Great Muslims

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 7, 2015 - 10:16am PT
I'll start out with Noor Inayat Khan.

Indian, British, French, American, Sufi Muslim.

The first female secret agent put into France during WWII to help the resistance.






Inayat Khan, the eldest of four children, was born in Moscow. Her siblings were Vilayat (born 1916), Hidayat (born 1917), and Khair-un-Nisa (born 1919). Her father, Hazrat Inayat Khan, came from a noble Indian Muslim family - his mother was a descendant of the uncle of Tipu Sultan, the 18th-century ruler of the Kingdom of Mysore. He lived in Europe as a musician and a teacher of Sufism. Her mother Ameena Begum (Ora Meena Ray Baker) was an American from Albuquerque, New Mexico, who met Hazrat Inayat Khan during his travels in the United States. Ora Baker was the half-sister of American yogi and scholar Pierre Bernard, her guardian at the time she met Inayat (Hazrat is an honorific, translated as Saint). Vilayat later became head of the Sufi Order International.

In 1914, shortly before the outbreak of the First World War, the family left Russia for London, and lived in Bloomsbury. Inayat Khan attended nursery at Notting Hill. In 1920 they moved to France, settling in Suresnes near Paris, in a house that was a gift from a benefactor of the Sufi movement. After the death of her father in 1927, Inayat Khan took on the responsibility for her grief-stricken mother and her younger siblings. As a young girl, she was described as quiet, shy, sensitive, and dreamy, she studied child psychology at the Sorbonne and music at the Paris Conservatory under Nadia Boulanger, composing for harp and piano. She began a career writing poetry and children's stories and became a regular contributor to children's magazines and French radio. In 1939 her book, Twenty Jataka Tales (ISBN 978-0892813230), inspired by the Jataka tales of Buddhist tradition, was published in London.

After the outbreak of the Second World War, when France was overrun by German troops, the family fled to Bordeaux and, from there by sea, to England, landing in Falmouth, Cornwall, on 22 June 1940.


Although Inayat Khan was deeply influenced by the pacifist teachings of her father, she and her brother Vilayat decided to help defeat Nazi tyranny: "I wish some Indians would win high military distinction in this war. If one or two could do something in the Allied service which was very brave and which everybody admired it would help to make a bridge between the English people and the Indians."

On 19 November 1940, she joined the Women's Auxiliary Air Force (WAAF) and, as an Aircraftwoman 2nd Class, was sent to be trained as a wireless operator. Upon assignment to a bomber training school in June 1941, she applied for a commission in an effort to relieve herself of the boring work there, subsequently being promoted Assistant Section Officer.






Later, Inayat Khan was recruited to join F (France) Section of the Special Operations Executive and in early February 1943 she was posted to the Air Ministry, Directorate of Air Intelligence, seconded to First Aid Nursing Yeomanry (FANY), and sent to Wanborough Manor, near Guildford in Surrey, and from there to various other SOE schools for training, including STS 5 Winterfold House, STS 36 Boarmans and STS 52 Thame Park. During her training she adopted the name "Nora Baker".

Her superiors held mixed opinions on her suitability for secret warfare, and her training was incomplete. Nevertheless, her fluent French and her competency in wireless operation—coupled with a shortage of experienced agents—made her a desirable candidate for service in Nazi-occupied France. On 16/17 June 1943, cryptonymed 'Madeleine'/W/T operator 'Nurse' and under the cover identity of Jeanne-Marie Regnier, Assistant Section Officer/Ensign Inayat Khan was flown to landing ground B/20A 'Indigestion' in Northern France on a night landing double Lysander operation, code named Teacher/Nurse/Chaplain/Monk. She was met by Henri Déricourt.

She travelled to Paris, and with two other women, Diana Rowden (code named Paulette/Chaplain), and Cecily Lefort (code named Alice/Teacher), joined the Physician network led by Francis Suttill (code named Prosper). Over the next month and a half, all the other Physician network radio operators were arrested by the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), along with hundreds of Resistance personnel associated with Prosper. Colonel Maurice Buckmaster, head of F Section, later claimed that in spite of the danger, Inayat Khan rejected an offer to return to Britain, although it was certainly in SOE's interest that she stay in the field in the aftermath of the round-up of their largest network. As the only remaining wireless operator still at large in Paris, Inayat Khan continued to transmit to London messages from agents of what remained of the Prosper/Physician circuit, a network she also worked to keep intact despite the mass arrests of its members. She was now the most wanted British agent in Paris with SD officers sent out to look for her at subway stations, and an accurate description of her widely circulated among German security officers. With wireless detection vans in close pursuit, Inayat Khan could transmit for only twenty minutes at one time in one place, but constantly moving from place to place, she managed to escape capture while maintaining wireless communication with London: "She refused to abandon what had become the most important and dangerous post in France and did excellent work."




Inayat Khan was betrayed to the Germans, either by Henri Déricourt or by Renée Garry. Déricourt (code name Gilbert) was an SOE officer and former French Air Force pilot who had been suspected of working as a double agent for the Sicherheitsdienst. Garry was the sister of Émile Garry, Inayat Khan's organizer in the Cinema network (later renamed Phono).[9] Allegedly paid 100,000 francs, Renée Garry's actions have been attributed by some to jealousy due to Garry's suspicion that she had lost the affections of SOE agent France Antelme to Inayat Khan.

On or around 13 October 1943, Inayat Khan was arrested and interrogated at the SD Headquarters at 84 Avenue Foch in Paris. Though SOE trainers had expressed doubts about her gentle and unworldly character, on her arrest she fought so fiercely that SD officers were afraid of her. She was thenceforth treated as an extremely dangerous prisoner. There is no evidence of her being tortured, but her interrogation lasted over a month. During that time, she attempted escape twice. Hans Kieffer, the former head of the SD in Paris, testified after the war that she did not give the Gestapo a single piece of information, but lied consistently.




On 11 September 1944, Inyayat Khan and three other SOE agents from Karlsruhe prison, Yolande Beekman, Eliane Plewman, and Madeleine Damerment, were moved to the Dachau Concentration Camp. In the early morning hours of 13 September 1944, the four women were executed by a shot to the back of the head. Their bodies were immediately burned in the crematorium. An anonymous Dutch prisoner, who emerged in 1958, contended that Inayat Khan was cruelly beaten by a high-ranking SS officer named Wilhelm Ruppert before being shot from behind; the beating may have been the actual cause of her death.[15] She may also have been sexually assaulted while in custody. Her last word has been recorded as, "Liberté"


Who is yours?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:21am PT
LOL!

