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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
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Amazing climbing info that is not recorded anywhere else in the world haphazardly destroyed because someone got into an argument about politics online Ryand
Fix the script please. This total annihilation of a banned users posts is making the archive parsed and illegible!
STOP IT!
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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I was going to start this thread but was scared of getting banned.
'In general' it's amazing what a big component FEAR is of free-expression. It's not really that free in so many circumstances. A person has to be brave sometimes....and sometimes they have to be smart.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I AINT SKEERED
Please don't ban micronut!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 02:38pm PT
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Edit- I was going to start this thread but was scared of getting banned.
I know right? ;) i'm just sick of this Gilchrist script.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
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Starting to think that's an excellent idea Weston..
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
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Well when I get my photo site up and running, i'll host my own content.
Stzzo that would be at least understandable.... The current situation is nonsense
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I've done quite a few TRs here- a few about my kids adventures but a lot on climbs that don't see a lot attention (under the Nutjob avatar). It might be time to take off my training wheels and use my own blog so I can trust it as an archive. Smart people already do that.
I can see admins not wanting to sift through posts of problematic posters and manually delete some while keeping "good" content. They probably just won't ever put in that much effort, and the short-sighted approach was to just delete everything from the problem-child.
A better approach would be for them to invest in a system that enabled community policing so they can continue to be hands-off day to day. Such an approach might include:
1) A new table in the DB for offensive posts, with the following fields:
 foreign key to the post ID
who tagged it as offensive
when they tagged it as offensive
2) a new field in the table for posts that indicates visibility on/off
3) logic in the web script that checks the visibility on/off field before rendering that post as part of the page view in the thread
4) logic in the web script with a button for users to mark the individual post as offensive (which triggers an entry in the table mentioned in item 1) *and* a button to unmark a previously marked offensive post (so users can change their mind in case they marked it when they were in a pissy mood). A confirmation dialog would be nice too, so accidental marking of offensive posts doesn't happen.
5) A stored procedure that is fired off whenever an item is added or removed offensive post table... this procedure looks for how many records are associated with the post ID referenced, and if above some threshold, mark the visibility field for the post as "invisible", otherwise mark it as "visible" (which would happen in the case people change their mind after tagging it as offensive and then want it to be back to regular)
6) I'm not sure if there would be any extra logic for hiding these entries from searches- depends on the DB schema
If there is some public outcry about deleted posts, you can just tweak the stored procedure for how many people have to flag something as offensive before the visibility is blocked- for example, change it from 5 to 20 if you have a few jerks marking stuff as offensive just to mess with you. But data is not actually deleted so you can recover it by changing the script to require more community tagging before hiding the content. This is way easier than going back through data archives (if you even have them) to restore content previously deleted from the DB.
Basically, this stuff is a day's work for a web developer. That much investment would save many hours of future manual policing, and prevent the threat of lost archives which will discourage people from continuing to share content here.
An added side-benefit: when real offensive stuff does come up, the community will most likely get rid of it before you even have to interfere. So doing this work makes your future job easier in any case.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
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That would be nice Nutjob, ideally something like this would happen.
In the real world right now, go back to the old way of banning people if necessary, where you delete the objectionable content and leave the rest for historical record. Then you still have the new option for trolls and spammers.
It shouldn't be too hard to essentially have two classes of bannings, ban and nuke. The mod still has to press the button. This way they could make a choice to save historical content when forced to do their duty.
Obviously everything here could be lost at any point for many different reasons. I fully accept that. To have it done intentionally for no good reason is simply perposterous in my opinion
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 03:47pm PT
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Thing is, you can't do Squamish Photos and Stories anywhere else. The reason it works is the people are here.
That's why I started it because Anders stopped stoking the fire and I was going to be damned if there was no Squamish thread in a place that had such a wealth of first hand knowledge on the subject.
That's why I am asking these guys to stoke the fire.
My pm function isn't working and I emailed rj about it to an address given to me by a poster here. I have yet to recieve a response and I don't really expect to recieve one. It seems as if that's the way things go these days. I haven't tried Chris yet but i just saw the sentiment so I ran with it and i'm posting it here. I hoping that you guys will agree with me and they finally do something about it.
Edit rj tried to recover some of khanom's stuff but most of it was lost according to him.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
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This isn't about saving my sh#t.
This is about being able to load a classic old thread and enjoy it without having it parsed into a million non sensical conversations because half the people that participated in that conversation got banned.
It didn't use to be this way. you could go read the old threads, you would see replies from roxjox and leb and all the characters who made this site what it was. You could get an understanding of context.
Now? it just ain't the same anymore jack.
