Anybody Believe This Tom Brady Dude?

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Messages 1 - 123 of total 123 in this topic
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 26, 2015 - 10:05am PT
I didn't know my balls were deflated....


I would never break the rules......
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:12am PT
Yep I wondered about temperature myself.

I hope they were cheating though. Cause watching multi billion dollar enterprises get skewered in the media is more fun.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 10:13am PT
I suspect the balls were properly inflated at one time.


No sh#t??????



Let's see what the inflation is at the Super bowl, no matter what the temperature is.


Ol' Tom got caught with his hand in the panties, period.
John M

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:19am PT
they found residue of powdered cool aide in Kevin's kit after he finished pitch 15. WE all know what that means.

one report I saw.. who knows if it is true, says that they only found one ball that was fully 2 pounds low. The others ranged around one pound low. Seems plausible to me that this could be caused by filling them in a warm locker room.
steve shea

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:23am PT
Yup! Check your tire pressures cold, cause when the heat up from ambient air and use, it will not read the same. I think there are as many Patriots haters now as Cowboys haters. Anything to stir the pot. Yeah Belichik taped opposing team's practice sessions. But they all did and were told by the NFL to stop. The Pats kept it up a little too long and got caught.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 10:28am PT
Seems plausible to me that this could be caused by filling them in a warm locker room.


Yeah, warm balls have never been taken from a warm room into the cold before.

Tom's a handsome white boy, he would never lie to us.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:38am PT
So the balls were down by app. 1/6 pressure. If you run you car tires at 35 lbs., that's a drop to 30. I've seen the tires on my truck drop that much in really cold weather.

Or does the volume of air in the ball vs the tire matter?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 10:40am PT
What matters is that the Colts balls were all properly inflated and the Pats weren't.

I guess it was colder on their side of the field.
ddriver

Trad climber
SLC, UT
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:46am PT
The claim is that the under-inflated balls were discovered at halftime, at which time the Patriots lead 17-7.

Officials then corrected the pressure. Pats went on to outscore
Indy 28-0 after the inflation was corrected.

If anyone should be mad here, IMO, it is Indy that the under-inflation was discovered in the first place.
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Without data it's all conjecture and the fact the NFL has refused to release any details on the actual PSI of the footballs at the halftime seems fairly incriminating (not to mention the amazing aw-shucks ignorance of Belichick and Brady). Of course the Refs probably weren't sitting there tabulating exact measures.

Regardless, if they are in fact innocent the only thing that matters is the temperature of the air in the ball when they were supposedly inspected prior to the game.

Assume that
1) They were all at the minimum pressure of 12.5 PSI prior to the game
2) The actual volume change with small PSI changes is negligible.
3) The internal air temperature was 51 degrees F at halftime.

Gay-Lussacs Law says

P1/T1 = P2/T2 (temperature in Kelvin)

If the Refs measured halftime pressure at 10.5 PSI (and it's still not certain what the balls actually measured at) then the initial temperature would need to be 148 degrees Fahrenheit. If it was 11.5 PSI then the initial temperature would need to be 95.4 degrees.

I don't believe vigorously rubbing the ball would do the trick. I'd guess the Patriots were smart enough to use warm (very warm?) air prior to equipment check. No rule about internal ball temperature.

Why they don't come out and admit that is beyond me. Take the short term hit about pushing the envelope rather than forever be branded a cheater.





limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 10:59am PT
PV=nRT

if it was aired up at 70 degrees and it dropped to 30 degrees that would make it drop from 12.5 psi to about 11.6 psi
steve shea

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:04am PT
W.L. is right, at least I have not read this as well. And, it was the Colts who stirred the pot in the first place. I think the whole thing was started by Don Shula who is pissed that Belichik beat his undefeated regular season record. Dolphins 14 Pats 16. But the Pats lost the Piss Poor Bowl.
John M

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Its a bunch of hooey.. now there are reports that other teams had complained throughout the season. It would have been easy as pie for the NFL to do random checks throughout the game to make certain that no one was tampering with the balls How hard would that be? 30 seconds to check a ball. So if they were forewarned and didn't fix it immediately, then as far as I'm concerned the league is as much to blame.

The claim is that the under-inflated balls were discovered at halftime, at which time the Patriots lead 17-7.

Officials then corrected the pressure.

this is how bad the news is…. some reports are that they didn't correct it during halftime.

The way the league is handling this, they look like they are trying to create drama so that more people will watch the game.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:26am PT
Who is Tom Brady?
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:29am PT
It's fascinating how this is turning into a three way game

Roger Goodell vs Seahawks vs Patriots

Seahawks being the ones (ML) who thumb their nose at authority and Patriots (Kraft) being the ones who rub their nose in it. Interesting sort of morality play.

Go HawKS!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:29am PT
Doods,get yer priorities right, we're trying to deal with an airplane crash in Yosemite!
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:32am PT
Doods,get yer priorities right, we're trying to deal with an airplane crash in Yosemite!

More Ganja?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:51am PT
Wasn't he the guy who came up with background checks for would be, Kalashnikov owners?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
Try it yourself. There's no way he couldn't tell 12.5 psi from 10.5 psi. I'm not a pro quarterback and I can tell.

And no, unless you inflated the balls in a sauna and played below freezing, you can't lose 2 lbs pressure. Funny the other teams balls met specs...
Texplorer

Trad climber
Sacramento
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
Bill Nye agrees with you all

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/01/25/bill-nye-says-bill-belichick-made-no-sense-on-deflategate-explanation/
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
Seahawks being the ones (ML) who thumb their nose at authority

As a very long-suffering Cal fan, and an even longer-suffering critic of sports "journalism," Marshawn's attitude toward the press amuses me. I wish, though, that he'd go back to giving interviews. When he was playing for my Golden Bears, the following colloquy ensued (or words to this effect):

Q: ML, what is your favorite pro team?

ML: The Raiders.

Q: Have you ever sat in the Black Hole?

ML: Look, I said my favorite team is the Raiders. I didn't say I was insane!

John
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jan 26, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
SNL nailed it! Duggy Spoons aka the Patriots ballboy tells us we can't
handle the truth.



[Click to View YouTube Video]









survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
Oh yeah, he's soooo innocent! NOT!!
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Jan 26, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
If you like analytics, this should be interesting. Read this and tell me this is the first time they've done this.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
YO, BRADY! YOU BEEN TRIED AND CONVICTED ON SUPERTOPO!
LIFE IS PRETTY MUCH OVER AS FAR AS YER CONCERNED, RIGHT?