How about great Persians?

or great Arabs?

or great Afghanis?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2015 - 10:24am PT
LOL!

Post up, bitch.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:27am PT
For something a little more recent; Malala Yousafzai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:35am PT
Why not just "Great People"?

What difference does it make what book(s) of fables and nonsense someone claims to believe in (to great varying degrees).

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:37am PT
There you go. :)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2015 - 10:39am PT
Because the Muslim hate and fear factor is pretty much off the chart these days for (insert your reason here).

So in my case, I choose to highlight a Muslim who did her thing for freedom and democracy.

Put up whatever kind of thread you like.

If you don't like my thread, start your own.
Why not that?


Edit: Thanks skcreidc.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:42am PT
the Muslim hate and fear factor

lol!

now you're sounding like a fundamentalist Christian, haha!

Confusing criticism of Islam with "racism" is now only a baby step away at 5.6.

"You got this." ;)
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:44am PT
I understand that, but even if there wasn't a single "great n' famous" self-proclaimed Muslim it shouldn't matter.... Billions raising their families, going to work every day to simply do what we do ourselves...

But the famous angle might work. good post.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:15am PT
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:20am PT

Al-Khwarizmi - Father of Algebra

Al-Khwarizmi most important work Hisab al-jabr w'al-muqabala written in 830 gives us the word algebra . This treatise classifies the solution of quadratic equations and gives geometric methods for completing the square. No symbols are used and no negative or zero coefficients were allowed.

Al-Khwarizmi also wrote on Hindu-Arabic numerals. The Arabic text is lost, but a Latin translation, Algoritmi de numero Indorum in English Al-Khwarizmi on the Hindu Art of Reckoning gave rise to the word algorithm deriving from his name in the title.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:27am PT
I could see where you were going with this Survival.

On that note, this is a complicated world we live in. Things are not always as they seem. Just some thoughts.

Note that use of the scientific method, was dominated from about 750 ad to 1250 ad by Arab-Islamic scholars. Following the Quran's advice that "The scholar's ink is more sacred than the blood of martyrs", Muslims gave us Arabic numerals, algebra, algorithms, and alchemy; they gave us our names of most of the stars visible to the eye: Aldebaran, the Andromeda galaxy, Betelgeuse, Deneb, Rigel, Vega, and hundreds more; following the Quran's teaching "For every disease, Allah has given a cure," Arab-Islamic doctors furthered the art of surgery, built hospitals, developed pharmacology, and compiled all the world's medical knowledge into comprehensive encyclopedias and the seminal Canon of Medicine; and they advanced art and architecture beyond what even the mighty Greeks and Romans had begun. This golden age ended at least in part because of the crusades and the burning of the libraries of books that had been amassed. The crusades gave Islam other things to focus on with the limited resources they had and things were never the same.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:36am PT
So far quite telling.

A few great Muslims but nothing to do with their religion or its driving ideology.

Of course the irony regarding Malala is outstanding.

Were it a "great scientists" thread there would probably be a reference to the person's achievements in science. Same with "great musicians" or "great football players."

Still holding my breath...

.....

Muslims gave us Arabic numerals, algebra, algorithms, and alchemy...

Yeah, and Christians gave us the aeroplane, telegraph, penicillin, etc.. lol

.....

"The scholar's ink is more sacred than the blood of martyrs."

In the Koran? I don't think so. You have a ref for that?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:45am PT
^^^and the Chinese gave us the compass among other things. The point I get out of this is just to be a little more open minded. I personally think religions are very scary generally due to their use as political tools to divide people. Tribal mentality on steroids.

edit;

"The scholar's ink is more sacred than the blood of martyrs."

In the Koran? I don't think so. You have a ref for that?

You are right that is not from the Koran. It's from a 6th or 7th century Islamic scholar who I don't remember off the top of my head. I am pretty sure the second is though. But, this is mostly off the top of my head and as quick as possible, so......
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:49am PT

... my thought too...

take the bad guys

but not the whole population

... never go with the mob...
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:51am PT
This golden age ended at least in part because of the crusades and the burning of the libraries of books that had been amassed. The crusades gave Islam other things to focus on with the limited resources they had and things were never the same.

Another reason was the ban on representation of people. This ban was, I recall, made because people were made in the image of Mohammed and making an image of Mohammed was forbidden (or was it some other reason?).

So many advances in science were stalled.

Medicine: It was Leonardo do Vinci symbolizes the next step for medicine, studying dead bodies and drawing the organs and muscles and bones so he could learn principles of anatomy and, through his drawings, others could learn from his research.

In the physical sciences: painters and artists in the West, experimenting with accurately representing three-dimensional reality on a two-dimensional piece of canvas, learned about lenses, geometry, shadows, light. Refraction and reflection of light.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:52am PT
The point I get out of this is just to be a little more open minded.

Yeah, well, study or scholarship in an subject, with a corresponding buildup of expertise and/or knowledge, puts limits on "open-mindedness" as I'm sure you know.

Grandma was very open-minded concerning the claim that the moon was made out of cheese.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:58am PT
The POTUS!
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
I need to go back through a couple books, but I remember there being a definite science being anti Islam theme helping end the "golden age" as Crunch says. Its a complicated combination of factors with the crusades likely being an excuse to reign in the population. At least that is my bullshit thought at this point (not being a scholar in this stuff).

FYI my mom and dad are christian and I am not. I've had a couple discussions with my mom about dinosaurs and men coexisting on earth (I AM trained as a geologist, hydrogeologist, and geochemist). Makes for interesting conversations.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:01pm PT

Alhazen, optics and the scientific method


Abū ʿAlī al-Ḥasan ibn al-Ḥasan ibn al-Haytham (Arabic: أبو علي، الحسن بن الحسن بن الهيثم‎), frequently referred to as Ibn al-Haytham (Arabic: ابن الهيثم, Latinized as Alhazen or Alhacen; c. 965 – c. 1040), was an Arab, Muslim, scientist, polymath, mathematician, astronomer and philosopher who made significant contributions to the principles of optics, astronomy, mathematics, meteorology, visual perception and the scientific method.

