Discussion Topic |
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This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 619 of total 619 in this topic |
darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 1, 2015 - 08:55am PT
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Yeah buddy! Have you hoped on California night and driving south? Lets hit those up next week!
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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I sure miss that place.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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On the way right now...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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For realz Josh?
Crap. Made new plans after text before.
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jonnywoodward
climber
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There are innumerable problems I've hoped on over the years at woodson. On some of those bald eggs hope is all you've got.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Yup, just blew a tendon on the painted boulder.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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CN & DS are some of Woodson's lessons on pain control...at least for me they were. CN as well as on skin integrity, and DS on just plain difficulty!
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Get ready JW, cause I got a bald egg waiting for you (I know a bald egg when I see one.) Looking forward to seeing what we can do with it.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Did Hard as Nails on TR yesterday and glad to have the rope. Henny on site solo is just wild.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I can't get off the ground, but after that first move it isn't so bad. Sketchy as sh#t to solo though!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Ya'll are fluffers yo.
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hellcyon
climber
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Figured I'd add to the fluff...
To all the challenges you choose for inspiration in your lives, cheers! and Happy New Year!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Great stuff hellcyon! Are we worthy of some IDs? Haha. I recognize shot the sheriff, but what's the skinny on some of the rest?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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This is in the Sherwood Forest area...has it been done?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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You beat me to it...just got off that page...;-)
V4, aka 5.11+ Woodson standards would kick my butt!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Right on. Spiewak looking sharp there mr. Hubbard.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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That second to the last Hubbard shot looking pretty committing; sic shot! Sounds like its going to be busy up there on Sunday.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2015 - 09:31am PT
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That's the classic "Big Grunt" (5.9). Behind it, in the second photo, you can see "Poison Oak Crack" (5.7).
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jonnywoodward
climber
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Henny solo impressive because we know he didn't once use the crack.
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bajaandy
climber
Escondido, CA
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Way to get the ball rolling Magnus. Some sweet shots in this thread so far.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Was there last Tuesday for the first time. Didn't really climb much as it was cold as hell but got to explore around and jump on a few things. Not really a destination spot, but would be fun for a quickie if you live in the area.
On the other hand we spent a few days over at El Cajon and Corte Madera. Definitely be going back to those sweet little uninhabited crags.
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jonnywoodward
climber
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OK gurus and absentee lurking decrepits (making sure bvb doesn't feel excluded), these two boulders are right off the lower fire road. The first has great slab problems r of center (not too bad) and l of center (pretty hard).
The second has an obvious line through the r side of the small overhang and looks like something for climbers youthful and strong. Anyone got names/info about these?
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Friend
climber
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Only 3 days in and this thread is cooking right along.
Hellcyon, where is Oh So Splitter? And is/was the Hardest Unclimbed Hand Crack really unclimbed? Johann showed it to me today. Quality tight hands problem... no one's done this before?? Anyone got info?
CH, killer shots as well. Where's that thin finger crack? Looks excellent.
Jonny Woodward, post more sir!
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jonny Woodward, post more sir! Sir??? Don't swell his head, it's already big enough...
On the other hand, he'll be showing up shortly, post more pictures to get his buzz stoked in that frigid SLC weather till he can migrate out this way.
Hey, I did my best to avoid the crack moves at the top of Hard As Nails, even tried to mantle straight out at the top but got too gripped, finally gave up and resigned myself to the crack moves. haha.
Tomorrow sounds like it might be promising, looking forward to seeing what's happening on the hill.
Pictures expected from all parties involved.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Those two off the lower fire road....I have no clue.
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Here are some topos I'm working on for the east face of Woodson. Photo quality isn't the greatest... Heading out there today and will be in this area with Hellcyon.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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I want to marry this thread. Heading there now!
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Friend
climber
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Hubbard for the win! Man, your maps have helped me find all kinds of cool stuff over the years. Right on.
I'm going to head over this afternoon too. Hope to see you all.
"The hardest unclimbed hand crack on the hill" AKA 5.11- tight hands. Where is this on that topo?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Nice. Yes, Hubbard! Thank YOU!!
Asked my kid to take a complementary shot of me on practice boulder, and this is what I get.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I think we have some issues to work out.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Hey Chris, I don't see Vice Principal's Office on this...further down the north side? Also, there is/was a 3-4 bolt, 11c face down the east face from PHD...did you find that?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Btw, I had NO IDEA how busy you all were on the hill, wow, just WOW!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Woodson happens. Ran into some chaps with a penchant for the thin. Such a great day out.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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^^^^^ Jeeze, I know. Almost makes it look like nothing is left to be discovered.
It was nothing too exciting for us Sunday. Warming Patty up on the slab. I've always liked practice boulder slab; waaaaaay back when, and now that I'm back. Great place to warm up the body and no effort to get to.
Thanks to some generous advise, I finally found my finger stacks.
Getting Patty (and myself) ready for IC in a few months.
Ran into some other people up there.
Anyone ever do the face of Milkbar? Seems like someone could do it, but for me, I got one move off the ground and could not make the next move. You can see that edge in the above pic. This next pic shows my start; left "edge" of the Milkbar face.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Before I forget - I think the amount of time and love required, to explore and document a written guide for areas like Woodson, is lost on most of us.
Many thanks for pointing the way for the pedestrians, Hubbard/etc. we all owe you several beers.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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So much fun out there, always great to meet the members of ST! Skriedc, I think there are a couple face climbs on the Milkbar boulder, one being called "Ultraviolence"? Badass name. Gotta get back there and try 'em...anyone been on those?
Thanks to everyone for posting... let's keep the momentum going! MORE PICS!!! Hubbard just blew my mind right there.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Great start to the 2015 thread, thanks for all the pics and info. Erics face on east side of Robbins is a lot of fun I think.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Not much of an alpinist, mangus - he didn't even place that cam hanging from his harness.
#rookiemove
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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See you all Saturday? Claud/Mike? :)
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Friend
climber
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Had the pleasure of bouldering Saturday with Johannsolo and Sunday with Hellcyon, Hubbard, et al. Perfect conditions, great vibes, and infectious motivation both days. Thanks again bros.
Hellcyon’s teasing photo/caption upthread caught my eye, and Johnny knew where it was, so we went over there Saturday. Apparently this crack was discovered fairly recently, hidden in the vicious Woodson undergrowth. Its working name was Size Matters. If anyone has climbed it prior to Saturday, let me know, otherwise I’d like to call it Henry’s Hand Crack. Locker hand jams... if you’re a six year old.
Here he is on Milkbar. Love you buddy.
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Friend
climber
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Diego and I added a very nice low start to Hellcyon's Duck Squat problem. Quality.
Johann, out for an evening stroll
High Expectations, undercling to cool dyno
HAN solo
Baby Robbins beta
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jonnywoodward
climber
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Some problems from last winter.
Stuff Itt and Muff Itt are on the back side of the right most, smaller boulder. Pretty cool holds, barely more than darker colored blemishes, like pimping on melanomas. The skyline left of Muff Itt is Chickensh Itt, an unfinished problem. Better get back and hatch this one Henny.
If anyone knows if these are established problems with different names post here and I'll edit this. (Attn Ron Amick!)
JW (the real one)
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Friend,
Love the pics, especially with the boy. Too cool. Hope you get to name that crack after him. I wonder how long before he catches up to you on the desperate fingercrack circuit?
All that said - not cool with the Baby Robbin's beta...how'm I supposed to get the TRonsight now?
;)
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REIGN 1
Social climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Keep these pictures coming. Lots of new stuff since my days there.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Nice problem names JW (the real one), or at least all except the one.
As long as we can see a picture that includes the head size there won't be any problems determining if it's the real one or an imposter.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Nice Adam! Arrrrg, I still got to get that monkey off my back. Soon.
Friend. Love the shots of the son. Great shots everyone. Gong to have to up my game.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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A couple of pictures, slightly out of focus, but hey, it's all I got for now.
Does the TR/problem below look familiar?
Wish I had a decent picture of JW doing the Muff Itt FA, but no such luck. Looked good.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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And one more...
Oh wait...
I wonder how that could have possibly happened, imagine my embarrassment at having posted a picture from the wrong bouldering area! I wonder, maybe a Freudian slip since the topic is good problems? Hahaha.
OK, sorry, back to the Woodson programming.
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matisse
climber
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Anyone ever do the face of Milkbar? Seems like someone could do it, but for me, I got one move off the ground and could not make the next move. You can see that edge in the above pic. This next pic shows my start; left "edge" of the Milkbar face.
yep. if I understand you correctly up that rounded arete 10+ ish. if yer old and fat like me.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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I don't remember posting these before, sorry if they're repeats. I really like the perspective looking down this (any guesses?) problem.
In the second picture you can almost tell what Johann is thinking... "I can't believe his foot is still on there", or something along those lines. Judging by the relaxed spotters, I guess nobody is expecting JW to pop.
What a classic Woodson problem.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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So close but yet so far.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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whoever finds and does the 4K version?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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You guys used a rope on AIDS Victim?! WTF??!! Oh, the humanity...
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hellcyon
climber
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As everyone has said, great day out on the hill!
Keep the rain coming...
I even found a Friend...
And on a slightly less inspiring note, the 11 is almost painted out. And mad props to whoever took care of the 14 in the last few weeks, thank you! Just the 10 and 12 remaining. That shits gotta stop.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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hahaha bvb - touché
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Hellcyon. The 14 is only covered with rocks. It hasn't been removed. When the Poway class of 14 painted that, they left painting trash all over the place on Milkbar boulder. We picked up a bunch of it, but it appears there is more in the bushes we missed.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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What's the best method to get that paint off? Minimal damage to environment and all? I think I remember Higgins and gang doing some work at Santee, maybe Woodson as well. Some sort of gentle chemical, if there is such a thing.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Taginator is the usual remover as done at Santee. Takes a lot of work if you only have hand wire brushes and no pressurized rinse. If you can get a truck or some way to get lots of water it easiest to use a pressure washer after applying and brushing. Fine for granite, but a Pressure washer is likely too much for softer rock.
Painting over graffiti is much harder to remove than the graffiti.
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Friend
climber
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Henny, post those HDTV pics at a higher resolution. Having trouble making out any holds in your shots.
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Hey Jonny Woodward, The Arch Boulders and Muffit and Stuffit will be added to the topo.
Friend, nice meeting and climbing with you... and Henry's Crack it is.
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Friend
climber
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Now this is some pure jamming. Best finger crack problem in the world? Might be...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Is that Driving South?! New angle. Fresh.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Driving South bump. Very nice indeed.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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We will be out there on Saturday Greg, see ya there, you know what area you will be at?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Probably closer to the jaws area..
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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This thread is killing me, in the best way possible. We'll be there Sunday, probably walk up and over to Yoav area, then work our way back over and down the south side. Ogre Boulder/etc? Gonna wait for a little guidance on this east side goodness.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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The line was long last weekend, but I finally got to send my Proj on the chip.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Made it to Yoav Crack today thanks to AJ's aka Friend's aka Strong, Bald Dude's route post on Mountain Project. Managed a send in proper Woodson style; onsight free solo.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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C'mon everybody, let's see some more pictures...
Looking through what I have I obviously need to get up there and take some pictures. Meaning, I don't have much to help keep this going. Oh well.
What can you say other than classic.
Slab crimping. Funny how it's obvious where the crux might be in pictures like this. The chalk streak(s) departing the hold(s) pretty much gives it away.
One of the cool things about Woodson is the number of arête problems you can find. What other areas have at least an equal number of arêtes? I don't think I've been to any.
C'mon, I know people are holding more pictures than they know what to do with. Let's see some more. (Friend...)
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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DH, were you and false-JW able to hatch that egg next to baby Robbins last weekend?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Nope. Kinda brutal.
The real JW has almost arrived in So Cal. Perhaps we'll have to go back to it armed with some JW2 power (dang it, I can't figure out how to get the superscript to work when posting - I wanted JW squared.)
I figure with both the real and the false JW working together that problem doesn't have a chance but to go down.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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I was able to push out the first high step but got shut down on the second one. Probably spent four or five days on this one already but getting closer. I'll be down again this weekend working on more holdless thinness.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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holdless thinness
Haha. Oh boy. That sort of says it all. Good stuff, eh?
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
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I'll be out there Saturday, possibly Sunday as well if the rain doesn't show up! I'd like to check out the Ogre Boulder, face climbs on the Milkbar, and I also want to put some effort into KP's Demise and Head First in The Bushes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VWlbdQZzM
A little Potato Chip Rock action...I know Truthdweller has seen this!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Ah, Head First In The Bushes. Forgot about that one. So much goodenss.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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When you coming out Bob?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Man this $hit is thin.....
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Great job on Driving South. No f'n pads is BAD A$$. Keepin the Bachar spirit alive.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Shet!!!!!
So much goodness in this thread, hope to see some of you on the hill tomorrow!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
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Woooohoooo Friend!! Nice angles and everything....just well thought out and executed all round. Well done.
My crux was the 60 min wait.
There were different struggles happening all ove the hill. Eeyonkee makes it look soooo easy. But it's not.
Mikey likes it, and makes it look easy.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
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OK for reference, AND because I just plain like the shot.
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Friend
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
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Thanks guys. The big three Bachar finger cracks were major lifetime achievement goals for sure, and they do not disappoint. Each one is best in class. So psyched.
I am not a great writer, but I can recognize great writing. I always thought this post from BVB spoke volumes. +1, Holmes.
Oh, and while I'm at it, if anyone reading this thread hasn't read Bob's Premium Miniatures article, you best get on it. Read it, know it, live it. You are responsible for knowing this material. There will be a test and it will be closed-book.
The annual Woodson threads over the last 5 years or so have tons of info, beta, stories and inspiration.
Now I'm getting rolling. LearningTrad shared a sweet video of the Robbins Crack upthread (way to go dude), and Skcreidc reposted a classic shot of Eeyonkee on the Crucible. I remember eeyonkee's original thread both for those awesome pictures and for what might be my favorite piece of supertopo writing ever, the FA of Robbins Crack by brunosafari. Again, if you have not read this, why you being so mean to yourself? Drop everything and click this link.
And finally, @Jon Clark - I'm glad the beta was good, or good enough. Perhaps it's a stretch to post a link to your tale of sending the Bachar-Yerian on a Woodson thread, but it's a brilliant and incredibly motivational piece, and since you've done more hard Woodson soloing than most San Diego locals - to say nothing of Philly locals (?!) - I'm just gonna go with it. Hope to bump into you next time you're out this way.
Cheers all, see you on The Hill
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 10:54pm PT
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The big three Bachar finger cracks were major lifetime achievement goals for sure, and they do not disappoint. Each one is best in class. So psyched.
Hear My Train, Drivin' South, and???
Sorry missed everyone, had some health issues :(
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 11:21pm PT
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Friend,
Great post, and love the DS video. Blows me away watching guys climb those hard woodson finger cracks. We got on Yoav 1 today, several rungs lower but a blast in its own right. Hope to run into you soon, we caught up with JW and JW junior today as we left, apparently a couple new eggs got hatched. Some shots from today, yet another beautiful day surrounded by fantastic climbing.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 10, 2015 - 11:30pm PT
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What is with those huge crowds?! Some kind of event?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 11:38pm PT
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profile pics for tinder
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 10, 2015 - 11:49pm PT
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Jesus F*#king Christ. How long ago did this nonsense start?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 11, 2015 - 07:53am PT
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BVB, maybe 5 years ago when someone posted it as part of a "bucket list". And now the people who come up the paved road to the "chip" tend to be the least prepared, and literally leave sh!t and toilet paper strewn all over the place. Sometimes under what you want to climb. Rank, period
So you are THAT Jon Clark. I could not quite place the name, but I read your piece on the B-Y maybe 4-5 times. Super inspiring to say the least. One of the all time best on Supertopo.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:15am PT
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Friend,
It'd be great to run into you on the hill sometime. I've been visiting Woodson 5 or so times a year since 2008 and have only met a couple of climbers in that time. Unfortunately, I've never run into anyone from the site at Woodson. Maybe next time.
Edited to add: What is the third of the three Bachar finger cracks?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 11, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
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3rd bachar crack is likely Cal Night.
a few other good fingers:
Digits
Cat crack
Starving in stereo (below the crux)
Fall semester
spring break?
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Friend
climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
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Hey Greg and Jon
I've always understood Bachar's signature contributions to be the three splitter finger crack problems named for Hendrix jams:
California Night
Hear My Train A Comin
Driving South
I wasn't around when these problems were established, but I know a handful of contributors and lurkers were. These climbs are 40 years old and they're still milestones, to this day, for anyone who scrapes their way up them. I love reading firsthand comments and recollections from folks active during those years, and I'd love to read more (hint, hint)
Also, I definitely should have included Truthdweller's Cali Night and Hear My Train clips in my post yesterday. I've certainly studied these two thoroughly enough. Very inspiring, Truth!
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Friend
climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
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Wow. That strikes a deep nerve.
F*CK it all man. Why did you have to die. I might have a tear in my eye right now. Maybe it’s a dust particle.
It’s been dusty here lately.
RIP JB.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
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Also, I definitely should have included Truthdweller's Cali Night and Hear My Train clips in my post yesterday.
Holy crap if somebody had a video of me trying to boulder Hear My Train looking THAT scared and shaky and apologizing to god and jebus for getting myself into such a mess the *last* place I'd want to see it is the internet! It's like somebody wrote a script for Largo's "The Only Blasphemy" and made it into a movie. Yikes.
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Friend
climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
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Hahahahaa BVB - at first I figured, he's just slandering but, uh... yeah...
I've actually never watched that clip with the audio on for more than a few seconds. Try it on mute. Whole different ambiance.
Edit: htf did you watch that whole thing withOUT muting it?!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:41pm PT
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Just reading these posts makes me want to fly back and just walk up the mountain with someone...*sigh*
Johnny "berger"...pads on DS? Sheesh, I thought bailing at the lip and nearly slamming your chest on the ground was what wanna-be "hardmen" had to go through on that sickness. I remember being up there alone one day when R. Piggot showed up just as I bailed from the crux, and after spitting the dirt out my mouth, I looked up and saw Rick who said, "Sorry about that man." I was alone as well when I finally soloed it.
Friend, I sort of "jumped ship" by posting climbing videos, for "beta" just wasn't acceptable when I started climbing ('81), not forgetting to mention speaking while someone was climbing! You just didn't do those things. When Youtube became popular, I succombed because I didn't have much patience when learning climbing sequences and was always looking for a shortcut. So, I thought videos would be the ticket for those suffering from the same ailment. Amen that you're studying them! Thank God for the crew that motivated me back then and that I looked up, for my successes really belong to them that labored first; Rick Piggot, Greg Epperson, Bob Van Belle, Ron Amick, Ray Olsen, the Almadovar brothers, et al.
The last I soloed IHMT was for that video back in late 2011, just before I moved back east at (49) years young. Now, over the last three years, I've been sedentary and have atrophied more than I've ever been in my life. My "fix" now comes from the "pull" I experience from my turbocharged 2004 Mitsubishi Sportback Ralliart.
When I do come home, I'd be content on just being a consummate guide, commentator, or belay slave for one of you...that would be just fine.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Jan 12, 2015 - 04:56am PT
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Didn't realize Cali Night was a JB FA. The three Bachar finger cracks are all classic and all balls hard.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 06:41am PT
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On the potato chip rock: one bonus of all the people up there to get their picture on it...they love to use the climber trails as toilets. Toilet paper and crap everywhere you look. On our walk down Saturday, we kicked around the idea of grabbing a few burritos one night, several PBRs each, and a bunch of us leaving our own present all over that rock after consuming and processing all that glorious fuel. That, or mAybe just blow it up somehow.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 12, 2015 - 08:37am PT
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Did the Hendricks theme continue over to "Blackfinger" next door?
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/750/BlackFinger-large.jpg
"Electro-Harmonix - From the legendary riffs of Jimi Hendrix and George Clinton to the new-school licks of Slipknot and Korn, musicians have relied on electro-harmonix since the late '60s. Whether you crave the sustaining overdrive of the Big Muff Pi or the warm spring reverb of the hot new Holy Grail, Electro-Harmonix has a stompbox with your name on it."
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Jan 12, 2015 - 08:46am PT
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On the potato chip rock: one bonus of all the people up there to get their picture on it...they love to use the climber trails as toilets.
I've noticed this as well. There has been a huge increase in trash in general on the hill since I started visiting in 2008. I even saw a used diaper in the Mother Superior chasm.
I usually bring a plastic bag to collect tape, wrappers, cigarette butts, and plastic bottles. Packing out someone else's used toilet paper will require next level commitment.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 12, 2015 - 08:57am PT
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I even saw a used diaper in the Mother Superior chasm.
It must have been this guys: http://vimeo.com/13831211
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 12, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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An organized clean-up may be a good idea... perhaps on a Sunday with some signeage to show the new hikers what good stewardship looks like?
Feb 8 anyone? It helps when it's dry because wet TP ain't no joke :P
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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Cleanup would be fantastic. I wonder if we could sweet talk someone into letting us drive a pickup past the gate, use it as a mobile mule as we move down the hill?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 12, 2015 - 09:45am PT
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A greed on the cleanup GDavis. Feb 8 looks fine to me too. At this point, my wife and I are IN.
Packing out someone else's used toilet paper will require next level commitment.
Trust me on this one. I've had lots of HazMat experience. Get those green Nitrile gloves with Doctor gloves as liners underneath. I'll show you how to remove them without getting anything on yourself. It's a nasty business for sure.....
but other than than, it will be good to meet you again Greg. Unless I'm sick or dead, I'm in.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:41am PT
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Right on! I'll pencil it in :) No being sick/dead!
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jonnywoodward
climber
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Jan 13, 2015 - 05:13pm PT
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A sh#t clean-up will only be a temporary solution until the hikers learn to bury. Not saying a clean up is not worth it, but changing the habits of people who don't have the health of mount woodson at heart is what is necessary, however that might be accomplished. Perhaps if everyone on this thread berated them on the appropriate hiking web sites? And if a clean up is done, the entire load should be deposited on PCR at the end of the day.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 13, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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JW Senior, I'm in if you are - what website(s) should we head to for the verbal shredding?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
Coronado
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Jan 13, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
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Contractor willing to provide a dump trailer and cover dump fees if a clean-up goes down.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 13, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
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I won't be avail Feb 8, but for a key you can "attempt" to contact the ranger at
http://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-recreation/parks/osp/blackmtn/
They will have a key but are very difficult to reach.
