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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 30, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
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Someone took my BD#5 out of my bag while I was climbing at intersection rock (no I didn't lose it).
It is the new (purple) variety, and has green paint on the inside lobes (which is probably very difficult to remove).
If you see anyone around the campground with one, or trying to sell it, please let me know. I OW a lot and would like to get it back...
Also-- if any pad people are on this site-- if you drove off from joshua tree while leaving your chalk bucket on the top of your car, I probably found it. Describe it to me (and what was inside) and I can return it.
EDIT-- someone on mountainproject accidentally grabbed the cam, and is going to ship it back to me. All's well that ends well!
best
matt
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 30, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
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chalk bucket? in the winter?
therein lies the problem
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Nov 30, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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Matt, if I find it should I whack the culprit with the wider or closer lobe side?
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
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locker-- you are one big non sequitur.
clinker, you may wack the culprit using any technique you like-- I'd recommend the "swinging battle-axe" method
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2014 - 11:58am PT
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!!!! thanks so much for the link!
(faith in humanity potentially restored)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Someone took my BD#5 out of my bag while I was climbing at intersection rock (no I didn't lose it).
Glad you got your gear back but maybe that is a lesson in not jumping to conclusions
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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She's a witch! BURN HER!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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If the Camalot floats...definitely a witch!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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You're better off without it. Those things are junk. Get a big Friend.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I got full scale nOObery for you Locker...straight from the pages of Hot Belayer Magazine!
This is the day before Thanksgiving (last week). Echo Rock.
Sketchy climber on top of the fat flake at the start of Double Dip. "Belayer" perched on an anchor on the slab just left of Stichter Quits. There's 100 feet or more of rope between them and no protection points.
Physics done visually from below said she was definitely a road pizza skidmark if she fell, but sort of debatable if she would have actually grounded out (very close).
There was a third "climber" on the ground at the base who was absolutely convinced that the "climber" on route was in no danger at all. The "belayer" was completely oblivious of any of this. The woman on the route actually slipped and nearly fell off while downclimbing (at our request) the flake back to the ground.
I'm sure it didn't help when we walked up at the base with comments like "Holy SH*T!" "She's gonna DIE!!!"
If we hadn't happened on this whole clusterf*ck, the woman on the rope was totally planning to climb straight up Double Dip. I could maybe see someone doing this if they were rock solid (just using the rope as a sort of better-than-free-solo option), but she was NOT.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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The really scary thing is that you run across something pretty similar to this EVERYWHERE in JT if you happen to be dumb enough to head to the nOOb spots like Echo, Intersection, Old Woman, Atlantis, Lost Horse, etc. We saw even more nOObery over in Echo Cove that morning before we were over by Double Dip. Not as blatant as this, but obvious the "climbers" in question had no idea what they were really doing.
I really can't believe they're not scraping these completely ignorant gym rats off the ground on a daily basis during the "season" at JT. It's crazy. Not picking on gym climbers really, just can't believe they don't get a little more educated in something that could easily kill or cripple them.
Guess that's why we head for the dick-wrenching mega-classic obscurities most of the time...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Meh - most of the gear people place in that climb would probably just fall out anyway.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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I've stopped guiding in a lot of the more popular areas out here because of just this type of thing. I don't want my clients watching idiots trying to kill themselves. There are perfectly good anchors at the top of Double Dip inline of the climb.
Go grab a lawn chair, a beer, and camp out by Toe Jam and watch the "Belay Of Death" some time.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Wow, i have seem some goofy sh*t at Echo. but that is right up there.
I would really like to see a replay of the decision making process the belayer used. I can't imagine he/she actually led Double Dip and ended up over there.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Decision making? They saw the bolts and went right to them.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Steel.... at least she was using a helmet.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Edited to correct the horrible sentence in the beginning:
Yup, that's exactly what they did.
They saw the shiny objects over to the right. You have to top out on Double Dip by climbing straight up until it domes over. That's where the anchors are.