Alhazen's most famous work is his seven-volume treatise on optics Kitab al-Manazir (Book of Optics), written from 1011 to 1021.

Optics was translated into Latin by an unknown scholar at the end of the 12th century or the beginning of the 13th century.[39] It was printed by Friedrich Risner in 1572, with the title Opticae thesaurus: Alhazeni Arabis libri septem, nuncprimum editi; Eiusdem liber De Crepusculis et nubium ascensionibus (English : Optics treasure: Arab Alhazeni seven books, published for the first time: The book of the Twilight of the clouds and ascensions).[40] Risner is also the author of the name variant "Alhazen"; before Risner he was known in the west as Alhacen, which is the correct transcription of the Arabic name.[41] This work enjoyed a great reputation during the Middle Ages. Works by Alhazen on geometric subjects were discovered in the Bibliothèque nationale in Paris in 1834 by E. A. Sedillot. Other manuscripts are preserved in the Bodleian Library at Oxford and in the library of Leiden.

An aspect associated with Alhazen's optical research is related to systemic and methodological reliance on experimentation (i'tibar)(Arabic: إعتبار) and controlled testing in his scientific inquiries. Moreover, his experimental directives rested on combining classical physics (ilm tabi'i) with mathematics (ta'alim; geometry in particular). This mathematical-physical approach to experimental science supported most of his propositions in Kitab al-Manazir (The Optics; De aspectibus or Perspectivae) and grounded his theories of vision, light and colour, as well as his research in catoptrics and dioptrics (the study of the refraction of light). Bradley Steffens in his book Ibn Al-Haytham: First Scientist has argued that Alhazen's approach to testing and experimentation made an important contribution to the scientific method. According to Matthias Schramm, Alhazen:
was the first to make a systematic use of the method of varying the experimental conditions in a constant and uniform manner, in an experiment showing that the intensity of the light-spot formed by the projection of the moonlight through two small apertures onto a screen diminishes constantly as one of the apertures is gradually blocked up.

G. J. Toomer expressed some skepticism regarding Schramm's view, arguing that caution is needed to avoid reading anachronistically particular passages in Alhazen's very large body of work, and while acknowledging Alhazen's importance in developing experimental techniques, argued that he should not be considered in isolation from other Islamic and ancient thinkers.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:01pm PT

The west would still be in the Dark Ages if it weren't for Muslims.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
survival

Because the Muslim hate and fear factor is pretty much off the chart these days for (insert your reason here).

So in my case, I choose to highlight a Muslim who did her thing for freedom and democracy.

Highlighting a Muslim, whose notable contributions took place 70 years ago seems counter-productive.

If your intent is to illustrate Muslims are not all bad, maybe you could provide some noteworthy Muslims, still living.

The issue seems to be about the modern Muslim world, not individual contributions from past generations.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
The west would still be in the Dark Ages if it weren't for Muslims.

You can't possibly be serious.

(Neil degrasse Tyson speaks to this very thing. Arabs, yes, had a role in the continuity, but one that's been wildly mythologized since, notwithstanding the arabic inventions, languaging, etc..)
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
Bubbles. That is an interesting link lol. Not too sure what she has to do with this discussion though.

I gotta agree with High FCS's last statement. And with that, gotta get back to the grind!
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:15pm PT


Al-Biruni

Abū al-Rayhān Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Bīrūnī (4/5 September 973 – 13 December 1048), known as Al-Biruni in English, was a Persian Muslim scholar and polymath from the Khwarezm region.

Al-Biruni is regarded as one of the greatest scholars of the medieval Islamic era and was well versed in physics, mathematics, astronomy, and natural sciences, and also distinguished himself as a historian, chronologist and linguist. He was conversant in Khwarezmian, Persian, Arabic, Sanskrit, and also knew Greek, Hebrew and Syriac. He spent a large part of his life in Ghazni in modern-day Afghanistan, capital of the Ghaznavid dynasty which was based in what is now central-eastern Afghanistan. In 1017 he traveled to the Indian subcontinent and became the most important interpreter of Indian science to the Islamic world. He is given the titles the "founder of Indology". He was an impartial writer on custom and creeds of various nations, and was given the title al-Ustadh ("The Master") for his remarkable description of early 11th-century India. He also made contributions to Earth sciences, and is regarded as the "father of geodesy" for his important contributions to that field, along with his significant contributions to geography.

Bīrūnī’s fame as an Indologist rests primarily on two texts.[31] Al-Biruni wrote an encyclopedic work on India called “Tarikh Al-Hind” (History of India) in which he explored nearly every aspect of Indian life, including religion, history, geography, geology, science, and mathematics. He explores religion within a rich cultural context. He expresses his objective with simple eloquence: I shall not produce the arguments of our antagonists in order to refute such of them, as I believe to be in the wrong. My book is nothing but a simple historic record of facts. I shall place before the reader the theories of the Hindus exactly as they are, and I shall mention in connection with them similar theories of the Greeks in order to show the relationship existing between them.(1910, Vol. 1, p. 7;1958, p. 5)

An example of Al-Biruni’s analysis is his summary of why many Hindus hate Muslims. He explains that Hinduism and Islam are totally different from each other. Moreover, Hindus in 11th century India had suffered through waves of destructive attacks on many of its cities, and Islamic armies had taken numerous Hindu slaves to Persia which, claimed Al-Biruni, contributed to Hindus becoming suspicious of all foreigners, not just Muslims. Hindus considered Muslims violent and impure, and did not want to share anything with him. Over time, Al-Biruni won the welcome of Hindu scholars. Al-Biruni collected books and studied with these Hindu scholars to become fluent in Sanskrit, discover and translate into Arabic the mathematics, science, medicine, astronomy and other fields of arts as practiced in 11th century India. He was inspired by the arguments offered by Indian scholars who believed earth must be ellipsoid shape, with yet to be discovered continent at earth's south pole, and earth's rotation around the sun is the only way to fully explain the difference in daylight hours by latitude, seasons and earth's relative positions with moon and stars.[citation needed] Al-Biruni was also critical of Indian scribes who he believed carelessly corrupted Indian documents while making copies of older documents. Al-Biruni's translations as well as his own original contributions reached Europe in 12th and 13th century, where they were actively sought.

