in his 1958 catalog. Dolt creates a set of 13 angle pitons which are all basically the same width in measure. They only differ in length and angle taper, but they still fill a void in what gear was available at the time.
In 1960 Dolt puts out a new catalog which has photos of two different hangers. One hanger is a “step on” hangar (hanger) and one is not. Both are available in 1/4” or 3/8” sizes. I have seen these hangers with and without the Dolt stamp. The hangers shown in the 1960 Dolt catalog photos have no logo Dolt stamp. In the photo below two hangers are shown along with the catalog photo. One is the “Step on” hanger and one is a further modified Step-on hanger. The second photo below is a ’Step On’ hanger from the Nanook collection.
Tom Frost and Dolt are friends and create a bunch of larger bong pitons to be used on the second ascent of the Nose September 1960. The ascent is by Royal Robbins, Chuck Pratt, Joe Fitschen and Tom Frost.
October 1960 William “Dolt” Feuerer is on the front cover of Summit Magazine on the Traitor Horn, Tahquitz.
In late 1960 Yvon Chouinard offers to the public a set of four steel bongs which were the same design of the Frost/Dolt bongs. And in 1961 Chouinard offers to the public the same set of bongs but in aluminum. I am not sure if this second time that the Nose route and Dolt had an ugly moment together caused this, or it was a rift of friendship between Chouinard, Frost and Dolt, but January 1962 Dolt decides he is out of the climbing business.
Strangely enough at the time when Tom Frost joined forces with Yvon Chouinard creating the Great Pacific Iron Works, Dolt announces he is back in business and both companies create the greatest quality climbing gear in the United States. A Dolt advertisement in Summit magazine May 1967 lists four hangers that Dolt has for sale. The Model V and the Model H in 1/4” or 3/8” bolt hole sizes. The Dolt June 1967 catalog shows photos of the Model V and Model H hangers. The chrome versions of the Model V hangers I believe were made in 1970. These were not the first die cut hangers made. Gerry made die cut aluminum “pop-top” hangers around 1958.
Dolt filed for a patent on May 1967 and the drawings show a few different shape pitons and a bolt hanger. Don Lauria found this Dolt hanger in Dolt’s toolbox when he obtained the Dolt estate. I still have not seen a second of these hangers.
A Dolt advertisement shown in Summit magazine October 1968 shows the Dolthanger Model HK Keyhole hanger available in two sizes.
Another hanger that Don Lauria found in Dolt’s toolbox is this aluminum angle. This style hanger is first shown available in the 1964 Holubar catalog listed as a Holubar hanger. Not sure why Dolt made this hanger or when it was made, but for now I have it listed as a Dolt prototype hanger.
If Dolt had got past his pride and continued on with the Nose route with Harding, then just imagine how the top of the Nose route would be today. …….then take the DOLDT ladder up to the worlds greatest King Dolt Swing then through the Great Doltroof. Dolt would have been the climber to get hit in the head with the Stove leg piton instead of Harding, so the area would have become known as the Doltering Spot. And the summit pitch would have been made with 28 gold plated Dolt hangers all signed by the FA party members. Once on top of the route climbers can enjoy the view from the Dolt Scenic Overlook. Also within the Dolt Scenic Overlook is the Dolttree, which stops the running time for the Nose speed ascents. In reality if Dolt had just continued on with the Nose route and summited with Harding, Dolt would have become the biggest Yosemite legend of them all. His gear products would have been distributed worldwide and the Nose route would be the Dolt companies foundation. Dolt would have owned the Nose! Even if he had never climbed another route in his life again, he would still be huge! History of course has its way and the FA Nose summit goes to Harding, and the “overall legendary Yosemite gear creator” goes to Chouinard.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Bandito bump!
Cool thread, Marty! I bet you have one of these:
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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Before I move on with this thread I want to give a few final Marty thoughts on the First Ascent of the Nose. I believe that Harding did the correct thing by continuing on with the route, If Powell had sprained his ankle the route could have waited until the ankle was healed. But in this case Powell shattered his ankle where already healing time for the injury would be over a year. They were presently 1/3 of the way through their route project and now Powell becomes a question mark. The biggest question is will Powell’s ankle even when healed be strong enough to get back onto the route. There was already media attention going on with the route and I am sure in Hardings mind he felt that if his ascent party didn’t stay with the climb, other climbers could steal the First Ascent. I am sure that Powell understood the situation and was cool with whatever decision was made. But Dolt decided to hide behind Powell for some reason and removed himself from being on the ascent. If I was Dolt I would have continued on with the route and understood the situation. Maybe Dolt enjoyed climbing with Powell and was uncomfortable climbing with just Harding so he proposed that the climb has to wait. Maybe Dolt had a vision on how huge he could become with the Nose route and it totally scared him so he used this Powell situation as an escape. History shows that at this time Dolt became disillusioned. So now Dolt steps away from being the climber, and remains within the climbing world as THE climbing gear manufacturer. I believe that the Nose route was one of the weighted bricks of pain that Dolt carried with him to his 1971 suicide. OK enough with the Nose route. So many more beautiful bolt hangers to cover.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 10, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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The old bolt ladder on Headstone used to have a fine assortment of hangers. One was a ring-angle piton, sawed off, with the bolt hole in the spine.
I remember that.
One correction on the Nose rescue thread -- the climber who pulled the loose block on himself at Camp 5 did it in the fall of 1972, not in 1973. I was benighted on the Powell-Reed that night and the searchlight-illuminated rescue provided the entertainment during our vigil.
Anyone have a close-up of the "recycled" hanger on Twinkle Toes Traverse in Pinnacles?
John
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Jun 10, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
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WORLD'S GREATEST BOLT HANGER THREAD
It's destined to be! Bump Bump
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jun 10, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
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I need me a 'step on' hanger!
Super Plafond Hanger!
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tripmind
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Jun 10, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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Do you think the RK stamp might be Ron Kauk?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
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RK for Ron Kauk is something I didn’t consider but probably not. Ron was Born in 1957 and the bolt was pulled in fall 1972 (1973 mistake) so he would have only been 15 years old climbing the Nose. Also at that early age I don’t know why he would want to leave his mark on the Nose. In 1975 Ron free climbed Astroman with John Long and John Bachar. The RK hanger was very rusted and was there for quite a while. Jim Bridwell cleaned the rust off with a wire brush or something before he gave it to me.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 09:55pm PT
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I was reading Warren Hardings story on the Dolt, and he says that Dolt became disillusioned and started quoting the Bible a lot late 1957. He moved to southern California and started his job at Douglas Aircraft. But as others joined on the Nose route ascent with Harding, Dolt was still on the route as well pushing it to Texas Flake. In the Spring of 1958 Powell came back and the three of them while having gear difficulties drilled the DOLDT hanger ladder from Texas Flake to Boot Flake, where Harding took a big fall while ascending Boot Flake. Dolt went back to quoting the Bible about impending doom and Powell’s ankle was not holding up so that is the last time Dolt and Powell were on the Nose. In Mark Powell’s story on the Dolt, he mentions that Dolt got upset and was screaming to God when a magnesium hanger snapped under the pressure of his body weight. So add magnesium hangers to the FA of the Nose route. Maybe the Magnesium hangers were those longer strap hangers shown in the photo under the Dolt Winch? Harding states that he felt that Dolt was done with this type of climbing. Harding at the end of his Dolt story explains another scene which shows that Dolt’s “pain” was happening as early as 1957. Dolt wasn’t scared of Harding, and it appears like Harding was actually watching over and caring for the Dolt the whole time. Harding writes:
Scene: Camp 4, Yosemite Valley, sometime 1957. Campfire burning low. Dolt and Warren Harding sitting staring into the embers, sipping a last glass of wine (all the others have sacked out - passed out?).
Action - dialogue: Dolt suddenly rises to his feet - his beard bristles - his cold, pale blue eyes flash.
“Warren, I’m going to learn to fly!!”
“Sure Dolt - I know you can do it,”
Warren replies with the uneasy feeling that Dolt isn’t thinking about airplanes…
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jun 12, 2015 - 10:40pm PT
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Rupert Kammerlander used to stamp his hangers RK. I am not sure of his Yosemite climbing experience, but he put up a lot of long free climbs at Pinnacles National Monument(now Park). Hmmm.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2015 - 10:12am PT
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Gibralter Rock
My wife liked to take vacations to resorts and relax seeing the town and hitting the spa. Spa day to me meant “road trip to explore a near by crag!” On this trip I headed up to Gibralter Rock. I felt really lost following the map directions up up and up the hill but somehow I found it. I was at Gibralter Rock which is located above the town of Santa Barbara California. Awesome chunk of stone for sure and the parking is conveniently at the top. I first did an easy climb on the South face called Clingon 5.8 which was manageable and gave me great confidence that my day was going to be awesome. Sometimes climbing with the soloist scares the crap out of me especially on lead. So I stepped it up a notch and moved over to the west face to a route called T-Crack 5.10a. I remember that the hand crack crux of the route was awesome but the route seemed short and the excitement of the route ended early.
So to my right was another route which I thought I read in the guidebook was a 5.10+ called Mirror in the Bathroom. I noticed the route having a 3 bolt face alternate 5.11- finish at the top. I needed to set a down/below anchor for soloist but the start of the route was 30’ up a easy broken slab. Overall I didn’t want my rope anchor to be low on the slab because if I fell early on the route the rope stretch alone would deck me onto the top of the slab. So I free soloed up the slab to where the wall got vertical and I used the first bolt of the route as my soloist down anchor (don’t do this and besides my anchor was only a single old bolt). The second bolt looked really close so I just had to get to it and then I would be relatively safe the rest of the way. By the third bolt I already knew that I was on a 5.12 or something because I had already way passed my comfort zone of fear and I was still scared that I may deck on the slab. I was totally gripped but at the same time I was in the zone. I guess I could have grabbed the quickdraw and then bailed, but I figured I was already getting out of the rough since there was a big major sloping rail to my right for my feet.
I was up around bolt 4 or higher when I fell and it felt like the soloist wasn’t grabbing at first. I heard a pop and then the rope caught me and I stopped even with the second bolt. At first I looked around as I was hanging and started laughing from the excitement while I could feel my heart pounding to the max. But when I looked over at my quick draws the adventure wasn’t over. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing and I became as still as I could. The first bolt had ripped away from the wall and shot upward into the second bolts quickdraw. The figure eight knot had passed through the carabiner of the quick draw and the only thing stopping me from hitting the deck, was that the locking carabiner on the anchor got stuck in a perpendicular position within the second quick draws carabiner. I took a quickdraw off of my harness and slowly and gently clipped one carabiner to the draw and one to the locking carabiner as a backup. Then I locked on my ascender to the rope and made the second bolt my new soloist down anchor. If the second draw didn’t catch I still had a third and fourth draw, and after that I would have been toast.
I was thinking at this point of bailing from the route since I already chanced death, and I promised my wife that I would return to the resort unbroken. But for some reason I knew I could do this route. At that time in my life my climbing was peaking around V8 and I could climb 5.12 sport and 5.12 trad cracks, and I had already climbed hundreds of routes with a Soloist and a solo Rescuscender. So I jugged back up to my high point and I continued the lead from there. I stuck the moves and made it to the 3 bolt face variation at the top. I believe at that time there was still fresh drill dust around the three bolts, and if my memory serves me well that upper 3 bolt face is a totally classic thin crimp climbers dream.
From my day of climbing at Gibralter Rock I felt like I was glowing from the excitement. I had a huge smile all the way back to the resort. But first I stopped at the climbing store in Santa Barbara and told a climber that worked there that I broke their Gibralter Rock route. I showed him the old bolt hanger which was instantly my new and most cherished souvenir. The climber was shocked at my story and showed me an updated Gibralter Rock topo which showed that Mirror in the Bathroom was an aid route rated C2 5.10+. Within a realm of total fear I somehow almost sent the route free on lead on a soloist. Good memories for sure!
This hanger looks like a LONGware hanger and was placed in 1954 by Herb Rickert, Rick Knight and John Hestenes. The hanger has no manufacturers stamp. The 1974 SMC hanger also from Mirror In the Bathroom I obtained years later from a different climber.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jun 13, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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Marty glad you survived the Gibralter rock incident!
I love the Santa Barbara sandstone climbing..
my favorite crack climb is the makunamia at cold Spring Dome
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jun 13, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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Cool thread there Marty, thank you all the work you have dedicated to chronicling our climbing heritage and the vast repertoire of equipment paraphernalia and the characters associated with such.
