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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 2, 2015 - 08:57pm PT
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Hey folks , thought I'd share a little episode from my trip to Death Valley last week . To be accurate, this happened in the Panamint Valley, which is one valley over from Death Valley , but same general area ...
My dad and I were on a small 4x4 trip around the area, I had previously been up in the Inyo Mtns...
And then the Argus range ...
And finally I was coming out of the small Slate Range...
Down on the valley floor , we needed to cross this narrow wash to reach solid ground on the other side ... looks pretty solid right ?
It was firm under foot , but as soon as I crossed it in my 5,500 lb. 4Runner , I quickly sank into some deep nasty mud...
We didn't have too many options , there were no people and only one lonely dirt road about a mile off, and worse , no natural anchors to winch off. An idea slowly formed , perhaps I could dig a channel , similar to a snow bollard , around one of the many clumps of vegetation growing , this just might work !
I got my shovel out and quickly dug the U-shaped bollard in the soft ground ...
I hoped the dense wet ground , the roots stabilizing the vegetation, and the surface area of the bollard would be enough to winch my truck a mere 15 feet out of the wash ... and it worked ! My truck popped right out ...
All total we were only stuck for about 45 minutes . We got on firmer ground and headed off on the rest of our 4x4 trip in the Panamints. Getting stuck with my dad turned out to be a highlight of the trip , and something we got out of together :)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Family teamwork & alpine ingenuity, I love it!!
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C4/1971
Trad climber
Depends on the day...
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ahhh, the old sand bollard.....
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Jones in LA
Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
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Whoa! That's seriously stuck. The Mud Bollard was brilliant. Bravo!
Rich Jones
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pvalchev
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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That's awesome! I've actually used a snow bollard to winch my truck out of a snow drift on an ice climbing trip in the Ghost in Alberta (also no trees around)... good times.
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ClimbingOn
Trad climber
NY
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I'm impressed. Great solution!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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the old sand bollard
I learned to use the Scottish climbing name for them.
Dead Man.
Outside climbing, I've used them to hold down tents in wind, rafts in high & rising waters, but only once to pull a vehicle out of a mud-hole.
At age 15, (about 1963) I foolishly drove the family 1951 Dodge 4 x 4 Powerwagon into a wet field. I buried it to the doors. The only other Dodge Powerwagon in our small Idaho town couldn't winch it out. (what do you expect from a 15 year old?)
I helped my dad sink metal fence posts into solid ground and that "dead man" worked for the Powerwagon to winch itself out.
Shist! I really do need to buy a winch for my 4-runner.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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And people were giving the gym climbers sh#t for parking next to a boulder. Lol
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Lesson for everyone...don't underestimate desert mud. I once had to acquire 10 drunk strangers to manually lift my Tacoma out of the mud.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
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cool story Fritz ... no way I would have been there in August , but if it was August that mud would have been baked through ...
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Nice job on the self rescue.
I've buried my spare tire to use as an anchor before.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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good deal, i fried some points going up townes pass and saw a total of 1 car in a 24 hour period, old folks who did not want to pick up a hippie out in manson country,
bent the two arms together that hold the round contact, bent the breaker plate over a bit and limped over the hill, that valley will get ya,
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, dapper dan... wow, this was really something... glad you got the ' ingenuity' and got out... :)
say, you and your dad, look a lot alike, :)
thanks for the share... great pics, too...
i really liked the panamint area... and death valley...
went through there, so many years, so many years, back...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TM Herbert has some good stories about getting trucks un-stuck in the Utah deserts...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sweet, Virginia!
Wadin' through the waste stormy winter,
And there's not a friend to help you through.
Tryin' to stop the waves behind your eyeballs,
Drop your reds, drop your greens and blues.
Thank you for your wine, California,
Thank you for your sweet and bitter fruits.
Yes I got the desert in my toenail
And I hid the speed inside my shoe.
I want you to come on, come on down Sweet Virginia,
I want you come on, honey child, I beg of you.
I want you come on, come on down, you got it in you.
--From Exile on Main St.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Fun story....creative solution!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Great story! And a great solution; The Mud Bollard is now part of my "tool kit". When useable, looks easier than a sand spike and comealong.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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A friend once got stuck on loose boulders in 3 foot deep water crossing the Ghost River. He drilled a bolt into a big boulder on the bank then winched himself out.
Never leave home without a shovel
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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the passage of man
leaves an aweful trace.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Bollard use brilliant. Be sure to bury them again after use.
Lots of great engineering uses for climbing skills.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2015 - 07:40am PT
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Never leave home without a shovel
Boy you said it there , shovel was essential !