The road side of Woodson is administered by the city of San Diego Black mountain open space. The other sides are mostly city of Poway.
Another point of contact might be whoever runs the water tank.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jan 14, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
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1982...
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baggenstos
Trad climber
san diego, ca
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Jan 14, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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dude, monkey crack is so painful without tape!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 14, 2015 - 10:08pm PT
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Jan 14, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
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friendly belay^^
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 15, 2015 - 06:43am PT
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Boi-oi-oing
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 15, 2015 - 07:31am PT
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This one is thin and hard on perfect bullet granite.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 15, 2015 - 08:12am PT
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Attempting to secure gate access for the 8th today at lunch, if nobody else has done it yet. Time for the big clean.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jan 15, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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LearningTrad,
Hello, my name is Josh Higgins. I'm the President of the Allied Climbers of San Diego. I'm also trying to organize a cleanup, but I'm gunning for early March. I've already started contacting the rangers, and begun talking to community organizations to pitch in for the effort. I intend to have trash pickup, graffiti removal, and possibly some trail improvement/repair if possible. Would you be interested in working together?
Send me an e-mail/message on Supertopo if you'd like to collaborate!
Thanks!
Josh Higgins
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2015 - 10:17am PT
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Let's do TWO dates! The place could use it.
As far as I know, the ranger to contact is Thomas Stuhr: tstuhr@sandiego.gov OR 858-538-8021
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Friend
climber
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Jan 15, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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Hey Josh,
Please continue to post details as you get them, onto this thread.
I am sure there are lots of us who can't make it Feb 8 but would still like to contribute.
Thanks all for getting the ball rolling on a worthy project.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 15, 2015 - 10:53am PT
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We really need to work with the land managers to come up with a longer term solution, such as providing port-a-potties at the base and summit for the hundreds/thousands of tourist that visit the Potato chip each day/week. If this is not in their budget, maybe we can start some sort of "Friends of the Potato chip" site for donations to pay for this.
Clean ups will only result in temporary relief.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jan 15, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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Josh and others,
I have a van and dump trailer that are up for grabs and again, I will cover the trash bags, dump fees, transport, etc. If there is access up the hill, all the better.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 15, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
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Agreed on the long term solution. Messaged Josh and Contractor.
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matisse
climber
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Jan 15, 2015 - 03:12pm PT
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We were able to get gate access when we did Adopt-a-Crag there years ago. I think Tom Donnelly talked to the city to make it happen.
Sue H
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jan 15, 2015 - 05:05pm PT
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A 'go fund me' campaign for a vault toilet at the base would work well.
As for regular removal and maintenance, thats another story
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 15, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
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Or we could just snap it off and leave a stub. Problem solved.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jan 15, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
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Thoughts on graffiti-Paint over or scrub? That effort has already started in earnest and the giant #10 on the South side of the 67 will soon be dealt with.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 15, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
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Paint-overs are hideous. Like at Roubidoux. Don't do it, for the children!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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Hey gang,
Message has been left at 858 538 8021 - the recording mentioned two other ranger's names, but not Thomas Stuhr. Perhaps he moved on. I left a detailed message as to our intention, method, and time frame.
We've got confirmed vehicle/trailer/trash bags/dumping from our generous Contractor friend - this will make our job so much easier. I'll update when I hear back from the rangers, and hopefully with a YEAH WE GOT THE KEY!
Again, Feb 8th is the date we're shooting for. So far, we're looking at strictly waste management. Once we have access confirmed, we'll firm up the meetup time/etc.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2015 - 10:16am PT
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Excellent work, LearningTrad. I know the locations of several pairs of soiled sweatpants...might need a Hazmat suit for those though.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
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Mystery crack and mystery man
Megalomania bump!
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Jan 17, 2015 - 12:58pm PT
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Jan 17, 2015 - 12:59pm PT
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Jan 17, 2015 - 01:00pm PT
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 17, 2015 - 06:18pm PT
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Andrew, I'd say lose the f*#king bolt. Remove it. This kind of crap has a way of snowballing.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 18, 2015 - 07:31pm PT
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So I tried to take some pictures but it was quite epic. Ever try to keep an object the size of a house in frame while it's moving? Not as easy a task as one might think. Anyway, here's a few shots of the Mellonhead, kept in frame as best I could.
A fun seam down by the fire road.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 18, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
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After doing the seam we looked right a few feet and saw a micro-crimp problem that didn't appear to have been done before. There are some pretty small crimps on this one. Good problem. JW on "The very small, and the very very small."
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jan 19, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
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What is it about that Woodson Mountain granodiorite? There are a bunch of plutons in the Peninsular Ranges, but none of them seem to spawn boulders in quite the same way that this pluton does.
I remember my Petrology prof at San Diego State (Walawender, of course, skcreidc), who grew up on the east coast, recalling that the first time he saw the boulders on Woodson, his first reaction was that they were glacial in origin.
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 19, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
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^^^
Love that talk eeyonkee!
And why all the cracks? One visit there a bunch of years ago, and it's still the stuff of my dreams.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 20, 2015 - 10:33am PT
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Eeyonkee, I remember Walawender saying something like that in Petrology. Being from the West coast I couldn't quite grasp where he was coming from on that one. I blame the Woodson boulders on the wide space jointing and the relatively rapid cooling of the melt. Not much coarse grained material there; it seems the pluton was emplaced then cooled in a single relatively smooth event. How's that for arm-waving ;) . If I could throw in a meteor strike in to help with the explanation, I would. The rest is all chemical weathering ala Dr. Peterson; a geology prof who bore a striking resemblance to Phineas Phreak (but in a good way).
Hey, I'm hoping you will come out one of these days and show us how its done again. Hopefully before we are all doing wheelchair starts.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 20, 2015 - 11:49am PT
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Feb 8th cleanup update:
Left message again with the Rangers at number provided upthread. Also talked to Poway Parks and REc, who directed me to leave a message at the Blue Sky Reserve Rangers line. Talked to San Diego county parks as well. Warmest lead is the Blue Sky folks, I think. I'll keep trying. This is turning out to be more frustrating than that tight left hand jam before the reach on monkey crack. ;)
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 20, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
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Update: blue sky reserve said they're pretty sure city of San diego parks can get us in. I'll try mañana.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 20, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
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Sweet work LT. Thanks for chasing that down. I'll be down (or is it up? Hell if I know) for Feb 8 trash pick up and bouldering either way.
Friend. Regarding the new bolt on Yoav. The short of it is; Should never have been put in.
The long of it is: The way this bolt ethic was layed out to me in the 80's (if I remember right) was you better have a really friggen good reason if you are going to put in a bolt. Robbins doesn't have a bolt (the bolts are there for Eric's face), Jaws/Baby robbins doesn't have a bolt, hell Elsa's doesn't have a bolt and that thing eats ropes, just have a look inside that crack. All these are similar in setup to Yoav Crack. Also, practicing putting in bolts (where not needed) is not a good reason to put in a bolt. Certainly one can argue about the shades of gray in bolting ethics, but this is about as black and white as you can get. No bolt for Yoav. I'll leave it at that for now.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 21, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
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February 8th Cleanup update:
After many phone calls, the City of San Diego Open Spaces seems to be the place to contact. I'm working out the details with a ranger (i.e. phone tag) as we speak.
Contractor, thanks again for the offer of the truck/bags/dumping. As soon as I have the 100% lock on the date and access, I'll coordinate the time with you and post it here.
For dessert after we work, we can all head over and watch GDavis run laps on Drivin' South, a problem which I'm quite sure, he has ruthlessly wired.
Ruthlessly ;)
Edit: mixed up my bachar finger cracks. Lulzy
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 22, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
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LT, just take a trip out to the rangers trailer/bungalo out in, where is it, Black Mountain, or Penasquitos? I forget...and see if you can find him on-site. I got the key back in 2010 for the Woodson Reunion from Ranger Ed Christiansen @ 858 538-8082. Sorry I didn't give this sooner.
Edit: looks like you found him?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 22, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
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So, about the bolting...
IHMT, Black Finger, Hard As Nails, etc., gonna pull those as well? Convenience bolts if you ask me. Gear and slings do just fine. Bolts came in much later.
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hellcyon
climber
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Jan 22, 2015 - 11:50pm PT
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Hubbard, thanks for sharing your passion, with myself, and anyone else that benefits from the contribution of your topos :)
Learning Trad, nice work towards the cleanup effort, thank you! Did you join efforts with A.C.S.D? They have good experience with these events, and the additional exposure of climbers good will amongst the non climbing community is equally as important as cleaning up the place. If you plan on tackling any graffiti removal within a hundred or so feet of the road and want a trailer mounted pressure washer, lemme know.
Friend, congratulations on your trifecta! Dedicated, inspiring effort towards a dream.
jonnywoodward, the back side of this boulder has a nice Scab of features ...
And Stuff Itt into Muff Itt, that would explain the used condom i found in the cave nearby last year! :P
Henny, the seams crack cleaned up nice on both sides, but we never shoe'd up for the seam itself, nice work. And the face next to it, sweet, if that's your bag there's boatloads of beauties up the hill that we'd just walk a blind eye beyond, that shit's thin! lol
As far as the bolt atop the Yoav crack, i offer this challenge to the person who placed it. Ask around of any and all the climbers you know and don't know who enjoy climbing at Woodson, if they would like to see bolts placed next to cracks on top of their favorite climbs? If you can honestly say the majority of everyone you hear from is in favor of bolting even when unnecessary, then may your bolt stand the test of time. And if not, if most folks prefer to carry a few cams and engineer their own anchors, are you willing to remove your bolt? Take pride in your action, your contribution was sincere. Ask around. I, for one, would rather only use bolts when necessary. I also would rather use a bolt next to a crack, than see a botched bolt removal that was not done really well.
So as not to end on the buzzkill bolting bomb...another photo perhaps.. :)
Happy Trails
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 23, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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I'd be a bit surprised if the seam hadn't been done by somebody. There was even a little work already done to terrace the landing, which was nice. Good problem, seemed like a shorter version of Lemon Chiffon.
Re JWs photo: a couple of pictures of the problem he was asking about.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jan 23, 2015 - 08:41am PT
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 23, 2015 - 08:55am PT
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I spoke at length with a fantastic ranger-dude, and we discussed logistical issues and his schedule. Long story short, I feel like not doing the feb 8th thing, and joining forces with Josh Higgins ACSD efforts makes the most sense. Josh has already extended the invitation to join, so I think we should. I'm waiting to hear from him if we could use any additional vehicles/etc, and I'm not 100% sure, but 99% sure that his date is March 22nd. Thanks to all for chiming in with contact-beta.
Our motley crew of fools and noobs will be happy to scrub and remove trash along with ACSD - hopefully after we can sneak over and learn some of these NE side secrets. Killing me with the pictures!
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Friend
climber
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Jan 23, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
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Nice Hellcyon! Another drool-inducing crop of photos. Hey, I PM’d you and CH recently, check your ST emails and gimme a shout.
Great shots all. Here’s a few more to fuel the fire.
JW looking smooth on small holds
JW also looking smooth
Baron on the sweet tips problem
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 23, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
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Went out solo today and explored, then hit the usual spots. Nice day out there.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Jan 25, 2015 - 06:30pm PT
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Ya'll are fluffers yo.
right you are bob-o, and the fatter i get, the fluffer they are. I did all that sh#t in my tennies bitd anyway, and it was easy.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Jan 25, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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on bolting at woodson, good anchor bolts are always welcome and always have been. If you place a bolt on a route, do it on the lead or there is 100% certainty that it will fall out. Respect tradition and the rock and do it right or dont do it.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Jan 25, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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Ok henny, a couple from bitdunidentified hot guy doing the FA of the dreaded "christ on crutches" V3/4, near the base of american gypsy.
the man and his route - Greg Epperson, author of some of the best problems on the hill, eyeballing his classic testpiece "syncopation" V4/5
working a project with allenby bitd
did i stick it? you serious?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 25, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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Well, since Bolton started it, I may as well post a few more Mellonhead shots.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 26, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
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Is that animal soloing Lie Detector/Robbin's backsside?
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Friend
climber
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Jan 26, 2015 - 05:52pm PT
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BVB: dream on dude. That is an easy fingercrack in an undisclosed location.
Who soloed Lie Detector BITD? How many people had it wired.
BTW eyeballed Syncopation, Blind Faith, and Undertow for the first time recently. Proud. Wow! Again I gotta wonder how many people actually get up these things. One? Five? A dozen... ever??
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 26, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
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Lie Detector has been soloed three times that I know of. Hey, I flashed the FA of Undertow! Not too many climbs at Woodson that haven't seen a repeat, and most everything has been done ropeless (some more than others, of course.) Syncopation ain't bad but I've heard the ground has eroded a bit. That would definately make it harder! I only know of two ascents of the Vice Principle's Office.
Blind Faith? I don't recall that one at all! What/where is it?
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Friend
climber
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Jan 26, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
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Blind Faith is a Gonamok Special... it appears to be a footless mantel over a bulge onto a hold that resembles a downsloping cake of soap.
Irreversible and high over a bad landing, naturally.
Undertow = absurdly rad
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 27, 2015 - 06:30am PT
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This thing caught my eye. Holy sh!t, that's an interesting vision. To think there's a chance to get up that. Way beyond me.
So Gonamuck, it you didn't pull it, how long could you hang there?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jan 28, 2015 - 07:11am PT
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Friend, go find Vice Principals Office for another, "absurdly rad" experience.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 31, 2015 - 11:40pm PT
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Great day on the hill this morning, awesome cloudcover and a good time showing some newbies anchor stuff while I let my bones heal. Met some really cool folks who got psyched from this thread to try new challenges. Go get it!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Sa-weet Greg! That's what it's all about. Heading over that way shortly for some exploring and ring locks, if all goes well.
EDiT: LoL!
EDUT: just found out its locals only!!!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Congrats to Friend for snatching up the hardest unclimbed handcrack on the hill, and naming it after his boy. Dude is quite the tour guide, but I still feel like I'm the cooler Burch.
http://vimeo.com/118459248
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Friend
climber
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Thanks LT,
It was fun tagging along with you guys yesterday, great vibes.
That crack is a gem. I’ve been asking around extensively, in person and via email, trying to see if anyone’s climbed it or was even aware of it. Certainly plenty of past/present Woodson climbers who could have hiked it, but it was so well hidden until recently, I think maybe I was just in the right place at the right time. Reiterating my question from a few weeks ago on this thread – if you’ve climbed this thing, post up or let me know.
If not, go do it. Video doesn’t really do it justice. It’s an overhanging 1 ¼” splitter – what’s not to like?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Add some water and there are Burch's popping up all over. Here ya go LT
http://vimeo.com/118515076
Yes, thanks for the tour Friend. Great stuff!!! Tried to PM you (let me know if you did get it) and not sure you got it. Mainly because I want to know if my pm function is working, lol! So without further adieu...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Haha knew it was you
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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It's gonna be all LOLZ until one of us goes "Wile E. Coyote" on the chip...
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Hey LT!! 10 people thought it was useful, so there IS hope after all.
GdaviS. Being out there on a regular basis, Wife and I just pick up a little each time we go now....tho I have NOT had the balls to pick up the soiled underwear I have lucked into.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nice man I'll be out there Wednesday morning for a friends ab day party. You should come Adam I'll help you out, we can get you up some 5.10's.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 9, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
Nice man I'll be out there Wednesday morning for a friends ab day party. You should come Adam I'll help you out, we can get you up some 5.10's.
Awww, man. I love a good ab day party, but I’m working Wednesday morning. Is “get me up some 5.10’s” a euphemism for making out? because if it is, I’ll call in sick to work. You know how I roll.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Haha was thinking a winch would be involved...
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 9, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
Haha was thinking a winch would be involved...
Good one? I guess?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Wait. What!? Does this making out involve a wench or a winch? 'Cause making out with an operating winch could be painfull. Lips have been lost that way mister.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 13, 2015 - 01:38am PT
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Number one rule of Woodson-night-climb is?
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Friend
climber
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Feb 14, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
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Mike Paul mentioned in one of these threads that Columbo Crack was established by Ron Kauk. At the fabled 1986 contest? Anyone on here remember?
Trolling for cool historical recollections. ..
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 14, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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No Colombo Crack was there in the mid-70's. Mike and I did it together in fact, 77 - 78? Prolly just another urban legend bongload misquote!
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 15, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
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Live from Woodson
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Feb 15, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
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[quote]If anyone knows if these are established problems with different names post here and I'll edit this. (Attn Ron Amick!)[quote]
hey jonny, sorry for the late reply. Your muff it stuff it etc is nothing ive ever seen before, looks like a good find
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Feb 15, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
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fyi the land right at the base, next to the road is cal fire property. As soon as you get on the paved road you are on ramona water district property, which ends at their big water tank. From there its city of san diego up the trail to the top. However, the base of the south and west sides of the hill are city of poway, and its unclear where the boundary between sd city and poway property is. No maps exist and im not sure a true boundary has ever been established.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Feb 15, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
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ya colombo crack is an oldie and a desperado huck suited for only the fittest of the fit. Guys like bvb used to eat their lunch while hanging from those jams. Personally i dont look at it as i go by. I touched it once and it hurt for a week.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Feb 15, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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So Gonamuck, it you didn't pull it, how long could you hang there?
We were able to pull over the bulge and slap for a variety of micros, none nearly good enough. There was a scoop on the lip that rick tried to mantle, got his arm cocked but that was it. I decided to fly for a dime, caught it and was able to hang onto it for approx 3 milliseconds, or as long as it took for my full weight to bear on it, whence i flew with great gusto into a stand of sage. Thatthing was never in danger of being climbed, at least not by us
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Feb 15, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
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I'd be a bit surprised if the seam hadn't been done by somebody. There was even a little work already done to terrace the landing, which was nice. Good problem, seemed like a shorter version of Lemon Chiffon.
Pretty sure that seam is a thing me n allenby did bitd. Named it um, fingerf*#k 11C as i recall.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 16, 2015 - 09:42am PT
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Live from Woodson. Name that crack
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 07:10am PT
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HURR HURR indeed
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 17, 2015 - 09:13am PT
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HURR HURR HURR
Bless you dooood! Those hairballs are murder.
That last face climb has Darkmagus written all over it. Shaaaaawwwweeeeeeeeeeet stuff!! Perfect; and a beautiful day to boot.
Dat flake don't look too stable doooods. It is heavy, but dayum it's been walking.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Feb 17, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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If you'd like to give some love back to the mountain, the Allied Climbers of San Diego will be working with The Wall Climbing Gym to organize a cleanup event at Mt. Woodson. It will be on March 22nd, from about 8-12 with climbing afterward.
Here's a link to the facebook event:
https://www.facebook.com/events/1535004483439455/
And a flyer for the event:
The Wall will have schwag for people who are attending the event, and we're working with the ranger to get the key to the hill. I hope to see you all out there!
Josh Higgins
President, Allied Climbers of San Diego
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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^^^^^. Do your part, friends! Should be a fantastic day out. Camping at Dos Picos nearby if you have a longer drive.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:08pm PT
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Over on the South side of the 67 I see.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
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Your Mom is the south side of 67.
Burn
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
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^^^
Hey Burchey, who's the clown running the ass-floss?
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 17, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
^^^
Hey Burchey, who's the clown running the ass-floss?
He's straight and married. Sorry brah, keep looking.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
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Tell his husband to treat him right.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
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Will do. Not a huge fan of his husband, she makes all the tight hand cracks look easy.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 17, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
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Well, in Elcap's defense my first thought when I saw that shot was ... Damn! I should have taken that thing off!! But it did seem to help me get up that finger crack faster....
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Feb 17, 2015 - 03:36pm PT
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Yeah I had stated that Ron Kauk had done "Columbo Crack" first but it was in the mid '70's...As I had done all of the harder cracks that were there at the time by age 15...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 17, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
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It just cracks me up when people "thong" their cordothingamabob. Looks like some serious potential for discomfort in the wrong circumstances.
I do love that Woodson stone, need to get down there more.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Feb 17, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
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Shirley lookin good. I added a bolt to back up the rusting 5/16" buttonhead at the top a few weeks ago.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 17, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
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Sh#t man last time I did Shirley that bolt was brand new! Oh, wait...
Is that Laverne upthread? Super glaasy rock. So fine, so fine.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 17, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
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Yea...started out the day a baratone and ended up the day a soprano...
The pic of Shirley came out really nice LT. My last 2 additions for the day;
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Friend
climber
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Feb 17, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
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Watusi!
Super cool.
Thanks for posting up. You are someone I'd definitely like to see more of on these Woodson threads. Any other classic FAs/tales you'd care to share? Kauk's, yours, others, etc I'm all ears man. Crack a beer and start rambling. Hope you're well.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 17, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
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If Shirley were almost anyplace else it'd be a popular 4-bolt sport lead. Yikes.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 18, 2015 - 08:23am PT
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 17, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
If Shirley were almost anyplace else it'd be a popular 4-bolt sport lead. Yikes.
I know, it doesn't see much traffic so nobody has had a chance to bolt it yet, unfortunately. I've got some shiny ones clinking around in the bottom of my pack, I'll toss them up the next time I'm out there. Probably early next week.
Wink
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Feb 18, 2015 - 11:10am PT
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I'm sure someone has led it on gear, or I would hope so.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 21, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
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Live. Better than the other option, lol!! Midnight runs now is it. Work hard, play hard dude ;)
Nothing so exciting for us today. Feeling old and slow, Patty and I went up to work on our cracks trying to build some stamina for IC with Donini (hopefully). So after the obligatory warm up, we set up on Robbins Crack and ran laps. Yup, LT, I lead it with 2 pieces and no hangs. I really wanted to place one in the steep section and then work through it to the rest. 8 laps total for us.
What kills me is hanging and placing pro, then futzing with the clipping and such. I suppose the best way to get better at this and build strength is to just do it? Or following WL's rules, be the rope gun any and all the times you can get away with it. Helps to have Patty saying I better get it done so's she can start running laps, lol!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 21, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
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Practice, practice, practice. Or, y'know, as I like to say, just climb a lot. You'll be able to set a piece and clip it in the flutter of a gnat's eyelash.
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Friend
climber
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Feb 21, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
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^^ man knows what he's talking about.
nice job skcreidc. Goals keep us moving forward... feels good to send!
