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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 15, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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Over the years, ne decades, there has been ongoing double-sided diatribe about Wing of Steel. Was it a good route? Was it worthy of el Cap? Did the FA party belong up there? How much shite does it take to ruin a rope?
This thread is not about WOS.
Instead, I want to point to a lesser-known route by Richard Jensen. Another route on el Cap and quite near WOS. Jensen did the FA of this route solo in 32 DAYS! and it is rated VI 5.10, A5. Let me repeat that...
A 32 day solo FA on el Cap rated 5.10, A5 done by someone who some believed was not worthy.
The route is called WINDS of CHANGE and was done a decade after WOS.
The route had a rather convoluted second ascent in '95/'96 by Grega Lajen and Iztok Mihev . They climbed half the route from the base and then descended, walked to the top, rapped down and climbed the upper half of the route.
Here is a video of a solo ascent made by an Italian (I believe).
https://vimeo.com/42181541
I post all of this because it seems to me that Jensen's hard-core climbing achievement was completely glossed over by the rhetoric about WOS.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Dec 15, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
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Meh....Drilled when on the Octopussy section. WTF?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2014 - 01:20pm PT
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Are you sure Jensen drilled those holes or could it have been another party on Octopussy? It seems strange that someone who had already done five pitches of A5/A4 lower down would suddenly start drilling on easier ground.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
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Huh. Seems kinda trollish to me.
Not trying to be. I just wondered why he got slammed for WOS and ignored for this route.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 15, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
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Yes, don't forget Ring of Fire! Another hard unrepeated route put up by Richard and Mark.
Most significantly, Valerio made a solo ascent of Winds of Change, and he has written of it online someplace. Maybe someone can provide the link? It's pretty hard. The hooking on the first pitch - above that little pinnacle thing - has turned back many suitors.
Here's the thing about Richard - just ask him, and he will tell you. Everything. The truth. In excruciating detail. More than you ever want to hear. But that's Richard. [love you, buddy]
Hey Richard - did you drill on Klaus' route? If so, what and why?
Hey Richard - when I did Octopussy with Kate, I looked over at some of your Winds of Change anchor bolts, and they looked - how do I say this? - pretty ugly. Like crappy looking hangers, or crappy looking bolts, or something like that. I can't remember exactly. I just remember thinking they looked ... crappy.
Comments?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
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Crunch, thanks for the link. I actually did a search on ST before starting this thread and found nothing. Weird. If I had seen that thread I would not have started this one. Oh well. The more the merrier!
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OR
Trad climber
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Dec 15, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
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He joined my route Hole World for the last 5 pitches and drilled several bolts on this route that I had done the FA of just the year before.
I guess he's a good climber though
Yeah thats kind of weak sauce Eric.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 15, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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klaus
Big Wall climber
San F*#kincisco
Apr 28, 2006 - 02:27pm PT
Richard, tell us about how you joined my route Hole World for the last 4 pitches and drilled all over it.
klaus
Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Dec 15, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
He joined my route Hole World for the last 5 pitches and drilled several bolts on this route that I had done the FA of just the year before.
It's funny how 4 pitches became 5 pitches in the 7 years between posts.Kind of ironic considering klaus has claimed that Richard wasn't being "an Honest person."
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 15, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
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Yes in this day and age being a good climber and bolting pre-existing terrain are not mutually exclusive. He was a hard climber, but perhaps the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 15, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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It was 4 and 1/2 pitches so I rounded it up to 5 in my last response because those were the pitches affected.
Just going by the topos, it looks like maybe 4 1/4, but yet it affected the last 5 pitchs of your route.
Pitch 12 on my route had one hauling bolt next to an A1 anchor of as many cams as you want to place. He added at least 2 bolts here according to his original topo.
Funny that an A5 climber would do that, but what do I know, I'm a jerk for pointing these things out according to the Taco homos.
Your P12 is his P16. Yes, your FA topo shows 1 bolt and his FA topo shows 3. What is weird is that the printed topo just shows 1. Is the printed topo wrong? Or did 2 of the bolts get chopped?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 15, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
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Valero's topo of WOC shows WOC ending at his P12 and the rest as HW. I was looking at this to see how many belay bolts were there at Richard's P16, but this topo doesn't include belay bolts.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 15, 2014 - 07:25pm PT
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Can I climb the Great Roof and re-name it?
I think you have to re-engineer it, then you can rename it... If I get the gist of the argument right...
but I don't climb aid routes, so what do I know.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 15, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
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Additionally, I find it amusing and lame that he would NAME a pitch on my route that was already there. Can I climb the Great Roof and re-name it?
What pitch did he name? I see a bivy spot named--am I missing something?
Also, if he did doesn't this explain it?
He had no idea that there was a route called Hole World until after he did WOC.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 15, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
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The greatest roof.
