Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 09:32am PT
|
But when something leads to a large percentage of everyone who participates in the sport dying, one has to wonder about the participants. Great guys and gals, no doubt, but why the moth to flame aspect?
Because it makes them feel alive.
|
|
Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 09:46am PT
|
Let's make sure the movie gets extensive billing so more young risk takers get into the hunt.
Ironic coming from someone who is largely known to the current generation for his how to crack climb clinics.
Edit to add topical content: sounds like an interesting film. Hard to imagine being one of the first to try out skydiving equipment in this application.
|
|
maddog69
Trad climber
Ut
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 09:55am PT
|
Lar Go Pro
|
|
rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 10:41am PT
|
Wow that looks fun and glorious! Let's try it.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 12:46pm PT
|
Trashman.....have you noticed that as skill increases in roped rock climbing, danger lessens. In base jumping as skill increases it seems that so does the risk.
So many injuries and deaths among the best proponents of the sport, including the man this film is about. It appears that increased skill leads some to push the envelope a little further.
But, unfortunately, the saftey net afforded by roped rock climbing isn't there for base jumping.
Sharma, Caldwell, Jorgensen and the like continually push the limits of what is possible for humans to climb with no increase in risk.
I'm referring to "roped" climbing. Soloing and alpine climbing also have risks that are obvious to everyone.
I've soloed and I've done many risky alpine climbs. I guess it's a function of risk vs. reward. Its up to the individual , just make sure you get into something with eyes wide open, not shut.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
|
I just watched the trailer, and most of the people talking used to be good friends of mine way back when. I keep in touch with a few. We are getting old now. Still alive and living, but all have retired from BASE but a couple who still do something now and then.
I can't really describe what it is like without writing five paragraphs. Let's just say that the feeling is serene.
I can't wait to see it. People have been yelling for someone to digitally copy all of Carl's film. He made movies that made the rounds of every DZ in the country.
I've been out of it for a long time. Hank is very active, so talk to him about what is going on today. The gear is much, much, better, but the jumps look the same. It has gotten safer over the years. There are just so many doing it now.
Wingsuiters changed the game in a huge way. They turned a 12 second delay into a minute or more of real flight. In the old days we just tracked away from the wall. We would have been all over that.
The film covers a time when everyone knew everyone and it was a small community. Even when I got into a couple of years later, the hardcores all knew each other and we traveled a lot. Now the community consists of thousands.
I can't wait to see the film now that I've seen the trailer. It sure brought back old memories.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
|
Base.....I agree with you. Normal base jumping with the equipment advances is likely as safe as climbing in Chamonix.
I did about 120 jumps during my time in Special Forces. While most were standard military static line jumps from 1200 ft. we did get creative at times because of special mission needs. Including jumping at night from 600 ft. Into thick forest. Some of the jumps were much harrier than the standard ones.
Wing suits are a whole new issue. Flying at that speed so close to the rock requires precise control....the slightest miscalculation can be fatal. When I said that base jumping didn't have the saftey net of roped rock climbing I was refering to wing suits.
I'm sure that my alpine career was nearly as dangerous as anything going on today and credit my survival to a big dollop of luck on top of whatever skill and judgement I brought to the table.
Suffice to say that a small percentage of any population will always push the risk/reward envelope.
|
|
Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 07:32pm PT
|
Xaver Bongard said don't bother.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
|
Excellent film. Most docs are nowhere near this realized.
JL
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
May 18, 2015 - 11:34pm PT
|
It seems wingsuiters are rediscovering something the barnstormers found out nearly 100 years ago.
Proximity flying, while exhilarating, is too dangerous. The air is invisible and powerful, it flows like a cross between a river and a boiling pot of water... turbulent and everchanging...to many unknowable variables. Pure Russian Roulette
Plus they are flying a very poor aircraft with a horrible climb rate and low speed.
Basic flight concepts that somehow the wingsuiters are unaware of or ignoring.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 08:20am PT
|
Lot easier to know ones self and the rock than it is the air. But even there is room for error too.
We accept what risks we will.. but do try not to fool yourself as to what they are. That is not accepting risk..it's just being ignorant.
|
|
snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 09:12am PT
|
I am psyched to see this as carl is a legend to many of us.
