Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Messages 1 - 61 of total 61 in this topic |
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 27, 2014 - 10:28am PT
|
This thread includes ISIS, but is not limited to them. It's about women in combat. That's why it deserves its own thread.
This is why I believe extreme Islam will never defeat the modern world.
They hide their women under veils, and don't let them go to school. In Saudi Arabia, where my oldest son was born, women are not even allowed to drive, or go to town unaccompanied by a man.
Our women fly helicopters and jets, become doctors, command troops and so much more.
Thank you to all the brave women of the world.
Tough, strong and resilient. And not really optional, in their case.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 10:40am PT
|
Women in Combat: somebody has to do bluering's fighting for him.
|
|
OR
Trad climber
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 10:49am PT
|
That did not take long Gary. Way to keep this thread another cesspool of insults.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:06am PT
|
There is a female fighter pilot flying the F16 for...UAE?..iirc.
Major Mariam Al Masouri, who was in on the attacks on ISIS.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:09am PT
|
That did not take long Gary. Way to keep this thread another cesspool of insults.
Glorifying war is the cesspool.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
-- William Tecumseh Sherman
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2014 - 11:15am PT
|
Hey spewioga, stfu!
This is simply a celebration of women and what they can do, after being told they can't do it.
If she can shoot straight, and is willing to lay down her life for your sorry misogynist ass, that should be good enough.
You have no idea about the incredible women I have learned from. So take your sorry prejudice elsewhere!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:17am PT
|
Women pilots?
It's a cockpit not a box office.
Besides, if a woman flies upside-down she'd have a hairy crack up.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:45am PT
|
Israel. Love to see peace happen for Israel, until then:
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:50am PT
|
Just what we need, another thread glorifying war.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2014 - 11:52am PT
|
Thank you Mr. Zero Trip Reports.
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
|
I actually really like your trip reports. However, I grow very weary of the numerous posts on ST glorifying war and promoting the killing of millions of muslims. It is a public forum, and I am just offering my opinion in a civil manner.
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
|
I'm guessing, we'll see more of it, esp in the Islamic World. Fact is, the male soldiers run and guess who's sitting in the village like "spoils" getting raped and sold into slavery? Yup, they have to take their future into their own hands. God Bless 'em.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
|
I understand. However, the thread is not an active glorification of war, nor killing "millions of Muslims."
This thread is to support women in the military, and in combat, who go against the old idea that women are too weak to fight for their country, no matter what or where the conflict.
The women in the OP happen to be Muslims, fighting against Muslims who are far beyond their belief and understanding of the religion.
My focus on ISIS? It only happens to tie into current events, not my overarching belief about women, and their ability to fight for what they believe.
|
|
Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
|
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
|
In about February of 1973, I got a letter from one of my main climbing partners - exiled at MIT while I was enjoying my final year at Berkeley - saying that he dated an Israeli paratrooper. He then referred me to a book with her picture.
As the OP says, we create a better world for all of us - not just women - when we insure that we have freedom to do what we will, regardless of gender.
John
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 02:47pm PT
|
Women pilots?
It's a cockpit
cockpit?
cockpit
cockpit
cockpit
So many meanings, so little time.
cockpit
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:42pm PT
|
I'll prolly get called a misogynist for this, but chix have a certain valuable role in the military, IMO. Women are more calculating and attentioned to detail, in general, than men. This makes them more suitable as pilots and Naval operations, or Army logisticians/medics.
Not combat trigger-pullers.
Women have indeed proven to pull their weight in air-combat ops.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
|
Women have indeed proven to pull their weight in air-combat ops.
More than that, misogynist. Women have proven to highly effective at blowing out the brains of fascists. A very good reason to go to war, btw.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
In 1941 – 1945 a total of 2,484 Soviet female snipers were deployed for the war and their combined tally of kills is conservatively estimated to be at least 11,280.
|
|
Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 07:25pm PT
|
As a Marine Scout/Sniper I have to admire the Russian Army Women Snipers.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 07:27pm PT
|
a correction, not on a AC130, but gunner on a pararescue Pavehawk
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
|
What..? No pictures of The Chief...?
|
|
Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 08:08pm PT
|
Trust me, I can pull the trigger bluey. Shame on you..
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Oct 27, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
|
Trust me, I can pull the trigger bluey. Shame on you..
