Discussion Topic |
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HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
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Agreed! I hope they bust her and make her clean the pit toilets at various parks.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
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what is she using? looks like just chalk.
oh, and dibs.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
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What if she likes pit toilets..? They better ask her what her favorite things to clean are ...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
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Are we surprised that the "ME" generation of the 80s spawns the "Look At Me" generation of today?
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
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When I clicked on the link, there is one photo of her drawing on a rock at Canyon Lands with what appears to be a crayon.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:46pm PT
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According to the link, she is using acrylic paint. Not cool.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:49pm PT
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"In case you were wondering, no – the images aren’t chalk – they’re acrylic paint."
Nail her.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Oct 21, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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She should clean pit toilets with her hair
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Oct 21, 2014 - 08:03pm PT
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Good thing she is hot, white and blonde . . . anyone else would have been shot dead.
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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Oct 21, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
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Her inner ugly self overshadows any beauty that she could have had. What a selfish person.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Oct 21, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
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Casey Nocket That was some difficult detective work right there.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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According to the web site, her name is Casey Nocket.
Here's a Facebook profile by someone with that name, and it looks like the same person to me.
https://www.facebook.com/casey.nocket
Edit: This is her. She links to a tumblr with her tagging name: http://creepytings.tumblr.com/
==
Studied at Dutchess Community College
Past: Highland High School
Lives in Highland, New York
From Highland, New York
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
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The NPS is already on the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Yosemite/comments/2jvbst/graffiti_artist_with_no_regard_for_her_actions/
==
[–]SteveYuSpecialAgent 25 points 7 hours ago
Hi.
My name is Steve Yu and I'm an investigator in Yosemite National Park.
Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention.
I'm not sure about the best way to go about this as this is my first case I've worked off of Reddit, but if folks can send what they've grabbed to my email, that would be great:
Steve_Yu@NPS.GOV
Thanks in advance, all!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 21, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
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Really sucks, she will pay the price.
The graffiti below was face level on the top of the Grandview trail, a very busy trail in the Grand Canyon. The rock in that area is pristine, it takes a disgustingly narcissistic person who thinks it is okay to do this. I took that picture Feb 16, so it was up for at least two months. I think I tracked down the person who did it (young college student I think), but could not be certain so I let it go, I wonder if the NPS ever followed up on it.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
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When an an individual considers being a brand rather than a citizen...
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
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Things that make you say "Meh".
So clueless, just like this:
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 21, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
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#DefacingParksWin
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:17am PT
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A punch to the hoof for her. Or a punt to the c#&%. Either will work. Everybody feels like they have to leave their mark....entitled narrow minded dipshits.
We have a similar situation here, on the old snowsheds on donner, the spraycan 'artists' have been using the insides as a canvas for years, which is fine, it gives them somewhere to do their thing that doesnt bother everyone, nor force them to look at it, but recently some have been springing up on the outside of the sheds, which is not okay at all.
Hipsters, tolerate an inch of their sh#t, they take a mile.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:16am PT
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She should be crucified for this, and if they get her on ARPA there will be real consequences. Other than that, what the hell, I'd do her.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:07am PT
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Crucified...well, a least spray painted, a heart carved into her arm, and maybe dipped in sh#t.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:42am PT
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Petroglyphs were called graffiti at first, I'm sure.
Still is graffiti
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:52am PT
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The thing is not to make her snooky /jaywow NJ shore famous or every snot nosed brat will see monkey ...monkey see monkey do the LEO's have thought of this scary fact too
She is from; Not the Gunks, just a few miles away though . Highland NY look at where that is
The hudson river valley the gateway to New paltz and the Gunks...
Lots of prisons there but off to Illinois she should be sent It will Not be the TV show Orange Is The New Black, there. I wrote with passion of what might happen to a a sweet young woman in a real life hard prison setting. Now that I have, will any one else edit themselves ? of course not.
.these two tags in blue showed up on small rocks this spring I visit the second one every day
and now to catch the phuc I am going friday nights as well
I think it is a pizza delivery guy all that local law would do is take a car tag number
At Risk What Can a Climber do??
If I were an owner I would close the place. it is Choss but it is walking distance and there is some 20yr old graffiti too [photoid=3832
As I said I visit and consider 'mine' these small rocks but if they get shut down it will make my life more hell
this is so maddening and it is spreading in-part because of the attention it receives.
can someone name the acid that a person can buy ? Muratic?? that takes this stuff off
(EDIT)
Thank you APOGEE
sorry CCT,(et.al.) and thanks for tying to moderate/Educate me , I have Heard that it is a term from the 'TV' show,
Orange Is The New Black.
I do not know what it means.
I hear prison is where bad things happen.
