Discussion Topic |
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 29, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
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I'll start with
surrogate male success.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Oct 29, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
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sublimated metaphysical desire
much like music
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 29, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
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tribalism...
ancient stuff indeed... all the way back in recorded history...
Bk VIII:104-151 The Sports Contest
With this he led the way and all followed. The herald hung the ringing lyre on the peg, and led Demodocus by the hand from the hall along the same path the Phaeacian nobles had taken to see the games. They headed for the gathering place, and a countless throng went with them. Many fine young men rose to compete: Acroneos and Ocyalus, Elatreus, Nauteus, Prymneus, Anchialus and Eretmeus, Ponteus and Proreus, Thoon, Anabesineos, and Amphialus, son of Polyneus, Tecton’s son. Euryalus too, the equal of Ares, destroyer of men, and son of Naubolus who in looks and form was the finest of all the Phaeacians after peerless Laodamas. And flawless Alcinous’ three sons as well, Laodamas, Halius and godlike Clytoneus.
The first trial was a foot race: they all sped from the mark along the course set out, raising the dust from the ground. Faultless Clytoneus was quickest, and taking the lead he reached the crowd, leaving the rest behind by as much as a furrow’s length in mule-ploughed land. Then they tested each other in painful bouts of wrestling, where Euryalus beat the best. Amphialus then leapt furthest, while Elatreus conquered with the discus, and Laodamas, Alcinous’ fine son, won in the boxing. When they were all satisfied with the contest, Laodamas, said: ‘Friends, let’s ask the stranger whether he’s practised in any familiar sport. He’s a fine build in thighs and calves, with two strong arms, a stout neck, plenty of strength. Nor has he lost the power of youth, he is only wearied with suffering. There’s nothing like the sea to sap a man’s strength, however tough he might be.’
Euryalus replied: ‘Laodamas, what you say is right. Go and challenge him yourself, and make the challenge a public one.’
At this Alcinous’ fine son came to the centre, and spoke to Odysseus: ‘Sir stranger, come, enter the contest too, if you have any skill as seems likely, since there is no greater glory for a living man than that which he wins with his own hands and feet. Come, prove yourself, and throw off your cares. Your journey will soon start. The ship is launched now and the crew are ready.’
Bk VIII:152-198 Odysseus enters the Games
‘Laodamas’ replied resourceful Odysseus, ‘why provoke me with a challenge? My mind is on trouble not on play, since I have toiled and suffered greatly in the past, and now I long only to return home, and so I sit in your gathering and plead with your king and people.’
Euryalus answered then, mocking him to his face: ‘Indeed, stranger, you look like a man unused to manly sports, more like the captain of a merchant crew, trading to and fro in a sailing ship, careful for his cargo, keeping a greedy eye on freight and profit. You are no athlete.’
With a dark look, resourceful Odysseus replied: ‘Stranger, you speak unwisely, you are a man blinded by foolishness. How true it is that the gods seldom grace men equally with their gifts, of mind, form or speech. One man is meagre in appearance, but the gods crown his words with beauty, and men delight in him as he speaks sweetly in modest eloquence, conspicuous in a crowd, and looked on like a god as he crosses the city. Another seems an immortal, but his words lack grace. You too have exceptional looks a god could not better yet your mind is crippled. You have roused my spirit by speaking rudely. I am no novice in your sports: indeed I was one of the best when I had my youth, and strength lay in my hands. While now I’m constrained by pain and suffering, since I have endured many things in my passage through mortal warfare and hostile seas. And yet, though I’ve suffered deeply, I will join your contest, since your speech has stung me, and your words have riled me to the heart.’
With this he leapt to his feet, still wrapped in his cloak, and seized a discus bigger than the rest, thicker and heavier by some way than those the Phaeacians normally used in competition. Spinning around, he sent it from his huge hand, and it hummed as it flew: the Phaeacians cowered, those lords of the ship and the long oar, beneath the flying stone. Flung smoothly from the hand, it sailed past all their marks, and Athene, in human likeness, pegged the distance, then, spoke to him: ‘Stranger, even a blind man, groping with his hands, could find your mark, by far and away the furthest, and separate from the cluster. You can take heart from this, at any rate: none of the Phaeacians will meet or pass it.’