I'd like to see 'em play a game with 7 psi in the balls.
That would be some old skool radness!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 03:06pm PT
And no helmets. Or should I say old school leather with no face mask.

My dad played with a leather helmet and no face mask, for the Carlsbad Cavemen!!!
DanaB

climber
CT
Jan 26, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
Who is Tom Brady?

Marcia Brady's brother.
John M

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

based on that.. it appears the Patriots have discovered John Gills secret cool aide formula.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
Butt can she cook?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 26, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
what game?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
What cooking?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 26, 2015 - 04:05pm PT

My dad played with a leather helmet and no face mask, for the Carlsbad Cavemen!!!

Mine too...for the U. Wisconsin Badgers in 1938.

I player HS ball in the 60's with just one bar and a plastic lid. He thought we were sissies.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
I player HS ball in the 60's with just one bar and a plastic lid. He thought we were sissies.

I'll see if I can find a pic of my dad in that rig. It's priceless!!

He was the quarterback, and had his nose busted a couple few times, yikes!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 26, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
hey there say, survival and all you guys...

say, i been hearing this on the radio news, a lot, and me, i don't watch the games, no tv channels, etc...
or visiting at homes, that do, but i still get curious how things are going, as i have many friends that DO watch...

well, i have a question...

i do not understand (though of course, i know the issue of dishonesty is serious) well, i do not understand how the ball issue affects the
whole outcome, as to one team over the other??

did the ONE team practice with low inflated footballs, so they would have the advantage, and thus 'plan this out'...

as, otherwise, wouldn't the OTHER team's situation be the SAME?
in action-reaction, with these low-pressured balls??



not sure if i asked this, in a 'understandable way' but what i mean,
were not the teams, equal-equal as to the 'playing with such a situation'??


just curious, and trying to understand...
and well, you know--
you guys always have vast answers to give, when we all
are in need, that
help SHALL arise, here, for me to understand all this...

thus, please explain,

:)

thanks guys, :)


(oh, easier said: i thought they ALL used the same ball, now, i was just reading a link, and it is so? that they have their own footballs that they bring/use??? each team, does?? how does work, through, shouldn't each team use the same ball?? obviously, guys, i don't get it) :(

oh my...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 04:40pm PT
Hiya neebz!!

An under-inflated ball is easier to pass, catch, and carry.
The defense has a harder time stripping the ball from a carrier.

Each team gets to use "their" balls on offense, thus the controversy over Toms cheating. Get it?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 26, 2015 - 04:42pm PT
The NFL sure has a lot of balls.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 26, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
hey there say, survival...


ahhhh, okay, i just got done editing my post and i just saw yours now...

yeah, i do understand, they are easier to hang onto, but i SURE did not
get what was going on, with
each team getting to use their own football...

wow, NEVER did i even suspect that, as, well, you knowwwwwwwww--
you'd 'THINK' it'd make someone try to cheat...


:O


well, SO NOW i see...

and it is in the offense, you say... okay, i begin to see now, and after
reading that link, on 'fumbles and patriats' etc...
i understand now, why all the fuss about what to me,
seemed very odd...


thanks so much, survival,

wow... thought it was just a game about doing your best, under all situations and types of weather, etc...

ooops, i am sure 'out of touch' here, :))
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 26, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
hey there say, T hocking... wow, say, thanks for all that insight there...

wow, yeah, NEVER knew that...

and seems a proper code like that SHOULD keep
'cheaters' at bay, but it 'so looks' like it sadly had not, and
ruined sportsmanship... (edited, if this SO be the case, of course,
in this situation) ...

:(



say--sure wonder if high-school and college football
gets checked into, on all this stuff, huh??
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jan 26, 2015 - 05:14pm PT
Interesting sharps analytics article. The patriots have been cheating with the ball from 2010 -2014 and they never got caught doing it during that time. I guess that supports our belief that all the other teams are cheating with the ball and not getting caught at it. Or I guess it supports whatever belief we like best. Confirmation bias is just wildly advantageous!
climbinginchico

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
But if I remember correctly, after the referee supposedly tests the balls for correct inflation, they are then put in the possession of the "ball boys" or whatever the NFL calls them, and neither team would really have the ability to adjust the inflation pressure. Unless they paid off a referee, but I thought that only happens in the NBA?
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Jan 26, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
NOPE!


....and bicycle racing gets a bad rap because it does something about the cheaters.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 26, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
The NFL has it backwards.

In my world The defense picks the balls.

The quarterback can challenge and if he's right it's worth 15 yards for his team.
If he's wrong it costs him 15.
neverwas

Mountain climber
ak
Jan 26, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
Assume that
1) They were all at the minimum pressure of 12.5 PSI prior to the game
2) The actual volume change with small PSI changes is negligible.
3) The internal air temperature was 51 degrees F at halftime.

Gay-Lussacs Law says

P1/T1 = P2/T2 (temperature in Kelvin)

If the Refs measured halftime pressure at 10.5 PSI (and it's still not certain what the balls actually measured at) then the initial temperature would need to be 148 degrees Fahrenheit. If it was 11.5 PSI then the initial temperature would need to be 95.4 degrees.

The pressures also need to be absolute (i.e., add 14.7 psi) so this is not quite correct. I whipped up a bit of javascript in the node.js REPL, and have these results (temps in F, pressures in psig):

given: { p1: 12.5, t2: 51, p2: 10.5 }
result: t1 is 91.5 F

given: { p1: 12.5, t2: 51, p2: 11.5 }
result: t1 is 70.5 F

I've used this to calculate pressure in my bike tires for commuting in chilly weather from warm house to warm workplace:

given: { t1: 65, t2: -42, p1: 20 }
result: p2 is 12.9 psig

Seems to me that the refs handle the ball on every down... wouldn't they notice a deflated ball?

I'm not sure how much air diverges from an 'ideal gas' under these conditions, but we typically have low humidity
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 26, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
In situations like this I always used to turn to Don Shula for advice, but as far as can be ascertained he is no longer available.

Vaya con Dios, don Shula
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 26, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
I believe Brady...Half of those guys think their catching a watermellon..
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jan 26, 2015 - 07:59pm PT
Going back to my infancy, the playground chants and all that - cheaters were called out, but sore losers were worse.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
you guys know what absolute temperature is?

maybe you should look it up...

and don't forget to account for the atmospheric pressure, also...

this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
CNN went from Dawn Wall to Deflated Balls.
neverwas

Mountain climber
ak
Jan 27, 2015 - 01:57am PT
... and don't forget to account for the atmospheric pressure, also...

