Discussion Topic |
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 19, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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I dunno if he is optimistic. I think he just likes the practice of explaining things.
The few times I actually decided to bear the torture of seeing so much crap on that thread I found myself learning from a few very smart folks. Like Ed.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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dumb?
people posting to that thread are anything but "dumb", at least in the first 5 senses of the word...
and actually, if I thought people were "dumb" in the 6th and 7th sense why would I post to the thread at all?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb
1a : lacking the human power of speech dumb animals
b of a person often offensive : lacking the ability to speak
2: temporarily unable to speak (as from shock or astonishment) struck dumb with fear
3: not expressed in uttered words dumb grief
4: silent; also : taciturn
5: lacking some usual attribute or accompaniment; especially : having no means of self-propulsion a dumb barge
6a : lacking intelligence : stupid
b : showing a lack of intelligence asking dumb questions
c : requiring no intelligence dumb luck
7: not having the capability to process data a dumb terminal — compare intelligent 3a
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 19, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
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You misspelled Ed's last name dingleberry.
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yosguns
climber
San Mateo, California
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Dec 19, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
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Sigh.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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OK, you got me at the 2nd half of #4 - I am dumb.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
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We are so fortunate to have a man of Ed's caliber available on a forum of this type.
Dingus you shouldn't put him on the spot with such verbiage as your thread title suggests.
He's a solid good man .......
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 19, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
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hahaha
we were just having this conversation in a different venue
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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There just is not a more solid and fascinating Supertopoan. How he was able to shoehorn in his large humanism what with everything else that is in there, I haven't a clue.
Roper once saw and did point out in his literature, Oppenheimer in Camp Four. I think it was a tryst of Oppie's, a sexy weekend camping jaunt; He was "jaunty" after all. There was a gal friend with him you see and one supposes he thought he was incognito up in our little dirt patch back then surrounded by firs and pines. I am seeing that great stiff brim hat of Oppie;s as well, don't you see that too?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Dec 20, 2014 - 04:35am PT
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Agreed^^^^^.
I find it hard to not like the man.
Poised Deportment.Especially on that thread.
Good job Sumner.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 04:51am PT
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One of the most approachable geniuses I know
Happy Holidays ED
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 05:06am PT
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Hartoni
you have never convinced the opponents on that thread of your arguments soundness. To them you have not made any progress. It looks like you are spinning your wheels even with good tires. Now with all that deportment bestowed on you, if your sound explanations don't ring with them what is the problem if it is not their dumbness?
In the end the Chief will be correct: Whether AGW happens or not in some 1.73 billion years the Earth will be too hot for life. Sci AM Jan 2015 planets
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Dec 20, 2014 - 05:39am PT
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"In the end the chief will be correct"
Well,everyone needs a role model,Aye?
I do not post over there anymore,nor will I post here again,nice talking with you.Really.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 05:54am PT
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Hey Dingus
in the end
nothing really matters
what matters is that we are here now
Your call out trolling method is nothing more than you just being challenged by more intelligent people. understandable
Give it your best shot
thoughts turn into ideas
and some ideas are dumb
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 20, 2014 - 06:05am PT
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Ed reminds me of Mr. Miyagi - intelligent, kind, skilled, giving, and wise. He's always adding to the richness and fun of this place. Don't know how he finds the depth of patience to continue contributing to the Climate Change site; his patience seems infinite.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 06:15am PT
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Fish Finder,
I see you have used a call out trolling method on me. And I will apply your reasoning above with our situation to get a conclusion. Oh, understandable , how brilliant! I see you do not know the motive of my post.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 06:31am PT
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Hey say there Dingus
Happy Holidays
Just up early having some fun with my coffee
I would be a fool to know anyones motive but mine
I have seen Ed spin his wheels though
it was in the conversion van that was more high maintenance than
well anything
please tell us your motive
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 06:44am PT
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Fish Finder,
motive: No Thanks. It is more interesting to see accusation fly when there is uncertainty.
It was Rudyard Kipling:
can you keep your head when all around are losing theirs
Happy Holidays to you.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 07:38am PT
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make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
definition of troll
or
"motive: No Thanks. It is more interesting to see accusation fly when there is uncertainty."
the only thing uncertain is how many times you will edit your posts
Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to achieve
I have had the pleasure of hangin with Mr Hartouni on several occasions
hopefully one day we can also hang
best,gregg
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2014 - 07:55am PT
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Be smart enough not to think that if someone doesn't have your opinion, you or other's are considered dumb. Ed's not dumb enough to not listen to other opinions, I wouldn't consider myself "smart", but I've had the pleasure of talking with Ed and enjoyed giving and listening to each other's views on whatever the subject.
Ed and others have their opinion, experience and education....so do you dingus, respect it and move on.
Peace
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Powder
Trad climber
the Flower Box
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:03am PT
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Maybe we are the dumb ones...
The thread is clearly for a "Hartuni" (and also "Hartoni,") not the Hartouni we all know and think it was intended to... No one'd address a person incorrectly twice in a row after being reminded...!?
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-_-;;
Happy Holidays~ *^_^*
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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ron gomez,
Be smart enough not to think that if someone doesn't have your opinion, ... respect it and move on.
Your hero ED has not done this. e.g. move on
Perhaps we and you could apply your advice to him.
I like the way you dig yourself into a hole. happy holidays brother.
Mark de Force: Right ON. could not agree with you more.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:22am PT
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Friend is far from hero.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:25am PT
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This is a dumb thread.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:35am PT
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The subtle intricacies of life are not always clear for apogee who is always swimming on the surface at the shallow end of the pool .....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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I'm glad Ed is optimistic. He has educated this dumb ST user.
Thanks Ed, for helping to make us climbers less dumb.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Marcus McCoy from Nevada City
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Dec 20, 2014 - 09:12am PT
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Being optimistic is such an endearing quality...
