The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Sep 19, 2018 - 07:33am PT
Thanks fructose, for these excellent thought provoking references.

I'm in the fifth week of teaching an online Introduction to Cultural Anthropology course where the topic of the week is religion. I take the anthropological approach of dazzling them with the variety of world religions from the hunter gatherer days to the present but using structural labels instead of denominational ones. These label include animism, reverential, magical, mythological, millenial-messiah, nativism, cargo cults etc.

The discussion of the week involves them saying which three are most attractive and which three are least attractive to them personally and why. Currently, the top three are animism (nature worship), secular scientific, and meditational - experiential with or without a belief in God.

Their least favorites are fundamentalism, reverential (priests and intermediaries), and atheism. Finally, almost everyone of them says they do not believe that belief will ever go away, but religion might.

I think this is telling us something important about the future.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 19, 2018 - 07:46am PT
Jan,

You better add "Sheilaism" into your list. It's a concept added by Bellah, and it's modern.

HFCS,

It might be time for you to study a little bit about postmodern notions, given the quotes that you're publishing.
EdBannister

Mountain climber
13,000 feet
Sep 19, 2018 - 11:34am PT
science: XX or XY

Binary sex determination occurs at fertilization, well before differentiation
where some cells grow and group to become the head or spine, while others become limbs.

But the religion of secularism has a list..


Why not just call them bathrooms?


Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Sep 19, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
Sheilaism seems like a modern day version of syncretism which is as old as religion itself, sometimes through design (Sikhism, Bahaism, Unitarian -Universalists etc.) and sometimes by default (Shinto,Taoism, Buddhism or Greco-Roman-Hebraic Christianity). The only thing new about Sheilaism is that it is individually based, and why not? Of course the religious and academic leaders will resent that but it seems in keeping with the democratic and egalitarian tendencies of the modern age.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 19, 2018 - 12:38pm PT
Greenland sharks are now the longest-living vertebrates known on Earth, scientists say.

Researchers used radiocarbon dating to determine the ages of 28 of the animals, and estimated that one female was about 400 years old.

moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Sep 19, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
Greenland sharks are now the longest-living vertebrates known on Earth, scientists say.

Researchers used radiocarbon dating to determine the ages of 28 of the animals, and estimated that one female was about 400 years old.

EdwardT, this is the oldest living vertebrate:

Credit: moosedrool

Moose
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 19, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
Cool, Jan. Glad you found them worthy.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 19, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
One can self-identify as a technophile and still worry about tech's downside or negatives.. and fear its abuses.

Tech run amuck? China becomes an episode of Black Mirror.

What is YOUR citizen score?

I give you the mobile version...

https://t.co/x3TSlBXFJy


Dandan says it's fine with her.

The Chinese government calls it “social credit” and says it will be fully operational by 2020.

...

Major score! How to convert twitter video to your own video...

https://www.downloadtwittervideo.com

Example: https://twitter.com/dastanebegins/status/1042137523747782656
Great video clip from Iran by the way.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 20, 2018 - 08:49am PT
Finally at long last - Yuval Harari and Sam Harris...

The Edge of Humanity,
A Conversation w Yuval Harari

https://samharris.org/podcasts/138-edge-humanity/

Conversation begins at timestamp, 12:35.

Scholar of change
Scholar of interdisciplinary crossover
Extraordinary writer

re: story, fiction, religion

"You use these terms in slightly idiosyncratic ways..." - Harris

Perfect. But as said here before... when you get the system dynamics of a thing, be it climbing or free will for eg, you can see through the messiness of the language the people use.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Sep 20, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian Catholic priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven.

Lemaître also proposed what became known as the "Big Bang theory" of the origin of the universe, which he called his "hypothesis of the primeval atom" or the "Cosmic Egg".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 22, 2018 - 10:02am PT
A remarkable discovery of a letter by Galileo lost for 250 years. Written by Galileo in 1613, he sets out for the first time his arguments that scientific research should be free from theological doctrine.

Free from theological doctrine. Imagine that.



Discovery of Galileo’s Long-Lost Letter

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/discovery-of-galileos-long-lost-letter-shows-he-edited-his-heretical-ideas-to-fool-the-inquisition/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 1, 2018 - 11:08am PT
Now that we're hacking ourselves - our bodies and biology - with ever more depth, precision and success, maybe it's time to ask, Do we want to keep aging?