Absolute temperature was accounted for by the previous poster, and I adjusted to absolute pressure, so I'm not sure what else might be wrong. Could be bugs in the code, but it passed some spot checks...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 27, 2015 - 02:17am PT
real for real? really ? I have only read a wee bit of this threads posts. . .
Is absolutely Zero, -273k? or something? now absolute Temperature? above my pay scale,
(amps) I certainly did not look it up.
Edit: reread. but now I have gone back and what can I say!

this thred iz a head ache wrapped in a thick fog, almost unaware that the world at large is suffering beheadings and terrorism, while we, the great society, 1st world types, worry about football!
And there is nothing wrong with that to a point , Definitely Deflated Ballzz is that point!

Cheating, in a game played by felons watched by fat unhealthy millions, who also consume
reality t.v. shows
big
don' believe the hype!


Climbers caught by the hype!!
NeeBee hit it square on the head, given the outcome,

Stripping the ball on every play is also 'like' cheating but that is the only advantage that the slightly reduced inflation effected(which, affected or effect Ed? that I may look up)😏

It is a silly football game . The big games were last week, and this is just sugar frosting on an okay season .

I am glad that the Hawks and the Pats are the two teams but will not be betting.
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Jan 27, 2015 - 08:44am PT
Footballs inflated to 12.5 at 75F (294k).
Pressure remeasured a 35F (274K)..

Resultant pressure is ( 274/294 ) * 12.5 = 11.6

This is a non event, totally innocent.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 27, 2015 - 09:02am PT
neverwas

Mountain climber
ak
Jan 27, 2015 - 11:43am PT
Footballs inflated to 12.5 at 75F (294k).
Pressure remeasured a 35F (274K)..

initial absolute pressure is 12.5+14.7 = 27.2 psia
( 274/294 ) * 27.2 = 25.3 psia
final gauge pressure is 25.3-14.7 = 10.6 psig

Not trying to be argumentative here... I was riding (grinding along) my bike yesterday with about 4.5 psig rear, 6 in front, with over 100F temperature difference between inside and outside. If I could convince the tires to use only gauge pressure it wouldn't have been quite so bad.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 27, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
I haven't heard of any current QBs call Brady a cheater.

Hmm, why is that?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
Cuz they've all got their hand in the cookie jar too?


Plenty of Ex players calling him out though.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 27, 2015 - 02:14pm PT
It is sad to see so many professional sports sacrifice their sense of honor and fairplay on the alter of fame and greed. As soon as something becomes big business people start to lose all perspective. The dark side of captialism.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 27, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
Cuz they've all got their hand in the cookie jar too?

Bingo!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 27, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
Looks usable to me. I only wish Don Shula had signed it.

divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 27, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
^^^^^
Any football that Vince Wilfork falls on is going to look like that...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 27, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
Without data it's all conjecture and the fact the NFL has refused to release any details on the actual PSI of the footballs at the halftime

That says so much. More than one "fact" has been reported that turned out false in this story. And so much missing information. How much did the Colts balls drop? What were the Colts balls at when tested before the game? How many psi were the Pats balls down? Conflicting reports say in 11 of 12 2 psi down OR 1 ball 2 psi down, 10 balls below stated limit?

HeadSmart Labs experiment shows a loss of 1.8 psi from temp and water on the leather.
[Click to View YouTube Video]

After seeing the BB, TB press conferences my GUESS/FEELING is this. Brady and the equipment guy had a process to get the balls to just 12.5 for measuring and they'd drop significantly by game time. BB knew nothing about it until after this all blew up. Rubbing the balls heats them up. They can use wax and who knows what else to get them tacky and maybe that could temporary shrink the leather raising the psi.

Every ball inflated to 12.5 psi indoors is going to drop under 12.5 when brought outdoors when it's cool/cold weather. The rules stipulate they provide balls at 12.5 to 13.5 they don't say they have to remain there. So technically maybe they were following the rules. Just looking for loopholes. When asked if he cheated Brady said 'I don't think I did anything wrong' instead of just NO! That leads me to believe he knew what was going on but believed it to be within the rules. If that's the case should he have just admitted it then? Maybe but then many people would have said that's cheating even if not technically the case.

What's really lame has been the way this whole thing has been handled. It looks like the Ravens had sour grapes and tipped off the NFL/Colts. Instead of going to the Pats and saying make sure your balls are in spec. they setup a lame sting operation without constant surveillance of the balls. Then they leak select information to ESPN some of which turns out to be false.

I understand why Kraft is pissed and wants an apology if no wrong doing is found. If found guilty they should throw the book at them.

But even if/when the NFL says they have no evidence the rules were deliberately broken many people will still say they cheated because:

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 27, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
Well this sort of thing never happens in baseball ... whoops no air ... in basketball.

However, did anyone check Brady's hands for this?


Darwin

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 30, 2015 - 11:40am PT


Joe Montana doesn't believe him.

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2025578100_patriotsglobe30xml.html
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 11:56am PT
"Will Mr Fred Biletnikoff please pick up a yellow courtesy phone?"
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 11:58am PT
ILLEGAL USE OF THE IDEAL GAS LAW - 15 yards?

what's the hand signal going to look like?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 30, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
Several years ago I bought Bradying.com as a joke. Then around the super bowl 2012 it took off, even making national news and being featured in a South Park episode. Hopefully Brady will do something stupid again this year. In the mean time, get your Brady on.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
Shaqtin' the fool!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
I gotta say that if Brady and the equipment manager figured out that the balls' pressure changes naturally in response to the temperature of the air, that they become even more respectable in my eyes... applying a physics concept in a real life situation is wonderful. Everything is done within the rules, and the outcome is easier to handle balls...

As for the NFL rule, by constraining the shape of the football (by the dimensions) and the pressure of the football (which they intended to do even though they erroneously use the units "pounds" rather than "psi" in their rule) they inadvertently set the temperature range that the game can be played in... and that range is around the temperature of the gas pumped into the balls.

PV = NRT

fixing P and V, you've set T... I'm sure they had no idea that that was what they were doing with that rule.

I'd love to see someone try to explain that to the Rules Committee...

