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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 28, 2014 - 07:18am PT
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this story from wisconsin is interesting. what is the proper ethic?
ONEIDA, Wis. (AP) — A dispute over a nine-point buck in Wisconsin was settled with a coin flip.
Wisconsin's deer season was just a couple hours old on Saturday when D.J. Jorgenson says his 11-year-old son, Kameron, wounded the buck in the town of Oneida.
"Deer hit the ground, and it came back up, and took off running," Jorgenson said.
The father and son then tracked the animal through the woods to a neighbor's property, Jorgenson told WLUK-TV (http://bit.ly/1uGWtCm ). Before they could get to it, neighbor Randy Heyrman shot the buck twice from his deer stand to finish it off.
With the deer dead and the hunters deadlocked over who could keep it, they flipped a coin.
"So I dug in my pocket. I grabbed out a quarter. (Heryman) did the coin flip. My boy called tails, and it was heads. And (Heryman) said, 'Well, it looks like it's my deer then,'" Jorgenson said.
All Kameron got was a photo.
Hunters need permission to follow a deer onto private property, and the landowner has a right to take the deer, according to Shad Webster of the Oneida Conservation Department.
Even though Heyrman legally had a right to keep the deer, he said the coin flip was a fair way to settle the dispute. But Jorgenson disagrees.
"I wish he would have done the right thing to begin with. All my son wants is his deer that he shot," he said.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Nov 28, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Sorry Jingy, but us adults also make bad shots. It's a horrible feeling, but everyone who has hunted does it. I would have given the kid the buck.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2014 - 09:49am PT
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I think it kind of depends on the distance and time between the two incidents. you get a good hit, the deer sprints 100yrds and stops to bleed out, someone else blasts it and claims it, not cool. if on the otherhand you have a bad shot and are running the deer and someone else shoots it then it's their deer INMOP
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Nov 28, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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Split the meat, give the kid the head/rack.
Once you are hunting for "trophies" rather than meat, any question about ethics is moot. There are no ethics involved in trophy hunting.
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ruppell
climber
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Nov 28, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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First, no one said anything about them trophy hunting. The kid just happened to be lucky enough to get a shot at a large buck. It could have been a spike and the question would still be valid.
Second, whoever gets the fatal shot gets the dear. Look at it this way. If the other hunter wasn't there the father and son could have tracked that deer for miles. They may or may not have been able to recover it. They never got that opportunity because another hunter took it down. It's his.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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I tend to agree with that unless the other hunter was right on top of them in which case it gets messy.... It pretty common for a deer to run 100m and then stop and bleed out.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 28, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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Tami, good shooting. Bull's eye.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 28, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
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The 11 year old needs to learn to shoot. The other dude was a dick.
They could have split the meat. It takes two to tango.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 28, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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There are rules (by which I mean laws) involved in hunting. Hunting is serious business.
the 13 y/o needs to understand these rules if he is going to hunt. Rules are not "options" that don't apply if you are 13 y/o. It's an adult's business, it is not a game. When the buck crossed the boundary onto private property, he'd lost the animal.
He doesn't get points for wounding the animal.
The guy was big for doing the coin toss, he need not have done that, but gave the kid a chance. For those of you who are holy, God did not want him to have the buck.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 28, 2014 - 02:06pm PT
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Sort of like the grown man reaching up and snatching a foul ball away from a kid with a glove. Hunting is just a lot more pathetic than going to a ball game.
just kidding Ron
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rincon
Trad climber
Coarsegold
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Nov 28, 2014 - 02:47pm PT
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Look... hunters see themselves as one thing...
they claim to be at one with nature... closer to earth... a better brand of human. The kind you would always want to have on your team
Oh really? All hunters? Way to stereotype! Shows how much you know.
Here's one; City people hate hunting, but love beef from inhumane feedlots that's processed in slaughter houses with the worst working conditions imaginable, but think that hunting wild animals and eating them is mean.
Climbers just love to argue about ethics, even in other sports!
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rincon
Trad climber
Coarsegold
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Nov 28, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
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What's your point? You're also capable of thinking like a dick? Bingo!
