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DAN DUANE
climber
SAN FRANCISCO, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 29, 2015 - 10:23am PT
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I've been hearing noise about guys not liking Grigris for safety reasons. Not that they fail, but rather something about their design encouraging amateur-operator error. Can somebody fill me in? I get the idea that the release lever is set up to operate in the same direction/vector as the brake on an ATC, such that a belayer's reflex, in trying to stop a fall, might be to yank the lever the wrong way. But is there something else I ought to know about?
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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May 29, 2015 - 10:37am PT
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I still have my original Gri Gri 1. The main thing to know about it is that it is not a GUARANTEED braking device. It is a braking ASSIST device. I have experienced ropes, especially new, skinnier ropes, slide right through under body weight.
The Gri Gri 2 is supposed to be better, but I would never trust it. Always keep your brake hand on the rope.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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May 29, 2015 - 10:41am PT
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Don't like it or the Cinch. IMHO they are lazy and if/when the day comes when the user that is accustomed to that device has to use an ATC, they might f'up. For that same reason, I do not use auto-locking carabiners either.
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DAN DUANE
climber
SAN FRANCISCO, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2015 - 10:56am PT
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To Brian More: yep, same Dan Duane.
And thanks, fellas. Much obliged. It's been on my mind because I'm climbing with a belayer (my 12-year-old daughter) who weighs half what I do. Yes, directional anchors, tied to trees even on the ground, etc ... and she's a very focused and responsible kid. We're only doing routes on which a leader-fall would be a surprising fluke, but it's still a heavy burden, belaying one's father. I did it myself for years. In that setting, there are things I like about the Grigri, assisting her in making the catch. But ... other things I'm wondering about.
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SeaClimb
climber
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May 29, 2015 - 11:12am PT
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Regarding using a braking assisted device with your daughter, this is the only way to go...Having her manage large forces at 12 with an ATC is asking a lot from her.
Just focus on her using proper belaying technique and not "relying" on the cam to do the work (it will, 99.9% of the time).
I also brought Metolius "poop tubes" to the crag, and filled them on the spot as ballast. They are durable and light. Empty the rocks when you leave.
I took whippers with absolute confidence on my son when he was as young as 11, and very small and light...
One other point, is to stay verbally engaged with your child. Lots of "watch me". "This looks hard". "I'm really pumped"...etc. It makes it harder for them to zone out...
I miss the days of climbing with him. These days, he'd rather go cragging with his buddies, but we still share a rope at times. Very cherised...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 29, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
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When you know the way broadly you will see it in all things.
There will always be a new device or fancy piece of equipment that can be improperly used - the impetus isn't to race to ban or limit their use as they show up but to better understand the systems of checks and balances that are standard and have helped keep us safe since the 1800's.
this is a terrible event, one of many that have happened in conjunction with a Gri Gri, however even a traditional belay device would have failed the climber had it not been properly clipped to his harness.
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bbbeans
Trad climber
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May 29, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
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personally I would rather be belayed with a grigri than an atc, since if something happened to my belayer, I would hopefully still be on belay.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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May 29, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
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You know, every two months there's a GriGri hate thread on UKClimbing. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with GriGris, just that some folk, even into adulthood, haven't acquired enough motor skills to use anything with a lever...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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May 29, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
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I grew up on old skool belay devices. Figure 8's, belay plates.
So when I first met Grigri, in the 90's, I'd kept myself and my partners alive for over 20 years with more basic tools.
So do I "NEED" this new device to keep myself and my friends alive? No.
Still, I gave the thing a fair shake and used it all the way up Excalibur on El Cap. I never could get over the discomfort. Went all the way to my marrow practically.
I have never used one again, and it's been another 20 years.
My partners still climb with me.
Did I mention heavy or expensive?.......
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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May 29, 2015 - 12:59pm PT
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My big beef with the GriGri is not the device, as it is fine piece of hardware when used correctly by an experienced operator, but rather with the mentality it attracts amongst the inexperienced Noobs.
