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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 2, 2015 - 10:51am PT
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So if you ever buy anything on Ebay, and you don't like it and want to return it and get your money back in full, you can. Even if it is clearly stated by the seller, "All Sales Final", or "No Returns", or As is. It doesn't matter. EBay's stated policy is actually not what they enforce, they basically deceive you into thinking that. All you have to do is state that the item you received is "Not as described" and then ship the item back, and they will allow the items return and credit the amount back to your Paypal amount. The seller has no say in the matter. Sure, it totally f*#ks over the seller, and Ebay claims they have a review board, but they don't review sh#t. Just state "Item not as described" and then you can buy and return as much stuff as you like with no penalty. Unbelievable but true.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nobody ever said life was fair.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Another great reason that Ebay sucks for (most) everyone.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Good for you!
Others....not so much.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oh, brother. Now you're a grammar & content nazi?
That's cool. We need more of those around. I stand corrected.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I'm with Locker on this one. EBay used to be a toilet where the scammer sellers could lie about products they were selling, and usually if a buyer bitched, nothing happened. In the worse cases a buyer would slam a lying seller with negative feedback & then the seller would slam the buyer with negative feedback.
A few years ago, Ebay cleaned up their act in favor of the beat-up and lied to buyers.
I'm all for their current "customer satisfaction" policy and I state the below quote on all my auctions.
Customer Satisfaction is my #1 Priority! I value and respect my customers and will definitely work with buyers to make sure everyone is pleased.
In the last 3 years I've only had one suspicious return & the fuking buyer immediately slammed me with negative feedback, even though he returned the item for a refund of cost & shipping cost.
Unfortunately, Ebay does not screen for insane or mentally-disturbed buyers, but that's the only one I've had to deal with----so far.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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As much as ebay will ship him....unless he returned it.
And dude, relax......
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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There's a few inches in town, but it's been pretty sloppy, wet stuff with a bunch of bare ground around. Not sure about up higher, but I'd guess there's a decent amount all over Tahquitz & Suicide. Given the forecast, I'd doubt it's going to be do-able anytime in the next several days.
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WBraun
climber
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Hey ,,, this is a good deal.
After I finish using all the tools I've bought on eBay over the years and then years later I'll just return them all and get all my money back.
:-)
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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"Nobody ever said life was fair"
Two words that get used a bunch that bug me. Words with no meaning...
Fair and deserve.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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LOL!!!
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Put me in the camp who thinks that eBay is a terrible venue for buying or selling anything ...
I sold a nice down jacket once , buyer paid , said they never got it, a few days later eBay subtracts money from my account without any investigation or communication . Several weeks later buyer receives jacket in the (very slow) mail , now it is on me to pursue the money that eBay took from me , what a hassle .
I'd rather deal with the lowballers and tire kickers on Craigslist any day .
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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I bought a chinese counterfeit Fender Lap steel on ebay 'as is no returns' and received a full refund from the crooked seller, who was trying to protect his rating. My one 'bad' Ebay experience turned out pretty gud. sometimes life is fair.
rip Rod Serling
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Fair has deep meaning. So does deserve. Who told you such lies. Have you never felt fairness? Have you never felt that anyone deserved something.
Deep deep meaning. I worry if you can't tell fairness from inequity or deserving and undeserving.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Most people are not scummy enough to use items and then return for refund. The type that are are often dissuaded simply because they will have to pack up the item, take it to the post and pay the return shipping(yes, a returning party does pay the return shipping).
I was selling items for someone two years ago, and a buyer purchased an antique book. I had shown images and described the condition as fair, with details of tears and other damage. They blew a gasket upon receipt and demanded a full refund and "if I wanted to book back, to pay for the shipping." They opened a case, with "not as described," assuming they would get as they wanted.
As a seller on eBay, it is my responsibility to know the guidelines, so of course I knew that I would need to refund, and also that I was not required to pay return shipping. I responded to the case, stating that I had accurately described the item, as could be easily seen if reviewing the listing, and that I had also advised the buyer I was happy to provide refund, upon return of the item.
The buyer was then required to act, and guess what? EBay sided with me, and they kept the damned book.
Tips for a seller on an online venue:
 Keep all communication within the sites communication system.
Know what you are legally allowed to do and not. As example: It IS the sender's responsibility to get a package to the customer. If the item is lost in the mail - it is on the seller. A seller is the one who insures a package, so THE can be reimbursed in such cases. It is NOT the buyer who is supposed to buy insurance. And, any item over a certain threshold should be insured, even if it doesn't happen all that often a package is lost. Build it into your cost, and be glad you did when the unfortunate occurs.
Know that buyers CAN open cases with both the online selling venue and/or their credit card, and the onus WILL be on the seller to substantiate their end if such a claim occurs. Communication is a GREAT way to reduce the possibility of someone opening a frivolous case. Let them know there is a human on the other end of their transaction, and provide the Tracking information as soon as possible on any item sent. Half the people on Etsy who come crying about cases didn't even do the basic task of paying for Tracking and advising the customer the number.
Yes, there WILL be people who are scammers, and eBay DOES seem to have abetter than average share. (I have never had a problem on Etsy.) But there are probably even more bad sellers on eBay. Buying electronics? More often than not, if it is just "Joe Nobody," your item was purchased with stolen CC info, and you are helping the theives launder money. There are also those who set up fake accounts and never have the goods to ship anyway. So....
Ebay actually does a pretty good job of protecting buyers and sellers alike. But we still have to use our brains to know how to protect oursleves first.
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Prod
Trad climber
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I use Ebay all of the time. Love it.
