Discussion Topic |
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2015 - 09:00am PT
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I read that since base is illegal in National Parks, in an attempt to minimize the likelyhood of getting caught, jumpers are jumping at dusk or near dark. Clearly that may be a contributing factor to increasing the danger in an already dangerous activity.
How many cliffs suitable for base jumping are in Yosemite? 5, 10, a couple of dozen? It seems as though the NPS is more interested in arresting jumpers (waiting for them in the meadow to catch them after the illegal jump) than they are in actually stopping the activity? Wouldn't it be an effective deterrant to have rangers at the top of the cliffs for an hour around dusk, so the jumps would not happen? No arrests, but no jumps either?
Either make a real attempt to stop jumping BEFORE it happens, or just allow it, so jumpers aren't adding additional risk by forcing them into poor visibility jumps.
I'm not saying NPS is complicit in what happened. Two guys made the choice to jump. No one forced them. But I do feel that the current NPS methods of enforcement (waiting until after the jump so an arrest can be made) is not effective? Thoughts?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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NPS needs to allow a certain amount of legal jumping sites and times. Yosemite has some of the best, safest jump points in the world. Not to mention spectacular. Not suggesting they allow proximity flying but regular base or even wingsuit from some points is about as safe as it can get.
Half Dome..El Cap.
Doubt it would stop all illegal jumping activity but I do think the desire to jump there is reasonable and too strong to stop. Why not go with it? If done properly it might increase safety.
They allow Hang gliding at a certain time from Glacier Point.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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May 21, 2015 - 09:11am PT
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Yeah..that sounds practical. Let's have the NPS post people at all the potential jump sites twice a day. Sounds like a great use of resources (sarcasm, in case you missed it). Personally, I'd rather just see it legalized. If that's not going to happen, I just don't see this "prevention" scheme as a practical alternative.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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^^^ +1
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 21, 2015 - 09:17am PT
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First off, it's not 'flying'. It's falling like a rock with a cape on.
Secondly, it's ritualized suicide - look at the statistics.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 09:20am PT
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I completely agree regarding proximity flying and short base jumps.. but not necessarily base in general.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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May 21, 2015 - 09:45am PT
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Nope, how about we not have these guys scaring the crap out of climbers who are not expecting someone to go hurtling off above them?
Frankly I don't see any "need" for BASE or wingsuit shenanigans to be legal.
It would be more cost effective to hire sharp shooters than to have to have rangers trek up to common jump locations daily. Let's be fiscally responsible if we are going to try to stop the behavior.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 09:54am PT
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You only feel that way because the dangerous sport you happen to live for is legal in Yosemite.
I'm a hypocrit too.. but I have my limits.
I've broken the law many times to ski or climb where or when I felt I should be allowed to. Much of that in Yosemite due to camping restrictions. Plenty of out of bounds skiing, climbing without a permit some times.
I don't feel one bit bad about it. Always public lands..I do respect private property a bit more.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 21, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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Climbski, I can't speak for Moof but I'm living proof that climbing is foolproof.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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I'm not suggesting it's particularly practical to have rangers on cliffs, I'm just suggesting that lurking in the meadow to catch jumpers after the jump seems kinda lame? All it's doing is increasing risk (dusk jumping) not stopping jumping.
Is the plan to stop jumping, or is it just to arrest people?
I'm surprised to see people who now seem anti base or anti proxy flying in Yosemite after the 300 post thread which was basically "YOLO, a life well lived". I'm confused.
Honestly I don't see why NPS says base is dangerous, but allows soloing? Is the anti base/anti skydiving based on danger to the person doing the activity? Is it based on the nuisance factor to other park goers? What is the official NPS reason for the ban?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 09:58am PT
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Reilly
lol.. ! I resemble that remark.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 21, 2015 - 10:06am PT
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Honestly I don't see why NPS says base is dangerous, but allows soloing? Is the anti base/anti skydiving based on danger to the person doing the activity? Is it based on the nuisance factor to other park goers? What is the official NPS reason for the ban?
It has nothing to do with danger but due to a phrase in the legal wording of the mission of the NPS.
"To preserve traditional usage of the land" Or something like that. Climbing was established decades before the NPS in these lands and therefore is grandfathered in. The NPS can't legally stop it. Although they can make reasonable rules about how it can be done.
Since that is not the case with flying sports they don't have to allow it and so for the most part they don't.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 21, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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Well put, Dave. What I have called soloing Dean Potter would have called hiking.
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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May 21, 2015 - 10:11am PT
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How many cliffs?
#of cliffs=finite
#of exit points=infinite
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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May 21, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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I'm surprised to see people who now seem anti base or anti proxy flying in Yosemite after the 300 post thread which was basically "YOLO, a life well lived". I'm confused.
I'd like to think that people had more class than express their anti-BASE opinions on threads dedicated to remembering the people who lost their lives. Not really the appropriate place IMO.
Personally, I can't understand how one could be anti-BASE while still supporting climbing in NP's. In the eyes of the average person/legislator they really are not all that different. Just different forms of frivolous, dangerous, thrill seeking death-wishers that place a burden on the American tax-payer. Read any of the comments section of a new-thread after any climbing accident, and you'll see this attitude. It's a slippery slope to ban one "dangerous" activity...just a matter of time before others are included.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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May 21, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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It could be more of keeping the skies clear than specifically being anti-base. There used to be an airstrip in Yosemite a very long time ago, and now the regulations don't permit flight below 2,000 feet above the highest point. Is that a good thing? Although I'm a pilot and would love to fly feet from the walls of Half Dome, down into the valley and past El Cap, down the Merced, its probably a good thing I can't do that. I can't even do it with the power off at dusk and hope to get away with it.
If they allow non-powered flight and it got popular as it probably would eventually get, the valley would be a different place. Perhaps like the New River Gorge they could allow it once a year or more. And if they do that, every five years they could allow planes and jets to buzz the valley! Yeehaw!
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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May 21, 2015 - 10:50am PT
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Add controls, legalize it, and let it evolve..
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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May 21, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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Hang-gliding is legal in the park for at least a few days a year from Glacier Point.
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John M
climber
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May 21, 2015 - 11:10am PT
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trying to police every cliff every day would be highly impractical. Each cliff can be hours of hiking away. Just like trying to stop all speeding in the park is impractical.
I hope that they legalize some form of base jumping on specific days like they do hang gliding. I love watching the gliders in the park.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 21, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Is the plan to stop jumping, or is it just to arrest people?
It's NOT the governments job to be our daddy's and define what behaviors are allowed or not allowed! Their job strictly is that of a referee to regulate the harms done by said behaviors against the environment. "Environment" including nature and people.