Years back we had a crowd go out to a crag and one guy asked me to lead a 5.8 route so his girlfriend could have something easy'ish for her to climb. Before I know it he is clipping a gri-gri to HER and telling her that it will basically do all the important stuff automatically. So I really ended up soloing the route with a trad rack on (I kick myself over letting it happen, oh well).
A grigri requires more training and experience than an ATC, not less. Noobs get setup with them as an insurance policy against their obvious lack of experience when that is even more dangerous than acknowledging their ineptitude.
A big issue with using a grigri is that there are common human failure modes that can result in disaster if used improperly. A normal human response is to clamp down in a panic, which is great with an ATC. With a grigri this response can result in the operator holding the cam open if they are feeding out slack improperly.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 29, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
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I don't use grigris much but I did when climbing with my then preteen daughter. A couple of thoughts: Use a relatively thicker rope for a more consistent lockup.
A second issue I'm aware of is the lowering system... in my experience ... is very sensitive to how far you pull the lever back. Too far and you drop the person. I'd at least do a lot of practice lowers in a safe setting before going out to the crags.
Finally there is the issue of paying out rope rapidly... such as when leader is clipping. Depending on the rope the device will often lockup right when the leader needs slack. What I've seen many people do is pinch the locking mechanism closed (or you could say pinch it to keep it open) with the break hand while pulling rope thru with the left hand. This works for feeding out slack rapidly but disengages the auto lock feature momentarily. Petzl warns not to use this system but I still see many belayers doing it. I think there may even be a film out there demonstrating the dangers.
Edit:see Brian's petzl link above and click thru to their video.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 29, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
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Whatever the pros and cons of grigris in experienced hands (and there are sport climbers---eg Sharma---who have never used anything but), the question here has to do with the proper device for a young person, say around 12.
People seem to focus on possible weight mismatches and correcting them with a ground anchor or counterweight, but just as important is the fact that children's grip strength may not be up to the demands of holding adult impact loads with a tubular device. Such devices are force multipliers, and may not produce adequate braking forces when a child's grip is what they have to work with.
The gri gri was the original solution to this problem; now there are quite a few alternatives. Ideally, you want something that will neutralize low grip strength but not introduce new failure modes, and the gri gri is probably not at the top of the list for this.
Things to consider: The DMM Grip, http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/dmm-grip-belay-device, if it provides enough braking force for a kid, might be the best option. I don't think the Edelrid MegaJul and Mammut Smart are good choices for kids, although they do provide "assisted braking," because they also require special motions for pumping slack to the leader, motions which can lead to belay failure if they are invoked at the wrong moment. The CT Alpine Up (which I think is better on all counts anyway) is probably a better choice for kids because of its more natural operation.
A new Gri-gri competitor with at least some advantages is the the Camp Matik (which probably replaces the Edelrid Eddy if you want a panic-proof lowering lever)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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SeaClimb
climber
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May 29, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
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RGold...
totally agree with you...hence my comment "...Having her manage large forces at 12 with an ATC is asking a lot from her."
kids' hands are not exactly rope clampers...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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May 29, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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I'm not sure having a 12 year old belaying a full size man is such a great idea, no matter what the device.
Of course there are 12 yr olds who can and HAVE handled it.
But as a general rule I would keep 12 yr olds between a couple of solid, competent adults, and out of the critical life saving positions.
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SeaClimb
climber
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May 29, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
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case by case basis...i'd take my boy over 90% of adults out there...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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May 29, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
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Took a rock to my face when my climbers foot hold broke off unexpectedly. I held the fall with the ATC but the 'what if' convinced me to get a grigri. Use them both and like the added protection the grigri gives should I get knocked out.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 29, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
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It's a tough call. Operator error is less likely with a gri-gri but certainly not impossible.
I made my worst mistake belaying while using a Gri-Gri. I managed to thread it in backwards and when My partner sat back to be lowered... SURPRISE!!! he quickly descended about 3 feet before I caught him. Fortunately I am careful about using my break hand properly even with a gri-gri. He was kinda pissed off though... can't blame him.
You can stop some falls with a gri gri threaded backwards.. not lots of inherrent friction though.