This is the same problem on Toe Jam. That's why I call it the "Belay Of Death". They completely miss the perfect horizontal crack at the top, and head straight to the rap anchors.
Aren't Gyms and Sport climbing areas wonderful places to spawn new trad climbers?
You don't even want to know what I have gotten for clients who are "experienced".
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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+1 caughtinside
Matt's that sux, but you do know that the purple 5s are just fist size, not ow. ;)
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okie
Trad climber
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Munge apparently has very, um, large fists, or so he claims... #5 fists? Bigger than Molly Higgin's boyfriend "Jim?"
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Like when that lady was knocked out (I was there, I think you responded via SAR)...
Yup, I was on that one. People get complacent with numbers (ratings)
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
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Update-- the mountainproject poster does in fact have my cam, and is shipping it back to me.
It sounds like there was a gear mix-up in the area. Sh#t happens, and it's cool how the internet lets you solve problems like this.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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It works best if you just watch out for your own & Fricken take it with you when you go ...camalots are junk anyway.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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I really don't like climbing around lots of other people. I was at Devils Tower a couple months ago and there was a Ton of people on the Southface most of the routes on the Southface go to the Meadows where everyone traverses above all the routes to get to the summit. We had left some gear in the Meadows and soloed to the top. When we came back someone had piled all their gear on top of mine. I took the rope off and stuffed the gear which I thought was all mine on my pack and then repelled. It turns out I had taken part of their rack but did not know that. It caused some uncomfortable moments when somebody came up to me and started saying I had their rack in my pack and I couldn't figure out why but eventually we sorted out. But later that day somebody pulled off a huge flake and it fell several hundred feet rolled down the talus quite a ways and hit some climbers that were walking down the trail After summiting for the first time. The rock was big enough that it caused compound fracture to the guys leg and the shrapnel tore up another guys leg. It was lucky no one was killed.
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CCT
Trad climber
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This may be a dumb question, but if folks are using the wrong anchors to toprope, why not put in some bolts in the correct spot? Looks like Double Dip is a semi-classic run-out 5.6 with an easy walk to the top, so exactly the type of route that's going to attract newbie climbers who f*up their TR's.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The young lady is lucky you showed up
that variation of Double Dip needs a name
Don't Quit or Double Drips
Send It or Bend It
Bitch or Quit
and that rope looks kinda thick, sure it is not a garden hose?
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CCT
Trad climber
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Ah, gotcha. I didn't see that post. Glad that no one in the picture cheese gratered.
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cat t.
Sport climber
CA
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Hooray!! Super glad your 5 resurfaced, Matt, and even more glad that people don't suck.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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That fall would have been very nasty.
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Rolfr
Social climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Steelmnkey,
Good that you convinced that women to down-climb before there actually was an accident. What disturbs me about a lot of the responses is the attitude of them noobies vs us. When did we stop being a community and become jaded to beginners?
The only way to change obvious bad habits is to politely intervene and offer advice, we all had to learn at one point. With experience should come a responsibility to share knowledge, not just sit on the side lines as a critical spectator.
40 years ago when I was a noobie struggling up my first 5.9, a legend in climbing, PC ,shouted and offered encouragement and advice while I floundered. That more than anything defined the meaning of climbing to me.
Matt, glad to hear that you got your cam back, it reaffirms my faith in the climbers community.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The difference is that many noobs think they know how to climb and are resentful when others try to give them advice about how to do it better, more safely, etc. I once saw a guy climbing a hand crack (well, trying to anyways) by karate chopping his hand in the crack until he felt like it stuck. I walked over and showed him how to place your hand, drop your thumb into your palm, etc. His friend, who he was showing the ropes, tried it, saying 'wow, this really works' and sent. The other guy mumbled, tried it half heartedly and then resumed with his karate chops. His hands were a bloodly mess, but too proud to accept advice.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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HOLY THREAD DRIFT!
