Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 50 of total 50 in this topic |
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
|
There have been so many crazy rules over the last hundred years.
Chalk.
Cams were actually debated. "Crack Jumars" they were called by at least one writer.
Yo-yo'ing. Pulling the rope but leaving the gear in. That was considered OK, but now it is a pink point or something.
OK. Help me out. List all of the rules, past and present.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
|
The crack Jumar was an early cam, actually.
http://www.needlesports.com/NeedleSports/nutsmuseum/camsstory.htm
Yo-yoing does not involve pulling the rope. It's left in place.
If you pull the rope and leave the gear in place, that's a pink point.
At some point in the early 90s, people started extending the definition
of redpoint to cover pinkpoint in terms of draws preclipped into bolts.
(In some real steep areas, draws are fixed).
"ethics" are supposed to be about making decisions when one person's actions affect others. Examples: bolting, chipping, dealing with crowded routes.
"style" is when your choice just affects you. Examples: whether you freed the route by one definition or another, what non-damaging gear you used.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
|
redpoint to cover pinkpoint in terms of draws preclipped into bolts
and to those people I say hang your own, or at least say it was with preclipped draws.
How about no chipping Base?
Or no power drilling in areas where it is illegal to power drill?
do you want it in the form of a question?
Like whether it is appropriate to sculpt hand holds in otherwise unclimable terrain, since cleaning a route of loose rock is acceptable?
set some rules for the rules! :)
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
|
*facepalm*
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
|
^^^ lol
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
|
Stuff like chipping has always been bad, but I've heard some stories..
Aid climbing rules used to be pretty big deals.
And yep, I should have made it a question. Maybe I can nuke this thread and start another, but I never start threads.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
|
Bolting easily protectable cracks is bad, Mmmkay?
|
|
Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
|
Bolting anchors instead of strangling trees with tat is preferable.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
|
adding bolts to an existing route without consent is a problemo
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
|
Hammering the crap out of C2+ is weak, hell hammering C3 is weak.
Get more gear, get better technique.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
|
Nice to see you start a thread BASE.
I have heard that bitd, there were a lot of rules about what you climb and with whom etc in regards to mountaineering. I know that actual climbing shoes were considered cheating when they came out.
In the Elb region of Germany, metal protection and chalk are still not allowed, and you can only climb towers, crags attached to hills are off limits.
I'd like to hear more about the ethics that existed in the 50s and 60s and when certain rules became passé.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 03:36am PT
|
How about the rap bolting vs ground up controversy?
Edit. I am talking about the advent of rap bolting in the 80s.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 04:13am PT
|
Kicking cats... not so good.
Drop-kicking yappy little pseudo-dogs? Priceless!
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2014 - 07:09am PT
|
I had been thinking of Hall of Mirrors and all of the slander that went around the valley. Geez, Madbolter, WOS was nigh accused of, well, everything. I was cowardly, and tried to fit in. It was a full time job.
Some of the old rules, which by God I followed like they were Gospels, now seem kind of silly. I watched the video of Sharma and Ondra on La Dura Dura, and that sorta set me in my place.
Long ago, I had been doing this one move wonder route and wiring the crux. One day I was there with a guy from Colorado who couldn't do it ( besides being far better than I), and got up the guts to solo it. He looks at me and says, "Just exactly WHAT are you going to say you did?"
See? I had done the route with a rope. The solo was tainted.
I knew that. It wasn't a secret. Everyone knew that I had it wired, and I'd been on many solo's before. Somehow it was an ethical breach.
|
|
Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 07:16am PT
|
Sticky rubber was debated. Some insisted that climbs have separate ratings for sticky rubber or that sticky rubber should not be used since it was "cheating".
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 07:21am PT
|
Lunging is cheating. The move is way harder when climbed static.
Please forward this to Sharma.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 07:23am PT
|
1. Don't die
2. Don't get hurt
3. Don't hurt the climb.
4. Do whatcha like
5. Be honest
|
|
yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:14am PT
|
Coveting is strictly prohibited
|
|
thebravecowboy
climber
hold on tight boys
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:17am PT
|
don't crap on the route
|
|
mike m
Trad climber
black hills
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:18am PT
|
If you have rules it is not climbing it is sport.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:25am PT
|
Is it ethical to follow rules?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:21am PT
|
I'm another gate in guy....those gate out folks wear crocs with dress socks.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:35am PT
|
Pink-point = Red-point. WTF?
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:44am PT
|
So my bud Geoff shows up in the meadows with white painters pants and black dress socks wtf? He proclaimed his retro coolness but ended up dubbed "Petered Croft" for the rest of the weekend.
|
|
kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:44am PT
|
When climbing, don't allow your impact on the environment to exceed the cumulative impact of: 1) the industries that created the vehicle that transported you to the crag, 2) the fuel consumed by that vehicle, and 3) the highways on which you drove. In other words, a little chalk on the rock is pretty insignificant compared to everything to which you've already contributed by purchasing a car and driving it.....
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:55am PT
|
Sleeping with your partner's girlfriend while he's off fixated on his lame sport project
Is this something we are required to do? Or forbidden to do?
And does it matter if he's trad climbing instead of sport climbing?
And also, does this apply equally to women? Are women required/forbidden to sleep with their partner's boyfriend while she's off on some lame project?
And what if the project is not lame but ultra-cool?
This is all very confusing.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 11:21am PT
|
Take it from FZ...
Do what you want.
Do what you will.
Just don't mess up your neighbor's thrill.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 11:40am PT
|
Turn the other way when your partner has to go?