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 09:53am PT
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I am optimistic about being born in the USA instead of Canada.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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Leader, not sidekick aptitude.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Dec 20, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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I like the Ed I see on this board. He doesn't treat me like an idiot for acting like an idiot, the way the other humans like to do. It's one of his most impressive intelligences.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 11:06am PT
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wow, thanks for the love everyone...
Dingus McGee loves a debate, and he also likes to be the "top dog," I like his "aww shucks" way of edging into them.
My Climate Thread participation has many personal motivations. First is to learn about the research, and the thread helps with that... someone might post up some "news" and I enjoy tracking down the technical source and reading, and then explaining. Some might put up a "technical article" making a point, and once again, I can read the article and see whether or not it makes any sense.
So whatever you think about the science of climate change, I use your posts to motivate my own education. If I am optimistic about anything, it is that I can read and understand the scientific literature concerning climate.
Another motivation is to try to separate the discussions of the consequences of climate change from the science showing that there is climate change, and that humans have a role in that change. Interestingly, you can see from his post above that Dingus McGee hasn't quite learned how to do that separation himself. Arguing the science case also helps illustrate the methods of the science, which is something more general than just the climate thread.
In my mind, science is a "democratic" process open to anyone willing to take the time to learn it. It's not easy to do, but it is possible, and given someone to ask questions of it goes a bit quicker... so that is another optimism, that people view science as something accessible, not the domain of an elite few. At any rate, I'm willing to answer questions in a way that helps people go farther on their own. Dingus is no stranger to the optimism of self-actualization in the intellectual domain. So on that front, his own activities in this direction are a partial support of my optimism.
There are larger issues that the climate change science brings to the fore, and that has to do with the presence of humans at all, and the implications of intelligence, these are more philosophical musings.... science makes predictions and certainly our understanding of the natural history of life on Earth indicates that the human species will not survive into the indefinite future. That species, our species, will end. The existential issues of individual death are difficult enough, we haven't come to grips at all about the end of the human species. This in itself seems tremendously pessimistic thinking from a human perspective, but optimistic about life.
The issue that I find interesting is the interplay between our predictions for the future: climate change is certainly going to be a difficult challenge, and the rise of drug resistant bacteria being even more alarming as we've had a 70 odd year run successfully fending off bacterial infection; with our own personal behaviors. Our use of antibiotics makes a fascinating story with regard to our behavior. I don't think that my view of the outcome would be termed "optimistic."
From an ecology point of view, we are driving a huge extinction of life on Earth even as we succeed. Given that there have been other extinctions in the history of Earth I'm not worried that life won't continue, and anyway, most of the biomass is tied up in single cell life... multi-celluar life being rarer. And the ants have an equivalent biomass as us humans, and I don't doubt that they'll figure something out in their own social order approach where ours might not. Anyone who's climbed in Yosemite off the beaten path recognize the ants as a real force.
And finally we get to contemplate the ending of the universe that we know... coming up sooner than later, but in a time so far removed there will be no memories of our own ideas regarding it when it happens.
But I'm not being philosophical here, just applying what science we've gleaned over this few hundred years of doing it.
Newton did and wrote so many amazing things, but of his wonder of that we have tucked away in his book Opticks
I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
while I do not have Newton's belief in absolute truth, his sentiment is clear and has my deep empathy.
Dingus McGee, what's got into you, boy?
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, if you are bored with smooth pebbles or pretty shells I'll stop showing you, or you can stop looking...
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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Finally something not dumb!
Thanks Ed......" My Hero"
Peace
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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Ed, You've probably posted this somewhere but what specifically is your field?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Attempting all fields?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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hey there say, ed... wow, ed... i just stepped in here, to see what this thread is about... as--if turning the ol' pages of a newspaper, that arrives, everyday... or, checking out a magazine...
thought i'd stop on the page and say this:
wow, i love this way of presenting how you feel about life, etc:
I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
thanks so much for sharing this...
hee hee, you forgot one things though:
you are a little boy with a camera, and a really great eye, for photos, :)
awwww, a boy and his sea shore...
or a boy and dog...
or a boy and his woodlands and rocks...
or a boy and CAMERA, as well...
happy good day to you, and as the holidays roll, like waves,
along shore, ever nearer...
may the time with family and loved ones, be sweet!!!
and even picturesque... :)
and --if you don't have a pup-dog... hope you get to pet-and-enjoy
a good friend's puppy, :)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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What a beautiful string of b.s. portraying the scientific endeavor, Ed.
Now please acknowledge the warts.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
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Rick, huh?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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ah rick, so predictable...
but you can learn about warts yourself, you can do it! I'm optimistic!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wart
There are as many as 10 varieties of warts, the most common considered to be mostly harmless. It is possible to get warts from others; they are contagious... They typically disappear after a few months but can last for years and can recur.
and it opens the door to the fascinating discussion of viruses, both real and metaphoric...
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Dec 20, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
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Huge thanks to Ed for his patience and perseverance here, posting thoughtful content.
And yes, in person Ed is fun and engaging and all smiles.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
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I went to UC Berkeley and obtained a BA in Physics
then to Columbia U. obtaining a MPhil, MSci and PhD
my dissertation was in Experimental High Energy Physics...
I taught Physics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst for 9 years
then came to LLNL for the past 20 years, expanding my interests and investigations
I'm married to a plant ecologist who was a classical history major when we met at Cal
and our child is a biochemist
my father was a physical chemist/solid state physicist
my maternal great grand mother had a mechanical aptitude (all the male aspects of that side of the family were rather transient and largely unknown to me), I still use tools from her tool box
that should put it all in perspective
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 20, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
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hey there say, ed... i can't do this now... but someday...
wish i could just talk to you a bit...
my daddy took physics... he wanted me to, and i tried... it was interesting, but i was too slow... never pursued it...
i wish to understand more about how my daddy thought...
perhaps someday, talking to those that love or have taught physics, might help... well, just a thought, as i just read that you taught this... :)
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
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Thanks Ed!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
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I only understand about half of what Ed says, but if he's got rick summer shook up it must be all good.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 20, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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, how brilliant! I see you do not know the motive of my post.