While others were killing each other over religious differences, Al-Biruni had a remarkable ability to engage Hindus in peaceful dialogue. Mohammad Yasin puts this dramatically when he says, “The Indica is like a magic island of quiet, impartial research in the midst of a world of clashing swords, burning towns, and burned temples.” (Indica is another name for Al-Biruni’s history of India).
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
Benazir Bhutto
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
Benazir Bhutto

There you go.

(Yet again, as with Malala, it is steeped in irony.)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
If your intent is to illustrate Muslims are not all bad, maybe you could provide some noteworthy Muslims, still living.

You're kidding right? You can't think of any? Do you think Muhammad Ali is a noteworthy Muslim?

Fareed Zakaria.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
LOL!

He is no more Muslim than Bill Clinton is Christian.

FAIL!
dirtbag

climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
Is that Sean Connery on page 1? I thought he died.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:36pm PT

A Cultural Muslim
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2015 - 12:44pm PT
HFCS, you don't seem to have anything better to do than tear down what others are doing.

That's sad.

How about finding a thread where you can add something positive?



Muhammed Fethullah Gülen (born 27 April 1941) is a Turkish preacher, former imam, writer, and Islamic opinion leader. He is the founder of the Gülen movement (sometimes known as Hizmet). He currently lives in a self-imposed exile in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, United States.

Gülen teaches an Anatolian (Hanafi) version of Islam, deriving from Sunni Muslim scholar Said Nursî's teachings. Gülen has stated that he believes in science, interfaith dialogue among the People of the Book, and multi-party democracy. He has initiated such dialogue with the Vatican and some Jewish organizations.

Gülen is actively involved in the societal debate concerning the future of the Turkish state, and Islam in the modern world. He has been described in the English-language media as an imam "who promotes a tolerant Islam which emphasises altruism, hard work and education" and as "one of the world's most important Muslim figures." In the Turkish context, Gülen appears as a religious conservative.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
A fraction of a percent of the human population we jews have contributed far more to human civilization in proportion to our number than any other group, but I hold no hate for Muslims.

Indeed, a thousand years ago when London was a hovel the arabs had libraries and street lights and the best mathematicians and doctors in the world.

We just have to learn to appreciate people unlike ourselves.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
HFCS, you don't seem to have anything better to do than tear down what others are doing.

I believe early on you called me BITCH. Maybe I have that wrong?

For my part I'm against the antiquated beliefs of Abrahamic religion standing in the way of civilization and its expression (incl science education) in the 21st century. And not just in America or the Bible Belt but around the world. In Malala's world too.

Now because you and your ilk apparently can't make that connection - particularly the link between belief and conduct - it is your problem.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
You're kidding right?

You mean issue is not about the modern Muslim world?

I was making a point about effectiveness.

What might sway the hysterical masses showing them how the overwhelming majority of Muslims are good, decent people. Historical figures from 70 or 1000 years ago don't mean squat. Not about the current "Muslim hate and fear factor". What matters is today's Muslims.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
I believe early on you called me BITCH. Maybe I have that wrong?


That's because LOL! was your first response to the whole O.P. of this thread.
Maybe I have that wrong?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
Go your way, Survival.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jan 7, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
You guys are cruel, egging HFCS on like that.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
I love whipped hfcs!
Heading to a theater right now!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 7, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
So the Muslims had it goin' on pretty good until 1492. It's been pretty
much downhill since then by any metric. How many Nobel Prize winners have
they had? How many world chess champions have they had? How many Olympic
medals have they had, other than Moroccan distance runners? OK, so an
Egyptian competed in the Olympic downhill about 15 years ago but they changed
the rules so that sort of nonsense wouldn't occur again. But I will give them this:
a dood from Qatar is doing well in this year's Dakar Rally. Too bad it doesn't go
anywhere near Dakar any longer.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Jan 7, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
Khaled Abou El Fadl is a professor of Law, Islamic Law, and Islam at the UCLA Law School.

https://law.ucla.edu/faculty/faculty-profiles/khaled-m-abou-el-fadl/

Based on his understanding of Islam and Islamic law as well as of other traditions, he has devoted his life to speaking out for human rights and against extremism, especially Islamic extremism. He challenges extreme forms of Islam among the students and in the wider world.

If there is a reformation in Islam, I think it will come from people like Professor Abou el Fadl.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Jan 7, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
So, I guess we would characterize Sir Isaac Newton as a "Great Christian". The title of this thread is wrong-headed, in my opinion. Religious affiliation is the wrong category to apply to people if you want to compare their “greatness”. People are great because human beings can be great.

Of COURSE there are great Muslims. As HFCS inferred, the proper way to look at it is that they are/were great Persians or Arabs, or better, human beings. The fact that you stand a 96-99 percent chance of being Muslim if you were born in a Muslim country and probably a less than one percent chance of being Muslim if you were born in a non-Muslim country from non-Muslim parents, pretty much underscores the point.

To me, it’s obvious. The problem is with Islam, itself. Any religion that makes such a fuss over the ridicule of their god and prophet is, well, ridiculous. I mean, come on.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
Q

Jan 7, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
So the Muslims had it goin' on pretty good until 1492.


At which time Brits and Germans were still rooting for grubs.

It's been pretty much downhill since then by any metric. How many Nobel Prize winners have they had?

14.

Pretty amazing considering the Nobel committee has a record of racism. mahatma Ghandi never won a Nobel prize though he was nominated five times. Henry Kissinger is a Laureate.
How many world chess champions have they had?
Now you are showing your ignorance. Chess was invented in India, but refined in the middle East and introduced into the West through Spain during the Muslim conquest ( they also broughtt Algebra) the Spanish and Portuguese words are versions of Ajedrez , from the word the Yemeni conquerors took from the Hindu Chatrang.

and through viking warriors in servitude to the Muslim rulers of Constantinople/Istambul.. Harald Hardrada, who was a Varangian guard to the sultan for over 30 years before becoming king of Norway and dying at Stamford Bridge in 1066 had a part in introducing the game to Scandanavia. Magnus Carlsen can thank the sultan for having Harald as a palace guard.