I would never be on the wrong side of yer trigger, Michelle.
That wasn't my point. Most chix have no bizness in combat. Some do.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
|
Most dudes have no business there either.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 05:41am PT
|
Most chix have no bizness in combat.
Well, you chickenhawks aren't going to fight in the wars you clamor for, so the women have to do it for you, no?
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
|
It's beyond the scope of this article to debate the operational combat history of the Soviet Union's air forces, but I do mention this because it may come as somewhat of a surprise to you that the top-scoring female fighter pilot in history was out there flying the unfriendly skies and shredding Fascist fuselages in the name of the Motherland. Lydia Litvak, the "White Rose of Stalingrad" (she is sometimes referred to as the "White Lilly" as well, but I'm not going to argue semantics here), was out there testing her mettle against some of the most well-trained, battle-hardened, and highest-scoring fighter pilots to ever strap themselves into a cockpit, and spent some of the most critical moments of World War II making all of them her bitch.
Growing up in Moscow, Lydia Litvak always knew she wanted to fly, and she wasn't going to f*#k around with big dreams when she could have been out there doing awesome barrel rolls and finding out what happens when you barf while pulling a half-dozen Gs – she just went balls-out (in a manner of speaking), learned to pilot a prop plane by age fifteen, and was a flight instructor within three years. The same day that she heard our old pal Adolph Hitler had double-crossed Uncle Joe and invaded Russia in 1941, she was standing outside the military recruiting office looking to fly combat missions for the Soviet air force. The guy behind the counter told her that she wasn't eligible because she hadn't logged over 1,000 hours of flight time in her short, five-year career as a pilot, so she thanked the guy, walked up the street to the next recruiting office, filled out her paperwork, and put "1,000" in the box asking how many hours of flight time she'd logged in her career. Next thing you know, she was shipped out to boot camp.
It only took Lydia Litvyak two combat missions to score her first kill, shooting down a German Junkers Ju-88 bomber and becoming the first woman in military history to ever score a solo aerial victory in combat. About ten minutes later she became the first woman in military history to score two aerial victories, when she outdueled a badass motherf*#ker who oh yeah just so happened to be an eleven-kill fighter ace and a recipient of the Iron Cross. When this proud German officer was captured by the Russkies, he demanded to meet the pilot who finally took him out of action. Lydia walked up to him and stared him in the eyes, and of course this guy's first thought was that the Communists were f*#king with him and being total dicks by playing some joke on him. It wasn't until Lydia described the entire dogfight turn-for-turn that this guy's mind was completely blown. Since he'd been completely pwnd out of hand by this chick, he got really pumped and offered her the super-expensive gold watch he always wore around his wrist. Lydia didn't even look at it. She kept her gaze straight in the dude's eyes and calmly said, "I do not accept gifts from my enemies." Then she got so pissed that she went out the very next day and shot down another German fighter plane.
For the next year, the White Rose of Stalingrad ignited enemy fuselages up and down the Eastern Front. She was transferred to a Guards Regiment, the elite of the Soviet military, and flew as a Junior Lieutenant and Flight Commander in the recently-established all-female 586th Fighter Air Regiment. She flew bomber escorts, attack missions, and was so ridiculously awesome that she was given a James Bond license to kill at will – she was assigned "Free Hunter" status, meaning that she was free to go balls-out into enemy airspace without orders to do so. Over that year she flew 66 combat missions, sometimes four or five a day, including one attack when she busted through a gauntlet of AA guns and fighters to shoot down an observation balloon that was f*#king with the Red Army and helping Nazi artillery range their shells on Russian positions outside Stalingrad. So f*#k those guys. She notched twelve solo kills – the most of any woman ever – and had four or five more assisted kills. Basically, she kicked some Fascist ass.
Eventually, Lydia's luck ran out. In 1943, after an intense battle, the hardcore 21-year-old ace was last seen busting through enemy airspace and hauling ass towards the horizon being chased after by eight German fighter planes. One of only two female fighter aces in history (the other, Katya Budanova, was Lydia's wingman and was killed just a month before Litvyak – the two of them combined for 23 of the 38 confirmed kills of the 586th Fighter Regiment), Lydia Litvyak was never heard from again. Her body was eventually recovered in 1989, and she was posthumously awarded honors as a Heroine of the Soviet Union – the highest military award for bravery offered by the USSR.