I do! Winters are long cold and windy in Laramie and you like yanking on Ed's chain!
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Swami Jr.
Trad climber
Bath, NY
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Dec 20, 2014 - 06:05pm PT
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Ed Hartouni is one of the reasons I still check in at Supertopo. He is bright, diverse, and seemingly cool as hell, though I've never met him.
Go Ed!
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Dec 21, 2014 - 07:38am PT
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I like Doc Hartouni. He's smart, thinks about what he says before he says it. Likes music. Likes people. Likes climbing. Likes the Earth.
I wonder if he skiis? I can't recall him ever talking about it.
I am waiting for his first completely off the wall post, just to shake things up, but you know physicists, they've got a thing about predictability. On the other hand, they are not intimidated by time, so who knows.
That's time running along the bottom axis, the rest is secret physicist code. Where is Fourier when you need him?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Dec 21, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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dingleberry mc hick sure does come across as someone who should be wearing the dunce cap and sitting in the corner...
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 21, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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It seems everyone who's met Ed, and many who haven't, are speaking up here to confirm he's a solid guy, honest and widely interested in the world. A fun guy to climb or just talk with; someone who has accomplished a great deal with his life.
Perhaps Dingus McGee's friends should speak up here with similar words about him. This thread he started sure makes a bad impression.
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kennyt
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 21, 2014 - 11:46am PT
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He may be wasting his time.
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kennyt
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 21, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Hey moose I sent you an email
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
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Chiloe,
I will fill in here for an impression you seemed to have failed to submit[notice?] when you said:
This thread he started sure makes a bad impression ...Of some ST posters who have a lack of reading comprehension and a lack of the ability to make consistant critical thinking assessments about people.
I really did get the gem I was hoping for in my motive for posting this thread.
Ron Gomez gets a zero in his ability to do critical reflective thinking when he said:
Be smart enough not to think that if someone doesn't have your opinion, you or other's are considered dumb. Ed's not dumb enough to not listen to other opinions, I wouldn't consider myself "smart", but I've had the pleasure of talking with Ed and enjoyed giving and listening to each other's views on whatever the subject.
Ed and others have their opinion, experience and education....so do you dingus, respect it and move on.
Peace
I then condensed this: Be smart enough not to think that if someone doesn't have your opinion, ... respect it and move on.
Surely his advise if used on me must be applicable to ED? That is, could Ed have respect for the deniers opinions and move on? We have yet to see this.
I see no where in this text that I criticized ED. So in the end I got here on my own, I seek no help from friends and I can keep my head while others all round are losing theirs. No honest spears have been thrown, it is like approaching the hen house. A lot of cackling.
Wisdom for today: Your worst days climbing are better than when your posts on ST are misunderstood creating the cackling you like.
led 6 pitches at Guernsey State Park while this went on.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 21, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
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I will fill in here for an impression you seemed to have failed to submit[notice?] when you said:
After this latest proclamation my impression remains what it was, this thread was brought to us by internet assholiness. What Supertopo needs so much more of.
Ed has described his own motives many times. They aren't what you are projecting on him here.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 02:17pm PT
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Chiloe,
big boy it looks like you are unable to address the just of my post... and have resorted to using implied labeling. Can't you say what you mean?
Never mind if you are too lame.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 21, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Just what is your real intention here Dingus?
It's not real clear, or are you playing devils advocate on these guys.
If you're pissing off Chiloe and Gomez then you're doing something wrong.
They don't deserve that.
These are good guys.
WTF are you really up too here?
Make it clear and stop trying upset these guys .....
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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WBraun,
I am bouncing back to them a similar form of treatment and judgement that they used on me.
And it seems they can't take it.
Now, the kettle called the pot black:
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 21, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
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OK, now it's clear to what you're doing.
I will observe ......
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Dec 21, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
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I like the way this troll thread was turned into an appreciation thread.
SuperTopo wins this round!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Dec 21, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
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I only gave this thread a cursory read and can't ascertain the point. I will say Ed is a climber's climber and is a good guy to be around. He was more than willing to (and did) give his time to speak with me when I asked some professional advice, even though we only know each other casually through ST and Facelift. Great guy!
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
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I like the way this troll thread was turned into an appreciation thread.
Wear rosy glasses if you want to see a rosy world. You must be dizzy if you think you spun something around.
edit: dents in the fender of brand new car in the lot are noticed easily when you take the glasses off.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 21, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
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when Ed gets fed up -
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
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moosedroll,
good one! Yes, in some way I have taken a measurement and found out the locality of entangled particles.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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That is, could Ed have respect for the deniers opinions and move on? We have yet to see this.
my dad used to say "respect has to be earned," and the "deniers' opinions" don't come close to having earned my respect... though I've worked through many of the papers they cite.
Sorry old boy, if you don't want to read my posts on the Climate Change thread, don't click on it... don't see how this has anything to do with you, and you missed the mark in your OP title, too, as I pointed out above in this thread.
As interesting things appear regarding Climate Change, I'll keep posting them to that thread... you don't have to read those posts. But I don't consider you to be the hall monitor for STForum either; in fact, you argued against hall monitors I believe...
maybe you should be less concerned about me and post up something of quality, you seem to be attracted to trolling when you are capable of posting some much higher quality content. It would be really great to see that.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
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To me, and I am the epitomy of internet assholiness, Ed seems one of the most educated voices of moderation on the Taco. He climbs a shitload, posts great TR's, and graces us with his intellectual thoughts. He never seems particularly belligerent, and offers lots of well researched insight on both the routes he does and the world around us. Ed Rocks! Never met the guy, but would rope up with him anytime. So hes got that going for him. Which is nice.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Dec 21, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
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97% of peer reviewed studies support the theory that Ed is a good dude. I know, I know, you're going to tell us that recent years have seen a hiatus in Ed appreciation. But the fact is, Ed appreciation over the last few years has been at record highs, just as the models predicted.
