Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 29 of total 29 in this topic |
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
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DPM climbing is my new favorite internet mag. Bravo. :)
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
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Great article and videos. Thanks for sharing!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
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We want these test-piece problems to be carved in stone
Now THAT'S funny, see what he did there?
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
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If the americans are finding kneebars and feet beta that make the problem easier it seems to me that Gioia could be a contrived eliminate on a chossy boulder. I'm not sure how "classic" that is. Regardless of the grade.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
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Even if Ondra says its the approved beta...
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 18, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
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Right on, Killer K. This ain't a contrived gym climb either!
On another note: The Burrow Files is some seriously funny/entertaining sh*t.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 18, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
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Darn kids probably didn't even hang their own draws! Why I'd sure like to see 'em try a 5.9 off width…Hmmmmph!
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coolrockclimberguy69
climber
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
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If the dick fell off of Michelangelo’s “David,” we’d definitely glue it back on.
Better yet, glue it onto a rock climb. Talk about a crimper!
edit: more like a knob, amirite?
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
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^^^^^ Lol!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Mar 18, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
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I don't buy into the notion that the longer the route-
it bumps up a grade or something (wheel of Life etc)
Ondra's single moves speak for themselves. [Click to View YouTube Video]
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Mar 18, 2015 - 10:00pm PT
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Roger that Biotch, unless of course we're talking a long problem or route, where endurance is a factor. cf. Reid Yosemite guidebook that specifically incorporates endurance as a factor that goes into a rating.
gawd damn, that vid is sik!
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Mar 18, 2015 - 10:32pm PT
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"Better yet, glue it onto a rock climb. Talk about a crimper!"
You'd have the White Wedding problem - the more it gets used, the bigger it gets.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Mar 19, 2015 - 06:31am PT
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Nice reference to an interesting and well thought-out article but I think it deserved a better thread title. At any rate, the thread title did catch my attention.
Edit to add a quote from a Bruce Cockburn song:
"I believe it's a sin to try and make things last forever
Everything that exists in time runs out of time some day
Got to let go of the things that keep you tethered
Take your place with grace and then be on your way"
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:47am PT
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Looking at Gioia, I don't see chossy. I see bulletproof…gneiss? Those are some damn small holds on a steep rock….impressive.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:04am PT
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I think it deserved a better thread title. Yup
I like the quote: "What would Jesus Glue?" from the article LOL. Had our finger on the trigger to post that when "ego baloney" beat us to it.
Good subject for discussion IMO.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
therealmccoy from Nevada City
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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Well written article, I enjoyed.
Or should we admit our impermanence and the impermanence of the world around us? Maybe our cherished climbing experiences are ours alone—fleeting moments of joy to be experienced just once and never again. ( or in our own memory banks, but once again, for us and us alone )
I have to agree, sounds very ego driven to me. Poor form. This is an issue that will continue to arise over and over again. As climbers are I don't believe there is every going to be a universal consensus agreement on practices on this issue. Because of this, it seems to me that it just reverts to local ethic. And being that the locals seem to have made their position clear, to me, this paints a clear picture of what the local ethics are in Italy, at least in terms of bouldering the classics.
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Five15Factor2
climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 09:30am PT
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From the article:
"...a better foot hold which made the 2nd crux easier too."...
"Why the Americans started using the crumbly foot hold is a mystery."...
" Adam Ondra chimed in at 8a.nu to say, “100+ climbers who [previously] did or attempted the stand start did not use this loose foot hold.”"
What mystery? If a foot hold allows a climber to move over the rock, then he will use the foot hold. 100+ climbers using harder beta does not make the easier beta wrong. Maybe it's my route climbing (non-bouldering) background, but shouldn't the easier beta be considered "correct"?
Furthermore:
"According to Core, the foot hold would have continued to crumble..."
I don't see how this is a problem, it either crumbles to nothing or soidifies into a hold.
"...Gioia deserved to be restored to its original line so that it could be again equal to every climber who has tried it in the past and will try it in the future.""
What about when the holds start to get polished, and the edges worn down? Will Core recreate them with plaster to ensure they are exactly as good as they were when he sent? Or does the problem only need to be "restored" if it gets easier?