Just an example of sterotyping jebus. My point is jingy is clueless about the sport of hunting, as are most people these days... because most people get their food from the supermarket and don't think about where it comes from...and it's not a pretty place.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Nov 28, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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It doesn't bother me that non-hunters are clueless about hunting. What does bother me is how many hunters are clueless about hunting.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2014 - 03:43pm PT
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There are rules (by which I mean laws) involved in hunting. Hunting is serious business.
the 13 y/o needs to understand these rules if he is going to hunt. Rules are not "options" that don't apply if you are 13 y/o. It's an adult's business, it is not a game. When the buck crossed the boundary onto private property, he'd lost the animal.
He doesn't get points for wounding the animal.
The guy was big for doing the coin toss, he need not have done that, but gave the kid a chance. For those of you who are holy, God did not want him to have the buck.
Bottom line, right there. You win some and lose some. That's what God rendered to the boy. (If yer a religious sort...).
EDIT: The best harvesters I've run into are SE Asians here in Northern California. They would climb the bridge girders for pigeon eggs, fish huge fish in tiny home made boats, and cull ducks from the city ponds. Those folks acted like they won the grocery sweepstakes! I bet they didn't give a solitary flying f*#k about sportsmen and their ethics.
Talk about no ethics! SE Asians and Russian immigrants are the worst poachers in the Bay Area!!! It's a DFG fact. Sturgeon, Abalone, crabs, etc...
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 28, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
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Hunting Ethics: If you kill it, you eat it. End of story.
I started reading the thread but after the OP I got bored so I thought I'd just spout this deep philosophical statement and see if I could get some hate.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2014 - 04:02pm PT
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was fishing the old San Mateo Bridge here, now know as the San Mateo Municipal Fishing Pier because that's all it serves with the advent of the newer, better bridge.
I hooked a nice Bat Ray and got him up onto the bridge and was preparing to release him. A 'SE Asian' man asked if he could keep it and I reluctantly gave it to him thinking he'd be humane and harvest the fish properly.
He cut the f-ing wings off the ray and kicked the wingless, live ray back into the bay. Who would do this to animal? Kill it outright and harvest it, but don't do that!!!
I've read multiple similar stories locally. The DFG is getting good though and the have cliff-side scouts now and Abalone/crab checkpoints.
The DFG is serious about this and they f-ing should be! The Abalone is getting decimated!
The wild boar/pigs in the area OTOH need to be seriously quelled. There are too many and they cause land damage.
It's all about conservationism and species management. Wisely.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 28, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
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Gooood.. Goooooood!
Feel the hate.
Let it flooowww.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 28, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2014 - 05:48am PT
"My point is simply that I don't understand why it seems so important to kill critters that are just wandering around for no good reason.
"Hunters somehow seem to always either be shooting themselves, or accidentally shooting their partners. I find a lot of irony in that. "
Yep. Yepppity-yep-yep-yep.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Nov 28, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
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"My point is simply that I don't understand why it seems so important to kill critters that are just wandering around for no good reason.
Were they Black?
That would explain a lot.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 28, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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Some shark got that wingless ray in no time.
Nature's way cruel, men are part of nature.
Shark paranoia leads to extreme behavior on the part of those not versed in the role of sharks as opportunistic predators.
Men organized huge rabbit drives here in Merced County years ago. It had its purpose--they kept the locals from harvesting more crops after all their arduous husbandry, while supplying some meat for the table, too.
It was just the way things were done, for good or ill.
Abalones will fly when we become perfect predators like the shark.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Nov 28, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Editorial+should+trophy+bear+hunting/8875726/story.html
Editorial: B.C. should ban trophy bear hunting
Killing the animals for sport is a practice that belongs in a bygone era
Vancouver Sun September 6, 2013
It is past time to put an end to the provincially condoned slaughter of bears in wilderness areas along B.C.’s coast.
The long-standing practice is part of a so-called trophy hunt in which tourists compete in a lottery for as many as 3,800 licences for the “harvesting” of bears in designated areas.
Hunters are accompanied by knowledgeable guides and use crossbows or high-powered rifles equipped with half-mile scopes. Some 300 grizzlies are killed annually, usually while feeding at salmon streams or by the shoreline. They are skinned, their heads and paws cut off, then left to rot in the wild. No part of the animal is eaten or used in any other manner.