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
This thread is ragefest kneejerk honeypot.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 30, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
gumby you cropped the slung seawhawk head out:

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 30, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
Haha good catch.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 30, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
Turns out the refs never pre logged the psi data..lol
patriots are effing awesome...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 30, 2015 - 02:45pm PT
montana said that brady must have known about it. he also said its a stupid rule and every QB likes there ball a certain way.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
I think that what Brady said is that he did not knowingly violate the rules...
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 30, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
it's like watching ed go over to the dark side on the climate thread

heh
Osprey

climber
Jan 30, 2015 - 07:20pm PT
Tom's got the flattest balls of them all!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
Brady's balls are soft!
Osprey

climber
Jan 30, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
The Patriots' ball boy stuck needles in Tom's balls, and the NFL tests Earl Thomas for HGH. Go figure.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
oh, I'm definitely a Patriots fan, from 1961... nothing lasts forever so I'm enjoying this last 15 years (omg, maybe that's why there's been a hiatus! its start corresponds with the first Patriots' superbowl win!!)

anyway... eat sh#t and die! my team's in the big game (again)...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:03am PT
The Seahawks lead the league. In PED suspensions. But balls taken from a warm dry locker room to a cold wet field somehow lost pressure, that's serious. Oh the humanity.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:07am PT
Suspensions?
So what you're saying is they were punished for their wrongdoings.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:22am PT
Some of the Seaderral Searoids were suspended, others accused. But let's wait for the facts on the accused instead of going on a witch hunt.
overwatch

climber
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:26am PT
Fet is on a roll. Seaderral Searoids...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:30am PT
Best media for the Super Bowl I've seen so far [Click to View YouTube Video]

Both Beast Mode and Gronk are hilarious.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:14am PT
Osprey

climber
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:19am PT
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:39am PT


Rock Monkey

Mountain climber
Thousand Oaks, California
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:44am PT
The NFL is definitely routing for the Seahawks so they don't have to hear about the Patriots winning after cheating like that!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:42pm PT
Are you kidding me? Now it comes out that only the ball in the possession of the colts was 2 psi under the rest "just a tic" under. Just the temperature would take the balls down 5%

Okay you can only do so much about leaks and bad reporting. But for the league to not make a statement clarifying the situatuon immediately and defusing the bs witch hunt is really lame.

The head of the league rules committee needs to be fired.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
After awhile it just starts looking like a sick way to promote the game.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
May 6, 2015 - 01:39pm PT
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-issues-deflate-gate-report-tom-brady-generally-aware-of-deflated-footballs/

so, does this mean that the Seahawks get to win Superbowl?

prolly not, but the Patriots should expect some major butthurt from the NFL
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
May 6, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
He probably aid climbs too.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
May 6, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
The patriots might have cheated, we're not really sure! How can this story be knocked off the headliner of cnn by Tsarnaev and off the headliner of huff post by global carbon levels? Seriously where have our society's values gone :-)
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
May 6, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
They have a history of cheating...

Not just aid but I hear he hammers C2
Gene

climber
May 11, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
NFL went hard on Tom, wouldn't you say?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 11, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
4 games he's gotta stay home with his wife in their mega-mansion? HARSH!

BTW, Gene, my man has dropped the price on his Bradbury joint to $48.8! I bet you
could get it for 45 just because you said from the getgo that it wasn't worth a penny
over 50.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 11, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
So lame and I'm disappointed at the more probable than not cheating. I think the punishment is appropriate.

I would like to know more about Brady's testimony and the supposed context that was missing. One of the texts said the refs pumped a ball up to 16 psi.

And conveniently no mention of the ball that was stolen to sell for profit. I have a feeling the NFL it trying to brush some of their misdeeds under the rug.

It will be an interesting season kick off next year without the star QB.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
May 11, 2015 - 07:12pm PT

Who's Tom Brady????
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
Wasn't he the mayor of LA for a while?
Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
May 11, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
I think Tom Brady should be banned from baseball for life.

As for football, he'lll end up missing the first two games, maybe.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 11, 2015 - 09:13pm PT
He got four games and will appeal and might get it cut to two. I figured 4-8 games but didn't expect them to rail the franchise as much as they did.

Most of this punishment is due to him not cooperating (handing over his cell) and straight up lying (saying he didn't know one of the guys yet he texted with him often).

They should also ban him from futbol for life. or soccer. maybe hockey two. Actually... let him play hockey.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 11, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
And yet not even a pinky slap for mastermind Belicheat.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 12, 2015 - 11:04am PT
nfl sees a film (i.e. EVIDENCE) of ray rice dragging his unconscious girlfriend off an elevator, and he gets 2 games

nfl has NOTHING on brady, and he gets 4 games

this is because:

a) brady is white
b) brady plays qb
c) brady has a hot wife
d) brady is a winner
e) all of the above


here's a breakdown of the report: http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/05/12/top-10-reasons-why-an-appeal-overturns-tom-bradys-suspension/

note #5 where aaron rodgers ADMITS to tampering with the footballs

peter king on si.com also offers insight: http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/tom-brady-suspension-patriots-deflategate-punishment/