. The word Checkmate comes from the Persian Shah Mat ( death to the king.)



You might want to look up the Name Shahan Khan. There is a string of Muslim chess Champions dating back to 847, when again, Europeans had a bug diet.


And the person who has held the Championship the most since 2000 is Hindu.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viswanathan_Anand


How many Olympic medals have they had, other than Moroccan distance runners?
How many white Europeans have won distance medals in the last 50 years? How many Spinters not decended from two tribes in Africa?

I watched the ncaa cross country championship this year. The first American/european decended runner came in 15th place.

We can adress that again when camel driving becomes an Olympic sport.

OK, so an
Egyptian competed in the Olympic downhill about 15 years ago but they changed
the rules so that sort of nonsense wouldn't occur again.

How very noble of the rules makers. what agenda did they have? I'm sure Jesse Owens would have had his medals taken away if the Host Nation had its way. They did a good job with Jim Thorpe.




[
But I will give them this:
a dood from Qatar is doing well in this year's Dakar Rally. Too bad it doesn't go
anywhere near Dakar any longer.

Yeah, the Queens cup hasn't gone around the Isle of Wright in a while. It's called the Americas Cup now.

Gotta go watch the replay of the last Emirates Cup.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:10pm PT
Yusuf Islam
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
You can't possibly be serious.

(Neil degrasse Tyson speaks to this very thing. Arabs, yes, had a role in the continuity, but one that's been wildly mythologized since, notwithstanding the arabic inventions, languaging, etc..)

Dead serious, any assertion to the contrary is some serious Eurocentric revisionism.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
Any Muslim climbers?

I didn't think so.

Subspecies fer sur!

Ever heard of a place called the Karakoram?
Darwin

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: Qawwali singer who changed modern "world music", although lots of other people did, too. I'm way out of my depth here, but Qawwali is actually a Sufi tradition, a mystic branch of Isalm(?). Anyway, check out Nusrat!

Umm Kulthum!!!!



the thread title makes sense to me. Sure it's a bit awkward singling out a religion, but pretty good for two words. Thanks again Survival! HFCS, not that you care what I think, but you're coming across as a bit negative.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:38pm PT
I've read nothing indicating that Vader was not a Muslim.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 7, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
Need a new thread "great dead cartoonists."

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 7, 2015 - 07:09pm PT


Breaking news - Einstein was a Shiite.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T2Dm0m-ON2Y/Us-IqKU8NvI/AAAAAAAAAuo/VJ8p_Ev_jik/s1600/46212_371531932937801_74633052_n.jpg
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
Orange Juice was introduced to Northern Europe when Napoleon invaded Egypt.

I guess they get credit for the Juicer.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
Well, Darwin, I'd say it was a proportional response... the news today was "a bit negative".

(I suppose I could've hunkered down instead, maybe buried my head in the backyard for the day? hakuna matata like. Maybe next time around I'll go that route, zig instead of zag.)

Sigh.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 7, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
HFCS

STOP POINTING OUT THINGS

John M

climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
To me, it’s obvious. The problem is with Islam, itself. Any religion that makes such a fuss over the ridicule of their god and prophet is, well, ridiculous. I mean, come on.

No.. not with islam itself, but with those who would radicalize it. Thats why this thread was started, because every time some radical sect of some so called muslim group does an act of terrorism, people start denouncing the religion as a whole.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 08:27pm PT

Sigh.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 7, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
Jeez.. you guys are not even trying to find great muslims.. it is not hard.

Fethullah Gulen
http://en.fgulen.com/

http://en.fgulen.com/recent-articles/4109-love-for-truth
Truth means the essence and reality of a thing. It is to know clearly what a thing is, what it means, and what it signifies beyond its appearance and cognition. What is the essence and reality of the human being, the universe, and all things? What do they mean, both as individuals and as a whole? What is beyond this entire existence—from atoms to nebulas, from the smallest particles of a human being to his material and spiritual depths—and their orderliness, harmony, beauty, and wisdom? Since these facts cannot be attributed to coincidences, there must certainly be a truth upon which everything—from particles to planets— is based on. Indeed there is such a truth which is the ultimate basis of everything, and every individual has a duty to know this truth with their own particular qualities. To pursue such a duty with deep longing and interest is called “the love for truth.”


Muhhamad Yunis Nobel peace prize
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/18/businesspro-books-yunus-dc-idUSN1552916120080118

Orhan Pamuk, 2006 Nobel Prize for literature
http://www.orhanpamuk.net/

Ahmed Zewail 1999 Nobel Chemistry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zewail
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 7, 2015 - 09:32pm PT
Sadam Hussein.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:43pm PT

Jan 7, 2015 - 09:32pm PT
Sadam Hussein.

Timothy McVeigh.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 7, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
He was muslim?
jonnyrig

climber
Jan 7, 2015 - 11:30pm PT
Great people come from all kinds of different religious and socioeconomic backgrounds. As the OP pointed out, his thread is a rebuttal to the current Muslim fear. Meh. Coulda been Christians. Or any other radically minded group with a following. Maybe someday we'll all fear the atheists.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 8, 2015 - 05:09am PT
we jews have contributed far more to human civilization in proportion to our number than any other group


I once read this, probably by a Jewish comedian:
A short history of the Jews:
They tried to kill us, we won, let's eat.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2015 - 10:00am PT
I like the sudden shift to this whole thing being about HFCS and his glaring inability to say something nice

My go-to Muslim dude would have to be Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Balkhi-Rumi , 'Rumi" for short, hands down. Anyone who could give rise to whirling dervishes has my vote for the Muslim hall of fame. But of course Rumi lived long ago.
Now if we can only get these psychopathic jihadists to spend all their time spinning around in circles all day then we've got something.

Upthread the OP announced that his/her purpose for starting this thread was because it was felt that Muslims,in general, were under assault in light of recent events. In other words, not because of some sudden outpouring of a need to celebrate notable Muslims, per se.Apparently,a Muslims hall of fame is somewhat of a foil, the real purpose being a sort of political damage control, as well as a desire to shift the focus away from recent murders by jihadist Muslims and onto those that may be carrying around politically incorrect feelings and thoughts towards Muslims.