The whole thing seems like ego to me; a First-Ascensionist who had his beta busted and was facing a down-grading of his coveted test-piece. But I'm not there and media-hype is bullshit so I'm not gonna judge from behind my keyboard.
Everyone who has done development has modified the rock and crafted the route to some degree or other, everyone has a different idea of what is acceptable. Unless you take the mantra of no bolting, no cleaning you are compromising.
Ultimately I don't care because rock climbing is pointless in general, and the only thing stupider than bouldering is caring about what some guy did to a 10ft high boulder on the other side of the world.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 19, 2015 - 09:55am PT
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"Ultimately I don't care because rock climbing is pointless in general, and the only thing stupider than bouldering is caring about what some guy did to a 10ft high boulder on the other side of the world."…….
….lotta words from someone who doesn't care. Just saying.
It looks like the local guy who established the route has had a fairly intimate relationship with the thing and that he is really excited to share that with others- just look at his interactions with Adam Ondra at the base, and the way he gets all the visitors to sign the wall in his house, and how he marks their ape index, and his obvious delight at his kids. If I had to judge I'd say he's motivated by genuine interactions with like-minded humans and the joy of shared experiences, and wherever ego fits in it's down the list somewhere.
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Five15Factor2
climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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Really? I don't agree.
Bolting? Trundling? Scrubbing? Breaking off loose flakes? Crumbling Crystals? Brushing off rock dust? Ever grabbed a polished hold? You're contributing to that polish, you've modified the rock.
….lotta words from someone who doesn't care. Just saying.
How many words would appropriately indicate that I don't care? I'm just joining the discussion, killing time on the internet.
Seems strange to me that genuine interactions with like-minded humans and the joy of shared experiences could be so greatly impacted by a crumbly foothold.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:55am PT
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DPM is SOLID!
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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No doubt those are some hard moves on small holds and worth the effort. Ondra himself called the boulder "un-impressive" to look at and not very aesthetic. The impressive part is the movement.
The part that cracks me up is classic status of an eliminate. You could take a foothold off of a few V14/15 problems and probably turn them into a so called V16.
Not that grades matter to anyone right? I heard that in the broad spectrum, climbing rocks in general falls somewhere between bowling and basket weaving in importance.
But it sure is fun to partake and analyze and critique.
I agree with the change in thread name.... I should of gone with Classy Italians or Hey! That foots not on!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 01:22pm PT
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I should of gone with Classy Italians or Hey! That foots not on!
Now you're interfering with my Indian Rock memories of 40-45 years ago.
John
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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Or "The Gioia of Glueing"
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crøtch
climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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Will somebody please restore the low right foot scoop at the start of Stem Gem? I'm not getting any younger and I need that tick for my 8a scorecard.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Mar 19, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
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"Ratings don't mean sh#t."
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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Bouldering and free solo are the purest forms of climbing imo and part of that purity is to take what nature gives us. Glue is not part of the natural way. For that matter any creating/manufacturing of fake holds or in this case destroying holds for any reason other than, possibly in the rare case, safety, is not part of letting nature take its course. Since "Gluia" needed glue to be held together then it is not that "classic" to me. If my fellow American boulderers found a new foothold that made it easier for them well then schucks that's just part of the game :) The mental part of climbing is to find your own beta and your own way to do the climb using whatever you can get your hands and feet on. The path of least resistance or the path with only the solid holds you need, within reach, are the truly most classic and pure lines.
The fact that "Gluia" needed to be reinforced with glue to begin with makes it no surprise to me that there would be a foothold that crumbles in or out of existence. It sets a dangerous precedent and is a bad influence if a top notch climber in the limelight on such a world famous line is not at least discredited in some way for doing this so it discourages others from damaging the rock and imho, taking away from what climbing is all about. First ascents are always harder to do then repeats but that doesn't mean we have to change the game in order to force everyone to do things our way and try to force nature not to change. Change is inevitable.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 03:22pm PT
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That's what's up. ^^^
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| Messages 1 - 29 of total 29 in this topic |
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