French *Street Artist* Grafitti Tagging Joshua Tree N.P.

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Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 14, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
Some diminutive Frenchman who fancies himself a *street artist* has been busy tagging up Joshua Tree.


http://laist.com/2015/02/28/andre_street_art_joshua_tree.php

It seems he's a friend of Banksy, but not nearly as talented.

He calls himself “Monsieur A", or "Mr.A" which real is close to what some folks around here are calling him.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 14, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
Too bad you don't have any tall cottonwoods out there.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 14, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
This type of activity needs to stop. My initial reaction is to commit violence on the purps. But we need to live in a more civilized world and educate them.

He should be arrested and put to work cleaning up his own work and that of others, for about 800 hours.



I love this type of thing on appropriate urban surfaces.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
^That makes sense. I might add taggers should all be fined, too. I am, however, at a loss as to what constitutes an appropriate urban surface.


 OK by me
Inside of sewers
Underneath side of manhole covers
Anywhere in Merced (hahahahaha - got ya mouse)
Pito Wilson's house
Freeways (asphalt) (doesn't matter at speed, else something to stare at)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
we need to live in a more civilized world and educate them.

Oh, I'm sure some 'education' could be arranged, like behind the Circle K.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
C'mon locker, its "avante garde"
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
Todd Gordon posted that up a coupla weeks ago in another thread- I think there was some background about this guy there.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
I do have one question. How did he get up on the rock?
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 14, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
its a troll...he saw the uproar when that woman was painting in national parks and he is doing it to get attention and ruffle feathers.

Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Mar 14, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
Somebody put up 10k and I'll go Hemlock the disrespectful little poodle.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
therealmccoy from Nevada City
Mar 14, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
I really don't think its extreme or wrong or "begetting more violence" to think that this guy deserves a good old fashioned ass kicking.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 14, 2015 - 10:46pm PT
Those who can, do.

Those who can't, smear their feces on something beautiful and try to accept the negative attention as better than none at all.
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 14, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
He has a sculpture of mickey mouse with a hard on in his gallery. Yawn.....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 14, 2015 - 10:54pm PT
this is obliviously a photoshop troll.

for a man to actually commit such a perversion it'd HAVE to be in the dark!

cause during the day, any JoshuaTree resident would tie his nuts in a knout

then comes the nuclear fallout.

no way that's art.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2015 - 07:44am PT
Yeah, the stocks would be a good punishment.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
therealmccoy from Nevada City
Mar 15, 2015 - 08:11am PT
Nut, why do you have to be right so often? Probably just a fake internet troll but man the idea of this sh#t pisses me off.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 15, 2015 - 08:16am PT
I've always been a proponent of the stocks for graffiti artists. Lock them up and let the public piss on them and spray paint their asses perhaps to drive home the public displeasure with these kinds of actions.

What a fuctard. Frenchie can't even use that "I grew up in the tough inner city" bullshit excuse. He's just an affected as#@&%e. Go paint rocks in your own damn country. Worst thing is I bet he has copy cats as well.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 15, 2015 - 08:18am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2587692&msg=2587705#msg2587705

From this thread:

this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork

Mar 1, 2015 - 09:19am PT
On the street André is known by his graffiti-artist alter ego, the tag Mr. A and for his concept “Love Graffiti.” Mr A is a funny, round face, with a huge smile and a wink that follows you everywhere, and now is all over the world — and often in pink! — a color that is pretty much taboo in the graffiti world, except when itʼs Andréʼs monochromatic style. The Love graffiti are tags of peopleʼs names commissioned by their loved ones that he does in pop colors near where they live, so that they canʼt miss it.

Unlike the past 20 years of street graffiti, where a street artist imposes an anonymous tag for an anonymous crowd — some merely staining a depressing urban landscape, a few becoming famous gallery artists, such as Keith Haring, Kenny Scharf, KAWS, Neckface, and of course Samo — André has hesitated to go from the street into the galleries. Rather heʼs given a new sense to his graffiti art, first, by by-passing the walls of the gallery and introducing his imagery into clubs or night spots, which he participates in opening and promoting all over the world. In doing so he has proactively changed the nightlife of cities such as Paris, New York, and Tokyo. He also reinterprets the meaning of graffiti art, from underground opposition to a more friendly and utopian alternative to the day time. André is one of those rare people who is able to make things happen naturally. His genuine generosity extends into the romantic utopian nightspots he creates, and where people meet.