I am not endorsing violence against any one.
Have you ever read any of Norwegian's poetry or Richard Brautigan or Brukawski?
(END EDIT)
the words under the 'Van Halen wings' I also tried to 'edit' with
paint remove and gunkoff and bleach and a wire brush and I duct taped a soaked rag
over the 'tag' left it for a week adding the noxious liquids repeatedly
you can see that I got poor to no results. (EDIT !)?@$?!$(AM PST)10/24/14 It seems that this is a sh00t storm and that blue pigment is hard to remove.
Mojomonkey ickinhand and like your name-sake throwing crap
..... as I see you like my prose . So keep it up. I added this comment after I gave it some time for you to do whatever VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV you think is right.
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Mojomonkey
climber
.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:36am PT
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Lots of prisons there but off to Illinois she should be sent It will Not be the TV show Orange Is The New Black, there she'll be the white cream that sista black boy inmate with a pussy will rape every day and night and the gaurds will do her in between .
Posting as if that is OK or a tolerable expectation of what should happen in prison... wow.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:09am PT
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Its an epic run-on sentence for sure! Reading his posts are like diarrhea directly to the eyes.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:42am PT
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Its just more me-generation bullsh#t. She needs to be smeared with the sh#t of a million dysenteries.....on instagram.
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Rockies Obscure
Trad climber
rockiesobscure.com....Canada
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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Is that Batman symbol on the road north of Yucca Valley on the #247?!
I recall seeing that a number of years ago.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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That naughty girl deserves a good spanking.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:20am PT
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Gnome, you comment about "white cream" is not ok and does not belong here.
"A 30 caliber round to her noggin." is somehow more acceptable to you?
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:24am PT
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At first I wanted to say something mean about this girl...but calling for a bullet to the head and prison rape???? Tag on girl...You are not the one we need to worry about here...
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:25am PT
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Hahahah
Sure CCT! You seem like a great one to give advice with a whol 30 forum posts. Shut up troll.
kev
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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she could always come over to PtMugu and add some fine art!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:32am PT
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No violence.
Just a wire brush, can of thinner, and stern LEO taskmaster under a baking sun. "Every last speck of paint will be gone before you're done, if we have to stay here for a month".
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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Too bad her "art" is such crap.
Came across this a few summers ago in the 'dacks and had a hard time finding it objectionable; it kinda fit right in:
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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"Just a wire brush, can of thinner, and stern LEO taskmaster under a baking sun. "Every last speck of paint will be gone before you're done, if we have to stay here for a month".
And be sure to have the whole process Instagrammed.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:39am PT
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The 1st step is to locate Casey Nocket.
Probably triangulate on her cell phone.
Hey NSA! Track this tagger hottie.
Looks like someone who may have NSFW selfies on her
phone; in case you spooks need motivation to find her.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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That's why I suggested GraniteClimber delete the thread, if those are the kind of responses it attracts and the mods don't respond. Mods? There are no mods, only the banhammer.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
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The rape and torture fantasies came up fast on this thread! And from so many different posters, others piling on the first suggestions.
That's Supertopo being ugly, in a deeper way than graffiti. To make the punishment fit actual crime why not hard work at graffiti removal?
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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All academic at this point - this stuff has exploded all over the Internet the last couple days. Her Tumbler account is locked down with a message of "I dunnnn fuuuucked up"
Wonder how long it took her to figure that out. Not too bright, posting that stuff all over the place. She's gone to ground social media wise, but there is more then enough evidence to support charges. She will get busted, and hopefully they will make an example and give her a hefty fine, jail time, and make her go clean all that crap up.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
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Punishment should fit the crime. Removing graffiti sounds about right.
reddit says she was arrested 2 years ago.
* Jan 10 2012 Drugs: Casey L. Nocket, 19, Highland, was arrested by Lloyd town police Saturday and charged with possession of a controlled substance, a misdemeanor. She was released on an appearance ticket.
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20120110/law-disorder-jan-10-2012
best comment so far:
"I am quite saddened by this. My guess is Ms. Nocket more than likely had some academic training, but it would appear the school tuition might have been better spent on liquor and lottery tickets."
SKI
"What massive arrogance. There's never a hungry bear around when you need one."
klee
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
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As an artist her work is poor.
As a white female, she should be prosecuted as a young black male.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
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Acrylics should wire-brush off pretty easily.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
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Ah yes, some true colors shining through. (And more names to add to my mental, don't care to meet in public list)
Stupid, stupid, stupid, all around.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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I did a tagging rehab project at the base of Tahquitz a few years ago...the tag had been there for a number of years already, and the results of the effort were pretty good. Here's the thread w/ pics, and the method I used, as well as several others experiences:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1253436/Tahquitz-Graffiti
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:29pm PT
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I'm trying to figure out why this irks me , and us so much...
