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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I like what you are trying to do here, CMac, taping a reply.
This is a more personal and positive approach than making one sit and stare at the computer trying not to fall asleep while reading your well-meant responses.
Forum decorum simply should stem from "owning" it ourselves. We are responsible and when we step out of whatever bounds may displease in whatever way whomever, then the hammer is to be expected.
When someone like Khanom (and several others) voluntarily splits because of the rancor, it is just a crying shame.
I could blame the mysterious "McCown" and his stealing of "foreign bandwidth," but that's just negativity. You have one of those electronic gadgets doing the "subtles," huh??
Click the subtitle thingie and check that out, guys.
Good stuff here, folks.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue
-Barry
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Good stuff Chris. Thanks for taking the time to share some of your thoughts.
Must be tough babysitting adults. But I appreciate the forum in all its weirdness and dysfunctionality. Hoping for years of trip reports and stoke and laughs. I just hope Hankster comes back.
Scott
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Thanks, Chris.
Did you ever address that post you started, talking about splitting the forum into climbing stuff and non-climbing stuff?
You guys remember that post? Did Chris ever respond?
Chris - I was kind of pissed you wrote that post, and 300 replies later, not one word of response from you. Please tell me you responded, and if not, please do.
Maybe someone can provide a link?
Cheers, eh?
Pete Zabrok
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Thanks Chris, I've been here since 2006 and at this point checking Supertopo has become routine, like looking into facebook or getting my mail from the street. I think a lot of users of this site would benefit greatly from looking at it from another perspective and understanding what goes on in moderating a site like this. As per Pete, not all comments warrant replies - I've found in the little bit of forum board management I've done when a message needs to be put out, you just can't answer every single semantic thrown back. Laissez Faire is my style and the one I'm comfortable with.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Look, I don't want to get all meta on you guys, but...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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I don't have any problem with abusive people being banned from Supertopo, especially if they've been previously warned. What I have problems with is the destruction of all of their contributions which include a lot of historical material.
RJ promised us after the deletion of Dr. F's threads that this would not happen anymore and yet it just did. RJ also promised us that he would try to restore some of those threads but that also never happened. Several people working in high tech fields have offered to help with the programming so that offensive people and their posts can be removed without destroying the continuity of threads and that also has never happened.
It's not surprising then that many people have become cynical about this site and many have left voluntarily.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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what Jan said...
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Yup. What Big Mike said about what Jan said.
Susan
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Oh yeah. I agree with Jan, Mike and Seagoat. Ban the player, not their game.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Me too!
But, I also appreciate Chris' response. I e-mailed him today.
I think they are trying their hardest to take a hands off approach to this stuff. Can we self regulate???? As climbers prefer to do.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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People demand moderation and when they get it they don't like it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Meta Meta post about Meta not getting meta in reference to a meta post about the subject at hand.
See what I did there?
Munge make more boring post.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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If I would have to go I would want my stuff to go to. If it is gonna stay I would want to know that too.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, chris...
thank you so very much for taking extra time to
'talk to folks' ... many times, computers can't convey
the emotional-out-reach, needed, when addressing issue,
or sharing ones ideas... a video, is that extra touch,
for proper communication, :)
thank you again... :)
thank you for your forum... i've learned more here, than i ever would
have without in help and info here, from so very many...
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Hi Chris, thanks for being an adult in a room full of children. I appreciate your efforts to keep Supertopo civil, informative, and inspiring.
-Neil
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yep, what Susan & Big Mike agreed with Jan about.
Huh?
Anyway, what those folks said. It's right on.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I am curious, though, about what the rationale is around deleting the content of banned users ...has anyone explained this? Is it about copyright or plagiarism issues (or something like that)? Or something else?
I don't have criticisms about it, really, though some of the concerns voiced around leaving historical threads unreadable seems valid. I'm just curious as to how this impacts ST.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I too agree with Susan, who agreed with Big mike who agreed with Jan, who agreed with...banning the offender but don't nuke the threads that were historically important.
I've been personally boycotting S-T because I get tired of silverbacks behaving like adolescents who need their butts whacked.
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ecflau
Gym climber
CA
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I almost never post here, but I do this forum a lot. Thank you for hosting this resource for us.
I don't understand people who go out of their way to not make this fun - its your past time, your hobby, your enjoyment in life. Why would someone go out of their way to community not fun?
Thanks to all that contribute. A lot of good information here.
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couchmaster
climber
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I agree with everybody agreeing with everyone....