His second move, after having gone from the wall of the street to the walls of clubs, is choosing drawing over classic canvas work. In quiet moments, he prefers drawing on scraps of paper or in notebooks, which heʼs constantly filling, but rarely shares with others. This is a more personal and intimate activity, far from the commercialism of art."

What a crock of sh#t. Nothing about this is artistic.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 15, 2015 - 08:42am PT
I've harped about this a million times. Within the contxt of an urban setting graffiti can be artistically and culturally appropriate. It is never acceptable on natural surfaces outdoors no matter what some "artist" wants to claim.

Funny Modernhiker who broke the story has been very polite in his interactions with Frenchie... who has just been a defensive ass. Simple request.. could you please verify this was on private property with the owners permission? Answer.. f*#k you.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2015 - 09:07am PT
The guys at Modern Hiker, for their efforts, received a snotty cease-and-desist letter from Monsieur A's French lawyer.

http://www.modernhiker.com/2015/03/10/mr-andre-issues-legal-threat-to-modern-hiker/

Like any other Red Blooded American, instead of cease-and-desist, Modern Hiker had their lawyer send Monsieur A's lawyer a nice go-fly-a-kite letter.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2015 - 09:23am PT
First they come with their poff, and now this?

I like their wine and cheese, but seriously, they have a real problem respecting natural resources.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 15, 2015 - 09:25am PT
A smaller rock with an "XO" painted on it was indeed inside the park boundaries and it looks like the paint has been removed. I'm a bit unclear about the larger piece of "Mr". The article discusses two tags simultaneously.


On Instagram, André replied, "This mr was made with love at friends privet back yard and not in your national park! [sic]" However, a thorough investigation by Modern Hiker and its readers revealed that the rock indeed was inside Joshua Tree, near the trailhead of the Contact Mine—confirmed by a reader in the area who took a photo and posted it on Facebook. André locked his Instagram account and deleted the photo shortly after being called out by Modern Hiker, but it has been saved for posterity on their own account.

Can anyone clarify if the small or large boulder is the one at the trail-head?
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 15, 2015 - 09:32am PT
If you read everything.. (not just that initial link)....The maps and pictures in some later posts on Modernhiker's site make it look like its the little boulder, not the large one that was found inside the park. I'm guessing the large one is somewhere inside the park based on dickwad's reluctance to cough up a private land owner though.

Edit to add: I don't think its ok even on private land. Paint a goddamn building if you need to make a statement.

Edit: Modernhiker is a class act btw


Quote Modernhiker:

I can’t tell you if there’s a direct link between things like this and the truly staggering amount of graffiti that’s appeared in Joshua Tree over the past few years, but when street artists as famous as Mr. Andre post photos that even appear like they’re painting in nature without permission, it sends a powerful message that the outdoors is a fine canvas for your street art. And that, we feel, is a message that needs to be stopped.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 15, 2015 - 09:33am PT
What would be nice is if the NPS brings charges on him and makes sure he is no longer allowed to travel to the USA. Seems possible
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 15, 2015 - 10:09am PT
I just read the instagram thoroughly... to clarify...its the little boulder that was found at the trailhead within JT park.. the article in the initial link confuses the facts about two separate incidents.

http://www.modernhiker.com/2015/02/27/is-mr-andre-tagging-in-joshua-tree/

Under the picture of the large tag it says...



THIRD UPDATE:

Jeff from SoCalHiker noticed this image on Mr. Andre’s web site (under Graffiti, Mr. A if you’re interested).

Not sure where this is but it certainly looks like Joshua Tree, doesn’t it?

Reader DESERTED just noted the EXIF data in this image is from July, 2013. We still don’t know where this is but it’s definitely not from this recent trip to Southern California. It does, however, show his willingness to tag on natural surfaces.

This was from 2013 though... it may have been located by now?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 15, 2015 - 10:22am PT
Funny. Mr A's “graffitis are all about love and have the greatest respect for nature.” But when asked to clarify location and permission to do the "art work", the answer is F-you. Sounds like love to me.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Mar 15, 2015 - 10:39am PT
Supertard, home of a bunch of whinny hypocrites. . .when James erased the Lighting Bolt , aka Grafitti you all had a fit too. . .stupid Americans. . .
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 15, 2015 - 10:48am PT
^^^^^^^^^^Overgeneralizing, at least a bit. So someone removed the lightning bolt once? Huh.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 15, 2015 - 10:53am PT
Aw, Dean, you zinged 'em with that lightning bolt, didn't ya?

