Discussion Topic |
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 5, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
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This gem was posted on MP on a topic about Cochise where the newlings are bitching about old bolted routes:
Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb. That being said wouldn't that mean the runout scarefests are already "dumbed down to the ability of the lowest common denominator"?
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jonnyrig
climber
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Isn't everything a runout when your a noob?
Meaning, if you decide to try climbing, you're already the lowest denominator.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Isn't everything a runout when your a noob?
No, it's not until you really know what's going on that you get smart enough to get scared. At least that's how it was for me.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Thanks Healyje.
Funniest thing I've read today.
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jonnyrig
climber
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so... if you start out scared and continue anyway, are you bold? or just dumb?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb.
It's got nothing to do with intelligence. It's all about sanity. Most of those runout scarefests were put up, and subsequently climbed by, people who were very intelligent. And also batshit crazy.
A lot of us here fit that description.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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so... if you start out scared and continue anyway, are you bold? or just dumb?
Based on reading the taco, I believe this is entirely outcome dependent. If you top out you are a bold hero. If you fall, you were an incompetent dimwit that should have known better.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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No, it's not until you really know what's going on that you get smart enough to get scared. At least that's how it was for me.
You speak much truth there, Gary. My first leads were chimneys - totally unprotected - but where I felt secure. I was much more frightened leading a 5.0 face than a 5.7 chimney. That changed after I spent a lot of time bouldering, and too little time doing chimneys. Only then did I realize that I could fall, and the consequences could be, well, grave.
John
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Runouts do smart people
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jonnyrig
climber
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I believe this is entirely outcome dependent. If you top out you are a bold hero. If you fall, you were an incompetent dimwit that should have known better.
I was just thinking that...
Get a mentor!
shortly followed by:
Sack up!
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Jones in LA
Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
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ive been climbing with a group doing tons of rad development in the stronghold. really stoked to see new lines going up in more obscure areas way in the back on the west seide.
we are notticing though that theirs allot of random bolts scattered around that basically dont look completed.
This is precious beyond words. New School meets Old School!
Full disclosure: the days of scaring myself on those 'un-completed' routes are pretty much over. I now tend to gravitate to the new, 'rad' routes.
Rich Jones
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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So flogging a bunch of clip-ups is like gobbling smart pills?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Johnnyrig, your post reminds me of some other nuggets:
"Always climb with someone more experienced than you." The Mountaineering Handbook by Casewit and Pownall (I really think Dick had very little to do with it) gave us this gem. Query: What is the largest size possible of a climbing party if everyone followed this rule? Answer: zero.
And then, from Tom Patey who, sad to say, had his humorous definitions come true:
Beginner: Someone (often dead) who should be kept away from the mountains at all cost
Veteran Climber: Someone whose death was inevitable.
John
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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So all runout routes were put up by dumb people?
Awesome. I'm a friggin' idiot!!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Wow, all the topics over at MP forum are about climbing, well that's not fun, what gives? :)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ok, you guys win, Ill stop training front levers and start doing sphincter crunches.
Priceless.
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Smart people top rope.
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Isn't that why all the old-schoolers smoke a bowl before climbing? Gotta dumb themselves down enough to do the run-outs. . .
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Thanks Healyje.
Funniest thing I've read today.
Ditto. Still laughing.
edit: Warbler - well put.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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poppycock means the premise in the argument is horsesh#t, but still fun to read. :)
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WyoRockMan
climber
Flank of the Big Horns
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poppycock means the premise in the argument is horsesh#t
Balderdash!
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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a basic aspect of judging someone's intelligence is this - a person of lesser intelligence is not intelligent enough to understand the complexities and nuance of the person of greater intelligence's thought processes, and often thinks that person is crazy, weird, arrogant, or even less intelligent than they are.
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Dude's a pinhead.
Uh, careful there. You sure you understand the nuances of this guy's thinking?
Actually, I'd bet you do and then some, but I can't resist pokin' at ya for serving up such a softball.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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What the person who has that mentality in the OP doesn't understand is the theory of relativity of grades.