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thebravecowboy
climber
just banana-jam it
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Weston, you're right, the ST system for sharing images and words in the form of TRs is a pain in the ass. It could be waaay smoother.
And dude, I really dug that Indian Creek TR of yours, from my perspective as a jaded non-plus on the area.
Big Mike: Why the heck would ou ant contin ity of ont nt?
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thebravecowboy
climber
just banana-jam it
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Can supertopo solve my problems too?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
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Who's frazzled buddy? ;p
Thanks Jim, but i'm more concerned with the continuation of this Gilchrist script.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
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Lol. Please don't! :)
Edit Locker ;)
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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There's a problem with banning someone and keeping their content. There's copyright issues with that, and I guess the admins wouldn't want to end up in court for stealing photos and text.
They cannot deny access and at the same time keep the stuff, so unfortunately Mike, I think it's not solved easily.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Would somebody less lazy than I mind posting the quote we got from CMac a couple years ago where he promised that the historical content entrusted to his storage was archived and in safe hands? People had asked him that question and he gave ernest assurance on one of his annual posts.
Arne
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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... start another forum to substitute for ST ...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Oh! So if the original poster yanks, then the thread drops out of the list?
Seems like a bug.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Yup always been that way, although they are typically search-able.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
Feb 2, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
Are you shitting me?
http://web.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/belle94.htm
How could you delete that? That's the sort of post that got me interested in Supertopo, and made me decide to buy guidebooks from this establishment.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
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Yes. I will fly high like a bird in the sky.
Just wanted to validate a great point.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
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AGREED!!!! With the op
And don't ban Mike! haha
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Agree with the OP.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Amazing climbing info that is not recorded anywhere else in the world haphazardly destroyed because someone got into an argument about politics online
Almost got it right. The problem is the administration of this site sucks. These problems have been growing for a number of years and rather than spend some time to deal with the problem, jack sh#t gets done. Now lots of people post rather infrequently or get banned. F*#king lame.
F you supertopo! (Did I just get myself banned? ;)
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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I agree with Mike.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Delete the posts relevant to the banning. Leave the remainder.
Deleting all posts messes up the forum. It's unnecessary.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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They're not going to have any business anymore if this keeps up.
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WBraun
climber
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Malemute -- "what do you expect?"
The owner of this site doesn't sit around like a self righteous azhole like you drooling like a stupid dog posting self righteous bullsh!t all day.
Instead the owner is a smart guy simultaneously making a living and out exploring life ......
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Ban Big Mike and that RyanD kid too! Hosers both.
C-Ya guys.....
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10b4me
climber
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The owner of this site doesn't sit around like a self righteous azhole like you drooling like a stupid dog posting self righteous bullsh!t all day.
Instead the owner is a smart guy simultaneously making a living and out exploring life ......
Once again, Werner hits the nail on the head.
Fuking bunch of whiners...
No kidding
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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If you want to pursue that, Big Mike, as a new place for your Squamish content, give him a shout.
Stzzo, it just don't work like that. I can host my own stuff, but i can't import all the squamish talent to my site. It's all here. There is a local board we could use, but it's boring. Nothing much happens there and very few of the Squamish Old School post there.
Sometimes I don't know if RJ really knows what he has here. I mean where else can you have a conversation with John Gill, or Jan Sacherer. Hamish Mutch or Glenn Woodsworth, Jim Donini. Where else did John Bachar post?
I could go on and on. To delete quality climbing material from people like Scott Cosgrove, Hank Caylor, Bruce Kay, in my eyes, is a slap in the face to the people who love this site.
Shame.
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John M
climber
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To delete quality climbing material from people like Scott Cosgrove, Hank Caylor, Bruce Kay, in my eyes, is a slap in the face to the people who love this site.
but what if some of those guys asked to be deleted? I think Scott and Hank both asked to go.
Personally I don't think people's posts should be deleted, even if they ask for it. But it would be hard to not honor their request.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Mike, I think you might be right about RJ not considering what is here.
Hank just asked to be "deactivated". He was surprised that all his posts disappeared, but doesn't care so much. Its really unfortunate to have such valuable content vanish. Bruce Kay also had some really interesting info that one cannot otherwise find out about, or at least certainly not on the internet.
There needs to be a better process when someone is banned, or deactivated than "delete all".
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 09:17am PT
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Scott got banned and Hank asked to leave. (See hankster deleted thread) Niether wanted their content expunged.
Kulun there was a better process before the gilchrist script. How hard would it be to re-intergrate that option??
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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there was a better process before the gilchrist script. How hard would it be to re-intergrate that option??