Good one, dude.

As to this artist's "art," his stick figures suck.

Tami could do better than Mr.A.

His sauce, c'est weak.

Any "message" there is becomes forgettable as soon as the mind realizes how bad the art is, why look at it other than to marvel at l'audace?


One wonders, though, how much of our NA petroglyphs are nothing more than bath room humor.

One also wonders, how does one remove an unsightly or lewd petroglyph?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 15, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
Thank you, Tami.

Once for the understanding of my remark (sorry if it got to you, Locker, but I was, in my way, attempting to draw our resident expert into the picture, in a manner of speaking) and again for such lucid and high-toned criticisms of street punks, er, "artistes."

I'm a big fan of Christo, in spite of his name, which may be short for Christoforo. Christ, I'd like to think that's the case.

But his works are creative while not actually being disruptive because their effects are unseen for the most part, and do little environmental damage, I'm pretty sure.

I had this flash of a team of taggers spreading out in the Marin hills and going to work on his sheets...

Thanks again for the insights.

Cheers!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 15, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
It is a pathetic display of ego and nothing more. The utter lack of respect for the existing beauty he is defacing with his foul "art" is contemptible at the least.

Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 15, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
Thanks again for the insights.

Yeah, ditto on that one. I enjoyed the depth of understanding there too.

Reminds me of something I read once:

The high mission of any art is, by its illusions, to foreshadow a higher universe reality, to crystallize the emotions of time into the thought of eternity.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
Christo's art installations are boring as hell, until one of them kills someone. Then they're terrifying.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Mar 15, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
It's ugly---But is it art?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 15, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
Hey, I DID SAY THAT I WAS A BIG FAN!!!!!!!!

IN VIEW OF ALL THE TRASH TALKING...













































































I'd like to say I'm not all THAT big a fan of Christo, just that I've been impressed a few times and figure no harm no foul.

Sort of like Locker's literary ef-farts, notable for intellectual sophistication as well as its artificial (as opposed to naturalistic) qualities.

He is a Modern Mannerist. I hope that label sticks like glue. Like a large butt plug in blue. :0)

True blue. I like the way you stuck up for poor defenseless Tami, bud.

Who casually mentions her book Humph about the world's tallest big mountain and then criticizes modern humanity's fixation with SIZE!!!!!!

Just kidding the kidder, kid.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Mar 15, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
Mr. Azzhole is more like it . . . eurotrash fool.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
Yeah, ditto on that one.

Ditto-head me too. Tami, that was so well articulated... Gosh.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 15, 2015 - 07:48pm PT

Yeah. Let's hope crisco's 'over the river' never makes
it over the Arkansas near Buena Vista, CO. . .

(It's pronounced buuna vista!!!!
chill

climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
Mar 16, 2015 - 09:30pm PT
the eurofag

No need for that. Lets just call him a duche and leave it at that.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 16, 2015 - 09:38pm PT
I actually like Mr. A - it is too bad the ego had to get in the way of great street art. He's got some stiff competition, both better in a different way.

Mr. A does have a certain joy, a bit broken with the bad eye, but dancing anyway... in simple line form.

Just so I am not on the wrong side of the line here - my wife is mad as hell, and I support her completely...

LOL. She just said "Keith Haring rip-off with less effort" as I read this post back to her.
mwatsonphoto

Trad climber
Culver City, CA
Mar 16, 2015 - 09:39pm PT
I believe he wants to be called Mr. D0uche. Or "Mr. D" if you are into the whole brevity thing.
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Mar 16, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
I've met quite a few non climbers who view bolts and chalk the same way some of you are voicing your opinions over this tagging.
Intrusive and damaging to the natural resources.

Who's right, who's wrong, who's selfish?

If this was done a 1000 years ago it would be held up as art and a historical artifact and the crag would be closed to climbing.
Funny how this art stuff works.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 16, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
Infantile scribbling. I have taken dumps more interesting than that, but did not feel the need to share them.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 16, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
if that is art, then I was a Rembrandt at age 4.