I can climb 10 flights of stairs without a bolt and harness and gear because I will not fall walking up a flight of stairs. A route only seems runout to you if even perceive it as "climbing".
I kind of remember a quote from Croft where he said anything easier than ( some 5.11 grade) wasn't really like climbing, it was just like some kind of wierd walking.
So what is an unjustifiable runout for some is a pleasant stroll for others.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Smart people do runouts that they don't fall on.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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You will never experience a quicker high as when finishing some testing hairy runout and clipping something good. It IS more mental than physical most of the time.
Ron's got it. Being in the zone, then the relief on clipping a bolt, or getting in a bomber nut, that's the thing that gets us.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
Winston Churchill
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Does a male retard climber need a big wheelbarrow then?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Facing down one's fear and rising to the occasion of a challenging runout have been a few of the greatest moments of my life.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Dumb me, I always thought runouts were where you knocked down a super meal in a classy restaurant and split before paying. Takes a brave and adventurous one to make this a routine.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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There's lots of kinds of smarts.
Climbing ain't one.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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When you're old you runout of steam.
Been there, done that.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hey Kev, are you saying we were not crazy? And, we never got any glory?
I feel ripped off!
Hey John and Kev, is this the sort of thing we talked about when we had lots of steam? I remember major dust-ups, but not a seemingly constant argument of categorization. I was guilty of it as a teenager at Indian Rocks, but I think I had it out of my system by the end of my first year. Maybe it is just internet amplification.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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How has the climbing of rocks become a sport filled with the sacless?!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Gyms
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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I can't wait to have some dumb days on the Weeping Wall this summer.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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What I find most curious is the general trend of attempting to eliminate risk with the objective of changing climbing from the 'adventure' activity of its past to just another entertainment option (almost skipping the notion of sport altogether in the process).
And even more so that the proponents of this view somehow consider it essential to climbing "progressing" in the future. To me that's about the same as saying building more McDonalds is essential to our culinary advancement.
And an unfortunate side-effect of that 'climbing as entertainment' movement is the inherent and unavoidable 'dulling' of perceptions to the true risk involved with any 'gravity' sport.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2015 - 09:44am PT
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And Steve Grossman gets a special callout in the MP thread:
I missed the last Granitica Syndicato festival but last year's was a great one to attend.
Both Steve Grossman and Chip Chace, when talking about a couple of their first ascents, mentioned that the routes in question could use bolts. Chip said that when he was doing this particular ascent he didn't know how to stop and bolt so he fired it instead. Looking back he thought that maybe it would be ok to add a couple of bolts.
I'm not going to do that but maybe it was the mellowing of age and the infusion of wisdom with the years and increasing brittleness of old bones. I don't know.
I do know I have gone back and added bolts to some of my older routes. But it is a slippery slope to pick and choose.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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It just seems to me that if the bolts or other pro are at natural stances, you should climb between them. Really good routes are in harmony with the stone, and sometimes require that the climber ante up to climb them. I don't understand how someone thinks that is "dumb".
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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How has the climbing of rocks become a sport filled with the sacless?!
Because the new gym generation wants to do all the impossible gymnastic impressive numbers routes without any chance of getting hurt.
5.14 sounds so much more impressive than 5.8X, don't you think?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Many have expressed my sentiment.
If you are at the limits of your ability and run out, not smart.
If you are climbing strong and in the zone, that's what it is all about.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I know who looooves runouts.
White Punks on Dope.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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It just seems to me that if the bolts or other pro are at natural stances, you should climb between them. Really good routes are in harmony with the stone, and sometimes require that the climber ante up to climb them. I don't understand how someone thinks that is "dumb".
Well put!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Smart people who like runouts become skilled climbers.
Retarded people who like runouts just move on to become ice climbers.
Really f*#ked up people who like runouts start free-soloing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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This is a thread that keeps on giving. Well done, Sierra Ledge Rat!
And well put, Kevin.
John
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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| Messages 1 - 47 of total 47 in this topic |
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