...yes there are white chalk marks on the stones all over Yosemite, yes there is a giant paved trail that takes you up to Vernal Falls that was blasted out of the mountains, yes in 10,000 years none of this will matter...
...but still it doesn't sit right with us. Is is the self centered nature of the act, that she chose to paint on rocks and society agrees that it is wrong ? Is is her lack of self control? Is it the publicizing of her acts on the internet ? the attention seeking aspect of it?
sorry for all the questions , I hear the anger and feel it myself , I just find it difficult to pinpoint why we feel this is wrong...
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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How is this different than climbers leaving behind chalk marks?
Im not saying either are right. Just asking, how is it different?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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I'm trying to figure out why this irks me , and us so much...
...yes there are white chalk marks on the stones all over Yosemite, yes there is a giant paved trail that takes you up to Vernal Falls that was blasted out of the mountains, yes in 10,000 years none of this will matter... As someone who only started climbing very recently, but has spent most of my time for many years in the mountains I can say that I never noticed chalk (or bolts) before I started looking the rocks as a climber. And the trail to vernal falls was a collaborative effort so that many thousands could enjoy something beautiful. Hers is the act of one that benefits only her.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:25pm PT
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Remember when that guy threw a frisbee off Half Dome and made a video of his action? I actually got his telephone number and called him on littering.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
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You haven't been around ST very long, have you, CCT?
Those kinds of horrific remarks are nowhere close to unique to 'young & hot' vandalism. A few deplorable, dysfunctional threads of the (otherwise wonderful) ST Forum fabric.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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EVERYONE STOP! CCT IS OFFENDED!
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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I certainly cant condone free speech through art in national parks without a permit
but
Dont Nocket
till ya try it
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
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Is CCT = LEB?
edit
or is CCT = bubbles?????
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skii
climber
tacoma wa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
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since one of the members posted a snippet of a comment I posted on another site (modernhiker), here's the entire post, in response to "Zank":
October 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Zank, the petition to the White House is probably a good idea to bring attention to this, but I wonder about its efficacy, and whether it will get the number of signatures required for anyone to pay attention to it.
I would suggest sending an email to the National Park Service Director Jon Jarvis at jon_jarvis@nps.gov and expressing your outrage and disappointment his direction.
It would appear this will not be Ms. Nocket’s first experience dealing with law enforcement:
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20120110/law-disorder-jan-10-2012
After having read the articles and comments that have so far been posted here and on other sites, the adjectives which I believe most aptly apply here are:
narcissist
ignorant
entitled
I am quite saddened by this. My guess is Ms. Nocket more than likely had some academic training, but it would appear the tuition might have been better spent on liquor or lottery tickets.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
and here is my email to National Park Service Director Jonathan Jarvis ( jon_jarvis@nps.gov ):
Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:23 PM
Mr. Jonathan Jarvis, Director
National Park Service
Washington, D.C.
re: Casey L. Nocket graffiti/vandalism at National Parks
Sir:
After reading several online articles and readers' comments regarding Casey L. Nocket's graffiti and vandalism at several National Parks, I would like to express my comments and suggestions.
This matter was brought to my attention in an online article posted HERE: http://www.modernhiker.com/2014/10/21/instagram-artist-defaces-national-parks/
There has already been a petition posted at whitehouse.gov HERE: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/press-charges-casey-nocket-finesmax-community-servicejail-timeetc-httpgooglhy4yqj-defacing-np-nm/1y8xJBGm
It would appear this is not Ms. Nocket's first transgression. Story HERE: http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20120110/law-disorder-jan-10-2012
I believe the three adjectives which most aptly apply in this case are: narcissist, ignorant, and entitlement.
I consider myself to have a fairly open mind when it comes to "art", and have a bit of background in the art world myself. While the ancient native American petroglyphs and pictographs were indeed a form of "graffiti" originally, the addition of what are at best mediocre high-school-level cartoons can in no way be considered something which enhances the intrinsic beauty and value of our National Parks.
I urge that Ms. Nocket be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. I have no doubt others will cry out for retribution in the form of incarceration or community service at the least, or removal of Ms. Nocket's fingers at worst.
Having worked with acrylics myself a few times, I know it can be removed with acetone or a pressure washer, but I believe in this particular instance it would be more appropriate and more environmentally friendly to employ pure water and a stiff boar-bristle brush. A video posted online of Ms. Nocket removing her work might well prove to be an effective deterrent and send a clear message to other cretins who might be entertaining thoughts of engaging in similar activities.
Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Ski
(nickname "Ski" was already taken here, so I'm "Skii" here and at WTA.org)
(all times are PDT)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
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EVERYONE STOP! CCT IS OFFENDED!