If I can locate these I'll see if I can get a sample to you for your collection.
This brought back some old memories of climbing at the St Helena Palisades with some rather sketchy hangers we fabricated and placed!
"I remember doing some routes in the Palisades with Roper in the early 60's. We made up these crazy bolt hangers out of old license plates!
A short lived adventure into making hardware. We borrowed some ginormnous Eucalyptus stumps from the golf range in Tilden Park for our "anvil", and set up shop in Ropers backyard.
Not one of the most intelligent things we ever did. Then again not one of the dumbest."
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
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Pyro, on that same Santa Barbara vacation I went up the mountain again and bouldered at Lizards Mouth. I had a single piece of paper topo drawing with 30 problems listed on it all surrounding the Lizards Mouth formation. I could not believe how awesome the stone was and how many boulders were in that area that were still unclimbed and unexplored. There are probably 1000 boulder problems there now?
Guido, I saw your awesome license plate hangers on Ed Hartouni's thread. They are beautiful and very scary! I hope none of them broke on you guys as you were climbing on them.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
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Baboquivari Peak, Southeast Arete route
Old relics found on Babo. In the 1930s, the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) built a ladder up the final pitch of the Forbes Route, and built a heliograph station on the very top of the peak. The heliograph station was a device used to signal from one mountain peak to another. Today only brackets remain in the rock and wood from the structure is scattered around. The nails are from the heliograph station. The drill bit was found in the bushes near where the heliograph station once stood. The large bracket is one of the original ladder brackets placed in the 1930s, and a piece of wood from the original ladder. The LONGware bolt hanger is from the Southeast Arete route pitch six belay, placed in March 1957 by Don Morris, David Ganci, Tom Hale, Joanna McComb and Rick Tidrick. The original bolt used was a 1/4” flat head screw put into a wood plug which was jammed into the rock.
In 1999 my friends and I arrived at Baboquivari Peak to climb the Southeast Arete. We arrived mid day and carried along our sleeping bags to spend the night on Lions Ledge and do the climb the next day. The guidebook says a 45 minute approach and it took us four hours to get there. Darn guidebook authors! Already another party was on Lions Ledge camped at the seep and had ropes strung up a few pitches on the Spring route. The night was calm except for a few baby skunks that kept pestering us and rummaging through our belongings. Not much sleep that night but its morning so lets climb! My friends were excited to get onto the route and I was excited to get on top and get a 1930s ladder bracket for my museum. On me my water was in my Camelbak along with a very big crescent wrench and unassembled hacksaw.
We started up the route and a few pitches up the hacksaw punctured my Camelbak and I was then instantly soaked and out of water. We got to the Pitch six belay where I saw the old LONGware hanger that was placed in 1957, along with a newer Metolius hanger to its right. We had a few pieces of pro in as well as being clipped into the two bolts so I hacksawed off the bolt from the top to free it from the rock. Once the hanger was removed it revealed its scary secret. The bolt hole was drilled and a wood plug was hammered in. Then a flat head 1/4” course thread screw was used to attach the hanger to the rock. I have seen lead plugs before and wood plugs, but all you climbers out there were basically hanging off of nothing. Let me explain: For Pitch 5 the climbers traverse 20’ left around the corner to a small position where a 500 foot vertical drop is now directly below. Clip the bolt and remain in a somewhat hanging belay position. So from 1957 till 1990s climbers were only hanging out on that one LONGware hanger. Yipe!!!
We summited late, signed the register, and still had an hour before we descended back to Lions Ledge. So as my partners were chilling I scampered around the summit to the top of the Forbes route and found my ladder bracket of choice. I chose it because the wood ladder step was still with the bracket. After the hacksaw fight the relic was freed from the rock. Back on the summit I searched around finding a few more items. I believe the original heliograph station was hit by lightning and burned down.
On the way down from the mountain I refilled my water bottle directly from the seep and suffered no problems from tainted water. It actually tasted really fresh. The LONGware hanger from the Southeast Arete route has no manufacturer stamp on it, but the measurements and everything are the exact same when compared to a LONGware hanger.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jun 13, 2015 - 11:10pm PT
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It might ruin the 'patina' of that old Longware hanger, but I had one from the 60's that was quite rusty. After running it under a wire brush on a grinder for 20-30 seconds I was just able to make out half of the Longware stamp.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
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LONGware
It will be nice to lock down the history of LONGware products. What year was the gear first created and then when did Dick Long stop making climbing gear? I have seen through the museums statements that LONGware started in the late 1950s, started in 1960, ended in 1962, ended previous to 1964, and then there is the 1968 Ski Hut catalog showing the whole line of LONGware products available. Hmmmm.
Items in the above photo:
c1960 - The three aluminum bongs are from Jim Bridwell
c mid 1950s - The three steel bongs are from Wally Vegors
c1964 - 6” T-Pin Piton from Wally Vegors, shown in magazine ad
c1964 - 6 1/2” T-Pin Piton belonged to Bill Sewrey, from Dana Hollister, shown in magazine ad
c late 1950s - painted light blue on red steel bong from Don Lauria
c Nov 1962 - rusted bong from Venus’ Needle. Layton Kor’s bong, from Jim Waugh
c? - 5” U-Form piton, channel piton
c late 1950s 1 1/4” Knife Blade painted light blue on red from Don Lauria. Don mentioned that the LONGware 1” Knife Blade is where Dolt possibly got his idea for his company logo. Same shape but slightly modified. If this was true then that would be circa early 1958, or late 1957 whenever Dolt first created the logo drawing.
c? - Ring Angle pitons 5” and 6”
c? - Blade piton found in the dirt under a picnic table in Camp 4, from Jay Clark
c? - Spoon piton
c? - Swivel pulley, shown in 1966 Holubar catalog.
I have LONGware hangers from the Leaning Tower which was completed October 1961. But Harding was on this route previous to the FA and I am not sure what year that was.
This steel 3 1/2” LONGware bong was used on the third ascent of the Nose. The two extra holes and rounded front tips are modifications by Robert Pinckney
Both 5” and 6” steel bong lengths were available in the 1950s.
1963/64 Holubar catalog lists the bongs in 5” or 6” lengths,
64/65 holubar list bongs only in 5” lengths
Ski hut 68 only in 5”
—The two hangers shown below are from the ASCA from Chris McNamara pulled from somewhere in the Yosemite Valley. These two hangers are the two style hangers that LONGware produced.
If anybody has any history for LONGware products please share. I was always under the impression that the larger bongs were available during the time the Nose route was being ascended. So sometime early 1958? The Yosemite climbers probably didn’t know about them. No internet yet:) But Wally is sure he purchased his set of three in mid 1950s. I also believe that LONGware bongs (late 50s) were available before Chouinard (1960) and then Clog (1962?) and SMC (early 1970s).
The LONGware hangers I thought started in 1957, but the Gibralter rock hanger is dated 1954. On the finishing end of the company history, many catalogs show LONGware products being available strongly through the mid 1960s and ending sometime 1968. Did Dick Long ever create a company catalog or brochure? Does anybody have his contact info?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 14, 2015 - 11:17pm PT
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Raps in Mendoza Canyon
So this is a Longwear?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jun 15, 2015 - 08:02am PT
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Marty was up lizards mouth sometime last year.
love the sandstone out there..
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jun 15, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^
Looks like a Longware to me.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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Gerry Mtn Sports and Salewa hangers were given three main nicknames.
“Pop-Top hangers, Co-Op hangers, and Lever-Out hangers.”
The “Pop-top” nickname for the Gerry and Salewa hangers came from the change in how a beverage can was opened. In 1935 beverages were now available in cans and the can style on the market was either a Cone Top or Flat Top can. The Cone Top cans had the same cap as bottled beverages had and were easy to open. The Flat Top can required a can opener to open them and many cans advertised can openers on the side of the cans. The Flat Top cans were easier to stack on the store shelves but were harder to open. So the Cone Top cans were popular up to the 1950s. In the late 1950s the pull tab top or “Pop-top” was invented and many companies started to have them on their cans. I believe Budweiser advertised their Tab-Top can in 1962.
At that same 1959-1962 time the Gerry Mtn Sports and Salewa Hangers were available through the catalogs. Climbers compared the hangers to be similar to the ring pull on the 1960s and 1970s beverage cans. The problem with the Pop-Top tabs were that people were opening the cans and throwing the pull tabs on the ground causing a big litter problem. The 1970s hippies loved to make necklaces out of strings of pull tabs interwoven together. In the late 1970s the Sta-Tab was invented and that’s the can opening lever that is on beverage cans today.
The Salewa hangers were being brought in and distributed through the climbing co-ops at the time, so the name “Co-Op” hangers were applied to the hangers. Also the design of the hanger being a lever in shape somewhat scared climbers to use these hangers since when the hanger was weighted it would somewhat loosen the rivets causing the hangers to spin.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Jun 16, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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Hey Marty, you know anything about these hangers? They're sort of strap-type, but different to anything I've ever seen anywhere else.
Placed 1967 by Eric Bjornstad on North Chimney, Echo Tpwer, Fisher Towers, Utah. Still there! Still hold bodyweight (or did as recently as 2007, forty years after the FA)! I asked Eric about this, showed him a photo, he had no recollection.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Jun 16, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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Very interesting study you've compiled. At first I thought, oh geez, what is this?, but then it really got my interest. Nice work!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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CRUNCH - Very cool bolts! I have not seen these before. Maybe they are made to hold up conduit in old buildings or something? I wonder if the nail bolt used is attached like a Star Dryvin bolt attaches, with two metal shield halves wrapped on the end by a piece of lead and then the nail is pounded in for a super snug fit. Or it is a nail pounded into just a drilled hole. I am a hardware bracket guy so I am sure I will come across this item now that I know what I am looking for. Telephone poles have mostly bolts and nuts. Plumbing would not require the bracket to be rounded. My guess would be that the bracket was used in a electrical application.
Nice bolt for sure!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2015 - 08:25am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2015 - 08:28am PT
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Jun 17, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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My guess would be that the bracket was used in a electrical application.
Ah yes, that does make sense, thanks! Alas, Eric died a year ago or I'd be sure to suggest this to him to try to jog his memory.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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I met Eric Bjornstad at a winter Outdoor Retailers Show in Salt Lake City at a dinner with Jim Waugh. Eric first said to me if I could not spell his last name he would not talk to me. So I spelled it and got it correct. Eric then rambled about his climbing career. At the end of dinner Jim disappeared so I had no ride back to my hotel so Eric said he would give me a ride. It was quite cold and snowing at the time and Eric's vehicle was packed with outdoor gear for everything and his dog was in the front seat. So on the ride to the hotel his big shaggy dog sat on my lap the whole way. Eric whimsically rambled and laughed all the way to the hotel where when we pulled in three old ladies were walking the crosswalk toward the hotel lobby. Eric looked at me and with a wheezing laugh said "look, three points." Eric punches the gas and suddenly speeds toward them on the icey ground. I was suddenly gripped and totally surprised as he hit the brakes in time avoiding the three ladies. We got some very nasty looks from the ladies but that made Eric laugh even louder. Yipe! Good times!
The following year the same scenario happened. I was at dinner with no vehicle and this time Fred Beckey drove me back to the hotel. Fred did not have a dog but his truck was packed with outdoor everything gear and he purposely sped up so he could slide his vehicle up to the lobby doors. He was impressed that his vehicle stopped perfectly at the hotel entrance. These older climbing legend guys sure have some interesting driving skills!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2015 - 10:42pm PT
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LONGware Product History
The other day I called the inventor of LONGware climbing gear. I dialed the number and while the phone was ringing, in my mind I began to recite on how I was going to say hello to him once the phone was answered. I first thought, “hello I am trying to get a hold of….Dick Long.” I thought to myself that the greeting sounds kinda dirty so scrap that one and try, “I am trying to get in contact with…….Dick Long.” And no way on that greeting also, laugh. The phone was still ringing so I was going into panic mode to hurry and prepare to say the proper greeting. So my next thought was “hello I am trying to in touch with…..Dick Long,” and thats where I started to laugh…..and then the phone answered…..oh great! But it was a female voice and she said she would leave a message for him to call me.