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
|
Nice one Michelle.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
|
Hey couch, maybe you can size down that huge thing on page 1 a little?
PVT. CATHAY WILLIAMS, U.S. ARMY
Born into slavery in September 1844, Cathay Williams worked as a maid on a Missouri plantation until being “liberated” by the troops of the 8th Indiana Regiment in 1861. While strictly speaking she was no longer a slave, she was officially drafted into the Union Army as part of their support troops. For the next few years, she served the 8th Indiana as they marched through Arkansas, Louisiana and Georgia, and was believed to have encountered one of the handful of uniformed black regiments like the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry or the 1st South Carolina Volunteers, a unit of escaped slaves.
At the end of the war, Williams found herself working at Jefferson Barracks just north of St. Louis. After a year as a civilian worker for the military, she decided she wanted to serve alongside other newly free African-American soldiers, and after a wardrobe change and an apparently very brief physical, “William Cathay” joined Company A of the 38th U.S. Infantry Regiment stationed in St. Louis. No one in her unit (except a cousin and a close friend) ever suspected Williams, not even her doctors during a brief stay in a hospital due to a smallpox infection. After her unit moved to New Mexico, she served for two years before her worsening health finally lead to her being discovered as a woman.
Williams went back to being a civilian cook for the Army, and lived out the rest of her days in the West. She chose not to publicize her career, and her story became widely known only in 1876 after a St. Louis Daily Times investigator tracked her down. Close to the end of her life and crippled by neuralgia and diabetes, Williams sought pension and medical aid from the government for the first time, but despite the precedents set by Margaret Corbin and other Revolutionary War women, she was denied aid and died in a pauper's grave.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
|
Sorry, I don't think putting women in combat is anything to be proud of.
They have certainly proved their worth in combat, but that doesn't mean that's where they need to be.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 02:00pm PT
|
They need to be where they choose and qualify to be. Ability and desire are what should be the criteria.. period. In the military desire isn't even a major issue. You sign up they put you where they need ya.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
|
Sorry, I don't think putting women in combat is anything to be proud of.
They have certainly proved their worth in combat, but that doesn't mean that's where they need to be.
Why not? Please explain to me why you feel that way.
SGT. LEIGH ANN HESTER, U.S. ARMY
Official American policy is to allow women access to nearly every role in the armed forces except those that explicitly require front-line, face-to-face, infantry combat. Women can control fighter jets and even assault helicopters at the front because that would mean they would only be fighting with a rifle if they're shot down or under similarly unwanted situations, but they can’t be part of standard infantry, special forces, Air Force combat controllers or medevac teams, or even armor and APC crews, since all of these professions tend to involve small-arms fighting more often than not. If this doesn’t really seem to make that much sense, don’t worry, because Silver Star recipient Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester proved emphatically and empirically that it’s all a bunch of bull anyway.
Sgt. Hester was a Kentucky National Guard trooper and part of the 617th Military Police, escorting a supply convoy during March 2005 in what was supposedly a secure rear area in Salman Pak, Iraq (remember, most women in modern militaries get shuffled to second- or third-line areas where they’ll be “safe”) when roughly 50 insurgents snagged the entire convoy with RPGs and light machine guns in a carefully planned and potentially lethal ambush.
Hester ordered her squad to charge through the kill zone to reach a position where she knew she could fight more effectively, at which point she and her superior, Staff Sgt. Timothy Hein, personally assaulted an enemy trench with grenades and rifle fire. After a half hour of furious, close-range combat, 27 of the enemy had been killed, with at least three kills credited to Hester personally. Hester, Hein and combat medic Jason Mike each received a Silver Star for heroism (and Hein later found himself upgraded to a Distinguished Service Cross), and while other American women have received the Silver Star for courage under fire, Hester became the first female Silver Star recipient for showing courage by returning fire.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
|
Tut, tut, good enough to toss; food for powder, food for powder. They’ll fill a pit as well as better. Tush, man, mortal men, mortal men.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
|
I don't think Dudes should be in combat, either.
|
|
TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
|
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
William Tecumseh Sherman
War might be Hell, but combat is a Mother F*#ker.
I salute those Women.
TY
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
|
We're all sick of war.