It's telling that more men here are not, but just taking the torture, rape and murder "jokes" in stride.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
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Chiloe,
I am very offended and troubled by the graffiti.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
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"It's telling that more men here are not, but just taking the torture, rape and murder "jokes" in stride."
....and that this thread appears to be the usual sausage fest, with little/no apparent female participation. Plus ce change....
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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Apogee hits it out of the park, and Chiloe swings and misses!
Chiloe don't you think your comment
The rape and torture fantasies came up fast on this thread! And from so many different posters, others piling on the first suggestions.
Is VERY inaccurate. I don't see it coming fast, often, or from many posters. That would be like calling it a gun lovers (not that that's good or bad) thread because of Ron's comment. It's almost as if you want to direct the thread away from the issue which is the defacing of national treasures that are here for all of us to share.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
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Ooooooh,... inappropriate comments instigated by,... inappropriate behavior.
Isn't that what ST was created for.
There are people here who actually expect otherwise? WTF are these n00bs?
Apparently this lame brained tagger has hit 10 national parks including Zion and Canyonlands (where I went twice in the past 16 days).
Good thing I didn't catch her in flagrante delicto.
(I've often wondered how much of their own spray paint a tagger could inhale.)
At 10:00pm KUTV will run a story about her.
I doubt she's gonna skate, and I am rooting for CONSECUTIVE sentences.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
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CCT go crawl back in your LEB like hole. We could care less for you or your 30 posts.
And CCT your below comment is a bullshit mis-representation of the thread.
The nasty comments are mostly on the second page (e.g. buried amongst comments 21-40). Some people did pile on, at first, but most dialed back once attention was drawn to the situation.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
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There was a lame tagger named Nocket
Who carried some paint in her pocket.
She visited parks
Just to leave there her marks
But now the complaints likely rocket
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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so how is this different than chalk marks left by climbers?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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so how is this different than chalk marks left by climbers? Persistence
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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if that is what you feel you must do... or just think critically and attempt to answer a question
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
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The park service has chimed in:
http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=1649
Vandalism reported in 10 national parks of the West
Incidents illustrated on social media
WASHINGTON: The National Park Service is investigating reports of vandalism in at least 10 national parks in Arizona, California, Colorado, Oregon, and Utah.
While we can’t discuss details of a case under investigation, we take the issue of vandalism seriously. National parks exist to preserve and protect our nation’s natural, cultural and historic heritage for both current and future generations. Vandalism is not only a violation of the law but it also damages and sometimes destroys often irreplaceable treasures that belong to all Americans.
There are forums for artistic expression in national parks because national parks inspire artistic creativity. These images are outside that forum and outside the law.
Parks affected (awaiting confirmation): Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona; Yosemite National Park, California; Death Valley National Park, California; Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks, California; Joshua Tree National Park, California; Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado; Crater Lake National Park, Oregon; Bryce National Park, Utah; Zion National Park, Utah; and Canyonlands National Park, Utah.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:57pm PT
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how is this for irony...
one of the pics posted by the girl is from the cave in JTree with the Disney painted pictographs
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
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The rock is much more beautiful than her pitiful attention whoring. Some people will do anything for their 15minutes. I hope she is prepared to do the time.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Bwahaha.
I wonder if Creepytings knows how to spell Federal Marshal Service.
(hell I wonder if she can spell FBI)
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
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Yes I would be fine with chalkless rules in places where land managers want them.
chalk is aid brah.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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just throwing it out there...some of the most ugly pieces of rock I have seen are covered in chalk. But climbers did it so its all good. As you were gents.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
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The rape and torture fantasies came up fast on this thread! And from so many different posters, others piling on the first suggestions.
From my OP that I made in starting this thread, I think I made it clear that I'm offended by the vandalism. But I am also offended by some of the comments that I have seen here and on other forums (it's not just on the Taco)that indulge in rape and torture fantasies.
Many of us sometimes post things that we later decide are inappropriate and go back and edit--I've done that more times that I can count. I hope of of the people who posted that go back and remove it. That is never appropriate behavior.
Edit: We can argue about how many of these posts there are, but even one is too many.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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Well put, GC.
Hopefully her art will improve in jail.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
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Also, a "Special Agent" with the Park Service is actively investigating. It was brought to their attention because of threads on forums like this one. So when we express out outrage on forums, it sometimes does lead to repercussions.
I hope they follow through and make an example of her.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
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If you are going to do something illegal and spray about it on the internet, facebook whatever you are not the sharpest tool in the shed and deserve the consequences
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
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There is a huge distinction between paint and chalk. Chalk can be washed off.