It is typical of baby boomer liberals in particular to painstakingly establish victim status for any selected aggrieved group-- as a means of insuring that we all nurture nothing but politically correct warm and fuzzys towards them, and thereby forego holding them responsible for anything.

But of course there is something more important at stake here and that is the liberal reaction to Jihadism since 9/11. At the same time that the West was engaging militant Islam in far-flung combat, liberals in the West were trying their own approach, and not just liberals-- apparently anyone with a functioning guilt complex was 'down for the struggle'. Great pains were mustered to insure that Muslims were not slandered or criticized openly.A sort of ipso facto victim status was conferred as Muslims were made eligible for aggrieved minority honors. A precipitous increase in Muslim immigration was allowed, especially in Europe. Every attempt was made to plug Islamic communities and enclaves into the western political structure and landscape.
Countless other examples of this deliberately directed 'solution'by liberals to the problem of Islam versus the West have taken place over the years.

This type of deranged incompetent thinking is an abject and dangerous failure.It has only succeeded in putting innocent citizens in Western countries at risk for their lives. Some have paid with their lives.Bloodthirsty Jihadists are not interested in playing nicey nicey with western touchy-feelys. Like the Marathon Bombers they weren't even happy to be on 4 different types of state and Federal welfare.
Whenever a new terrorist event like the recent Paris murders occur ,the Left snaps into high gear in order to continue to protect this failed approach.
The hideous actions of these killers are not the object of focus for them-- apparently the real enemy are those of you who just might be carrying around politically incorrect thoughts;as well as those of you continually in dire need of being reminded that, yes, their are Great Muslims out there. (We even have a thread for them now)


AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Jan 8, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
To me, it’s obvious. The problem is with Islam, itself. Any religion that makes such a fuss over the ridicule of their god and prophet is, well, ridiculous. I mean, come on.

No.. not with islam itself, but with those who would radicalize it. Thats why this thread was started, because every time some radical sect of some so called muslim group does an act of terrorism, people start denouncing the religion as a whole.

Islam has problems, to deny this is to deny the obvious. I am not sure what defines a Muslim, but this whole thread starts off with a picture of a woman who would probably be stoned to death under some interpretation of Islam for not wearing a burqa.

Condolences to all those you have died during this useless heinous act.
If anything this just gives me one more reason to support freedom of the press.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 17, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
Sadam Hussein."????
He was a nationalist and atheistic socialist. The absence of his fist has a lot to do with the rise of islamists in their various forms.

This wiki article gives a somewhat balanced view. His educating and uplifting of women stands out in particular as rather un Islamic to my eyes. Maybe your post should be on the thread 'Arabs who I hate'.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 17, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 17, 2015 - 11:02pm PT

Not so many muslim stand up comics
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 18, 2015 - 01:49am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 18, 2015 - 04:53am PT
Great thread concept Survival.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 18, 2015 - 04:59am PT
Groucho was Jewish
couchmaster

climber
May 18, 2015 - 09:22am PT

In reference to the great muslim (topic is "Great Muslims after all and the man has been named as a great one by Anita upthread) Yousef Islams earlier works. May I suggest he rename the great song: "Peace Train" to be "Hate Train". Or "Hate Trane" as Weld it would say.

In this new release updated version of the "Hate Trane" video, a few authors of fictional works are successfully brutally, bloodily and publicly murdered: beheaded in front of a crowd lets say, and maybe they also hang a bunch of homosexuals from a crane as it rolls down some San Francisco street. Then to finish the music video, as singing is against Sahria law, Yousef himself is Fatwawed (like how I made that word a verb?) and beheaded as a finale. Hey man, it's religious, ya can't be hating on the haters or be intolerant towards intolerance. And that's the $64,000 question and the magic woid all rolled into one - right?



ref reading for your pleasure:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/questions-remain-over-cat-stevens-connections-to-jihad-terror

http://www.shariahfinancewatch.org/blog/category/fatwa/

As an aside, the great comedian Dennis Miller once said that the issue was if you break down Salomon Rushdie's name, you get RUSH (to) DIE. Therein lies that problem with that issue. So I suppose it's not a problem with Islamic thought per se.


OK, and now - back to our discourse: "Grate muslums". Here's one: Mohammed Ali. Boxer.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 18, 2015 - 09:49am PT


Najeeb Elias Halaby, Jr. (Arabic: نجيب إلياس حلبي‎; November 19, 1915[1] - July 2, 2003) was a United States businessman, government official, celebrated aviator, and the father of Queen Noor of Jordan.

Halaby was born in Dallas, Texas.[1] His father was Najeeb Elias Halaby, Sr. (March 17, 1878/1880 - December 16, 1928), a Syrian Christian,[2] who immigrated to the United States from Syria in 1891.[2] Halaby's paternal grandfather was Elias Halaby, provincial treasurer or magistrate in Ottoman Syria,[2] who also came to the U.S. in 1891. Halaby's father worked as an importer and, later, as an oil broker. In the mid-1920s, Halaby's father opened Halaby Galleries, a rug boutique and interior-decorating shop, at Neiman Marcus in Dallas, and ran it with his wife, the former Laura Wilkins (April 23, 1889 - April 1987). He died shortly afterward, and his estate was unable to continue the new enterprise. Following his father's death, his mother married Urban B. Koen, but they ultimately divorced. Halaby's maternal grandfather was John Thomas Wilkins, who served in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry during the Civil War.

CareerEdit

He was a graduate of The Leelanau School, a boarding school in Glen Arbor Township Leelanau County, Michigan, and is enshrined in that school's Hall of Fame. An alumnus of Stanford University (1937) and Yale Law School (1940), he served as a U.S. Navy test pilot in World War II. On May 1, 1945 Halaby made history by making the first transcontinental jet flight in US history. Halaby took off from Muroc AFB, California and landed in Patuxent, Maryland in 5 hours and 40 minutes.[3]

After the war he served as the U.S. State Department's civil aviation advisor to King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia, helping the king develop Saudi Arabian Airlines. Next he worked as an aide to Secretary of Defense James Forrestal in the late 1940s, then helped Paul Nitze write NSC 68.

He joined Laurance Rockefeller's family office in 1953 reviewing investments in civil aviation.

