Discussion Topic |
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 18, 2015 - 11:14am PT
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Since all routes are unique, a climbing route name is a proper noun.
In particular, when a proper noun is used as an abstract reference to something about the climb or something the climb's name references, it creates a further unique aspect.
For example, a line I want to do could be called
Black Watch
or
The Black Watch
In this case I'm noting a reference to wearing the Black and GoT.
But even without the show's reference, we would not truncate The Black Watch down to Black Watch if the FA'ist deliberately labeled it with the definite article.
Discuss...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 11:20am PT
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Zactly!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 18, 2015 - 11:26am PT
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'Black Watch' sounds like an action statement, as though one is looking for black (whatever that might mean)
Whereas 'The Black Watch' sounds like a very dark timekeeping device.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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May 18, 2015 - 11:27am PT
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I'm all about the THE.
Yeah, right, classic.
Not for all routes: Have you done "Do or Fly", or have you done "The Do or Fly", the latter sounds like something a non-english speaker would say.
But thats ok, we have free speech on "the supertopo".
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 18, 2015 - 11:29am PT
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The Mungeclimber and tHe eKat have spoken. The climbs on The El Cap are to be preceded by the definite article.
Now, let's move on to punctuation. First thing we do is kill all the apostrophe misusers. Then we can start work on hyphenation.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 11:31am PT
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Ghost, whatever, do, you, mean?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 18, 2015 - 11:41am PT
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We're with you!
If it's a proper noun, isn't, the definitive article "the', 'The"?
What's the Black? Do you mean The Black?
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stunewberry
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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May 18, 2015 - 11:45am PT
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The Lembert Dome. 'Nuf said. Delete this thread, now.
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AlanDoak
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 18, 2015 - 11:55am PT
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El Cap already has the article, it's in Spanish. Likewise, people commonly refer to it as "The Captain".
Looking on Mountain Project, The Nose is named The Nose. While Zodiac is simply Zodiac. When referring to astrology I'll say "the zodiac", but I'll say "I did a winter ascent of Zodiac.", which I did.
For routes that are named after the features they ascend (the: north face, east buttress, north ridge: of the Eiger, of El Cap....), which could be used as proper nouns or not, then it seems that an article is commonly used.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 18, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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I remember a similar discussion about 40 years ago or so about names at Suicide, e.g. why name it "The Pirate" and not just "Pirate?"
In general, most of my favorite route names lack definite articles -- [Notice how I worded this to avoid using "the."] "Indecent Exposure," "Hot Buttered Rump," "On The Lamb," etc. But then, "The Coming" or "The Yawn" on Medilicott Dome wouldn't quite be the same without the definite article.
John
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 18, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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Wait just a minute John. "On The Lamb" sure looks like it has a definite article.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 18, 2015 - 12:10pm PT
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'The' is presumptuous, like it's the once and future pirate?
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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May 18, 2015 - 12:10pm PT
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the sierras
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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May 18, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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Except it's really difficult to manage "The" is alphabetized route lists when you enter them into a database. Yes?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 18, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
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Good point, Ghost! I guess Tuolumne Meadows just cries out for "the" in its names (see, e.g. "The Cooler,") but there's always "Sharkey's End."
John
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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May 18, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
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I've actually been thinking about climbing the On The Lamb this summer.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 18, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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I hate to be picky, but it's the Sierra Nevada, or the Sierra, not the Sierras.
John
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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May 18, 2015 - 12:43pm PT
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What do I say if I plan on climbing all of the Sierra Nevada mountains this weekend, and all of the Sierra Madre mountains next weekend??? Can I say that I'm climbing the sierras this month???
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 18, 2015 - 12:44pm PT
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I hate to be picky, but it's the Sierra Nevada, or the Sierra, not the Sierras.
I, too, hate to be picky, but you've forced my hand again...
"The Sierras" is just fine. There are many "Sierras", but you damn ignorant Californians keep thinking the one in your back yard is the only one, and applying your definite article corrections accordingly.