Your ego is no less than his, I will give you that.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Mar 16, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
Come on Ron...

PS, I want to climb in Nevada and look forward to a tour from you someday :)
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Mar 17, 2015 - 03:45am PT
It's a 'photoshop' of grafitti right?







Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Mar 17, 2015 - 05:31am PT
From Mr. A's web site:

On the street André is known by his graffiti-artist alter ego, the tag Mr. A and for his concept “Love Graffiti.” Mr A is a funny, round face, with a huge smile and a wink that follows you everywhere, and now is all over the world — and often in pink! — a color that is pretty much taboo in the graffiti world, except when itʼs Andréʼs monochromatic style. The Love graffiti are tags of peopleʼs names commissioned by their loved ones that he does in pop colors near where they live, so that they canʼt miss it.

Unlike the past 20 years of street graffiti, where a street artist imposes an anonymous tag for an anonymous crowd — some merely staining a depressing urban landscape, a few becoming famous gallery artists, such as Keith Haring, Kenny Scharf, KAWS, Neckface, and of course Samo — André has hesitated to go from the street into the galleries. Rather heʼs given a new sense to his graffiti art, first, by by-passing the walls of the gallery and introducing his imagery into clubs or night spots, which he participates in opening and promoting all over the world. In doing so he has proactively changed the nightlife of cities such as Paris, New York, and Tokyo. He also reinterprets the meaning of graffiti art, from underground opposition to a more friendly and utopian alternative to the day time. André is one of those rare people who is able to make things happen naturally. His genuine generosity extends into the romantic utopian nightspots he creates, and where people meet.

His second move, after having gone from the wall of the street to the walls of clubs, is choosing drawing over classic canvas work. In quiet moments, he prefers drawing on scraps of paper or in notebooks, which heʼs constantly filling, but rarely shares with others. This is a more personal and intimate activity, far from the commercialism of art.

IMO he's beyond becoming "educated" as some have suggested. He needs to be punished so hit him where it will hurt....the galleries where he shows his work.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 17, 2015 - 05:37am PT
All the rest I'm cool with.

Unless it's your building being defaced.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 17, 2015 - 05:37am PT
It's a 'photoshop' of grafitti right?

Unfortunately... not

Who's right, who's wrong, who's selfish?

If this was done a 1000 years ago it would be held up as art and a historical artifact and the crag would be closed to climbing.
Funny how this art stuff works.

EuroD#@&%e hack is wrong and selfish for starters. This isn't 1000 years ago... it's NOW. Tagging natural features, especially in a protected area, is totally inappropriate on every level. There's just too many human cockroaches running around with their finger on the trigger of a spray can, and a sense of entitlement to f*#k sh#t up these days.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 17, 2015 - 05:53am PT
he should focus the yearnings of his heart
on his own assehole;

with some disciplined yoga
followed up by excess popeye smoothies
he could probably bend hisself
around, doubled-back
so that he could drag a dipped-paint brush
around his anus
and the tickles would stimulate
his urge to pass stool
and he'd shoot diarrhea all
over his own face
but his steadfast expression
would not be interrupted
so his artistic brush strokes
would persist
and he'd finish up
jesus' portrait upon his asse
with his butt-hole
right in the center of
god's forehead,
from which a little drip of crimson-colored bowel-funk
trickles.

and we could call his position
and the fleeting sculpture represented,

"in god we distrust,"
or, "in god we disgust."
couchmaster

climber
Mar 17, 2015 - 05:57am PT

Can we take up a collection and pay Tami to teach him how to draw? That's after everyone kicks his ass of course:-)






bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 17, 2015 - 09:03am PT
ok, just to poke the tiger...



what's the difference?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 17, 2015 - 09:06am PT
It's a shame that some out there either a; don't see the inherent artistic beauty in nature, or b; feel that their own interpretation of art is more valuable than the inherent artistic beauty in nature.

I guess it's all about perspective, not everyone out there is fortunate enough to see beauty as others do.

I feel sorry for the guy, he's missing out on a lot that our world has to offer.

That, or he's a raging narcissist, spurned on by the desire for recognition and conversely, dollars in his bank account without a care in the world of the impact. Wait, would that make him a sociopath?

Either way, pure speculation on my part.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 17, 2015 - 09:18am PT
what's the difference?