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 12, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
BOSTON (CBS) — The NFL let the DeflateGate saga carry through the weekend, even dropping a juicy morsel of information/gossip late Friday afternoon for the world to feast on. None of this is an accident.
It’s clear beyond a reasonable doubt — or, I should say, “it’s more probable than not” — that above all else, the NFL lives for the soap opera. The folks who run the league know that the NFL is much, much bigger than any one player, owner or franchise. The NFL is a juggernaut, and while many have wondered how the league benefits by painting the Super Bowl MVP as “Mr. Cheat,” the reality is simple.
The league loves the drama.
No matter what the result of this ridiculous “DeflateGate” situation may be, the fact remains that:
A) We are all talking about the NFL in early May, when the NHL’s and NBA’s playoffs are cranked up and the MLB season is in full swing. Yet every sports radio show around the country is dedicated to the NFL. Phone lines are jammed. The topic dominates national conversation, generates countless headlines, and has yet again made the jump into the news networks. The NFL is very, very happy about this. (Plus, the league knows that air pressure in footballs is not actually cheating, so the level of taint they’re throwing on the 2014 Patriots is just enough to make this a major story, but small enough to not actually affect the integrity of the game that everybody is so worried about.)
B) The cycle can live even longer. The NFL can issue a suspension to Brady, and Brady can then appeal it. That appeal will be heard, and then Brady can have his suspension taken away by an actual independent party. That means for the NFL’s season opener on that Thursday night at Gillette, Tom Brady will be in uniform as the Patriots raise a banner. People won’t have any choice but to watch. Ratings records will be shattered. Win.
Whether Tom Brady comes out of this thing smelling like roses or wearing a proverbial orange jumpsuit, the folks running the league don’t really care.
They just want to keep you tuned in and waiting for more. And they’re pretty damn good at it.
With that established, let’s tackle the one focal point that seems to be driving the most people to believe that Tom Brady is guilty as sin: The Great Cell Phone Refusal Of 2015.
This is the point of contention that many have said paints Brady as hiding evidence. Some people have even said “You know what? Forget the fact that there is no damning evidence on Brady. He ought to be suspended solely because he didn’t give his phone to Ted Wells’ investigation team.”
OK, well “people” in this instance refers to Peter King, who admittedly might be on his own planet with this one. But here’s what he wrote: “I’d give Brady one game, two tops, for failing to turn over his cell phone and the evidence within. This is too important to rely on half-truths and maybes. Goodell, who I believe will come down harshly, can’t listen to the noise. He has to listen to the truth, and the proof.”
This is, in a word, hysterical. I’d suspend this man from playing in the NFL because he didn’t give up his cell phone. Half-truths and maybes are not enough to NOT suspend him, but half-truths and maybes are enough TO suspend him. Yes, this makes sense.
(King’s assertion came after he proved fairly thoroughly that the NFL’s evidence was flimsy at best. Classic.)
King is just the one example I use here, but there are hundreds of voices in the media making this same point.
So, does Brady’s refusal to hand over his cell phone to investigators make him look guilty? Let’s address that critical question.
1. Tom Brady is one of the most prominent members of the players’ union.
This is an important fact because despite Roger Goodell’s illusion, the NFL has no real power in these sham investigations. That means they can’t subpoena anybody to testify or hand over evidence. Cooperation is entirely up to the people who are being accused.
Now, if you fail to cooperate, people (including the investigators) will assume you’re guilty. It’s quite the opposite of the way our criminal justice system works. So, Tom Brady, like the rest of the Patriots, cooperated. He sat with investigators for a full day and answered their questions.
But he did not hand his private phone over to Wells’ team, and for that, people are quick to assign blame. They’re forgetting the fact that Brady is one of the most famous athletes on the planet, and his wife is even more well-known around the globe. He’s been pasted onto the front page of the New York tabloids with juvenile jokes about “balls” dozens of times since January, and that’s without the world peeping his private text messages.
Some might still say, “Well, I’d give my phone over if I had nothing to hide.” But, well, the world doesn’t so much care what Bill from accounting texts to his buddies on a Thursday night. It’s a bit of a different situation for Tom Brady.
If you’re a person of Brady’s stature and you don’t have to expose your private message to the world, you just aren’t going to do it. For one, you don’t have to, but secondly, you’d be setting a precedent for your fellow union members that you must hand over personal, private information when requested.
2. The texts from Richie Incognito in the previous Ted Wells-run report were awful.
Richie Incognito is a relative nobody. He’s the type of guy you might see crushing fries and light beers at a Buffalo Wild Wings on a Tuesday afternoon. He handed his phone over because he was under attack for being a “bully” to another grown man, and his future employment prospects in the NFL depended on Wells clearing his name.
Here’s how Incognito was rewarded for his cooperation. (The texts were much too vulgar to publish unedited, so I’ll do my best to add some colorful [censored] words.)
“I’m going to shoot you and claim self defense … I’m white ur black I’ll walk”
“I got the worst [sexual favor] ever!”
“Don’t forget the cocaine too … No dude hookers u [homosexual slur] … Don’t blame ur gay tendancies on [name redacted] … Stop it.”
“U good dude? Did u get some chick pregnant? I’ll help u off her if that’s the case”
“They are massive and fake. I love fake [ones] … Is it wrong that I want to get wasted again and talk to babes … Ur black and I hate u”
“That’s the gayest [crap] I’ve ever heard. U really are a [homosexual slur]”
“Ur a [P-word] … [P-word]…[P-word]… [P-word] U are no longer my road dog”
That’s just a sampling of the thousand or so text messages from Incognito to Jonathan Martin which were pasted on the Internet for all the world to see.
Granted, it is highly unlikely that Brady engages in text message conversations that are as ridiculous as Incognito’s. But the tabloids would have a field day with anything Brady said to anybody. And given the ridiculous number of leaks that were coming out of the league office at that time — including Jim McNally’s name and town of residence getting pasted all over ESPN.com in the midst of the investigation — there is nothing the NFL could have said to Brady to convince him that the private messages would actually be protected by the investigation team.
Brady’s a generally private guy, and again, this was an investigation into the PSI of footballs used in a football game. So he kept that phone in his pocket.
3. All of Brady’s communications with Jastremski also show up on Jastremski’s phone, which the Wells team examined.
This is the most obvious point that has seemingly been glossed over by everybody. If Brady texted or called Jastremski, the investigators could see that via Jastremski’s phone. And they did. So there’s no need for any of Goodell’s henchmen to snoop on Brady’s texts to Gisele or anybody else for the sake of an investigation into air pressure in footballs.
4. When Robert Mueller investigated the NFL for its cover-up mishandling of the Ray Rice elevator video … league executives only turned over their company-issued cell phones.
This was pointed out to me by an astute reader on Twitter, and it checks out. You’ll remember that last year, the NFL paid Robert Mueller to investigate the NFL, and Robert Mueller (surprise surprise) concluded that NFL hadn’t really done anything wrong.
In the course of that investigation, Mueller needed some evidence. Here’s an excerpt from Page 7 of the appendix of Mueller’s report:
“We identified the most logical persons to have received and viewed the in-elevator video. We imaged each of their devices — their computers, as well as their League mobile phones and tablets, if they had one. … In total, we imaged 51 computers, 42 mobile devices or tablets, and two external storage devices.”
Page 47 of that report also makes the distinction that the investigation examined “League” mobile phones and devices. That excludes personal phones and devices.
Now, that same Twitter user noted that Tom Brady’s cell phone, as listed in the Wells report, had a 917 area code, which would mean it was put into service in New York City.

An excerpt from Page 102 of the Wells report.

An excerpt from Page 104 of the Wells report.
New York City, as you might be aware, is not in Foxborough, Massachusetts. So the phone in question was more likely than not a personal phone of Brady.
So, when the NFL is under investigation, its executives need not turn over personal cell phones. But when a player is under investigation, he must relinquish his own privacy to satisfy the demands of those same executives, or else he will be considered guilty for not cooperating.
If it sounds like a double standard, and if it sounds like guilt is being cast on Tom Brady despite an obvious lack of evidence, that’s because it’s exactly what’s taking place.
Read more from Michael Hurley by clicking here. You can email him or find him on Twitter @michaelFhurley.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/11/deflategate-why-tom-brady-didnt-give-his-phone-to-ted-wells-investigation-team/
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 12, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
Brady/Patriots' punishment?
Total BS
Assuming the NFL has evidence that would stand up in court he should be banned for life for interfering in the outcome of a game. Assuming Patriots' staff knew/colluded they should also be kicked out of the league.

Now if they don't have such evidence they should say so and shouldn't levy any penalties.