Example being, we have video of a cop telling a Base jumper poised atop a bridge, "If you jump you will be arrested". The Baser asked "your not arresting me now?", then jumped.
Government needs to be reminded daily of what their job is!
They have not a lawfull argument, or right discriminating against all Base jumping on public lands, parks.
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Gunkie
climber
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May 21, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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BASE jumping is ubiquitous in just about every other country that has exit points. I'm all for opening it up in national parks for at least few days/year. Depending on the winds and such, different exit points would open or close. Post some warning signs for hikers/climbers venturing into the potential impact zones on those days and at those places because the law of large numbers predicts that some folks will auger in; it's inevitable.
However, the flatbed 10 did nothing to help the cause nor did the 1999 protest jump from above Zodiac (see above). Maybe those incidents are still vibrant in the memories of NPS officials?
My distinct fear is that if the NPS begins to regulate BASE jumping, maybe they begin to feel the need to regulate climbing more closely.
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c wilmot
climber
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May 21, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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If the NPS allows it then they would have to have BASE rangers to moniter and ensure the rules would be followed. It seems to be a liability thing along with the ever present lack of funds for the NPS.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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May 21, 2015 - 12:44pm PT
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Don't forget about the Gambler.
The NPS had a direct cause in his fatality too
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Bill Sherman
Mountain climber
Culver City, CA
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May 21, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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Only if Heisenberg is equating The Gambler's decision with jumping in the Merced as a direct result of the NPS chasing him.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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May 21, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
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Bill you are correct.Guns drawn is the rumor. I wasn't there so I will not say.
The current charge is illegal air delivery. How is it that you can hang glide from GP and not BASE from El Cap?
Currently BASE is a permitted activity but the superintendent will not issue permits.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 21, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
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Guns drawn is the rumor.
What choice did he have but to jump at dusk and then jump into the Merced? He must have feared for his life. What was he black?
Seems like it should be legal and regulated if people can do it responsibly.
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WBraun
climber
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May 21, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
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What choice did he have but to jump at dusk and then jump into the Merced?
At dusk?
Are you sure .....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 21, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
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The national parks are not X Games venues, they are to be protected in their
natural state where the only things flying are birds, bugs, and the odd squirrel.
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crankster
Trad climber
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May 21, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
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NPS allowed some legal jumps around '80. Didn't work out. I think the view will always be that BASE is too much of a fringe, dangerous activity.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 21, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
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Not in that particular case no. Sorry, not really trying to provide Information more referencing our perception of the bigger picture of whose to blame posited by the op re dusk jumps and repeated re Merced for the gambler and just combined the two for brevity and ease of human brain processing as a surrogate for the plight of the persecuted BASE jumper. You know, I read it on the Internet :-)
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 21, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
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Canyoncat said:
I don't see why NPS says base is dangerous, but allows soloing? Could be based on the history, which shows lots of deaths from BASE jumping and few from free soloing.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 21, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
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Add controls, legalize it, and let it evolve..
Evolution relies on survival to a point.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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May 21, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
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"The national parks are not X Games venues, they are to be protected in their
natural state where the only things climbing are lizards, bugs, and the odd squirrel."
There Reilly fixed it for ya.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 21, 2015 - 09:26pm PT
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Yes, today they could have a safe day or two per year. The problem then is who is qualified? If you could really control that, then it would be piss easy.
There have been big legal BASE events all over the world. They are sort of invite-only, so there haven't been any big problems.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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May 21, 2015 - 09:40pm PT
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Silly thread.
BASE kills.
Always has,
and always will.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 22, 2015 - 03:10am PT
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I totally get that flying is amazeing. I also completly feel that proximity flying is incredibly stupid. the idea should be to steer away from the cliffs that will kill you, not to see how close you can come to them. Absoluetly, completly and incredibly stupid. I street raced motorcycles when I was young and stupid. That was incredibly stupid as well . It's damn hard to get dumber than stuffing a crotch rocket into a turn at over a 100mph with guard rails, ledges, bridges, houses and trees etc. on one side and a log truck or semi etc in the other lane, yet I did that pretty much every rideable spring, summer and fall day from the age of 16yrs to 24 days after my 20th birthday. I crashed a bunch of times and somehow lived. came off at 110mph and was able to walk away and hitch hike to the hospital. (thought it was a really cool wreck at the time) Saved by full face helmet and Bates raceing leathers as well as a huge dose of luck. 6-24-84 I saw my best friend in two pieces on fire. parked the bike in the driveway and let it sit there rain or shine for about 5 months and then sold it dirt cheap..... A crotch rocket has amazeing brakes and manuverability. They go fast as hell but turn and stop on a dime often giveing you 10 cents change. Wing suits have no brakes and very limited manuverability. flying close to solid objects with them is at least 100 times dumber than street raceing which is about as dumb as you can get......
I hate that saying," he died doing what he loved". I only buy that line if your old and your health is failing. When a young person goes early they f*#ked up doing something they loved. No glory in that.. play the cards right and get lucky with your health and you can be like Fritz, soloing in your eightys still doing what you love..........
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 22, 2015 - 03:21am PT
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would also like to add that doing tricks on a short jump is incredibly stupid as well. The number of times we read about a base jumper decking while doing tricks is insane.. You only have a few seconds to get your sh#t together and get you chute open but you do back flips instead.. Ooopsi, you lose . now your family and loved ones get the big shaft.
this is Not dying doing something you love. It's being an as#@&%e, f*#king up and ruining you mom and dad and siblings and lovers and childrens lifes.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 22, 2015 - 06:52am PT
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The problem then is who is qualified?
That is the crux of the problem.
If it were legal and open then people without good sense would make a mess out of the landscape. Also, there are a select few who have a true death wish; depressed people want to die so try to turn their guides into unwilling executioners.
On the other hand, perhaps this would thin the herd. (dark joke)
Unqualified persons ruin just about everything, even hiking, backpacking, visiting beautiful places, etc.
A good solution is a strong formal system of training and permitting. Highly problematic, but a path forward.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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May 22, 2015 - 07:09am PT
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A good solution is a strong formal system of training and permitting.
But what if all the mentors are dead? Who does the training then? Reilly called it "ritualized suicide", maybe there's something to that.
http://base-jumping.eu/base-jumping-fatality-list/
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 22, 2015 - 07:11am PT
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Gary, Well I'm a pretty unqualified critic, but perhaps if they had more classes in aerodynamics?
Human flight should be an exact science, not an "adrenaline sport."
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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May 22, 2015 - 07:21am PT
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What if it is? So what? Why shouldn't 'these people' be allowed to pursue their ritualized whatever? What difference does it make to humanity, that these folks are out trying to do whatever? I'll tell you; none. It makes none difference.