Wait....
Let me start over. I'm sure it's not easy doing the site, and you'd rather be outside doing something much more of interest - so thanks for keeping it rolling. In case she gets banned despite being a warm and amazing person (at least from her posts) quoted in full JAN said (and everyone so far has agreed): "I don't have any problem with abusive people being banned from Supertopo, especially if they've been previously warned. What I have problems with is the destruction of all of their contributions which include a lot of historical material.
RJ promised us after the deletion of Dr. F's threads that this would not happen anymore and yet it just did. RJ also promised us that he would try to restore some of those threads but that also never happened. Several people working in high tech fields have offered to help with the programming so that offensive people and their posts can be removed without destroying the continuity of threads and that also has never happened.
It's not surprising then that many people have become cynical about this site and many have left voluntarily."
1 instance of many to clearly illustrate that point. When Coz got banned for instance (2nd time, not the first), all his great climbing content disappeared, including the tale of his and Bachars First Ascent of Southern Belle on Half Dome. *Poof*
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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The people who are happy with how this issue is being handled are probably the ones making the least noise about it.
I speculate that half the people who use the forum are lurkers. The complainers make up a small portion of those who do post. Ban as many of them as you like - the proportion of climbing content will probably go up.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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It seems like CMac put wheels on asled and pushed it down the hill. And away it went!
But now the sled is a monster that has a chain attached to Chris' foot.
We climbers, we just want to be left alone so we can do what we love.
Chris, there are a bunch of folks who you've managed to snag here, and this forum is obviously an awesome place. But a few upgrades to the forum, or forum policy, might give you more slack in the chain, and allow the sled to coast without much steering.
I think a tazer, or Yellow Card, would be a welcome tool that you can use to zap folks when they've crossed the line. Tazing will cool a lot of folks down. As a user, it's easy to tell when somebody has crossed the line, but a full on buried alive approach is a bit heavy handed. I see that banning somebody is a tough thing to do, and you do it as a last resort. So make it easier by giving yourself a stun gun. That will make banning somebody a much easier task--they've already been warned.
And yeah, I suppose not everybody gets to solo Half Dome.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 5, 2015 - 07:46am PT
So whyn't one of you Preservationists contact cmac about FUNDING an archive? There's like a handful of would0be historians on this site.... get after it. Do a kickstarter, I'd kick in 10 bucks, so there!
Coordinate it with cmac, don't do a grassroots insurgency to steal content and users; make it a partnership. Even a non-profit one!!!
There's your solution - raise the money, make the deals, do the work and enjoy the fruits of YOUR labor.
Now how about that??????????????
DMT
Is it cool if we just draw from the big pool of our parent's money we lean on for everything else? Cause that's totally hot right now...
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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1 instance of many to clearly illustrate that point. When Coz got banned for instance (2nd time, not the first), all his great climbing content disappeared, including the tale of his and Bachars First Ascent of Southern Belle on Half Dome. *Poof*
Like any of that matters. In fifty years who's gonna remember anyway. How many of you can hum a Benny Goodman song? History has been forgotten many times and repeated for eons. The problem with humans is that they think it matters.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Take your sh#t and git the f*#k out."
Are you suggesting that CMac & co will typically tell someone who's about to be banned to delete their own material as they are being banned?
You can't be serious...no way it goes down that way. It's being scrubbed on the admin side...I'm curious about their reasons for this.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Steevee - voice of the new dark age. Why don't we just burn all the libraries and be done with history altogether?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Cmac
Dude I love ur number 1 reason..
I'll continue to post pics and share videos..
Have many climbing friends because of supertaco!
100%
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I am curious, though, about what the rationale is around deleting the content of banned users ...has anyone explained this?
This is easy. When you ban a user, it's much easier to automatically delete everything they posted, rather than to manually sift through thousands of posts and decide what is worth keeping or dumping. It's just not feasible to do that after the fact. What if there is "an important historical thread" that has some unacceptable content mixed in? No easy solution.
The only way to do it is by planning ahead and implementing features that let the community self-police. From the administrators perspective, it's an issue of investing some time now, or spending more time later on the policing side and responding to user complaints like this.
Edit: The video reply is a good format, personal and authentic, well reasoned, and I can't find fault with anything in it.
The only thing I can say is that if you invest some time now to implement community policing features, it will be easier for you later. Feel free to hit me up for detailed requirements. I used to be a product manager at Cisco Systems, and I've done a fair amount of software development and systems design work.