The next day I received a phone call from Dick and the conversation went back and forth saying “Hello” about eight times, and then I asked to talk to Dick. He replied “There is no Dick’s here, just ass holes.” I replied back to him, “with a greeting like that I would say you are not an ass hole, but more of a character.” He was surprised that climbers were still interested in LONGware products. He specifies that he was a inventor not an entrepreneur, and he was inspired to create climbing gear simply because he climbed. Dick was rummaging around while we were talking so the communication was choppy at times but this is what I got so far. He is going to send me greater details of his history through email.
I asked him since he was friends with Harding, then why did you not supply Harding with large bongs for the Nose FA? It was simply because Harding did not know about them, or Harding maybe had enough gear already, or because LONGware was not heavily advertised. No LONGware catalog was made. This shows that LONGware bongs were available during the Nose FA. Then Dick mentions that his gear manufacturing started before the Nose FA began, so very late 1956/beginning 1957 LONGware began producing products. This puts my Baboquivari LONGware hanger as original, but creates two questions for my Gibralter rock 1954 hanger. The hanger may be homemade, or the original hanger for some reason got replaced when LONGware hangers became available.
LONGware products were being made in California. Dick did not use Dies to cut out the shapes. On the other end of the history is when did LONGware stop making gear? In 1963 he entered third year in medicine and was going after his masters. So for now until I further talk to Dick, LONGware history 1957-1963, (Wow exactly what Bridwell told me). The LONGware products shown in the 1964-1968 Holubar catalogs, Ski Hut catalogs, etc are surplus that was being sold off through the years. Wow a ton of surplus!
Dick Long is presently 81 years old, and started climbing when he was 17 years old with his brother who was with the Sierra Club. Dick climbed a lot! A few days ago he climbed to the top of a 9000’ peak, but says these days he easily loses his balance. Father of many children. It was a great on the spot conversation, and now that he knows that I am wanting his story he will put greater thought into dialing in the overall history of LONGware products.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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The other night I had a visit from Art Christiansen who donated a few more items to the museum. Art is a total historian when it comes to climbing in the 1960s-70s. He corrects the Baboquivari Peak building being not a heliograph station but a fire watch. He also has no idea how it burned down but he gave me the names of the people in the 1964 Babo photo which I edited to the photo. Art donated a LONGware bong which has a different weld and bong crimp then the one I have, so other questions hopefully will be answered like the times the welds changed to rivets, and when LONGware bongs were painted red-orange as well as being non-painted.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 12:43pm PT
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Rap station from the Nose route. Tom Rohrer's Nose rap route
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
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Miscelaneous newer hangers that were pulled off of the Nose route.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
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Charlie Porter hangers that were on the Nose route. I don't have these and I am not sure where this photo is from.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 04:35pm PT
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LONGware History from the man himself
Thank you Dick for sharing your history with us!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jun 18, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
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Yes! Very cool!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
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-- Ashby from Vertical Archaeology writes:
I've been told by an early boulder climber that some of the strap-style hangers available in the late 50s early 60s could be found without the LONGware stamp. Memories can be fuzzy though. Harvey Carter told me (in 2004) that LONGware stuff could be found in shops until the early 1970s. Damn! That's a LOT of surplus!!! Harvey used LONGware bongs in the Fishers because they were wide and shallow and worked great in the weird bulges and fluted cracks on those towers. He said they were less suited to parallel cracks because he believed the spine of the bong was too flat and prone to shifting. I think it was personal preference to use big chouinards for stuff outside the Fishers.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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Back in 2003 the Natimuk Bolting Fairies ‘NBF” began a process of rebolting routes at Mount Arapilies in Australia. I donated a bunch of new hangers to their project and in return I received a few items, one of which is priceless! Big thanks to Ingvar Lidman for donating these items to the Karabin Museum. The chain anchor is from the early 1980s. A homemade keyhole hanger, possibly Pickard. A carrot bolt which is stainless steel. And a Mammut ring bolt from the famous test piece route “Lord of the Rings 5.13d (31).” The climb Lord of the Rings was created by Kim Carrigan as early as 1981. He originally called it “Serious Young Lizards” or the “Ring Route” prior to Stefan Glowacz’s free ascent in 1986 which dubbed it “Lord of the Rings.” Most locals still call it the “Ring Route” or “Lord.” Due to the routes major Australian climbing history, and the famous John Sherman free solo beer drinking photo, it was somewhat difficult for Ingvar and myself to obtain this precious relic! Ingvar you totally rock!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 11:55am PT
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Ashby Robertson 9:10am Jun 19
Here are a few more pictures for the bolt thread if you're interested. The black strap hanger marked "Carter" in gold was a product of a funny bit of bolt war history. Harvey Carter was chopping tons of bolts around Colorado Springs in the early and mid 90s. Most of these belonged to Stewart Green or Bob Robertson but ol' Harv was an equal opportunity chopper, he had a few of mine as well! He had a huge sling of hangers he had removed...must have had a hundred at least. He always did it solo so I didn't get to give him sh#t for it.
I was putting up a few damn hard aid routes back then and decided to take the piss out of him with a few "homage hangers" hehehe. One day after he ran across one on a new route in the Rampart Range area, he came stomping into Mountain Chalet (gear shop where I worked) cussing and as pissed off as I'd ever seen him. It was wonderful! Messin' with Harvey was kind of fun sometimes.
Also included:
Another LONGware hanger that is wide and thick like the older hanger you have in your collection.
A few Troll aluminum hangers with attached self-drive anchors.
A Cassin ring hanger and 3/8 inch split shaft
A bunch of "pop tops" unmarked purchased from REI in the 1966, with 1/4 inch split shaft Rawl studs.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
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Robert Pinckney homemade hangers
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
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SKY
In 2005 I received a box of historical climbing items from Derek Marshall in South Africa. Derek is the owner of SKY climbing company that makes bolt hangers. In 2004 I gave a shout out to many manufactures that I was nearing 1000 different bolt hangers in my museum. I just needed a few more to reach 1000. I believe Scott Miller relayed the message to Derek, and Derek responded adding 40 more different hangers to the museum. Derek also included some homemade climbing gear items.
Adrenelin from Australia
Alpha Vertical from South Africa?
Vektor from South Africa
CT (Climbing Technology) from Italy
AME (Arapilies Mountaineering Equipment) from Australia
Scavenger from South Africa
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
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Climbing Technology from Italy. I hope someday Climbing Technology will have a distributor in the USA. Their products on the internet looks so available, but the shipping charges to the USA are ginormous!!!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
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I just noticed that the bend on my LONGware hanger from the walls of Yosemite is opposite the bend (mirrored) of the other two LONGware hangers. So adding that each hanger was created with 1/4" or 3/8" bolt holes that makes 6 possible differences with this shape hanger
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
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DeLos Reyes homemade hangers
Marty Karabin homemade hanger
Late 1990 my climbing partner Scott drew a few bolt hangers on paper and came up with the idea of how we could save money by making our own hangers. We would split the overall cost and have a machine shop make them for us. Scott talked to the shop and the deal was made to make the hangers. We were totally psyched that we now had a hanger outlet and for half the manufacturers hangers shelf price. I believe we made 200 of the Shark Fin style hangers. But at the time we picked up the hangers, the machine shop charged us hundreds of more dollars than the original deal was for. Oh well, we paid and took them.
The stainless steel Shark Fin is a great hanger, but the extra metal which sticks out from the wall is unnecessary, and could hurt if the climber fell and hit it on the way down. I dubbed the Shark Fin hangers a DeLos Reyes creation since thats Scott’s last name and his design. I took 100 of the Shark Fin hangers and cut the extra chunk of metal away one by one using a hack saw and vice. Good cross training! This was the Marty Karabin hangers and some of them have “MK” on them sliced in with a dremel cutting wheel blade. So it was a fun experience making hangers, so we tried again with a new design.
This time when we picked up the finished hangers from the machine shop and the metal was thinner than what was quoted and the hangers were cut smaller than the drawing provided specified. I believe 100 of these SS hangers were made. We ended up getting a great deal on the hangers but they were not necessarily lead route worthy. These were called DeLos Reyes aid hangers. We used these hangers on top of pinnacles to aid in getting to the top anchors of the sport routes, for backup ledge safety anchors, or on aid routes. The majority of these hangers were placed in Devils Canyon in Superior, AZ.
For some reason Scott and I loved to experiment with climbing gadgets and to make our own creations. One time on Camelback Mtn while rappelling off of the Monk, I was using Scotts extended Figure Eight idea because we didn’t know why the belay/rap device had to always be positioned between the climbers legs. So good times and laughter while zipping down the free hanging section of the rappel, until the wind blew my long hair into the figure eight and moving twisting rope. Within seconds a good chunk of my hair got trapped and zipped through the device causing a chunk of skin behind my right ear to rip away. My rappel motion never slowed down, the hair was still stuck on the rope above, I have a bloody shoulder, and Scott’s laughter to listen to.
Mid 1990s we came up with the idea of climbing at the Oak Creek Overlook AZ while only using homemade gadgets for protection. I took cord and strung up a bolt hanger as a nut which worked really well. However I wonder if the hanger would fold under the force of a good lead fall. I also strung up a full range set of “sockets” which worked awesome as nuts! I can’t believe so many climbers were focused on hardware store threaded hex nuts when sockets were available everywhere. I grinded the outside of the sockets so they would catch the rock better and used the softer metal sockets from China so they would grip the rock better. Craftsman and Snap-On sockets somewhat didn’t grab the rock as well since the metal is quality. I even had offset Sockets, and I liked them so much I eventually colored them.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jun 23, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
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Marty-Great that you got in touch with Long. Super guy, one of the most natural and talented climbers of his era.
I use to "hang out" in his garage after high school and help grind pins. He was busy with med school, papa to a million kids and multi tasking with dozens of projects.
Here is a shot of Long and Steck at the Nose Reunion. Long, Steck and Roper made the 3rd ascent of the Salathe Wall way back on the time machine.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
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Guido, The thanks goes to you for hooking me up with the Long contact info! I sent him the links to the supertopo gear threads so hopefully he checks them out. It sounds like he never touches the computer but I have his email info if anybody needs it. On the spiritual side of things I felt like he is down on himself or something. Maybe some of his old friends should give him a hello.
I told him I am gathering many more LONGware questions for him, and will be in contact in a few months. In Marty style, I am going to put him to work! Dick Long is a inventor yes, but also a master craftsman!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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Jim Bridwell homemade hangers
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
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adkeditor - Is this how big that bolt and washer is that is pounded into the crack?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2015 - 09:39pm PT
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Buhlerhaken
This stainless steel glue-in bolt is made by a German guy named Buhler. The Buhler bolts are used mostly in the Frankenjura area close to Nuremburg Germany.
Great Trango Holdings
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2015 - 07:50am PT
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rolo
climber
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Jul 13, 2015 - 11:53pm PT
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Not sure who manufactured these, possibly Otto Weisskopf, an austrian emigree to Argentina.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jul 14, 2015 - 06:17am PT
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Oskar Bühler pioneered modern glue-in bolts starting in the early 60´s, he changed to stainless steel in 1965 and there are plenty around doing good service. Most were installed with quick setting cement which is why the one you show is so long though mostly they are resin bolts nowadays.
He was bricklayer and construction engineer which explains why he had the idea, he died in 2001.
In contrast to the various bits of nastily-bent steel we´ve been looking at here are the ones I manufacture. 8mm stainless steel tig welded, 10mm or 12mm/1/2" bolt hole and two sizes, protection hanger top and belay hanger below. Minimum 45kN breaking strain, no need for bail-biners and an end to damaged biners. At a price!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
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rolo - I can’t remember off hand what that piton bolt with the split shaft is named. Possibly single word starting with the letter G….I think? Anyways the piton bolt shows up in the 1968 Encyclopedia of Rock Climbing listed as #13. Also I found the same piton bolt on a illustration which I think was from Summit Magazine. See very bottom of the illustration below the hand drill.
JimT - is your company named “Bolt-Products”? Years ago Scott Milton gave me a bolt hanger which looks similar to yours. On the internet I came across the many items that Bolt-Products creates.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
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Yes, Jim T's company is "Bolt Products." Numerous cool innovations.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
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Found it! And its a single word starting with letter G.
The piton bolt is named Golo's Piton.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jul 15, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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I am indeed Bolt Products.