You're right, totally. Still, don't do it in the valley where a bunch of tourists will see it. That's not fair.
Back when I was a teen-ager, a doctor in town committed suicide with a gun. He got caught prescribing drugs for money.
The suicide thing was OK, but he did it in his backyard where his teen-age daughter found him sitting in a lawn chair with his brains all over the grass. That was an as#@&%e thing to do.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2015 - 08:15am PT
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Just as a counterpoint, base happens to be an activity that keeps a formal list of fatalities. People love to point out THE LIST.
That said, don't you think if there was a formal list of climbing fatalities it would greatly surpass the base list?
Several climbers have died "in front of tourists" and they don't ban climbing.
I'm not pro base and I'm sure not anti climbing. I do see some hypocrisy on the part of NPS. I guess maybe it does boil down to historical uses, but that implies we don't keep up with the modern world. For that matter, what's historical about selling pizza and concessions?
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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May 22, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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That said, don't you think if there was a formal list of climbing fatalities it would greatly surpass the base list?
For 2013 ANAM reports 25 fatalities. The BASE website reports 24 fatalities.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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May 22, 2015 - 08:35am PT
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I'm with Moof.
Poor tourist got killed because some caped flyer landed on him...
Poor search rescue has to do yet another clean up..
Illegal keep it that way..
Maybe open 1day a year
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2015 - 08:51am PT
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It's got nothing to do with any of that.
To allow BASE jumping in Nat Parks it has to be regulated.
That's how the govt, does business whether we like it or not.
That means it will require a budget and staff to run.
In the 80's when it was legal BASE was still in it's infancy and people where landing everywhere except where they were supposed to.
NPS had to chase em down to their LZ landings to make sure they weren't injured.
Every day this was happening and took up a lot of resources.
We got sent out all the time looking for jumpers who disappeared out of sight in the wrong designated landings to make sure they were OK.
Jumpers also ignored designated launch zones and where free lancing in other areas of the park that were not allowed to jump from.
It became a fuking zoo, circus and was out of control from their POV (NPS) and thus they said no more.
Then years later ,,,, the protest was allowed to show they have better equipment and control to land in the designated LZ.
Unfortunately the third jumper BASED.
That didn't look good for the BASE community in the eyes of the people they were trying impress.
Thus it remains not allowed ....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 22, 2015 - 08:57am PT
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Through the National Park Service Act (1916), Congress authorized the National Park Service to promote and regulate the use of the Federal areas known as national parks, monuments, and reservations…by such means and measures as conform to the fundamental purpose to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wildlife therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.
Now I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything in there that says the Park
Service is mandated to allow every nutcase to do whatever he wants to do
whenever he wants to do it.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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May 22, 2015 - 09:31am PT
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Werner
Do you think today that something could be reached with the NPS and BASE?
You have valid points from experience and not an opinion like others have posted.
How do you see a compromise with the NPS / BASE to allow jumpers to jump?
As far as landing out there are a few circumstances where one NEEDS to land out.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 22, 2015 - 09:35am PT
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Thanks for the background and excellent points Werner.
Regarding a good landing site... Arent they about to close all the meadows to foot traffic anyway? Man that's gunna suck for everyone let alone the idea of an acceptable place for landing if BASE got approval.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 22, 2015 - 09:56am PT
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and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.
Some people enjoy it by being choufheard around on the bottom sitting in a green dragon looking up. Some like to climb to the top and step off enjoying the view on the way down.
So tell me, who's actually impaired the Valley more?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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May 22, 2015 - 10:07am PT
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Now if only we could get Harley's with their god awfully loud and annoying exhaust systems banned we would be getting somewhere.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 22, 2015 - 10:09am PT
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Moof, exactly. Apparently the NPS has never heard of decibel meters.
A Harley rolls up to the entrance and out comes the meter. Make 'em
rev the monster and send 'em back to the ghetto that spawned 'em.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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May 22, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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BASE isn't a crime.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 22, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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In a way, I don't mind that much that Yosemite is illegal. It helps to keep the riff raff away. There are unintended consequences, though, because it has been going on non-stop since the early 80's. You guys would be shocked if you knew how many jumps have quietly happened over the years. NOBODY discusses what they have done in Yosemite. It is all on the down low other the infrequent busts and things like Jan Davis's accident.
Unintended consequences, since it is going on anyway:
1: Anyone with access to a parachute can jump. Any idiot can put on a rig and go jump El Cap in this legal environment. The judge isn't lenient just because you are an expert, safely jumping. I mean, anybody can do it. All of the El Cap accidents have that as a cause. Even when Jan Davis died, she wasn't super current and couldn't find the pilot chute on a borrowed rig. She would probably have died if it were a skydive, and quite a few skydiving fatalities have had the same cause. When jumping borrowed gear, you MUST practice the pull over and over. I believe in her case it was a bottom of container pouch, which is how all modern BASE rigs place the pilot chute now.
2: The Rangers Themselves I, and anyone else who has even thought about jumping in the valley is afraid of the rangers. That is why it is done discretely. They used to be rabid about catching jumpers. I listened in on a couple of mid 80's era BASE manhunts, and they just went nuts. They brought in a whole gang both times. It blew my mind how much manpower they diverted to catch a jumper, because it is a misdemeanor. The jumper stands to lose his rig and 5000 bucks. Getting away is half of the jump at least. The jump is easy to do. Getting away with it requires a lot of observation and planning. It is absurd to think that the current situation doesn't make it more dangerous.
Here is an article in The Guardian discussing whether or not the regulations contributed to the recent accident, including the thoughts of Cedar Wright and Brian Kay:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules-not-risk-cause-dean-potters-base-jumping-death
Yes. Last year in the NPS system there were 16 searches for lost pets and only 3 SAR operations for BASE jumpers.
We all know of the time that they chased Frank Gambali into the Merced, where he drowned.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/Mag15lastbase/frank-gambalie-lived-died-base-jumping-espn-magazine-archives
Avoiding bust involves all sorts of changes in time, place, LZ, where to hide, you name it. If there were no rangers. It could go on in broad daylight. Not getting caught is half the game.
3: Jumping in low light conditions. This isn't too bad with a conventional jump, but I can see how it would make it a problem on proxy flights. It sure doesn't make it safer. They don't fly proxy lines after dark in Europe, I wager. Why, when you can legally do it all day long? Low light is obviously more important to wingsuiters following proxy lines, but all jumps involve landing in the dark, and it makes that a lot harder.
I went back through the BASE Fatality List just to see how many deaths there have been in Yosemite.
There have been 3 from El Cap.