Imagine how you would feel if on Halloween someone were to use paint to deface your car or your house with a picture of a big jack-o-lantern.
Now imagine that the same thing happens but it is just chalk, and you can wipe it off in a minute with a wet paper towel. You might still have an initial feeling of anger and violation when you first see it, but after you see it can be easily removed, you will - if you are normal - calm down and not call the cops or stress over it.
Paint is usually a lot more difficult and expensive to remove than chalk, but money is only part of why you would feel less angry. When someone uses chalk, it is clear that they are not trying to cause permanent damage and have some respect for you and your property (even if they are yanking your chain a bit.)
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John M
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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good post granite climber..
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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CCT stop being some weird suckup and go elsewhere. CCT = LEB?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
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Chalk = Acrylic paint?
FALSE EQUIVALENCY
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
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Good thing she is hot, white and blonde . . . anyone else would have been shot dead.
A knee-jerk reaction, I realize. But still inappropriate. But then we've all posted crap like this. I posted to a FB page that they should bury the quote woman unquote under a rock she'd defaced. Oops, my bad.
It's really the same sort of thing my sophomore (yep, we were incensed and outraged) class friends said at lunch when just moments before we got the news from Dallas about JFK's murder.
Let the punishment fit the crime. Kalimon, accept it. You are dog-shit! :)
Maybe she's channeling this guy--a real artist with full permission and talent and patriotism. Who just happened to be responsible for creating a National Monument.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:55pm PT
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CCT is bewildered, brow furroughed, hands wringing, a tear from a baby's eye. What ever will we do now that this poor thread has been vandalized? And what will become of Granite Climber?! Is his will to survive strong enough?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Oct 22, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
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Hola Mouse . . . I was not insinuating that the woman should be shot. It was a comment based on the rampant use of deadly force against young black men in this country.
Peace out.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Oct 22, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
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A similar, much more isolated instance occured in Glen Canyon National Recreation Area sometime back. Here are some details:
http://www.grandcanyontrust.org/news/2011/01/rock-art-defacement-at-glen-canyon-nra-results-in-stiff-fine-for-criminal/
Rock art defacement at Glen Canyon NRA results in stiff fine for criminal (from the George Wright Society website)
An NPS concession employee came upon recent damage to a rock art panel below Glen Canyon Dam last June and reported it to a park interpretive ranger. The damage consisted of the name “TRENT” scratched into the panel. The interpretive ranger had visited and photographed the rock art, known as the Descending Sheep panel, less than an hour prior to the report, and had also observed a guided fishing trip on the beach near the panel.
This information was passed on to a law enforcement ranger working at Lee’s Ferry, who found the fishing guide at the boat ramp and asked if he had anyone on his trip by the name of “Trent.” After the guide pointed out his passengers, the ranger asked for Trent. Trenton Gainey of North Carolina responded and admitted to scratching his name into the rock. Gainey told the ranger he did it because he thought it would be “cool.”
On December 9th, Gainey pled guilty to one felony violation of the Archaeological Resource Protection Act in federal magistrate’s court and agreed to pay $10,000 in restitution to repair the damage he caused to the panel. He is scheduled for sentencing in the district court in Phoenix on March 14th. The investigation was conducted by NPS rangers, Glen Canyon cultural resources staff, and Investigative Service Branch investigators.
grandcanyontrust.org
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 22, 2014 - 06:26pm PT
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Wonder if she can draw unemployment...?
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
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good story albatross. i look forward to hearing something similar for this loser.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Oct 22, 2014 - 06:40pm PT
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Thread drift-
To hold the notion that petroglyphs are, or were originally conceived as graffiti is to be both uneducated and unobservant.
Plenty of our contemporaries have tried to carve their names or initials into the face of the paleolithic, with jackknives or what have you. And the results look pretty feeble.
Imagine the creation of large and coherent panels of highly stylized iconography, working with tools no harder than the scant flint local resource – in such a manner as to endure, intact, for a minimum of 800 years.
One of these days I've a thread, with some fairly compelling photos, I'd really love to post for artists, the scientists, the desert climbers and aficionados among us here.
On a somewhat different note, chalk is not allowed by the land managers of Canyonlands NP (nor Arches, if memory serves). Nor are drilled or fixed anchors of any kind. There shall still remain some pretty sporty stuff for future generations.
“EZ Off” works to remove oil-based grafitto with minimal impact to granite and similar rock types. Acrylic polymers, I dunno.
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covelocos
Trad climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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just throwing it out there...some of the most ugly pieces of rock I have seen are covered in chalk. But climbers did it so its all good. As you were gents.