Bk VIII:199-255 Odysseus declares his skill
Noble and long-suffering Odysseus was pleased by her words, happy to find a genuine supporter at the games. He spoke to the Phaeacians now with a lighter heart.
‘Match that, you youngsters: I expect I’ll send another along, as far or further, in a moment. As for the rest, since you’ve angered me deeply, if anyone has the courage and the spirit, let him come and prove himself, in boxing, wrestling, running, it matters not: let any of you Phaeacians try, except Laodamas. For he’s my host, and who would quarrel with the one who shows him hospitality? Only a worthless idiot would challenge the man who welcomes him to a foreign land. He would ruin his own good luck. But the rest of you I’ll not deny or disdain, wishing to know your skill and be matched with you. I am no lightweight in any of the sports men practice. I know how to handle a polished bow with skill, and I was always first to pick off a man in the enemy ranks, however many comrades stood with me to shoot at the foe. When we Achaeans fought at Troy only Philoctetes surpassed me. But I count myself the best by far of all the other mortal men on earth, who eat their bread. Still, I would not claim to compete with Hercules, or Oechalian Eurytus, archers who vied with the gods. That’s why great Eurytus died swiftly, and never reached old age in his halls, because Apollo, challenged to an archery contest, killed him in anger. And the spear I hurl further than others can shoot an arrow. Only in running I fear one of you Phaeacians might best me, since I’ve been thrown about by the waves, and on my raft I could not exercise, and my legs are weakened.’
They all stood silent at his words. Only Alcinous answered, saying: Stranger, since you are not ungracious, but wish to emphasise the skills you possess, and were angered because this man taunted you at the games, making light of your powers, in a way that none would who rightly knew how to speak; come, listen to what I say. Then you may recount it to some other hero, as you feast in your home with your wife and children, remembering our skill, the talents Zeus endowed us with from our forefather’s days. We may not be the greatest boxers or wrestlers, but we run fast in the race, and we are the finest sailors: and ever the feast is dear to us, the dancing and the lyre, fresh clothes, warm baths, and bed.
So come, you finest dancers among us Phaeacians, perform for this stranger, so he can tell his friends when he reaches home how we excel not only in swiftness of foot, and seamanship, but in dancing too, and in song. Let someone go quickly, and fetch Demodocus his ringing lyre that is somewhere in the palace.’
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
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Grand Faloon. . .A False Assocation...
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
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Well put, Munge!
Nicely quoted, Ed - the salad days...
Seems like it is not the same now? Although I agree with the tribalism - in a very loose sense of the word.
Edit: Agreed. Bullwinkle
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 30, 2014 - 08:10am PT
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Professional Sports Fanatacism is...
...very little different from religious fanatacism and fanatical patriotism.
And, along with those two, is at the root of much evil.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Oct 30, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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... a fantastic waste of time, if you got nothing else going on.
edit: and I suppose I was more referring to enjoying professional sports, rather than the fanaticism as well. That sh#t... beyond me.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 30, 2014 - 08:28am PT
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.... hooliganism. Hooliganism is.....
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2014 - 08:38am PT
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What a bunch of stupid blather.
Climbers are such pussies.
Always against sports.
Sports are good and if you don't like them go sit on your rock and turn into stone where birds roost and sh!t on yer head .....
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2014 - 09:43am PT
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Werner is painting a broader stroke than the OP:
Professional sports is non-participatory for 99% of the people who watch them.
The draw of the fanaticism and cult-like behavior of the observers has always eluded me - I would rather just be out doing some non-professional sport.
Good bait, though - fortunately I just had breakfast...
;-)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 30, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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....a helluva lot of fun.
Baseball fanatacism, that is.
The other sports....meh.