There have been 2 from Half Dome, the last being in 1988. This one shouldn't have happened. He did everything right other than open high enough. The slabs are a little deceptive as you track out over them. He lost altitude awareness and pulled just before impact. I used to be surprised at how low I could go off of Half Dome. It is very different from El Cap, and sits so high above the valley that even conventional jump you can fly your canopy across to Basket Dome or way up the valley, far from roads.
No doubt there have been a lot of broken ankles, at least one rescue from Glacier Point, and other incidents that have happened, but by and large it has been forgiving for all other than the most inexperienced. If it was legal, those folks would not have been allowed. Not even close.
Up until this week, there had been only 5 fatalities that I know of, using the fatality list, and I know that these objects get jumped fairly often. Not every day, but often enough, and then it might be 4 at a time. Anyone who has spent much time on valley walls has witnessed it. I've damn sure done all of them. On caveman gear, but we knew all possible risks. A parachute isn't that complicated, nor is a simple track from HD or El Cap.
For an expert jumper, they are simple jumps. I'm not talking about wingsuiting here. Just a conventional BASE jump.
I seriously doubt if it will ever be legal. The best that I could hope for would be to put the hammer down on anyone without 200 skydives or say 20 BASE jumps. Be a little more lenient towards the masters.
It could be done, however, and I suppose that some day far into the future it will be. There is only one Yosemite in the U.S. Europe is covered with great sites, along with full time jumpers just like in climbing.
There are very few terminal velocity sites in the U.S. Yes, the Moab area is full of sites, but you take a 3 second freefall at most. You don't need to know how to fly your body.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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May 22, 2015 - 11:53am PT
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BASE104 thanks for posting up. I for one really appreciate your perspective.
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overwatch
climber
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May 22, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
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Definitely an informed post on an interesting subject.
Edit;
I know my inner grammar nazi caught that too.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 22, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
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Thanks for the information wbraun.
who is qualified
Qualified to do what? My understanding is that these two guys were very qualified to don the gear and face the fear, but they weren't qualified to have the proportionality of values that woud allow them to do it without dying. I'm qualified to do that, because I just wouldn't jump, but I dont think that's the qualifications that we want to screen for :-) Given the track record of errors in judgment (and values?) with respect to flying at dusk or jumping into the Merced, maybe this is an activity that doesn't screen for those values, so why should we? Is pulling the chute really the most important qualification for this activity? I'm not convinced that we're qualified to say who is qualified.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 23, 2015 - 05:01am PT
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you have a million or so climbers and mountaineres and maybe 4,000 jumpers with roughly the same number of fatalitys
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 23, 2015 - 07:42am PT
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BASE104 said:
I seriously doubt if it will ever be legal. The best that I could hope for would be to put the hammer down on anyone without 200 skydives or say 20 BASE jumps. Be a little more lenient towards the masters. This would help avoid the beginner problems. But a complication is the fact that the masters have some tendency to use their mastery to plan jumps that increasingly shave the margin for error. This can yield an accident rate that increases with experience, rather than the normal decrease.
All the evidence suggests that Dean & Graham were experts who meticulously planned their jumps - about as qualified as anyone could be. Yet the jump they undertook had a tiny margin for error, which even two masters did not manage to stay within.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 23, 2015 - 07:46am PT
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Sula is right on. In roped rock climbing skill and experience tend to mitigate risk.
In proximity flying skill and experience seem to push people into taking more difficult lines and shaving margins without the saftey net available in rock climbing
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2015 - 07:58am PT
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You people just can't handle life itself.
You always try to force it into your way.
Then it always breaks free from "your way".
And eternally remains Free .....
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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May 23, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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As a tourist, I would love to see Base Jumping legal. It is a huge draw for Bridge day at New River Gorge in WV.
Back in 2004 I spent some time with Lincoln Else when he had Coffee with a ranger at Camp IV. I had just seen my first Base Jumper. I asked him why it was illegal. His take was interesting. He told me how they would frequently hike in with cheap gear from Walmart and just leave it behind, creating a huge trash problem for the rangers to clean up. (Obviously these were not the same folks that post on the Taco.)
Yosemite celebrates climbers. I bet if jumping were legal there would be viewing platforms near the best LZ's.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 23, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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I'd love to see Evil Knevil jump el cap on a rocket motorcycle...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 23, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
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I'd like to see the Flying Elvises base The Captain but even I get that
our national parks aren't freak shows.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 23, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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Keep the freak show in camp 4...Parking lot beat downs are safer and more entertaining than base jumping...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 23, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
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I think wingsuit flying is amazeing. it does seem pretty obvious that proxy flying is takeing way too many people. If soloists were decking at the same rate we would be haveing the same conversation about them.
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overwatch
climber
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May 23, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
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Reason is but servant to the flame...I like that.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Mexico City, D.F.
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May 24, 2015 - 07:52am PT
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Yosemite should be designated as a protected wilderness area. No more NPS, no more Degnan's Deli, Ahwanee Hotel, Camp 4, etc. The goal should not be to maximize the number of visitors, but to return the valley to a more natural state. Then there would be no NPS rangers to harrass climbers and base jumpers.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 24, 2015 - 07:58am PT
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I suspect that returning the Valley to its natural state would signal the end to illegal base jumping too. Having to lug that gear for miles would be a powerful deterrent.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 24, 2015 - 06:53pm PT
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To give you an idea of how a legal BASE event should be run, look no further than the annual jumps in Kuala Lumpur. The invitation list varied year to year, with between fifty and 100 invited jumpers. All highly experienced. All with good gear.
At each event where I could find numbers, which was listed with most of them, the number of total jumps varied from 1100 or so up to 2800 successful jumps another year.
Sadly, a couple of years the local organizers allowed some jumpers with little experience participate and one year there was a fatality. She had only 20 BASE jumps.
Please read this and things will begin to clear. It goes over each event and the results of how successful a legal event can be:
http://www.kltowerjump.com/about.html
That is the way it should be done. Back in 1980, during that few weeks that BASE was legal off of El Cap, there were no BASE jumpers. Only skydivers, most of whom had never done a fixed object jump before. The requirements were lax compared to modern day standards. Still, there were no serious accidents or fatalities...and the gear was pre-historic compared to the gear of today.
More importantly, this was a skydiver event, sanctioned by the USPA, the governing body for skydiving in this country.
Back in those days, skydivers were a roudy bunch. They were like the "bikers of the sky."
Predictably, they promptly broke most of the rules. It was supposed to be one jumper at a time, but they would do 3 or 4 at once. Those kinds of rules. The infamous flatbed ten were ostracized for what they did. Now, that was before BASE as we know it even began. To do it these days would require a serious vetting process, whittling the number of jumpers down to less than a hundred, taking place only a few weeks per year. Nobody wants to mess up an object, but El Cap has been permanently wrecked since those first days. Today's jumpers are quite a bit more responsible and less rowdy than in those days.