8^)
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
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Ed,
read me carefully--some subtleties here you missed. the line you site:
That is, could Ed have respect for the deniers opinions and move on? We have yet to see this.
was a statement about how the conditions your behavior would be proper if we were to apply on you the Roy Gomez [he says you are his friend] respect/prescription of when to move on from a topic. Note the Gomez respect/prescription was specifically applied to me by Gomez and I then suggested, why not apply it to Ed also..
But, ...respect for deniers opinion is not at all what I ask of you. In fact I ask very little of you except one clarification early on. Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. is an interesting tale about misunderstanding conditionals.
...let us Suppose...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
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Dingus... why troll?
Now with all that deportment bestowed on you, if your sound explanations don't ring with them what is the problem if it is not their dumbness?
You'd have to ask them, I suspect it is because they couldn't justify our collective energy production behaviors if we knew that it was so altering the climate. They feel that would be immoral, so they prefer to believe that the science is incorrect. The fact that they cannot show that doesn't seem to deter them from their position...
But why does this matter?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
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Ed,
Now with all .... was my question to gain a better understand your previous post's meaning when citing the dictionary post on the word "dumb".
Is it trolls or moles that make mountains out of ant hills?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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Dingus... why troll?
A case of the pot calling the kettle black??
Now was't it you that started the thread about how from the ground up constitutes the best first ascent? And then deleted it??
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 21, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
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Uh, nope; Ed doesn't troll; it's not his nature.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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lol,
Mark
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 21, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
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Ed as troll?
I repeat my earlier position:
This thread is dumb.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 07:42pm PT
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Now was't it you that started the thread about how from the ground up constitutes the best first ascent?
didn't say that... but that is what you read. And I believe you can still go an look at that thread if you want, you just can't post to it.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2432877&msg=2436661#msg2436661
if you thought it was a troll perhaps you should examine your reasons for believing so... it was no troll.
You could accuse me of being a polemicist, however, and make a very good case for it.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 07:54pm PT
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Trawl dammit. The word is trawl.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dec 21, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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Well certainly not in competition with solar radiation.
Our CO2 means nothing.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dec 21, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
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Does our Phd of record have his own global network of temperature
reporting stations?
Do they send him encrypted data with a high certainty
it has not suffered 'man n the middle' falsification
to support a political belief?
Didn't think so.
Most all the Warmists rely on a few to massage the surface station
temperatures records and then they write pro AGW papers. While ignoring
that the satellites have never seen any global warming
and glacier melt back is due only to pollution.
His hands are clean and his heart is pure.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 21, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
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WTF. Another whole thread devoted to the Eddie appreciation (or not) band wagon.
Yes, he seems to a wonderful human being, a first rate teacher with infinite patience, a first rate scientist and intellectual, a down and dirty climber and great partner, generous, considerate and also a flaming progressive ,overly concerned environmentalist, fellow traveler about this stupid anthropogenic climate change crap.
So whats new?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
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OK Dingus, maybe you're correct about "dumb"
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dec 21, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
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Smart enough not to be a rent-a-tool for the Progressives.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
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Bruce Kay,
the catch all applicable to Ed:
[3] or of otherwise [quite vague but its your definition from somewhere?] disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2014 - 09:45pm PT
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Jim B. tired, I will email you an answer later.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 21, 2014 - 10:07pm PT
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Ed never gets tired.
Edit:
Dead on!
VVVVVV
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 04:38am PT
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okay
Ed ...the best style
Indeed that style measure yields far from the best
If you recall I refused to participate because style is not a word us sport doggers use.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 05:30am PT
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Jim Brennnan,
you ask
Please offer up you education and acumen involving physics, climatology and mathematics
the short version: In 1970 Dr. Ralph Hunsinger offered me a research grant to make a one dimensional cloud model at Atmospheric Science SDSM&T. I decided to figure out how rocks break instead.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 06:54am PT
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Bruce K,
you say
and furthermore if it is substantive then strongly presented is justified.
Nothing about a post on style can be substantive as it is purely a dream in one's head.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 08:00am PT
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Bruce K,
the physicist has dipped his toe into trolling waters thinking it was a fish lure. His record is not 100% clean for the purposes of FBI files. It seems he could not handle the turbulence to stay in until the setup spontaneously ran out of energy. Entropy
edit: Can someone post a picture of Ed on the Beautiful Decay Thread?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 22, 2014 - 08:17am PT
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Oy, Dingus.
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Barbarian
climber
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:18am PT
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Not sure about this thread nor the concept of educating the "dumb". From the definitions supplied, it seems it is not education the "dumb" are lacking. It seems that it would be quite easy to be uneducated, but still not be "dumb".
I'm pretty sure that Ed, who is both educated and intelligent, is capable of making that distinction.
But this thread isn't about Ed...It's about someone's perception of Ed.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:20am PT
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Dingus McGee with Ryobi gas machine. Almost Terminator looking ....;-)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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I like this image better, too bad we couldn't get the images from the climbing store wrestling match...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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Yeah, not every day you get yer neck broke, wrastlin' in a climbing store, On a dare ....
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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I do! Winters are long cold and windy in Laramie and you like yanking on Ed's chain!
Ed's chain is not easily yanked. I've never seen him lose his cool.
Dingus McBolt on the other hand.....
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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survival,
What do you notice? Ed seemed quite distraught [losing the cool] the day he pulled thread and in fact did not post any answers.
your memory however seems quite shallow.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 22, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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I realize I'm late to this party, but Ed's posts are ones that I always read. Whether he writes about climbing, physics, or life, he writes something worth the time to read, absorb and, ultimately, enjoy. Most remarkably, this is true even when we disagree.