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Shiho
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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May 29, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
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Belaying someone who weights a lot more than you with an ATC can give you rope burns so in that regard, using a grigri is nice.
Also, I don't think a lot of people realize how dramatic it is to the belayer's body when the leader who outweighs by quite a lot takes a fall. I caught a couple of falls about 2 weekends ago and my body still hurts from catching the falls. (he weighed 70+lb more than I do) I am sure a 12-year-old's body recovers fast but really, it is a lot of work to belay someone who weighs a lot more than you do.
Don't anchor your daughter because that would be even more painful to your daughter when she catches your fall. What works (for me) is to put some rocks in my backpack and tether it to my belay loop. I have to make the length of the tether right so that the impact of the fall goes to the backpack slight earlier than to me. This, of course, doesn't work on multi-pitch, but usually on multi-pitch climbs, there are more friction that reduces the impact of the fall.
Anyway, my conclusion is, being a small climber, using a grigri is nice especially when I belay someone quite a bit bigger than me.
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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May 29, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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I think rope diameter and coating are variables but I have taken multiple falls on device while solo aiding. No hands were on the device or rope for breaking and my device had no modifications.
I almost had a partner drop me once due to user error while lowering. My experience if left alone the device is pretty awesome at doing its job. Biggest dangers are in holding down camming device while playing out slack to a leader and when lowering. In both situations if the belayer freezes and clamps down the rope can flow the through the device unabated and result in an accident.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 29, 2015 - 02:39pm PT
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Took a rock to my face when my climbers foot hold broke off unexpectedly. I held the fall with the ATC but the 'what if' convinced me to get a grigri.
I know all about the "what if" factor. I would certainly have died three years ago if my belayer had not been using a grigri that day.
I pulled off a big block, which hit somewhere below me and exploded into pieces. Tom was as far out of the line of fire as was possible to be on that climb, but one of the pieces, about the size of a standard brick, flew out sideways nailed him square on the kneecap. He's as tough as any of you guys, but he passed out with the shock. Not for very long, but if the grigri hadn't taken over in his brief absence, i'd have cratered from 100 feet up.
A grigri (or its equivalent) isn't the right tool for every job, but you won't hear me badmouthing it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 29, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
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Belaying someone who weights a lot more than you with an ATC can give you rope burns so in that regard, using a grigri is nice.
Huh, seriously? Rope burns? Man, someone is doing something seriously wrong...
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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May 29, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
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I've owned and stiil own the grigri 1 and 2. For about 8 or so years the gym I climbed at regularly allowed solo TR with a grigri. Rope is anchored to the floor via bolts. I've literally fallen on the grigri 1000+ times also with no assist from the brake hand and it never let me down. Thats not to say that the cam couldn't possibly somehow get obstructed or held down but in my case it didn't. If you are super worried and the route allowed you could climb up to a ledge or stance and have the belayer tie a back up knot. Then at least you wouldn't deck in a catastrophe. I also agree that in chossy areas the grigri is preferred for obvious safety reasons.
Edit: The gym no longer allows that practice due to insurance liabilities. But they never had a recorded accident either.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 29, 2015 - 03:27pm PT
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Held endless falls over forty one years and never once been burned. Can't imagine...
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 29, 2015 - 03:37pm PT
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Issue I ran into was an inexperienced partner lowering me. Got too fast, and, their panic reaction was more lever instead of the counter-intuitive letting go. Corrected prior to splash down, thankfully (60 feet...woulda been fugly for me). Burned their brake hand when they finally got control. All the credit for the final save, but, got me thinkin' about folks using for lowering.
I kinda prefer an ATC for the inexperienced. Easy.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 29, 2015 - 04:25pm PT
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Burch you need to keep that hand down while feeding slack bro!
Brian i almost got dropped on an atc. Her hand was even to the device when she started lowering and then got burned and let go. Fortunately i was holding the brake side because i didn't trust her.
Much training and she performed admirably the day previous under supervision.
You never know. That day we went and bought a gri gri, and i made her use it till she understood the forces a 200 pounder like me can generate.