But, uhhh... better run a lot of laps on Robbins if you are prepping for IC :)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Feb 21, 2015 - 04:42pm PT
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nice job on the laps
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Friend
climber
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Feb 22, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
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They grow like weeds down there
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 23, 2015 - 06:33am PT
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Nice weed Friend! I need to lead and run laps on many many more of these short ones to have a shot at IC is what I hear from you and BVB. Shoot, it's now or never for us. So it looks like its now, lol! Next time on Robins, instead of alternating one lap per i'm going for 4 consecutive then let Patty run laps on it for a few. Any suggestions? We both got to bump up our crack strength as we aren't getting any younger.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
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Anyone get a chance to continue up the trail/ridge from Shirley and find the gems up along there?
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Feb 27, 2015 - 12:02am PT
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Some folks have been going up as you see by the pictures. Seems the order of the day is to go to a new area. Then you leave your trash there. Then you start prying off flakes and f*#k up an existing solo circuit. Does anybody just go climb without trying to be a movie star anymore?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 27, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
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Great god I felt tired today. But still led Robbins then we ran 8 laps on it. At 58, there is NO wait.
Anyone get a chance to continue up the trail/ridge from Shirley and find the gems up along there?
Some truthdweller, some of it; we are still working on it.
Some folks have been going up as you see by the pictures. Seems the order of the day is to go to a new area. Then you leave your trash there. Then you start prying off flakes and f*#k up an existing solo circuit. Does anybody just go climb without trying to be a movie star anymore?
Sanstone, that is some funny sh!t you wrote. You been hanging with the wrong people? We leave places cleaner than we found it, and why would anyone pry off flakes. Which brings me to the question; where people been pulling off flakes? If so, that really sucks. We been trying to be low key; leave no trace, well, just trimming the veg. The supertopo messageing blows so call me if you want. (619) 851-3466.
Chris
EDIT; Been having some dyslexic senior moments lately, so my apologies to anyone trying to call the phone number I left. It has been corrected and the double post deleted.
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Friend
climber
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BUMP
Hey sandstone, let’s hear some more about these allegations of yours. Prying off flakes. Where?
New area? You can’t mean Laverne and Shirley, dead-obvious roadside cracks established decades ago. What are you talking about?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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I was wondering the same thing. WTF is he talking about? And 7 posts in the last 5 years? We should be honored!
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
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He knows something we don't know: lots of loose potato chip flakes means you're on a well-traveled classic...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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*snicker* the thing behind is better, yo.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 14, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
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This is a call out to the JW's OR anybody who can direct me to Starface. I took the trail down from Bighorn. Basically goes either mostly South of it, or heads a bit more westerly as the trail bifrucates. The trail that heads more south ends up at an overhanging offwidth that starts out fisthand stacks and widens going up. The other trail I had to stop 'cause I can't take my wife on that without knowing where I'm going, lol!!. Hopefully I was on one the right trail. Can someone tell me which one? I need to sus this out first, then drag my wife out.
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baggenstos
Trad climber
san diego, ca
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Mar 14, 2015 - 04:40pm PT
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Sounds like you were on the right trail. The offwidth that you found is Maria's. If you keep contouring the hillside instead of dropping down left to Maria's you'll end up at Starface. The trail is pretty obvious but there's a few awkward spots where you have to go over boulders.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 14, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
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sanstone, if you know of anybody who really does the things your are talking about, kindly forward that information to me and i will have a talk with them. San Diego has always been a bastion of traditional ethics. Time has brought change, and a limited amout of rap bolting in specific areas has been tolerated (dont try it at woodson), but chipping, gluing and any other artificial enhancement will never be ok. How about some specific examples of the rock butchery of which you speak?
And whomever you are, you are in no position to make a judgement on san diego's climbing ethics, because 1)who are you? and 2)you dont know what youre talking about
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 14, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
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Gary, Rick and I have checked out the ridge south of woodson, accessing it once from K2 and once from ellie lane. We found it surprisingly open and easy to navigate on top, and surprisingly devoid of potential. I think targeting specific giant boulders to access from the top may be the best way to check those things out.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 15, 2015 - 10:25am PT
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Thanks baggenstos, I WAS on the right track originally. And the bonus was I found that OW too. I need to go back with clippers and find the rock first. THEN take the wife there. It just needs a wee bit of trail work before I take her down all the way I think.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 17, 2015 - 09:15am PT
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Thanks for posting that up Warbler. I don't know the guy and I certainly don't feel qualified to speak for anyone who climbs in that area, but (after I posted up the right #) sanstone gave me a call and we talked for quite a while. Seemed stand up to me, and after my bro-in-law gets off deaths door (liver transplant as I post) I plan to get together with him to climb.
Chris
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
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Whoa, those are more like potatoes, not potato chips!
Hope to see you out there, Sanstone, I heckle because I know no better.
Also because heckling is funny.
But rest assured, we share your sentiments on the preservation and conservation of the precious Woodson granitic eggs.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
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Pictures are fun, and exciting. Here's on for your enjoyment. They are also like firearms, dangerous in the hands of irresponsible individuals with egotistical motives. Especially hands that like to rewrite history to accelerate their own impatient and selfish timelines. Ask Ryan Gosling.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
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Starslab is one of my favorites at Woodson.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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I just hope it cools down one of these weekends. I've been up in the mountains and it is in the 70's up there.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:29pm PT
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It's pretty easy to see what went down here just by following the bread crumbs on this thread, 2014 and 2015. Climbers, after exhausting the potential (and vegetation) near Y-Crack, migrated over to the Rexroads. While there, they looked up and saw more potential. While "Bro-uldering" whatever the f*#k that is, they created a "Gold Rush" mentality seeded by Truthdweller's prompted over the last number of years(Thanks Gary), and fertilized with Hubbard's lure of recognition.
Once they finally made it up the hill a short way, it didn't take long for the photos to hit ST. Perfect union: Yohansolo can play with his new drill, Friend can make some new crack videos, Hubbard can get some new material for next guide book, and like Alpha Beta,they can tell a friend and they can tell a friend.
It didn't take them long to trip and fall though. On the same (day/week) Friend starred in, and posted his new video, Yohansolo posted how he got to play with his new drill on Shirley. The same time permanent damage was being done to the Chronicles arete solo. Same bolts, same color, same age. Coincidence? Doubtful.
I showed Hubbard the Chronicles face climbs a week or two earlier and mentioned the need for caution due to the loose flakes. Couple weeks later, the flakes were gone. Coincidence? Doubtful.
Nice work gentlemen. What's next on your list of things to destroy? Better hurry springtime is almost over. You all asked for proof of damage and now you have it. So who is going to step up and apologize? Anybody? Doubtful.
And last off, who am I to speak? The one that's been climbing up there for about 35 years now. Well documented by credible names like Worrall, Leavitt, Hatchett, Shannon, Mckay, Belford, and Foreman.I'm the one that built the current trail, 90% of it by myself, from the bottom to top(About a mile). A minimum of once, at times twice a year, I go top to bottom to clear brush. After the rain I'm up there smoothing the trail with shovel and hoe. I'm well aware of the other token trail work that has been done on the hill by others.
I also have an archive of climbing photos and data regarding the area which I'm happy to share with responsible people. Documentation of the fire damage, regrowth, etc. As far as climbing routes, I have about 50, good to very good ones that i'm positive are mine and have named. Some have needed significant landing area work. Probably another 50, that I've cleaned and climbed, but assumed somebody like Paul, Piggot, or other legend bagged in the late 70's to early 80's. Many of those lie around the summit above K2. As Gonnamuk said "A lot is devoid of potential".
If I see someone is trying to make guide book and blow up the area, I'll just do it myself. I could have done that many years ago. No sense in following a legacy of conflict and disputed climbing history as has been the case at Descanso Wall, El Cajon Mtn, Eagle Peak, Valley of the Moon, and Woodson.
For the record, I have no interest in keeping people from enjoying the area. I just have an interest in keeping people from destroying it, as they have initiated in very short order.
Did people not learn anything from Iron Mountain or Potato Chip Rock on Yelp?
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
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These are the bolts: One on top of Shirley and one directly above the damage done on the Chronicles arete. "Dear Watson, I think we have a smoking gun". What about it Yohan?[photoid=403192]
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
|
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Mar 18, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
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Where is the photo of the rusty buttonhead on top of Shirley. I was just backing up an established bolt. I will gladly remove and patch any bolt added in error. When was the 5/16" buttonhead placed and have you seen the thread about the exact same type of bolt failing at Owens resulting in a fatality?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
|
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Mar 18, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
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I initially soloed up the start of the arete to the loose flakes and thought it was a FA. Russian roulette without cleaning. I am very sorry though, please climb it again. There were also established bolts on top of this boulder on the overhang.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:19am PT
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I have no problem with the replacement of the bolt on Shirley. Or even if a second 3/8 bolt was placed additionally for "that" climb and the button head removed. That action made sense. I assume that any talk of bolting the face is nothing but bullsh#t, because it is.
As for your invitation to climb my arête climb, I soloed it yesterday, minus the starting hold you removed, and finish hold you removed, and took pictures of the damage you did with my I -phone. About twenty pictures. Amazing what taking the time to get to know the rock can do.
As for Russian Roulette? Thanks for the compliment though. All those corridor climbs were established with no rope, no pad, and no audience. Just time, a wire brush, screwdriver, chalk bag, and respect for the rock. Oh, and Rush on my I-Pod.
My impression is that you are pretty climber. As such, I really can't understand why you didn't go climb the overhang with the two bolts there sitting, waiting to be clipped, or something else.
I' ll take care of the bolt myself. Just please don't do any more damage there. The fact that the area. feels wild is exactly what is good about it.
I do commend you for taking responsibility for the damage. The only question that remains is, who were you with?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:26am PT
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As I said, if I had known that face had been climbed before, I would have climbed up to the first loose flake and backed off as I could see many more loose holds above and do not have a death wish. I assumed it had not been climbed and wanted to leave a sustainable and repeatable climb so I removed the loose flakes.
I was with Jonny Woodward that day.
I also put in one more bolt that trip on a boulder at the very top of the ridge. There was an established crack climb with a bolt on top and we were trying the face to the right and added a bolt to TR that climb.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:52am PT
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Rush is also one of my favorite bands and I have seen them twice in concert.
I am sorry that you feel I "damaged" the rock but I would disagree and still feel it is a better climb now and repeatable.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:07am PT
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Sanstone, I think part of the problem is that no one I know (that's not saying much) know's anything about what's you have done in that area. Personally, I like to explore a lot, so heading over to the South side was only natural for me. The solitude is very appealing. And I know you're pissed about Martian Chronicles being irreparably altered, and I don't blame you. But with what little I know of Johann, I'm sure he would not of changed it if he knew what was going on up there. In the few times I have spoken with him, I have learned a lot of positive things from him (and Woodward). Actually, just like I learned a lot when I spoke with you on the phone. All what I consider positive stuff.
Communication is key I think. I think it might be time for you to give a little tour to show what's up there for people like Johann. Some small group of people who are also active in the area to help spread the word when necessary. You said you saw Hubbard up there, so it would seem that now might be the time to help protect the place. A preemptive strike if you will to address your concerns. It's your call though. But you might want to consider you weren't the first to explore that area and will not be the last.
Either way Sanstone, looking forward to climbing with you some day soon.
Chris
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:14am PT
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Thanks for the map Johannsolo!! I was about 50 ft from the thing when I turned around. This Sunday for sure.
Speaking of Sunday, don't forget the Woodson Cleanup from 8am to noon March 22nd. The Mt. Woodson Trail Clean up is being sponsered by ACSD and The Wall Climbing Gym and it will be necessary to bring gloves, trashbags, hat, water, sunscreen and snacks. Might want to bring your pooper scooper too. Apparently there will be swag from the sponsors at the end and will be climbing until sunset! Hmmmm, read the popular spots will be crowded, BUT it's for a good cause.
Chris
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:37am PT
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Again I want to thank you for your honesty.I'm sure you are a nice guy. That being said, "Sustainability" are you f*#king kidding me? You come down here, bolt 3 different climbs in a day, ruining some of the coolest colored rock on the hill and that's sustainable. I guess that's how they view things in "Soul" California. Doesn't seem very soul to me. Seems more like the "Gold Rush" mentality I described earlier. It also doesn't appear that your ability to recognize the best lines on the rock are very good either. Had you taken time to CLIMB instead of BOLT, you would have realized that.
For that matter, how many days have you spent climbing there before you deemed it necessary to bolt anything.
You should feel good (not) about the renaming of the arete though. Previously it was simply called the Chronicles Arete. Now, with the inspiration of RG, will change to "The Flakes of Wrath".
Again, thanks for your honesty. I hope you learned a lesson about "Showing up to a new area, (new to you) prying off flakes and damaging an existing solo circuit", like I said in my original post. The first post I've done in about five years.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:54am PT
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skcreidc and RG. I've never claimed to be the first, and not trying to be the last to climb at the Boulders aka Cerro Terre. Nor do I view myself as the second coming of Christ. As I said in my previous post, I'm happy to show the area to "Responsible" people. You seem like one of those people. It would be my pleasure to show you around the hill as we discussed.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
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I just want to chime in here because i challenged sanstone's knowledge and background regarding the woodson area, and need to follow up on that. I got a call from 'sanstone' the other night, and he wanted to meet and have a beer and talk all this stuff over. Right then i knew he was a stand up guy, because face to face is how real people take care of business.
So we met at a place in poway and i bought him a beer. He was understandably unhappy with my belittling (my word) comments, but he quickly vented his displeasure and i apologized for being a judgemental twit, then we got to talking shop.
Over the course of an hour of enjoyable, animated and sometimes loud conversation, we found that we are very much alike in ethics, experience and time spent in the brush exploring and developing. Sanstone has extensive experience on woodson dating back to the early 80s. I can vouch that he is the real deal, and that he is one of the good guys. His info is firsthand and if anyone knows what is currently going on up on the hill, he does.
The main thing that he and i share is a love of woodson and a determination to keep sleazy and destructive practices from taking root on the hill. Im talking about chipping, gluing, excessive defoliation, rap bolting, over bolting and disrespect for other climbers and the environment. I fully endorse and support his efforts and plan on many trips with him in that capacity.
There are unscrupulous and self interested parties causing irreversible damage on and around woodson, and they will be stopped by whatever means necessary, and held accountable for their actions. Its a cancer and will only get worse. More to come on this.
Johannsolo, when sanstone and i talked about the broken flakes and he told me he thought you might have done it, I replied that if you did it that you would cop to it and talk about it because thats how you are, and thats what you did. Hats off to honesty and good character!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
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Sanstone. I was wrong to question you, because it was I who didnt know what they are talking about. Ya i fell into the old school, know it all geezer mentality, and i thank you for calling me on it, because thats not what i want to be.
Its weird to have age deterioriate your abilities, your ego takes a hit. In 1990 I had the knowledge. In 2015 i am not especially relevant, and i didnt want to admit that to myself. Even geezers need to keep learning and growing, and i humbly beg your forgiveness for talking out my ass.
Call me when youre ready to get out there man, im ready.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2015 - 01:36pm PT
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Lots of good sh*t in this thread. Honesty levels are running high.
I think that nearly all of us here at ST are cut from similar cloth and that we share roughly the same values and aesthetic sense regarding Woodson and climbing in general. We really need to be hanging out, climbing with each other, sharing stories/beta/wisdom, because we're of the same ilk: journeymen, masters, explorers, adventurers, risk takers, nature enthusiasts, etc...
Just for a bit of perspective: do we all acknowledge that "The Fake Eppulator" aka "The Cave Problem" is THE most popular boulder problem on the hill? It's the potato chip rock for boulderers. Check this rant out:
The contemporary boulderer knows that there's nothing good at Woodson except "The Cave Problem" (yeah, I know, they actually don't realize that there's something else called "The Cave"). After you do that, the place is considered climbed out. Maybe if you're feeling really adventurous you'll go find "Nightmare on Elm Street" (V7/5.13, am I right guyz?). But that is IT! I'm only saying this to help people understand that climbers today don't really care about highball slabs/faces and they definitely ain't climbing cracks, let alone harder ones. They like short "thuggish" overhangs with lots of space for pads and hangin' out. So if you know of any of those, I'd keep them on lockdown. Because if word gets out that there's a "new V10" (old-school woodson .12-), then the hordes of pad people will show up. And it's not so much the hordes themselves that are a problem, but the utter lack of outdoor experience that will have them f*cking the place up. Sh#t, one of them might even bring a hammer if the "proj" won't go.
I'm inclined to say that any bolts installed by "JW Squared" aren't going to be superfluous. Perhaps not as minimalist as others would like, but yeah, broken-ass old bolts kill people. Just my two cents!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:44am PT
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There are a lot of candidates for most popular problem on the hill. Are you sure that the cave and fake eppulator are the same thing?
I love how the gentleman who wrote the excellent post/rant quoted above enlightens us as to what climbers are looking for today. I think the best places to look for the type of thuggish climbs he is seeking would be climbing gyms. And what a bummer to find out that the slabs and cracks ive been climbing all these years are nothing but choss. Dammit, another bad life choice.
If the grainy little sideshow called "nightmare on elm street" is 5.13 then we are going to have to up-rate a bunch of other stuff.
I wonder what he means by "climbed out"? That all the routes have been climbed? Well they wouldnt be a route if they havent been climbed. Maybe he means hes got the only 2 problems on the hill wired and is tired of them? Hard to say. Climbed out could mean anything from "my shoes wont stick" to "ive done everything i can on the road and am afraid of bushes".
I have to thank this guy for raising the bar so high that i hardly look like an ass now.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:49am PT
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You are not the only ones to be quiet about what you have done at Woodson!
KB took me and others under his wing so to speak in '81. There are a lot of people who have had hollywierd jobs that gave them time to climb, as well as out of work climbers who have spent time, lots of time climbing there too.
The number of solos done free, onsight* would surprise some of you, but clearly now you know that!
*(Not ground up, we would clean each other routes, striving for unattainable purity 'cause in our excitement we would try out the holds/ moves and tell each other. No one was going to be famous, no sponsership or gyms it was about fun in the sun and getting hard as nails.it was a different world)
Cheers and carry a hammer n' chisel if you must remove bolts, or you could get over it and let the world of 'new climbers' spin out of control... Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Oh wow now that I have spent some time reading, it is clear that the 'New' climbers know and do not care. They give a wink and a nod to each other while blowing compliments, Smoke up the butts of old aged climbers who's achievements, by having been kept on the 'down lo',
are now in question. I think that Sanstone should publish !! And no one has more cred, well maybe some but they have yet to yell stop destroying the rock!T
The punks are all grown up armed with $$ and drills n' boltz .so the war is on but lost already, If even one hand sized flake has been unnecessarily pried from the miraculous flexible matrix that has helped teach climbers to learn how hard to pull for ever almost.
If you can climb past a wiggler, a R rated climb, then go a head but to strip off the fabulous teaching, moments leaving a stupid jug haul that teaches nothing that sirs or Curs, is a criminal act , get a sak and climb past loose rock with care.
Sorry I won't be out there to photograph you I have the Video of Ivan green, 'sculpting' a boulder to create a very hard(v10?) problem. Have you all seen it? I will find it and post it here.
He feels it is the 'new' extension of the non-climbing sport that is modern bouldering. NOT
No I do not agree but I can barely climb V3 so am not a heard/listened to, voice in the wilderness.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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The bar HAS been lowered!! That "boulderer" I'm talking about is not just one person, it's potentially many people. People that I hear talking about Woodson in the gyms. I'm a gym rat during the week, that's how I know. I've heard gym employees and patrons (sometimes also very strong climbers) say that "there's only one good problem at Woodson". They're talking about The Fake Eppulator, which they mistakenly refer to as "The Cave Problem", and call V6/V7 (.12+/.13). Some folks haven't ever been climbing at Woodson, despite living in San Diego and "being a climber", and if they do go, it will be all about The Fake Eppulator. I threw in Nightmare on Elm Street because some of these same folks will venture up the hill for that one after they've sent the Fake Eppulator, but that's probably relatively rare.
So this is a type of person that we could focus on as far as educating about ethics, history, style, etc. I really think that we are all cut from the same cloth here on this site, and that we are more similar than we are different. My imaginary example of the "contemporary boulderer" is very real, and just like the potato chip rock hordes, they both need a little help as to not f*ck the place up. Like, if you see a shirtless bro with a beanie, and he asks you where "The Cave Problem" is (this exact thing happened to Johannsolo and I one Sunday), show them you're "hip" by taking them to Fake Eppulator, but on your way try to tell them a Royal Robbins story or something cool. Get 'em psyched on the history. And suggest they wear a shirt, that manzanita is f#cked up.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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No. Manzanita is good stuff.
Sort of.
Edit(s): It would be a shame to cheat someone out of the chance to learn some new "words" while they figured out how to deal with it. There are some things people just need to figure out by themselves, valuable life lessons and all that.
Good one Kevin, ha.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 20, 2015 - 11:37pm PT
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Quo
Mar 19, 2015 - 07:52am PT
Rush is also one of my favorite bands and I have seen them twice in concert.
I am sorry that you feel I "damaged" the rock but I would disagree and still feel it is a better climb now and repeatable.te Here
Hopefully this will be my last post on this subject. I go back into obscurity on ST, and resume my otherwise normal life. The issue has been 99% squashed on paper. Here is the important, final 1%. The most important 1%.
Yohan went to an area that has been climbed for decades. I know for a fact he has no significant time spent on the rock in that area. He made a decision to place a top rope bolt above a section of loose flakes that at best, would have been a "Squeeze Play", considering the clean routes that are with arms reach on each side of what he pried off. Routes that I have been climbing seasonally for about 12 years.
I climbed these lines today. They are still great climbs. Yohan still feels he created a "better climb". The truth is that he never climbed the line that he did the damage on. I was there within days of the damage. There was still dirt caked under the flakes he pried off, and not one chalk mark on the whole wall (I have photos if anyone disputes that too).
Coincidentally, the crack that "Friend" was making movies on that day, was loading with chalk.As were a couple boulder problems in the immediate area. All these climbs mentioned are within 100 yards. Point: If Yohan had climbed any of this stuff seriously, it would have showed.
Yohan- What you still fail to understand, is that there is NO route below the bolt you placed. Before or after you pried the flakes. The Arete climb is 3'to the left and it is a great climb. "Fire Balloon" is 3' to the right, and ends at the high point of the rock. "Middle of Air" goes straight up the highest point of the rock. Down climb to the climbers right.