It's all about what TV advertisers call "eyeballs" and what the NFL really cares about - profits. Just enough penalty to make it look as if the NFL is standing up for "good sportsmanship". Slap wrists. Wag fingers. And take the next bag of cash to the bank.
No penalties and they'd be afraid they'd lose some eyeballs.

total BS
not that I really give a rat's arse.
The concussion problem is gonna sink the league anyway. There's the malfeasance of both NFL and teams that's going to really empty their bank accounts.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
May 12, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
Cheaters. Brady cheated and those ball boys cheated and bellicheck cheated because he's the smartest guy in the room and the league is all fvcked up and cheating because they're pretending to not condone this cheating to make a few more bucks. And are those other cheater humans still going to watch and support this travesty of cheating?

And really what's going to sink them is the concussions and the risk of injury that they take to entertain us. That's just irresponsible and immoral!

I'm going climbing now with no helmet, but I'm not cheating I'm one of the good people because I climb in good style and my heroes are free soloists who fall to their death leaving their children fatherless.

Carry on :-)
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 12, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
There's climbing in Atlanta?
Osprey

climber
May 12, 2015 - 06:20pm PT
The needle and the damage done.

Take away his Hall of Fame eligibility as all evidence points to him doing this since at least 2007.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 13, 2015 - 11:21am PT
Osprey.... Pretty harsh, IMHO

As an official in motor racin I know that everyone wants an edge. "If your not cheating your not trying hard enuf" is the saying.....

Allowing the teams to inflate and manage the balls is just asking for some "out of spec" balls.

It would be like letting the motor builders tech their own motors.

If the game ball pressure is so important to the outcome of the game, then only officials should work on the balls.

The NFL dropped the ball.

End of story
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2015 - 11:25am PT
I think Tiger Woods cheating on Lindsay Vonn is a far bigger story.
What a freaking IDIOT! BAN HIM!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 13, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
all evidence points to him doing this since at least 2007

Except for the officials saying they never recalled McNally taking the balls to the field himself before, he was always accompanied by an official.

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to guilt, but there's so many holes in the report (can't keep which gauges used straight, no record of levels before the game, no consistency in the psi levels when the balls were tested at half time, Brady saying they did nothing wrong privately in a text after the investigation started) especially with regards to Brady's involvement. And the report ignored everything that made the NFL itself look bad (game balls sold for profit, bungled operation, different standard/gauge used for COLTS balls vs. pats balls.

The Pats look guilty but there's definitely more to the story than is being told. I'd have to agree with a lot of people that think this has been blown way out of proportion (deflated balls are the worst violation ever? worse than PEDs, fake crowd noise, domestic abuse) to divert attention from bigger problems in the NFL.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 13, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
or 2004

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-aj-feeley-tom-brady-deflategate-20150513-story.html


You can argue that Goodell blundered this one as well. Everyone would agree on that. He blunders just about everything.

But this was about more than deflated footballs.

It was about Brady lying that he didn't know McNally as well as his refusal to hand over his phone. Yeah... do that Tom... and we'll see just how much of a liar he is.

It's also about Goodell making a statement about "The Patriot's way". Cheat and keep cheating - it's systematic through the entire organization or so it appears.

An excellent point was made in regards to the obscure formations that Pats used against the Ravens. Were they within the rules? Yes. Were they within the spirit of the game. Nope. Pats way.

I have little respect left for Brady and the Pats. None for Billacheat.

Micheal Bennett had a great TMZ interview that got released today. He said yes to "is Brady a cheater". And then was asked about the Superbowl to which he replied - they beat us and Brady had a great game.

And if anyone wants to compare this to a court of law compare it to a civil court and not a criminal court. Beyond a reasonable doubt is not required to rail them the way they have. Thus the "more than likely" language.

So no, didn't believe that Brady dude then and don't believe him now. Perhaps what is most telling is the narcissistic Pats fans defending him/them to no end.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 14, 2015 - 04:23am PT
" the narcissistic Pats fans defending him/them to no end."

aaron rodgers ADMITTED to tampering with the balls; he told cbs, “I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football...even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.”

where's your outrage?

rodgers prefers his footballs to be rock hard because he thinks it helps him throw the ball harder and farther, which means brady's "cheating" would put him at a disadvantage

if you think the pats' clever interpretation of the rules is "cheating", you should be demanding the officials be fired since they apparently didn't know the rules

and i'm sure you want all these "cheaters" arrested because they didn't follow the "spirit" of the law

http://www.dailyrepublic.com/usworld/sacramento-moves-to-ban-nudity-on-streets-sidewalks/

just admit your hate


here's breitbart's analysis:

#10. Ted Wells Judges 100 Seconds Enough Time to Deflate Balls But 13 Minutes Not Long Enough for Refs to Test Balls?

If a Dutch teenager could solve a Rubik’s cube in less than six seconds, then it’s certainly possible that a beer distributor from New Hampshire could deflate a bag of unwieldy prolate spheroids in 100 seconds before the AFC Championship Game. Whether he did or not, we don’t know because the bathroom door shielded his activities. But the possibility, like the possibility the he merely took a leak himself, is not implausible, so this supposition by Wells, though entirely speculative, surely does not fall into the “outrageous” category. It’s when the investigator shifts the conversation to the Colts balls that he reveals a prejudice. Wells states (p. 70) that “it is estimated that the footballs were inside the [referee] locker room for approximately 13 minutes and 30 seconds” at halftime. But that (p. 7) “[o]nly four Colts balls were tested because the officials were running out of time before the start of the second half.” Get it? Wells finds 100 seconds ample time for one guy to deflate 12 footballs in a cramped bathroom but 810 seconds too brief a period for a room full of referees to gauge even half that number of Colts footballs.

#9 Wells Report Labels Texts Undermining Case a ‘Joke,’ Texts Buttressing Case Dead Serious

When the text messages of Patriots employees undermine Wells’s case, they joke. When the texts support Wells’s case, the texters display unmistakable earnestness. So, when ball handler Jim McNally threatens (pp. 5, 13, 77, 78) to overinflate pigskins to the size of a “rugby ball,” a “watermelon,” or a “balloon,” he clearly jests, according to Wells, as he does (pp. 15, 80) when he says, “The only thing deflating sun..is [Brady’s] passing rating.” But when he calls himself, in the same chain of texts, the “deflator,” he writes in all seriousness even if in a “joking tone,” according to Wells. In every instance, the language dismissed as “jokes” undermines the case and the language seized upon as serious, which appears as a reading-between-the-lines reach, suggests guilt. When the beleaguered ball handlers insist the texts represent kidding around, Wells (p. 80) states: “We do not view these explanations as plausible or consistent with common sense.” All kidding aside, the interpretation says more about the interpreters than the interpreted.