From 1961 to 1965, he served as the second Administrator of the Federal Aviation Agency, appointed by President John F. Kennedy. Halaby was a proponent for the creation of the U.S. Department of Transportation, which occurred during his time in the Lyndon B. Johnson administration. From 1969 to 1972, he served as CEO, and chairman after 1970, of Pan Am. As Pan Am chairman, he was present at the christening of the first Boeing 747 aircraft.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 18, 2015 - 09:49am PT
Queen Noor of Jordan (Arabic: جلالة الملكة نور‎; born Lisa Najeeb Halaby on 23 August 1951) is the widow of King Hussein. She was his fourth spouse and queen consort between their marriage in 1978 and his death in 1999. She is also known as Noor Al-Hussein.

A United States citizen by birth and of Syrian,[1] English and Swedish descent, she renounced her American citizenship in favor of Jordanian citizenship at the time of her marriage. As of 2011, she is president of the United World Colleges movement and an advocate of the anti-nuclear weapons proliferation campaign Global Zero. In 2015, Queen Noor received the Woodrow Wilson Award for her public
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 18, 2015 - 09:55am PT
The Muslims kept the world's knowledge of science, mathematics, astronomy and even medicine alive during the Dark Ages while Europeans groveled in the misery, disease, warfare and superstition of the time.
Yes, the Muslims were also engaged in warfare and conquest. A lot of it defending themselves from the Crusaders trying to liberate the "Holy Land". Which was/is equally holy to Muslims, Christians and Jews.
There are wicked Muslims, sure. And wicked Christians and Jews.
For a variety of pathological reasons a large number of bigoted American "Christians" have tarred all Muslims with the same brush. Cynically speaking, it's a great way to get more people into church and to feed the church coffers out of fear. Faux News eats it up and spews it out undigested.

Don't forget that the Catholic Church in Germany did almost nothing to oppose Hitler. The Mormons murdered the Fancher Party and blamed it on Indians. Cortez and the Spanish Conquistadors enslaved tens of thousands of American Natives and killed many who wouldn't convert to Catholicism. The US attempted to corral or exterminate all of the "savage" Indians. The Catholic Church had the Inquisition. Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. And this doesn't include the tens of thousands of incidents and millions killed that were never recorded. We slaughtered a couple of hundred thousand Japanese in two days at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The oldest trick in the book for a demagogue is to demonize "the others". I could name a half dozen living Christian Televangelists. And the current Israeli PM's latest election campaign.
Senator Joe McCarthy. The list is endless.
Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone
There is plenty of blood on all our hands.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 18, 2015 - 09:59am PT
So I'll add a Benevolent and Peaceful Muslim to the list.
The Agha Khan IV.

[quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan_IV[/quote]
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 18, 2015 - 10:04am PT
Nice Hightraverse.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 18, 2015 - 10:09am PT

Just as you can't judge every muslim from the actions done by a few muslims, you can't judge every American from the bombs, poison and napalm dropped in Vietnam...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 18, 2015 - 10:14am PT
Criticism was never about Muslims in the first place,
at least not among the informed; rather, it was about the
bad ideas of Islam, esp Islamism.

For more, I would suggest the works of Maajid Nawaz, Irshad Manji,
and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
couchmaster

climber
May 19, 2015 - 05:47am PT
They are hiring swordsmen in Saudi Arabia to hack off heads, arms and feet as needed. No experience needed they say. I'm sure one of them could rise to greatness if they keep a sharp blade and get enough practice. I remember not long ago in Iran, and American woman was wearing a skirt. As only prostitutes publicly wear skirts in Iran, she was arrested, charged with prostitution (but remember, she was not a prostitute, she was ONLY wearing a skirt) and ordered to be whipped 20 times in the public square. Wonder who does that job?

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-advertises-swordsmen-execution-rate-soars-103337479.html

"Riyadh (AFP) - Saudi Arabia advertised vacancies for eight executioners Tuesday after beheading nearly as many people since the start of the year as it did in the whole of 2014. The civil service ministry said that no qualifications were necessary and that applicants would be exempted from the usual entrance exams. It said that as well as beheadings, the successful candidates would be expected to carry out amputations ordered by the courts under the kingdom's strict version of Islamic sharia law."
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2015 - 07:59am PT
There is plenty of blood on all our hands.


HT for the win.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 19, 2015 - 08:13am PT
The Muslims kept the world's knowledge of science, mathematics, astronomy and even medicine alive during the Dark Ages while Europeans groveled in the misery, disease, warfare and superstition of the time.

OK, so they did some algebra and stuff - a lot of good it did 'em. I've a
fiver that they didn't get shorted on their fair share of misery, disease,
and warfare. In fact, I seem to recall from a book or two that they
dished out at least their share of warfare. As for superstition a djinn
once told me... oh, never mind.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 19, 2015 - 08:35am PT
the greatest NBA scorer of all time, Kareem.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2015 - 10:45am PT
Ali was mentioned on the first page.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 20, 2015 - 11:28pm PT
Malcolm X:

He has been called one of the greatest and most influential African Americans in history.

In February 1965 he was assassinated by three Nation of Islam members. The Autobiography of Malcolm X, published shortly after his death, is considered one of the most influential nonfiction books of the 20th century.
Avery

climber
NZ
May 20, 2015 - 11:37pm PT
Well done, Survival: A timely and much appreciated thread.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 20, 2015 - 11:55pm PT
Yeah I'm pretty partial to Rumi too.

“Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.”
― Rumi

“When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy.”
― Rumi

“Why struggle to open a door between us when the whole wall is an illusion?”
― Rumi

And finally;

“Without demolishing religious schools (madrassahs) and minarets and without abandoning the beliefs and ideas of the medieval age, restriction in thoughts and pains in conscience will not end. Without understanding that unbelief is a kind of religion, and that conservative religious belief a kind of disbelief, and without showing tolerance to opposite ideas, one cannot succeed. Those who look for the truth will accomplish the mission.
― Rumi
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 21, 2015 - 12:45am PT
I'm a little suspicious of that last Rumi quote.... sounds rather modern, especially considering that Rumi lived in the 13th century and the term 'medieval' wasn't used until at least the 15th century.