At the risk of taking the bait I would note that the Ancient Ones' rock
doodles were religious in nature and, secondly, while they may not have
considered the rock 'theirs' it was more theirs than anybody else's. They
most certainly did not do it for self-aggrandizement and acting out due to
poor potty training.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:13am PT
but reilly, how do you know? how do you know those pictographs aren't ancient graffiti? you know, runs like a deer saying, "f-you little bear"? and would you be more accepting if the alleged j-tree artist was religiously motivated to demonstrate his praise of god?

caesar's famous "i came, i saw, i conquered" was in fact graffiti; graffiti boasting about various work crews also appears on the pyramids

claiming we know what these ancient drawings mean simply demonstrates our own arrogance (or ignorance)
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:21am PT
The big difference is the ancient one is where we came from, and the stick dude is where we are at. And there was a lot fewer of us back then than there are now. Where I am at is no new "art" on rock or tree on "public" lands.
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:28am PT
narcissist not artist

http://www.mrandre.com/

a vandal of nature


André
Monsieur André
Monsieur A
Mr. A

André Saraiva




Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:31am PT
bookworm, Juan de Fuca yer knott. I ain't risin' to that bait. ;-)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:42am PT
Looks like booky 'gets a chub' from that frog, too...

Whatcha think of that, hillbilly?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
Not on 'natural' rock or trees, must be cool, right?



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
"Not on 'natural' rock or trees, must be cool, right?"

Looks like shite, to me.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
Oh sweeeeet jebus, that's some ugly stuff. Ok, no new "art" on anything on our public lands. Probably a loophole in that too somehow.......
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
I am opposed to the death penalty but do believe in justifiable homicide. Which I think fits this situation.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
This thread is a bunch of folks preaching to the choir and the thread drift of what constitutes good art vs. poor art while interesting is totally irrelevant. We've had a natural resource tagged in a NP and its both a shame and a crime.

This Mr. A likely makes his living or at least some $ from his work despite its debatable merits, that's not the point. If we are really interested in creating change in behavior his sponsors and supporters need to understand that his actions have no place in our treasured natural areas. He has plenty of an opportunity to express himself elsewhere but not in JT or anywhere else that represents a limited and shrinking resource we need to preserve.

There are many artist here on ST, the world is flat and electrons are cheap and easy to send. Messages to potential show sponsors and others should be sent so they understand that such support for people of poor judgment will effect their ability to be successful. I've alerted folks I know in the art world, this dip sh*t needs more than an education, he needs consequences.

End of rant.
10b4me

Social climber
Mar 17, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's own attributes. The term originated from the Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water.

Narcissism is a concept in psychoanalytic theory, introduced in Sigmund Freud's On Narcissism. The American Psychiatric Association has the classification narcissistic personality disorder in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).

Narcissism is also considered a social or cultural problem. It is a factor in trait theory used in some self-report inventories of personality such as the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory. It is one of the three dark triadic personality traits (the others being psychopathy and Machiavellianism).

Except in the sense of primary narcissism or healthy self-love, narcissism is usually considered a problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others. Narcissism is not the same as egocentrism.
-from Wikipedia
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Mar 17, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
Feel free to copy, paste and edit for your own use.....

Ok artist family and friends this is for you,

Attached is a piece of “art” that was painted down in or near Joshua Tree National Park. The artist calls himself Mr. A and he has a web site. He’s French and came here recently to tag this rock in JT. Please distribute to your art world friends, galleries and associations to express outrage. There is no place for this in our treasured natural areas that must be preserved for future generations.

This guy is beyond education, his remarks regarding fed back on the inappropriateness of the place have been replied to with a hardy “fu*k you”. So I contend the only way to affect his future behavior is for him to have consequences. Places that show his work should be boycotted, those who plan on showing it should be made aware there’s a whole contingent of people that would just assume he’d expire from breathing his spray can fumes. Given their willingness to show his work represents their own values.

End of rant, thank you for your cooperation in advance!

Trust all is well with you, best regards…..

Charlie D.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
" Places that show his work should be boycotted,...."