How fitting that some you that have been following this thread will be cleaning up up Mt. Woodson this weekend. Slandering the people that ruin climbing areas. I invite you all to think about the value of preserving the precious resource that exists in and around the area.
Given a virgin Woodson, would you preserve it or just ruin it?
And remember, The Hills Have Eyes.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:01am PT
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This is from an Equal and you should know better uses his handssolo to jerk off flakes that should have been left in place Curb your ego it won't grow your member and it will get you membership revoked
Come for fun not to claim firsts that were sent when you were still in short pants! (Diapers, when I get pissed the Brit comes out)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:38am PT
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Making mountains out of molehills...
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:17am PT
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TURE GDavis
If they are the mole hills that you have climbed on for decades, built trails, cared about as you would a family member then IMO it matters.
When someone who knows better and cares to ruin (and call it making it better !?)a finite resource that is about to be under siege from the next set of gym trained '"klimbers'"
(tic mark safest at the cost of the rock mentality).
Steps to force the community to look and see, are the best ways to address the situation.
I said that the climb and let climb approach is best and it seems that Sanstone gets this a well.
The damage is done more will happen but if we old school believers can stand against the hoard a bit longer the growth curve will catch up and the value of the unspoiled will be appreciated by more and the rock and preservation of the rock will be more
Not less important .
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Thanks for the support Gnome. Glad to see someone still get's it.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:24pm PT
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Relax, this isnt about climbing ability, its about preserving a finite resource that we all have to share. Having said that, heres my take on this particular incident.
If this were about one climb i would say that its blown way out of proportion, but its not about the climb, its about the rock, and its a sticky gray area because its all about judgement.
Anyone who really explores and finds new stuff, especially in san diego county, knows that most new lines have loose flakes, grit, lichen etc. that has to be removed. How judicious one is about cleaning a line is the crux of the biscuit. Do you climb it and let nature determine which flakes bear weight and which dont? Do you only take off that which a soft bristle brush will remove? A wire brush? The back of the brush? Use a screwdriver? A crowbar? It comes down to intent. I dont agree with removing a bunch of flakes just so you can solo or boulder a new route. When ego supersedes reason and humility then problems are inevitable. We should all have a light hand and remove only what is absolutely necessary. Its a judgement call, and we all rely on each other to have good judgement.
I went up and looked at the route and flakes in person, and have two observations. One is that the flakes didnt need to be removed. It left ugly dirt scars right between two existing lines, and the removal didnt create a very difficult or aesthetic climb. If the motive was to make it safe for soloing then why place a bolt? Curious choice.
On the flip side, this rock is covered in loose flakes, and in my book loose rock is poor quality rock. It should be expected that plenty more flakes will come off that rock as it gets climbed more. The lines look fun, but the rock is loose and flakey and its gonna break one way or another. It didnt take a crowbar, just a yank, so were not talking about wild eyed prying and chiseling.
Back to my main point. It is important that removing flakes not become general practice, because there are too many people who dont know a good flake from a bad one. Many loose flakes dont need to be removed and are the integral part of a route that might be 30 years old. Not all loose flakes break. The concern is trying to keep the lid on pandoras box, because once bad practices become the norm they are almost impossible to stop, and when the rock suffers, all clinbers suffer.
Vigilance against destructive practices requires calling each other out from time to time, but that can be done without accusations and animosity. If ones intentions are good they shouldnt mind explaining their actions without getting all defensive. But the inquisitor also should have a good attitude and ask without a bunch of bluster or intimidation. Give your bro the benefit of doubt and take it from there.
We are climbers. Lets act with the next guy in mind and be responsible. "Famous climber" is kind of an oxymoron. Whater fame one achieves in climbing is fleeting and recognized by a very tiny segment of the population. Its not worth damaging the environment for. Does that route need to be climbed so bad that its worth altering the rock to make it go? Good intentions, good attitude, respect and responsibility will go a long way toward solving the conflicts that will always be part of climbing.
We are all climbers therefore we are brothers and sisters. Peace
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
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[quote]I prefer Womanzanita.
Edit: there actually is such a plant. Ask Leavitt. It goes down easy.[quote]
hahahahahahahaha!
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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r
RG- It's actually just the opposite. There are so many holds, it's not even challenging.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 21, 2015 - 10:38pm PT
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The issues are legitimate, the posturing and ego's involved are not. But, we are San Diego, home of the turf wars.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 11:32pm PT
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There are turf wars everywhere new routes are being developed, san diego has no special claim to that. What we could do without are judgements based on second hand information.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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Sandstoner's a whimp. He only uses a screwdriver to pry off loose flakes, or is that oldschool? My gym teaches proper loose flake identification and removal techniques so I know what I'm doing.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:05am PT
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http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1010167/notes-on-San-Diego-rock-climbing
!!/!3/09, Ray OLson.
Mt. Woodson is the most well known and historic climbing
area in San Diego county. It has great access, sees lots of traffic
and enjoys the greatest concensus on difficulty.
In the 70's and into the 80's almost no one seemed to believe
we had anything harder than than 5.11. So many climbs at
Woodson remained undervalued for some time. But that began
to change and in my mind it changed fast when Jonny Woodward
came down and repeated one of the areas benchmark classics,
John Bachar's Driving South, giving it a grade of solid 5.12a.
Now, keep in mind, we had no internet, but word of the "new
grade" spread fast - it was news. Here was someone who knew
what they were talking about telling us that yeah, we had climbs
harder than 5.11!
That climb, as many of you know, was established as a ropeless
highball. Bachar's account of the "hideous bailouts" and "you
don't want to fall from up there" told to us right here on
Supertopo. So, yeah, its a good TR, lots of fun and maybe the
accomplishment of a personal goal - very cool. But, from one
standpoint, as a TR, you have not repeated it the way it done
on the FA. Maybe you get "points" for fewest TR rehearsals?
Mine was two, spread out over two years before a ropeless
send in 1984.
BTW, on a low hill west of Mother Grundy, I found another
even steeper and more buldging "Driving South". No highball
madness here, and since the jams are more positive, no harder
either, only .12a, plus the rock is a touch grainy, too. Just another
day out in the beautiful hills of my beloved San Diego backcounrty.
Kinda doubt its seen a second, but you never know. :-)
All the time I was using crow-bars and car jacks to back off 400lbs blocks to make safe my news est first accent, Trundle Bunny 5.4= a little gritty ,= Chains at the Belay, 75 feet.Stop at ledge
nohandsolo doesn't go to the top.
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Friend
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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I'm glad to see the brouhaha regarding “the Martian Chronicles” has died down a bit. I avoided comment both because I felt I was being baited and because I know nothing about the climb. From the sound of it, it’s not the kind of thing that would grab my attention, even if I walked right underneath it, which maybe I did. Did I? I honestly have no idea.
Sanstone: I think your stream of cheap shots subtly and not-so-subtly accusing me of f*#king up your secret area was petty and vindictive, not to mention inaccurate. But I’m not trying to be sarcastic when I say NO WORRIES, BRO. That’s life on the internet. I’m fine with that.
I went up there for a morning hike a few months ago to warm up for a project on the main hill. FWIW, I was solo, no pad, no rope, no bolts, no beanie, no ipod. Although I’m friends with many of the readers/contributors to this thread, and although several of them wandered up there this spring, I don’t think there was any communication or organized conspiracy to do so. For my part, I honestly hoped that posting a couple of very discrete videos (no directions, no giveaway landmarks, and super generic – even misleading – titles like “Woodson finger crack”) might open a line of communication with locals, if they chose. Maybe they’d be stoked on my clips, maybe they’d politely ask me to remove them or mark them Private. That was my hope and the spirit of my posts. I could see someone had put some work into maintaining a trail. I also saw some pretty obvious glue reinforcement right next to said trail. I wasn’t expecting that, wasn’t looking for it, and certainly didn’t take any pictures to stir sh#t up on the internet. Did my eyes deceive me? I try hard to avoid confrontation unless someone is standing right in front of me, so if I’m wrong please correct me and I will apologize and edit this post. But since you’ve come out of hiding and know the area better than anyone – and since you chose this forum rather than PM’ing me – please fill us in on this. I just can’t reconcile how upset you are about Johan’s well-intentioned actions, but not about someone going up there and gluing. Was it you? What’s the story there?
I find it ironic that in the same breath that you rail against others for their unchecked egos and lack of soul, you tell us that your name for the Laverne & Shirley area is “Cerro Terre.” I’ve gotta be missing something here. It sounds like you’ve taken the liberty of naming the place after yourself? How does that fit with all the claims of egotism?
Re. videos, of course I am conflicted about the ego angle. I’m not going to defend myself other than to say, the positive response from friends new and old has been overwhelming and inspiring. Thanks people. Sanstone, whether the clips I made at “your” area remain visible to the public or not does not matter to me in the slightest. If you’d like me to make them private or if you have named them and want me to use your names, by all means let me know and I’m more than happy to go with that. Makes no difference to me.
Cheers
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plasticmullet
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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Friend, I really enjoy your videos and your vibe. Makes me wish I still bouldered and in doing so had you as a frequent partner. Send!
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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Gno-ideawhatthefu4ckhe'stalkingabout is a complete f'ing ahole.
Do you even climb you piece of sh$t?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
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Here is the actual post (Blitzo memorial thread) where Gno-ideawhathe'ssayin grabbed the photo from which he back edited comments on also. You fwad.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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Come on up to Suicide Gno-thing POS. Or if you like Tahquitz, you can help me work on freeing the Happy Hooker.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 27, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
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SO Kinda of you to care! I am glad that I was able to get your attention.
Now that you have Made It yours again you can have it back.
This is the vibe we prowled around with [Click to View YouTube Video]not the harder Slayer, set that would follow a few years later, and pulled down twice as hard as the decade before, and so it goes, over and over ..
This is an old song done well the all important thing is to be able to return to a fun place that is not torn down.
Now I am all for cleanining and spraying about what a great climb or sixteen moves you found that you just sent. Good for you. I am sure that It is yours , all yours, thnx for all the work and chalk that you have contributed.
The quote from Ray Olson, was to highlight that this is an old and often revisited debate.
The Number One Rule Is Don't wreck the place,
(The f- bomb, dude. DON" PHUK THE PLACE UP)
I am a long time shadow of my former self but I care what happened back in the day
And I still care today I am all for climbing In any style that blows your hair back.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I was serious about aggressive cleaning! good for sight in many ways,
if the climb teaches more as is, with moves that reward the skilled and bold ,
but give puase to all due to the over all serious nature of the entire experience,
leave it be to teach the lessons it has to share.
climb past as lightly as possible, "DancePast Flakes" (loose, 5.9+ R)
,No One wants holds snaping under full yard on- press to match toe to thumb stand up,
If you want
to pry and hammer off flexing flakes find a quarry or rock that has no history.
Get down in the weeds with you?
not gonna change a thing.
You will do whatever you want that is clear from what you have to say about what you do.
I don't care what you do or think We are not all that unalike as I have said . When I see myself in uglyness I like to point it out.
BUDUM, DUH BUMP, you know the drum stroke to emphasize
A bad joke ,
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crøtch
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
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Recent posts are a sad departure from the stoke levels seen on this and previous Woodson 20XX threads.
Here's some of my homies getting down amongst the trees and boulders.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 27, 2015 - 05:21pm PT
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More climbing less wanking.
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Friend
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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Ha, nice posts guys. Plasticmullet, thanks man. Drop me a line if you get the jones to climb. I’m sure we have some mutual friends.
Right on KW. "Yohanistan" made me laugh out loud, I do hope that name can be used somewhere, sometime.
Cerro Terry definitely has a ring to it and sounds like a well-deserved name. It was more the context of it in the above posts that made me wonder.
More climbing is right. Unfortunately it looks too hot for me this weekend so it’s gonna be nothing but slander and lies from me until temps cooperate.
Cheers all.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 27, 2015 - 11:49pm PT
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Oh for f*#ks sake. Gnome person, you care about how things were "back in the day?" What's back in the day for you? 1983?! bwahahhahah!
Sand person, since when the f*#k is West Ridge a "secret area?" And "Cerro Torre?" wtf? Goddamn it who the f*#k are you spraying wannabes?
I have seen this exact same dipshit woodson newbie piss-match cycle so many times in the last 45 years I've lost count.
Andrew and John deserve full respect. But this muthaf*#king bitchfest ain't over until I, the american legend and last of the real-deal woodsonites, motherf*#king say it's motherf*#king over!
bitches don't know.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 28, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
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Thought this horse was dead, but I guess it's still twitching. Must say I've gotten some legit laughs off this thread, even if I started out seething. Like KW said, those guys came up with the Cerro Terre thing, not me. I just call it "The Boulders". One thing that is hard to fathom from this thread is how few people have gone up there over the years. I'll address a couple things for Friend and hopefully this subject is over.
1) Compliments on your climbing ability and current fitness level.
2) Your discretion on naming spots did not go unnoticed.
3) If not for the damage on the arête, I would have never posted anything.
4) Last week I saw a 4.5 Red at the base of the Woodson crack.( For real)
5) The name of the " Weed" crack is "The Tennis Raquet Crack" established by myself and Steve Belford circa "82.
6) I have no name for the Woodson crack as I'm sure someone did it long before me.
7) I'm aware of about 4 places on the hill where epoxy has been used by me on the hill. I stand by those reinforcements. They are subtle and would be surprised if anybody would even notice. Certainly not walking by as you desribe. However, if you see something that represents an ethical violation feel free to Yo-Hawnn it off.
8) As far as yanking the vid, your call.
In the end, my "allegations", were not petty or cheap, they were accurate. You were on the hill within 100 yards of the damage during the same week. The perpetrator was accused and he confessed. And at least he was Yo-Honnest!
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Mar 29, 2015 - 02:15pm PT
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Oh Boy...Here we go again! "Gluing is OK"?
How hard are the climbs that have been "glue reinforced"?
Is it possible that the next generation may "send it" at 5.16?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 29, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
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I know Rick, right? Ethics creep. If a hold snaps, so be it.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 29, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Glue this, ya big fat dicksmokers.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 29, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
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EDIT: Just thought of something.
Since we're gluing, can't we just glue those flakes back on that got plucked off?
There are actually two holds where that would be appropriate.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 29, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
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And it sounds like you'd have no compunction about doing it. Poor form, broheim.
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
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Since we'er gluing,can't we just glue those flakes that got plucked off? I would have to say NO!!!! You had your chance.
you can not repair you're lack of technic to pull it off! YOU broke it!
you had your chance...leave it for someone else...and move on.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
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How hard are the climbs that have been "glue reinforced"?
5-10
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
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How hard are the climbs being "glue reinforced"?
Answer: "5.10"...This is exactly my point.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
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Damn son. I thought we were talking about...well, something more than 5.10 choss heaps. Dropped my smoke in my coffee when I read that.
Just makes the whole deal that much worse.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Sanstone, its good that you stand behind your actions, but gluing, even the most careful, craftsman-like gluing is a bad thing. Its altering the rock. Rather than find solid rock to climb we bend nature to suit our needs? I know from experience that it sucks when you find a awesome new line and a crucial hold comes off, but that doesnt mean you should glue it back on. If everyone did that then there would be glue patches all over the place.
The argument for unethical behavior is often "but i know what im doing". Maybe, but you are opening the door for a whole lot of people that dont know what they are doing. There cant be an elite that has special priveleges, one set of rules applies to everyone. If Johnny Gymrat comes up and sees a bunch of glue reinforced flakes then whats to stop him from gluing flakes to blank faces to make his own routes? How do you explain to him that this type of gluing is ok but that is not?
The sport is being rocked by legions of gym climbers who have no idea whats right and whats wrong, and they are going to take their cue from what they see. The best chance we have of preventing the spread of bad practices like gluing is to not do it, not condone it and not justify it.
You were railing against people who are resorting to unethical and detrimental means to bag as many routes as they can. If a hold breaks and makes the line unclimbable then its no longer a route. Time to find something else. Gluing it up just so you can have another route is different from what they are doing in what way?
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Yes...nice 2 cents Ron!
" If Johnny Gymrat comes up and sees a bunch of glue reinforced flakes then whats to stop him from gluing flakes to blank faces to make his own routes? How do you explain to him that this type of gluing is ok but that is not?"
Couldn't of said it better!
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Quote HThe sport is being rocked by legions of gym climbers who have no idea whats right and whats wrong, and they are going to take their cue from what they see. The best chance we have of preventing the spread of bad practices like gluing is to not do it, not condone it and not justify it.ere
100% correct.
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Thank you Sanstone.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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May 31, 2015 - 12:51am PT
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Whoa, Terry is on supertopo?!!! I miss your company Terry, and I mean that...lot's of fond memories. And hey, don't give me any credit, nor include me in any list of notables on Woodson, for I've always been a tag-a-long since day one. I've always followed in the footsteps of other's accomplishments and enjoyed their efforts. I've never placed a bolt, established any first ascents, nor done much trail work. I'm just a cheap customer enjoying a free ride, thanks to you all.
As far as making mention of "The Boulders," as you always referred to them as when you persistently wanted to take me up there (lol), here on ST, I did that purposely because of the awesome memories that I had from the few tours that you gave me up there, and wanted someone else to get the opportunity that I did. I knew how sensitive you were about them, but I guess I just couldn't keep my mouth shut any longer, now that I've decided to step away from the sport...yep, I think I'm done...I think. If you recall our conversations way back when, my stance was that, even if your area was brought to light, because of the relative obscurity of the area, the population of climbers would be kept to a minimum, thus wear and tear as well. As far as what happened already, I guess I would be partially to blame for that. Btw, is that "Chronicles" face the one you had me rap off the one "bomber" bolt at the top, and I kept giving you excuses as to why it wasn't safe, or was that another? If it was, all I can remember is how EXCELLENT it was after I did it! And what was the other south facing, dark colored face that had a, what was it, one bolt runout lead on it, 5.10d was it? Holy moly, remember how stoked I was after that?! This excitement was what I lived for when climbing. It wasn't the hard work like you, and others on here, have done, are doing, and will do for climbing in the future. Praise God for you guys!
"Cerro Terry"...lol, that made me smile.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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May 31, 2015 - 01:09am PT
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Is that Tennis Racket still there in the crack? Man that thing is hard!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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May 31, 2015 - 01:34am PT
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Just for a bit of perspective: do we all acknowledge that "The Fake Eppulator" aka "The Cave Problem" is THE most popular boulder problem on the hill?
Um, NO! The "most popular"? How about The Practice Boulders, Sunday Afternoon Boulder, IHMT boulder, Black Finger, Elephant Trunk, Seminar Wall, Longs Cracks, Painted Boulder, Robbins Boulder, Lemon Chiffon, Uncertainty boulder, Driving South, Pick Pocket, Blasted Rock #2, Baby Robbins, Jaws, etc., etc.,? Did you note that on most of those a rope is needed? Woodson is NOT a "pad" area! Sure, they are part of many a climbers repetoire these days, but they won't do much good on most of what Woodson is "popular" for.
Edit: or were you differentiating "boulder problem" from TR? Sorry, now it's my turn to have the "know it all geezer mentality"...thanks Ron!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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May 31, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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I was just re-reading the "Sanstone Chronicles" and realized something:
If someone had said, "Has anyone checked out the ridge south of Woodson that heads east from Laverne and Shirley?" and I was the one who read it and decided to head up there and check it out, I'd have approached it the same way I always have since I was introduced to climbing in 1981. I'd have packed up my pack and started the recon process of finding out where this place was. Then once I found it (probably weeks later, for I'm historically lazy), I would scope out faces, cracks, etc., you guys know the drill (the "routine" not the drill bit...okay, some are you are familiar with the drill bit), and then figure out access to the top of the boulders and see if there are any established bolts on top. Remember, I'm looking for "freebies," the stuff that already has anchors and ropes, and chalk marks on them! If I didn't find any bolts, I'd be looking at how to set up natural anchors so I could toprope the problems. Speaking of, how come nobody brings up anchor building anymore? That was a craft that my mentor, Roger Barnes, instilled in me back in the day. Seriously, come on, most of you guys (most) know what I'm talking about, sometimes having to string MANY feet of chord/rope from a chockstone/tree/crack, sometimes up and over the top of the boulder and adjusting it just so, so that it is equalized and hanging properly over the top, making sure the biners gates are reversed, etc., etc. Maybe I was ASSUMING that others went about it the same way, and if so, events would have turned out different. Again, sorry about that Terry.
As far as your statement, " I have no interest in keeping people from enjoying the area," haha, yes you do/did, you selfish surfer you, lol! Relax Guy hit that one on the head, "surfer-like territorial grumpiness that unfortunately plagues too many of us." Were you already aware that Terry was a surfer?
Hey, how's your wife Terry? Tell her I said "Hi"... and how's your dog, is he still around?
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Friend
climber
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RG: There was a misprint in the old guide. When you get the turnoff to Laverne, you actually want to turn RIGHT and plunge directly through the undergrowth. The going is a little rough at first, but don't give up. Head due south for roughly a mile, then take a hard right at the bent tree trunk near a stump. When you get to the snake hole with the two pine cones sitting by the entrance, you are getting really close. Bear 20 deg ESE and go straight up hill for 3/4 mi. There's no trail for this last bit, and a fair bit of poison oak, but it's well worth it. It's easily the finest hand crack in SD county, if not So cal entirely.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I'm liking the looks of those cracks!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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When you get the turnoff to Laverne, you actually want to turn RIGHT and plunge directly through the undergrowth. The going is a little rough at first, but don't give up. Head due south for roughly a mile, then take a hard right at the bent tree trunk near a stump. When you get to the snake hole with the two pine cones sitting by the entrance, you are getting really close. Bear 20 deg ESE and go straight up hill for 3/4 mi.
Friend. You had me lmao on this discription on how to find that hand crack. Hope nobody removes one of the pine cones, or we'll never find it. Still, I'm thinking we could find it after I buy a bottle of TechNu.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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If my memory serves me correct, that tennis racket is/was buried in near the top, almost as if it's tempting you to grab it while you're in the most desperate, off-fist section of the crack...that thing sucks!