Mike, I have no idea. I'm sure all kinds of things are possible. Its up to RJ as far as what process he follows. He did bring back Khanom's posts, didn't he? But maybe that was when Khanom was completely reinstated?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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No, Khanom only has 4 posts now. He hasn't been back since either.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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I see that Mike. Might be too difficult or impossible to restore. Really sucks to chop content like this!
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Haven't been here much anymore beyond a random lurk, but I am chiming in on this one.
This sh#t needs to stop. You've been asked multiple times to fix this, you claimed you were going to, and you aren't doing it. Nor will you bother to give anyone here an answer because you won't step up and talk to the users.
Hank's sobriety thread is one of the stars on this forum, it's helped a lot of people over the years. His contributions to that thread were important to it, and while the thread remains all his content beyond the thread itself is gone. And none of those posts were subversive or rude or anything else negative.
I have no problem when you delete someone's content that is 99% bullshit and drama, but this really pisses me off. Not that you care (or will even bother to read this) but this is a f*#king joke. Edit to add, when you delete good content and leave people like "The Chief" and "Sidmo" unscathed it makes me pretty certain that you don't even bother to READ the damned forum. You don't get involved unless X number of people bitch about something.
The fact of the matter is that nothing is going to change here as long as the guidebooks keep selling and you keep getting money for your ad farms. The general feeling I get is that you could give a rat's ass less about the forums or climbing community, so why keep doing it.
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John M
climber
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good rant vegas climber.. though I do think Chris and RJ do care to some extent. They are just getting it wrong.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 09:51am PT
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+1000 Travis!
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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It's official
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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this is not a non profit organization with a board of members
who have a say
Oh Canada and all the american snivlers get use to the fact that when you post content, its on the forum and no longer your choice what happens to it
unless you edit or delete it in the time frame allowed
Truth be told we dont know who is leaving the forum or why some are being banned
clearly doesnt matter
Simply enjoy or dont
but beware you are posting that precious content at risk of being lost forever
Heres a thought
what happens when sometime in the future the site just decides to shut down
Does it owe any of you anything?
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"Chewbongka"
climber
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Seems like every few years Chris and RJ have to put up with some whiny ass folks complaining about how to run the site. And every few years those folks go sulking and crying away when they do not get their way.
Thanks for the great site Chris and RJ!
Ignore the whiners and enjoy the real world, this site will carry on just like it has always done.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
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Does it owe any of you anything?
Of course not. Cmac can do whatever he wants with his site. If this is the way he wants it, so be it. Doesn't mean I can't share my opinion on it.
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John M
climber
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Big Mike.. That was a kinder and more civilized answer then I was prepared to give. haha..
sign me
thesnivelingamerican
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 02:46pm PT
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Kill em with kindness John. :)
Fish means well, and he's right, but i just don't see why they have to parse the forum so bad. What's wrong with deleting the offending material and leaving the rest of the posters record intact? I can understand wanting to kill trolls and spam entirely. But not longtime contributing members...
And no this is not a copyright issue, none of us has a contract here. We give of our own free will.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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"To have it done intentionally for no good reason is simply perposterous in my opinion"
thats the thing
everyones opinion has always been welcome here
its hard to quantify or qualify subject matter and material that stays or goes especially post by post
There are some programs and some buttons and they get pushed
Bamm
what results is content for you to enjoy or not
this site has brought many more together with common interests then it has
done the opposite
I truly am grateful for the friends I have made
i will continue to support the site, as is by opening up the forum,clicking ads closing them and enjoying the content thats there now ,here now, hey now
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
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As will I Gregg. I feel strongly about this because if i were to join supertopo now, the experience I was able to have would no longer be there.
The context I was able to gather by reading archived threads with all the original posters banned or not, gave me a better understanding of this place and climbers/climbing. As a younger climber with very few close mentors I gleaned a lot from these pages, and I truly value that experience.
The Friends like yourself that I have made here is what will keep me coming back to share.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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It's not a copyright issue. They even changed the web site to make it so that you are not able to edit or delete your own[/] posts after 10 days, so that the context of threads would be maintained.
That is still the rule. Try to edit or delete a post you made older than 10 days. You can't.
Also, for most of the time I've been on Supertopo, when they banned people they just left all the posts intact and wouldn't remove them (usually) even when asked to.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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If you like awesome content on this website, copy-paste to a basic text file. The entire forum would take up less than a megabyte of space on your hard drive, and at this point if you don't care to save something you shouldn't care when it's gone.
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Get used to it! Where corporation are people by law, then corporations will rule. There is no fairness much less democracy! Who do you think you are kidding?
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