The point is, is it going away any time soon? And since it's not likely to go away any time soon.....
Nobody "belongs" in combat, unless they're a lot off of center.
Maybe wars would be shorter, if women served in all of them, all the time?
Maybe there wouldn't be so much war if women were in charge, in more places, all the time?
LADY TRIEU / TRIEU THI TRINH, THIRD-CENTURY VIETNAM
Virtually all of Vietnamese history consists of a seemingly infinite struggle against incredibly powerful and overbearing foreign interests determined to control the nation through military might, economic control or cultural dominance. When people think of the countries that have tried (unsuccessfully) to tell Vietnam what to do, they typically think of France (the original European colonial occupiers of the territory), Japan (who attempted to draw Vietnam into their World War II Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere) and the United States (who just wanted to set a bunch of Communists on fire and didn’t really have many plans beyond that stage), but Vietnam’s oldest and most intimidating enemy has always been China. Fortunately for Vietnam, they’ve always had women like Trieu Thi Trinh.
Lady Trieu, as she was known, had one of the most badass sayings in history: “I’d like to ride storms, kill sharks in the open sea, drive out the aggressors, reconquer the country, undo the ties of serfdom and never bend my back to be the concubine of whatever man” Maybe a little bit wordy, but a hell of a lot more impressive than “Girl power!”
Facing the armies of the Eastern Wu Chinese state, Trieu was a half-real/half-legendary figure said to have commanded her troops from the back of an armored elephant (very possible), to have worn a suit of solid-gold armor (possible, but impractical and unlikely), and to have stood over 9 feet tall with breasts 3 feet long (uhh, yeah). Whatever Trieu Thi Trinh’s real accomplishments and attributes were, she served as an iconic figure for generations of Vietnamese women, and to this day many Vietnamese cities feature a Trieu Street.
|
|
aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
|
The 1077th anti-aircraft regiment was a unit in the Soviet Army, made up of young girls, mostly just out of high school. The Germans eventually overran their positions and killed them all.
These girls fought so fiercely, the Germans were shocked when they saw the bodies and discovered it was a group of young girls. Here is the account from the Soviet Archives:
"The anti-aircraft troops first engaged the Panzers on August 23rd on the northern outskirts of the city. An attack from this quarter by the enemy had been unexpected, and so there were no rifle units in position to assist the batteries of the 1077th Anti-Aircraft Regiment in their defense against the strong concentration of German tanks and motorized infantry. Under the command of Colonel W. S. German, for two days the regiment fought alone and repelled the assaults of German submachine-gunners. During the combat, the regiment destroyed or damaged 83 tanks and 15 other vehicles carrying infantry, destroyed or dispersed over three battalions of assault infantry, and shot down 14 aircraft."
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
|
Here's what Huck thought about it a couple years ago. I don't agree with Huck on everything but his reasoning seems sound on this one.
Not sure what ever happened with the law suit.
ACLU vs. Combat Reality?
Nov 29 2012
Mike Huckabee
This commentary is from today's Huckabee Report.
In a fight between liberal ideals and physical reality, which side would you bet your life on? This week in San Francisco, the ACLU announced the filing of a lawsuit, challenging the military’s policy of barring women from some combat positions. It’s on behalf of four female military members who have served heroically. They complain that the exclusions are holding back their careers, and that combat positions should be based on strength and skill, not gender. Okay. But here’s where reality intrudes.
The Pentagon is opening more combat positions up to women. But the Marines have fitness tests for combat that require men to be able to do at least three pull-ups. Because they consider women to have less upper body strength, women didn’t have to do the pull-ups. But starting in 2014, they will. And a study of over 300 female Marines found that only 21 percent could do at least three pull-ups. Already last summer, two female Marines who enrolled in the Marine Corps’ grueling Infantry Officer Course washed out. So far, no more women have volunteered.
So the ACLU is suing for full gender equality in all combat roles. But in reality, the only ways to achieve full equality are either to lower the strength requirements for all Marines or to make unequal exceptions for women. Something tells me none of their legal arguments will matter much to a soldier who gets shot in combat and needs his comrade to carry him to safety. All he’ll know is that no ACLU lawyers are going to be around to help with the heavy lifting.
Where do you stand? Leave me a comment below. I read them.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
|
But starting in 2014, they will. And a study of over 300 female Marines found that only 21 percent could do at least three pull-ups.