The welded rod hanger you show is either home-made or from Salewa, they marketed a similar product decades ago but I´m fairly sure they had a round eye for the karabiner.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2015 - 11:36am PT
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JimT - Jim Waugh was just in town and we got onto the subject of bolting routes, and he mentioned the common glue-in bolt he uses in Thailand is the Bolt-Products twisty bolts, which are the Rod Twisted Leg bolts. I know the Ushba titanium Tortuga bolt is a popular bolt used in Thailand as well.
I guess the next question is, how do I get a sample of all the Bolt-Products products for the Karabin Museum? Do you have a USA distributor and also a museum discounted price listing? .....(cough). Your products are most beautiful and I totally love the Monster Hook glue-in. A work of art for sure!
I know there is a link to your website on this thread, but with your permission I would also like to post the 28 photos of your many products on this Bolt Hanger thread for history purposes.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2015 - 10:58pm PT
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Troll
Question: Did Parba make bolting kits in the late 1960s? I know that Troll purchased/merged with Parba in 1970, but did the Parba name continue after 1970? In the early 1970s Ellis Brigham catalogs it lists a Parba bolt kit which is the Troll bolt kit. Just wondering if bolt hangers stamped “Parba” were ever made.
I am not sure what year the Troll hanger was first marketed (late 1960s?), but so far the earliest I found is shown in the 1970 Troll catalog.
From 1970-1974 the hangers in the bolt kits look all the same, but the hand drills all change. The 1970 Troll hand drill looks awesome! 18 or so years ago Stephane Pennequin sent me the 1974 Troll bolt kit. The early Troll 1970s hangers are rectangle on the bolt side, and the late 1970s Troll hangers have an extra cut on the bolt side, and a different outlined “troll” stamp is added under the carabiner hole.
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rolo
climber
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Jul 17, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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Thanks so much for the explanation, for digging the split piton's name and all the cool bits of history you posted. Much appreciated!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 17, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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Marty, I messaged you, let me know if you do not receive it.
Cheers!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jul 17, 2015 - 09:08am PT
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Marty, forgive me for posting the information below on this thread. When looking closely at your photograph of the Troll chocks, I well believe that the nut in the middle is most interesting. If it does not have any size number stamped on it, it may be one of the earliest nuts made by Troll, in 1963/1964. From the historical point of view, it predates the Clog Hexagon by three years!
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jul 17, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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No problem to send you some samples,I´ll mail you after the weekends climbing is over.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
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I obtained the two Troll Hexagons in a ebay auction last year. Both sizes do not have a number stamp and the ends of the smaller Hexagon is straight sided.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2015 - 10:10pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2015 - 10:29pm PT
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 19, 2015 - 09:27am PT
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 19, 2015 - 10:18am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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Brian in SLC - Nice hanger collection!
OR Show three weeks away
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Jul 21, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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Bolt but no hanger! Near Chamonix, France.
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Dr.Knox
Trad climber
Salzburg, Austria
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:22pm PT
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How about this:
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 22, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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Haha! I hadn't seen a particular hanger and noticed a few in my basement. I was logging on to see if you had any Troll Caving hangers and if you didn't offer to send you a couple and blamm -picture right here.
They feel like aluminum, damned things must be pretty weak.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jul 22, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
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The bolt on the right was placed by Anton 'Ax' Nelson and party on the route Kasperek's Delight at Pinnacles National Monument in 1946 a few months before Ax led the first ascent of the Lost Arrow Tip.
The bolt hanger on the left was made by cutting off the tip of a soft steel piton and drilled for a bolt and link. Circa late 50's early 60's. Ghetto climbing gear at it's finest.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 22, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
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Here is one of the runs we made.
1/4" SS
Nice little BC kit above, buddy John designed the hangers and the drills.
Plenty of fun stamps on most of the hangers that we placed.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jul 26, 2015 - 08:35am PT
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Those 1/4" bolts are puny, here's what I've been putting in. 3/4" x 10"
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
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Austri Alpin
Austri Alpin is located in Austria and creates “Premium quality mountaineering products.” Summer 2014 Austri Alpin was in Salt Lake City Utah and donated a bunch of bolt anchors to the Karabin museum. I already had a few Austri Alpin bolt hangers which were sent to me in 1999, and this 2014 collection is an awesome addition. Thanks Austri Alpin!!!
http://www.austrialpin.net
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
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Greg Kuchyt
Trad climber
Potsdam, NY
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Jul 31, 2015 - 07:34am PT
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Can anyone identify this hanger? It was used with a 10mm self-drill anchor that I replaced a couple weeks ago. This route had a bunch of bolts added after the FA. Looks like the above Kong Bonaiti but subtly different around the clip-in point. I can try to get a better picture if needed. It's hard to see the logo with the corrosion. Thanks!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
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Greg, that hanger looks like these Camp hangers.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2015 - 09:38pm PT
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Climb Tech
“The Anchoring Innovators for Fall Protection, Rope Access, Confined Space, Work-at-Height, Mining, Rescue, Rock Climbing and More.”
http://www.climbtechgear.com
Climb Tech creates a lot of really cool safety equipment and anchors including removable bolts. I was lucky to be around when Climb Tech Karl and Joseph were first creating the RB’s (removable bolts), and scored many prototypes for the museum. In the mid 1980s Karl and Joseph owned a company named Go-Pro and created Rock and Rollers-sliders. Thanks Karl for your many donations to the museum! Climb Tech is located in Austin Texas USA.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 24, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 24, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
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As of an hour ago...safe and sound with me:
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 24, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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Roots - I knew I was late seeing that gear thread and sure enough there was one of the Dolt hangers I am seeking. Maybe Steve got the other one. Is there anything on the back side of the green Dolt tag? Two weeks later after the first post and the Nut Chock wrench was still available. I am surprised none of you guys, not even Stephane went after it.
Destined for the Karabin Museum!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Aug 25, 2015 - 12:31am PT
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Marty... will you believe me...? I did not see this treasure on the photograph. As you know, I am a rather old guy and a grey item on a grey background is able to mislead me... Please Marty, could you send me a good photograph...?
From the historical point of view, the Chock Wrench predates the patented Ruhl Tool by three years...
Edit: Marty… imagine… if I ever would have seen and identified the Chock Wrench on that thread, then I immediately would have contacted you and asked you to get this nut tool for me… It would have been a terrible dilemma for you. On the one hand you would have loved to please me… on the other hand it would have been a painful experience for you to part with it… So I have an idea: you can keep the nice photograph that you are going to shoot for me and drop the nut tool in the post. Do you enjoy Corsican humor…?
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 25, 2015 - 12:54am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2015 - 06:53am PT
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I knew I had arrived late seeing that most of the birds had already left the carcass. My shoulders shrugged as I saw the size of the prize, and my late arrival to the meal left me with just scraps. But my hunger made me press on as I discovered that there was still prime meat on the bone. Was this an oversight by the other birds? Or were the other birds being generous so I would praise them for their initial kill?
Stephane I just mailed you the Chock Wrench, Happy Birthday young man. Oops I still have it, must be Corsican humor!
:)
For now I need to have the Chock Wrench in my hands since I can't believe that I actually have it. And Stephane and I corresponded about this tool one month ago. I admit that when I looked through the mass of gear at first I thought it was some kind of crampon part, and then I realized and scrambled hastily to get it. Thanks goes to Jesse for the sale.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Aug 25, 2015 - 07:35am PT
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Stephane I just mailed you the Chock Wrench, Happy Birthday young man. When reading the beginning of your sentence, I started to cry, I was so moved... then came the end... and I understood that you have a stronger sense of Corsican humor than me. Hat off Marty!
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 25, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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Marty - the back of the tag is blank.
Enjoy the wrench. I will admit that I noticed it but didn't know what it was. From my motorcycle days, I thought it might be a shock adjust wrench as other things are mixed in that stash that are not climbing related. Well, I feel foolish and will resolve to actually spend time with my catalogs and Summit mags, but at least one of you masters have it safe and sound now.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
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So I received the Chock Wrench and WOW. I was expecting a aluminum object but instead it is an exact Chock Wrench replica, but made of plastic.
Hmmm. I am taking a guess here but I believe the plastic Chock Wrench is a prototype cut-out which was used in the creation process of the Chock Wrench. It could be material used for a precheck for the die stamp, or a sample shown between the buyer/artist and the tool creator. I feel like it is worth $1.00 but at the same time it could be priceless. Overall I wish it was the Aluminum item shown in the Summit magazine photos, and I paid good coin for it.
So maybe this is why the other collectors originally did not see the item in the lot, clear plastic. So very very close, but no Cigar!
Stephane, the final result here shows, I got served the Corsican Humor!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Aug 28, 2015 - 12:26am PT
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As a professional photographer I use to look at transparencies with a lot of care… However, as this Chock Wrench was just a mirage, I suddenly feel myself less old… Must I add that I love mirages…
Please Marty, could you send me a good photograph of this Chock Wrench near to the Ruhl Tool. These are the most iconic nut tools for me. In the meantime, I treasure the photograph above.
Hum... one more thing... Marty... you should have read the article by Paul Bunning until the end…
The tool is made of 1/8-inch thick Lexan Polycarbonate, a material which is nearly bullet proof. It is nearly weightless and is effortlessly carried and readily available if hung from a carabiner in the end hole and snapped into an equipment sling. Marty, I am well afraid that your Chock Wrench might be very close to be an ORIGINAL! To solve the problem is a poor consolation for me...
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2015 - 07:11am PT
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Thanks Stephane for unlocking this mystery. Yes the Chock Wrench is 1/8” thick. Looks like there are a few different color plastics that were used since the Summit Magazine Chock Wrench does not appear to be clear plastic. The plastic is tough yes, but it is bendy like a draftsman’s template. I can’t imagine this tool lasting a major battle against a very stubborn stuck chock. Another problem is that all of the holes on the Chock Wrench are made to fit a carabiner. A uneducated climber may use the 1974 Chock Wrench as a quick draw which a good fall will easily break it (not recommended). The 1979 Forrest Crag Dagger nut tool and 1977 Forrest Bam Nut tool can be used as a quickdraw.
So it looks like this Chock Wrench is original made of Lexan Polycarbonate. Totally awesome! I am very curious on the results of the usage of this tool. How many were created, how many were sold, and how many that were sold did not break while the climber was using it. It is hard to believe that this is a climbing tool. It really looks like a plastic draftsman’s drawing template.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Aug 28, 2015 - 08:16am PT
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Hey, Marty - saw these hangers on the anchors of an older route yesterday.
Never seen any like this before:
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 28, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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^^^those were made to thread a rope through and rappel off.
Cool design, even better thread!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Aug 28, 2015 - 08:53am PT
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^^^^^^^^
as Mucci pointed out. You gotta love the quick link in a rap hanger. We are doomed!
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 28, 2015 - 08:54am PT
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Interesting - I could tell from the OP's picture that it was clear plastic (you can see the cement floor through it). Which made me doubt even more that it was a piece of climbing gear.
There was a time (70-80's) when plexi glass was considered super strong and was being used as a sub for metal in a variety of different industries. Guess they thought so too.
Remember plexi glass skateboards and ramps?
You got a real treasure Karabin!!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2015 - 11:07am PT
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Every time I am on a airplane I look at the bolt hanger that is on each of the wings. Back in the mid 1990s I contacted McDonnell Douglas inquiring about getting one of these hangers for the museum. I got no leads and was unable to obtain one. Robert from the Olson Climbing Collection has been recently researching the airplane bolt hanger and contacted Boeing about it. He was told that the bolt hanger is not for public sale and if it was it would cost around $3000.
The airplane bolt hanger is used as a clip-in point for a person to assist during a water rescue, or other hazards. Robert also mentioned that it was used as a safety point for the engine somehow, which makes no sense to me. I thought the bolt hanger was used as a safety anchor for a maintenance person standing/working on the wing. But on every plane I have noticed that there is only one bolt hanger per wing. Anybody out there have connections to obtain airplane parts?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2015 - 11:55am PT
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"Can I take pictures on a commercial airplane?" The short answer is yes. The events of September 11, 2001 temporarily banned airline passengers from taking pictures in commercial aircraft, as of April 2010, there are no Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations that restrict still photographs on airlines.
While there are no existing FAA rules prohibiting still photography on airplanes, if your flash disturbs other passengers, flight attendants may ask you to refrain from using your camera. In such cases, federal regulations require that you follow the instructions of flight attendants during your flight.
But the problem is video cameras have no ruling from the FAA yet, so video cameras may be banned from the airplane company side, but not illegal in the FAAs guidelines. These days the phone is a video camera as well and this is why passengers may be asked to refrain from using their devices. Plus other passengers may feel uncomfortable when they do not wish to be in your video segment.