That 5.9 slant crack you speak of is right on/off the road just back west a few steps down 67 from the trail to "Cerro Terre." Or maybe it's just up the road? It's there close by. Myself, Ken Klis, and Yoshi (Japanese friend visiting Ken at the time), did it back in '84-85ish? Apparently there wasn't too many cracks back in Japan where Yosh was from and he didn't have any crack skills. I recall Yoshi struggling on it and in desperation started lay backing. Ken immediately started barking,"Must jam clack Yoshi, must jam clack!" And Yoshi would grunt back, "Can't jam clack, must ray back!" Lol, but anyhow, it's nestled in the trees there right off the road. My goodness...I just realized that Friend is on the darn thing in the photo!!! Honestly, I didn't recognize it being that open! Awesome Friend, thanks for a blast from the past!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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The crack on the back of Tennis Racket? It's been 30 years, I have no recollection, and I don't recall trying any others after getting hammered on TRC. Btw, are you taking the somewhat "jungle" direct approach below, then up to Laverne? Cause if you are, that 5.9 crack is definitely back down 67 on the left.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Speaking of splitters...Friend, dial this one in and get a video...always heard it's been third classed!
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Friend
climber
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Mother superior landing zone looks pretty suboptimal for bouldering to me! ! Who has bouldered that one?
Edit paging bvb
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Again, if my memory serves me correct, Mike Paul, didn't you tell me you third classed the left variation? I never wired the left, which is suppose to be the easier (11b/c) of the two. As far as the landing? The back slab is your Friend for pretty much the whole climb. I always wondered if I could stop myself using the two walls, had I came off at any point...similar to Jaws but even friendlier? I wouldn't doubt if Piggot solo'd it, as well as others. How about Bedford, did he? I'm sure someone will chime in.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Mother superior landing zone looks pretty suboptimal for bouldering to me!
Since pads weren't thought of yet, but rather a scrap piece of carpet to wipe your feet prior to leaving the ground, falling was what you were suppose to be avoiding when climbing. Therefore, making the decision to do a problem unroped took a LOT of mental preparation. Ask Honnold, he'll give you all the beta, lol!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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To my knowledge MS never got soloed. However, I have been wrong before.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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I was walking down Woodson one evening and after running into M. Paul, we stopped to look at M.S. I could swear he told me then that he did the left variation unroped...I could be wrong too. And, I believe that was the same night that, after asking about his accident in Josh, he told me that his climbing actually got stronger after losing his finger. To feel somewhat worthy, I told him I finally bouldered IHMT, and asked if he could give me a spot when we got down to the bottom of the mountain. He obliged and then did the same right after me. Too cool!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Jun 18, 2015 - 03:30pm PT
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i never heard of mother superior being soloed, greg cameron would be the most likely suspect if it has. Thats mighty big talk there, relax.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jun 26, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
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Is the asphalt melting up there yet?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Piggot soloed MS for Ron Kauk prior to the '86 contest when Kauk said, "I think I'll take a rope."
I recall trading pants with Jeff Almadovar and wore his Levis, then succeeded on MS at the contest. I was told by the judge that I was the second person, after Kauk, to try it that morning. Pretty memorable seeing that I got my knee stuck the last I tried it!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Just found a post I made on Mountainproject back in 2007:
"The left branch of MS goes at 5.11b. True Story: Back in the early 80's I saw a guy highball this variation drunk at sundown almost in the dark! I have no idea who this wrap around glasses character was!"
I associated this faint memory with Mike Paul but, obviously, I was mistaken.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 18, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
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Thunderstorms is right. Mean and nasty. Scary.
Found some dry slab underneath a house-sized boulder.
Beat a hasty retreat once the rain went heavy and the Lightning started.Still worth the long drive.
Didn't see any " locals" Lol
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 18, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
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Hey Burch , good on you man
could you believe those thunder strikes ?
As a dog lover myself I commend you.
Peace
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 19, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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Good work Burch3y! Storing up some goooood karma for future Alpine adventures for sure. Dog was just out wandering, huh?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Jul 31, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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KILLER photo of Digits Delight!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Puts me in a chopping mood.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the east coast, for now.
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*sigh* .......seems an eternity has gone by since I last climbed there. I miss Woodson like crazy.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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GONZO CHEMIST! (Two ' * 'in a row for bold type)
sigh .......seems an eternity has gone by since I last climbed there. I miss Woodson like crazy.
Yeah Me too I miss the small rock Paradise, and know the difference between heaven and Hell
HEY,
I have to tell some one so here is the perfect chance: the Cliff off Diamond Hill road in Berklley heights NJ;
WATCHUNG HAS BOLTED ANCHORS !
AFTER 50 years since the last ones, Great Job and thank you! I will keep it a secret too.
It was Long overdue. Now If it were Legal to climb there some one could run a school out of the gym.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Has that old TR in the PO area right next to the road that was bolted gotten the chop yet?
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Aug 10, 2015 - 04:16am PT
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There were there the last time I visited in June. I'd guess that they still are.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 10, 2015 - 11:35pm PT
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There's cliffs in Berkley Heights, NJ?! Message me!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 10, 2015 - 11:44pm PT
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What climb are they at (no help from the peanut gallery)?
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Aug 11, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
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Nice Off White picture there, thanks for posting it.
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Friend
climber
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Aug 11, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
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Really, we're meant to know what boulder they're looking at, just by the manzanita in the background? This takes "name that climb" to a whole nother level.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 11, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
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Friend, if you're a true Woodson local, yes, you can id a climb just by the surrounding foilage, rocks in the landing zone (oh, that's right, pads cover those ankle busters now), and background landscapes. Come on, what crack (hint) do you stand back to figure out the sequence at, with manzanita behind and to your left?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 11, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
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...and this one:
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Mexican Blanket
climber
Eastside
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Aug 11, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
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California night and go w/ the flow
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 11, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
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Yup was going to say Cali night :D
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Friend
climber
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:02am PT
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Shoot. You mean to tell me, in addition to the hundreds of fingerlock and hand jam flashcards which I review nightly, I’m also accountable for knowing leaves, branches and landing zones? Being a Woodson local hopeful is not an easy quest.
Cali Night has to be one of the sweetest problems anywhere. It’s got such a smooth, natural, flowing sequence.... until you get to the lip and realize your hands are crossed up. What a kickass little brain teaser.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Cardiff By Sea
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Aug 12, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
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The bolts on that face climb to the right of Hamburger crack on Woodson was put up by me and a friend. This, so called, climb is not in any guide book so it, was as far as us, a good nice 5.10 lead for all the great climbers. It is well worth doing and very good pro. We call it R-n-R. I defy anyone sane to try it and not really like it.I don't like that John Weinberg is calling on people to chop this route. He has no right. This route is not in any guide book and many people are now liking it as a great lead.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 12, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
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??? "...face climb to the right of Hamburger Crack"??? Uh, that face is only, what, ten feet high? There must be another boulder I'm not picturing...and it's a bolted lead?! The Big Grunt boulder is the only boulder large enough that I can think of.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 12, 2015 - 07:06pm PT
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Burch, what part of Woodson is that crack found?
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Mexican Blanket
climber
Eastside
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Aug 12, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
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Dihedral downhill from out of sight?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 12, 2015 - 08:29pm PT
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Cali' Night has a "smooth, natural, flowing sequence"?! Man, I'd have to differ on that statement...
If you go up to that on sight and approach it with a straight forward, natural sequence, it's guaranteed you'll be out of sync and more than likely bleeding, or at least missing some skin, not to mention failing on it! That thing, to me, is one of the most unnatural sequences up there.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 12, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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Friend, speaking of Go With The Flow, have you been on that...do you know where it is? Get on it if you haven't already! And, how about Werners Wish?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 12, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
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How about BVB on this one (not very many photos out there of this)?
Would love to see Friend crack this one, and a video to boot, even if it IS on TR! Wish I could recover the video I had of Ken Klis and I flailing on this. We'd get into about the same position as Bob is, then come flying out to take the 30+ foot swing out over the chapparal. Never got any further.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Cardiff By Sea
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Aug 12, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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R-n-R is a face on the same side as Hamburger Crack, just past up hill. Three bolts and a nice bolt anchor. There is also a crack to the right above some trees that is also nice. Try the bolted climb and you will not be disappointed. Great lead. Weinberg better stay away unless he wants to enjoy climbing it of course. I think if he gave it half a chance as a lead he might actually like what's there.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 12, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
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Rest day
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 12, 2015 - 10:46pm PT
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"Hey Gary, this guy 'Freind' kinda knows Woodson, if you catch my drift, so you might wanna throttle back, yard that foot outta your pie hole, and take a deep breath."
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 13, 2015 - 10:14am PT
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Friend, if you're a true Woodson local, yes, you can id a climb just by the surrounding foilage
Hey Friend!!! Hi, I'm Illusiondweller, uh, I mean Truthdweller, uh I mean Gary, and Jesus is my wingman so I'm cool! Are you cool? Have to seen Go With The Flow? Well? Have you tried it?! Huh have ya have ya? You should try it but it's hard to find, so you'll probably need a true local like me or my bff Chris Lindner to show you! HooooRah! 'murica!
Praise Jesus!! Your new true local BFF, Gary.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Arizona
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Aug 13, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
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The bolts on that face climb to the right of Hamburger crack on Woodson was put up by me and a friend. This, so called, climb is not in any guide book so it, was as far as us, a good nice 5.10 lead for all the great climbers. It is well worth doing and very good pro. We call it R-n-R. I defy anyone sane to try it and not really like it.I don't like that John Weinberg is calling on people to chop this route. He has no right. This route is not in any guide book and many people are now liking it as a great lead. I think if he gave it half a chance as a lead he might actually like what's there.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 13, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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You can add my name to that list, pal. It's WOODSON, not your local gym. WTF
Please don't tell me you're some knucklehead from AZ who just rolled up with a Hilti?!
I'm gonna name it P n' P -- Pulled and Patched.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 13, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
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I did the climb as a TR about four years ago from the single 3/8" bolt at the top of the steeper section. It was still there this Spring, along with the lead bolts and new anchors. All shining bright in the sun, not even painted to blend in. It is a nice 15 feet of slab but why not just put lead bolts on everything then. It needs to go away.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 13, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
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Sorry wrong state, I am from Encintas, Born in Arizona But spent most time here. for twenty eight years. Am very aware of the bolt wars but I am not out for problems just would like to offer good climbing for fair people. Incidentally there is a new bolt on the Mystery bolt rock and will definitely try it to see if it is good. Eric put the route up and I hope he is the one who put that extra bolt in. I have great respect for Eric Rhodes. He is fair and very respectful.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 13, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
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By the way that original bolt on R-N-R is an old rusted leaper. Not at all safe.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 14, 2015 - 12:53am PT
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Wow Bob, sometimes I wonder, I mean, I'm lost sometimes with your remarks. Is it the multiple posts, or what is it? Posting here from Jersey is the closest I can get anymore to Woodson so, pictures and stories are sweet for me. I've seen many of Friend's photos and videos so he is the first that came to mind after posting the guess that climb photos. I'm honestly asking if he's done or tried some of the probems...and, no, I dont know that "he kinda knows Woodson." Sorry, you lost me there. Did you not get the swag you were hoping to get at the 2010 after party, or is it the hypoxic irritability that's making you cranky?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 14, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
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Wow Bob, sometimes I wonder, I mean, I'm lost sometimes with your remarks.
Imagine my dismay.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 14, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
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The best way to solve this problem with R-N-R is to have a good number of climbers deicide in a vote. I think that if at least twenty or more climbers climb it in the next two weeks and rate it on: Protection, Direction, Challenge, Fun, etc. that that would be a good test on its purpose and wether or not John has a point. I see it as an opportunity to come together and be a voice.
To the left of the bolts I think is 10-A-B, and to the right maybe 10-C or11, but you decide.
Climb it in the next two weeks and post what you think. I think that rusted bolt on the lip is really intended as a directional. This I think is fair. You decide. Also climb it as a top rope and make a comment.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 14, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
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Pics or nothing happened.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 14, 2015 - 10:53pm PT
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I like on misty mornings how the toilet paper gets all moist and the air is thick with the scent of old poo.
Overhanging rocks are great for:
Boulder problems
shelter from rain
cozy poo places
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 14, 2015 - 11:15pm PT
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That was pre tinder rock
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 15, 2015 - 01:29am PT
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Vis-a-vis Woodson, Gary, this visual aid helps explain the difference between you and me.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 15, 2015 - 10:50am PT
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hypoxia...it has to be. Scary.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 15, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Aug 15, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
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Awesome, I love this shhit.
This is the most "Goin' Off" thread happening.
.....and yes, I hate Woodson.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 15, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
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Hold a post Bob
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 15, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
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Whatever, blue balls. For the 100th time Gary, I'm not gonna "hold" your "post" for you ya goddamn sexual pervert. Grab some $20's and go get a hoe like everybody else.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:47pm PT
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All your nonsense Bob because I want to see some climbing photos of someone doing some classic problems up at Woodson. Care to correct me? I know you will.
Someone, post up some climbing photos quick, get this thread back on track!
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:49pm PT
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
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Name that climb:
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 16, 2015 - 03:59pm PT
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Name the climb and climber:
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 16, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
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Name the dick and smoker:
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 17, 2015 - 01:57am PT
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were these bolts on "R n R" placed on the lead? If not they are coming out and there aint jack anyone can do about it. There is an ethic pertaining to woodson climbing that began probably before you were born scatterguy, and its not about some old geezers wanting to ruin your fun, its about preserving the rock so that everyone can continue to enjoy it into the future. If this climb had a tr anchor why would you put in bolts? So you can have a 20 foot lead? If you want to lead then go to to idylwild or joshua tree or el cajon mountain even. There are miles and miles of untouched rock in the east county where you can put up your tiny leads and nobody will care, but not at woodson. Woodson is the pride of san diego climbing with a rich history of hard problems and hard climbers. You placed these bolts against the consensus, against the established ethic and in defiance of accepted practices, agreed uopn long ago and honored by generations of climbers since. What have you contributed to woodson? New routes? Trailwork, Exploration, anything? How much of the hill have you even seen? How many of the problems have you done? You have no standing. Hopefully you will accept that you were out of line and learn from your mistake, nobody likes a whiner. But how you take it is inconsequential, the bolts will come out and thats that. If this thing is allowed to stay then it will open the door to widespread degradation of the rock. You made a statement and should expect a counter statement. Nothing personal. If I end up being the one who removes your bolts then I will say so. Fair warning
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Friend
climber
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Aug 17, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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I kept hoping someone more eloquent than me would verbalize what I was thinking about that in-your-face bolting job. Voila, there it is. Thanks Ron, well said. +1 from me.
Scatterbrain, how many classic toprope problems are down at Woodson. A hundred? How many bolted leads are there? Like, three?
You coming on here and begging people to go do "your" climb, in an after-the-fact effort to get some consensus on whether it is good or not, totally misses the point. It doesn’t matter how good/fun it is. You are saying this climb is soooo fun and high quality that it deserves to be turned into a lead? It’s better than Stairway to Heaven and Go with the Flow? Really. Ask around first, before you drill, not after.
The consensus you’re looking for already exists and has for decades. Those bolts are glaringly obvious eyesores, right next to the road, and whether you’re buddies with Erik Roed (I assume that’s whose name you’re trying to drop by mentioning "Eric Rhodes"), or whether Clark Jacobs likes John Weinberg, has nothing to do with it. I guess saying Weinberg better stay away “or bad things will happen” is meant to sound threatening but really it just sounds lame.
These bolts, the new Mystery boulder bolt, the bolt on the Yoav Crack, bolts above the aid seam next to the Widow Bereft... WTF is going on down there? Who is so excited to drill bolts all over the place? You want consensus and community opinion, there’s mine. Leave the bolts at home people.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 17, 2015 - 10:04am PT
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Well said. I would never dream of bringing a bolt kit up to Woodson - a finite goddamn resource if ever there ever was one. Have your own experiences but let people have theirs... imagine rolling up to Seminar Wall and seeing lead bolts? Yuck.
I guess saying Weinberg better stay away “or bad things will happen” is meant to sound threatening but really it just sounds lame.
John is legit crazy. I wouldn't put that out there. lol.
;)
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 17, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
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imagine rolling up to Seminar Wall and seeing lead bolts? Yuck.
Imagine rolling up to Uncertainty and seeing lead bolts! That happened in the 80's and were promptly removed... never did get a chance to get on that, would have been pretty cool though.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA (stuck in Jersey)
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Aug 17, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
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Regarding the bolting ethics, here's a conversation between Dan Goodwin (Skyscraperman Dan) and John Bachar, taken from a tribute to John Bachar here on ST, that gives you an idea where this ethic comes from:
"“I thought you should know,” John said, “But I chopped Apollo.”
Apollo was an overhanging 5.12d /13.a I established after sending Equinox on the opposite side of the dirt road in Joshua Tree. At the crux, where the thin seams ends, I decided to place a bolt because I deemed the route unsafe after nearly hitting the deck when my wire stopper ripped while lunging for the flake.
“Why did you do that?” I asked.
“I chopped it because you placed the bolt on rappel.”
“But it was impossible to place the bolt on lead,” I responded in my defense.
“It doesn’t matter,” he said. “You know the rules. No bolting on rappel.”
“So how do you expect someone to lead it?”
“They can’t lead it now.”
“So you just rip the bolt out?” I remembered how difficult it was to place on rappel.
“Yup.”
I was hoping his actions didn’t scar the rock. “Did you do the route?”
John nodded. “On top rope.”
“What did you think?”
“It was a killer route. Thought it was closer to 5.12d than 5.13a.”
“That’s because you did it on top rope,” I replied. “You can’t compare the two.” Even with the bolt, the crux move was pretty intimidating.
“True. But you know the rules.”
But even placing bolts on lead doesn't jive at Woodson... well, that's even up for discussion.
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herethewholetime
Trad climber
Socal
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Aug 17, 2015 - 10:21pm PT
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I usually don`t post but thought I would throw a few things out there. First off Scattergun did not put the route up I did. He showed me the route and we thought it would be fun as a lead. Neither of us could find it online or in any guide books. In the past couple decades that friend of mine and I have climbed at Woodson and neither of us knew it was a line that went. It was put in ground up. A good friend of mine belayed me. I put the anchor bolt far back so others could use them for the crack and center of the face. The route has been up going onto 2 years. So far I have only heard good things about this route till John started crying about it. Claims he tried it off of the old rusted leaper hanger a few years ago. I would love to watch him do it, that thing probably could not support his body weight let alone his ego. As for John it seems whenever their is a problem his name comes up. He seems to like chopping other people's stuff, but it`s ok for him to bolt whatever he wants. Don`t worry I know where most of his bolt are ;) I recall a certain route at Suicide that got anchor bolts after all of these years for a certain someones convenience. Lets not forget he removed the pins from Etude, or the hanger from Sundance. Oh wait I didn`t do it but know who did (wink wink). I know of more should I go on? As far as his friends backing him they are just doing what friends do. A dark cloud always seems to follow where ever this climber goes.
As far as the bolts on the face by POA, GCS, or Yoav they are not mine. Although the one on Yoav is great for keeping the rope out of the crack, but hate to break the news to everyone it`s been there for a while. It has been there for just over a year before the route got posted on mountainproject.
Just wanted to get a few facts straight. Do whatever your going to do because your going to do it anyways. Just remember in the end the rock pays. Please don`t pm me or write posts to me. I normally don`t the forum this stuff because I think it can be toxic. I like to come on Supertopo from time to time to see what I love....climbing.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 17, 2015 - 10:48pm PT
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But even placing bolts on lead doesn't jive at Woodson... well, that's even up for discussion.
Actually, no, for the most part it is not up for discussion.
Gary, fishing for approval to bolt Uncertainty back in 2009:
I need some feedback on this...a ground up bolting of this route...what do you think Poway Mountain Boys? It was rap bolted by Troy and Marty then pulled shortly thereafter back in the 90's. This is such a classic line and I've always thought it would maintain that status if it was bolted. Would it see any more traffic than what it already sees if bolted? Next question: hand or power drill?
Piggot hooked and hand drilled Phd. I'm feeling I should follow his lead?
I was there when it was beimg bolted and thought, "its about time!". I could mark the key holds and avoid hooking on them I suppose. Then again, if I rap bolt is someone going to run up there and pull them again?
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Friend
climber
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Aug 18, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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I disagree with the idea that people are just jumping on someone's bandwagon. People are entitled to their own opinion, and if they coincide, that should tell you something.
Bob I looked up the thread you quoted. I either missed it or forgot about it. An entertaining discussion, and germane to the current topic...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1032254/Uncertainty-Principle-Mt-Woodson
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
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I am not on the hill about every day like i used to be or i would have seen and removed the bolts in question long ago. I just heard about it, went and looked at it, and have talked it over with others who, like myself, have climbed at woodson for decades, and all agree that the bolts cant remain.
It is true that the rock suffers, so its unfortunate that the bolts were put in to begin with. Im honestly not doing it to be a dick, the bolts cant stay because they set a bad precedent, and stuff like this gets out of hand in a hurry. If those bolts are left there and given tacit approval what happens when someone decides to make painted boulder a lead? How can we say those bolts are ok but the ones you placed on painted boulder arent?
But lets step back from our climbers quarrel for a second and look at the bigger picture.
The majority of visitors to woodson are non climbers, and we as climbers have no special right to the rocks. Its bad enough that others have to see our chalk all over the holds, but at least it can be argued that chalk washes off. If we install hardware all over the rocks and in plain sight, people are going to start complaining, and if the issue of environmental and aesthetic degradation caused by climbers comes under examination it could result in a climbing ban.
Most of the bolts on woodson are pretty well hidden from view, and we would do well to keep our visible impact minimal, both as a courtesy to others and for our own good. There are arguments for and against the bolts (although one of them isnt how long they have been there), but the overriding factor in my opinion is that its way too visible. The anchor hardware is overkill too. Two bolts is plenty, the rest is an eyesore.
Ya the veiled threat is funny. Go ahead and threaten me, but do it to my face. Just be willing to accept the consequences if you do. But this can be settled peacefully and without a bunch of bluster. To escalate it to physical violence would be ridiculous, so lets not go there.
The bolter may not have realized that placing these bolts would be such a big deal to so many people, or that such a strong local ethic exists, we all make mistakes. Now knowing the level of disapproval, the gentlemanly thing to do would be for him to remove the bolts himself.
