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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 6, 2015 - 11:01am PT
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A buddy and I want to dream big and set our sights on Astroman. Because it's there. We want to go in with a fighting chance. He's a 5.13 sport climber but with limited trad experience, I am more of a tradie/alpine guy but have not tackled anything above the 5.10s yet. He's smaller and more comfortable on the finger sizes, I have bigger hands and like the wide.
We'd love to spend each weekend in the Valley and prepare for it, but life (job, school, family) gets in the way... So it seems to me that a Wide Boyz style approach to training for this climb may be needed: isolate skills and drills, work them hard at home and in the gym, and then optimize our time on granite when we get the chance.
Your views? Crazy/doable? What would you focus on and how would you train for it? (e.g. endurance vs strength/power, particular widths, drills etc). Hard cragging vs. longer routes? Ways to replicate the climb's demands?
Thanks in advance.
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dhayan
climber
los angeles, ca
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It is a very physical climb so I'd focus on endurance and getting in good "Valley" shape. Astroman really covers the gamut of sizes and tests you in many ways; thin hands endurance crack climbing, bombay chimney, squeeze, thin crack/face, fist cracks and everything in between. The Harding Slot is totally exhausting. If you have lots of strength and endurance you will enjoy it more and if you friend climbs 5.13 face then the last 10+ face pitch shouldn't be a problem. The protection is great and easy to pull through cruxes if needed on every pitch except the last one. Have fun!
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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I'd recommend doing all the 10's at Cookie & Arch Rock first. Then get on the easier 11's at both of those crags. Then do R side of the Folly & Moratorium. As a final prep, do the Regular N face of the Rostrum. That should see you ready for Astroman.
As a side note, I found the cruxes of both Astroman and Rostrum easier than pitches of a similar grade on Cookie & Arch.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Maybe if you can climb the rostrum twice in a day, you'll be ready to send Astroman
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Do Nutcracker a couple times and you're all set!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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The first time for me,
ever
to get to be
the first to say
YER' GONNA DIE
If you are BIG? The Harding slot, the move into and up into the squeeze may be ruff, The modern small stuff is not nearly as important as the really big boat anchors , get the beta
see the old stick figure beta max, in the routes section . For fun and understanding, has anyone recommended Entrance exam?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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If you're looking to onsight it, come back after you get a few more years trad experience. Doesn't sound like you have a chance. Otherwise, stop wanking around and just get on the thing. You can bail from anywhere below the Harding Slot. At that point, you'll know...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Be fit certainly, but this one is less amenable to wide boys style tactics. Unless you have a gym were you can do a lot of cracks in a day.
As others have said it is a very varied granite climb, and you have to be able to do it all to a moderately hard level.
Have fun!
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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
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Nutcracker scares me dudes. That mantle is BURLY #imgonnadie. I think we may lap the Grack a couple of times (p1 only) and then go for Astroglory...
More seriously though, thank you all for the advice. Appreciated. I was hoping someone would tell some crack machine success story like this one: http://climbinghouse.com/2013/04/the-crack-machine.html
But we'll get out as much as we can on some test pieces and see how we fare.
Thanks all.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 11, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
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Believe it or not but we used to have a crack machine in Camp 4 back in the day.
I did laps and pump out on the thing after a days climbing or whenever all the time.
It's one of the best static workouts for crack climbing.
It strengthens your hands to become powerhouse formidable human crack tools.
A secret weapon not to be underestimated and used by many .....
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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2015 - 04:19pm PT
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Werner, it's astounding to read that you used those things in the land of juicy granite cracks... Guess they have their uses after all!
Out of curiosity, how did you use them? Enduro hangs? Horizontal/overhanging for max strength?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 19, 2015 - 05:05pm PT
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George, let's go to the gym together I will give you many tips.
In short you need very good power endurance to not feel like sh#t climbing sustained pitches after enduro corner. Than passing through the Harding slot will be cruxy if you are 180 or more. And if you are not, prepare for a battle anyway. The narrows on steak salathe is a joke in comparison. Than you have a bunch of more sustained climbing that doesn't feel as enjoyable as it should because you feel drained. And a 5.10 R pitch to finish the climb. Your 5.13 weapon will cruise though. I led it and managed to not eat sh#t, and I suck at face.
Do a bunch of cragging at the cookie cliff. Laps on catchy corner. Do the steak salathe. Rostrum (closed now I guess). You can also go do astroboy first to get your feet wet and see how you feel on it. Feel good, continue up, feel beat like a dog rap after the Harding slot. 2nd time will feel better.