Can anybody provide a listing of locations where his 'work' is displayed? I'd happily give them feedback.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Mar 17, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
apogee, I wish I could find some....Mr. A has certainly had a number of shows in the past:
I'll post up if I find something, chances are he's long gone and has no intention of returning to the states.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
Spread the word ( does someone have the ISIS Facebook contact? ) that the eyeball-on-stilts Monsieur A spews all over everything is actually an image depicting The Prophet Mohammed.

The problem will soon take care of itself.

A Fatwah will be commissioned, and Monsieur A will find himself scrambling all over everywhere he's ever been trying to erase everything he's ever done to save his sorry ass.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
It's worth remembering that this dickwad is only the latest of several such narcissist 'artists'. Remember that blonde 'artist' who did virtually the same thing?

It's a symptom of our current culture. Silence = acceptance.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 18, 2015 - 12:42am PT
hey there say, zbrown...

i tried to get the spray paint for you, :)




just for fun, mind you... :)


note:
i've seen, sadly, the spray-messes in a few spots, that i have traveled past,as well... though, 40 years back, though, it was mainly on old abandoned buildings.....

makes spots look 'confusing', jumbled, and far too busy, for one
to savor the nature, all around... and draws attention to human-works, and away from the earthy 'wonders', works in their own right, all around...

:(
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 18, 2015 - 06:10am PT
loophole: the national mall is "public lands" with lots of "art"...also the national gallery of art and the national portrait gallery and the white house and the capitol, etc.

i'm not supporting the artist (and generally despise most modern "art"); i'm just pointing out an apparent contradiction; i believe we should preserve the ancient "art" because it's ancient and is some record of the human lives that came before us; however, i don't consider them "sacred" because i don't know what they mean

we DO NOT KNOW what this ancient art means; it could be just native graffiti, just an innate impulse for humans to "leave a mark" of their passing

yet, it seems that many of the libs here ascribing sacred status to these indecipherable scribblings are also quick to voice contempt for art (or artifacts) we can define with absolute certitude as sacred (i.e. the infamous cross in the mojave desert, which also came "before us"...oh, but that's christianity so that doesn't count)

here's another poke:

let's assume for sake of argument these are "sacred" drawings...how do you know they weren't painted by a conquering tribe "imposing" their religion on the vanquished?
crunch

Social climber
CO
Mar 18, 2015 - 06:48am PT
bookworm, the standard used by the Feds (in Yosemite and elsewhere) is 50 year cut-off.

Human artifacts and engravings/paintings more than 50 years old are regarded as historic, worthy of preservation.

Human artifacts and engravings/paintings more recent that this are regarded as trash and/or vandalism.

So, thousand-year-old petroglyphs/pictographs (much, much older than 50 years) are worthy of protection. Graffiti from last few months is vandalism.
sempervirens

climber
Mar 18, 2015 - 07:51am PT
That is horrible, tasteless, and low art. Book worm makes a good point about religion though. A religious symbol painted on a rock in JT would be just as horrible and illegal regardless of who deems it sacred. Bookworm's attempt to blame anything on the libs is divisive bs, maybe watching too much TV?

Ancient petroglyphs are different simply because of their age. And IMO worth protecting. We don't know what they mean. We can speculate but it makes no sense to assume their meaning and use that assumption to bolster your argument.

Not every artifact over 50 years old is worth protecting. Your national lands have plenty of worthless can dumps. But someone upthread (Apogee, I think) mentioned correctly a federal statute that protects artifacts over 50 years old. There is, however a federal process to remove artifacts from protection if it can be shown that there is nothing new and unique to learn from them.

I like to participate in these discussions simply for the exercise in logic (or the lack thereof). We can learn a lot.

Kinda ironic that the inane comments about hard-ons and such are about as clever as the art (or non-art) that we're discussing.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 18, 2015 - 10:57am PT
Pretty "cool" work neebee, do you have a patent on it?


I suppose the "cool" comment was indirectly directed to you dr, since I read the post, however, it was more directed at the mindset of folks who say it's just an old dam that nobody cares about.

I can't say for sure since I had moved away from the area for a long time, but the dam lasted from 1902 to very much later before it became an easel for weasels.

When we used to ride our bikes out there in the 1950's there weren't any works of art to be viewed.

They are building alot of sound walls along the HWY805 these days and I notice they are treating them with some type of chemical to make grafitti removal easier. Probably not practical out in the hinterlands. BTW, just how do the hinterlands differ from the homeland?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 18, 2015 - 11:57am PT
Two senses of "cool" above. The taggers think it's cool work. Other folks are cool/ok with it.