It could easily be done safely and legally, but I doubt it would stop the illegal jumps. I would bet that few would show up for El Cap, because this year at Bridge Day in W VA, they are finger printing all jumpers for the first time. This has caused a huge backlash and threat to boycott. Bridge Day is huge for local business, and you can bet your ass that 100,000 observers don't show up just to legally walk across the bridge.
They have caught guys with outstanding warrants in Yosemite before at Bridge Day. Created quite a stir. They just went through the list of jumpers and found three. I know of at least one who was extradited to California. For a misdemeanor.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 24, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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hey there say, base104... wow, as to bridge day, oh my, i never would have thought that folks with 'outstanding warrents' in yosemite, would be 'looked for there'... i am just too naive, in those ways...
oh my...
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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May 24, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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In Yosemite, bringing in visitors to watch base jumping is not a good thing. It's a big negative.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 24, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
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Yeah, and it has kept people away from the event. A lot of the jumpers at Bridge Day are doing their first BASE jumps, but now, Twin Falls is legal. The BLM around Moab is legal. Most people seem to be learning at Twin Falls bridge. They offer and advertise First Jump Courses, similar to a FJC at a skydiving drop zone. Even experienced jumpers go hang out there and jump the bridge over and over. I can't remember the 24 hour record, but it is a lot.
West Virginia owns the bridge. The NPS owns the landing area, which is small. For years, the NPS has been using the list for purposes other than "national security." That is their reason today. It seems like a bad joke, but it does keep some of the more experienced jumpers away. Getting to 1000 BASE jumps will usually get you tied up with the law at some point.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 24, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
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In Yosemite, bringing in visitors to watch base jumping is not a good thing. It's a big negative.
I agree. I've never really cared if it was legal in Yosemite or not. The hard-on that they have over jumpers must be experienced to be believed.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 24, 2015 - 07:42pm PT
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Skyydivers were a rowdy bunch. Predictably they broke most of the rules.
Yosemite .. This is exactly where he'd want his rule-breaking, fringe-pushing, counterculture spirit to live forever.
Did he choose this flying culture and place, or did it choose him? I think this is part of what attracts him and us to this culture, not simply jumping off a cliff ...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 24, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
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^^^ Now your scratch'in at some Void
The draw your talk'in, would that be caused through genetic determinism, or a spiritual rebellion going against the cultural norm ?
vvvv edit, Example A; Pipedream. Biological causation, or product of Environment, with either a positive or a negative energy source?
vvvv
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Mexico City, D.F.
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May 24, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
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^ That's true Jim, for climbers even more. You'd have to carry that haulbag from El Portal, not just from the Meadows. I just googled it, and it's about 10 miles. A long walk but not exactly a Himalayan expedition. Just imagine what the valley would be like if this could be achieved. The Merced is a protected river, and that protection needs to be widened to include the whole Yosemite Valley.
* in case someone wonders what this has to do with BASE jumping, the idea is that if the NPS goes away, so do the law enforcement problems.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 24, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
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Years ago, the late, great LA Times sports writer, Jim Murray, called the Indy 500 the fastest traffic jam in the world. "Gentlemen," said Murray, "start your coffins."
He might as well have been talking about proximity flying.
JL
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 24, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
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Man, yous guys must be smoking some righteous sh!t! The Park Service will leave the
Valley when they drain Lake Powell.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 25, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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Don Paul said:
The goal should not be to maximize the number of visitors, but to return the valley to a more natural state. Then there would be no NPS rangers to harrass climbers and base jumpers. The current state of the valley is, as this implies, quite far from natural. But it would still be so if the buildings, roads and the NPS were removed (which, as we all know, cannot possibly happen).
Certainly there would be far fewer visitors. But Yosemite's reputation is such that there would always be plenty, and without some infrastructure - and the people to maintain it - their impact (trash, sewage, etc.) would yield an environment far from the valley's natural state.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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I think a lot of people assume if the NPS wasn't running Yosemite there would be less people. Personally, I think that is a real bad assumption. If one looks at the direction the valley was going before the NPS, it seems one could only conclude that it would be much worse. More crowded with truly awful things, and higher prices to enter what would likely be private land.
I think it is very naive to assume that they valley doesn't need law enforcement, specifically law enforcement with a resource protection goal (Park Rangers).
The point I'm trying to make is that while the NPS has problems, we should be talking about fixing the problems, not engaging in "down with the NPS" hyperbole.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 25, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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I certainly do not envy the job the NPS has regarding Yosemite Valley. While I find myself disagreeing with some of their decisions I generally can understand the reasoning behind them. If it were not for the lack of decent access to on demand camping available in the valley I would have a hard time really coming up with something I find egregiously wrong with their system.
For the most part I am really amazed how well the valley works considering the demands of millions on it. The impact on the valley is much smaller than it could be otherwise.
Even if we forced folks to hike in there would be a lot of people doing it. Enough that expensive measures and some infrastructure would be necessary to reduce trash and sewage issue. Either that or forced limits on how many could visit. Which is the way some places have gone.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 25, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
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Blueblocr some of each prolly. Let's say 49% nature 51% nurture? :-) I don't know, I just believe.
Meant it more with respect to rulifying the culture of the sport. In the tamed sport of rock climbing, it's still the Potters and Honnolds who get our glory. They don't play by the rules that the previous generation played by. I think it's a big part of what we glorify about these sports. If our number one goal was really not to get taken out by f*#king up, we probably wouldn't be in this game.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 25, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
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Yeah, we can bitch and moan about the NPS, but have any of you considered the alternative? Cable cars to the top of Half Dome? Did you know that James Watt considered doing just that at one time?
If the valley were in state or god forbid private hands, it would be even worse than it is. The valley proper is almost an amusement park as it is. BASE would draw a big crowd to El Cap meadow and they would trample the place. So Yosemite isn't the place to make it legal, IMO, despite the safety records of thousands of legal jumps in Kuala Lumpur.
The jumpers today can regulate themselves to a point. You rarely hear about a jumper in the valley because it is discrete. There certainly aren't crowds of tourons watching, because nobody sees it.
There are other places that should be legal. Canyon de Chelley National Monument was legal for years with no problems until the district ranger caught wind of it and shut it down. It is on Navajo land, and we made some great friends among the locals. The way we managed it was by not telling anyone other than the hardcore group, and they didn't tell anyone, even other jumpers. We used to go out there 4 or 5 at a time, do 3 jumps each day, then a night jump, day after day after day. We even got permits from the NPS office. It was shut down because the bureaucracy found out about it. Anyway, most jumpers didn't even know about it. It was invite only.