Maybe that's just a characteristic of physicists, since I could say the same things about jstan's posts, but I'd have to add mathematicians to the select list, too, since I can't think of a post by rgold or jogill that I would ignore, either.
In truth, we are blessed with many gems on Super Topo, but I can't think of anyone that outshines Ed.
John
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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I think it would be much more informative to us if Jim Brennan would tell us what he would like to do to Dingus McGee rather than what he would like to see Ed do to Dingus McGee.
Can the man speak his mind? From what I can tell he has posted his vicarious sadistic wishes as projected to ED for the man of action?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Dec 22, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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I suppose a dumb bomb would look like the inverse? of this.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
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Jim,
that was a great punch, I did wonder why you capped Planck. I loose this observation hands down.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
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Chim chim,
I bet that the black object in the two photos you posted are full scale replicas of your body part that lead to you getting called shorty.
shorty Dan
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Dec 22, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
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What really disappoints me about this thread, other then not understanding half of it, is that it's rather upsetting.
I've had the privilege of climbing with Dingus, even hanging his own draws for him on a route he established likely before I knew my multiplication tables. I've also had the honor of not only climbing with Ed many times, but also having him as a mentor, who still to this day, drops a moresol of perspective from time to time on life, love and the pursuit of happiness.
What is truly, truly sad is that I know, without a doubt, these two would have a blast holding a rope for each other. And that is the upsetting part.
I may be buzzed from some tasty Yuengling, but other then having dinner with George Lowe and lunch with Jim Whittaker, I have never been in such close proximity of amazing individuals.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 22, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
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I've climbed with Dingus and I had a blast, don't know how he felt about it, but I always enjoy an outing with McGee...
[EDIT] I know this factoid only makes the thread more confusing...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 22, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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Nice shot The Chief..as usual...rj
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 22, 2014 - 11:48pm PT
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Mike Friedrichs and myself introduced Ed and Dingus, and we've all climbed together and shared laughs, belays and camping at at least there crags. Life is odd....
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Dec 23, 2014 - 12:02am PT
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Is it life that is odd, or the funhouse-mirror version of life that seems to be a feature of internet discourse that is odd?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 07:46am PT
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What an overly sensitive group here on ST. Not to mention the lack of reading comprehension skills present that must lead them to overtly wrong conclusions.
I could give or setup for the rascal Bob Scarpelli a similar roast and he would be laughing his head off.
He knows that there are few universals applicable to most things [people included] and that one good counterexample to a universal changes the context of the statement from all, never or none to some.
Most judgments about people would be better served if we silently add the word some. I didn't do it here.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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We're just built for butt hurt!
A good human observation well stated.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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Milktoast for the win
and McGee just stop wasting your life with this stoopid sh!t give us more real world hardware tips and construction ideas .....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 09:43am PT
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I wonder if he skiis? I can't recall him ever talking about it.
I skied a few times, but I'm dangerous... I don't like to talk about the reasons (since it sounds like male bragging) but I found that I don't have a fear of going fast and being out of control. And skiing takes place on moderate slopes, compared to climbing, I can't gauge the peril, so I'm up to try any ski run, even those way beyond my skill.
This is a general problem for me, so I have eschewed the "human projectile sports" more or less... I recognized this in my youth driving motorcycles with little regard to physical law... bicycling riding somehow crept in, but a 1/2hp motor doesn't lead you to much danger, except when used to ascend to a point from which to descend.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:52am PT
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Dingy wrote
Jim Brennnan,
you ask
Please offer up you education and acumen involving physics, climatology and mathematics
the short version: In 1970 Dr. Ralph Hunsinger offered me a research grant to make a one dimensional cloud model at Atmospheric Science SDSM&T. I decided to figure out how rocks break instead.
Yeah so what? I held a fellowship at Purdue that doesn't make me an expert. Also getting offered grant $ and being successful with grant $ are two very very different things. Lots of good sales men out there but who knows IF you could or couldn't have delivered. You never tried.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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Ed,
from you,
I wonder if he skiis?
Seem you mean me? Yes, I do ski, but I can see that we have different problems. I learned to check my speed in every manner I could and I have no great desire to go fast.
I like maneuvering, no thrills from the open slopes so I ski moguls and trees but each event with different skis.
My problem: Some of my friends have taken me to their favorite places [narrow chutes] in the worst of conditions. Retreat is about impossible.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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kev,
the point of my post is that if you are offered a grant without solicitation, someone else other than you felt you knew something about the topic unless they are desperate to get someone as it sounds you are in this case -- Desperate to prove what non sense of a handle you can get on me.
You have added the word expert. I made no such claim other than possibly the implied point that this offer to Jim Brennan's polite request may be construed to mean I understand the climatology, physics and the math of the topic of global warming.
I feel some "untrained" people are capable of making a good arguments and sound observations hence I do not need to know their background to give them consideration.
Edit:
Apparently you need not be known as expert to be ask to review papers. A group here at UW were to present some papers for the Jounal of Rational Mechanics. They ask me if I would review them. After several days of denial they agreed that I was correct and they were mistaken in some aspects of multipart momentum transfer. They told me I would be second in the authorship of the paper. I told to them to forget it as I did not need to be known as an expert in this particular part of J Rat Mech. Inadvertently, my name appeared last of the group on these papers.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 11:53am PT
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DMT,
that was a great movie, thanks for reminding me.
Didn't the old man win?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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How about something a little more cutting edge, such as non-vectorial mechanics or take it up a notch and wrap your mind around some Hamiltonian-Jacobi Mechanics applied in a robotic context.