#8. Ted Wells Doesn’t Really Know the Pregame Pressure Levels

The entire Wells Report is based on an assumption that all of the Colts balls measured at 13.0 and all the Patriots balls measured at 12.5 before the game despite referee Walt Anderson conceding some variation (p. 52). Wells admits that the NFL referees did not bother to document the pregame measurements despite the Colts tipping off the NFL to their suspicions and the NFL warning the referees to watch for ball pressure. And despite the halftime measurements showing considerable fluctuations (p. 8) from ball to ball and considerable fluctuations in measurements of the same ball from referee to referee, the report insists on using neat, consistent pregame measurements of 13.0 for each Colts ball and 12.5 for each Patriots ball. Wells accepts the uniform 13.0/12.5 measurements in part because of “the level of confidence [referee Walt] Anderson expressed in his recollection” that the balls came in around those levels.

#7 After Relying on Walt Anderson’s ‘Best Recollection,’ Wells Disregards It

Here’s where things get interesting. According (pp. 51-52) to Anderson’s “best recollection,” he used the gauge with a Wilson logo and “the long, crooked needle,” calibrated by Wells’s scientists as finding lower pressure readings, to gauge balls before the game. This is important because if the ref used this gauge that Wells’s scientific consultants measured as taking consistently lower readings, then this would force Wells to rely on this particular gauge for halftime readings. Relying on this gauge clears eight of eleven Pats balls. But in this instance, Wells decided to dismiss Anderson’s “best recollection” and maintain that Anderson used the other gauge before the game. That certainly helps his case but it’s difficult to think of anything that helps one come to that conclusion. His scientists—going against the testimony of a referee entering his twentieth season in the NFL—claim (p. 116) that “Walt Anderson most likely used the Non-Logo Gauge to inspect the game balls prior to the game.” Why? As Mike Florio, who outlines this scandalous aspect of the report, writes: “That’s how investigations that start with a predetermined outcome and work backward unfold.”

#6. The Refs and Their Gauges Fluctuated Greatly

The halftime pressure readings on each ball vary considerably from referee to referee. There is no uniformity in one ref’s readings showing higher or lower than the other’s, suggesting human error or defective equipment. But either of these possibilities kills Wells’s case, so he offers a theory explaining this away. He maintains (pp. 116-117) that “it appears most likely that the two officials switched gauges in between measuring each team’s footballs.” While Clete Blakeman’s readings uniformly measure .3 to .45 psi lower on the Patriots balls than Dyrol Prioleau’s readings, Blakeman’s readings consistently run higher, but on just three of four Colts balls, than Prioleau’s. Apart from this inconsistency that raises serious questions about the digital gauges, their batteries, and the people running them, the Wells Report’s raw data—in contradiction to the narrative—definitively answers that at least one of the gauges, or perhaps one of the refs, erred. How else to explain the .3 to .45 psi variances on all of the balls?

#5 The NFL Doesn’t Punish for Ball Tampering

Brady denies tampering. Another, some might argue better, quarterback admits it. “I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football,” Aaron Rodgers told CBS’s Phil Simms pre-Deflategate, “even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.” Aside from the rule-breaking admission, the Green Bay Packers QB’s preference for bigger footballs brings into question whether a lack of pressure provides an advantage or caters to a preference. Additionally, Fox’s cameras caught the Minnesota Vikings and Carolina Panthers heating balls this past season in frigid Minneapolis. NFL officiating guru Dean Blandino told the teams to knock it off. Rodgers has thus far escaped both the tongue lashing and the $25,000 fine. Rule 2, Section 1 states: “The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications…. the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.” This didn’t happen. “In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted,” Rule 2, Section 2 holds, “the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball.” This didn’t happen.

#4. Wells Report Misleadingly Says Pats Shielded Ball Handler from Follow-Up Interview

“We believe the failure by the Patriots and its Counsel to produce [Jim] McNally for the requested follow-up interview violated the club’s obligations to cooperate with the investigation under the Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of League Rules and was inconsistent with public statements made by the Patriots pledging full cooperation with the investigation,” maintains the Wells Report. At best, the language (p. 20) proves misleading. It turns out, the Patriots made the employee in question, Jim McNally, available for three follow-up interviews. Only on the request for a fifth interrogation did the franchise say no more interviews for the game-day employee who lives 75 miles from Gillette Stadium. “I was offended by the comments made in the Wells Report in reference to not making an individual available for a follow-up interview,” Patriots owner Bob Kraft responded. “What the report fails to mention is that he had already been interviewed four times and we felt the fifth request for access was excessive for a part-time game day employee who has a full-time job with another employer.”

#3 A Whole Lot of ‘More Probably Than Not’ Adds Up to Unlikely

Judging it “more probable than not” that Tom Brady was “generally aware”—whatever that means—of an event itself judged “more probable than not” does not make for a statistically airtight, or even compelling, case. Add in all the other “more probable than not” suppositions, such as those dismissing Walt Anderson’s recollection on what pregame gauge he used or theorizing that the refs switched gauges during halftime, and suddenly a 50 percent+1 finding becomes 25 percent, then 12.5 percent, and so on.

#2 Wells Cherry Picks Data

The report’s assertions repeatedly conflict with its data on ball pressure. “Specifically, all but three of the Patriots footballs, as measured by both gauges, registered pressure levels lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law,” the report claims. This just isn’t true, which a chart presented by Wells (p. 8) plainly shows. Eight of the balls measured by referee Dyrol Prioleau showed readings at or above where Wells’s own scientists said balls inflated to 12.5 psi before the game would hit at halftime because of weather conditions. Wells states that “the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half.” Ball 1 (11.80), Ball 3 (11.50), Ball 5 (11.45), Ball 6 (11.95), Ball 7 (12.30), Ball 8 (11.55), Ball 9 (11.35), and Ball 11 (11.35) all registered above 11.32 by Prioleau’s readings (Balls 1, 6, and 7 also did so by Blakeman’s). Put another way, three Pats balls came in above the range outlined by the scientists, three Pats balls came in below the range, and five came within the range. In response to these completely normal measurements, Wells opts to dismiss the findings of a field judge with eight years NFL experience just as he dismissed the recollection of a referee entering his twentieth season in the NFL.