Lake Powell has some terrific sites. I opened some of them up. We went in there one year, rented a boat, and jumped all day and night for 8 days. No injuries from us. They eventually found out about it and lake patrol flies over that sweet exit point every day. It shut it down completely.
Glen Canyon Recreation Area is under the NPS domain. It isn't a park by any means. We jumped from Navajo land on the rim. We landed on the lake which NPS has control. There were no crowds. We wouldn't even jump if a boat was present. Eventually it got burned.
You can jump from The Titan, and it gets done a lot, as well as Castleton. If you jump on the other side of the river (Arches NP), then you go to jail. I like Arches. There is no real reason to open it up. It has a couple of nice exit points, but there are plenty of those within 15 miles on BLM land, where it is all legal. That is where Ammon broke his leg.
CDC has one of the safest exits in the whole SW. 600+ feet, overhung by 100 feet, eliminating wall strikes. The Navajos still own the momument, and you can't set foot in the canyon without a guide. We happily paid our guide and used the same guy every time.
Once we were there over thanksgiving. They invited us to a big dinner in one of those small res houses. Carl Boenish had found the place, and there were BASE pictures all over the wall. They made us sit at the small table while the children and elders ate on the floor. They insisted.
Another time we found a nice overhung spot in CDC. We found out who owned the small cornfield at the base. She was like 90 years old and didn't speak English. Her kids drov her in. She was sitting in a recliner on the back of a truck, and built a fire to keep her warm. Then we jumped it all afternoon. She got quite a kick out of it. Maybe it was because white men hated us that they were so affectionate. Anyway, it was cool.
It isn't all about aesthetics in those places. In Yosemite it is. Nobody dayblazes anything in the valley, and any tourist who is lucky enough to see it is a rare bird. You don't fly out over the meadow and do lazy circles for all to see. You burn off altitude over the trees, and then swoop in, land, and are gone in one minute.
I used to crawl beneath boulders and pull leaves over me if I even caught a whiff of possible ranger danger. They knew that I was living in the SAR site, but they never could quite finger who I was.
Anyway, in this country, big cliffs are almost always under NPS control. They should change their minds about Lake Powell and CDC. Some of the other, remote and out of the way sites should be legal. There wouldn't be many problems if the jumpers ran it. They know who is qualified. There isn't any BASE association to manage it right now, but it could be done like the Kuala Lumpur jumps. Invite only. Experts only. If you did that, thousands of jumps would go down with little chance of deaths.
One year they did 2800 jumps in 2 days from the Petronas tower with no incidents. You get that quality of jumper if it is an invite only event.
It is a long way from being organized, though. Other than the BASE numbers, there is no central hub, and the number of jumpers who could handle CDC or Lake Powell is huge. Very few would go to all that trouble to watch it.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 25, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
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Since nobody seems to be reading my links. Here is a copy of the history of legal building events in Kuala Lumpur:
KL International Tower Jump 2001
On 1st February 2001, Malaysia and the world witnessed the first big BASE jumping event organised at Menara Kuala Lumpur. Dennis McGlynn, Avery Badenhop and Harry Parker of the International Pro BASE Circuit (IPBC) were contracted to organised this BASE jumping event. 50 BASE jumpers from around the world were invited to participate. It took place in conjunction with Federal Territory Day celebrations in Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia was the first country in the world to host such a big BASE jumping event off a building. 434 jumps were completed during this event. The event gained recognition around the world and BASE jumping fraternity.
KL International Tower Jump 2002 and Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2002
With the success of Kuala Lumpur International Tower Jump 2001, the event was extended in 2002 to include Menara Alor Setar in Kedah. These dual events made Malaysia the only country in the world to undertake two events of this nature:- 'A WORLD FIRST, TWO TOWERS, TWO JUMPS'
The Menara Alor Star International Jump 2002 was held on 31st January 2002, which coincided with the Sultan of Kedah's birthday celebrations. The KL International Tower Jump 2002 was held on 3rd February 2002 in conjunction with the City Day Celebrations.
The entire exercise was well received. Both the jumps achieved their objectives with the number of participants and the extensive media coverage.
Over 40 BASE jumpers from all over the world participated.
Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2002 LogoKL International Tower Jump 2002 Logo
Malaysia International Championship of Xtreme Skydive 2002
Menara Kuala Lumpur first participated in the International Championship of Extreme Skydive / World BASE Cup 2002. The event took place from 28th December 2002 to 5th January 2003 and was organized by MIXSA - Malaysia International Extreme Skydive Association. 57 participants from 16 countries took part in the event. Menara KL was selected as a venue for the Aerial Acrobatics category, which is the world's first championship ever held of that kind.
Malaysia International Xtreme Skydive Association Logo
Malaysia International Championship of Xtreme Skydive 2003
In 2003 Menara KL again took part in International Championship of Xtreme Skydive / World BASE Cup. This event included Petronas Twin Towers for the accuracy part of the competition and KL Tower as the venue for the aerial acrobatics category. The event took place from 28th December 2003 to 5th January 2004. 43 competitors from around the world participated.
Xtreme Skydive 2003 Logo
KL International Tower Jump 2004 and Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2004
After skipping the traditional KL Tower BASE jumping event in 2003, Menara KL continued with its international tower jump event in 2004 at both Kuala Lumpur and Alor Setar Towers. The event was extended to have 2 days of jumping at KL Tower and 2 days at at Alor Setar Tower. Over 40 BASE jumpers from around the world participated in the event. KL International Tower Jump 2004 was held on 13th & 14th March followed by Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2004 on 17th and 18th March.
KL International Tower Jump 2004 LogoAlor Setar International Tower Jump
KL International Tower Jump 2005 and Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2005
In 2005 the previous organisers of Dennis McGlynn, Avery Badenhop and Harry Parker gave up continuing to organise the event due to the last minute nature of how things are done in Malaysia. They did a really wonderful job of organising past events and it was a shame to lose them. Taking over organising the event in 2005 was President of Malaysian BASE Association, Aziz Ahmad and President of Australian BASE Association, Gary Cunningham. Aziz was the founder of the event and has been an integral part of the event since its inception. Gary had attended all KL Tower Jump events since 2001 and usually completed the most BASE jumps at each event.
Kuala Lumpur International Tower Jump 2005 was extended to be 3 days at Alor Setar Tower and 2 days at KL Tower. Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2005 was held on 23th-25th September where 300 BASE jumps were complete by 12 BASE jumpers. KL International Tower Jump 2005 was held on 1st and 2nd October where 650 BASE jumps were completed by 46 BASE jumpers.