Not kidding, some people go to the top to TR the runout pitch. I think it takes away from the climb, but whatever, it is a personal choice of style.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 05:22pm PT
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The crack machine is only for building power and strength in the hands.
Nothing else.
It doesn't do sh!t for crack technique.
When you have good crack technique to begin with and excellent strength and power in your hands
then one will be able to capture the technically difficult harder crack climbs with ease .....
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:57pm PT
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We have pretty good artificial cracks in planet granite gym. My beef with them is that overhanging cracks have really good pods for jams. Would be great if they were completely parallel inside. Would make you work a lot harder to get good jams. Even though I should be thankful we have them available in the first place....
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JohnnyG
climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
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this thread is getting me stoked to climb some granite cracks. But it's still chilly ice season here now in NH. Crack machine it is.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
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Mar 19, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
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Would be great if they were completely parallel inside.
Agreed. I found that if you try to jam outside the pods in "harder" spots it makes for a better workout.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:23am PT
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The first half of the enduro corner is red cam size and much harder for large hands. I'd say if you can do Crimson Cringe ( also red cam size ) you'll walk the enduro, but not a lot else I know compares....
Astroman is next level physical compared to Rostrum - a full step up in burl
Werner, I remember the stories of you rope gunning that thing for Galen and RK's photo shoot. Galen couldn't pay the rope out fast enough.......
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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David
I led the whole climb on a 11mm static line so that Galen wouldn't have to deal with rope stretch and bounce while jumaring and photographing.
Probably never the so called "Supertopo" approved method of climbing technique ......
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:28am PT
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David, I don't know about doing the Cringe as a prep for Astroman. It's like saying if you can summit Denali, you are ready for Mt.Whitney. I did Astroman in October with a friend who failed on the Cringe but hiked Astroman. IMO, the Cringe is harder by far. If you think about it, the C.C. is sustained 5.11 for a long ways. The Enduro corner is sustained 5.10.
I still think the best prep for Astroman is the Rostrum.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:35am PT
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If your hands don't fit in the cringe just lay-back the whole thing ..... :-)
Yowza !!!!!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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Astroman is next level physical compared to Rostrum - a full step up in burl
+1
Astroman is about two notches up in burl IMHO. But if you can do the Rostrum and feel pretty fresh after, I think you would do good on Astroman...
Enduro Corner is the softest 11c I have done in Yosemite, BUT it will leave you drained. If you are leading it, it will kick your ass (if you are one of the people that has to worry about it). It will also be burly for whoever is following with a pack. Something similar to it could be found on Waverly Wafer at the Cookie Cliff. Some physical climbing in the corner with a layback getting out of the pod and than more very thin pumpy first knuckle jams.
I will try to type up an article with a bunch of tips for making long HARD free routes more enjoyable, and post it as a TR? Maybe some people will find it useful.
Werner, or anyone, have you done the Fish Crack? Is it true people layback the crux, or do some people jam it?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:52am PT
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Fish Crack - the Valley's most overgraded 5.12 - right next to the Cringe, the Valley's most sandbagged 5.12. You'd think such a contrast would at least be a few more feet apart.
The crux of Astroman is to get past all the stories and wankery and just get on the thing. You climb 5.11 at the gym just fine, don't you?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 20, 2015 - 11:39am PT
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The crux of Astroman is to get past all the stories and wankery and just get on the thing. You climb 5.11 at the gym just fine, don't you?
Very true as well. When you overthink it, it is the worse. I couldn't pull a move on an 5.11c route yesterday in the gym. Found nothing as hard on Astroman. There is nothing that gonna kill you up there, unless you f*#k up big time, so just try it. You can always bail and come back stronger, and with a better plan.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 20, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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All of this makes me wish I would have hopped on it years back. One summer I and a buddy decided to climb at Arch and the Cookie instead of doing the Captain and did a bunch of things like New Dimension, Leanie Meanie, Nabisco Wall. But Astroman's reputation makes it seem like such a big step up we never even considered trying it. Sad face.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Mar 20, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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Vitaly, why would anyone waste their one and only onsight attempt if you're not feeling fit and ready? Train, get fit, do other, similar climbs, then make an honest attempt to climb Astroman in style.