I will be so bold as to state some general ideas. yes, the air is unpredictable and fluid more than rock or whatever. I think that is well known and we are not finally figuring this out. We know we are gliding and have no engine, that the air can drop out from under your wings at any time.
the time of exit is a factor for some jumps, but not all and many details of the recent events are only known by a few. i know there is video and we may get more info from that so to debate is fine, but lets get the facts before we critique and say how stupid or naive one is to risk such and so on and put others at risk blah blah..
horizontal speed is around 80-120ish and one can get more speed by diving then changing the angle back to horizontal flight, even a small amount of vertical gain has been achieved by a few select pilots from this technique.
I have looked at the notch so many times and it sucks that two incredible people had a dream that eventually took them from us. fly free my friends, you are in our hearts and we are devastated, but will carry the torch in the name of flight.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 11:52am PT
|
NPR is playing an interview with Carls wife right now
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
|
lets get the facts before we critique and say how stupid or naive one is to risk such and so on and put others at risk blah blah..
I was not under the impression that the points put forth by Climbsky2 were anything but underappreciated facts, nor did I hear anyone saying how stupid or naive people were. Simply that the lessons learned by the barnstormers 100 years ago were apparently going unheeded by many in the proximity crowd, evidenced by so many great athletes getting smeared as of late.
JL
|
|
snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
|
JL, i was responding to many discussions all over the internet and felt the need to state such. topics easily degrade on this forum and this is very dear to me.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
|
This thread is about Carl and the earliest days of BASE. Let's keep current events seperate.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 03:22pm PT
|
Go see Sunshine Superman
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 03:40pm PT
|
Well, it's Proud to "onsight" in climbing. But that's NOT. The proud rte in flying! The Proud line in flying is having all the beta available for said rte.
That said,
When I got my Single engine, Pivate Pilots license. I had to learn all this information about clouds. Then(at age 25), I was like; WTF? How does knowing what clouds do, help me fly a plane? Now I understand, clouds are your first visual fact as to what the air is doing.
The MOST important thing I learned about from the FAA was about "Ground Effect". For becoming a pilot anyway. But ground effect is one thing to hear about. It's entirely another to pilot through it! Its never known what to expect! "Gound Effect" is the phenomenon which takes place with the air within 13 ft of the earths surface. 14 ft and above the air acts totally different, or, maybe the same? There's many things that cause variables, and everyday can be different. It effects Hanggliders to 747's. But they only usually come close to earth once a flight, and figure it out on the fly.
I just wonder if squirrel suiters are trying to fly this close to the planet, through notches, and alongside ridges, and what not. Shouldn't we hope they understand the certain amount of wisdom we do hold about piloting?
Maybe a way WE could open a conversation as to making Base jumping legal in places like Yosemite. We could offer a level of knowledge and understanding by acquiring a license for "Base Piloting". Government approved ofcourse. Then, set up dessinatted drop zones and times. These obliviously precurred where not to be offensive to the unbeknownst public.
We mandatorally require a airplane pilot to acquire a license BEFORE he can pilot others. Reason being, for SAFETY! Shouldn't we care so much for Baser's as to require a certain amount of educated information before they go hucking off the captain?
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
May 19, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
|
hey there say, BASE104, thanks for sharing the extra info, on the subject, and jumpers, etc...
i am not a fan, of it, but i really do understand why the folks that do it, desire to do so, and i love and respect them... being a mommy, type person, though, i sure feel extra sad, when they die--especially when it is in young or prime life...
humans have so very many wonderful skills and things to share, that a friend, lost, so soon, means we get to know less about them, and have less time to enjoy hearing what they are and love to do...
THANK you to chris for the mention of the movie-link...
and thanks again, to BASE104, for the bits of history, as to carl, and his wife...
say, also, I DID SEE AND READ ABOUT THE 'bridges' ... i think i even posted something once, about a recent event that they were going to have... (not back from the old days--it was something, just a few years? ago)...
prayers and hopes, to all the BASE jumpers--and to beloved friends, of email, of the few, that i know, from taco...
will go see the trailer, now... :)
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!