RATIONAL mECHANICS IS SO OLD SCHOOL, Thats what IM TALKING
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Studly,
Are you adding to the cutting edge or is this just mindless name dropping? Nothing of my past is cutting edge today. But we can think of you as a know it all cutting edge hero for your post?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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Ed said;
I don't like to talk about the reasons (since it sounds like male bragging) but I found that I don't have a fear of going fast and being out of control
Sounds like you should take up big wave surfing. ;)
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
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"human projectile sports"
Ha! Skiing can certainly become that having hit trees and rocks myself not to mention star fishing down a slope. But what I really hate is when climbing becomes a human projectile sport!!! Too funny.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
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I skied a few times, but I'm dangerous...
Just think you could have been a stunt man. If they had cast Jerry Garcia instead of Roger Moore in "The Spy Who Loved Me" you could have been his stunt double!
I know, I know, I'm dumb.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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Dingus, just yanking your chain. When you yank peoples chains, expect them to yank back! Have a happy holidays and don't get none on ya if ya know what I mean.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
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Old men always lose..... eventualy
Not to pollute a thread related to the prince of sciences (at least that seems to be what my physicist cousins believe) with an observation from the Dismal Science, but isn't that just another way of stating that famous Keynesian observation that "In the long run, we are all dead?"
I say this because it is my considered opinion, and one of my continuing ambitions, to prove that age and cunning beats youth and raw talent.
John
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 02:15pm PT
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JEleazarian,
Odysseus, upon his return from Troy, wagers to you [the suitor] if you can lift the bed of he and his wife, he will leave and you can have the beautiful wife. If you cannot lift it then you leave. What will you do, Strong Boy?
No mortal yet had lifted the bed in previous challenges.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Dec 23, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
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Still, it does take teamwork in order for one to know that something smells fishy here.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
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actually the "moving the bed" challenge was Penelope's test to see if the beggar was Odysseus, after Odysseus and Telemachus and the two loyal servants dispatched the suitors (with the help of Athena).
maybe time to re-read The Odyssey? a much better use of time than prolonging this thread.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
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Ed,
it seems you keep coming back, and your time? You seem unable to apply your line of the value of time to your musings
And that all said, there is a reason why the bed could not be moved. Maybe you could reread the story? As I see it the reason the bed couldn't be moved is far more significant than for an internet traveler to quickly come point out part of my story was wrong.
Sigh!
My post to JEleazarian was a creation of mine using some historical facts of the Oddessy and the nature of the bed. You sleep you loose.
Please post something applicable if you want credit for the right reason why the bed could not be moved.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
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i've been out observing Diachea leucopodia (seems oddly appropriate for this thread), had a 12 mile ride on my Elliptigo, checked in on stuff going on at work...
and will begin to photomontage images from Yosemite for use in the new guide...
oh, The Odyssey isn't considered literal history, but it is a hell of a good story, including the part about the bed being made out of the live tree around which the bedroom was built.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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6a : lacking intelligence : stupid
b : showing a lack of intelligence asking dumb questions
c : requiring no intelligence dumb luck
7: not having the capability to process data a dumb terminal
O.k., so Ed is calling me dumb, so now what?
If he is proven wrong what do I get to call him? Arrogant? Condescending? Or dumb (as in #7) for not being able to process the data logically, or more importantly, in a dynamic fashion.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
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did you even read my post Bluey?
people posting to that thread are anything but "dumb", at least in the first 5 senses of the word...
and actually, if I thought people were "dumb" in the 6th and 7th sense why would I post to the thread at all?
Dingus is the one that called you dumb... he may have a point.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
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Dingus is the one that called you dumb... he may have a point.
O.k., so you are calling me dumb. I don't read Dingus posts because he's vitriolic towards me, I can do nothing sensible to him.
I honestly haven't read the posts, but it seems you're using an inane definition of stupidity or "dumb-nes" to classify people who disagree with you.
That definition cannot be applied to such an argument as this, This is waaayyy too dynamic and, frankly, unproven, unsettled science.
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John M
climber
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
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but it seems you're using an inane definition of stupidity or "dumbness" to classify people who disagree with you.
All that Ed did was copy the definition from merriam webster and then go through it line by line. Nothing inane about that.
I honestly haven't read the posts
You didn't read the thread, but you want to take what Ed said personally? Come on Blue..
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
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I know where Ed comes from and he is indeed somewhat humble, somewhat.
But to drop the Merriam-Webster of 'dumb' on people displays an aura or utter disdain and arrogance. I assumed Ed the 'righteous' was above this kind of condescension.
Whatever. we'll continue to see things differently. Cheers, Ed, have a Merry Christmas!!!
EDIT: Yeah, the English language as defined by the Merriam Webster Dictionary is something to take personally, Steve.
It's those darned book learners spray painting "We're better than you" all over your Norman Rockwell poster again.
F*#k you, jim! You seem to have the same disdain in implying, not only that I am dumb, but that I don't understand what dumb is.
You people really think you're smart and precious, dont'ya!
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John M
climber
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
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poor reasoning Blue.. He is arguing with Dingus Mcgee. Being precise with his words is important in those circumstances because Dingus likes to twist words.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 24, 2014 - 01:57am PT
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Somewhat? what the hell is that supposed to imply? I guess it depends on your definition of "humble" but I'll have to warn you....
get it wrong and you risk being labeled arrogant, for some reason.
do you comprehend the English language? It IS possible to show humility on some things and arrogance on others, hence, SOMEWHAT humble.
I dig Ed, and when it it comes to climbing and stuff he is utterly humble. But, like others, if you disagree with him on Global Warming you are quite quickly relegated to idiot, flat-earther status.
Whatever.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 05:54am PT
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Ed,
your way: search the internet -- post some non applicable text you found while surfing as if it were the Gospel and pin all answer. It seems your posts often lack thinking to analyse what is the key rebuttal here and they fail to be very relevant. How about taking some time to give us some though out answers?
How does a mortal [Odysseus] make a bed that no mortal can lift? Your last response to this was just more web text or a caricature of it.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 06:04am PT
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Bruce Kay,
We're just built for butt hurt!