Art IS in the eye of the beholder.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
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There is a product called Graff-Off that works well on spray paint, Most can be removed with just the product and a pump sprayer.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
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I just heard on NPR of a multi-agency investigation that is on-going regarding vandalism in the places posted here. Must be the same "artist", she's about to be forced fed a sh*t sandwich, we can only hope.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
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I bet that poor girl is now freaking out big time realizing what terrible mistake shes made by all the hate and violence comments against her.
She's kind-of a dumb unconscious blond to her actions.
But after this she'll probably wake up and have a much better understanding .......
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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A bit of irony?
Yabo, whatcha think?
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
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apple, meet orange.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
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I do think that comparing ancient petroglyphs/pictographs to graffiti shows that the poster is uneducated, racist, or just stupid.
Seek out and punish this woman for defacing, and then bragging about defacing, pristine landscapes with her personal signature graffiti.
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
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I bet that poor girl is now freaking out big time realizing what terrible mistake shes made by all the hate and violence comments against her.
She's kind-of a dumb unconscious blond to her actions. When I checked her tumblr this afternoon it said something like, "I dun fukked up big time".
I don't condone her actions at all, but she was trying to create art and a legacy in the world as she understood it and fed in some part by the myth of the west.
The most cogent comment so far was this:
I live in a rap bolted glass house but I still hope the NPS busts her ass. Just my opinion but I've seen a lot of squeeze jobs, grid jobs, rap jobs in the middle of nowhere, and stupid rap jobs perpetuated by olding men seeking a legacy, drinking their own urine, and living in teepees; these have upset me far more than the misguided art of a young person trying to understand a screwed over world.
Leave no trace (such as you can) is still the best way or at least by my code.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
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One of my rap bolted routes had a drilled angle only 4 or 5m up the wall. When it was shown to a ranger he couldn't see the (camo painted) angle until someone with a cheater stick actually touched it for him.
No glass house here.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:32am PT
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these have upset me far more than the misguided art of a young person trying to understand a screwed over world.
krahmes, she is in fact screwing over the world herself. Regarding misguided bolt placements just imagine how upset you'd be if everyone of them was a painted piece of art.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:43am PT
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Fritz spot on.
Bergbryce 'gets it.'
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:48am PT
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Toker...I find the camo angle offensky..! : )
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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Anything bad that happens to her is OK.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Oct 23, 2014 - 09:21am PT
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Just...f#$%ing...unbelievably...clueless
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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tioga do you live in a house, own a car? mankind is destructive, but maybe we can try to save some areas from our influence, and suggessting that it is ok for some bimbo to deface public lands, we are trying to preserve is lame
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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Hey, Dingleberry,
I studied environmental conservation under Horace Quick at CU, Boulder.
I wrote a paper that predicted that cam nuts could mitigate crack damage done by pitons more than 3 years before Friends even came on the market! (thanks to working with the TRUE inventor of the cam nut, Greg Lowe)
I was the first person to climb a desert wall without carrying a hammer (and solo). Who besides Conrad (on the same route) has done as much in the 33 and a half years since?
They all carry hammers to "supplement" their chock craft.
We are not going to fence off our public domain. We are going to use it. And by using it we have an impact. Wise people use the land with an eye towards how their use will affect those who follow.
I still get complaints that people who do my routes can't even see the drilled angle right in front of them. Thats how I like it.
Screw you about missing the point. You're the one missing it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:45am PT
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Equating graffiti or this woman's 'art' (or justifying it) with chalk, petroglyphs, wholesale development of land, bolts, etc. is ridiculous.
It's called false equivalency, and it's done by people who either don't have a directly relating retort, or simply for the purposes of arguing & distraction, or by unintelligent people who don't understand the world.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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'graffiti'
tioga, you are an angry person.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:15am PT
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Are you always a lumper? Ever try being a splitter?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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Equating graffiti or this woman's 'art' (or justifying it) with chalk, petroglyphs, wholesale development of land, bolts, etc. is ridiculous.
True, unless the chalk and bolts are installed in locations where they are illegal. Close to an equivalent, in that case.
The "artist" should be punished as the NPS sees fit. No more, no less. She's young, ignorant but will learn and remember this the rest of her life. I hope the publicity sends enough of a message to enough people that some acts of future vandalism by others are prevented.
DMT's glass house comment is warranted.
There's been similar (equivalent?) behavior within the climbing world with folks (some of whom are personal friends, all of whom are good, cool, people) who really should be a bit smarter than the woman who inspired this thread:
1. Bolts. Climbers spraying online about their proud project/FA (or earning money from selling photos of said climb), which has bolt anchors, located in a national park where bolts are banned. I mean, doh! Here's one example (not the only one I've heard of):
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/capital-reef-climbers-draw-fines-after-their-photo-is-used-in-the-patagonia-catalog/109500116
2. Plaques. OK in Indian Creek. Please think long and hard before carving them anywhere else. Never, ever, ever, carve a plaque in a national park. And if anyone finds one in a national park, please destroy/remove/hide it. Interesting debate here:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/106178621
3. And of course there's that Midnight Lightning drawing on a boulder in Camp 4 (thanks for the reminder, mouse!). Old enough now that it is pretty much grandfathered in as a historic artifact, a reminder of Bachar's genius. But still....