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WBraun
climber
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May 29, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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Maaannn ....
Another stupid grigri thread.
Americans can't even do simple thing like pull the lever ......
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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May 29, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
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Held endless falls over forty one years and never once been burned. Can't imagine...
How much do you weigh? How much do your climbing partners weigh? How big were the falls? Do you have the grip strength of a 12 year old girl (that is, after all, what the OP is talking about)? I've never been burned using an ATC either, but my partners don't weight twice as much has I do, and I'm not a 12 year old girl (I think).
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DanaB
climber
CT
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May 29, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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old skool belay devices. Figure 8's, belay plates.
Those are not old school.
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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May 29, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
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Some experience with the grigri. In those moments of high stress or panic
brain function can collapse to caveman mode. Fight flight or grab and hold
on to the belay rope. All training and experience can become inaccessible
for a brief second. And that's enough to cost someone their life.
Keep it simple. Stay alive.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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May 29, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
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Gri gri concerns?
No.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 29, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
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I'm guessing someone must make a small blue pill which completely alleviates grigri concerns.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 29, 2015 - 08:24pm PT
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All this talk of grip strength and rope burns and no one mentions that a leather glove might be a good idea for a young belayer?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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May 29, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
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I made my worst mistake belaying while using a Gri-Gri. I managed to thread it in backwards and when My partner sat back to be lowered... SURPRISE!!! he quickly descended about 3 feet before I caught him. Fortunately I am careful about using my break hand properly even with a gri-gri. He was kinda pissed off though... can't blame him.
He should be pissed...at himself! He should have checked you.
I especially love gri gris when someone is going to be hanging a lot.
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matlinb
Trad climber
Fort Collins, CO
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May 29, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
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Dan, Have you considered a device like the Edelrid Jul. It is self locking and from my experience impossible to completely drop someone, like a grigri.
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colin rowe
Trad climber
scotland uk
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May 30, 2015 - 03:51am PT
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I'm planning to do single pitch sport routes in Corsica this year with my child. Because of the discrepancy in our weight I've decided to lead using a Silent Partner and set up a bottom rope system to belay her.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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May 30, 2015 - 10:18am PT
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Excellent post, Bearbreeder!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 30, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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May 29, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
Maaannn ....
Another stupid grigri thread.
Americans can't even do simple thing like pull the lever ......
Actually, ducky, I think the issue is that they DO pull the lever when they shouldn't.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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May 30, 2015 - 01:08pm PT
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In the rock gym we course set by anchoring the climbing rope side to the wall and hang off of the grigri to get up and down. There have been many times where the Grigri just completely failed where you would just sit back and suddenly you were 15 feet down. This usually happens with new ropes in the device. One day I was course setting being coached by two other setters and I leaned back and decked off of a route 15' getting a concussion. The Grigri didn't feel like it was even attached to me. After my hospital visit we started a new gym rule called the Marty knot. When you are 10 feet up on the rope you tie a knot on the rope below the Grigri. This way you might still get the surprise drop, but the knot will stop the Grigri and you will not hit the floor. This happens on the Grigri one device.
However when I am climbing outside I prefer my belayer to be using a Grigri. Now with all the selfies needing to be taken everywhere, nobody is paying attention to your belay. If your belayer is not holding the rope, the Grigri will lock up faster than the ATC. The Grigri is an awesome device!
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Ballo
Trad climber
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...what does the belay device have to do with how heavy you are? Can I belay a 300lb lummox with my butt?
I know four people who have been dropped on a grigri. None of those incidents were belayed using this technique:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Another problem with the grigri is few people who use them ever seem to summit anything.
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couchmaster
climber
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Ballo said: "I know four people who have been dropped on a grigri. None of those incidents were belayed using this technique:"
Really? What technique were each of them using belaying incorrectly with a gri gri if not the "classic" or "New" as detailed in your link?? Please explain so that we can all avoid it.I'm betting you have no personal first hand info despite what you want us to believe via inference.