I am hoping Matt's and his cam got reunited.
It's the kind of thing that is mid-December riveting when you got the 10-foot stare in the 8-foot room...
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Thread drift is sometimes a good thing. That photo from Steelmonkey is amazing.
And the Karate chopping post is priceless.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sorry about the thread drift... glad you got your cam back.
Rolfr wrote:
Good that you convinced that women to down-climb before there actually was an accident. What disturbs me about a lot of the responses is the attitude of them noobies vs us. When did we stop being a community and become jaded to beginners?
I think the type of stuff you would have seen like this 20+ years ago would have been much less of a shocking demonstration of ignorance about safe outdoor climbing practices, so I think the answer to that is that a lot of climbers became jaded when beginners stopped taking responsibility for actually learning something about climbing before they charged off to the outdoor crags and did stuff like this. Obviously doesn't apply to all beginners, but there are a LOT of examples roaming around JT these days. We saw two separate incidents over in Echo Cove the same morning prior to the one depicted in the picture. Very similar, although less egregious. The climbers in both instances obviously had nearly no idea what they were doing. Like I said, I'm really surprised they're not out there every day hauling out piles of crumpled mush that used to be people.
Edit add: Any new climbers who read this, please find someone qualified that can give you instruction on safe climbing practices, take it slow, and learn the ropes (pun intended). It should be fun, not deadly.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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What is the difference between a noobie and a B.A.P.(bay area puke)?
Is a BAP a regional type of a noobie?
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Lulz
Ice climber
North East
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@echo Holly shit! I guess they were climbing stitcher belayed from the top because it's a stretcher top-roping it with a 70m.
Why wouldn't the belayer move over to the anchor at double dip? Newbie central polishing this rock just before Stitcher Quits first bolt...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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"camp out by Toe Jam and watch the "Belay Of Death" some time."...
Like when that lady was knocked out (I was there, I think you responded via SAR)...
I believe I know the situation you're talking about. The belayer was not a noob but a very experienced and very good climber. Pretty much everyone was incredulous that he set the anchor there, he certainly knew better. Especially since the lady was a very game but not accomplished climber.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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That was the day that guy was killed on Intersection, IIRC. That WAS a bad day.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The OP was whining about about one measly cam? Last week at Indian Cove somebody walked off with my buddy's whole pack full of cams and sh!t. I started walking back to my
truck for my Glock 23 when at the next rock I saw the people who had been climbing next to
us. Yup, there was the pack although at first the dude questioned my assertion. Good thing
for him I wasn't on the way back from my truck. Turns out, as I suspected, that seeing as how
they were two families with a six pack of rug rats pandemonium was the order of the day and
when they left they threw everything in sight into their rigs. Doofus had left his pack on the
picnic table with all their stuff. DOH!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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oops. wrong thread. Now I got it figured out ;-)
Some years ago I was walking through that wash by Double Dip with a friend and his new GF. She new nothing of climbing and our mission for the day was to convince her it was sane. We demonstrated good safe climbing and she seemed satisfied. As we headed back to the parking area some nutjobs were engaging in a similar setup as in the picture above, but the climber fell and decked. As we approached the scene someone was saying "Dave! Dave! If you can hear me squeeze my finger!"
Certain climbing areas filter out the idiots. Others seem to be a magnet for those seeking to win a Darwin award. I think for the most part that the number of idiots on the rock is inversely proportional to the length of the approach hike (except at Tahquitz.)
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Hey Reilly...things have gotten more convenient.
Used to be you had to go in to Santana's to have someone rip off your pack!
You get at-crag service now.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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The point about cranky noobs is an interesting one and how climbing reflects the society of the day. Indeed Steelmonkey, usually we had mentors. Now, too many too soon just like in the surfing world and especially at Jtree.