They are coming out no matter what, so why not make it right and do it yourself? It would be a class thing to do, and im sure earn a lot of respect for your intentions. Know that its nothing personal. I apologize in advance, but I speak for many when i say that it is necessary. Peace
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
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Dont know how many people are aware of it, but a guy named Ed Worsman rap bolted uncertainty principle in 92. Greg Epperson carefully removed the bolts and patched the holes so well that not a trace of the bolting could be seen. Greg and I had talked about it, and I knew he was going to do it, but after he did he asked me what he should do with the hangers. We decided they should be returned to the owner, so i called Ed and had a nice talk with him. He wasnt happy but understood. I told him he could have his hangers back or he could donate them and i would make sure that every one of them found a good home on the hill. Ed gave me the hangers and thereby turned his gaffe into a public service. Those hangers are still in use today, on top of tower 1, tower 2, the control tower the vomitorium and elsewhere. Bad things can have a good ending when we work together
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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Ron, is it the same route that was one of the TR's in the 1989 contest?
I remember that because I had only completed 9 routes and needed one more at the end of the day.
Or maybe it is the TR I knew as Angel in Flight. so-called because we threw a rope on it once in the 80s and floated up. I only remember the "name" and it was some slab along the road in that area.
I have no idea what the anchor was, but One other factor to consider is the approach to some routes might cause erosion, which wouldn't be caused by leading right off the road.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
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the bolted slab
the bolts
you guys that never climbed on 1/4" bolts are crazy, that leeper rig is bombproof
definately safer but overdone and unsightly. The anchor bolts stay, minus the extra steel. Good belay anchors are always welcome, but lets tone it down some.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
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2-bolt "sport" route, or boulder problem? We report, you decide.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 18, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
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Splater, i competed in 89 and selected most of the routes and ran the contest in 92. I know it wasnt in my contest, in 89 i only went that high on the hill to zero on airstream, lol, so not sure if that route was in the comp or not. I was covering the 89 contest for rock and ice from a competitors point of view, but did so lousy i had to turn it into a humor piece. Ah days of glory, lol
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 18, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
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That was March '85, ya old geezer!
On another note: 3 bolt, 1 TCU sport route, or boulder problem?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Aug 18, 2015 - 11:55pm PT
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^^^ which finish do you crazies do?
and what does Alcoa mean?
and how can I cheat right Stairway without the old cheatstones?
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 19, 2015 - 12:18am PT
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whoa herethewholetime, just because a line isnt in a guide does not mean that it has not been climbed. Anything that close to the road and that accessible has been climbed. Did you put in the 1/4" bolt and leeper hanger?
While I was tooling around the summit of that thing the other day it seemed very familiar. My memory is getting horrible, but Im pretty sure me and Allenby climbed all over that little slab on TR sometime back in the 80s. We used to carry 60 feet of 11mm rope to set up a TR on "anchorless" climbs. We also inspected every facet of every piece of rock up and down boulder row, as have dozens, if not hundreds of other climbers. No way that slab gets overlooked.
Anything accessible at woodson has been climbed. The only way you can claim an FA is if you had to to do significant clearing to access it, if there were loose flakes that would have been pulled off if it had been climbed, or if it had potato chip, ball bearing or lichen covered surface that had to be cleaned to make it climbable.
Do you see alot of woodson guides? What makes you think that every little thing that has been climbed is in a book somewhere? Back in the second wave of woodson development in the mid 80s, we were cutting trails to untouched boulders and doing literally hundreds of little problems that had never been climbed and we didnt list them in a guide, there was no guide other than brueckners little pamphlet until mike paul published his landmark 1985 guide.
After that i started adding stuff we and others were putting up to mikes guide. When development expanded beyond the scope of mikes topos, I used his format to make my own topos to document new routes. I ended up with hundreds of routes on those topos, which i figure was about 1/4 of the problems that had been done at that time.
Because it isnt in a guide in no way means that it has not been climbed. Your "FA" had probably been climbed dozens of times before you got to it.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 19, 2015 - 12:22am PT
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what was march 85 bob? my "championship bouldering" article in R&I? Told you my memory sucks, at least someone is keeping track of things....
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 19, 2015 - 12:24am PT
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Alcoa was once the biggest producer of aluminum cans in the world. It is an acronym for "aluminum company of america"
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 19, 2015 - 01:25am PT
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Yep, ya addled old pork belly, you wrote that article for R&I in '85, for the March comp that good old Carmel "Double D" Schimmel set up. You were R&I's SoCal correspondent at the time. (Ringing any bells yet, gramps?) Good times! I zeroed on Driving South, with Werner belaying! ACK!! Chokemaster Bobo, they call me. Halcyon days.....
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Friend
climber
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Aug 19, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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I'll be darned, photographic evidence. That pile of cheater stones was the standard start for Stairway to Heaven BITD?? Say it ain't so.
There is a real obvious sequence from the ground, starting next to Alcoa with a sloping right handhold and a low left. It’s by far the hardest move on the climb, but doesn’t change the grade any... still 5.11c.
Edit: how many finishes does Alcoa have?? I've only ever done it via a desperate, wing and a prayer dyno.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 19, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
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If people leave this route alone I will refrain from any more Bolting unless you tell me what is needed. Promise!!!!!
Nobody sees this climb with bolts who is not a climber. the general public sees only an hour wait on Potato Chip Rock let's be real. Climbers have changing opinions no one climber has the real true sense nor the exact method of requesting this. And if you think your right maybe your not including me ok. In my heart of hearts we only wanted to give a cool and great moment for any climber who wanted a challenge, even if short. I and my friend's intent was all genuine, Maybe we were naive, but we still only wanted a good route for all. Anyway climb it, wether a lead or a top rope, it is a great climb.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 19, 2015 - 11:16pm PT
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scatter i dont doubt your intentions were good and im sure youre a good guy, but the bolts cant stay because it opens the door to more of the same.
Plus theres a sign down by the television screen that says its illegal to move anything or alter anything on the hill, as its designated open space parkland. Climbers have to be cool because there are very real access issues, and a climbing ban has been considered before. Lets not give anti climbers ammunition.
You can threaten to bolt elsewhere but that would be a really selfish and shortsighted thing to do. Just suck it up and learn from your mistake
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 20, 2015 - 03:03pm PT
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Here are a couple of PM's I received from Roger Anderson AKA Scattergun
If you take them out I might start chipping all of your routes. Etc. Remember You have a lot more to lose than I do. I could take out a lot of your routes and take out all of your bolts on Suicide and chip at will. So Go for it. If you think its worth it. Remember every action has responsibility. Like mine I know.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 20, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
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I'm done. You guys are just too unreasonable will not be posting any more. This is not how or why I ever intended this to end up. Oh well. In the mean time there are plenty of other bolts that need out also. Just remember the past is not always the best guide for how things should progress into the future. Anyway happy climbing.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 20, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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the ethic is what it is. What is unreasonable is for you to think that an exception should be made for you, scatter.
You are not the first person who has done something sketchy in a high visibility area thinking they can get a little "fame" on the cheap. You have to earn it. Retro bolting a tr problem that was probably first climbed before you were born....nuff said
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 20, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
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Last post: If you need a cheater stick you are an idiot, If you need a pile of stones for the first step you are an idiot, If you clearly need bolts on a route that is an only free solo, you are an idiot. If you need a bolt anchor on trad route you are an Idiot. If you cannot define pontificate you are an idiot. If you top rope on a rusted leaper your are a real idiot, and I invite any of you arm chair schmucks to meet me face to face. I am glad you know my name. Now f*#k off!!!!!!!!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 20, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
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kid sounds like a punk. they come along now and then. what an ass.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Aug 20, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
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Please yank those bolts and equip Baby Robbins, thanks.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 20, 2015 - 10:24pm PT
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Meanwhile, back in the 70's when Woodson was OG:
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 20, 2015 - 11:00pm PT
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Meanwhile back in the 70s, some wayrad honebot cranks the television screen in reverse, wearing EBs!
name the climb and bobs lifelong idol
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 20, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
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off topic....mid 80s bbq after a day of climbing on the la jolla cliffs. Bob can you name the old school san diego climbers in these pics?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 20, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
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From bottom, Clockwise:
Jocelyn, sitting in my lap
Rick in front of the Grille, the two left him I dunno
Across from Rick, know the name but drawing a blank
Mike Paul
Todd Trimble Peter Campos
Woman bending over in bikini ??
Debby and Dave?
Sharon Wason (in lawn chair)
Guy just to the right of me -- tip of my tongue. Moved to fort collins. Jim Something..?
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Allied Choppers Of San Diego
Gym climber
Mesa Rim Parking Lot
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Aug 22, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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Is this the same Roger that has been retro-bolting Dixon Lake and Mission Gorge?
I've been losing sleep over this guy.
Where does he get off threatening to chip classic routes?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 22, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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Retrobolting at the Gorge? What routes? I thought all the manliness had already been bolted into submission at that once-proud crag.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 22, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
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Everything is bolted at the gorge now, bob. Lead bolts on hangmans, a bunch of bolts on the wasp and everywhwere else. I was alerted to it when someone referred to mickey finn as a "2 bolt sport route" online. Me and Rick put up mickey finn in 78 as a tr. Its so short that it barely needs a rope.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 22, 2015 - 02:43pm PT
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Same with Alley Oop? With pads both of those things are boulder problems!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
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MOTHER-FU$KER, I was down in San DIego for a week last week visiting family. Yes, I knew it was there. I did nothing except swim in the ocean, drink beer, and watch carriers (usn#73 George Washington) come to port in Coronado.
Good time though.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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It's cool, Woodson is actually pretty lame. Wouldn't have made any sense why a half dozen boomers are threatening to punch each other over how to establish 12 foot slabs, but there's some good cracks to practice on...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
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I know, Greg, it's kinda like Castle Rock State Park up here, but our slabs go up to 30-40'. Still nice to get on the stone and work the moves.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
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Just playin' bro it's awesome :) So is castle rock!
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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Forget the bolts, think about saving the rock !!
Woodson, Gorge and else where.
I know bolts have a place, I've hand drilled many where appropriate.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Aug 22, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
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Re: La Jolla bbq, that might be Chuck Berry sitting next to BVB, looks like Judy at the grill. Maybe Roger the big blonde guy out of focus? And who is the f'n poser in the straw hat who looks like he fell out of a 6 inch high beach chair? Probably says a lot about his climbing (non) skills…
Oh, and are Todd and the Big Blonde having a 2 person circle jerk?
BH
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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BeeJay, you're close. The guy next to the Van Belles is Chuck berry, Judy parenio is at the grill, the blonde dude is Roger peck, the impossibly burly man in the hat is me, of course, talking to Linda peck and the girl in the bikini top is Shari (one of the triplets), which means John McManus is nearby, tho not in the pic. You musta been home knitting doilies that day. Or maybe you and Greg were throwing tr's at Santee, he's not in the pic either
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Aug 23, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
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Burch, yes it is. Around 40 years ago
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 23, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
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Tom Lindner, 1986
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
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bob....why?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 23, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
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Just 'cause I like that shot. Plus, I bet there's bolts there now.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:00pm PT
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Mount Everest Off Width, again
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:41pm PT
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RWA and REA climbing the mexican dinner mantle in a style so beautiful it makes me weep with joy
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
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a young michael paul takes 1st place in the jr division at the 1978
(i think) woodson stonemasters competition
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Friend
climber
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Aug 24, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 24, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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Woodson has some proud highballs, even by today's standards. Karl Mueller and I scoped that boulder when we were just breaking into 5.10's, always meant to go back but it was years later when I finally did...nice tick there, pardner!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 24, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
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Hey Illusiondweller, maybe you could give "Freind" some more locals only secret-handshake straight-from-the-mouth-of-christ beta? Looks to me there like he could benefit from your encyclopedic knowledge of Woodson.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 24, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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I will not be doing any chipping or ruining routes. I was just angry. I do not now or every believed in that. I will meet any one face to face in a real civil meeting with no extras.
Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes. I am open to that. I am not in it self aggrandizement because if we were we would have posted it on Mountain Project two years ago. Any one can talk to me and I will be open to discussing any opinions. By the way I will never chop a route. I might chop a bad bolt . I am not a punk and am not a young climber into fame. Everyone has a point and I mean that. I wish we could all just step back cool off (Sorry I know I also am responsible).
Roger
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 24, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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No worries roger, going off is understandable, and im sorry if i antagonized you, but I was also frustrated at your seeming unwillingness to accept that the need to keep the lid on this kind of bolting is more important than your need to make a cool little lead. There is a generation of gym climbers hitting the rocks who are going to take their cue as to whats appropriate from what they see. The visibility thing is also a concern, because its permanent alteration to the rock and that is prohibited. That doesnt mean no new bolts, it means bolting should be done very discretely and bolts as invisible as possible.
As a rule, only the first ascent party should ever place bolts on a route, and at woodson lead bolts, with a couple of historical exceptions, have only been placed on climbs of cutting edge difficulty. If you had dug that slab out of the brush, did the first ascent and bolted it on the lead, there might be a little grumbling, but nobody would chop the bolts because of the time and effort you put in, and because its out of sight out of mind.
I know you love this little slab and it probably is a fun lead, but you shouldnt have bolted it and they need to come out. If you take your hangers off and take the extra steel off the anchor i cant speak for anyone else, but i wont go any farther. If I have to remove the hardware I will give it back to you, but im going to pound lead into the bolt sockets to disable them. Fair compromise? Like i said im not trying to be a dick, im looking at the big picture. peace
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 08:36am PT
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Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes. I am open to that.
in my experience (climbing since 1969) climbing in an area extensively, meeting the local community and especially those active in FAs, learning what the local style is, and also getting a sense of what the possible future directions might be is the traditional path to creating new routes.
Formal rules and procedures do not seem to have worked over time.
Scattergun would seem to be engaging the community online, but would probably do better to be at Woodson and climbing with "the crew." Maybe he has, I don't know...
but it is strange to wake up and log on to find an email from him:
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
The message is:
Please climb R-n-R, Woodson Before its Chopped.
Sent by: Scattergun raamaestro@xxxxxx.yyy
I see his STForum email has been disabled... Whether or not I climb his route R-n-R seems beside the point, I'm not a local, and I doubt that my opinion would have much weight in a debate over what the Woodson local style and ethic is, or should be... I've climbed at Woodson, and know a lot of people who learned to climb there, and respect them, their climbing and the style they developed there.
I'm sure times are changing and the Woodson of old may become something entirely different in the future, but there is a lot to learn from the old ways.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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Wow you really don't get it do you scatterboy? Why is this so important to you? Do you see it as your little piece of glory on woodson? It doesn't come that cheap and easy. You leave me no choice.
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sd-nick
Trad climber
San Diego
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Aug 27, 2015 - 11:29am PT
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Those bolts are really an eyesore. At least couldve painted them. Hiking up the hill in the morning its impossible to miss the sun beaming off them. The only obvious bolts on the hill to hikers. BTW I did climb it, (at night with no light), (5.9). While an OK route, this is Woodson, and the bolts must go.
This is also the same dude who rebolted that arete down the hill from out of sight next to the sweet 5.7 dihedral. And left the old line of bolts there for months, (not sure if he ever went back to clean up his mess). And throw in the new unnecessary bolt on top of american express (west bullethole at santee)
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes.
Roger
Maybe a 'method' isn't necessary. Maybe things at Woodson are just fine the way they are (Well, aside from all the sh#t paper strewn climber paths).
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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Sheeesh. Just take the bolts out. That thing was climbed long before you bolted it.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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3000 woemn??? Are those like wookies? If you can defeat ISIS, all the rest is golden with me...
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Friend
climber
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Aug 27, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
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Jon Clark mugs for the camera. Phantom Crack, onsight free solo.
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dmr
Social climber
Carlsbad, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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I think this needs some splaining.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
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WTF. Is someone planning to haul that boulder off with a helicopter?!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
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you give a madman a gun and hes gonna kill somebody. These amateurs have no idea what they are doing.
Roger...no more bolts at woodson unless they are on your own route that you chopped a trail to. Everything accessible is just fine, so leave it all alone and have fun climbing like everyone else
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
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DMR where are those bolts?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 27, 2015 - 05:43pm PT
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He PM'd me. No reply, and I deleted it after reading it once. Too tired of trying to articulate Woodson's peculiar and much-respected history to kids who've never heard of Frank Sacherer or Bob Kamps. What we have here is a youngish UCSD college student recently relocated to San Diego from some climbing gym back east. Apparently his parents bought him a hammer drill, hoping to keep him off the drugs, and busy shooting entry-level three-bolt clips-ups onto random slabs that got bouldered 40 years ago as twilight warm-downs by the random drunken buffoons of that era (I'm looking at you, Ron Amick.) God forbid this Straight-Outta-Asshat baller ever discovers Star Face or Greg's Face or Prune Face, and on and on. Woodson never has and never will be a destination area for n00bs looking to randomly spray bolts across every 30' slab in sight.
Old and bitter? No, not one bit. My best days are long gone but I really dig watching the new local crews rolling though and understanding what they find, the context and history, and rising to the challenge. But I am totally unwilling to stand by and passively observe decades of pretty amazing history -- the foundation of Woodson's stout mental challenges, and a big part of its weird-ass allure -- get pissed on by ignorant asshats. So yes, every time we're burdened with yet another feeble-minded, uninformed vandal who naively aspires to paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa, I'm gonna pipe up.
Mike Paul and I, when we were just barely 5.10/5.11 climbers, would go up day after day after day with shoes, chalk, and water; maybe scroll a pinner or two of Fallbrook homegrown to lubricate the better angels of our ambition. No rope, no gear, no food, no pads...just a fire in our teenaged bellies, a pure and absolute passion for climbing those testpieces from a generation only four or five years removed from ours. Learned a shitload about life in '77 and '78, when we were both still to young to buy a beer. "The best of times" does not even describe the mid-week session in February '78 now known to us both as Big Wednesday.
Roger...no more bolts at Woodson unless they are on your own route that you chopped a trail to
Gotta disagree, Ron. That's a Pandora's box right there.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Aug 27, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
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Not a Woodson local, but have bouldered there a lot and Vato and Shawn use to take me there to wire some problems. Hope this place stays a BOULDER area. Those that put the problems up and set the ETHICS for the area should be respected for what they did in the past. If ya wanna bolt boulders, go find your area and have at it....RESPECT Woodson for what it has always has been....a boulderer's area.
RIP Shawn
Peace
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
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You can see Uncertianty Principal in the shot. I know the rock those are on. Hmmm, those are for TR'ing.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
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That was tossing the dog a bone bob-o that dude never broke a trail in his life and isnt gonna start. Its like giving you permission to move the moon, sounds gracious but aint happening. Ive busted a good mile of trail through virgin boulders in the past year and a half, i mean stuff so brushbound ive had to use a battery powered chainsaw at times, and its surprising the dearth of lines, let alone classics. Not many are as deeply engaged in the brush as i have been, and if i aint finding it then some drugstore cowboy who doesnt even own a brush saw sure aint.
But i defer to a little bubble of wisdom that somehow eminated from your sedentary self, and restate that.
Leave your f ucking drill at home unless you want that f ucking thing all the way up your azz. I dont care if it takes specialized equipment or surgical procedures, any more bolts and its going up your azz, and i have a dozen or more friends who are all burlier than you who will be glad to help me get the job done. Youre out voted and out numbered, you are wrong and you are really pushing it now.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
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Here I am making the first clip on the FA of the Bobby Brown Arete 5.11a(R)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 10:29pm PT
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Hey Burch, I thought the Boulder 13 crux was sneaking past the dogs at one of those houses you sorta walk through the backyard of on your way...
...when we went out there we bushwacked a whole lot, but basically it's another Woodson boulder problem, at night... I never saw a bolt but we didn't bring anything but a chock bag and shoes anyway...
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Aug 28, 2015 - 03:24am PT
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Boulder 13 can be accessed easily without having to risk dismemberment by guard dogs. However, for most suitors dismemberment will be carried out by the problem itself.
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BAMF
Trad climber
S,D, / Ca.
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Aug 28, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
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I pity the po fool who is desecrates my pristine Woodson
Granite! You must be some entitled punk to think you can
Walk into an established toprope..or lead area and without
Reverence to the history of the area or a local consensus...
Start welding in steel to my clean godly granite?
Now that your Violated Woodson Law...there's only one recourse
Sharing a cell with BAMF...my guess is your mommy didn't put a
Good lashing on you hindquarters from the box.
We will take care of that ....BAMF likes little cracker
Beaches....come serve your rightful masta...got a big surprise
For you!
Now take your ball and go home...sucka!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 28, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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The Knights Of The Chaparral Fortress will defend our virgin princess, to the death. They shall not pass Verdon!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 28, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
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Ah, Boulder 13. I did in that bouldering contest that Werner Landry set up in 1977 or '78. I think I've only done it once since and that was a year or so afterwards. I wonder how hard it would feel now? I've never seen it rated. It was given a 13 in the contest. Probably 5.11+.
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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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Aug 28, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
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13 means 13. 13 stack rocks and finish mantle to success, 5.6?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 28, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
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Phantom X, what do I have to do, teach myself hieroglyphics to figure out what you're talking about?
By the way, the 13 was never meant to be 5.13. The bouldering contest set it's own standards. I believe it may have been the highest grade in the contest.
Edit: Took a crash course and like where you are going with this, Phantom X.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Aug 28, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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I liked it a lot better back before the house was there.
You could drive up and park right before the locked gate.
Plenty of room for climbers and hikers, around 10-12 cars.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 28, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
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I did it exactly once -- from the honest-to-god, way-back-up-a-in-there real sit start -- and for weeks afterwards whenever I tried to move, my body felt and sounded like a broken lawn chair. Whatever Boulder 13 is "rated", its quite a bit harder from Mother Superior.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 28, 2015 - 07:17pm PT
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I liked it a lot better back before the house was there. You good drive up and park right before the locked gate. Plenty of room for climbers and hikers, around 10-12 cars.
Hell man, we drove our cars up and down the road many, many times -- whenever we could talk the owner of the car into it. Took Galen's blue VW Bug up there a bunch! Used to easy to be easy to catch a ride to the top with the tower maintenance guys as well. Those were the days! That gate was a joke; 20 different locks on it and all you had to do was push it open. I finally stopped driving up there in 1985 when one of the people who live in the houses ratted me out and a CHP officer, who was actually pretty cool about it, told me I needed to put down the hash pipe and park my car down at the bottom.
Seriously, great f*#kin' times!
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Aug 28, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
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"That gate was a joke; 20 different locks on it and all you had to do was push it open."
Remember many times being really tired at the end of the day and giving it a big push and it was open !
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 28, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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Somehow a friend has a key... Dropped pizza off at crucible one Sunday night. A real gentleman.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 29, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
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So i went up last night and removed the bolts that Roger placed, and its a dam good thing I did too, those things were an accident waiting to happen. This fool is completely incompetent and used 5/16" bolts in 3/8" drilled holes, then advertised for people to climb it.