I found this article on the distortion of Rumi's thought found in many modern translations quite interesting...

http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/corrections_popular.html

Great soul and great Muslim none the less

Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 21, 2015 - 01:49am PT
Yeah your right Rockerman. I still like it though.

Coleman Barks has done (IMHO) a fine job of "translating' much of Rumi's work.
And I dig what he's done.

http://www.colemanbarks.com/

Of course anything from the 1200's is somewhat suspect anyway:-)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2015 - 09:13am PT
So it's a shame Rumi's not around today, 2015, to encourage an Islamic reformation?


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418704/fall-palmyra-strategic-historical-and-human-loss-tom-rogan

Hey I believe in Higher Powers, Mother Nature and Grandma Nature, Whom I sometimes call Gods.

Just yesterday: "Thank the Gods for cheese and brats!"

Rumi...

I died as a mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was Man.
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
With angels bless'd; but even from angelhood
I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
Proclaims in organ tones,
To Him we shall return.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 8, 2017 - 09:28am PT
LA Times has a story about Mohamed Bzeek, a "devout Libyan-born Muslim", living in LA County, who, since 1989,
has cared for 10 terminally ill foster children.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-foster-father-sick-children-2017-story.html

Now, Bzeek spends long days and sleepless nights caring for a bedridden 6-year-old foster girl with
a rare brain defect. She’s blind and deaf. She has daily seizures. Her arms and legs are paralyzed.

“I know she can’t hear, can’t see, but I always talk to her,” he said. “I’m always holding her,
playing with her, touching her. … She has feelings. She has a soul. She’s a human being.”

Bzeek is the only foster parent in the county known to take in terminally ill children....

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 8, 2017 - 09:49am PT
Nice find... better than the usual "heroes" we hear about good at sports with one ball, or plastic people in the moo-vees.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 8, 2017 - 10:40am PT
Nice find, indeed.

Mohamed Bzeek - a great humanitarian
couchmaster

climber
Feb 8, 2017 - 03:49pm PT


Yo: in an attempt to help you all compile this list of great muslims, lets ask Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris to help yall answer this one. What say?


couchmaster

climber
Feb 8, 2017 - 03:58pm PT
OK then, no one? OK, maybe she can't help our quest. Here's one: Nonie Darwish

Opps, nevermind, she converted to Christianity and has a death sentence on her because of it.

Bad idea. ...although it's true that she has more courage than most of the douchbags posting on Supertopo. Shitloads more. Folks like you. And most assuredly much more than me of course. Shitloads. But she'll be executed for her conversion. Righteously so in fact. That's a no-no. All great muslims agree.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 8, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
How about writer Forag Foda?

Opps, sorry, assassinated because he wrote some incorrect religious thought that defended secularism and Western values. But the Fatwa that was issued was issued by one of the most famous and greatest of the Muslim scholars - Sheikh Gad al-Haq Ali Gad al-Haq, who at the time was the Grand Imam of al-Azhar, Egypt’s highest authority in Sunni Islamic thought and Islamic jurisprudence, so there is that.

Clash. Can we nominate him? He was one of the greatest Muslims they say.

Clash.


Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.Clash.

Sheikh Gad al hack hack -great Muslim.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 8, 2017 - 04:05pm PT


Hopefully that will help build the list up, seemed to have stalled out. Oh, did the thing with the Muslim writer Salmon Rushdie make this list of "great Muslims" ? He's got a $4 million bounty on his head for writing incorrect thoughts and it's a great thing that no Muslims havebeen able to kill him yet, but the Japanese translator of “The Satanic Verses” got whacked, so it wasn't a total miss. That Fatwa was slapped on by one of the most famous Muslims of our generation, Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Very much a great Muslim in the eyes of ALL Shia's, perhaps the greatest after Mohamed and Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib - Mohamed's cousin) - so add him to your list of Great Muslims. Khomeini that is, not the "apostate" writer Rushdie who wrote a fiction that was later characterized as disparaging to muslims and thus deserved to be killed in the eyes of ALL Shias.


No freedom of speech bullshit needed to be a "Great Muslim" is there? Feel free to kill any writer who disagrees with you, right? So add Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini to the list of GREAT Muslims. As all Shia Muslims love him so much, towards the top of the list please.

As a side note, I've met a lot of Muslims and they generally tend to be fine folks. No joke. Like us, they have weak spots. Ours are in significantly different places of course. For example, American men think it's OK for women to drive a car whereas.........HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Nevermind. Oh, as a side note, I tried to actually read Rushdies "Satanic Verses" once, couldn't either finish it or figure out- it was damned painful to me and I never sussed out what all the hububub was about. But if a "Great" Muslim like the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini was able to finish it (Jesus Christ how could anyone?) AND he thought that it was offensive, then whack away GREAT Muslim. Dude probably had it coming don't ya'll think?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 8, 2017 - 05:30pm PT
Auda abu Tayi
Auda abu Tayi is considered a hero of the Arab revolt. For while Prince Feisal was the prophet of Islam, Auda was the warrior. T.E. Lawrence romanticized him as someone who epitomized everything noble, powerful and proud about the Bedouin, "the greatest fighting man in northern Arabia", with an impressive lineage of many generations of great desert Howeitat warriors of the Arabian peninsula. Lawrence wrote that

“He saw life as a saga, all the events in it were significant: all personages in contact with him heroic, his mind was stored with poems of old raids and epic tales of fights.”

As was customary in the desert Auda was known for his hospitality and generosity which "kept him always poor, despite the profits of a hundred raids". He claimed he had been married 28 times and wounded more than a dozen times in action. Legend had it that he had killed 75 Arabs by his own hand; he didn't even bother to keep count of the Turks. In battle Auda became a wild beast assuaged only after he had killed. He was hot-headed but always kept a smile on his face. Despite his fierce reputation he was described as modest, direct, honest, kind-hearted and warmly-loved.

Auda lived in the desert near the Hejaz railway. He preferred the isolation which became necessary after he killed one too many debt collectors from Constantinople and the Turks put a price on his head. The desert landscapes were the exact areas Faisal and Lawrence needed to operate in to avoid close attention from the Turks. Lawrence wrote:

“Only by means of Auda abu Tayi could we swing the tribes from Ma'an to Aqaba so violently in our favour that they would help us take Aqaba and its hills from their Turkish garrisons.”
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