A heads-up to sponsored climbers/climbing bloggers: The NPS of 2014 is not the laid-back, friendly, forgiving NPS of Piton Ron's (and my!) heyday. These days the regulations are far stricter and the rangers, if given reason to do so, will painstakingly search social media. And after-the-fact blowback can be really harsh--ask Dean Potter about this.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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“but the society she lives in disfigured and poisoned such immense areas of land... Everyone who's living in a dwelling is disfiguring some land”
Actually, Tioga, there are planning and design professionals who have been working on that very issue for some time now.
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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tioga, burn your house, kill your computer move into the wilderness, escape society. sorry about the other billons of folks who will continue to f*#k up the planet. don't sweat the small sh#t, the cig butts, plastic in the ocean , graffii in national parks, let's f*#king nuke civilization, mankind is going down anyway, right? f*#k it.... bring it!
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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Is that the best riposte you can come up with after accusing me of living in a glass house?
Pretty weak (or are you strong enough to reconsider your comment?)
I fall back on decades of experience to temper my judgement every time I reach for a hammer, and my work is for enjoying lives, even saving them.
I'm all for art, but tagging ten parks and then bragging about it on Twitface calls for a strong response.
edit; but I got a good chuckle out of Crunch's description of the friendly rangers
He doesn't know how a british accent works like litiguous armor to buffer the encounter.
Yeah, BITD I got hauled up a side road by rangers and worked over, and plenty more.
The more things change the more this stays the same; tools will be tools.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 23, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
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Okay
yo
If you think that I am so rude then take it down too.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
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The NPS has issued a press release.
http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=1649
National Park Service Press Release
For Immediate Release:
October 22, 2014
Contact(s): Jeffrey G. Olson, Jeffrey_olson@nps.gov, 202-208-6843
Vandalism reported in 10 national parks of the West
Incidents illustrated on social media
WASHINGTON: The National Park Service is investigating reports of vandalism in at least 10 national parks in Arizona, California, Colorado, Oregon, and Utah.
While we can’t discuss details of a case under investigation, we take the issue of vandalism seriously. National parks exist to preserve and protect our nation’s natural, cultural and historic heritage for both current and future generations. Vandalism is a violation of the law and it also damages and sometimes destroys often irreplaceable treasures that belong to all Americans.
There are forums for artistic expression in national parks because national parks inspire artistic creativity. These images are outside that forum and outside the law.
Background: Vandalism, as described in the Code of Federal Regulations, 36 CFR 2.31(a)(3): Destroying, injuring, defacing, or damaging property or real property.
Parks affected: Yosemite National Park, California; Death Valley National Park, California; Crater Lake National Park, Oregon; Zion National Park and Canyonlands National Park, both in Utah. We are awaiting confirmation in Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona; Sequoia Kings Canyon National Park and Joshua Tree National Park, both in California; Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado; Bryce National Park, Utah.
http://www.nps.gov
About the National Park Service. More than 20,000 National Park Service employees care for America's 401 national parks and work with communities across the nation to help preserve local history and create close-to-home recreational opportunities. Visit us at www.nps.gov, on Facebook www.facebook.com/nationalparkservice, Twitter www.twitter.com/natlparkservice, and YouTube www.youtube.com/nationalparkservice.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
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When they catch her, rather than throwing her in prison and costing us more money, have her decontaimnate each location. By decontamination I mean all the fluids used to remove the art get packed in and packed out.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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Are you guys positing that hot girls DON'T get a pass then?
#confusing
#rulechange
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
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Seems like there is one basic principle that helps guide behavior in any situation when there is a question or gray area:
Would the world be a better or worse place if everyone did what I am contemplating doing?
Not enough people seem to care to ask that question of themselves.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
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Can't wait for news vans to start camping out in front of her home
trying for an interview or to film the authorities perp walking her.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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That didn't happen for those scout leaders that trundeled Gobblin Valley.
Really surprised she didn't learn from that. Incredibly stupid.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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Okay, Mojomonkey
You all do not have to read my posts.
I do not endorse violence against any one or thing
I do not like one of your Names either.
If you think that I am so rude then take it down too.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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Dingletoast,
if you read what I wrote before I said no glass house here then you would have got the point I was making.