When i got to the first bolt i pulled out my 9/16" wrench, which is the head size of a 3/8" bolt, but it was too big. My 1/2" wrench fit the bolt head. Imagine my surprise when i gave the wrench 1/2 turn and then was able to pull out whole bolt, sleeve and all, with my fingers. Next bolt same thing only the sleeve caught on the lip of the hole and i didnt fiddle with it. Third bolt, same thing. One twist of the wrench and pulled it out with my fingers.
This is criminal negligence. People assume bolts are good and an innocent person could have been severely injured or killed. They may have held a fall or two but one twist on a hanger and that bolt would have failed the next time it was loaded.
this is the first (highest)bolt as i removed it, sleeve intact.
the componants of the same bolt. Note the washer used because the bolt is too small for the hanger hole
three deadly bolts
Oh and the holds have been doctored as well. Theres a handrail flake by the second bolt that was giant to start with, but the top has been carefully chipped to make it perfectly flat. There are also scratch/scrape marks, curiously in a pair of bucket scoops at the top. Maybe a little grit was in them? The thing is one of the worst travesties, ethically and safety wise that i have seen in 40 years of climbing. Roger, i did you a favor. You soon would have had blood on your hands
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 29, 2015 - 03:11pm PT
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I left the belay bolts after checking them. After removing the bolts i determined that unlike the 3 on the face, the sleeve had caught on the oversize hole edges and expanded in the hole, sticking tight. I replaced the bolts and hangers. Not the best case scenario, but they are safe. The excsss hardware had been removed from the anchors before i got there.
In an ironic twist, that good ol leeper hanger and 1/4" buttonhead is way safer than the new bolts. And yes, you know nothing dork, I would tr off that thing anytime. It was properly placed
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 29, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
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One more thing on the bolts. These were cheap and lightweight, even if they had been placed in the correct size hole. Bolt strength is rated as ungraded, grade 3 (weak), grade 5 (medium), and grade 8 (strong). Grade 8 bolts should always be used, with grade 5 being the minimum. You can identify the strength by the number of hashmarks on the bolt head. 1 mark = grade 3, 3 marks = grade 5, 5 marks = grade 8 (i know it doesnt make sense but thats how it is).
These bolts are ungraded, probably from china. You can twist the head off of an ungraded 5/16" bolt without trying. Its always best to go with stainless steel as well
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 29, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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Thank you Ron!
We all need take a part in protecting this incredible resource.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 29, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
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Nothing wrong with a TR, can be scarier than a clip up sporter.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 29, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
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Oh fer christ's sake. The circus is in town, and the alpha clown has a drill. Worst case scenario. Anybody actually ever met or seen this gym rat?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Aug 30, 2015 - 03:37am PT
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Roger, when selecting a rock to crawl under, please make sure it's well off the road.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 30, 2015 - 10:17am PT
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Scattergun may not be the actual bolter. The poster below is this short older guy that smokes a cigar, seen him a few times on the hill but don't know his name.
herethewholetime
Trad climber
Socal
Aug 17, 2015 - 10:21pm PT
I usually don`t post but thought I would throw a few things out there. First off Scattergun did not put the route up I did. He showed me the route and we thought it would be fun as a lead. Neither of us could find it online or in any guide books. In the past couple decades that friend of mine and I have climbed at Woodson and neither of us knew it was a line that went. It was put in ground up. A good friend of mine belayed me. I put the anchor bolt far back so others could use them for the crack and center of the face. The route has been up going onto 2 years. So far I have only heard good things about this route till John started crying about it. Claims he tried it off of the old rusted leaper hanger a few years ago. I would love to watch him do it, that thing probably could not support his body weight let alone his ego. As for John it seems whenever their is a problem his name comes up. He seems to like chopping other people's stuff, but it`s ok for him to bolt whatever he wants. Don`t worry I know where most of his bolt are ;) I recall a certain route at Suicide that got anchor bolts after all of these years for a certain someones convenience. Lets not forget he removed the pins from Etude, or the hanger from Sundance. Oh wait I didn`t do it but know who did (wink wink). I know of more should I go on? As far as his friends backing him they are just doing what friends do. A dark cloud always seems to follow where ever this climber goes.
As far as the bolts on the face by POA, GCS, or Yoav they are not mine. Although the one on Yoav is great for keeping the rope out of the crack, but hate to break the news to everyone it`s been there for a while. It has been there for just over a year before the route got posted on mountainproject.
Just wanted to get a few facts straight. Do whatever your going to do because your going to do it anyways. Just remember in the end the rock pays. Please don`t pm me or write posts to me. I normally don`t the forum this stuff because I think it can be toxic. I like to come on Supertopo from time to time to see what I love....climbing.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 30, 2015 - 10:44am PT
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Hey everyone with an insta-matic gas driven bolt gun
drive around Ramona looking for boulders - if you find a cool one, walk up to the home and knock on their door. Obtain permission and go f***ing nuts on private property.
but go awayyyyyyyyy from Woodson.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
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Well wherethewholetime, you made a real nice booby trap, because your bolts were s hit, i pulled them out with my fingers. How in the world can you say you didnt know if the line had been climbed when there was a freaking tr bolt on it? This was never about John it was about preserving the rock, but now its about safety. You drilled 3/8" holes and put spindly 5/16" bolts in. As a result, the outer sleeve did not expand and grip the sides of the hole.. you can see from my pics that the sleeve was just expanded enough to make it feel tight when turned with a wrench. I only had to loosen the bokrs about a half turn to pull out bolt, sleeve and all. The sleeve is the holding componant, and if it comes out then there was nothing holding it in. For an incompetent d#@&%e you sure are smug
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
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Wow they dont let you say d o u c h e on here
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
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I guess i made my point, but ethics are one thing, bad bolts kill.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 30, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
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Are you sure about that number, Warbler? Seems a little, I don't know, high.
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mtwoodsonguide
Trad climber
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Aug 30, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
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Looks like 3/8" x 3 1/2 or 4" Rawl 5pc to me.
Lets see close ups of the bolt heads and the writing on the sleeves.
Otherwise I say slander.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 30, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
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Whatever, the bolts are out and next time I get out there the bolts on Grand Central Station are gone as well.
One discussion that we need to have revolves around this question: why -- after decade after decade after decade after decade of routes like Hear My Train and The Widow Bereft being climbed using natural gear for anchors -- why are folks suddenly and intently driven to put in bolts TR anchors? Woodson is NOT a sport area and it is NOT a gym.
I'm not being hypothetical here. I'm genuinely curious. What would compel someone to start peppering bolts right next to the placements that served a natural anchors for generations of Woodson climbers? Do they even stop for one minute to think about what they are doing, and where they are doing it, and why they are doing it?
On another note, I recently noted a mighty fine looking Woodson crack I've never done. I don't think I've ever even seen it?! Christ almightly!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 30, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
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Looks like 3/8" x 3 1/2 or 4" Rawl 5pc to me. Lets see close ups of the bolt heads and the writing on the sleeves. Otherwise I say slander.
Yes, I agree. The photos have been manipulated and 40-year-Woodson veteran Ron Amick is making it all up. That much is obvious.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Being a factory certified large bore engine mechanic with 30 years experience in no way qualifies me to know anything about bolts, but the guy at the ace hardware store said that 5/16" bolts take a 1/2" wrench and 3/8" bolts take a 9/16" wrench and he is an expert. Another tip was that 5/16" bolts are 5/16" in diameter. How nice to be able to tell from a picture what size they arent, thank you Mt woodson guy for your considered opinion. Wait, 5 pc, as in 5 piece? What bolts have 5 pieces? These manky little things had two. And how is it that the sleeve came out with the bolt if they fit the hole mr armchair mechanic?
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dmr
Social climber
Carlsbad, CA
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Aug 30, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
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http://www.powers.com/pdfs/mechanical/06914.pdf
The "3/8"" 5-piece bolts are 5/16" bolts plus the sleeve to fit a 3/8" hole. The cone and another sleeve part are probably still in the hole. I think with wedge type bolts 3/8" is 3/8"
The hardware store bolts on my previous photo are on the backside of 10a on the Outside.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
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top - 5/16" bolt i removed
next- 3/8" x 5" hilti expansion bolt
next- 3/8" x 4" hilti
bottom - 3/8" 3pc concrete anchor
head of the bolt i removed "bundu 8.8"... wheres bundu?
blurry pic of a grade 5, 3/8" bolt head
heres the weenie little sleeve, doesnt look like any rawl ive ever seen
finally, heres a 3/8" female expansion bolt (hilti) and the 5/16" imposter. Can you speak up mtwoodsonguy? i cant hear you when you talk out of your azz
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
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all pseudo technobabble aside, i pulled these things out of their cubby holes with thumb and forefinger, dont care what size or how many pieces, bolts that do that aint safe fer fallin on, yo
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dmr
Social climber
Carlsbad, CA
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Aug 30, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
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I think the 8.8 is a metric or euro bolt grade. It looks like it is roughly equivalent to Grade 5. Maybe these are metric bolts in slightly oversized SAE holes?
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 30, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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could be, dmr, but theres no sense in drilling a 4" deep 3/8" hole to put a 5'16" diameter bolt into. The last thing you want with an anchor subject to multi directional stress is play between the bolt and the hole. If the anchoring portion is 4" deep and you have 1/16" play at the lip of the hole then you have substantial levering, which multiplies the shear stress i want to say 2(D x L) but not sure. Anyway, slop in the hole compounds stress and allows levering action on the anchor sleeve, so why would you use that style bolt? A good concrete or rock anchor is pounded in then tightened to pull up the sleeve and expand the maleable metal into the rock, cinching it tight, no wiggle. But to say it again, the technical part doesnt mean a thing when the bolts come out with 1/2 turn of the wrench and fingers.
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dmr
Social climber
Carlsbad, CA
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Aug 30, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
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These are above what I think is Too Little Too Late (from Ron's '91 topo). However, the orientation of the "hangers" are in the opposite direction. I think I remember a single rusty, threaded stud near the top of a vertical face with a few small knobs.
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mtwoodsonguide
Trad climber
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Aug 30, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
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ok Ron your right, no big deal, relax.
I wasn't questioning the location of the bolts, who put them in, or the quality of the installation. You made the statement "These bolts are ungraded" but I could faintly see markings in one of your pictures and they sure looked like Rawl to me.
Seeing the heads, we know the grade is 8.8 which is medium carbon steel quenched and tempered. Pretty equivalent to SAE grade 5. Min tensile strength is 116,000 psi vs. 120,000 psi for a SAE grade 5
Obviously they're metric....and now i am concerned as well. It ain't like you can pick up Metric SDS bits at home depot.
I was told they also replaced the bolt on Ricks Ramp? or Ricks slab? the 5.9 one just down hill from here, and a second bolt was added. If the bolts you removed were questionable these may be as well.
If there is any doubt the holes should be redrilled. A 1/2" SDS bit will eat up all the pieces still in the hole. I have stainless 1/2" bolts for anyone competent
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 31, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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No prob woodson guy, you probably could have stopped short of crying slander but its all good :)
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 31, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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Bobby, that crack is in a hidden corridor in the hippie hang area. As you head towards the switch back where the trail to .ca night starts, jump off the road to the right (east), wander north for a few yards and behold a wonderland of rock we never saw bitd. I would have been working those rocks like a fiend if I had known.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 31, 2015 - 10:43am PT
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Dmr, ppl were working an outrageous overhanging project in the direction of pull of those bolts, but they were responsible climbers. The chain link hangers require the bolt to protrude way above the lip of the hole such makes the whole anchor weaker, and slamming in that many makes no sense.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 31, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
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Dear John Weinberg and Ron and all of you. I accept that there is, understatement, a lot of miss information and a lot of angry stuff. I just want to say sorry to all. I do not react well in angry situations where I am backed into a corner. And yes I have gotten a lot miss information about John Weinberg as a person that is untrue but which in turn has jaded my reactions. Moving forward, as I said in one of my statements on line, I won't chip any route, I was just angry and I meant that. I am sorry to John and this whole thing and am saying so publicly on Supor Topos in an attempt to make peace. I have given away the drill and will not bolt at all ever. We were naive and did not understand the complexity of this. I have sent John a personal email to confirm my desire to change this.
I will take back all of my reactions and actions now that I understand my role in this including my misunderstanding of John. I am willing to admit my stupid mistakes and change my opinions, truly, and you will see over time that I am a man of my word.
Roger
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 31, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
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Want to do what's right..........
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 31, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
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Still Really sorry for miss understanding things. I will be deleting my account now. Sorry again for this fire storm of stuff. Please. Happy Climbing and a public sorry to John Weinberg.
Last,
Roger
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 31, 2015 - 09:51pm PT
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woodson 10d looks soft and the retrobolts sound safe
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 31, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
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Last post To Ron. Thanks for taking the bolts. I would have done it when it got cooler. Still sorry and I will try better. The world is a complex place.
Thanks,
Roger
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 31, 2015 - 10:55pm PT
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We will forgive you if you upload a video of you eating a spider whole.
Just one, but has to be a big spider. This is where you really gotta step up to the plate. I think life is about making amends and moving on and you gotta eat the spider.
An orb weaver would be pretty cool. Might even get you a date.
Hit up Jaws next tuesday?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jesus Scattergun, if you like climbing at Woodson you are more than welcome here. This thing is just the latest in a long line of Woodson kerfuffles that date back eons. Stay, hang, post awkward and embarrassing photos or yourself and others, and so on. It's what we do. Be still and chill. Don't be a, uh, you know, scatterbrain and ditch out just because you've been honored with a classic Woodson hazing. Grow a pair, sunnyjim!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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^^^^^^^Plus 1000 on that. Even though it's hard to tell sometimes, everyone makes mistakes. It's just part of human nature. Tradition is important in an area. Living in the U.S.A. this is easy to forget, but if you want to see some crazy proud tradition check out the bolt spacing and pro on the Bohemian sandstone.
Hope to run into each of you up there some day, incuding you Roger! It does seem to be cooling off now.
Chris
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Thank you Roger for standing up and taking responsibility. It shows you are trying to do the right thing. Your anonymous cigar smoking buddy, who filled you full of lies and half truths is the one we should be worried about. You're alright in my book and I look foreword to seeing you and climbing with you up at Suicide, Woodson, or anywhere anytime.
John Weinberg
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Hey Roger, you have proven your character in my book, we all make mistakes, and everyone deserves a second chance, especially if they have the balls to man up like you have. Dont hang your head, you deserve respect for your honesty and humility. It never was personal with me, i just got ticked off when you started the crazy talk about chipping and such, but even that doesnt give me the right to lob random insults, and i apologize for that.
Dont delete your account, no need to beat yourself up. You can have those hangers if you want. Email me at ronamick000@gmail.com (those are zeroes).
Peace
did you really give your drill away? I would of bought it from you. If you still have it, I know of a few unclimbed lines (i chopped a trail to them) that only need an anchor to go. We can put in a couple tr bolts and get you some real FAs. Get ahold of me.
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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All is good again!
Thank's Roger!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Oh bBOOb, boulder 13 from a sit start? No duh, the thing is 7 feet tall, if that, theres no way to NOT sit start.
And that aint s hit nigga, back in 79 me and michael paul did The Nose from a sit start. No sh#t beemis, you can look it up.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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3 bolts
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Well said Ron
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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I usually don`t post but thought I would throw a few things out there. First off Scattergun did not put the route up I did. He showed me the route and we thought it would be fun as a lead. Neither of us could find it online or in any guide books. In the past couple decades that friend of mine and I have climbed at Woodson and neither of us knew it was a line that went. It was put in ground up. A good friend of mine belayed me. I put the anchor bolt far back so others could use them for the crack and center of the face. The route has been up going onto 2 years. So far I have only heard good things about this route till John started crying about it. Claims he tried it off of the old rusted leaper hanger a few years ago. I would love to watch him do it, that thing probably could not support his body weight let alone his ego. As for John it seems whenever their is a problem his name comes up. He seems to like chopping other people's stuff, but it`s ok for him to bolt whatever he wants. Don`t worry I know where most of his bolt are ;) I recall a certain route at Suicide that got anchor bolts after all of these years for a certain someones convenience. Lets not forget he removed the pins from Etude, or the hanger from Sundance. Oh wait I didn`t do it but know who did (wink wink). I know of more should I go on? As far as his friends backing him they are just doing what friends do. A dark cloud always seems to follow where ever this climber goes.
As far as the bolts on the face by POA, GCS, or Yoav they are not mine. Although the one on Yoav is great for keeping the rope out of the crack, but hate to break the news to everyone it`s been there for a while. It has been there for just over a year before the route got posted on mountainproject.
Just wanted to get a few facts straight. Do whatever your going to do because your going to do it anyways. Just remember in the end the rock pays. Please don`t pm me or write posts to me. I normally don`t the forum this stuff because I think it can be toxic. I like to come on Supertopo from time to time to see what I love....climbing.
last word from me - this is so wrong on so many levels. The guy who wrote it is a real piece of work. First of all, if he had been climbing at woodson for 20 years , as stated, i think we would know him. So whats your name bunky? Want to give yourself a little credibility? Ok so this guy goes on about how they couldnt find any record of the little slab being climbed therefore it must have been unclimbed....we never recorded dumpy little problems like that on the hill, there are millions of them. I would think that a grizzled veteran would see the tr bolt above the slab and shrewdly deduce that it had been climbed before. What did you think the bolt was for, dude? Put it in from the ground up...right. I neglected to mention that i climbed the lil slab after i removed the bolts, self belaying by moving an ascender up the fixed line after each move. Its 5.9, has been chipped and the bolts were not drilled from stances. The second bolt was waist high when on the stance you would drill from, and i dont think youre gonna hold the drill that low when on the lead.
After a quick (and fabricated) defense of his actions the guy goes right into a personal attack on weinberg, as if john wrote the woodson ethic or something. Etude? Sundance? I dont think they are at woodson. I found that disapproval witin the real woodson local cadre was unanimous among those i contacted about it. I call myself johns friend, but his backing was because he was right, not because we are blindly loyal, you twit. Havent seen Johns dark cloud, but mr. wherethef*#kwereyouthewholetime certainly has one now, if he didnt before. Get the facts straight...the comic relief is appreciated there. The ending is so darling. "please dont write posts to me" he just wants to spew and retreat to wherever invisible woodson hardmen go. Dude.....
oh and the leeper is fine, in 20 years you never used a single 1/4" bolt to tr from? Nobody is gonna fall anyway. If i were a few years younger id solo it just to make a point, its easy enough, im just too fat and awkward to risk such things these days
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
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bump this sh#t. MOAR SLANDER!!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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Just a reminder to all you hard guys: girls were running ropeless laps on Jaws before you were born. Before. You. Were. Born.
sukit
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 02:58am PT
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First pic , Razor's Edge?
I've never used a rope on Jaws even before I could get up the thing. That provided some good learning experiences. I never really considered what would happen if I came off after you can no longer step back onto the boulder behind you. I was pretty psyched when I finally got it. I climb it just about every time I visit; one of the best.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 06:48am PT
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More like brainoffoolishness coupled with lifeoflucky
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 07:06am PT
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Due to variance in the crack as it gradually widens from tips to hands most will encounter a "bitch to jam" move or two somewhere along the way. I find a right hand thumbs up pinch to be effective.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 07:19am PT
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Going thumbs down with the right hand is counterproductive (harder) in the off section because the right side of the crack is offset.
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Friend
climber
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Sep 11, 2015 - 10:04am PT
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I think Clark is right re Jaws. Thumbs down left, thumbs up right. There is a hard jam midway which requires thoughtful milking.. thinking about Burch's picture ^^^ !!! may help.
Here's a BVB-style move topo for Driving South based on my vivid recollection. Don't read if you want to onsight.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 11, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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Funny, Patty studies the heck out of that video. About as straight in as most would get I suspect. Because of the range of sizes, this is next on my "want to do" list.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sep 11, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
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If I can't do Jaws when I'm 70, please, someone shoot me. As for Boulder 13, when I did it, no one was climbinf offwidth by putting their feet first. I did it as a very-wide fist jam with a real offwidth move or two. Climbing it this way , for me, felt like 5.11+.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 11, 2015 - 02:19pm PT
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^^^^Doods the arm bar KING.
To be able to do Jaws at 70, I need to be able to do it at 59 first. I'll get on that right away (after it cools off a little around here that is) ;) . I am the optimist when it comes to that problem.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
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Russ already said that Boulder 13 was 10d; industry standard no less. I have no reason to doubt him. Boulder 13 is a touch harder than Jaws so...I guess 10 c/d for Jaws (industry standard of course).
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Sep 11, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
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I'm enjoying the "Driving South" topo. I think I can do it now.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Sep 11, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
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Don't sweat it Burch. We've all received an indiscriminate bitch slap on the hill at one time or another.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 11, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
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By the time I got to be a regular at Woodson (1975ish) Jaws was the benchmark for 5.10b.
I think it might have been a little bit sandbagged. Or maybe that was the proper grade for those who knew how to climb cracks, and climb them well. At times I had it so dialed that I was no longer capable of putting a realistic grade on it. 5.7? 5.8?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 11, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
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By the time I got to be a regular at Woodson (1975ish) Jaws was the benchmark for 5.10b.
And dimes were the benchmark for movie ticket prices, we get it gramps...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 11, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
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The speed of light is and always will be 186,000 miles per second, unless someone decides to recalibrate our entire system for measuring time and distance and weights and measures, pal.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Sep 11, 2015 - 09:12pm PT
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i dont get the fixation on jaws. Its short, its homely, its not particularly fun, and if i can do it without a rope its moderate 5.10, because i suck at cracks
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Sep 11, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
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and good point on stuff you have wired bob, you lose all objectivity when a 5.11d feels like 5.6
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Sep 11, 2015 - 09:17pm PT
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good point, kevin, the key phrase being "right off the road"
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 12, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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You got a thing for me now? It's okay if you do, the Woodson thread is the no-judgement zone.
That's funny. You sure you got the right thread?
Jaws is right by the road, and there is a cluster of fun stuff to get on right there next to it. THAT's why I'm on about it. That and the fact that it requires a few skills I don't have yet. Woodson is a great skill building area, and that's a fact!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 12, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
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My little brother entered the '84 contest, and the tender age of about 13. He had started climbing about a year previous, heard about this contest at Woodson, and thought he'd enter in his age range. Got a good spanking from the locals, but it opened his eyes, too.