Dabble all you want with the climate thread.
The butt hurt is in the billfold --- $$$. Getting people [countries] to reduce CO2 emisions is a daunting task.
Who gives a Fook if you could convince the Chief and others of anything? Winning them over is statistically insignificant.
It makes no dents in the real problem -- some would say a waste of time.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 06:19am PT
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bluering,
I don't read Dingus posts because he's vitriolic towards me, I can do nothing sensible to him.
Maybe so, but don't totally give up, I am changing some of the ways I respond. Sorry to hear you have seen it this way.
D
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 24, 2014 - 06:20am PT
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And some would say it isn't.
It's fractal of a larger challenge.
Now Whitney threads... There's a waste of time!
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 07:05am PT
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Jaybro,
the quash of the Chief.
Fractal or not? How much political clout does the Chief carry?
Some people have strategies for what they do. I guess with the climate thread the tactic is I will beat my head on the table and maybe I will convince these dumb heads they are wrong.
Where is my input and energy going to have the most effect? Not a consideration on that thread.
I don't think the Chief holds the key log in the log jam of preventing change.
We will form an army of persuaders-- about half the people in this country are Republicans and they watch their $$$. They are not wrong all the time.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 07:32am PT
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Do you want to win an argument with a Republican??
Simple: Show him he is losing $$$ and by making a change he would have more $$$....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Just making sense is not enough as they do not look at cents, only $$$.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 07:34am PT
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Yes .... Americans worship the dollar ....
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 07:40am PT
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DMT,
okay Republicans are not the only ones that cannot change. I support your counter example.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 08:05am PT
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Bruce,
show 'em how they save $$$ and they too will change. They lack curiosity for making such a change? Not the correct observation, Bruce.
Republicans are not without curiosity. They do have a curiosity as to how they could make more $$.
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John M
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 08:21am PT
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show 'em how they save $$$ and they too will change
way too simplistic…
you could eat rice and beans with a few veggies for the rest of your life and be healthier and its cheaper.. but how many people would do that.
you could drive an economy car instead of a pickup truck and save money.. but ask a Texas republican to give up his truck.. Or Montanan.. not happening.
Your argument that Ed is wasting his time is also too simplistic. Ed isn't strongly invested in saving the world. He is more strongly invested in understanding the science. Arguing a point is one way to try and better understand that point.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 08:25am PT
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the answer Republicans need for modifying their behavior towards global warming is a demonstration that if they don't change, holding on to the staus quo is going to cost 'em $$$. And on 2nd though this will not work.
Since they mostly do short term thinking, the rate of interference by global warming is not much of a consideration as they don't feel any urgent threats caused by its progress.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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DMT,
This demonstration has yet to be delivered the problem here is that this demonstration is sort of a circular argument in that we can argue that if they fail to notice, then the current demonstration was not yet the demonstration to be delivered.
your point is sort like what some Christians say, "when enough destruction has happened they will then believe in God."
Otherwise your point well taken.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 24, 2014 - 08:58am PT
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Why? Perhaps we have grown insensitive to the cry of the wolves. Perhaps we are paying attention to the often stated agendas of which this is part of. Perhaps we don't want to return to the stoneage and our reduced numbers living underground like weasels or Bruce Kay.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 08:59am PT
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Bruce,
Hurricanes can be seen and we have some history on these and now we have folk tales to transmit the gory details.
Not so with Global Warming.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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rick sumner,
you will never be living underground like a weasel. You will be dead too soon to note much change.
And are you saying that global warming will make humans live underground like weasels?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Dec 24, 2014 - 09:14am PT
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kev,
the point of my post is that if you are offered a grant without solicitation, someone else other than you felt you knew something about the topic unless they are desperate to get someone as it sounds you are in this case -- Desperate to prove what non sense of a handle you can get on me.
You have added the word expert. I made no such claim other than possibly the implied point that this offer to Jim Brennan's polite request may be construed to mean I understand the climatology, physics and the math of the topic of global warming.
I feel some "untrained" people are capable of making a good arguments and sound observations hence I do not need to know their background to give them consideration.
Well I wouldn't have used the word expert if you hadn't started spraying about grant $ and expertise stating
In 1970 Dr. Ralph Hunsinger offered me a research grant to make a one dimensional cloud model at Atmospheric Science SDSM&T. I decided to figure out how rocks break instead.
I could care less about who your prof was at school. In the future, if you're actually going to name drop, it works better with someone who is very well know in the field your name dropping in.
Why don't you actually talk about the 1-D model that someone was hot to give you grant $ for that you didn't take instead? I'm tired of your attention whoredness - Why don't you show me some actual scientific acumen (and by that I mean something with some actual math)that's not lacking in originality or STFU about your climate non expertise.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 09:20am PT
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sully,
I appreciate you try but ....Just more text. You need to add a little thinking.
the clue lies in ," how skilled so ever. Any good literature requires some additional interpretation to understand the fine details.
We know the bedroom was made from a hollowed out tree. How could a bed that is contained within a tree be too heavy to lift?
A skilled person [Odysseus]] could carve the bed within the tree such that the central portion of the bed remained attached to the tree. What mortal could lift such bed? Not even Odysseus could and he knew it. Only a god could move it.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 09:31am PT
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kev,
how skilled. another broken record that just keeps playing the same notes and can not move on.
I don't owe you anything -- even the time of day.
Why should a guy that can work exercises out the book Gravitation offer you an evidence as to his understanding of differential geometry?