I did buy a pair of skis on Craigslist 2 seasons ago that were no where near what was described. The bases were trashed.
All I wanted was $150 back from the seller, so I opened a claim via paypal. The seller ignored the "How do you respond to this claim" in which they had 10 days to contest.
Paypal credited my account $150 and I got to keep the skis.
Prod.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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I'm working through an interesting one right now. The package I sent was delivered but the person is claiming that it was stolen from their front door before they got home. USPS has confirmed that it was delivered.
It will be interesting to see what happens. The item cost was 40 dollars and that included postage.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Wait, are we talking about REI or ebay? Either way, love them both
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Another great reason that Ebay sucks for (most) everyone.
Let me get this straight--you get the chance to return an item that isn't what you thought you ordered, and eBay sucks because of that?
As for items sent and not received, I always send them with a USPS receipt. Problem solved.
I've bought a bunch of stuff through eBay, including some pretty expensive guitars. Sold a bunch too. My local guitar shop wanted 25% commission to sell the guitars. Craigslist is great, but the buyers have to be local.
I suppose it goes to show, some folks will bash anything, given the chance.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Ebay is revolutionary and works great, if you know how to work it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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No, kman, that's not what I inferred.
When purchasers buy something, then decide to return it or complain for some stoooopid reason, the retailer oftentimes gets screwed in that process.
IMO, the line between personal responsibility on the part of the consumer/purchaser has moved too damn far away from them, and towards the retailer. Many retailers live very close to the bone in their operations, and when flighty/flaky purchasers return sh#t or complain for some stupid reason, it affects everyone. You think those costs are simply absorbed by the retailer? They become the absorbed into the costs of the product, and we all get to pay for that.
healyje, I was actually referring to the general state of the consumer-retailer relationship of late.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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You think those costs are simply absorbed by the retailer? They become the absorbed into the costs of the product, and we all get to pay for that.
Don't buy that statement for a minute. Been buying and selling since they started up, Have had next to no problems as a buyer or seller, but I'm excruciatingly clear and always have a ton of pictures as a seller.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Times have changed
I stopped using eBay about 10 years ago because of scams and non-existant customer service.
Speaking of non-existant customer service, I have been trying to close my eBay account for 10 years.
Countless customer service reps have assured me that my account will be closed within 7 days. I have written a dozen letters to corporate HQ. I have complained to Congress, the California DA and other governmental agencies.
It's futile.
eBay sucks.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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^Now that's the kind shit!! that gets me riled.
I wonder what the price of an ez-delete is on the hacker underground.
Paul Ryan apparently bought one for his ST thread.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Hmm. well, I wouldn't call protecting buyers a scam. There's a million crooks looking for ways to bilk the buyers on Ebay. It was much worse in the past. Years ago...I personally was out $400 on an item I never received and never got any confirmation or proof it was ever mailed. Those days are over.
I've sold around 500 items on Ebay. Sure, every once in a blue moon you get a nut-job who insists the item is "not as described" and wants a refund. It's only happened a couple of times with my shop and I just consider it the cost of doing business. There's always another buyer for the same item. Heck... with inexpensive items it's not worth the headache or negative feedback so I've just let the whiner keep it and refunded the money. 100% positive feedback is more valuable than a few bucks.
I did return one item that stated "no return no refunds" one time. It was a used printer that was shipped with ZERO packing material and was in about 20 pieces when it arrived. I immediately shipped it back the same day with tracking to prove it arrived and reported my every move to Ebay resolution. A major fight insured with the idiot seller... who eventually lost and had to refund.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Ebay sucks nuts.
I never made any unreported income on there - cough cough.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jim! You got it dooode!
Sellers exist by satisfying buyers on EBay these days, and that's the way it should be.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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You lazy e-tards, the internet is for trolling only.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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It´s the law throughout the European Union that customers have the right to cancel an order within 7 days of receiving the goods for all purchases made online, mail order, by telephone, TV sales and any other purchase not made personally on the retailers physical premises. The return costs are born by the purchaser unless they can show the goods were not as described or faulty.
Ebay are just going along with what the legislators in most countries have already done.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Just spoke to an ebay rep about a buyer who wants to return an item they say isn't as expected. Basically they have thirty days to open a return claim, after that, they're not covered by ebay's return guarantee policy and I can deny them a refund. We'll see.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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hate to post here as it is way off topic,
I find normally as a buyer, all but one purchase out of 300 have been as described- the one, an old owners manual was nothing like what was sold. I cut in half and mailed it back to lying seller.
As a seller, the forum now is extremely bias towards buyers and only they leave negative feedback and dispute items keeping them and get their money back through a paypal dispute.
The on topic rant is about used gear and how anyone in their right mind will pay new prices for used gear (including shipping), the prices obsolete gear like all pins including bongs, gray jumars, and chouinard ice axes command, and why anyone in their right mind would buy and ship old nylon slings or cord.
two words of advice to follow the end of this thread,
If the piece you are getting is never returning to the field it is worthless.
If you pay more than 50% for a used item you are an idiot.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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^^^Well, then, if you have a few of these...:
...I'd give you a couple bucks per...
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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I sold an iphone on ebay, the buyer claimed they never got it and paypal automatically refunded their money. . .I still think they were full of sh it.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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brian and others,
I would actually have that puppy on the rack and pound it until it breaks.
to me, that is a $5 arrow, nothing more. I would bet John would be happiest seeing it go to good use vs sitting in a private display case in Warren Buffets office.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Ebay claims they have a review board, but they don't review sh#t. I take umbrage with that.
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