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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 4, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
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Clint and I were rebolting at the Pinnacles National Park on Hidden Pinnacle and came across the three similar hangers in the photo. The route we rebolted was put up in 1961. Does anyone know who made the hangers (no points for guessing the Leeper hanger in the lower left)?
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Kor?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Weld-It's dad. Dood got around; those things were/are everywhere it seems.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Was there more details added I take my guess back. I am going with Mungeclimbers dad.
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Bruce, there is a hanger that looks just like it in my 1962 Ski Hut catalog. Says it was made of Chrome-Molybdenum steel alloy. For use with either Rawl Bolts or Dryvin Bolt. Two sizes, Specify 1/4" or 3/8" bolt hole when ordering. Carabiner hole 5/8" diameter. 3/4 oz.........................32cents each. No brand name.
Did Dolt make these, perhaps?
I've pulled some at Tollhouse that date back to 1958 or 1960 I believe and have George Session's initials stamped into them.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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Bruce, there is a hanger that looks just like it in my 1962 Ski Hut catalog. Says it it made of Chrome-Molybdenum steel alloy. For use with either Rawl Bolts or Dryvin Bolt. Two sizes, Specify 1/4" or 3/8" bolt hole when ordering. Carabiner hole 5/8" diameter. 3/4 oz.........................32cents each. No brand name.
Did Dolt make these, perhaps?
I've pulled some at Tollhouse that date back to 1958 or 1960 I believe and have George Session's initials stamped into them.
That all seems to fit. The guys who put up the route were members of the Sierra Club RCS here in the Bay Area and the Ski Hut would have been a likely place to buy gear.
I wonder who the manufacturer is?
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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I'm wrong about Dolt making this, he would never have made something so crude looking. Dick Long made a style similar to Leeper, but they were a little bigger and beefier, and they were bent the other direction, which was bad news for right handers.
Probably just some guy making them in his garage somewhere?
Ask Al Steck!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Everyone thinks that He rested on the seventh day but everybody needs a hobby.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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No shortage of examples of the one on the lower left. We have them up here and I saw them back in the NE when I lived there, so someone must have been selling them.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Those are home made steel strap hangers which could have been made by the FAers or their friends. Dolt, Leeper and Longware made alloy steel hangers commercially during the 60s with SMC entering later.
Anyone with a drill press, vise and a hammer can make a strap hammer like that so if it lacks a stamp you are on your own identifying it.
Lots of pictures of funk here...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/286252/Bolts-from-the-wayback-machine
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Seen way too many exact duplicates of the lower left one in too many places for it not to have been commercially available by someone.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Those are home made steel strap hangers One of them (in the upper left corner) could be.
But the 2 on the right are not.
The unusual thing about these 2 hangers on the right which may not be clear in the photo
is that there is a rounded ring built into the hole where you clip the biner.
Of course the one on the lower left is a Leeper, commercially made in large numbers.
I've seen the Longware model which is similar to the Leeper; we have one on the Friends of Pinnacles hanger example display board.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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A Spencer hanger put to the test.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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The unusual thing about these 2 hangers on the right which may not be clear in the photo
is that there is a rounded ring built into the hole where you clip the biner. I've seen lots of homemade strap hangers like this (often in aluminum too), but never with the ring built into the biner hole. Cool!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Clipped a Steve Caruthers, "bandito-esque" style hanger today at the Cat wall
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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I see what you mean, Greg. It looks like a grommet was pressed into the hole.
I thought Bruce put up another photo from the first time that I looked. Was it just my imagination?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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It looks like a grommet was pressed into the hole. Right. The grommet part includes both aluminum and steel.
I suppose this could still be done at home, if you started with one side of the grommet finished and had a cone/tool to hammer in and finish the other side.
So maybe homemade like Steve thought, but with a fair amount of effort.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
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I don't think these are homemade hangers. All four of them have exactly the same bend in the middle at the exact same angle. It is pretty hard to do that if you are making your own hangers unless you have a template.