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couchmaster
climber
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Ballo added: "Another problem with the grigri is few people who use them ever seem to summit anything. "
Haha, he's now calling you out Donini:-) As in summit what? Everest? I was out the other day and tripped over another familiar old dude who a mutual buddy has indicated has done all 7 summits 4 times. You want to know what he was belaying (a rock pitch) with? LOL.
Ballo, really dude? You need to get out of the house more. There is a disturbing problem with Grigris, and I'm not sure what it is, so I'll keep using them.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I don't care what the device is, the person using it is the key. Operator error is a factor in all human endeavors.
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couchmaster
climber
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Yes, when you learned to belay, they emphasized how critical that was. My first belay was a practice lead with a hip belay-catch of a person on an intentional lead fall. I'd practiced it many (many many many) times, but having a persons life in my hands was pretty heavy. Nowadays - folks often hand a grigri to their girlfriend or buddy and start climbing with no instruction. But there was a person who had a rock stick in the Grigri and make it impossible for the device to lock. Could not other problems also be an issue Jim? EVERY Grigri failure had the device absolved? They were ALL human failure? Hmmm.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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I was in the gym a couple of days ago and walked up to two whippersnappers who were giggling away while one of 'em was tying in. Told 'em to stop talking and focus on tying and checking the knot, just the knot, and absolutely nothing else. Because it would kinda suck to lean back and fall 50' to the floor. They took that advice remarkably well, actually.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Bearbreeder said it all folks.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Operator error is a factor in all human endeavors. Complexity, fatigue, darkness, cold, distraction (wow look at that chick!) increase operator error.
In my opinion the Grigri is too complex. Or put differently, not intuitive enough. An ATC is totally intuitive (and you can still make a mistake with it)
As noted by the Fet there are places where it's a good choice.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Nothing wrong with the device just something wrong with the belayer and subsequently the climber themselves for not climbing with a competent belayer and/or ensuring that they are competent
another thumbs up for Bear breeder as usual
edit to add
When I first started using one I had a correspondence by email with Hans Florine and he assured me that he and all of his friends had been using gri gris for years and swore by them...good enough for mme. I made sure I learned to use it correctly and I believe it is an invaluable tool so many different things you can use it for
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cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
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Jul 10, 2016 - 10:06am PT
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That sounds like smart logic. Climber X never had a problem with the grigri. He is famous. He has to be right.
Most important thing to remember and so many out there dont do it, keep your hand on the brake strand! Read the instructions!
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Jul 10, 2016 - 11:10am PT
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Most folks I watch belaying with a Grigri take their hand off at some point while belaying. Most others just give a giant loop of slack. I like the fact that the Grigri in most cases will catch me if I fall but the downside is I feel it makes many belayers lazy. Most people I watch belaying with an ATC or other similar device seem to keep their hand on the rope.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 10, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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I've use the Grigri 100% since it first came out.
It came from (developed from) the Petzl Stop.
I've used the Petzl Stop since it first came out and wore out 2 of them even though Petzl told me it can't be worn out.
It will wear out after doing thousands of feet of static line work in remote regions
where grit enters the ropes and wears out the materials where the rope travels thru.
I've never dropped anyone.
It's simple device and only takes a little intelligence to operate.
There will always be a class of people who screw up something.
It's guaranteed!
The minute a screw up happens all the drama people arrive with their opinions against it.
It's guaranteed.
All while thousands of uses daily the device works flawlessly when used intelligently ....
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 10, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
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That sounds like smart logic. Climber X never had a problem with the grigri. He is famous. He has to be right.
Most important thing to remember and so many out there dont do it, keep your hand on the brake strand! Read the instructions!
Yeah cubby that would be pretty stupid if that were my only criteria for forming an opinion
Your response lends even more credence to the fact that anything posted here will find opposition from someone willing to twist a statement to fit their agenda and the rest of your statement is just typical smug Super Topo Guy.