He had been given a new rope to support his burgeoning climbing habit at a recent holiday- he brought it with him to the contest, not knowing he probably wouldn't need it. (Made him feel like the aspiring climber he wanted to be.) He left his pack with the rope at the sign-in desk, while he made the rounds of the problems. Later, he returned to the desk for his pack, and it was gone! His prized rope, disappeared. Frantically, he asks the folks at the desk if they'd seen it- one said he thought it might have been used on Lie Detector, where Ron Kauk was working the problem.
He walks over there, and sure enough, there's his rope, rigged on the problem...and Ron is tied into the end of it, trying to work the opening moves. There are a half dozen photographers around Ron, and every time he moved an inch, their cameras clicked like mad. My brother tried to push his way through them, but the photogs just elbowed him back. Finally, he managed to get in close enough and yelled, 'Hey...that's my rope!' The photogs just blew him off in disgust....but Ron said, 'sorry man....we just saw the rope at the desk, and thought it was part of the gear.' He asked them to pull & replace it, and gave it to my worried brother.
That simple little gesture of empathy has never left me.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2015 - 10:33am PT
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Mister E on Jaws 2010
I was thinking that I might be able to test the idea of climbing it at 70 in 8 years...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 14, 2015 - 12:46pm PT
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balding = low test = good slab climber
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Sep 14, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
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Go do a Kevin "slab" route. You might want some hair. Kevin knows what he's talkin' about. Oh yeah by the way I'm slightly balding on the top and never did have much body hair( I know...TMI), but part of that may due to my heritage.
Peace
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sep 14, 2015 - 04:01pm PT
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So, I feel that I have to come to Burchy's defense, just a little bit. You asked me what I thought Jaws should be rated. As I recall (always dubious at best), the Poway boys regarded it as 5.11a at first, but I quickly came to regard it as 5.10d. Piggott was the first to do it and he wasn't one to inflate grades. Realistically, on a climb, it would be rated something like 5.10d-5.11a. Maybe just the entrance move. Back then, we bouldered as practice for real climbs and tended to rate boulder moves as if we were doing the move hundreds of feet up rather than just off the ground. Still seems like the fair way to rate boulder moves to me but I've never been much of a boulderer, really.
For the data point, I still have hair. It's all grey and springy or something, however.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 14, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
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Posting on Supertopo = low T = facts = who cares
Only facts on this thread from here on out, no jokes plz
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Sep 24, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
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Looks like an anchor but why isn't it up on top?
....or maybe the real question is, why am I on the Woodson thread?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 25, 2015 - 06:25am PT
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you lose all objectivity when a 5.11d feels like 5.6
Not sure I will ever know what that feels like.....
I'm tall, so maybe the entrance move is easier for me on Jaws. I'm stubborn about when I get it, it's the middle 3 ft section that is off fingers for me, I want to get it jamming straight in. That off finger size is one of my weaknessess for sure. Add in the slight overhang and I am tested on a couple levels. I have a hard time thinking that Jaws is 10b. I could buy 10d, but all these ratings are general guidelines anyway. And Jaws is "5. pretty close to doing it" for me which probably means something 5.10 ish. Ok so what the hell 10b to 10d. I have mild dyslexia anyway.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 25, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
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Jaws being 10b is as accurate as saying there are no trolls in this thread.
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Pointbrk
Boulder climber
Encinitas, Scal
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Sep 29, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
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Johnny!
How do I miss this sh#t?
LOL
Have I really not had a post Since 2011?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 23, 2015 - 09:05am PT
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Is it true that Erik Sloan has managed to get the Board of Geographic Names to change the
spelling of Mt Woodson?
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Friend
climber
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Oct 23, 2015 - 10:55am PT
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How about some fresh photos, it must be getting nice down there...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 24, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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Firefly! At 11a, now THAT'S a sandbag. 11d if it's a dime. I've seen some good climbers get closed out on that gnarly little morsel.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 30, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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No mention of putting in sh#tters
That's because there are already shitters on the Lake Poway side. It's the side we use that needs the (potato chip) shitters. Have fun out there!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 31, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
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Dafuq, I can't ID that thing. I hate it when that happens.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 31, 2015 - 02:14pm PT
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Is that the thin aid climb on Everest?
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Oct 31, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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Adam,
You guys didn't boulder that one out? Wait, I see the rope is gone in the second photo. I guess you just needed a TR lap to dial it in.
That's because there are already shitters on the Lake Poway side. It's the side we use that needs the (potato chip) shitters. Have fun out there!
I'd like to make the potato chip the shitter.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jeeze, the fingers are getting strong there Adam...getting on that thing. Sweet day!
I'd like to make the potato chip the shitter.
That plan has been bandied about. Hard to get some alone time on that chunck of rock if you know what I mean.
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Friend
climber
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Cool JFR. I like the west side better for hiking, east side for climbing.
That split boulder has some obscure gems.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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^^^^^^^^but he's a devoted fan boi!
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jfr
Mountain climber
32N 117W
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Burch
Hikers R light!!!!!!111!!
Thanks. You're right, of course. But remember, fan bois are fickle. You haven't written many awesome TR's lately, I've noticed.
I may have to transfer my hero-worship to Vitaliy...
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jfr
Mountain climber
32N 117W
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:32pm PT
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Well, my first post was about a 1/10 on Burch's troll-o-meter scale. Sad but true. Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a troll. I should take lessons.
Anyway, above and beyond my own "epic" TR, the real point of my post was to provide a proper fan-boi intro to a really and truly epic TR by the Burchmeister himself. (I probably should have posted it to the ball-cupping thread.) A link to it was within my TR, but I don't think anyone bothered to click on it. So here it is:
http://sangabrielmnts.myfreeforum.org/ftopic3760-0-0-asc-.php
Do stuff like that, and write stuff like that, and maybe you, too, can get a fan-boi of your very own.
Friend
Cool JFR. I like the west side better for hiking, east side for climbing.
That split boulder has some obscure gems.
You mean THIS one? (Maybe this will get things back on topic)
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 19, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
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Back to Mother Superior: Here's my boy Karl Mueller hucking a lap in what I'd guess is sometime '82 or '83ish. Now me, well golly, I did damn near everything up there at least once without a rope, but never MS. I simply could not get the move he is doing in this photo dialed down just right. Of course, Karl was OG San Diego, Mission Gorge born and bred during the Scumbag years, and so it makes perfect sense he'd be soloing Mother Superior. What, like that's a thing? Hmmph. Just another day at Woodson, guys and gals. We shot with live ammo back then.
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Friend
climber
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Nov 19, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
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Mother superior, cordless.
In running shorts. WTF!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 19, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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Yeah Andrew. but he's wearing an elastic kneepad. Dab!
I've got some pretty good Karl Mueller stories. In fact I've got a boundless treasure trove of good Karl Mueller stories, some of which are actually true. Like the time he and Alan Nelson picked a particularly busy Saturday in the spring, around '77 or so, for an afternoon of cragging at the Mission Gorge. Now, mind you, in 1977 there was no shortage of old duffers, gumbies, wannabies, no-account meatheads, and ossified Sierra Club RCS types at the Gorge. It was a textbook backwater. If you were a new-age Stonemaster-influenced crag hoodlum out to do some trolling, it was a target-rich environment. And if there was anything that "K1" and "K2" loved to do, it was troll and sandbag the duffers. They invented that sh#t way before Al Gore invented the internet. I'm just sayin', is all.
So Karl and Alan head up the trail outfitted in a raggedy-assed yard-sale assemblage of torn up button down shirts, patched-up lederhosen and knickers, 1950's-vintage klettershue, and a giant rack of Alan's dad's late-pleistecene era climbing gear, vintage crap like Bedayn carabiners, welded steel snap-links, anchient soft-iron pitons and ring angles, hardware-store low-grade ball-peen hammers, weird, mysterious, useless slings and buckles and other assorted props, the works. You get the picture. They looked like they had just gotten off the Eiger and were making a quick stop on their way to Ama Dablam. Of course, it was the frayed, blown out goldline rope they used that really tied the whole ensemble together. They wordlessly started working their way through the entire roster of 5.10 and 5.11's at the crag, doing stuff like simulclimbing The Ramp with knotted slings for pro, down climbing the 5.8's as if this were the most natural behavior in the world, trailing the rope as they soloed around like a couple of drug-addled Emilio Comicis. Although I was not there to witness this spectacle, I have heard tell...
Then there was the time Karl pressured me into being his wingman on a one-day bullet trip to Josh from San Diego: drive up, climb all day, drive back: 7 hours in the car for 5 hours climbing. Seems legit, right? We wound up getting sucked into the gravitational pull of Tobin and his entourage, attempting the FA of some choss heap that clocked in years later at 5.12 b or c or somesuch. Ah, youth. Now, was it Karl or was it Frank Noble who pushed the fully suit-and-tied Alan Nelson into the swimming pool at that Black Tie fundraiser for some Governor's race at that fancy downtown hotel? Were the police summoned, or were we merely tossed out? After so many decades I can't quite recall....
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Nov 19, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
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Well sh#t, just when I thought this thread was all dried up. That MS pic is f*#king awesome.
In running shorts. WTF!
Friend,
I've told you before the running shorts are key. You'll come around.
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Karl Mueller
Trad climber
Boulder CO
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Nov 19, 2015 - 08:13pm PT
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Bob, your storytelling abilities are remarkable. Alan Nelson and I did sandbag a few folks once in awhile back in the day, but not to the extent you describe at Mission Gorge. Soloing MS was certainly one of the scarier things I ever did at Woodson, but it helped that I'm 6'3" and was able to reach that upper hold near the finish. Brings back great memories though. One of my favorites was when I was experimenting with Randy Leavitts groundbreaking new technique. I was playing at the base of Boulder 13 and fiddling with hand-stacks at the base of the wide crack. Frank Noble laughingly suggested I just stuff my foot in the crack over my hands and incredibly it worked perfectly first try. I just did a sit up and grabbed the top. Evidently that method became standard afterwards. I have such great memories of Woodson, although the real ace then was Greg Cameron. He used to just arm bar up Mother Superior like it was nothing. I couldn't hardly even hold myself into the crack much less move up it with an arm bar. I also remember watching Chris Lindner's mom toprope Robbins Crack when she was six months pregnant with him. So long ago, but so much fun during such a formative time in our lives.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 19, 2015 - 08:17pm PT
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wrapping knee to fit.
A0
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deepnet
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Nov 19, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
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This tread just got classy again!
Great stories!
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Karl Mueller
Trad climber
Boulder CO
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Nov 19, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
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Since people seem to be appreciating Woodson stories, here are a couple more. I was about 15 or 16 and trying to get up Monkey Crack for the first time, around 1975 or so. At that point in my life, I had the muscle mass of a stick insect (6'2", 135lbs) and didn't have the strength to be able to pull up on the first overhanging right hand jam, lock off and reach higher with my left. Eric Beck, an old school Yosemite legend happened to be there that day and was spotting me. I bailed out of the right hand jam and my backside hit Eric square in the face on the way down. Blood started spurting out of his nose, which he thought at the time was broken. I was mortified, a young punk high school kid that smashed this accomplished old school climbers face with my ass. Guess he learned to stand back a bit while spotting somebody. Another story was even funnier. I was walking up a steep narrow gully right below Lemon Chiffon. I hear this huge commotion and look around to see what's happening. Evidently a rattlesnake had slithered across the path right behind my heels after I had walked by. Frank Noble was walking directly behind me and just about stepped on the thing. He evidently spun around and jumped into the air, then proceeded to claw his way over another climber walking directly behind him, then landed in a heap and was running down the hill by the time I turned around. I didn't even see the snake and couldn't figure out what the hell had just happened. I mentioned the snake incident to Eric during a subsequent session and remember him saying "rattlesnakes? - yeah, I hate those units".
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:23am PT
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BVB said: "Now, was it Karl or was it Frank Noble who pushed the fully suit-and-tied Alan Nelson into the swimming pool at that Black Tie fundraiser for some Governor's race at that fancy downtown hotel? Were the police summoned, or were we merely tossed out? After so many decades I can't quite recall.... "
Err, that was me. A logical conclusion of underage youth poaching champagne from Republican election night campaign parties. Pushing Alan in seemed like a good idea at the time. He did have his brash edges, and I doubt alcohol softened them. I recall we left of our own volition, since there were no other repercussions. Even Alan didn't hold a grudge.
I wish that guy was still around.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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While we're still on Karl's bandwagon, I've got a couple pictures, though lamentably not of Woodson.
Careful scrutiny of this long ago eroded away problem at Boomer Beach will reveal the inscribed graffiti by BVB: "Carl M takes tension". Sadly, Karl was apparently unaware of this jab until I pointed it out to him in recent years.
Karl with Watusi at the base of Stone Groove. The tight line on his masterfully managed hip belay suggests BVB is the fish on the other end of that line.
And just to make the bridge between the nostalgic BS and the topic at hand, here's Watusi affecting a casual pose on the TV Screen at Woodson. Clearly, we revered Don Whillans at this point in time...
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 10:48am PT
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Bra-Jay, the hip belay is totally au courant, absolutely the best way to bring up a competent fast moving second. It's a skill every real climber should both know and have confidence in, just in case you drop your belay-device-du-jour.
Pfft, I've been to Woodson twice in the last 20 years, I can't play your "ID this crack amongst thousands of the best bouldering cracks in existence" game. But here's an easy one for you: what route is Roy miming the beta for?
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Friend
climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
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It's a trick question.
Thumbs down right thumbs up left is key for CA Night, Hear My Train and Driving South. Hell there's even a close-up of it in Premium Miniatures.
I reckon the correct answer is, uhhh... "not Columbo crack"
Well played Off White :)
(More photos please!)
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Friend
climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
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Also, I don't know what the pic is I posted either
Hahahaa classic
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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climber and route?
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
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Oh, and Roy applying the beta to answer any questions about the problem.
Sweet Jeebus, how can 16' of rock be so difficult?
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
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Burch,
That boulder is near Vomitorium? Where? Reckon I ain't never laid eyes on it.
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Friend
climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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The first shot looks like Lemon Chiffon. I don't know the climber but that is one proud looking chalk bag.
Ditto Roy's hat!
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
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Another vote for Lemon Chiffon on that first pic!
If you stand up on one of those Vomitorium slabs (the one without the bolts), look in a southwesterly direction, you'll see it (the tips egg)!
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Friend
climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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@Jon C
I'm all for running shorts, I put on a pair most afternoons right after work. But on Mother Superior? Sheesh. That's a climb I hold in high regard (fear) and the times I have messed around on it, it's been in full riot gear - long pants, rubgy shirt, $6 worth of tape sprayed everywhere. Shorts on that strikes me the same way as Mike Paul hiking HMT in his sneaks. Like, beyond rad. What's next? Big Grunt in the nude? God I hope not, you could get banned posting a photo of that, and rightly so.
California Night - what a trick sequence that thing is. 5 stars. The Bachar problems are always sweet.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
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^^^^ Come on Friend! You could make the all male edition of the stone nude calender ;)
This thread is ALIVE again. Nice photos and history guys. I only knew Carl Muller as a good geology student at SDSU. That is a sweet shot of him on MS!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 20, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
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The first shot looks like Lemon Chiffon. I don't know the climber but that is one proud looking chalk bag.
Close, Andrew. It's the face on the boulder just left of Lemon Chiffon, a really good 5.10 with some classically demanding footwork. A bit highball as well, just for fun. The climber is Tom Scott, OG Poway Mountain Boy, used to hang with George Mason et. al. of Canadian fame[?] I think I got all those details right. Somebody else will have to fact check it for me. Being stuck in what is basically a nursing home with nothing to do but sleep in, work out, and drink coffee is taking it's toll on my mental acuity...
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Nov 20, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
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Big Grunt in the nude? God I hope not, you could get banned posting a photo of that, and rightly so.
The first time I climbed BG, I did it shirtless. The next logical step would indeed be nude.
Jesus that would be horrible, but imagine the gasps you'd get from the potato chip crowd on a nice weekend afternoon. Too bad it's not a stemming problem.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 05:51pm PT
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Yup, what BVB said. I don't recall Tom Scott's pedigree, aside from the fact he's always been intimidatingly competent.
Tarbuster wears that swell chapeau for a reason, though Friend makes it amply clear that Samson didn't need the hair in the first place.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Nov 21, 2015 - 08:12am PT
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That's not Tom Scott, and he's not a Poway Boy.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 22, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
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That's not Tom Scott, and he's not a Poway Boy.
I thought he looked too young to be Tom, but the face is shaded at a weird angle. I knew he was with us at California Night, and the nest thing we went to was Lemon Chiffon. I think. Is that Scruffy? Just who is that mystery dude!?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 22, 2015 - 05:44pm PT
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And speaking of climbers who became geologists, I was watching a program on the Discovery Channel today that featured Alan Lester waxing poetic about the Rocky Mountains, *AND* Karl Karlstom going on about how they have discovered sediment from the Appalachian mountains way, way down in the strata of the Grand Canyon. WTF!? What are the chances? I figure the producer of that episode just has to be a climber. Karl, you need to get yourself a gig like that.
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Karl Mueller
Trad climber
Boulder CO
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Nov 22, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
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In response to your last comment Bob, I did help National Geographic with a TV special on Canyonlands a few years ago. They filmed me waxing poetic in the middle of Upheaval Dome in Island in the Sky. I had a bunch of students haul heavy cameras and booms all the way into the dome from the White Rim to help them out. We climbed directly up the south side on the way out and the producer was none to happy about the exposure. I know Alan well (climbed and taught with him for years) and he is definitely into getting his mug on TV (and is good at it). I've worked with the NPS in Arches and Canyonlands on both sides of the river to help them understand the complicated geology out there, including lectures, field trips and making imagery for them for the Fiery Furnace. Unfortunately the latest head honcho out there doesn't believe in that sort of thing, which is frustrating. Most NPS staff have backgrounds in biology, so some expert geologic knowledge of the parks they are working in would help them serve the public better. And these parks in particular are geologic wonderlands. Once you understand the geology, they become even more amazing. But that's minor cross to bear in the larger scheme of things I guess.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 22, 2015 - 10:24pm PT
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Did National Geo wind up using the footage of you at Upheaval in a different episode? Did they ever settle on a concrete cause for the formation? I know what you mean about subject matter expertise. I have no formal training in Geology but after 8 years in management at Cap Reef I got to where I could interpret the park's geology pretty well for the lay audience. "First, imagine a vast inland sea..." got to be a running joke. Capitol Reef in my favorite National Park, and the Waterpocket Fold is my favorite feature on the Colorad Plateau. I like the west side of the Colorado River...the Henry's, the Aquarius Plateau, Circle Cliffs, the Swell, the Kaiparowits, Robber's Roost, the Little Rockies, the Escalante River drainage, the Fold...man I'll tell you what that's some good sh#t right there. The Strike Valley overlook is the single best viewpoint in all of Red Rock country, IMHO.
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Karl Mueller
Trad climber
Boulder CO
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Nov 26, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Hey Bob In answer to your question, essentially all the strata and geologic structures in Upheaval Dome can be readily attributed to the long term growth over tens of millions of years of a now pinched off salt diapir. Basically a mushroom shaped salt body that pierced the surface of the Earth. There are many of these things currently growing and spreading in the western Zagros of Iran. That said, Upheaval is unique among the salt structures in the Paradox Basin (which are more typically elongate salt walls that have extensional faults and rollovers developed above them as they collapse due to dissolution in ground and river water) Even the salt experts agree it could have been initiated as an impact structure when a thin sequence of older strata lay above the Paradox Formation. The oldest strata in the core of the dome is Moenkopi Fm, which lies upsection from older strata that might preserve a record of impact such as deformation lamellae or high pressure mineral phases such as stishovite or coesite. NatGeo did use a bit of the footage they shot of me, explaining sedimentary structures in strata and the geologic history of the region. It was totally unscripted, which I found a little hard to deal with. I would approach it differently if I did it in the future.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
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Temps looked puuuuuuuurfect tday!!
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Dec 17, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
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I thought Sickle Crack was 5.8
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 18, 2015 - 01:09am PT
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Yeah, and five seven after you've done it once or twice.
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Friend
climber
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Dec 18, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
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I bouldered Sickle onsight and was super proud of it. Still am!
5.classic
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Dec 19, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
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Bear Grills climb huh?
Burchey...you have no idea how envious I am that you are bouldering Robbins. Goal for me unmet.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 21, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
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To balance out my life, with this reduction in risk, I'll probably ramp up the level of being generally aggravating online to compensate
while I generally avoid the Burchmeister's mass postings, I have to say... I suspect we're all doomed now with this proclamation.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 21, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
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Will both you kooks please stfu.
Thanks.
Bvb come back.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 22, 2015 - 12:14am PT
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Friend
climber
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Dec 22, 2015 - 09:40am PT
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drljefe ftw
Locker and Adam repping Josh and Woodson LOL. Coupla batboys in a slap fight over whose team is going to the world series :)
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Friend
climber
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Dec 22, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
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Ba dum BUM!
Soon as I lose 75 lbs of Christmas fat, I'm on that thing.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Dec 22, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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Shiiiiiit^^^^^^ Don't you gotta gain it first??
Sweet mother of god people!! No Pics (per say) for more than 20 posts??? Can't end the year like this! gOTTA HAVE SOME STOKE!
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Dec 22, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
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Woodson 5.9
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Friend
climber
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Dec 22, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
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How's the foot
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Dec 23, 2015 - 07:05am PT
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Healing slowly, a couple more months I hope.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 25, 2015 - 12:07am PT
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A Woodson photo from 2007. Just because.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 25, 2015 - 01:18am PT
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John you injured???
Almost time for a Woodson 2016! Was on the hill Xmas eve. Great temps. Might head up again on Saturday. this thread is cranking, keep it up!
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Atp
Boulder climber
Clairemont, CA
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Dec 26, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
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mmower
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 27, 2015 - 05:29pm PT
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Picked up a bit of rusty aid gear that was left behind at the Everest boulder, today. If it's yours tell me about it and I'll do my best to get it back to you.
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Dec 28, 2015 - 09:26am PT
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Dec 28, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Dec 28, 2015 - 09:43am PT
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 28, 2015 - 05:52pm PT
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No. Never seen cheatstones on it. Kick 'em down where they belong.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Dec 28, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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No cheat stones, just do it !!
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| Messages 1 - 619 of total 619 in this topic |
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Dont put in bolts, as a rule
Let us know!