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Why don't we just burn all the libraries and be done with history altogether? This forum is hardly a library. At best it is oral history in digital form. The climbing world has lost nothing, other than easy access to beta and good stories.
As far as climbing's contribution to mankind, PLEASE. It's a sport much like surfing...very fun and awesome to those who do it, but to the rest of the 7 billion people on this planet, it doesn't mean Sh!t.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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very fun and awesome to those who do it, but to the rest of the 7 billion people on this planet, it doesn't mean Sh!t.
So because the rest of the world doesn't care about climbing, climbers shouldn't either?
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah ....
You shouldn't do it.
7 billion people voted against you and banned you.
They don't want climbing, you can't eat climbing, so they want nice juicy carrots.
:-)
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Careful Stevee, talking like that could get you banned! Poof! Comprende!?
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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I'm sure I wouldn't be missed. Not like some of the "juggernauts" that have paved the way. Have a nice day!
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Chris I, like many, truly appreciate what you have created. I think the energy your putting toward an end to the negativity which has kept me away and many positive contributors will pay off in the end.
Nobody wants to be the mommy of grown folks who by all rights should be mature enough and responsible enough to respect each other. So I thank you for making a stand. The way you have done it by asking us, listening to us and giving enough rope to hang those who push the the limit, is stunning. Especially sense you could nuke the whole for being more trouble than its worth.
You have put out what the forum is meant to be, been broad minded and patient and I am glad your taking a stand. I think your doing admirably. I am hoping that after some trimming it wont take so much baby sitting.
Good luck Bro. Your on the right path.
Harrison Hood
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climbingcook
Trad climber
sf
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There are tons of us who frequently read the site, sometimes post, and are glad to see the d#@&%ebags punted out the door.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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Chris, had you not created this forum and kept it going all these years, I never would have figured out who my birth dad was, and I never would have found other climbers who knew my birth mom.
I wouldn't have been able to find my second cousin through my birth dad over in Germany, or share with him that he has family in the US, or make plans to travel to meet him for the first time in the same town where my dad's father grew up.
I never would have started climbing.
I never would have had the chance to meet and talk with friends of my birth dad's who (40-odd years later) still carry the burden of self-blame of not having been able to prevent his suicide, and share with them that he likely suffered from celiac disease induced depression, something no one could have known back then.
I never would have been on the receiving end of so much unbelievable kindness that defies measure.
I never would have found the first group of people where I actually fit in!!! And I have made some very special friends as a result.
Thanks to you and your efforts, my daughter will know where she came from.
It will be 3 years ago, in March, that the adoption agency confirmed that my "guess" as to who my dad might be was confirmed in an email. From my humble perspective, I can't imagine a greater gift.
Thank you, from my heart, for changing my world, and for all that you do to create a place where this odd lot can congregate.
Audrey
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couchmaster
climber
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You proved my point SteveE, it wasn't Bachar on the FA, it was Walt Shipley. As far as "Benny Goodman", I'll add that just yesterday, was in the cancer ward with my mom, and they played "Sentimental Journey" over the Muzak system. I said to her: Hey Mom, they're playing Glenn Miller." You know what she said?
HUH? So I repeated it louder so everyone in the area was looking at us. You know what she said? "I can't hear it". True story. Proving only that it sucks to get old. Some history matters. Some doesn't, but why screw it up intentionally?
STEVEE SAID: 1 instance of many to clearly illustrate that point. When Coz got banned for instance (2nd time, not the first), all his great climbing content disappeared, including the tale of his and Bachars First Ascent of Southern Belle on Half Dome. *Poof*
Like any of that matters. In fifty years who's gonna remember anyway. How many of you can hum a Benny Goodman song? History has been forgotten many times and repeated for eons. The problem with humans is that they think it matters.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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It derives its importance from the importance we place on it. If that's where we want to place our importance, go for it!
It's tough managing our beliefs and behaviors in an environment that we don't completely understand. If only Chris or God would explain, life would be so much easier, wouldn't it. We still haven't gotten used to it. Praise Jesus!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 31, 2019 - 01:49pm PT
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hey there, say... just a bump...
MAINLY FOR LILABIEN... and her thank you, as to finding her father...
wow!
a wonderment, from the supertopo!
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cybele
Ice climber
Salt Lake City
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May 31, 2019 - 07:46pm PT
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I too am struggling with reading threads that don't make any sense due to lots of deletions or crucial deletions.
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| Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic |
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