Leaders Get Prority.

And tell Sandra that Happie said she needs to get some cajones. Leaders don't let gumbies pull gumby BS. How else those people going to learn, if they get away with that kind of carp?!

Would you really apologize, pull your rope off the climb you got to first, and leave? I don't think so.

One would hope that a TR'ing party would recognize that it's nice to not have someone above you while you are on the sharp end, and that a leading party would recognize that someone wanting to TR it has as much right to be there as they do.

I'd like to revise my response and say that I totally agree with your ethical perspective and you handled the situation perfectly :-)

"Viet Nam is over, why would I want to stay in Canada?"

If someone politely asked if I was TRing if they could lead through I'd say yes (has never happened to me but I've traded laps on each others TRs before) but for it to be expected or demanded, sorry ain't gonna happen and I wouldn't demand it.

Actually thinking about Leader gets priority, I do see if a tie breaker is needed the leading party should go first because they will typically be quicker.

And climbing "schools" are typically the worst offender. Sadly they are teaching people this is ok.

Mike with respect to the ethics of it - I think what you're saying, both by the reason you gave the topropers and the title of your thread, is that leaders are ethically entitled to have priority over topropers - that all things being equal, leaders should be privileged over topropers. What I'm so bad at saying is that I think that's just the way human ethics work. We want to be privileged and also to believe that the reason that we're privileged is because that's the ethical way for things to be.

I would have enjoyed watching that.

When I do Splitter Camps at Indian Creek I will keep a top rope going only until another party shows up to do the climb. I offer them a ride or, if they are there to lead the climb, I promptly pull the rope.

Bwaahahaha. I've seen that at JT as well. People lacing up a crag with top ropes and claiming ownership all day.

I agree, though, with what John M and Pyro say. "We won't be long. Would like us to set up your top-rope when we get to the top?" really means, "No, you can't go before we do the climb." The difference in tone between the two approaches, however, can result in vastly different levels of hostility and, perhaps, remorse.

Of course you were there first and suggesting they had any right to the route by giving it up would have been a bad example. I find an upbeat "There's no one behind us. You can be next." works well. I'd probably go one further and offer to put up their rope for them after following the route. That way they'll spend the 3 hour toprope sesh on a route I've already done rather than finding another route and ending up on the anchor I was going to use later.

I usually say hey you guys don't mind if I lead this route?
I won't be long ... Thanks so much!

I assume that by leaving the names of the routes out you must be hiding something?

That is not going to happen. They shall wait their turn.

We could choose to flip that and say that leaders should give topropers priority and respect where they are on their climbing journey and be supportive of how scary it seems and how risky it is to be a noob and support them learning and gaining experience on their path to being the awesome climbers that we are.

You know how to handle those situations, you little troll.

I've had times when I'm with a group and about to set up a top rope and somebody shoes up wanting to lead the line. If I figure we'll be on the route for some time I'll say why don't you go ahead of us, seems like common curtousy, which I guess isn't so common. Or if we've been on the route for some time and somebody comes up with a long face realizing they'll have to wait for awhile I'll offer them to use our rope and toprope it.

I could see if you guys were already up there tossing the rope down

Take it easy, Big Guy.

I liked to have some space and not feel rushed doing something risky I was not yet super comfortable with. :/

most new climbers come from the gym so banging the shiet out of something on TR and getting everyone in the group to is perfectly "normal" for them ... there isnt much of a "lead and follow" mentality where you lead, yr partner follows and its ready for the next climber ...

because of this gym start IMO there is a lack of outdoor ethics and respect for the route and other climbing parties ... now this isnt always the case and most things work out fine usually, but it happens often enough.

"We top rope here. If you want to lead, go somewhere else!"

So, like Mike, I also became a total dick and soloed a couple more routes. And then (confession time) I stole his Swiss Army penknife. If that person was you, no, you can't have it back.

The rockfall can be forgiven – we’ve all dislodged a rock accidentally or witnessed rocks falling in climbing areas like this. What we thought was unacceptable was the laughter and jokes that immediately followed the fall, and the further three rockfalls that were created by the group as they top roped the route again and again.

I know that the incident didn’t involve all of the university group. Speaking to another team from that group, we learned that these were inexperienced climbers, and they advised their fellow students that they shouldn’t be climbing in such a loose area of the crag.

I no longer go to the Gunks but even before any bolted anchors, other parties dropping a rope on you, was a constant problem. This went on for years, so much so that it became a regular part of the climbing experience. A long stern, critical look at all who past to elicit any response,
" What Are You Looking At?" was the sign that the person might be rude.
A Rude MoFoe, can and will get you hurt , ruin your day or your life;+< by dropping things on your head.

Big Mike "First Come First Served" has always been the accepted norm and I agree with you.

That being said I would usually offer to trail a rope up for them.
Courtesy pays. We were all noobs once.
What attitude from other climbers worked best for you back then?

The only time i would ever make a stink about top ropeing tying up a climb would be if they were top ropeing the 1st pitch of a multi pitch climb.

Best way to have friends is to be friendly. You can often turn an azzhole nice by just being friendly.