After all, aging, in a way, is a choice - decided in the past not by us but by natural selection. Dogs 15 years, humans 80, greenland sharks 400 years.

The great physicist and naturalist Sean Carroll discussed this with Coleen Murphy, biologist and C. elegans expert...

Coleen Murphy on Aging, Biology, and the Future...

https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2018/10/01/episode-16-coleen-murphy-on-aging-biology-and-the-future/

PS.

A long period of abstinence: Greenland sharks do not reach sexual maturity until about 150 years old.

What's it like to be a... 200 year old Greenland Shark? You wonder if it thinks much. You wonder if it ever reflects on its youth.

PPS

International Podcast Day, Sept 30: an international celebration of the power of podcasts.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 3, 2018 - 10:54am PT
"Is there any idea so outlandish that it won't be published in a Critical/PoMo/Identity/"Theory" journal? Helen Plucrose et al. submitted a dozen hoax papers to find out." -Steven Pinker

Here is a full explanation of the fake papers project, why it was done and what lessons are to be learned...

Something has gone wrong in the university — especially in certain fields within the humanities...

https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/

PoMo: postmodernism

...



Bill Maher and Sam Harris...
https://samharris.org/podcasts/139-sacred-profane/

"I'm waiting for the day when you can come to Saudi Arabia and freely speak without getting yourself killed." -Nad
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 3, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
^^^

I like this idea:

"What if we write a paper saying we should train men like we do dogs — to prevent rape culture? Hence came the “Dog Park” paper."
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 4, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
"What if we write a paper saying we should train men like we do dogs — to prevent rape culture? Hence came the “Dog Park” paper."



https://youtu.be/kVk9a5Jcd1k

"Thank you soooooooooooo much for doing this!!! It’s time that someone exposed these absurd, unscientific papers!! Bless you!!! Thank you!!"

Part 1:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQYHsHJx6A

"It doesn't make any pretense to be reasoned, it doesn't make any pretense to be evidence-based."

Sounds familiar.

...

Fake news comes to academia...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fake-news-comes-to-academia-1538520950

“For us, the risk of letting biased research continue to influence education, media, policy and culture is far greater than anything that will happen to us for having done this.” -Lindsay

The Grievance Studies Scandal: Five Academics Respond...
https://quillette.com/2018/10/01/the-grievance-studies-scandal-five-academics-respond/

NOTES (1) An old friend of my father once told my when I was a little boy: "Jimmy, beware of people educated beyond their intellect". The best advice I have ever received. (2) These hoaxes also reveal how inbred many academic disciplines have become. Press the right buttons, mumble the correct code phrases--and you are in the club. (3) [Note] it would be very difficult, or probably impossible, to publish a hoax paper in the hard sciences and engineering. [s: WSJ]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
These trends were interesting...

Credit: High Fructose Corn Spirit

Credit: High Fructose Corn Spirit

Another interesting term of late is "intuitive." As in "intuitive physics," for example. Meaning some intuition re physics/ physical processes (e.g., re rock avalanche, building bridges across streams, jumping over crevasses) though having little if any academic or formal instruction in physics.

Credit: High Fructose Corn Spirit

One can sense how terms get "bent, broken, blended" (David Eagleman) and repurposed over time and usage...

Credit: High Fructose Corn Spirit

Rather surprising is this (rather steady) off and on usage of "intuitive science" over many decades. Not sure why. When I get more time, I'll try to look up a few books old and new to see how it's been used.

...

What an Audacious Hoax Reveals About Academia

"...if we are to be serious about remedying discrimination, racism, and sexism, we can’t ignore the uncomfortable truth these hoaxers have revealed: Some academic emperors—the ones who supposedly have the most to say about these crucial topics—have no clothes."

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/572212/
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
HFCS -- ".. my father once told me when I was a little boy: "Jimmy, beware of people educated beyond their intellect".

Your father was actually referring to YOU, yourself as a perfect example of educated beyond intellect!

Your intellect is so backward masquerading due to illusion as advanced.

You never saw it coming .....
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 5, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
I don't think it needs to be religion VS science. We have a creation. Look at it and think about it.

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:49am PT
Lynne +1

. . . all except for that “think about it” guidance.

Thinking (conceptualization) only partializes creation.

But, yeah. It shouldn’t be an issue of science vs. religion. Both can be somewhat informative.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:56am PT

Thinking (conceptualization) only partializes creation.

Quack, quack...
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