If taking photos and video was illegal on a airplane, they why do the stewardesses not mention that when they state that smoking is illegal on a airplane. Many photographers offer stock photography of airplane photos.
However taking photos of military aircraft may be an issue.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
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My friend Art called and mentioned that he was a airplane pilot for 40 years. He knew right away what the airplane bolt hanger is used for. On some planes there is one exit door over one wing, and on other planes there are two exit doors which lead onto the wings of the aircraft. The exit door is like a plug, it is tapered inward which prevents it to release outward. The door once opened first has to come into the aircraft to be turned, then to be thrown out of the exit door hole. Once the door is out of the way, it reveals a pocket on the top of the door frame which has a strap and clip pre attached to the plane. The strap is clipped to the bolt hanger on the wing, which gives passengers something to hold onto when first stepping out and standing onto the wing.
The painted bolt hanger is riveted or welded to the airplane wing, aligned to easily cut through the air. This is why the clip goes on the side of the hanger, instead of being in correct hanger alignment for the greatest load. Art never heard of photo taking being banned from aircrafts.
So now every time I get onto a plane and look at the wing bolt hanger, I will feel almost satisfied. I will be complete once I have one in the museum. Okay back to researching on how to obtain one of these gems!
This may also solve the Twilight Zone episode with William Shatner. It wasn't a monster on the airplane wing, it was a Yetti going for the clip.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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Just received a box last week, these hangers were in it:
Strap
Gerry
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 10, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
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I clip this one ever coupple of years..
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2015 - 09:20am PT
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Roots, Not sure if that bolt hanger is homemade but it looks like a cut piton. I have the same item with a "G" stamp but the eye is on the other side. Possibly an early Grivel piton, but I have two others the same shape with a "V" stamp (possibly Wally Vegors), and a "CRS" stamp. Hmmmm....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 11, 2015 - 09:30am PT
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Man, and I thought I was OCD! ;-)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 11, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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Marty- Those are Gerry blades with the one on the right likely thinner and a bit earlier in the production timeline hence a bit rougher in shape and finish. Readily available for modification into into funky bolt hangers.
Roots- Somebody was making those ring and strap hangers commercially because the work is pretty clean. They might have been sold as a masonry anchor apart from specific climbing use as I have seen them out in the world during my time as a builder. Plenty of home made ones around too.
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Sep 11, 2015 - 10:03am PT
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Sep 11, 2015 - 06:41pm PT
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Sep 11, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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^^^^^^
The first bolt in the photos from Switzerland looks like a Mammut ring bolt. Christain Griffiths used those on some hard FA's in the Boulder area in the mid to late 80's. The have a pin in the back which expands the end of the bolt when pounded in. They are a pain to replace.
The second photo has a bolt which looks like a plated, 10mm wedge bolt.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Sep 12, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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Here is a bolt/hanger I pulled out and replaced yesterday (with Fixe SS hardware). It is stamped, Altus made in Russia. Titanium I guess? The bolt is obviously very rusted.
I also removed a hanger stamped "Lucky".
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 14, 2015 - 08:37am PT
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Unused Gerry "Pop-Top" hanger:
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Sep 14, 2015 - 10:44am PT
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Devils Punchbowl County Park, Ca. On the Main Wall PB Proper. Looks Safe.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Sep 14, 2015 - 05:39pm PT
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Devils Punchbowl County Park, Ca. On the Main Wall PB Proper. Looks Safe.
Wow, that is still there? That needs some attention!
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Sep 14, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
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I replaced a couple of these a few days ago near Tahoe. I thought it said "Lucky" but it doesn't. Some strange characters and then "cKY". Also says "Spain" on it. No big deal, but amazing how many different hangers there are out there!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Sep 14, 2015 - 06:20pm PT
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Hey Marty,
Not sure if you're looking for the answer but I don't see that you ever got back to bhilden's suggestion up thread, regarding RK.
Rupert Kammerlander used to stamp his hangers RK. I am not sure of his Yosemite climbing experience, but he put up a lot of long free climbs at Pinnacles National Monument(now Park). Hmmm.
He was born in 1940 in Austria and climbed quite a bit in Yosemite, then died in 1978.
Arne
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Sep 15, 2015 - 12:21am PT
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Ney Grant,
yes, that Altus hanger is indeed titanium. It is probably ok for a protection bolt, but is a bit soft to have hardware in it, like a quick link, for rappeling.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 15, 2015 - 08:07am PT
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More hangers from Ed's kit:
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
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ionlyski - Yes I added the info to the hanger that it may be from Rupert Kammerlander, but I am not 100% sure that the hanger is his. Do you or anybody have a RK hanger which can be compared to the RK hanger from the Nose route? Thanks for the info on Rupert!
Ney Grant - LucKY hangers are from Spain. The hangers are usually stamped “LucKY and Spain” and the “uc” in the stamp is lower case letters which has a line over the “uc.” It is pronounced not LucKY but more like Looooky.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2015 - 03:07pm PT
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Roots - So the Ed Cooper bolt hanger is probably a modified Gerry horizontal piton, but the eye is on the left side. So proof is still needed with that hanger since the horizontal piton shown in the Gerry catalog the eye is on the right side.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Sep 15, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
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Thank you Marty - Ney
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Sep 15, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
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ionlyski - Yes I added the info to the hanger that it may be from Rupert Kammerlander, but I am not 100% sure that the hanger is his. Do you or anybody have a RK hanger which can be compared to the RK hanger from the Nose route? Thanks for the info on Rupert!
Do you have this hanger or one that looks like this?
Arne
edit-not my photo-taken from RK thread
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 16, 2015 - 08:46am PT
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Here's one I have not seen posted yet:
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
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Roots - That looks like a Doug Black hanger from Arizona mid 1960s
ionlyski - No I don’t have that shape Rupert Kammerlander hanger. It is beautiful! But here is a photo of the RK hanger from the Nose route. The stamps sure look the same. Even the letters ‘R’ and ‘K’ on both have a slightly longer right leg, which may suggest that he was right handed and he was striking the stamp more at the 4 o'clock position over hitting it dead center. So it looks like Rupert climbed the Nose and left his mark on it! Good job guys for unlocking the RK mystery! I am still not 100% positive it is for sure, but Rupert for now holds the best match.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 21, 2015 - 08:06am PT
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Thanks Marty - edited my pic caption to correct his first name.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2015 - 08:15am PT
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11worth
Trad climber
Leavenworth & Greenwater WA
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Sep 24, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
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These bolts and hangers are from Nirvana Ridge on Grand Central Tower at Peshastin Pinnacles near Leavenworth WA.
The route was put up by Fred Becky, Don Gordon and Frank Tarver in 1959.
I replaced bolts and hangers in 1990.
The rock is sandstone. (mostly short 1/4 inch split shank bolts!)
I wonder if Frank Tarver made the homemade hangers in his shop. He is well known for his stove leg pitons used on El Cap.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Sep 24, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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Nice collection!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 24, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
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Clipped this beauty llast sat ;)
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
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KONG - BONAITI
Mr. Giuseppe Bonaiti started creating products in 1830 around Lecco Italy. In 1977 the Bonaiti family reorganized and created the company KONG, a large scale factory to create products. In 1981 KONG started production.
KONG-Bonaiti Wide Eye hangers are created in Stainless Steel, Galvanized Steel, and Aluminum which is available in colors. Bolt hole sizes are available in 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm. In the late 1990s KONG created a new hanger and also named it the Wide Eye hanger. To get rid of the confusion KONG renamed the first Wide Eye hanger version the “Hanger.” The 2000 KONG catalog shows all bolts and hangers available in Stainless Steel only. It lists the KONG hanger in 8mm and 10mm sizes only. The KONG Wide Eye hanger is available only in 12mm.
In the early 2000s KONG developed a new set of key hole hangers and bolts for the key hole hangers named Fix Soleymieux and Wide Soleymieux. I played around with this set at one of the Outdoor Retailers shows but was never able to obtain them for the museum. I see now that the Hiking Shack may be able to get me the set. Sweet! KONG also creates Glue-in bolts.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
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Singing Rock
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2015 - 06:24am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 08:38pm PT
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Seattle Manufacturing Corporation - SMC
— from the SMC website: “Founded in 1967 as Seattle Manufacturing Corporation. SMC is a mountaineering and technical rescue brand that produces elite equipment. SMC designs and manufactures sport and rescue hardware to aircraft industry standards while remaining true to a heritage of excellence and innovation. Seasoned climbers and rescue personnel depend on the reliable performance of SMC gear in the most critical situations and demanding conditions around the globe.
……………………………………
Thanks to Scott Newell for filling in a few SMC catalogs I was missing, I can now show a more complete story for the SMC hangers. For many years the old version SMC hanger has been haunted with fatigue crack stories. Many climbers believe that a batch of the hangers were over tempered or something causing the hangers to be brittle and to crack easily. I am sure SMC tested the crap out of these hangers and found them to be fine. It was the way the hangers were installed by climbers that SMC claims, made the cracks.
The SMC Universal Hanger was first introduced in 1972. It is a nickel chrome-molly die-cut hanger with a chem-nickel finish. The SMC hanger shape looks similar to a Dolt hanger, but has a few differences. Available in two sizes 1/4 and 3/8.
In the 1978 SMC catalog, SMC mentions that people have come forward informing SMC about the hanger cracking issue. Looking at the SMC catalogs It appears that SMC decided to stand behind their tested hanger to fight the cracking issue, as they continued on selling the same nickel chrome-molly hangers.
I don’t have the 1981 SMC catalog but I do have the 1981 price lists. The cost for hangers is heavily increased in December 1981, which may show when SMC went from nickel chrome-molly hangers to stainless steel hangers.
— 1981 SMC January price list 1/4” hangers - $1.10 retail
— 1981 SMC December price list 1/4” hangers - $1.60 retail
The 1982 SMC catalog shows the new stainless steel SMC hangers. Hangers available in 1/4 and 3/8. In 1988 SMC adds the stainless steel 5/16 hanger.
I am amazed that SMC fought the cracking issue for 4 years instead of going to stainless steel back in 1978. The newer 1982 stainless steel SMC hangers are exquisite. At that time, the best hangers available in America. Eventually Metolius and Petzl take over, then FIXE arrives. The 1994 SMC catalog and price list does not include bolt hangers. I am not sure what year SMC discontinued the hangers.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2015 - 11:06am PT
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Roots - What I like about your Doug Black hanger is that it looks like it has a 1/4" bolt hole. All of the Doug Black hangers I replaced in the AZ mountains have 3/8 bolt holes.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
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Mad Rock
Mad Rock began in 2002 as a small climber owned and operated company that made innovative highly technical and affordable rock climbing shoes. The company is located in California but manufacturing is in Asia.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
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yosguns
climber
San Mateo, California
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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^Every climb needs a grab handle! LOL
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Roots - What I like about your Doug Black hanger is that it looks like it has a 1/4" bolt hole. All of the Doug Black hangers I replaced in the AZ mountains have 3/8 bolt holes.
It is a 1/4" hole. It came from an insignificant route. I'll look up the details and let you know.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
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Besides being a handle, what is the purpose of the grab handle?
Is it on the top of a route, on a adventure hiking route, on a aid route, hmmm...
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2015 - 06:41pm PT
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Oct 16, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
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Are hangers all that diff from angle irron with the sharp edges ground off?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 16, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Marty,
Besides being a handle, what is the purpose of the grab handle?
Is it on the top of a route, on a adventure hiking route, on a aid route, hmmm... It's meant as a joke.
It's on an old 5.5 route at the Pinnacles National Park called "Twinkle Toes Traverse".
When the rebolting was done, it was preserved (one of the bolts on the garage door handle was upgraded).
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2015 - 07:01pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
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Ah yes, I do have a Doug Black 1/4” hanger. This is one of two belay hangers that broke on a route named the Requiem 5.8 A3 on Pinnacle Peak AZ in 1974. The Requiem route is no longer listed in the guidebook, but the route used to start in Fear of Flying 5.10c and wrapped left around to Shalayly Direct 5.11c to the belay anchor. Route to summit either continued left to South Crack 5.3 or right back onto the Fear of Flying 5.10c route.