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dan, did yer ancestors come across the country in a Conestoga?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Love it!
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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Cool, I'll keep that in mind too! One fast trick if you're not stuck too bad is to tie some pieces of old rope through your rims and around the tires. Works like chains in mud…. You an also attach a rope to one of the rope pieces through your rims and winch yourself out if you have some sort of anchor, figured that one out in the Ghost one day.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Epic driving threads usually bring some comments about the Ghost. Us Canucks (and a few Mericans) have had many a (not so) fun day in there. Someday I would like to assemble a book of Ghost driving stories.
Gilwad I love your epic picture tale of the Waiperous many years back. Maybe you can post a link to show our friends down south what we deal with on occasion
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nice job!
great trip.. love it!
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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nice Vince. Thats pretty creative. Putting all those toys to work. Now all you need is a snorkel so your engine can breathe underwater! jk
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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awesome!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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norwegian, think this is one time we agree more than 100% plus.......
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Fletcher
Boulder climber
A very quiet place
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Good story... you guy the McGyver of the Day award for that!
Thanks!
Eric
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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my assessment concluded that humans,
of which genus i am marginally part uf,
leave an ugly trace in our wake.
yes ron, i f*#k things up with the best of 'em.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Meh.. looks like a really ugly mess on an otherwise un-molested stretch of desert to me. Creative solution to getting stuck but I don't get all the kudos. Plenty of places to 4-wheel where it doesn't leave scars.
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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Yes, plenty of places to 4X4 that won't leave scars. Also a lot of other activities that aren't so blatantly destructive. No kudos from this gal, just a confused sad shake of the head.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Or you could have waited for the wind to pick up and push you ....
[photoid=401092]
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
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lol ! That might have been quite a wait ...
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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SOme seem to think this to be resource damage. It is not.
I'll have to disagree Ron. It's the driest place in the US. Those plains fill with water but there's no real rain to wash away the scars for years.
My point is that he should have never driven his truck there to begin with.. BTW.. was this within the boundaries of Death Valley National Park? There's that pesky "leave no trace"- thing the park service is always going on about?
Side story speaking of tracks in mud.. Just went out to Wild Willys hot springs yesterday and some braniac drove their vehicle from the parking lot along the raised walkway, and then through the mud all the way to the springs. That mud is bitch to wash off. No digging a ground anchor in that goo.
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TLP
climber
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I'm with justthemaid. The visual resource at a minimum got damaged. If tire tracks are your aesthetic, go to a track. Though the solution merits a small compliment - heck, it's not THAT ingenious - the truck didn't belong in that spot in the first place. We should have got past risking trashing environments that have almost zero recovery capacity just to drive off road, or on marginal dirt roads at times when it's plausible you'd hit these conditions somewhere. It's wrong whether in or out of the Park, though also presumably illegal within. Don't be going out trashing the place and then whinin' about closures, restrictions, and fees. This is exactly why those happen.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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yeah, don't screw up death valley,
sheesh, somebody should drop a nuke on that depressing wasteland,
hideous climate, last known home of the mansion family, yeah, don't mess up that slice of heaven,
whoever visits those tracks will be leaving tracks, get it?
if you live past 18, you are already doing damage to the earth,
unless you walk to work and sh#t in the backyard like i do,
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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The OP hasn't really stated where he was. To be clear... I'm not anti-have fun in your ORV. There's a million miles of off road track in and around the valley that you can legally run your 4x around on without leaving a visual impact that the next guy has to look at. Just because something is technically"legal" doesn't really make it OK though in my personal opinion.
ORV people deal with the same access and impact issues that are the bane of every outdoor enthusiast (more so even), so it surprises me when they support destructive habits that sometimes cause the access issues they complain about. The BLM is generally pretty lenient, but they can and have restricted access. If this happened on Federal land it was totally illegal. When you are out in the middle of the desert, how do you know exactly where that BLM/Federal boundary is?
Give the guy a break? Well, there's this guy, then the next guy then the next 10 guys that get a break and then there's a big mess because everybody is doing it. If there's water in a desert...you can safely assume there is a delicate ecosystem involved... even if it is just some slimy microbes no one cares about... so why not give the microbes a break and drive around?
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Rick Vena
climber
SF,CA
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^^^I agree 100%. Having spent a lot of time in both Panamint and DV, it pains me to see the consequences of mechanized passage. Go walk up Surprise Canyon to see how lingering this impact is. That sh#t takes a loooong time to abate.
It does appear, from the photos, the driver was on a use road. His difficulty crossing it implies the road might be best closed. Digging bollards and plowing trenches in mud that will be visible for decades is proof enough.