I would certainly put much more faith in Hans' opinion then some random Anonymous Topoian named Cubby
vvvvv I have never tried the new version but I have two of the original version still going after years of use
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jul 10, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
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GRI GRI #2 IS JUNK! It had been recalled 2x's, I will never own one. Gri Gri#1 rocks.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 10, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
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Never saw the need to 'upgrade' myself why to save a few ounces Poor widdle tough climber babies can't pack a few more ounces?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jul 10, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
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yup pansy peep's can't hack that weight on their backs.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Jul 13, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
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Somebody posted about the CAMP Matik. In theory it's better than the GriGri...in actual use, no way. Great concept but needs a ton of work (I bought one, sold it on eBay). Btw I used to hate GriGris too...and I'm a very experienced climber of nearly 40 years. Took a trip to Kalymnos using the GriGri 2 only and watching the video on Petzl's website a number of times. For me, and other experienced climbers, you master this thing and I truly thing it's safer. For noobs...I agree, probably not.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 15, 2016 - 11:55am PT
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Yeah that thing is awesome
I will wait to see how it shakes out first though.
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Pete_N
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jul 15, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
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Hmmm. I'd like to see how that anti-panic device works more closely--the epictv video sorta blows through that! ;-)
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jul 15, 2016 - 11:00pm PT
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It looks like the lever is designed to just bypass the cam and release it if it goes to far. Great solution!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 15, 2016 - 11:16pm PT
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It basically aligns the grigri with the Edelrid Eddy which was a german take on the grigri with handle-pull relocking. On the Eddy the handle pin simply comes off the cam if you pull it too far and only works in a narrow range in the middle. Probably works more or less the same on the grigri+.
Don't particularly care for the Eddy as a belay device and only use mine for rope soloing. Would use the grigri+ if they'd reverse the damn rope path which is what makes the Eddy so good for lead rope soloing.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
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I was asked to do some testing on the Mammut Smart when it came out. My first impression was that its locking feature was nifty. I quickly learned that this device is not safe for climbing for a number of reasons. It doesnt always lock. It frequenly gets stuck and wont unlock. When locked while lowering or hanging, it spontaneously unlocks. The sheath on old ropes bunches up in the thing and screws with the action. And if the rope is wet, it doesnt hold at all. Iearned this the hardway, lowering to the edge of a slick steep roof I was cleaning raingutters in a storm at the gym. Lastly, feeding slack to a lead climber with one of these POS units is a beotch. The thing locks when you dont want it to and unlocks when you do. Gri gri is way to go. When you get tired, lowering partners from hanging belays is a bitch with the ATC and you cant belay directly off an anchor with one for guiding. Gri gri is optimum for that because you are already escaped from belay if your climber (follower) struggles. Simply add mini-traxion down rope with the tial of your belay through a biner on the traxion and youre three to one in about thirty seconds of rigging. And If you use a 10.1 or better rope the gri gri locks everytime. Ive self belayed and taken over 500 self belayed lead stagedives on a grigri and it never fails with the proper size rope. Most accidents Ive seen with one (and Ive seen a few) were caused by operator error. Always yank on your belayer before starting that lead to make sure its locking and not rigged backwards. At first, the gri gri will put terrible twists in the rope when lowering. But the method of lowering is key. The curved phlange on the belay hand side of the gri gri is made to allow you to adjust which way the rope drags on it . Eventually you learn to lower without any twists. And finally, look at who in the professional world of climbing is using them. If you are climbing alot or working as an instructor they are the only way to go. Sometimes I carry two grigris and the mini traxion when I guide.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
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One more thing. If you do alot of coursesetting in the gym, you will see why we use these blessed little widgets. Screw the little fake grigri knockoffs made by other companies. They are the wrong shape and size for dextrous handling and the handles break. They heat up really fast and give me the creeps. Check out what Touchstone setters use for self belay. When you are working with both hands hauling, rigging, setting or stripping grigri rules. You can actually lead your route as you set and take lead falls, provided theres NOT TOO MUCH ROPE OUT. When the rope gets heavy, these things will autofeed slack. Stil, for steep overhangs with lotsa draws its not usually a problem. Carry a jumar and a stepladder if you plan on whipping or else you have to hump the rope to ascend. Lots of luck and keep your harness doubled back folks!
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belaying a heavier climber: allows a lighter climber to catch a heavier one with much less grip on the brake hand
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