In fact we could even start a list of "the Sierra Nevadas." I've visited two of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 18, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
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I've visited two of them
Si, la vista desde El Sospiro del Moro es muy Bueno, no?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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There can be only ONE The Sierra!!!
Bruce, almost, but that can be fixed by a crafty db person, or with the right software, I'd bet.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 18, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
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The On The Lamb on the The Lamb.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 18, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
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Si, la vista desde El Sospiro del Moro es muy Bueno, no?
Si. Muy bonito, y muy triste.
..."Llora como mujer lo que no has sabido defender como un hombre"
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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May 18, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
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When going down to LA (if I have to) I always take 5 to 405. Never "The 5" to "The 405". I don't live in The Fresno. Or The California.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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May 18, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
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I climbed the Your Mom?
I climbed the Ben Dover?
Doesn't work.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
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Convention based then?
Subjective?
Cats and Dogs living together! Mass hysteria!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 18, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 18, 2015 - 03:12pm PT
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What's up with that? Seriously!
I think it's because THE Aliens that landed THE Ark on THE dark side of THE moon ordered Walmart to close six stores in parts of THE southwest. THE aliens are now operating out of THE tunnels under THE Walmarts, and are beaming out signals to confuse you into misusing language.
It's part of their plan to take over THE US through their control of THE Army.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 18, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
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THE Open Book
The Tahquitz; well, maybe not. But THE Nose works.
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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May 18, 2015 - 06:02pm PT
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la sierra?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 19, 2015 - 12:48am PT
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The Russians and the Chinese don't even bother with them. They do just fine.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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May 19, 2015 - 02:02am PT
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so if we drop the the, and then all that bothersome identifing verbiage that follows it, we'd have a clean slate, quiet and good reason to get back to what we do best: arm waving and finger pointing
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 19, 2015 - 06:06am PT
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They're use specific.
Ie, I'm not going to start calling it "The Astroman," "the Lucille," etc :)
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 19, 2015 - 06:15am PT
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The nerve and the absurdity of this.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 19, 2015 - 07:57am PT
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Anyone else find hat SoCal affectation of putting "the" in front of highway numbers ie "the ten, dhuuude" insufferably annoying?
I disliked it when I heard as a provincialism in the 70's and dislike it even more now that it is quasiuniversal! The dumbing down of America; we are devo!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 19, 2015 - 08:07am PT
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What are we sposed to say, "I'm taking five today instead of ten?"
No, I don't give discounts.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 19, 2015 - 09:49am PT
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Haha I thought about this for quite a bit some time ago. At times it is nicer to leave the THE out because it doesn't go together as well with the name of the formation. Like in "The Fortress - The Siege (IV A1 5.10)" for example. Repeating THE twice doesn't sound right to me, even though it is grammatically correct. :) But it goes well in "El Capitan - The Nose," or "Angel Wings - The Valkyrie."
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
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So what is the rule of grammatical construction that we will all follow in perpetuity?
1. when "I" say so?
2. when emphasis is needed?
3. anytime pretense is needed?
4. when a route has been around long enough to gain classic status?
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wayne burleson
climber
Amherst, MA
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May 19, 2015 - 02:36pm PT
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I remember Ritner Walling telling us stories in the Gunks about his early ascents of "The Jackie" and "The Baby".
We thought it was hilarious that he used "the", but it definitely added to the aura of those intimidating (5.5-5.6)routes...
Does anyone else remember Ritner?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 19, 2015 - 02:46pm PT
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I, too, hate to be picky, but you've forced my hand again...
"The Sierras" is just fine. There are many "Sierras", but you damn ignorant Californians keep thinking the one in your back yard is the only one, and applying your definite article corrections accordingly.
In fact we could even start a list of "the Sierra Nevadas." I've visited two of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more... If you're coming to ignoralifornia to climb then you're likely going to be climbing in the Sierra. You could be at Pinnacles or somewhere else, but you won't be in the Sierras. We know there are other Sierra ranges. That changes nothing about proper grammar or use of language. That's like saying there's lots of Fords so I'm gonna call mine a Mustangs.
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