Alor Setar International Tower Jump 2005 LogoKL International Tower Jump 2005 Logo
World Record - Most BASE Jumps in 24 Hours
On 31st December 2005, Australian BASE jumper Gary Cunningham set the world record at KL Tower for the most BASE jumps done in 24 hours. He completed 133 jumps. Gary was assisted by a team of 12 people packing his parachutes.
24 Hour BASE Jump
World Record Breaking Attempt
by Gary Cunningham
31st December 2005 - 1st January 2006
Gary Cunnigham
KL Tower International BASE Jump Merdeka Circuit 2006
With the continued success of events, Malaysia had proved itself as world leader at hosting BASE jumping events. It was now time to step up to an even higher level. Malaysia became the first country to host a BASE jumping event which included 5 different buildings. The event ran from 12th - 27th August 2006.
It included the following buildings:
Menara Tun Mustapha, Sabah 12th -13th August
Menara Pelita, Sarawak 15th August (Trial event)
Menara Alor Setar, Kedah 17th -18th August
Menara Komtar, Penang 20th August
Menara Kuala Lumpur 25th - 27th August
The event attracted **68 BASE jumpers from around the world. Over 1880 BASE jumps were completed during the event.
**
KL Tower International BASE Jump Merdeka Circuit 2007
The 2007 event saw 98 BASE jumpers from 18 countries join Malaysia in its golden celebration commemorating 50 years of independence or merdeka. The event was held over 3 weeks from 8th to 26th August and included 6 buildings in 5 different states of Malaysia.
Menara Pelita, Sarawak 8th August
Menara Tun Mustapha, Sabah 11th -12th August
Menara Alor Setar, Kedah 16th -17th August
Menara Komtar, Penang 19th August
Menara Kuala Lumpur 24th - 26th August
Menara Telekom Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur 26th August
2780 jumps were completed during the event.
KL Tower International BASE Jump Merdeka Circuit 2007
KL Tower International BASE Jump Merdeka Circuit 2008
After after the huge effort BASE organiser Gary Cunningham put into organising the biggest and best event in 2007, he was replaced in 2008 when he refused to invite problematic BASE jumper Amanda Vicharelli back to the event after her efforts to undermine the previous two events. Menara KL CEO unexplainably thought it would be a good idea to hire Amanda and a couple of her friends Stephan Muller and Jojo Rose to organise the event instead. The lead up to the event predictably did now go well and the Menara KL CEO experienced for himself how problematic and incapable his new organisers were. They failed to get any BASE jumpers to come to the event for the full tour of buildings and very few wanted to come to KL Tower. After realising what a big mistake he had made, Menara KL CEO terminated his new BASE organisers from their positions a month before the event started.
To salvage the event it turned into more of a training camp for 10 relatively inexperienced Malaysian BASE jumpers who were given the opportunity to hone their skills BASE jumping off buildings throughout Malaysia. Feeling vindicated, previous organiser Gary Cunningham was the only foreign BASE jumper to attend the full tour of buildings.
40 International jumpers attended the event at KL Tower.
The event was over 4 weeks from 3rd to 31st August and included 6 buildings in 5 different states of Malaysia. **Over 1200 jumps were completed during the event.
** Menara Pelita, Sarawak 3rd August
Menara Tun Mustapha, Sabah 9th -10th August
Menara Alor Setar, Kedah 15th -17th August
Menara Komtar, Penang 23th August
Menara Kuala Lumpur 29th - 31th August
Menara Telekom Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur 31th August
KL Tower International BASE Jump Merdeka Circuit 2008
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2009
The 2009 event took place from 3rd to 25th October. This year Menara KL fully organised the event themselves. They slashed BASE jumping experience entry requirements by a factor of 10 in a desperate attempt to lurer more BASE jumpers back to the event. This was seen as a high risk and irresponsible move by Menara KL staff who showed they had no real understanding about BASE jumping. The event was advertised with a few buildings that it was well know Menara KL was not welcome back to after the fiasco the previous year. These buildings were replaced at the last minute with lower buildings that were higher risk.
The event included 8 buildings in 6 different states of Malaysia.
Kompleks Teruntum, Pahang 3rd-4th October
Felda Residence Hotel, Kuala Terengganu 6th-7th October 2009
Wisma Darul Iman, Kuala Terengganu 6th-7th October 2009
Menara Tamming Sari, Malacca 11th-12th October
Menara Alor Setar, Kedah 14th-16th October
Menara Komtar, Penang 18th October
Menara Kuala Lumpur 22nd- 25th October
Menara Telekom Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur 25th October
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2010
A new CEO was appointed to KL Tower a couple of months before the the 2009 event was due to start. The event was allowed to go ahead but was scaled back to just KL Tower and also an unofficial event at Alor Setar Tower. It was fully organised again by Menara KL in the same high risk fashion as the previous year with no real BASE jumping experience requirements. The focus seemed to be on maximising the number of participants without any real care if participants were capable or not.
The event took place from 28th September to 10th October.
Menara Alor Setar, Kedah 28th September - 2nd October
Menara Kuala Lumpur 6th - 10th October
This year saw the first fatality in the 10 year history of the event. The incident happened on the first day of jumping at Alor Setar Tower and sadly it was a female BASE jump with only 20 BASE jumps. The event continued at KL Tower with noticeably many very inexperienced BASE jumpers jumping in a reckless manner with a few near death experiences. Experienced BASE jumpers were disappointed to see what was once a world leading event decay in such a way.
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2011
KL Tower BASE Jump 2011 took place from from 29th September to 2nd October, coinciding with the 15th Anniversary of KL Tower. This years event was at KL Tower only. It included 4 days and 2 nights of BASE jumping off KL Tower.
88 BASE jumpers from 22 countries completed over 1800 BASE jumps during the event.
This year local Malaysian events management company CD Events were brought back in to organise the event as they did from 2001 to 2004.
BASE jumping organisers Aziz Ahmad of Malaysian BASE Association and Gary Cunningham of Australian BASE Association were brought back in to organise the BASE jumping side of the event, to bring back some standards and order to the event, as they previously did from 2005 to 2007. Gary was a world leader at building display BASE jumps having completed over 1300 building display BASE jumps of his total 2300 BASE jumps at the time.
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2012
KL Tower BASE Jump 2012 took place from from 27th to 30th September.
It included 4 days and 2 nights of BASE jumping off KL Tower.
91 BASE jumpers from 17 countries completed over 2200 BASE jumps during the event.
This year we had a special launch platform built so BASE jumpers could take a running launch. There was also the added bonus of exiting from the crane on top of KL Tower. Some say this was the best event ever.