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 11:40am PT
|
Don't pee on the belay ledge.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
|
I think Clint's distinction between style and ethics is important.
Personally, I care a lot about climbing ethics, but my only rule for style is "have fun."
Amen! My only personal ethical rule is to know and follow local ethics, although if I can make less of an impact, I will try to do that.
As for style, I aim to avoid yellow pointing.
John
|
|
Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
|
only criticize others' style/ethics online
cool dogs only at the crag
try to match other's fashion choices
no grid bolting unless you are a local
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:22pm PT
|
no dogs at crag is preferred because some of those dogs are bat sh#t crazy.
Ah, something salient from the Cummins Online Tome:
"For example, the term "free ascent" has perhaps been rendered meaningless. I intended it to mean anything where the (non-fixed) protection was placed free on lead, but the pitch was at least led "yoyo from no hands rests". Of course "yoyo from the belay", "pinkpoint", "redpoint", "flash", and "onsight" are increasingly better styles.
By this definition, Burk's ascent of the Nose is not counted as a "free ascent", because the Great Roof was toproped. However the first ascent of Hall of Mirrors by Cantwell and Burk was counted as a "free ascent" even though some sections of p13 were toproped (clipped on aid, then freed). Then there are the routes like the mid 90s ascents of Lurking Fear, Excalibur, and Muir/Shaft where gear was preplaced on aid. No doubt this was due to the many very hard pitches, to cut down on the time required, to keep things fun and logistically feasible. On the borderline are tactics like splitting pitches or using variations to avoid certain pitches/sections. Hopefully by providing the details, not much value needs to be placed on my usage of "free ascent" -- you can draw your own conclusions. Or better yet, go out and have fun climbing!"
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
|
Not writing apologist essays in climbing mags about how certain things are now acceptable or should be acceptable.
Propaganda is never acceptable.
|
|
thebravecowboy
climber
walking, resin-stained, towards the goal
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
|
I TR'd a new route into submission. A friend put in anchors at the top so we could quit rigging this jingus-mobile boulder. I doubt I could lead it even if we bolted it.
We should bolt it, unsafely, amirite?
|
|
Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
|
Harding just wanted to have fun and do his thing. Others didn't like that so much.
I find myself in the Harding camp too..
The only real ethic in climbing that matters is how you rack your gear...gate-in or gate-out. Without a doubt the most important ethical decision you can make is to rack gate-in. Gate-out is neither.
Yup!
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
|
Gates in on the rack.
Gates out on the harness for draws.
I don't like to conform.
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:48pm PT
|
... RULES!!!!???? I don't see it as rules - more like suggestions.
|
|
MH2
climber
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
|
There is a route on the Campground Wall at Squamish I cleaned and TR auto-belayed. I had a notion that I might get my name in a guide. George from Climb On and Joe Turley and a guy from California bolted and led the route, calling in Ancient Teenagers, unaware of me. I did not like that they broke it into 2 pitches and did not go all the way to the top, but had no basis to complain. Then the hangers disappeared from the bolts. A vexed situation. Both style and ethics are questionable in this case. Biner orientation was impeccable.
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
|
Pre-inspecting, pre-brushing, pre-placing, reinforcing/ enhancing holds, rehearsing moves (to name a few).
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 11:12pm PT
|
I feel that a well thought out list of ethics of life period, should cover all the bases.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 05:10am PT
|
1. Don't die
2. Don't get hurt
3. Don't hurt the climb.
4. Do whatcha like
5. Be honest
Climbski2 nailed it! He wins the thread!
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 08:21am PT
|
So Munge, when do we get to see you having fun climbing?
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2014 - 09:05am PT
|
cool dogs only at the crag
Dogs are in fashion. Everyone seems to have one who follows them everywhere.
My solution to reduce crowding at the crags is to shoot all of the dogs. And I love dogs. Have two of them.
BITD, we didn't have money to feed a dog. We practically lived off dog food ourselves.
Ahhh....happy days.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2014 - 09:09am PT
|
Pre-inspecting, pre-brushing, pre-placing, reinforcing/ enhancing holds, rehearsing moves (to name a few
WTF? You are EXPECTED to do that on FA's now. Jeff Jackson wrote a hilarious (but absolutely true) piece on how to put up a good route.
You gotta read this. I told him that it was a funny piece, and he said it really wasn't funny. It is all true.
So this is how it is today:
http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/tnb-5-ways-to-make-people-love-your-routes
|
|
Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:32am PT
|
Hanging belays = aid.
As is tape, climbing shoes, clothing, and Chapstick.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:53am PT
|
What is wrong with aid?... and if you are not hanging you obviously are not pushing your ability.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
|
You gotta read this. I told him that it was a funny piece, and he said it really wasn't funny. It is all true.
Funny as hell! A satire that is real in too many cases.
OT - When JJ first came on the scene in TX and OK I thought he was a bit of a poseur who sprayed a lot. In time it was apparent he could walk the walk.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
|
I am pretty sure glueing climbing holds on a blank section is not acceptable.
"Bend Over and Receive" (5.13b) in Cocaine Gully was a real low point in route-setting at Smith Rock - fortunately the route is now gone.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
|
I TR'd a new route into submission. A friend put in anchors at the top so we could quit rigging this jingus-mobile boulder. I doubt I could lead it even if we bolted it.
We should bolt it, unsafely, amirite?
Go ground up and drill from stance - that will solve your problem. Either you get past a bolt or youve got bolts to nowhere and you look bad/sad...Good training for the sac though
|
|
| Messages 1 - 50 of total 50 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!