Boom.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 15, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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^^^^
hahahahaha...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Dec 16, 2014 - 01:29am PT
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He had no idea that there was a route called Hole World ... Ignorantia juris non excusat.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 16, 2014 - 06:14am PT
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This Jensen reminds me of myself.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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This may be an impossible to answer question, but with all the traffic on el Cap (even a decade ago) how do we know for sure that Richard drilled the additional holes on routes he joined? Could it have been someone who did Hole World, etc. BEFORE Richard did his solo route?
Are we relying on word of mouth or did Richard flat out state that he drilled holes on existing routes?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Dec 16, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
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My speculation was based on word of mouth.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Dec 16, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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2nd ascent of hole world....2011.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Dec 16, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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I wonder if the person's name wasn't Richard Jensen if this conversation would even be happening.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 16, 2014 - 04:16pm PT
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klaus
Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Dec 15, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
...
Additionally, I find it amusing and lame that he would NAME a pitch on my route that was already there. Can I climb the Great Roof and re-name it?
klaus
Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Dec 16, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
"What pitch did he name? I see a bivy spot named--am I missing something?"
He drilled a belay anchor in the middle of my A1 pitch under the roof, and then named it.
Is that not clear?
No, it is not clear. You said he had the audacity to "NAME a pitch on my route" and that you find it "amusing and lame." So I looked at the topos to see what you were referring to, and I see on the topo that he did NOT "name a pitch" on your route. He put in a belay anchor right where he first reached your line (and remember he didn't' have your unpublished topo and didn't know that it WAS your line). Apparently he bivied there and designated it on his FA topo the "Under His Wings Bivy." This is on his hand drawn FA topo, but not on the published topo. This is not "renaming" a pitch--this is like me penciling in at the place where I spent the night "Camp Sunrise" or whatever on a map of an existing route.
So your claim that he named the pitch is wrong. He labeled the bivy he made (and remember when he labeled it thus he didn't know it was on your line.) This is the second claim you've made that is false. Earlier in a post here in 2012, you said, "Hey Richard, how come you never mentioned the last five pitches of Wind of Change were actually my route Hole World" when the fact of the matter is that after Richard learned that it was your route, he clearly marked this on the FA topo. It is also clearly marked on the published topo. EVERYONE acknowledges that the last 4 1/4 pitches are YOUR'S. I don't know what else you are looking for on that?
You are also still very angry over his putting in the belay anchor right where his line meets your's. I read the other threads on his and saw that he explained that he was at the end of his rope and didn't even know that it was your line. Sounds reasonable to me. I don't know what you would have had him do, but you're having none of it.
The penji to the crack--that is a more reasonable gripe, but the rest don't seem to hold much water.
I have to be honest--you appear to be very angry and unforgiving over items which should not disturb you so much. It's not clear to me why you are so still so upset, after all these years, over things that shouldn't have upset you to begin with.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 16, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
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I wonder if the person's name wasn't Richard Jensen if this conversation would even be happening.
Yes, it's hard to imagine what else is behind it, if it's not just deep-seated irrational hatred of Richard Jensen and everything about him. This isn't about anything he did or didn't do.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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Why are pitches of A1 getting names at all?
Interesting question... how hard does a pitch need to be to get a name?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 16, 2014 - 09:01pm PT
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"A1 Glory" should always be used, and profusely.
Or the better "A1 Glory for Miles"
*not that these are used here, but who doesn't love fast and fun A1?
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Dec 16, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
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Klaus climbed harder than most of us will ever know. He didn't have big fat peckers to turn everything into A1, he didn't drill convenience bivy bolts everywhere, he f*#king cared. He has a right to an opinion on these matters, more right than almost all of us (in the whole world).
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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Whoa ....
So a guy who brings death says Klaus never had a pecker ...... :-)
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Dec 16, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
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HA, that was a good one Werner!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 17, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
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lame to avoid three or four drilled placements with a pendulum I agree - a very strange thing to say. Sounds more like a troll.
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JakeW
Big Wall climber
CA
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Dec 17, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
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It seems completely appropriate to add holes to a route called Hole World...probably the best possible place to do so.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 20, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
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Next time don't climb my route if you're not up for the climbing
What a strange thing for Klaus to say. It makes me wonder if he suffers from schizophrenia, because cognitive dissonance of this magnitude is abnormal.
Some part of Klaus's mind understands and acknowledges that when Richard was climbing on that part of Klaus' route, and didn't know that it was Klaus's route and obviously didn't have a topo or any beta on it.
Some other part of Klaus's mind is out of touch with that and simultaneously thinks that Richard was purposely trying to trespass on and violate Klaus's route.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Dec 21, 2014 - 12:36am PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 21, 2014 - 12:46am PT
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I don't know Richard but I know Klaus and I've been to Yosemite a couple of times so I'm entitled to my opinion.
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klaus
climber
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May 27, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
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So it turns out that "graniteclimber" is in fact Richard Jensen himself.
richard, Madbolter1, or whatever your name is this week, I will call you Dick from now on.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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May 27, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
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Good to see you back, Klaus!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 27, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
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No need to be pissed off richard put up El Cap's hardest route.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 27, 2015 - 10:24pm PT
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Never seen a clearer case of pot calling kettle black.