The senselessness of the gruesome ritual was underscored this week with publication of a horrific photo showing Port McNeill native and National Hockey League player Clayton Stoner holding up the severed head of a five-yea- old grizzly that had been well known to members of the Heitsuk Nation. Stoner killed the bear last May.
Aside from the fact Canada’s grizzlies arguably constitute a threatened population — the David Suzuki Foundation is urging Ottawa to legally list Canada’s grizzly bears under the federal Species at Risk Act — this sort of gratuitous killing of animals surely belongs to a bygone age.
Public sensibilities have evolved, as is evident from a July poll conducted by Vancouver-based McAllister Opinion Research, showing 87 per cent of B.C. respondents favour banning trophy hunting for bears.
Indeed the Coastal First Nations, representing nine aboriginal groups living on the north and central coasts — where 42 per cent of the territory is open to a grizzly hunt — introduced such a ban in 2012. But it cannot be legally enforced because it is not recognized by the province.
While the hunt brings in about $350 million in tourism revenue to B.C., money that supports guide outfitters, hunting lodges and charter aircraft, a more modern approach can be taken that promises to be every bit as lucrative for players involved.
Just as African safari profits do not rely on tourists slaughtering the wildlife, and whale-watching tours do not permit rifles on board, there is cash to be made in conducting bear-viewing tours.
Kevin J. Smith, who runs a B.C. company organizing such tours, writes on his Facebook page that bear viewing is a fast-growing business. “Demographic trends and a growing eco-savviness of travellers means that environmentally sustainable and ethical adventure travel are increasingly the options people seek.”
And bear shooting, contends Smith, is not compatible with bear viewing, placing tourists at risk and chasing bears from the area.
He calls bear hunting resource-extractive and unsustainable, comparing it to “clearcut logging of ancient forest.”
Of course, he is correct. There is more value long term to be made in bear viewing. And, importantly, an end to the hunt would enhance B.C.’s international reputation for respecting the environment.
“Bears are not trophies,” says Jennifer Walkus, a member of the Wuikinuxv Nation, which supports the hunting ban. “They’re our neighbours and they deserve to stay a living, breathing part of the B.C. coast, now and forever.”
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 28, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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I must say, a hunting process that results in the entire harvest of bear meat being left to rot is nothing short of offensive.
I do have a problem with killing for the fun of killing. Subsistence is something else, but the fact is that hunting is not a particularly cheap way to obtain meat in the lower 48.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2014 - 04:48am PT
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I am definantly in the hunt for food catagory. you can't taste the horns but you can make usefull tools out of them. I know its not cheap but if you are going to eat meat venison is the most organic meat you will get you hands on.
Unless you are Vegan you have pretty much zero credibility in bashing hunting for food.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 30, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
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And what makes it even funnier is that blurag thought that the guy was going to be all humane, and shite!!!!
AAAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!
Mister man didn't realize what he was getting himself into and now he's turning pinko on us!!!
Remember "because most people get their food from the supermarket and don't think about where it comes from...and it's not a pretty place."
including the fishing holes, blew!!
too funny, for years this guy has been telling other ST's to sac-up, man up and all the other "good-old-boy" bootstraps talk... he see one piece of reality and he comes running to the board to let us know...
Ok, what if he just cut the head off into the water and walked with the whole body with the wings intact... that degree is ok, right? But throwing the body back without the wings... oh, man... you are mistreating a fish...
f-ing sissy
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I don't think you realize that you are the fool in what you just said. Read what I said, and then read your above reply.
You're a 'leg-humper' who needs to get f*#king life!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 30, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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"Why don't you go populate hunting sites with your idiocy now m'kay, thanks."
Ain't that a feckin' FAKT.
Too many goddam gunnutz threads here these days. They keep knocking polititard threads off the front page!
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Nov 30, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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For your bemusement.....
Of Moose and Men
(Alces pessimisticus)
The moose’s physiognomy is dour and lugubrious,
As though about his future he is cynical and dubious.
It may be that his sadness comes from knowing that he’s doomed,
And that by wolves or bears or man, he’ll finally be consumed.
And if he’s shot by humans, then his antlers or his head
May decorate a living room, an outhouse or a shed.
A gross and pagan ritual of most peculiar use...
It reassures the hunter that he’s smarter than a moose.
WM
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