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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I, not events, have the power
to make me happy or unhappy today.
I can choose which it shall be.
Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet.
I have just one day, today,
and I'm going to be happy in it.
Groucho Marx
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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Huge business....there will come a day when professional sports eill constitute one of the largest segments of the GDP.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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Beer during innings, pullups between, on topic bitches.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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Just see....
MisterE is a lot smarter and doesn't fall for the "Duck" bullsh!t .....
:-)
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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hahaha lol
Russ for the kill.
Russ double pumps the ball and throws the 95 mph zinger to first for the out ......
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:57am PT
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Theres a lot of things I disagree with in Wallings troll, but let me cut to the the meat and gravy : baseball, or anything that demanded some athleticism. the part where he implies baseball requires athleticism... I laughed.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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Keep trying.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 30, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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Ever try to hit a 90 mph ball? Or 80 mph? 60 mph?
Just for the hell of it, go to a batting cage one day. It's harder than shit!
Lots of respect to anyone who can do this consistently, with accuracy and good placement.
i.e. Sandoval...that guy could almost instantaneously adjust to any kind of pitch thrown to him, and get a hit. Respect.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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You guys never seen Russ, largo, etc etc play baseball.
They kicked ass .....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2014 - 11:24am PT
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EVERY posistion in baseball requires more athlectism than is needed to be an offensive lineman in the NFL.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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The popularity of sports is the fact that it is spontaneous and it not scripted. Throw in a little drama and you got some good entertainment.
As for the manliest sport, I am going with bowling. It takes brass balls to don one of those dorky shirts and lace up those clown shoes.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Still one of my favorite baseball movies EVER.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
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Wailing, +1!
No athleticism required to hit a 95 mp fastball, or throw one?
Hmmmmm, yeah, okay.
I ignored televised sports for almost a decade. I think the steroid generation of baseball, and living in AK, did that to me. Got back into it slowly the past couple years. Baseball is the only one that matters and the only one I really care about.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
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Loved watching Panda playing third this series. He's a big boy and tremendously athletic.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
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do some weed
Lol!!!
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
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I would call the ability to hit a fastball hand-eye coordination learned through repetition. Not athleticism. Most ball players are at peak physical fitness and very athletic. Stick them at tight end/WR in the NFL, and many of them could play. Not a lot of room for athleticism in the bullpen however..
I like sports but I am not a fanatic. That sh#t went out of style along with nationalism
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
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CA.Tim, you are wrong. Again.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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Must wrestle giant foam carabiner and war paint out of trunk now at base of Cookie for team...
"Gehan Steinmeisters!"
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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Apogee loves sports so much he knows the difference between the AL and NL
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
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Not all sports. Just baseball.
The rest of them...notsomuch.
Tennis is pretty cool, though.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
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It takes tremendous athleticism for most MLB players to tie their shoes as they haven't seen them since high school.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
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The distilled duck goes pretty good with my salmon-salad sandwich today, but I think the fish might be a little gamey...
;-)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Oct 30, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
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I still don't get to climb with the cool kids, or picked for baseball. Screw those sports! Hah
No one likes to climb with the fat kid. Screw you climbers too!!!
Lol
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Oct 30, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
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Anyway, they had the baseball plagyers against the foot ball players... I was shocked to see the baseball players always won the event and even won the head to head strong many contests like tug-o-war.
The baseball players were clearly the better athletes.
Not many baseball players in this list. The only one I remembered without checking was OJ Simpson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars_(US_Version);
Ever try to hit a 90 mph ball? Or 80 mph? 60 mph?
Just for the hell of it, go to a batting cage one day. It's harder than shit!
The hardest part is to fix your eyes to 20/10 vision. Some of the top hitters say they can actually see the seams on the ball.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I can see this thread went in an expected direction...
my main issue with a 90 mph fastball is standing next to it as it buzzes by, forget about hitting it, just stand there when it tails over the inside of the plate... not a skill I have.
but athletics is about physical skill... and as Russ points out, those skills are recognized by our peers at an early age. The best skilled players of the children games are first known by the other children, then they are developed by the coaches and filter through an ever finer sieve of competition requiring not only a higher level of skill, but also the ability to perform physically.