Also, there is the grommet pressed into the carabiner hole. That seems like a lot of extra work for someone who is just making gear for their own use.
As 'two shoes' pointed out, these resemble hangers in the 1962 Ski Hut catalogue. Maybe Marty or Stephane can help us out.
And, yes, as I said in the OP at the top of the thread, the hanger in the lower left is a Leeper. Ed only made about 95,000 of those so they aren't very rare or interesting.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And, yes, as I said in the OP at the top of the thread, the hanger in the lower left is a Leeper. Ah, missed that...thanks.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I still have perhaps ten unused Leeper hangers. In the mid-1960's, we considered them superior to the other commercially available hangers, particularly for rappel anchors, because the only other commercially-available hangers were aluminum ones with a slight bend, rather than a 90-degree angle. Roper went so far as to discourage anything but Leepers (without naming the brand) in his 1966 Climber's Guide to Pinnacles.
Incidentally, Ski Hut published that guide, so asking Steck looks like a better idea after all.
John
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Even home made will use a template for small batches, so I'm not sure that consistency by itself means commercial. Ymmv.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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I believe I have one of those grommet strap hangers as well, from a rebolt at pinns.
Jigs are super easy to build and anybody making hangers would surely use one for a bigger run.
Cool find Bruce.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2015 - 10:01am PT
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Look at the photo and notice the rounded corners and how the edges are finished to make them 'smooth.' Most homemade hangers I have seen are made about as quickly as possible. They take a piece of metal stock and just cut it to length and then drill a hole for the bolt and carabiner. These have extra finishing details that seem to indicate the they were made for sale.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Having given it a bit more thought I think that you are right that these were made for sale in a small batch but not likely by a recognized manufacturer.
A potential seller would be concerned about sharp edges cutting sling material which would explain the grommet as a faster way of finishing the clip hole. It also looks cleaner and is more distinctive.
I just bugged Al about the aider configuration that Salathe used so I will try and see if he can recall who made these hangers. His memory is pretty damn good on Ski Hut era hardware so we will see what he says.
Does the catalog listing show the grommet detail at all?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2015 - 10:50am PT
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Here is another photo of all four hangers. Steve, if you could ask Alan Steck that would be great. I have not seen the catalog page.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Courtesy of the Guido Research Team.
I'm going with Ski Hut 1967-68?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Those pages of Ski Hut 1961 don't have hangers,
but maybe Dwight can post 1962?
The 1967 has Leeper and Longware hangers.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Just thought I would add a little spice to the non-hanger pages. You want some hangers? Here you go!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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They look perfectly good to me. I'd clip them.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 18, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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maybe Dwight can post 1962? Sorry, it was Barry, not Dwight.
My bad for a sloppy job tacking on the wrong name to a supertopo handle.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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Here's a photo of a homemade hanger!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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Hey Guido- So I guess the answer is God. LOL
Are the dates on the third catalog page accurate because Dr. Dick stopped making pitons around 1962 based on recent correspondence so 67-68 seems a bit late.
Does the "carabiner hanger" on the first page look like a match to you? I can't quite make out the photo or description which accompanies the item.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I just asked Al Steck about the bolt hangers in the OP and he had no recollection of the grommet detail in anything that Ski Hut sold with his usual disclaimer.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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I have the same 1968 Ski Hut catalog page that shows many LONGware products. But Bridwell told me LONGware stopped making gear by 1964. I guess the question is when did Dick Long start making gear and when did he stop? My earliest LONGware trapezoid hanger that I have is from the FA of the Southeast Arete of Baboquivari climbed March 1957. It was the only hanger placed on the route and I confirmed with David Ganci that it is the original. The hanger was fixed to the rock with a flat head course screw into a wood plug that was jammed into the drilled hole.
I also have another hanger from Gibralter Rock in California. It is unmarked and slightly thinner than the LONGware trapezoid but same shape placed in 1954. Is Mr. Long still around? Can somebody lock in the history of LONGware products, or give me his contact information?
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