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John M
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 09:31am PT
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anybody can spot that distinction and anybody can sense that no one would wait to see "proof" before acting..
theres the rub.. you say no one would wait, but in reality many would. How many people every year have to have a heart attack before they change their ways. They know that they have high cholesterol, they know that they don't exercise regularly enough. They know that their diet is poor, yet they do little to nothing until they finally have a heart attack.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 09:45am PT
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John m,
you have posted cases of when people are given the data and they do not move. You are arguing the negative case to disprove that any positive possibilities could exit. INVALID
Singing the right tune can move an individual. What is the data that will move people on global warming? Is there any? You tell me?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 09:48am PT
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Dingus McGee -- "Singing the right tune can move an individual."
Yes ...
But Bruce Kay over sings .....
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John M
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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I don't believe that their is a tune that people would listen to about global warming.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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actually my post on the Odyssey came from the recollection of just reading it... not from a web search....
but if you want to continue to make your point, which I guess is that my thinking is of the "shallow kind" then you can make up anything you want.
This contributes to your own narrative of someone who is intelligent, has learned on their own, and relishes living on the outskirts of the "learned society." In particular, you love to poke pins into what you perceive to be inflated egos. And in so doing, you derive more self satisfaction than you would in some collaborative effort to explore an idea. You don't need, nor can you tolerate collaboration.
Anyway, since I appear to be a foil for your current schtick, and an attractant to your thread (having used my name in the OP title to draw attention to your current conversation) I will follow your apparent desire to cease posting up my shallow thoughts on your threads.
I have no doubt that you will continue to be a "critic" pointing out the deficiencies in my arguments and ideas. Thanks for that, it is an important component of working through ideas... and I apologize in advance if better ideas coming from such discussions fail to acknowledge your (future) important contributions to them...
You should still go back and re-read The Odyssey, you might see it differently after hearing many others' interpretations of what you apparently have concluded is your own best reading of it. I've made it a habit of re-reading many of these classic stories throughout my life, as it is amazing how one's perspective changes with the acquisition of more experience. But that's just me.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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W braun,
Bruce is challenging the other Dingus not Dingus McGee.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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Ed,
the view of Odyssey that I tell here is from a critique of it that came from a course by the Teaching Company.
I will follow your apparent desire to cease posting up my shallow thoughts on your threads.
Good! Does that mean a little more thought will happen instead of posting just another big web-article of little relevance?
Anyway thanks for the gift of participation -- you are a worthy player for argumentation.
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John M
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:12am PT
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Its how you tell it Dingus.. as though you know best. Which is funny, because thats your complaint about Ed.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:18am PT
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But
Dingus is optimistic about educating Ed, based on the evidence here.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 10:21am PT
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John M,
not exactly, as I did not post some insert about the Odyssey from the Web nor the Teching Company, but was brave enough to post it as I remembered it and told where that point of view came from. I know that that view is just one interpretation, but I like it.
Has Ed coughed up any interpretations? NO.
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John M
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:25am PT
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I know that it to is an interpretation, but I like it.
my point was that the language you use does not convey it as an interpretation, but rather as the only interpretation. Much like Bruce.. So you end up butting heads, rather then discussing. I find that few people respond well to head buts. And thus learning is often blocked.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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Braun says your an idiot.
I never said anyone is idiot.
I said you talk too much, way way too much and make up sh!t that was never said ....
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 24, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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do you mean it?
According to time and circumstance it has meaning and it may be valid ......
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 11:43am PT
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I don't believe that their is a tune that people would listen to about global warming.
Your post above John M [people = republicans and deniers? only?] otherwise you are adding to the basket of ideas that Ed is spinning his wheels.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 11:47am PT
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Bruce,
...stupid ST users. are you willing to go along with this phrase as you were with the phrase Stupid Americans?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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john m,
the language you use does not convey it as an interpretation
I beg to differ as in that same post I said:
Any good literature requires some additional interpretation to understand the fine details.
I don't think some additional interpretation means there is only one interpretation as the very meaning of the word interpretation is that you will make some judgement.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 24, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
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Has anyone ever seen Ron Anderson and dingus McGee together?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2014 - 05:19am PT
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sullly,
I do appreciate how you posted your expertise on a relevant matter so tersely. Thanks for the directions.
Susan Peplow posted:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2248848/7-Ways-To-Be-Insufferable-on-Facebook-Taco-Forums-Blogs
After reading her[long & thought out] post I see applicable: //annoying statuses typically reek of one or more of these five motivations:
//
2) Narcissism. The author’s thoughts, opinions, and life philosophies matter. The author and the author’s life are interesting in and of themselves.
Actually the whole study is applicable to these ST forums. Thanks Susan.
Great thanks to Bruce Kay for his insistence on critical thinking. We have got to be able to apply it to our friends' dumb ideas. Otherwise we may be going down that "Infamous Creek" with them without a paddle.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
In What Time Zone Am I?
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Dec 25, 2014 - 09:00am PT
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Possibly of this sort Ms. Sullly?
It's gotten rather deep on this thread.
Susan
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Dec 25, 2014 - 09:17am PT
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Wait a minute, isn't it Christmas Day today? Oh well, gotta get in at least one to hold my place in line. Line for what you ask. Beats me.
Like I pointed out a ways back, something smells fishy about this whole [sic] endeaver.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 25, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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I read/studied the nuance of the Odyssey in a college English Lit. class. Best literature class I ever took. I was high most of the time in some classes, but that one was always got my attention, I looked forward to it despite my hatred for English Lit classes. I guess the story and discussion of it always intrigued me. Great f*#king book, but you have to read Homer's version.
It's a great story for discussion.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 23, 2015 - 06:07am PT
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Is the troll half empty? Or half full?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 23, 2015 - 08:25am PT
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Yeah, the best version of the Odyssey is definitely Homer's!
For the best translation, I go with Fagles.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 23, 2015 - 08:46am PT
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the best version of the Odyssey...
I beg to differ... the best was the Armand Assante version. 1997.
"The gods cannot do for man what man must do for himself."
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 23, 2015 - 08:50am PT
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Good to hear from you, High Fructose.
I still go with the best "version" of the Oddysey is Homer's! ;-)
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