It works in climbing, too.
At some level, the ability to train hard becomes important as the last bits of ability are wrung out of a body, a limit defined by the ability to recover from injury and physical abuse.
But getting back to fanaticism (sorry to correct the OP spelling error), it is the selection process that pulls us all in... since we were the ones, at some point, who were not selected to continue to play. But those who were came from our group, we were the ones to see the difference first, playing in the school yard, just a bunch of kids.
It is entirely natural to feel a connection to those best who were chosen. You see in in the quote from the Odyssey above, the Phaeacians choose the best gamers to compete, and to challenge Odysseus, the visiting stranger, who himself was the king of Ithaca and the best in all respects, including his athletic prowess.
We are compelled to recognize the superior skills of people, from our very earliest memories, and to take some credit for those who come from our own community, of the people we knew, and of whom we recognized that greatness.
Sports "fanaticism" grows from that connection. Modern sports are largely professionalized, and that professionalism has erased to some extent the regional character of the teams that compete. This is certainly for the better in terms of the professional athletes who can find a level of compensation that matches there ability... an ability that has a very short duration. One could ask what the price of a skill is, and how much would you take for your own skill, a price that is not just dollars and cents but the likely outcome that you would not be able to practice that sport again, a price extracted by the injuries sure to be from pushing to the extremes of performance.
Those players represent us... most of us are eventually left sitting on the sideline, un-chosen, and few of us, very few, go on.
Our fanaticism celebrates that brief, fleeting moment of athletic excellence, we all have a memory of such a moment for ourselves, and we project that onto those who are able to maintain that excellence long enough for us to learn about them and cheer them on.
There are climbers that very much fit in there, many of them are not professional. That is a harder life, and perhaps that makes their dedication and commitment all the more amazing. What I truly like about climbing is that we climbers, all of us, can pit ourselves against any of the hardest climbs done... we can walk onto the World Series Diamond and compete. And there is no debate about whether or not we have won, we get up the climb or we do not.
Those of us who do get up the most difficult climbs are the select few. And we rally around them, usually our local "heroes" and "heroines," as fanatically as any San Franciscan sitting in the rain for hours waiting to for a glimpse of their favorite player yesterday.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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"all desire is a desire to be"
Short version.
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JonA
Trad climber
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I'm a climber and I'm a special snowflake. Everyone should appreciate how special I am. Maybe if I rag on professional football and baseball players then that will help me deal with my crippling insecurity.
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kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
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Bottom line: I'd rather be participating in just about any outdoor physical activity than watching someone else be physically active. I find that I have to be feeling very sedentary to even contemplate viewing sports. Maybe if I was a betting man.... but I always find myself asking "why should I care who wins?" Back when I read paper newspapers, first thing I did was to pull out the sports section and recycle it. Division I college sports is absolutely corrupt - don't see how anyone can take it seriously. If there's a silver lining, I guess all this organized sports stuff keeps people on urban sports fields and watching TV and out of the mountains, so more space and solitude for us weirdos.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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I was pretty good at the 3 major sports as a kid. I was very competitive. Then I started to do the pot. Climbing is a good activity for that.
Go Blazerz!
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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Well.....didn't miss much being away from this site.
This is a climbing forum right?
If you ever passed on going climbing to watch the game..........
so your team won?
and then?
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John M
climber
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professional sports fan? So They pay people to watch sports? Where do I sign up? I want to go pro..
…..
professional sports fanaticism means..
less people on my waves, on my line, tearing up my pow pow.
plus come on.. professional sports fanatics means someone gets paid to play a sport. someone gets paid. And its not pounding nails, or driving a truck, or schlepping cement.. or any of the other vastly less fun things most folks do to make a living.
now.. where do I sign up to get paid to watch sports?
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