Three climbers were on the route; Dana Hollister rapped back down to the second rap ledge and waited. Roland Watson and Peter Noebels were still on the belay anchors when they ripped away from the rock (bolt failure) sending them 120’ to the ground. The climbers hit the rock a few times on the way down and Peter fell into and broke a palo verde tree on the ground. Dana down climbed and ran for help. Both broken climbers survived. Arizona Mountaineering Club assisted in the rescue. May 19, 1974.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Oct 21, 2015 - 12:02am PT
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Marty,
did the hanger or the bolt break in the accident? The hanger in the photo looks OK to me. The bolt looks like it has lost a few threads off the end.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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bhilden - yes two bolts broke causing the climbers to fall 120'. Dana Hollister returned to the route and chiseled out the remaining bolt that is shown. The hanger, bolt, and bent Chouinard carabiner and Bonaiti carabiner were kept together since the accident and donated to the museum in 2000. Not sure what happened to the other hanger.
Dana returned to Pinnacle Peak and attempted a solo ascent of the Requiem on February 1, 1975, and a SMC hanger failed on him causing a short fall. This time it was the hanger that broke and it was an old style SMC hanger breaking as early as 1975. Broke on body weight only. The yellow paint on the SMC hanger below is the missing part of the hanger shown in the photo that broke on Dana.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
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Two Doug Black hangers from the route "the Settlement 5.7" on Tom's Thumb in the McDowell Mtns AZ. These are the original belay and rap hangers placed by the route FA: 1967 Larry Trieber, Bill Sewrey and Don Witt. The right hanger shows Bill Sewrey's three dot stamp (just above the bolt). The first ascent was aided so the FFA goes to: 1974 Larry Trieber and Barbara Zinn
Hangers were replaced in November 2000
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Oct 30, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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Nice stuff Marty! I have some gear with the three dot stamp...glad to know who owned it.
How about this hanger? I received (2) of them along with a Holubar hammer on eBay a couple years ago. Actually now that I think about it, I hope I grabbed the correct hanger from the bin...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2015 - 09:25am PT
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Roots- That is the right hanger since I have the other one sitting right in front of me. Similar in design to a Leeper not Ed's work in my estimation.
No stamp on it to help identification but somebody must have seen one before these two showed up.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Oct 30, 2015 - 09:48am PT
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Thanks SG - I'm just about done with my organization of my collection but still a little shaky as records are one place and the gear is another, just need to connect the dots!
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Oct 30, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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Roots,
In answer to your above photo:
It's a MHE (Marc Hughston Enterprises) chromoly hanger. Circa mid-eighties. At first glance, they might appear similar to the Leeper hangers. A closer look shows that the bend is to the opposite side, making it easier for right-handed hammering. The sheet metal is thicker and heat-treated. It's a very strong hanger. The eye is bigger to accomodate two biners.
Around 1990, I got the dies from Marc and had 750 or 1000 made out of thick 304 stainless steel. Those were placed in northern Baja. The machinist subsequently lost or scrapped the dies, so there will never be another production run.
This quote from Marc:
I spoke to Ed Leeper many times circa 1986, and he gave me his recipe for the chromoly steel material thickness and Rockwell hardness number to shoot for. The Yates brothers encouraged me to make a hanger that two biners could fit into side by side, and that's why I made the hanger in that shape.
If you want additional info, search this site, "Marc Hughston" for the links.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2015 - 09:00am PT
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I know these hangers were produced by Marc Hughston, but I have always seen them listed as HME hangers standing for (I believe) Hughston Mountaineering equipment. For a while in the early 1990s Blue Water ropes was distributing these HME or MHE hangers, seen in the Blue Water ads on the back cover of the Climbing magazines. Good trivia here....which is it HME or MHE? I also have one of Juan’s stainless steel versions. Juan, do you have any written documents showing the hangers listed has MHE?
I have also seen these Marc Hughston hangers which are bent in the opposite direction (mirrored). Not sure who was making them.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Oct 31, 2015 - 11:54am PT
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Marty,
I can't say with certainty. My brief conversation with Marc was 25 years ago. I thought it was MHE, for Marc Hughston Enterprises.
Perhaps Marc would get a PM. You could ask him directly.
As to the "mirror image" / opposite bend, I could see how that is possible. As I understood from the machinist, the hangers were stamped with dies from flat sheet metal. Bending was the second step in the manufacturing process. It wouldn't have been too difficult to arrange the jig for an opposite bend. The other possibility is that you viewed a photo or slide that was flipped horizontally. Another question for Marc perhaps?
If you don't get an answer from him, you may be on the chase for that elusive or non-existent hanger to add to your collection!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2015 - 01:03pm PT
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See what I mean. I find the HME wordage in many places but it never says what it means. For years I called the HME hanger the Blue Water hanger until I saw a magazine writeup describing the hangers under the title Hughston Manufacturing. I thought to myself that the "M" is not for "Mountain" so what is the "E" stand for...Equipment? So maybe the HME is for Hughston Manufacturing Equipment? Hmmmm.......still a mystery.
Magazine writeup must be mid 1980s since the SMC hanger is listed as stainless steel and Metolius is not mentioned.
-Also Leeper not mentioned.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
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This Todd Swain hanger has a similar shape to the Hughston hanger but has a round carabiner hole.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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The HME hanger is awesome. I'd be stoked to clip one. It seems overly strong and the large 'biner hole is nice too.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
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Roots - I agree that the HME hanger is awesome!
I started climbing in the mid 1980s, and by that time the climbers from the 1960s and 1970s had ascended most of the rocks natural lines protecting them with Leeper and SMC hangers. The majority of the Leeper hangers were the bomber thicker ones, but every once and a while I would come across one of the older thin Leeper hangers with the tiny carabiner hole. I remember climbing a project route in Crown King AZ, hard sustained thin 5.11+ face and one of the clips was a thin Leeper hanger with a bail sling tied to it. What sucked was there was no room for the carabiner to fit in the hole with the bail sling in the way. I was screwed and the meter was running and then came the air time. The next route I climbed had a HME hanger that I clipped and I announced right there, “Now that is a quality bolt hanger.” At that time I still did not have a HME in my bolt collection so I stayed at that clip for a while checking out the “mystery” hanger. Eventually Metolius, Petzl and Fixe hangers started filling the store shelves, and climbing became more ability centered, over ability and wondering if the rusty bolt was really going to hold.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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Bandito hangers
The Banditos were a bunch of high school friends that became accomplished climbers by senior year. Bandito gang: Stan Mish, Dan Langmade, Glenn Rink, Jeff Bowman and Dave Hodson. They climbed heavily at the crags in the Phoenix AZ area, and in 1977 they started visiting the Navajo lands in Monument Valley and throughout the Southwest. The Banditos became known for their biker image, climbing while in costume, and their bolt hangers which had rude sayings stamped on them. Hangers were first created in 1978 stamped “BANDITO.” During the late 1970s another accomplished climber named Jim Waugh was sending all of the hard routes and was policing new bolting activity at the crags. The Banditos didn’t favor Jim’s authority and created a constant disturbance between the Bandito gang and Waugh. One night in 1978 the Banditos bolted the front door shut on Jim’s apartment. Jim for years denied the story but when he moved to Thailand mid 2000s, he stopped at my house first and donated the two Bandito front door hangers to the museum stating, “yes the story is true.”
The disturbance between the Banditos and Waugh could have started at the time Waugh started dating Mish’s girlfriend, or Waugh’s bolt chopping authority which the Banditos dubbed Waugh “Marshall Good” and created the “NO GUD” Bandito hanger. I believe the NO GUD hanger is a warning for Waugh to not touch a Bandito route, and not because the bolt is bad. I state this because the hanger made for Waugh’s front door is stamped “M. GUD” not (M. GOOD).
For the full Bandito story : Rock & Ice magazine #89. “The Legend of Los Banditos” by Cameron M. Burns. Cameron writes: “As the gossip spread, the legend of the Banditos blossomed. They went from being a few directionless young men interested in climbing and motorcycles, to a pack of leather-clad heathens dragging their women around by their hair and hosting LSD-laden orgies under the desert moon.”
For history notes: Bandito hangers first made either 1978 or 1979. Two M. Gud hangers were holding Waugh’s front door shut. Front door of Waugh’s apartment, not his house.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Couple items on the Banditos story:
I think Dave Hudson is the wrong last name. I believe it's Hodson. Used to run into him while out climbing in the early 90's, but then not for a bunch of years. But he came to the Sindicato Granitica event up in Prescott a few years ago. Was cool to see him. He was always (and still) a nice guy.
If I remember correctly, Dan Langmade's family had a machine shop where the Bandito hangers were punched out and stamped (after hours?).
Edit: Now that I look at the names... I think all those guys were at the Granite Mountain event.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2015 - 11:43am PT
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steelmnkey - Now that I put my glasses on and reread the R&I story it is Hodson not Hudson. Thanks for correcting it and I will edit it in the above story.
Stan Mish was a owner of the rock gym Vertical Relief in Flagstaff AZ in the 2000s. Now the gym is named the Flagstaff Climbing Center.
Dan Langmade told me a story of one of his expeditions where he came across a dead German man frozen in his tent. Dan retrieved a few pieces of gear and his partner spent some time peeling a north face sleeping bag off of the dead climber. I believe he had to use a stoves heat to separate the sleeping bag from the climbers face. One of the items is a Salewa fifi hook with handle which is in the Karabin Museum, listed as: "Salewa Fifi hook from dead German dude"
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The "NO GUD" stamp was just humor and not any sort of territorial pissing marker. In order to become a BANDITO BITD you had to climb something illegal on the rez.
My darling wife was the only gal to make the cut by climbing the second ascent of Chinle Spire with Dan. They topped out to find no rappel anchors since Eric Bjornstad and Fred Beckey while trying to free their rappel ropes had bounced the drilled piton anchors out of their holes in the soft cap stone! Dan and Mimi had to sacrifice a new 9mm rope to wrap the summit block and escape.
Dee Hodson may have also become a BANDITA but I never heard the initiation story.
GUD TIMES!!!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
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I made another attempt of obtaining the KONG keyhole style hanger set. On this round the AZ Hiking Shack totally came through obtaining the whole set minus one item, the Wide Soleymieux hanger (the item I want the most). KONG replied that they no longer make the Wide Soleymieux. Drats! Made from 2000-2015 and still not one in the museum. But nevertheless I landed the Fix Soleymieux and bolts so I am content…content…content….
“The possibility to remove the plate allows to eliminate the risk of use of the anchor point by unauthorized persons.”
Thanks again AZ Hiking Shack!!! Happy Holidays!!!
The reason for the taped thumb: I was drilling screw holes in climbing holds at the gym, and the drill bit skipped off of the hold. Good thing my thumb flesh was there preventing the rotating drill bit from hitting the table. I feared this happening on the many hundreds of holds I drilled and suddenly, ta da! Inspect the crater, wait for it to pool up with blood, show all of your friends, tape it up, and get back to climbing!
If anybody has an extra KONG Wide Soleymieux hanger, the Karabin Museum needs one!
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Marc Hughston
Trad climber
Dana Point
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Dec 29, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
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Hey, I just stumbled across this thread...cool! It was HME, for Hughston Mountain Equipment. I was talking with Ed Leeper, and I remember him giving me his specs and Rockwell hardness for the hangers. The Yates brothers said I ought to make the hole big enough to hang two biners side by side for the aid climbers, and I thought a bigger hole would make it easier to clip too. Glad to see you're carrying on. I like the stainless too. Best, Marc.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Dec 29, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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Hodson, Dee, Bill Vittel, Jaybro, Jay Schmidt, Jason Sands, Chris Pomeroy, and myself and a few others worked on the move of Desert Mountain Sports to 2824 Indian School after 16th street in 1987/8. Dave still had a harley then.
Jim's "front door" apartment I think was the only entrance. He had a big tree in front yard with bachar ladder and cup size (3 camalot) crack machine. It was near NW corner of papago park- thomas 40th street ish.
Langmade's dad had a sheet metal shop- I might have gone by the first time I met Dan.