True story....I started up walk on the wild side sans rope below a couple before dark. Man was belaying woman from first pitch anchors. Woman started to freak out and refused to go higher. Man started yelling at woman to "get the hell up". I, like a dummy, offered to help get her up through encouragement. Man started yelling at me. I did manage to calm woman down and get her to move but stayed a good distance away remembering that a drowning victim can drag you down as well. But man started to throw broken chips of rock at me. Not good without rope so down climbed outta there. I told man I'd be waiting for him at bottom but man and woman out-waited me until after dark. Don't know where the hell they went......
Lesson learned: Don't offer help between bickering couples and don't solo around people in general.
Steelmonkey, was that a couple? Also, Say hi to my good friend and mentor Mark Wagner if you see him...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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True story....I started up walk on the wild side sans rope below a couple before dark.
I thought this thread drift was to point out other people's bad decisions.
Just ribbing. Guy sounds like a real dick.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I thought this thread drift was to point out other people's bad decisions.
Yeah!!! WTF!!?!?! Lets try to stay off point here!! :-) :-)
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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nearly fell off while downclimbing (at our request)
In these situations I usually don't feel inclined to interfere with Darwin's important handiwork.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Aren't Gyms and Sport climbing areas wonderful places to spawn new trad climbers?
Why do you guys think those people in the photos are noob gym climbers? Maybe they don't give a sh#t about protecting a longass traverse on easy (for them) ground?
The point about cranky noobs is an interesting one and how climbing reflects the society of the day. Indeed Steelmonkey, usually we had mentors. Now, too many too soon just like in the surfing world and especially at Jtree.
That's why stories of some stonemaster dumbass leading with a noose around his neck are soooooo cool. It was sooooo awesome BITD.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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OK so back on topic.... Glad you got it back! The climbing community, noobs included (and this idiot) are generally a great lot....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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More OT drift...
My experience is that 90% of the time guys, newbie or not, are grumpy about getting advice is when they are with girls.
We just rolled into the turnout for OZ (JT.) There was a group there, 2 guys, two gals. They said they were going to OZ and promptly headed in the wrong direction. I called to them and pointed them the right way. The gals were all nice, thanks and all. The guys were somewhat hostile, didn't believe me at first, pulled out guidebooks, etc.
We caught up with them about halfway up the canyon, they were taking a break. As we passed them I noticed a bunch of Bighorns standing along the other side of the wash. I pointed them out. Everyone was surprised they hadn't seen them. One of the gals said to me "Wow. You'd make an awesome predator." Those two guys just about had smoke coming out of their ears.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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If you pointed me into the right direction infront of my female climbing partner we would need “to talk.” Big slap to the manhood. Ouch.
Must be all those HGH and testosterone pills gym climbers are into....and rap music.
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Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
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I'm guessing the belayer hiked in from the top and threw the rope down but the climber decided to head over and climb Double Dip instead.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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...in front of my female climbing partner we would need “to talk.” Big slap to the manhood. Ouch.
"...Predator..." Yeah, double whammy slap. Luckily we were going up to the Emerald City and our turnoff was right there. I made a quick escape fearing that I'd be covered in brain matter when their heads exploded.
Oh, and I'm delighted that the OP got his cam back, although for the life of me I don't understand the wide fetish. I get it when it's part of an otherwise wonderful climb, but to search it out for it's own sake?
;-)
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Why do you guys think those people in the photos are noob gym climbers? Maybe they don't give a sh#t about protecting a longass traverse on easy (for them) ground?
Um...because she was super sketchy on Double Dip, nearly fell of a few times while deciding if she was going to, and while downclimbing. Pretty obvious when someone is solid on that sort of friction terrain. And there was the interesting discussions going on both with her friend at the base, and after she had downclimbed about what a messed up situation she was in.
Edit: I thought Vitaly might be joking, but not sure. Just wanted to confirm this was a pretty sketchy situation. At one point, the woman stepped off the big flake like she was going to head straight for the belayer. Then she nearly fell off and quickly backed straight to the flake.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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I think Vitaly was being facetiious? At least I hope so.
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