If someone goes up there and plays on the lower pitches, then the route becomes another project. Classics like Rostrum and Astroman deserve better. Raise your standards to the climb, don't bring the climb down to your standards.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 20, 2015 - 01:38pm PT
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^^^
That's always been my mindset as well. Make myself worthy of the climb for a strong send, or at least a strong effort. I've seen trip reports from people who basically dogged their way up. Fine for them I suppose, but not for me.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
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Werner, way to go on the static - hairball
Bill, you're probably right. I just found that lower part of the enduro so hard.......
I've clearly built the damn route up too much at this point. Only did it once BITD and psyched to do it again soon
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
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Vitaly, why would anyone waste their one and only onsight attempt if you're not feeling fit and ready? Train, get fit, do other, similar climbs, then make an honest attempt to climb Astroman in style.
Climbing is a very individual practice, like yoga, photography and art. Individual has the control over the style they pick for a particular climb on a particular day. I heard of people going to the top to top rope the last pitch because they really wanted to climb the route but didn't feel ready for 5.10R. I heard of others getting a rope gun. Me personally? I gave the Rostrum a very good attempt when I thought it was likely harder than I can do. But I like to give the climb a chance to defeat me too. I like doing things at my limit when the outcome is not guaranteed, but not always. At times I just feel like top roping a bunch of pitches I have led, or have not led and get a workout. Anyway, I ended up falling twice that day on the Rostrum, but was happy with how hard I tried and how well I did in general. It was my birthday too! Came back another time and climbed it clean. First attempt was a much more memorable day that I feel more proud of if that makes sense. On one winter day a friend and I did the first pitches of Astroman because he wanted to RP the Enduro Corner. We were doing JoJo and back than I didn't think that I would ever have a chance to free the Astroman so I was happy to follow. haha. Personally, I do not care as much about my style on established routes, it depends on the day, my partner and what I feel like doing. It is good to be honest with yourself you know. There is no one out there that I care to impress but myself. Usually I try much harder when it comes to doing new routes etc. Established routes are more like training ground to me. I don't even know if there is a free route out there that I am aware of that I want to go and onsight...maybe the Vampire because people say it is really good? Not too many established routes that aren't on big peaks that really excite me. At times I am stoked to onsight or red point some pitch which is challenging for me. But yeah, many ways to skin the cat.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
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Fish Crack? Is it true people layback the crux, or do some people jam it?
I've done it many times.
Laybacking it? Yikes!!! Maybe superman can do it that way?
I've always jammed it although there is a trick to it at the crux that's not obvious.
You have to "read" the crack and you'll "see" .....
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 20, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
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I used to be on the 'save it for the proud onsight' team.
Now I just like to climb stuff. Life's too short.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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Agree with Levy:
"I still think the best prep for Astroman is the Rostrum."
Although, the Slot is something else again. Might have to climb around underneath the Bombay doors of an old B52 for part of that one.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
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Vitaliy,
You make a number a valid points, but I think there is a big difference between having a reasonable shot (i.e. your two hang initial effort on The Rostrum) and being completely unprepared (the OP). I'm with Levy and feel that something like Astroman deserves an honest onsight attempt.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
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Astroman prep A full frontal lobotomy might be in order.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
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The crux moves going from hands to feet on the jug in the Harding Slot is definitely one of my most memorable passages. A sixteen year old Hugh Herr lead it and thoroughly bloodied up his knees in the tussle. Hugh had lead only three or four chimney pitches of any grade before he drew this one.
A big Clog wired wedge was fixed by the jug and I fumbled the transfer and watched the Chouinard flat biner spin off into space. After a long tracking gaze I had to break it off as vertigo was catching up with me.
Hugh and I did it in an afternoon starting right when the Enduro Corner went into the shade. Six and a half hours hauling a small pack and one of my best days in the Valley. We had one false start when I lacked the Enduro necessary for the Corner and fell after slinging a fixed POS bong a couple moves short of the no hands rest. I did my best to suck Hugh through the stance biner but down we went.
Astroman demands flexible technique as several pitches involve face climbing and less than ideal protection.
If you are feeling burly then do it like Ron and Werner!
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1358030/Ron-Werner-Do-Astroman-Galen-Photographs-Rock-Ice-1987
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Apr 15, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
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Geeze the Cringe is way harder than the Enduro corner. The corner is really pretty much 5.9/10a hands to the stem rest where I would jam a couple more moves, place a 1.5 friend and fall into a layback. The Cringe was hard move after hard move at an angle for ever. No comparison.
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