Event Hosts: Menara Kuala Lumpur
Event Organiser: CD Events.
BASE Jumping Organiser: Gary Cunningham, President of Australian BASE Association.
Ground Coordinator: Aziz Ahmad, President of Malaysian BASE Association
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2013
KL Tower BASE Jump 2013 took place from from 27th to 30th September.
It included 4 days and 3 nights of BASE jumping off KL Tower.
101 BASE jumpers from 20 countries completed over 2860 BASE jumps during the event.
Event Hosts: Menara Kuala Lumpur
Event Organiser: CD Events.
BASE Jumping Organiser: Gary Cunningham, President of Australian BASE Association.
Ground Coordinator: Aziz Ahmad, President of Malaysian BASE Association.
KL Tower Jump 2013
KL Tower International BASE Jump Malaysia 2014
KL Tower BASE Jump 2014 took place from from 26th to 29th September.
It included 4 days and 3 nights of BASE jumping off KL Tower.
108 BASE jumpers from 20 countries completed over 3200 BASE jumps during the event.
Event Hosts: Menara Kuala Lumpur
Event Organiser: CD Events.
BASE Jumping Organiser: Gary Cunningham, President of Australian BASE Association.
Ground Coordinator: Aziz Ahmad, President of Malaysian BASE Association.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 25, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
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Base 104...I agree with you...I rarely visit the Valley anymore because it's a tourist trap and it's crowded as all get out..I'm not for telling others what they can and can't do but legalizing base might increase the circus atmosphere and number of gawkers...When Teddy turned Yosemite into a National Park it was to preserve the unique beauty not turn them into a venue for spectator sports..Whatever..
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 25, 2015 - 02:14pm PT
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The valley is like a city. The rangers used to major in biology. Now they major in marksmanship. As to this statement:
preserve the unique beauty not turn them into a venue for spectator sports..Whatever.. There are quite a few people who watch climbers on El Cap. Fortunately most of the climbers move so slowly that it is a little boring to watch.
Anyone who has hung out in the valley knows how trampled it is, but withstanding a sea change, it will stay that way. It is better than turning it into a Disney Land, so I accept it the way it is.
A bank, multiple stores, lodging for tens of thousands, whole campgrounds for the RV crowd. Hell, there used to be a golf course.
Does anyone think that a magic wand will be waved and these facilities and roads will be removed? That it will revert to nature? Not a chance. Most Americans won't walk a mile, much less ten, and there would be outrage. What's done is done. Just don't make it any worse. No Wal-Mart!
It could be worse, though. Much worse.
edit: please read the post above about the legal events. I tried to put the numbers of jumps in bold type. 2000 to 3000 jumps each event is pretty impressive. It was invite only other than that one year where locals took control and allowed inexperienced jumpers to participate. That led directly to the one death. She had made only 20 BASE jumps. The hand picked lot was mainly people with over 1000 jumps worth of experience.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 25, 2015 - 02:38pm PT
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BASE104 said:
Hell, there used to be a golf course. There still is (at Wauwona, not in the Valley).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
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There are still bars and nobody bitches about them, do they?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 26, 2015 - 10:55am PT
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Yes, but I suppose that we should all be thankful that Yosemite isn't really an amusement park. Not in the literal sense. Despite the urbanization of the valley proper, it could be much worse if the corporations were given free reign.
It could be a lot worse. You can still easily sneak away into the woods and find a little silence. What it is, is a shrine to nature, really. Of course money is to be made in all of the various ways, but if you remember James Watt, Reagan's Interior Secretary, who downright hated wilderness, and supposedly wanted to install a cable car to the summit of Half Dome, we are lucky.
You can still go waste an afternoon laying in El Cap meadow, and soak it all in, with a few interruptions from the sight seeing outfits, which is easy to ignore.
It could be a lot worse. The giant trees are still there. El Cap is still there, the falls are still there.
It could DAMN sure be a lot worse.
Climbers do less damage to cliffs than a hundred feet of sidewalk. BASE jumpers have an almost invisible footprint. Saying who can do what is a tough decision, but the park is for the visitors. Not for the climbers and jumpers. We are nuisances. If climbing didn't have such a rich history, I would bet my ass that it would also be banned if the topic came up today.
If you bothered to read the accounts of legal events posted above, with hand picked experienced jumpers, you will know that it can be done safely. If you add up all of the building events in Kuala Lumpur, there were almost 10,000 safe jumps with one fatality that should never have been allowed. Dean could have easily have done thousands of jumps from El Cap without incident. The proxy flying is more dangerous than any normal old BASE jump ever was.
Buildings are more technical than nigh any jump in Yosemite, the wingsuit lines, aside.
Look at guys who put up hard routes on high mountains. They die like flies, yet they are allowed. For some reason, Americans believe in passing laws that protect us from ourselves. This is no spirit. It has bothered me my whole life. Not being allowed to do something because Joe public thinks it is too dangerous. Well, these are our lives, and we do what we like or are good at, BASE, climbing, or whatever.
Anyway, BASE doesn't self regulate. It would be difficult to do, but we do organize it every year at the New River Gorge Bridge, which has a really tight landing area. Pretty much anyone can jump. There aren't many checks and balances. Despite that, a thousand jumps happen each year. There have been three accidents over the almost 35 years of its history. Just think if permits were only issued to experienced jumpers. You could do controlled jumps every year, and incidents would be nigh non-existent.
Now, I know that the NPS likes to read my posts. To them, I say, we aren't drunk drivers. We aren't drug dealers. We aren't breaking the serious laws that the rangers have to deal with in a population of 100,000 tourists, and all that they bring into the park. So why do you dispatch so many rangers from their duties in an attempt to find them? Perhaps it is different now. I certainly hope so.
I know it can be safely done. I'm not sure it should be. All I can ask is that they don't send a dozen rangers out searching for jumpers. Their reaction is similar to a bank robbery. I've listened to them on the radio for hours, back when the SAR radios and pagers could listen to the LEO channel in the old days, from '85 to '90, when I was most active there. It was full blow manhunt, and went on for the whole day. I need to post up on what happened on one of them, but I can't name names, even now.
The statute of limitations have long run out on me, so I can talk rather freely. There have always been military officers and even cops who BASE jumped. Their stories will never be told. I know of a number of active military officers. I used to have one as my main jumping buddy. If we were ever chased, I would stop while he got away. Special forces guy. Hell, Navy Seals have done it.
I dearly hope that I've made my point that BASE jumps can be made very safe. Simple jumps from El Cap are piss easy. You would have to not include the wingsuiters, though. They really walk the razors edge between life and death, just like many of our old climbing heroes did.
It is an incredible experience from what I hear from them.
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