We made a couple Al bandito hangers in '89 that were in the supes. Not bent well and kinda sub par all around.
and the Marshal thing originated because of things like chopping bolts on Rhythm and Blues as Jim believed you could just down climb the 5.6 chimney instead of leaving a hole. There were always bolts up there 1984 and later.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
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Thanks Marc for locking in the history! HME Hughston Mountain Equipment.
rick d - I climbed Rhythm and Blues at Troon Mtn back in the early 1990s and there were no bolts on the top. I did however retrieve a stuck WC Friend cam unit on the summit which had a bent trigger bar. I fell at the crux of the route blowing my flash attempt but sent the route on my second go. Great pumpy route which I thought was harder than the guidebook rated it.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
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Ed Leeper
The more Leeper catalogs and advertisements I read, the more I see another vintage climbing character who has heavily left his mark on the climbing world. Ed Leeper has a way of showing his product, explaining why it is the finest, gives ideas how to improve it further, and gives his opinion of the other companies that have directly copied his creations. I will say that every item Master Craftsman Ed Leeper created was of the finest quality in shape, function, and in cost. The history I know about Ed Leeper is that he lived and manufactured his products in Boulder Colorado and starting making climbing gear in 1962.
The 1962 Leeper bolt hangers had small carabiner holes and were thin, cut from .063 alloy steel. The hanger was also more square in shape (pointed) under the carabiner hole. In 1964 a additional cut was added under the carabiner hole making the hanger front more rounded which prevents injury if a climber falls into the hanger. However the 1964 Leeper hangers still had small 9/16” carabiner holes and were thin .063 alloy steel. In the late 1960s the hanger carabiner holes became larger and also the steel was thicker to .080.
In June 1972 Ed Leeper stopped manufacturing hangers stating he was creating 12,000 per year. But sometime in the mid 1970s Leeper reintroduced his hangers and this time the metal was even thicker to .090. In the 1980 Leeper catalog it mentions a batch of over tempered hangers in 1975 -1978. Leeper hangers were available in two bolt hole sizes, 1/4” and 3/8.” Over the years I have replaced hundreds of old bolts and hangers and I have come across many Leeper hangers with 5/16” bolt holes. But Leeper catalogs only show 1/4” and 3/8” available. Possibly these 5/16” hangers were special order through Ed or climbers were personally redrilling the hanger bolt holes? But still I have a few mint condition 5/16” Leeper hangers that are factory perfect. Hmmmm
The 1982 Leeper catalog shows that Leeper hangers have been discontinued. In later Leeper catalogs and Leeper advertisements in climbing magazines the wordage states Leeper hangers were made up to 1984. Maybe the hangers stopped being made in 1982 and surplus was distributed till 1984?
“95,000 Leeper bolt hangers made between 1962 and 1984.” That sounds like a lot but I bet these days the company Fixe Hardware in one year alone stamps out over 100,000 of just their standard hanger.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:37pm PT
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Here's a homemade hanger from a route at Pinnacles National Monument, er Park. I don't know who made them, but am following up a potential lead.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2016 - 07:41am PT
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After a year of not wanting to pay the high ebay price for the Keith titanium hanger and bolt set, I paid the $35.00. From China, all titanium and very lightweight. I wonder if these hangers would be good for the Thailand sea cliffs? However 10 bolt route $350.00, whip snap whip snap.......
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Found this below Dolt Tower recently. Could have been from Roher's rappel route. Hopefully not from the anchor those three guys pulled when their haulbag cut loose in the 70's.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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It looks like it has the small hole for the old carabiners.
Marty awesome thread. PM me your address I have something for you.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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A very thorough thread, but the one glaring omission I see is Metolious hangers. I don't recall when they hit the market, either late 80's or early 90's but at the time they were the best US made hanger out there with a large clip in and a well rounded shape that was rope and climber friendly. They were also the first to my knowledge to offer hangers that were coated to allow them to blend into the rock.
There were also as far as I know the first to offer an integral hanger/lowering option with their extra thick hangers with radiused opening.
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Evdawg
Trad climber
Sacramento/S. Tahoe
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Interesting thread so far. Does anyone know what hanger this is? It was recently placed at one of our local coastal crags in Humboldt County, CA by an unknown individual.
It is odd because the bolt fits inside the loop, as opposed to on the side like most hangers (i wish I had a top angle photo). Makes me wonder how they hammered it in.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Found this below Dolt Tower recently. That's probably an original Nose hanger, there were a good number of those (most were broken off, just a fragment of the hanger along with the bolt) on the first half of the Nose when we were doing replacement in 2000 or so. They were always coupled with a 3/8" Star-Dryvin bolt.
We just removed and patched most of them, there were typically other bolts/anchors nearby, or good pro.
As far as I've been told, the hanger that broke in the infamous Rohrer rap route accident was a Dolt hanger, so it wouldn't have looked anything like that.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
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evdawg - that is possibly a Petzl roof hanger.
Sorry that I have been absent from the thread. It's comp season again in Arizona and I am already sending!!! Oh yeah!!! My mind and muscles are on the prize! QCBC then the Beta Boulder Blast. Then hopefully a citizens comp during the summer OR show, then Flagstaff roof rally in September. Bring on the face paint! At the gym we are hosting a local Youth USA Climbing rope comp this weekend so if I am not in the comp, I am probably the setter and MC for it. Its tough in Arizona to keep the zebras off of the stage!
I believe Metolius hangers were first made in 1989. I will see Doug Phillips in the summer and that already is one of my questions for him. Doug is Metolius's master designer.
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Epcclimber
Big Wall climber
Cincinnati, ohio
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Gerry Aluminum hanger removed from a climb at Red River Gorge yesterday.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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^^^^^^^^
This Star Dryvin at Red River was not put in correctly. If you look at the photo you should see a ring underneath the 'star' bolt which are the two sleeves which provide the holding power for the bolt. It looks to me that in this photo the sleeves were put in underneath the hanger. This incorrect installation makes the bolt very weak with regard to pullout strength and most likely shear strength as well.
Did you find the two sleeves underneath the hanger?
BTW, we see this a lot at Pinnacles National Park. It's pretty alarming that people can't figure out how to put in a bolt correctly.
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Epcclimber
Big Wall climber
Cincinnati, ohio
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Apr 27, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
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I'm unsure how it would have been put in differently given the hole size of the hanger, neither the bolt nor the hanger have been manufactured since I've been alive though so I'll have to take your word for it! Besides the improper installation I think being 1/4"er that is 50 years old with an aluminum hanger might have also led to it being pretty weak! Luckily despite being on a very popular route it was seldom fallen on. I worked at it with a wonder-bar for several minutes but surprisingly couldn't pry the bolt itself out, eventually it broke off from working it back and forth. The sleeves (rust glob) were visible behind it.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Apr 27, 2016 - 11:47pm PT
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^^^^^^
Yup! With Star Dryvins sometimes they can get so rusted that the nail just will not come out. That looks like the case here.
At the Pinnacles National Park we had one first ascentionist who thought it was a good idea to glue the nail into the sleeves. Unfortunately, he put up a lot of routes in the 1980's. The only way to get those bolts out is to chop them and drill a new hole. What a mess.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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October 15 2016 gear swap at the AZ Hiking Shack. I noticed a small red bag on the AMC booth table which was selling for only $15. When I poured it out the first thing I saw was a Dolt Step-On hanger. It is Wally’s small bolt kit from 1959. Also there are a few Gerry “Pop-Top” hangers and a aluminum hand drill. Wally had a larger bolt kit for sale as well and when I poured that out there was a second Dolt Step-On hanger sitting there. One has a 1/4 bolt hole and the other 3/8. Other hangers are thin Leeper and Doug Black ring rap hanger c1964. I love the square head steel bolts. Both of these bolt kits belong in a museum!
Another gem that was on the table was two mid 1940s Fritsch & Cie Zurich wafer pitons, a 1940s Holubar hammer and 1940s Holubar hammer holster. I was able to hold the items but they were already sold to another friend of Wally’s.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 19, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
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Self-drills and aluminum drill holder / setting tool - pretty old school.
Hard to remove when placed well also.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Nov 19, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
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Harding from Mt. Conness. Flip Flop and Fly.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
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Flip Flop - The opening story on this thread shows that when putting up the Nose route Harding used store bought hangers and the other hangers were made by Bill Dolt. Harding wasn't known for making his own hangers. So what you have could have been placed by Harding, but "maybe or maybe not" be made by Harding.
However you have an awesome artifact!!!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 19, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
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this really cool hanger is on Screaming Meanie on Rogers Rock. daks seems to be made from aluminum
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 07:11am PT
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New museum display at the Phoenix Rock Gym
The old climbing store space at the Phoenix Rock Gym has been sitting for a while, so I decided it would be a perfect location for some of the museum trinkets. Successfully I have found more glass patio doors to create the display with, which will be easier to keep the gym chalk dust out of the display. The display is 7’ tall x 13’ in length and will hold half of the bolting equipment (around 1000 items) in the Karabin Climbing Museum. First order of business is to do some sticker repairs on the floor so I got my friend Summit Cox to assist in the sticker peeling sticking frenzy fun. The sticker floor was originally created in 2006 for the AZ Cliff Hanger climbing store. Thanks to the many climbing manufacturers for their sticker support!
In the gym the store space is becoming the Lizard Lounge/ Karabin Climbing Museum. I am totally psyched to have a place to show the museum items to the public. So phase one of the display is complete! Many of these display panels I put together while my kids were in diapers 17 years ago, and the display was then dragged from one storage unit to another until now! The display so far is comprised of hand drills, hooks, hammers and some of the bolt hangers. The second half of the display will show another 1000 bolt hangers. Fun! Thanks to the many people who donated to the museum to make this display happen.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 07:16am PT
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Already I see a few edit items in the museum photos. Some of the Stubai and Salewa hammers date back to the mid 1950s. The Bill Sewrey square head hammer dates back to 1955 or later. Still looking for a date of when Doug Black first started making gear.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 11:12am PT
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Thanks DMT!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
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Over the holiday I brought home a few more beer cans from my moms house. The four shown in the photo are from around 1960-1961 era when flat top cans were going to Pull Tabs, or Pop Tops. The Gerry bolt hanger was referred to as the Pop Top hanger since they looked similar to the pull tabs on the soda and beer cans. Shown in the photo is a late 1950s pipe bracket, a Gerry bolt hanger and a can pull tab. There were many designs to the pull tabs during this time.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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GCF - Yes I believe you asked about Metolius earlier on this thread. I talked to Doug Phillips in August but have not had time to dial in the correct history. But since you give another request I will throw this out here for now. Yes Metolius created the perfect bolt hanger for its time which was around 1989 time, but I believe a similar type shape Petzl hanger was being sold in the USA around 1985. I know I have an early Metolius catalog which I will share in a bit.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 01:40pm PT
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I believe Metolius started in 1987 but I need to look into that date. Here shown is Metolius first catalog c1988 and the only bolt shown is the Metolius Bolt, which I call the Honker bolt since there is a awesome 5.12 route on Mount Lemmon AZ called Honker that Hidetaka Suzuki sent but I could not get free. In the book description Eric Fazio Rhicard even states "then climb right to big honking bolts." Good times!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 02:02pm PT
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In the 1991/1992 Metolius catalog it shows the Rap Hanger and SS and Environmental bolt hanger. On the cover is super star climber Jim Karn. So I have a gap in catalog years not having the 1989 or 1990 information so Doug is needed to fill that in. Doug mentioned that he thought the first hanger came in 1989, but the rap hanger was created before the SS and environmental hangers were introduced. So maybe 1989 rap then 1990 smaller hangers?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 02:16pm PT
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Lets not forget that bolt hanger stickers also count as hangers!
:)
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2017 - 12:04pm PT
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Found this recently on ebay. Lixada hanger and bolt from China
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2017 - 04:03pm PT
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New for 2017, Fusion now offers their hanger in black color.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
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This is a hanger that was replaced by CASA, Climbing Association of Southern AZ. After they replace the old hangers they flatten them and cut a groove on the back side to serve as a bottle opener. Stamped CASA
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2017 - 04:08pm PT
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Climb Tech hangers that have two different stamps
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
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New for 2017 FIXE has added a "UP" word and arrow to their hangers just above the bolt hole. But not always is the bolt hanger placed in the up position. In the rock gym, for course setting the load goes upward so the up arrow has to face downward to be in the correct load pulling position. I figure if a person needs the hanger to instruct them on how the hanger is properly placed, they probably should not be placing the bolt for others to use in the first place.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 22, 2017 - 08:34pm PT
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Gotta love the Climbing Association of Southern Arizona (CASA) for all the bolt replacement and other service projects they have taken on. Rising from the ashes of the wholly corrupted SACC to do great work for the climbing community. Very creative use for all those old stainless steel SMC hangers!