May not be an open and shut case here. Examples of murals in Chicano Park in San Diego (basically the park is under the HWY5).




Cool/Not Cool? The neighborhood seems to love them. Some other folks hate them.






apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
"Cool/Not Cool? The neighborhood seems to love them. Some other folks hate them."

Do they have formal permission to use public space as their 'canvas'? If so, then I'd say it's cool, even if I don't particularly like it. If not, then it's vandalism of public property. Not cool.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 18, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
hey there say zbrown...

you know, the park stuff, etc, when folks
set up such a spot, these art-things or culture-things can be very nice...

it all depends, the thing is:

mutual agreement... :)



oh, say, mouse has shared that art work from the merced bridge...
say, perhaps he can post that up, as a:

what works, for 'outdoor' 'REAL' art...
as to: 'vandalistic' (my own word, i think?) type
spray-painting and scrippling-on-nature or other's property...


the park, that you showed, reminds me of another park, type, idea,
that i had seen other pics of...
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Mar 18, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
Chicano Park has a "mixed" history, but now has been legitmized.

For the magnitude and historical significance of the murals, the park was designated an official historic site by the San Diego Historical Site Board in 1980, and its murals were officially recognized as public art by the San Diego Public Advisory Board in 1987. The park was listed on the National Register of Historic Places listings in San Diego County, California in January 2013 owing to its association with the Chicano civil rights movement. Chicano Park, like Berkeley's People's Park, was the result of a militant (but nonviolent) people's land takeover.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 19, 2015 - 07:49am PT
"bookworm, the standard used by the Feds (in Yosemite and elsewhere) is 50 year cut-off.

Human artifacts and engravings/paintings more than 50 years old are regarded as historic, worthy of preservation.

Human artifacts and engravings/paintings more recent that this are regarded as trash and/or vandalism.

So, thousand-year-old petroglyphs/pictographs (much, much older than 50 years) are worthy of protection. Graffiti from last few months is vandalism."


what you're really saying, crunch, is graffiti (i.e. vandalism) that is 50 years old is "worthy of preservation"...in essence, 50 years from now, you'll be screaming about climbers committing sacrilege for climbing over...the very "artifact" you now call "vandalism"


if i wander backcountry and carve my name on a rock somewhere, i'm only guilty of vandalizing public land IF somebody finds it within 50 years; 50 years and a day and my scrawling becomes an "artifact"

again, i want the natural landscape preserved, just finding the sanctimony amusing...let's just all admit the true source of our outrage--the french!!!
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Mar 19, 2015 - 09:23am PT
Please remember to never look in a Mirror. . .http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2125293/Yosemite-Bolt-Wars


Hypocrite. noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 19, 2015 - 09:29am PT
So let me get this straight....Mister E gets a snarling slapdown, though he's clearly in the same camp, but trollworm gets an attempt at a thoughtful reply, though he's positing exactly what you're opposed to. Fascinating.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 19, 2015 - 11:12am PT
That sunnuvabitch. I'm gonna kick his frenchy arse.

(Nice manip, Cosmic.)
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Apr 26, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-graffiti-20150427-story.html

....On April 1, Saraiva paid a fine of $275 to the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, officials said. He could not be reached for comment.....
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 26, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
If he had done that stuff in some of the 'pueblos' near me, he could be dead by now. Cost would be significantly less than $275.



zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 26, 2015 - 08:04pm PT

$275

Apparently you don't live near me. "El Pozolero" (the stewmaker) works a lot cheaper than that.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 26, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
It's a very simple point.

Most users of national parks and parks in general go there to GET THE HELL AWAY from things like graffatitty and Urban Bligh, "the artist/show-off."

"Look at ME, mommy!"

The poorly-equipped ranger/LEO needs a target so he/she can take out their frustrations on those who tread heavily on the areas they are sworn to defend.

Death by paintball administered by duly-authorized personnel.

Or by a lottery system which allows the average park visitor to have a whack at these * * * *s.(4 letters, begins with "f").
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 26, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
In January 25th, 2009, Santiago Meza Lopez (aka maker) shared his recipe to make “Pozole”, it include two empty oil barrels, several pounds of caustic soda, latex gloves, gas masks, and a pair of “teachers”, supposedly brought from Israel.