There are things way more important than being a good climber.
Sucks when someone succeeds at the less important thing and fails utterly at what matters. I suspect your not as big an ass as you act like here..but I'm not sure actually.
OMG someone desecrated your dumb ass line where you impressed 50 people who even gave a f*#k...... dude.. climbing is ridiculous.. get over yourself.
If you impressed yourself.. be happy with it. You think your badass? mebbe so..it's hard to throw a rock around here without hitting some baddass...
often folks you never heard of and would never suspect..
Take your ball and leave already...WAAAAAHH.. oh yeah.. you did once.. lol... pussy came back.. didnt have the balls to stay gone.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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May 27, 2015 - 10:28pm PT
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Klaus, how do it know?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 27, 2015 - 11:03pm PT
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So it turns out that "graniteclimber" is in fact Richard Jensen himself.
I have no idea where you got that idea, but you are wrong. I use one handle here.
Give it a rest and get over yourself.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 28, 2015 - 03:49am PT
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all the fuss about one belay anchor ?ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 28, 2015 - 04:50am PT
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Tradmanclimbs - Come to Connecticut please!
Hi klausy class act as usual,
Please, try and exhale,
the best of you are great Yo Yos, the rest of us just punters.
Along time ago the hero train left the station
and you may have been on it
but few travel by train anymore.
Some recognize but less care, the purity of anything
Is long inter webbed
The term is plucked beyond recognition, or some such.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 28, 2015 - 07:43am PT
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Has anybody ever toted up how many thousands of bolts are on El Cap?
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miwuksurfer
climber
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May 28, 2015 - 09:35am PT
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People still aid climb?
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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May 28, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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Dude!
Klaus is LITE compared to Jensen.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 28, 2015 - 10:35am PT
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Everybody knows that Beyer is the hardest aid climbing mofo evah!!!
LOL
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 28, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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klaus
climber
May 27, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
So it turns out that "graniteclimber" is in fact Richard Jensen himself.
richard, Madbolter1, or whatever your name is this week, I will call you Dick from now on.
Klaus previously deleted most of his posts on this thread, and will probably delete this one also. He likes to hit and run.
I wish he'd left them up so everyone could decide for themselves just how rational or not he is.
Edit: I just realized that Klaus' post above is his only one on Supertopo. Did Klaus delete all of this posts? Or was he banned and had this posts all deleted? This might not even be the real Klaus. Are we being trolled?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 28, 2015 - 11:05am PT
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If graniteclimber is Jensen then I wonder why he ragged on me after I defended the WoS team.
When it comes to hard aid people admire most the person who puts up the highest numbers despite the fact that the person is employing the most damaging techniques.
After a few ascents it might not even be the same route any more.
Sick and selfish. Somebody said Beyers?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 28, 2015 - 11:12am PT
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"If graniteclimber is Jensen then I wonder why he ragged on me after I defended the WoS team."
Toker, where did I do that?
I "chose sides" long time ago on WoS and have been behind Richard Jensen and Mark Smith all the way. I made numerous posts over a period of years defending them and attacking their attackers. This is probably why klaus (or whoever that is) is accusing me of being a sock puppet for Richard.
There have also been times when I got into arguments with Richard, but that was in political threads, not on WOS.
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 28, 2015 - 11:40am PT
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Aid climbers sure love contrived routes, and contrived arguments.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 28, 2015 - 11:45am PT
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Are we being trolled
Haha.
Oh, and most of Klaus's routes have stood the test of time, both in grade and sustainability. Repeated by only those who were/are well traveled.
Of note, he has had a few routes "Fall off" so those are not in the discussion....
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 28, 2015 - 12:56pm PT
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Are we being trolled
Haha.
Oh, and most of Klaus's routes have stood the test of time, both in grade and sustainability. Repeated by only those who were/are well traveled.
Of note, he has had a few routes "Fall off" so those are not in the discussion....
What I meant is that this may not be the real Klaus. This may be an imposter. No argument from me on Klaus's routes. I have nothing but admiration for those.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 28, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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Klaus had a hissy fit took his ball and left a few months ago. Making sure all his posts were deleted.
Now he got drunk or manic or something got his panties in a bunch and couldn't leave well enough alone again.
For a guy who put up a lot of scary lines he sure doesn't handle simple human interactions with much grace. At the very least he holds grudges about trifles like few can.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 27, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
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Aside from all the whining, it is interesting to learn RJ did much more on El Cap than WoS. I had no idea. Watched the movie documenting the 2nd ascent of WoS, which was fairly interesting and showed both sides of the argument well.
Makes me happy both sides were happy with the way their arguments were documented. Also, think the whole situation got blown WAY out of the proportion. No one even got into a fistfight or broke anyone's face...
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