Right now, there is a kerfuffle going on in Owens Valley regarding a proposal to expand OHV use.
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TLP
climber
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if he was legal give the guy a break.
In my view, it doesn't matter, no break here. We shouldn't need maps and rules and a bunch of specifications in order to use the outdoors wisely. I drive through some radical dirt road and off road places for work and fun, but I pay a lot of attention to where I'm going to eliminate the chance of making this kind of a mess.
What if somebody posts a TR, they went to Red Rocks and too bad so sad it had rained a lot but it's legal, so they climbed anyway and broke a bunch of holds off a classic climb. Oooops! But it's legal, so give him a break. Eh?
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Thanks Dapper Dan! Can't remember how many time I've seen headlights winking
over in the Inyo's as we were trudging down from Mt Whitney after dark.
4WD's yeah!
Noticed on my map you guys briefly stuck in the mud just south of that huge mining operation chewing away at the mtn side between Panamint and Death valleys. To bad going west from there is verboten due to the new China Lake missile fields.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Actually, running across relics of epics in the desert is kind cool. Good context checkpoint. And pretty rare these parts.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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I like Dapper Dan's contributions. I hope he tried to "restore" the dugup area before he left.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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If this happened on Federal land it was totally illegal. When you are out in the middle of the desert, how do you know exactly where that BLM/Federal boundary is?
BLM land is federal land. You mean BLM and NPS land? Both still federal land. Some ORV use (with many rules) is allowed in a number of National Park Units. Canyonlands for example. Way more BLM land allows ORV use then restricts it.
What exactly are you trying to say? Did I mis-read?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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No- I mis-typed. I meant protected National Park-land. The argument is all over once they start dissecting every word of your posts and pointing out errors. :)
The exact location actually may have no relevance. This could be anywhere in the US. It's the broader issue of our impact on the natural landscape (visual and otherwise) and the mentality that justifies it that is... curious.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Looks like a good time with dad in a bulletproof Toyota.
Very nice fix to the problem, a hi jack just ain't gonna cut it.
Thanks for the tr.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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so i guess we should we ban mother nature from attacking death valley?
after the first good storm those tracks will be gone,
people will use any excuse to get their bitch face on,
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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You rule! Dr Sprock. The mud is a tens of millions of years old and
a mile+ deep in the Panamint Valley.
People razzing about mud tracks there are insane and probably complain
about their signif others not moaning loud enough.
F' em!
4WD & cam'ing pro are our future.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I'm not too worried about the mud in DV
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Looks like he was in the Panamint which except for the far north end of the valley is outside DVNP. The Argus Range is on the west side of the valley and even further from DVNP. I have spent a lot of time exploring that area and can fully understand how easy it can be to get into a pickle like this. There are many roads that cross playas and washes and the BLM simply asks that you stay on the road and use good judgement and not drive around or off existing roads. It looks like Dapper was just trying to follow the existing road and got stuck. Good job getting unstuck and not calling on local authorities for help.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"Thanks goodness there are folks like Dave420 ready to fight to the death, if necessary, to preserve this aspect of the American Religion."
What damage has the money making aspect of the American Religion done to the area?
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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I think women are more analytical then men who seem to be more gungho at conquering things
especially outdoors in a 4x4
I happen to agree with JTM on this one
there could of been alternatives ,less damaging routes, he obviously got around it after he got unstuck
Also I never understand how people document their fukc ups and think its cool
Bragman and the bear come to mind
it is what it is but if everyone did it , it would be really fukced up
Nothing against the OP he has been through the area tried and true
the area is desolate, barren and desolate, he did self rescue, imagine if a big heavy equipment rig had to drive out and extract the truck, triple yuk
But for those of you who think he took the time to put it back more to the way it was than wasnt ,are fools
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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after the first good storm those tracks will be gone
This.
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jonnyrig
climber
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How does any one of you know he wasn't on a road that had been previously washed out? How do you know he wasn't sticking to the established trail?
Go around? Seriously? How far? All the way back? In the OP he clearly stated he walked on the ground and it felt solid, so it was a surprise to bust through into the mud. Are there any of you who could have done better? It's just soooo obvious to you that his truck didn't belong there?
Come on, sac up and admit any one of us out on a dirt road could just as easily have gotten stuck in similar circumstance. No? Then you probably don't belong in the great outdoors. Being climbers, I would have thought you'd understand that things sometimes happen unexpectedly. Why else would you tie in?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I got stuck just like Dapper...I wasn't joy riding but trying to get to a dirt road to go for a jog near the Glass Mt...Did a pre-walk on ground that seemed firm enough to support a vehicle and sunk to the hubs..Had enough cell battery to call for a rescue...The tracks were gone within a year..