#1 NFL Uses Different Ball Pressure Standard for Pats and Colts

Whereas Wells ignores the best-case-scenario readings for the Patriots and highlights the worst-case scenario ones, he exclusively relies on the highest possible measurements when discussing Colts balls. He says (p. 52) at halftime, “No air was added to the Colts balls tested because they each registered within the permissible inflation range on at least one of the two gauges used.” Notice the different standard? For the Patriots, he talks about balls not passing muster on “both gauges.” For the Colts, he employs a “one of the two gauges used” standard. Apart from whitewashing the inconvenient truth that one referee judged a majority of Pats balls where Wells’s scientists said balls inflated to regulation before the game would read at halftime, this underhanded tactic enables Wells to gloss over the fact that three Colts balls lost so much pressure after a half, despite supposedly coming in at 13.0 to begin with, that they fell short of the NFL standard on at least one ref’s gauge. Relying on the lower gauge when its suits the NFL’s purposes and then both gauges when expediency demands it, like accepting Walt Anderson’s recollections when it suits and dismissing them when it doesn’t, suggests a bias that an unbiased arbiter will likely find objectionable enough to dismiss the suspension.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2015 - 07:22am PT
heroes of american ballsports cheating? I'm shocked. I won't believe it until the senate investigates.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
Turn him over, he's done.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-brady-s-destroyed-cell-phone-is-smoking-gun-that-crushed-the-patriots-superstar-210251124.html

He saved Goodell's reputation and Roger knew what was up all along. I'm so not a fan of that guy but dam I have to give him credit on this one. He played a chess match and won in a couple moves.

What a small insert sex organ, pick your gender.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-brady-s-destroyed-cell-phone-is-smoking-gun-that-crushed-the-patriots-superstar-210251124.html


Cheater.

Indignant Cheater.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
What say you EdH,PhD? What say you all?


Engineering and physics professors weigh in on Tom Brady’s Deflategate appeal

They did not invoke G*^^*D, but rather science (look out Herr Braun incoming).

“In the name of science, we support the petition for rehearing,” the papers said.

http://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2016/05/24/engineering-physics-professors-weigh-tom-bradys-deflategate-appeal
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 25, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
Re: Brady
there's no direct evidence he did anything wrong
If he did anything wrong it was a minor equipment violation, which should have been a fine
If he did anything wrong it had no impact on that game

Re: NFL
Jumped to the conclusion
Didn't know balls naturally lose pressure due to temperature changes
Lied and leaked false information
Won't release the data of ball pressures taken last season

Re: the court case
It's really about whether arbitration can be completely unfair and capricious or it needs to meet some degree of fairness. If the court case was about Brady's guilt it would have been over long ago. There's no evidence he did anything.

This could have a big impact on arbitration nationwide at least for sports teams. Many people will refuse arbitration if they feel the process can be unfair.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Pretty good recap The Fet.

You ever notice in how many of the financial "services" terms and conditions you accede to by continuing to use them, arbitration is your only choice in a dispute?

You ever notice how arbitrators get work? The process is completely biased toward big financial institutions.



WBraun

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
The ball did it.

It's always the ball just like it's always the butler did it.

The ball should be fined and given a four game suspension.

No football for first four games in the NFL this year.

But they can't do that.

There would be mass suicide by fans who can't live without football ....

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 25, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
I just got an email about a class action lawsuit settlement from ticketmaster. Yey, I get a discount off future purchases because they ripped me off!

But what's really interesting is that this is the last lawsuit. They changed their terms and conditions to requiring arbitration. Gee I wonder why they did that? No such thing as class action arbitration so they are more free to do more unfair business practices.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 25, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
What say you EdH,PhD? What say you all?

maybe I have a post here somewhere, my initial calculations showed that the variability of the pressure in the balls for that game is consistent with the temperature difference assuming some initial temperature inside where the balls were inflated and the game temperatures outside.

However, the pressure gauges aren't particularly precision instruments, and there could be systematic differences among different gauges, if you had one that "read high" to test initially, and one that "read low" when you retested them at half-time, you could come to some strange conclusions...
...this is probably what happened to the Colts' balls, which did not seem to deflate, even though they should have, the initial fill with a gauge that "read low" and the half-time reading with the "read-high" gauge.

The only way of doing this accurately is to fill all the balls together and measure their pressure with the same gauge for all the measurements.

===

BUT

the NFL rule is not practical since the ideal gas law relates the three attributes of the football: pressure, temperature and volume.

If you keep the volume fixed, then the pressure and the temperature have to track... the rule ignores temperature, and says the volume and the pressure have to be in some prescribed range, without taking into account the possible temperature variations at the game venue. It turns out the for many venues, the temperature variation is large enough to that the balls cannot be filled once and meet the specs for the entire game.

It's a stupid rule... unless you have someone constantly monitoring the pressure in the balls, and that's even stupider.

They should just let the QB's decide how they want the balls inflated... I can't imagine why they thought it was necessary to make this rule.

===

Certainly, the ball inflation wasn't an issue in this game, the Colts really played poorly.

I also find it strange that the good cold weather play of the Patriots was attributed to cheating, rather than the more likely explanation that they practice cold weather play and players who screw up are pulled out of the game very quickly (fumbles, etc), so the players are very motivated to play well. More teams could do that, too...

zBrown

Ice climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Could warrant a thread all it's own.


BizWeek: Leading Arbitration Firm Favors Creditors Over Individuals



The story focuses on credit-card collection arbitrations, citing internal NAF documents, case results, and interviews with NAF arbitrators for the proposition that NAF “operates a system in which it is exceedingly difficult for individuals to prevail.”



http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/06/10/bizweek-leading-arbitration-firm-favors-creditors-over-individuals/




the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 26, 2016 - 09:12am PT
The Colts balls did "deflate". It's just the Patriots balls deflated about 0.5 psi more on average than the Colts.

But there's so many factors in play so that the 0.5 psi difference may not even exist. 1. Pats balls were used more, so were out of the ball bag getting colder while on the field 2. At half time Pats balls were tested first, then the Colts balls which had more time to warm up and have a pressure rise 3. gauges were inaccurate and showed different readings, the difference between the two gauges was more than 0.5 psi 4. Gauges were likely switched at one point during the testing at half time because all of a sudden the numbers changed but they didn't record which gauge was used. 5. Only 3 or 4 of the Colts balls were tested.

To me that's the main evidence. What was the difference between the Pats and Colts (control group) balls. There seems to be a difference but it seems within the margin of error to me. And even if it is a full 0.5 psi difference would Tom Brady really want someone to let out so little air? And do it very quickly in a random way so the balls might end up being different pressures? Seems like consistency is more important than a little less pressure.

There's a good chance Tom Brady is innocent and if so I completely understand him fighting this to the end. He was willing to take a suspension for lack of cooperation but will not admit cheating. As I wouldn't if I was innocent.
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