By my count, that leaves roughly 21 percent of Marine women ready to move on to the next step.
And that's only one Marine Corps standard. There are many "standards" in combat outfits that the women can't meet. Lots of guys can't meet them either. That's why they were created, to keep weak DUDES out!!
Keep 'em coming ladies!
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
|
^^^
That sentiment (survival's) is one that I can agree with. Respect to the ladies!
I would also question if Huckabee could do three pullups. F*#kin' chickenhawk.
Still hate the "war porn" aspect of this thread, but like that it recognizes some strong women.
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
|
I have a unique perspective on this....i work on females that served in combat and unfortunately came back with injuries that have me working with them. Take it from me, they have ALL the same attributes, skills and mindset as our males that serve. I have a ton of respect for them and wish I could tell a story or two of some of them. No doubt that some of of these women could put a lot of males who critcize them to pure shame. They are soldiers, just the same as their counter parts and should be given the same respect in my opinion.
To put it in perspective....how many would tell Lynne Hill, Mari Gingery, or say Maria Cranor that because they're women, they can't hold their own to male climbers?
Peace
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
|
Amen.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
|
Some of you are confusing averages and outliers.
Here is my contention: on average, women are just not filled with the same blood lust as men are, and therefore are unlikely to be as effective killing machines. And on average, they don't have as good of skills as men at doing the types of things that infantry troops are supposed to do (what exactly that is, I have no idea; the closest I've ever come to any sort of combat is in watching a good war movie).
Lets make this concrete:
Any of you watch American Ninja Warrior? How do women compare on average with men in that competition?
I don't care how hard Lynn Hill can climb (or could in her prime), I'd like to see if she could get up the warped wall!
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Oct 28, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
|
survival,
when I told the story of Sgt Hester here a while back I didn't use her first name or refer to her gender until after describing her actions and receiving the Silver Star, but it doesn't seem to show on a search(?).
edit
and blahblah, I'd like to see YOU do it. I saw Lynn a few months ago and she appears to be in great shape.
Meh
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
|
Thanks, but I won't be taking any news from ISIS.
For some strange reason I trust them even less than I trust our news organizations! Weird.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
|
That ISIS tweet sounds more like a herd of jack-asses braying..
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
|
OK regardless of whether I could make it up the Warped Wall (probably not) and whether women are generally as fit to serve in combat as men (I kind of doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong) . . .
The ISIS guys and their beheadings are getting more than a little old. Pretty said state of affairs when the US gives billions in aid to Israel, Egypt and others, but gives little more than crumbs to the valiant men and women who are fighting for their lives against those scum.
Two more years and at least we'll be rid of the disgraceful wimp who currently infests the White House; not sure the next guy (or gal, just please don't let it be Hil-liar-y) will be any better, but at least we've got a shot.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
|
Pretty said state of affairs when the US gives billions in aid to Israel, Egypt and others, but gives little more than crumbs to the valiant men and women who are fighting for their lives against those scum.
Barry is not going to interfere with Ergodan solving his "Kurdish problem".
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
|
Barry is not going to interfere with Ergodan solving his "Kurdish problem".
Poppy Bush sure didn't interfere with Saddam solving his "Kurdish problem."
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Oct 29, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
|
Same "great game", just a different player.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 12:51am PT
|
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 05:55am PT
|
Same "great game", just a different player.
Exactly, with the same results.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Oct 30, 2014 - 08:01am PT
|
More likely it will be a repeat of the Armenian holocaust. 2/3rds of what would ethnically be Kurdistan is in Turkey and Iran.
Ergodan and Turkey want a resurgence of the Ottoman empire.
The mad Mullahs and Iran, a resurgent Shia / Persian empire.
The Kurds are everyone's way.
The only relative peace they've had, (and then only in Iraq), was when they were under US protection with Northern Watch.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
In 1994, I took a one term high school class on war. It was me with my long ass hair, about 12 football players and one nerdy dude who is probably a hardcore libertarian now. We were asked to write an in-class pro/con essay on women in combat. I was the only person in the class who wrote a "pro" essay. The "con" essays were very emphatic that this was not a role women should ever serve in. I really hope those guys remember that assignment.
|
|
Messages 1 - 61 of total 61 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|