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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way homo to complain about tracks in the dirt,
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Me and my wife got stuck in the mud 40 miles outside of Barstow about 8 years ago.
Same kind of mud, BLM land.
Everything we tried wouldn't work. I did have a 50 ft. piece of rope and wondered if it could somehow get me out. I couldn't find an anchor, nor did I have a winch.
We had to have a Tow truck come out, go 10 miles off road and pull our sorry asses out. $500
But after seeing this thread..
What a great idea.
And I thought of another idea!
If you don't have a winch, maybe you can stick your Tire Wench in your wheel hub in a way that it's wedged, wrap the end of the anchored rope around it, then spin your wheels... which pulls you out.
Use your wheels as the winch.
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jonnyrig
climber
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People have wrapped rope or tow straps around a spinning wheel to get out. It's not a great method, but sometimes it's what ya got. In a lot o cases, there's nothing to anchor to, in which case you're stuck making some kind of dead-man. Course, if you don't have a winch you'd better be creative. Cable come-alongs are cheap and actually work pretty well. Shovels are simply a requirement.
I forgot to mention up-thread that I always have an excess of drinking water.
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kstarr
climber
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I usually disregard these types of threads that have digressed into pissing matches, but I just wanted to throw some thoughts into the “conversation”.
To the OP, I say, nice work being self reliant and getting yourself out of bad situation. I will be putting that into my bag of tricks for the future, but I do hope though that you made an attempt to clean up the mess that was left behind.
To the Haters that say this is no big deal. That is a values judgement that doesn’t really have merit other than what you think is right or wrong. One click of a search engine with “OHV desert impacts” can bring up pages of documents that explain in depth to the contrary.
To be clear, I am not anti OHV. I love exploring in my truck and have been stuck in the mud and snow on occasion. This is more about the general attitude of people and their perceived “right” to do something whether it’s legal or not. Legality doesn’t justify it- it just makes it unpunishable. Just ask the oil and gas industry about that.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nicely stated, kstarr.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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It's also possible that if you have something sturdy a few feet high (like another vehicle or a boulder,etc,) between the stuck vehicle and the bollard you can arrange somewhat of a parbuckling advantage on the wench line, depending on the relative elevation of the bollard to the vehicle. But It's probably clear you did not have that particular advantage out there that day.
Next time.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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I usually disregard these types of threads that have digressed into pissing matches, but I just wanted to throw some thoughts into the “conversation”.
To the OP, I say, nice work being self reliant and getting yourself out of bad situation. I will be putting that into my bag of tricks for the future, but I do hope though that you made an attempt to clean up the mess that was left behind.
To the Haters that say this is no big deal. That is a values judgement that doesn’t really have merit other than what you think is right or wrong. One click of a search engine with “OHV desert impacts” can bring up pages of documents that explain in depth to the contrary.
To be clear, I am not anti OHV. I love exploring in my truck and have been stuck in the mud and snow on occasion. This is more about the general attitude of people and their perceived “right” to do something whether it’s legal or not. Legality doesn’t justify it- it just makes it unpunishable. Just ask the oil and gas industry about that.
I agree. But I wouldn't ascribe bad intent to the guy. I've seen obvious bad intent here in my part of the country.
More than idly curious: how does one go about lifting a truck to gain ground clearance? I have a garden-variety truck that could use some vertical enhancement (not for rock crawling, just to keep from high-centering on some crappy roads)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Get a lift kit and have it installed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Still have it. Not much (garage door height).
My best full size 4X4 is an F250 with a 453 front and back end conversion and a six banger. No high end but it could creep over a boulder.
Does anybody else go offroading with multiple shovels, a 16lb san angelo bar, powder and safety fuse, compressor and tire patches, and ramp rails? I really enjoy exploring old cat tracks in and around southern Utah, and there are plenty,..
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George Bell
Trad climber
Colorado
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Mar 11, 2015 - 08:56am PT
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Good thing you brought that winch!!
Reminds me of the time we almost got stuck in a rental car on the highway in Death Valley. This photo was taken a few miles south of Furnace Creek en route to Badwater ...
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Mar 11, 2015 - 11:16am PT
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The softer the mud the bigger the bollard rule applies.
Try youtube and search for 'ground anchor', 'earth anchor' ,
'pul-pal foldable land anchor'etc.
A faster alternative to digging bollards. Many good ideas, basically a boat
anchor but for winching stuck vehicles. Some have a gas powered winch
attachment so you don't need one on the vehicle -Lewis Winch-.
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