I'll have to snag one next time I am in Tucson. Could be one of mine. LOL
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
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At the summer Outdoor Retailers show I found a few more new bolts and hangers from a company located in Taiwan named King Snaps. All of their gear has no manufacturers mark on it.
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BEK
Mountain climber
Switzerland
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Aug 16, 2017 - 11:32am PT
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Hello
RK could be for Reinhard Karl
Reinhard Karl (1946–1982) – Freeclimber; he was the first person wich climbed the northface of the eiger in 1.5 day(1969); he also climbed as the first person the grade VII(UIAA) on route (Pumprisse, 1977). He was the first german on Mount Everest (1978)
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Aug 16, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
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Someone posted on Mountain Project that they just replaced 90 ClimbX hangers and most were cracked - after one year. Pretty stunning failure rate that may (or may not) have to do with cheap offshore steel or mfg process. I would be concerned with that shiny King Snap stuff too.
Marty - I love your outdoor show summaries and product information. Thanks so much for taking the time to post the information!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 16, 2017 - 03:54pm PT
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Marty, S. Grossman ID'd that janky hanger/bolt combo as an old school masonry anchor
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Rustie
climber
Coeur d\\\\\\\'Alene
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Aug 16, 2017 - 06:50pm PT
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Damn Martyy!
I thought that, by now, you would have been able to get professional help for this Hanger thing........
But, at the risk of encouraging both our obsessions, a few comments (you already have all my "historic" (aka dangerous) pieces......
That "kidney shaped", steel, Stubai, biner was known as a "MARWA".....an acronym for Wastl Mariner, the original Austrian mountain rescue ace (Longi-Eigerwand), who developed it for karabiner brake lowers. I did my first, over the shoulder, "abseils" on this baby ..........yuuuuckkkkkk
Those examples of electro galvanic decay could be very useful for some dedicated climber/engineer working on the nobility of metals.......as in coastal and industrial areas.
An interesting development in hanger design was when folks like Dolt (an accomplished metallurgist) changed from the bent-strip design to the present angle iron ("stand-on?) type......which, we are told, is much more strong and reliable, nor exerting an outward-levering force.
Perhaps the mental processes (and capacities?) of climbers could shed some light on our progress through the tool-making neolithic, and give us some hope for humanity in these difficult times..........
Thanks a lot........keep on truckin........
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2017 - 07:24pm PT
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thebravecowboy - It is obviously a masonry anchor. The question is, what was that masonry anchors intended use and who is the manufacturer?
BEK - I will add your RK info to the unknown “RK” list.
Jeremy Ross - I never thought of it that way. Yes “Snaps” is not necessarily a good name for a climbing gear line.
Ney Grant - The ClimbX hanger problem sucks! Thanks for the outdoor show props!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
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The awesome Rusty shoe box of treasures!!! Fantastic items!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 16, 2017 - 07:38pm PT
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As the anchor in question clearly is not designed for climbing use why the reset? Folks have plenty of reasons to want to attach all manner of things to masonry. Way BITD anything that seemed reasonable for the intended use was fair game hence Eric's use on this climb as an aid placement. This anchor has the same basic design as a Star Dryvin with a lead shield to provide the bite for the nail that is missing in the photo.
Hang a ring, hang some chain, hang a trellis or give a vine a chance...
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
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Steve - When I go to the hardware store I don't see anchors that are designed like that. So to me that particular anchor had a intended purpose. I know it was not necessarily intended to be used as a climbing anchor, but I am just putting the question out there of what its actual use was, and who was the manufacturer. To say it is just a simple masonry anchor does not satisfy my personal curiosity.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2017 - 06:32am PT
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Ashby Robertson posted this on Facebook yesterday and linked me to it this morning. Thanks Ashby for showing proof and answering the mystery!
"An excellent fastening for guide wire on sign installations, outdoor radio equipment, etc"
Mfg - Star
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
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FIXE Hardware
Located in Spain. Kevin Daniels through the years as been a HUGE supporter of the Karabin Climbing Museum keeping up with the ongoing changes with FIXE hardware bolting equipment. Many big THANKS THANKS THANKS to Kevin!!! Recently he found a few more items that were on my FIXE wish list. Besides bolting equipment FIXE manufacturers everything including Cams, Pitons, Climbing Holds, Jewelry etc etc.... Out of all of the bolting equipment presently in the museum, FIXE hardware has the largest selection. All of these hangers are different even though some may look the same. Manufacture stamps changed through the years, color changes, etc.
The following three display boards I put together back in 1999/2000 when I was a home husband raising my two sons James and Nicholas. During their naps I was either doing house cleaning or working on the display boards.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 03:00pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 03:01pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 03:02pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 05:31pm PT
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At the Summer Outdoor Retailer show in Salt Lake City I met Yip Liu - the designer of the Keith titanium bolt and hanger.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
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Nudge - Thanks for Nudging me! I have not heard of that hanger yet. I love new stuff and will look into getting one for the museum. Thanks for the post!!!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Alberta climbers used a lot of homemade aluminum hangers in the 80's. Some of these hangers had holes that would only accept small profile biners. We learned to keep some small biners on our rack todeal with the situation
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2017 - 06:52am PT
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Yes the CMI hanger is a monster! Available in colors gray and orange. Years ago I installed one of these CMI hangers to use as a ground anchor for a slackline over my friends pool.
From CMI website - "This may look like other bolt hangers you've seen, but our clever design achieves a 10,000-pound MBS in a lightweight package. One-quarter inch thick steel finished in an aesthetically pleasing grey. Takes up to a 5/8" bolt.
Size: 3.25" x 2"
Weight: 0.45lbs
Breaking Strength: 10,000 pounds
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Podunk Climber
Trad climber
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Geezus Marty,
Glad this thread came up this morning. It took me over two hours to get through it. Thanks for the history lesson.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Ditto, Podunk! Marty, you've probably spent a significantly large hunk of your life just making display boards!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2017 - 04:34pm PT
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Podunk and Don - Thanks for the props! Presently putting together a display board of old ice screws and then starting 19 display boards of nuts! To me the display boards are works of art!
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Chad_E
climber
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Sep 10, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
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Marty
I may have missed it buried in the great info here. Do you have examples of both an aluminum Petzl hanger and an aluminum Metolius hanger? Classic shape. I've seen both in the wild and was pretty surprised.
Chad
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 08:17pm PT
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Chad_E - I have never heard of Metolius making hangers out of aluminum. The Metolius hangers are shown two pages back on this thread, post # 225. I have many different Petzl hangers but I have not shown them yet on this thread. A few of the Petzl hangers are made of aluminum as you mentioned, yes classic shapes for sure! I will dig out the Petzl display board and show them this weekend!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
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The CMI orange hanger came in the mail today. Psyched!!! Now I have the set of two!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2017 - 09:01am PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2017 - 09:02am PT
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randy88fj62
Trad climber
LA, CA
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Oct 26, 2017 - 06:02pm PT
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Not sure if all the Petzl hangers have been accounted for. In the late 80’s (estimating 1989) Petzl released stainless steel 8mm hangers to be used in conjunction with spits. This style of bolt has been replaced with better technology but the hanger should be noted in this thread.
For reference I have included Petzl’s aluminum hangers since they also use the same spits with the same diameter holes. A standard powers 3/8 bolt can be disassembled and reassembled with these hangers.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2017 - 03:41pm PT
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I stopped by REI today and picked up a eno hammock hanger for the museum! 20kn and polished chrome finish!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 24, 2017 - 11:36pm PT
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MERRY CHRISTMAS
Hey, Marty, I was wondering if you or any one else remembers the old thin gauge (Quarter in hole?) SMC hangers from around 1978(?) that may have had a bad batch or two?I think that by 1980 they were better?
Clint ?!
This?? ! No of course not
, this is always thought it to be -old home made- , un-finishedVery Sharpe edges
yes was just looking back for some mention.
in your travels did you ever climb in Saranac Lake NY, or know the origin of the 4 bolts on Baker Mt? For some reason I seem to think that Todd Eastman went to Paul Smiths?
Thnx for the link.
Marty covered all models of the SMC hangers in his post upthread on October 7, 2015:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2638012&msg=2698768#msg2698768
There are some bolts of that late 70s vintage, just 40 years later, it would be fun to ask Al Jolley, if he gnows who put them in . . . . . . ,the,climb,I,did?.
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unlocked gait
Gym climber
the range
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Dec 25, 2017 - 09:57am PT
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every run-on climb needs a comma
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 26, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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Nice large ring bolt!
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Tfish
Trad climber
La Crescenta, CA
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Dec 27, 2017 - 10:52am PT
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Ice screw cemented in at Stoney Point
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 28, 2017 - 05:24am PT
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Got a question about some specific bolts that I have always wondered about.
The year was 1980-1981 and the bolts were belay anchors at the station at the end of the first traverse right off the Muir (top of P16?). This is a photo from that belay:
All of the hangers looked like they were L-shaped aluminum, and they were all broken where you clip in. We ended up slinging the pinnacle there for a belay, which was kinda scary because as I nailed up to the belay some my pins down below fell out.
Does anyone remember these hangers? What they hell were they? Who replaced them?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
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PETZL
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 30, 2017 - 02:32pm PT
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Sierra Ledge Rat,
Got a question about some specific bolts that I have always wondered about.
The year was 1980-1981 and the bolts were belay anchors at the station at the end of the first traverse right off the Muir (top of P16?).
All of the hangers looked like they were L-shaped aluminum, and they were all broken where you clip in. We ended up slinging the pinnacle there for a belay, which was kinda scary because as I nailed up to the belay some my pins down below fell out.
Does anyone remember these hangers? What they hell were they? Who replaced them? Those were Yvon's homemade hangers. They were still on the traverse when I did it in 1998.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 30, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
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Clint, that photo of the YC hanger was not what I saw.
The ones that we saw were stupid L shaped hangers. When you loaded the hanger the force acted to lever the bolt out of the hole. Like pulling nails with a claw hammer.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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Maybe a Gerry Pop-top hanger? Maybe the hanger is shown on previous post on this thread?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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May 31, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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A few from a little accent piece in my shop:
Kris
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2018 - 10:39pm PT
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Scrubber - Great relics! This pound in bolt item you show, Is it possible you can pull it off of the display and get a picture of the overall item? I am curious how it locks into the rock. By chance do you know who made it?
Thanks for sharing your treasures!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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I know that I have created some very large amazing climbing gear displays already, but for some reason I feel this little display board by itself sits up there with the greats! I felt goosebumps the whole time while putting this art piece together. There is soooo much HUGE history on this board!!!! I feel totally Blessed that God found a way to include me into the Yosemite story.
I recently added the Yosemite Relics to the Karabin Museum display at the Phoenix Rock Gym.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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These are pictures of the hammers that are at the bottom of the bolting display at the Phoenix Rock Gym. I added a few more hammers recently. Viewing from display right to left.....
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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Scrubber - I found one of your older pics that shows the bolt.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 7, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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Two YC hangers from the Sentinel
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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my only bolt stories all are about happy meetings with 1/4" spinners, but I had a pal who was on Squamish and putting up Uncle Bens- named after the cheap brand of beer, and then flattening the cans and hammering the belay bolts through the cans
edit: Just saw your great museum photos--I remember clipping those Harding bolts on the WFLT--I was so happy they were there!
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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The squared off end of the pound-in hanger is slightly larger than the 1/4" rod stock that the the thing id formed from. This allows a compression (interference) fit into the hole. It seems to be made from the same material as euro soft-iron pins. No idea on maker.
I had never seen one on a route until actually noticing that there are three of them right here in Squamish on a route called Tantalus Wall.
K
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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Bruce posted a pic of this hanger years ago and recently he donated one to the museum. This hanger remains unique as it was first made in 1961 and has not been copied. Grivel added a eyelet to their piton and Leeper added a eyelet to the Z-Chocks, but this is the only bolt hanger that I have seen that is created with a eyelet. Thanks Bruce Hildenbrand!
from Hidden Pinnacle - Bob Smith and Ed Sutton 12/1961.
Pinnacles National Park, CA
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2019 - 05:10pm PT
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Feb 27, 2019 - 09:42pm PT
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Marty,
about those Japanese ring bolts. I found one of those(one on the right) on the North Face of the Eiger in 1986. For the life of me I cannot find it, but if I do I will send it to you for your museum.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2019 - 06:43am PT
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Bruce - Totally awesome thank you so much! The other ring bolt that was available at that time was the Mammut ring bolt.
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