This is why it important to support Israel rather than Iran.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 26, 2015 - 08:34pm PT
...however, i don't consider them "sacred" because i don't know what they mean
If that's the criteria then I can imagine most things are fair game.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 26, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
mira Lupe

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 26, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
Cosmic...LMAO
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Apr 26, 2015 - 10:37pm PT
nice Cosmic- those are classic.

Stirring something up with copy/paste - BRB...

%^)
Gary

Social climber
From A Buick 6
Apr 27, 2015 - 05:27am PT
Iskander Lemseffer, an acquaintance of Saraiva and owner of Lab Art, a Los Angeles gallery dedicated to street art, expressed mixed feelings about the dispute.

"When it comes to street art, you do it big or don't do it all," Lemseffer said, standing beside a provocative work of his own: a replica of a movie Oscar on its knees cutting lines of cocaine. "But even I was shocked when I saw photos of what Andre did to that rock."

Los Angeles graffiti artist Kalen Ockerman, 43, who is also known as Mear One, said street art has a purpose that goes beyond the image.

"Graffiti art is the honest voice of the dissatisfied soul — it's a political act," Ockerman said. Then he added, "All Andre did was smear a work of art by mother nature with industrial chemicals to celebrate his own ego."

As the debate goes on, some private businesses forced to paint over graffiti regularly see a certain irony in protests by graffiti fans angry about tagging in national parks.

"I wish they were just as outraged over graffiti on other people's private property," said Lena Kent, a spokeswoman for Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, whose freight cars and engines are tagged on a daily basis.

"Playing devil's advocate: If provoking outrage is not part of your intention as a graffiti artist, why do it?" Jeremy Cross, an artist and curator at the Night Gallery in Santa Ana, said with a impish grin.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 27, 2015 - 06:06am PT
Fvck all of that , it is entitled bullshèt
take away all their freedoms, make them work to eat gruel,shèt in a pit that they have had to dig, and live in tent cities under the same skies they hide from.
taggin' in the dark is a cowardly way to pull crimes.
It was mentioned in some passing way, on the morning news on CBS this morning. Right up there with NYC cops chasing coyotes [Click to View YouTube Video]
crøtch

climber
May 4, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
Combining the Drones in National Parks thread with this one.....

Street artist uses drones to tag hard to reach places.

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/age-drone-vandalism-begins-epic-nyc-tag/
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Our pal “Monsieur A" is back in the news. The L.A. Times posted up a sympathetic screed about him this morning.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-graffiti-joshua-tree-20160707-snap-story.html


According to The Times, he's not an ass hole. He's a "bon vivant", and his asinine scrawl all over our rocks is "a wink — a 'clin d’oeil' — to his fans."

Instead of "impish...impresario", I would have gone with "rat-faced little runt" for a description, but I'm biased.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 9, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
From a 2013 interview

“Everything I do comes from the attitude I learned from graffiti.If I want to do something, I do it. If I want to paint this rooftop, if I want to paint this train, or a place that’s very difficult to access, I’m going to go and paint it. And I’ve kept that attitude with everything I do. I want to do a movie — I do it. I want a nightclub — I’ll do it.”

entitled little f*#k? I think so

He has apologized for his JT antics and swears he will not paint natural feature in the future.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jul 9, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
“Graffiti should only be painted on what humans have built — not on nature’s land and rocks,” he said, nibbling on French pastries at an outdoor lunch table in Hollywood. “Joshua Tree was the wrong place for it, and I am sorry.”

Who removed the graffiti from the boulder in the parking lot?

“I did,” he says. “Four days after I put the graffiti on the rock, I cleaned it off with a bottle of water, a brush and sand.”

Interesting that the lynch mob at Modern Hiker sent Park Rangers on a wild goose chase looking for more graffiti that didn't exist.

“by making people think I went all over the park to deface it, and by posting a 20-year-old image taken from one of my websites of Mr. A on a rock in Brittany, France and using it as possible evidence of vandalism in Joshua Tree.”

“As a result,” he adds, “park rangers had to spend hours and days searching for nothing.”

Mr. A cleaned up his own sh!t, apologized, and paid a fine.
Seems like Modern Hiker cost the Park more money than Mr.A....

Maybe they need to pay a fine and do some apologizing.
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