The only way to truly preserve our parks would be to fence everybody out.
Ain't gonna happen. People will use the parks and they will have an impact. I try hard to minimize visual impact while promoting safety and enjoyment. Responsible use with an eye to the future IS the point.
What's the deal man? We were friends but you posted a regretful link and I shot you one "screw you, thanks a lot", and you've been sniping at me for years. Hoped you'd be bigger than that.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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i found some shithead's tagging gear at the local crag, carefully stashed by a popular boulder. It was carefully hidden, in a nice under armor bag. Spray paint cans, chalk, the whole works. I smashed that sh#t in the bag and put it right back where I found it. Next time, it's your hands or your head. F*#k 'em.
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DickSilly
climber
cutlass supreme
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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She looks hot. I'd do her in a second.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 23, 2014 - 06:45pm PT
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We all live in glass houses.
Part of the human condition, perhaps. On the mountain biker forums, they are pissed at her. Although they brag and post videos of riding illegally on the PCT. The PCTers are pissed at the mountain bikers for violating the regulations, but the PCTers leave behind illegal fire rings in their wake.
We often condemn in others what we condone in ourselves.
So it goes.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
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Not buying it you two.
I recently went out for sushi with old friends in Boulder. I wanted to eat only sustainable types, and even brought the pamphlet.
Their cop out was that, because they did not have children they were far less of an impact to the planet and they would eat what they wanted.
I still love them till death, but don't buy into the rationale.
We are conscious beings. We are aware of consequences. If we are ethical then it weighs in the balance.
We are obliged to do what we can.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
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^^^ ^^Probably never been on Monsanto's Christmas card list.
Veggies just don't taste right without that wiff
of Glyphosate(N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine).
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 23, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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A Pittsburgh man who scrawled graffiti along the upper Yosemite Falls trail was prosecuted in federal court and earlier this year was fined $5,791, placed on probation and ordered by the judge to post on his Facebook page that he had received the maximum penalty.
Kari Cobb, a Yosemite spokeswoman, said defacing park property is not common, but that visitors have carved their names into trees and into moss growing on rocks.
“Yosemite is lucky — we have an amazing restoration crew,” Cobb said. “They are going to figure out ways to get rid of that graffiti. It may take a while, but I have no doubt they will do it.” http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-sci-sn-park-vandalism-20141023-story.html
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 24, 2014 - 07:05am PT
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^^^Michael's post is to a White House petition requesting she be sought and prosecuted. If you are outraged by these multiple acts go there and sign the petition.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Flank of the Big Horns
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Oct 24, 2014 - 07:51am PT
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She is showing zero remorse or understanding of her actions on her "blog".
IT’S ART NOT VANDALISM
I AM AN ARTIST
Other comparisons to Banksy, etc. Her smugness will hopefully catch up to her soon.
http://creepytings.tumblr.com/
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Oct 24, 2014 - 08:14am PT
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Part of the human condition, perhaps. On the mountain biker forums, they are pissed at her. Although they brag and post videos of riding illegally on the PCT. The PCTers are pissed at the mountain bikers for violating the regulations, but the PCTers leave behind illegal fire rings in their wake.
We often condemn in others what we condone in ourselves.
Yes, interesting the level of hatred from all sides. I wonder if it's because we more conventional users of the parks, bikers, climbers, etc have impacts but we all try to minimize them by standards set by the recreational community we're part of.
We're aware that members of the recreational community we belong to occasionally go too far or do things that are not strictly legal, but such behavior is self-limiting as the recreational community we belong to will apply pressure, informally protest, educate and create better compliance. (in climbing, chipping holds is treated this way).
Members of the climbing community operate within the spirit of the law, if not always within the letter of NPS regulations. But we try to. And it's not always very easy navigating the sometimes tortuous NPS regulations. I've run afoul, once or twice, over the years.
In that sense, both Ron and DMT are correct. We individually strive to minimize or reduce our impacts. But some people are more aware and experienced than others; we can see how (usually other) members of the community sometimes fall short of best-practice standards. We wince, bitch to our friends, move on.
Whereas the perpetrator of this artwork/vandalism is operating in reverse: deliberately maximizing her impacts.
She chooses to leave in-your-face impacts, everywhere she visits. Her little painting will clean up OK, but the act of creating them is totally outside any possible community standards for behavior in a park or any kind of scenic, wild place.
The condemnation comes from the attitude of deliberately creating maximum impact. Sad she (or anyone) could feel this is OK.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 24, 2014 - 08:37am PT
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Apparently all the outreach designed to expose inner-city youth to the Parks is working.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 24, 2014 - 09:16am PT
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She's no Banksy.
The I AM AN ARTIST remark is a cop-out. A true artist doesn't deface common ground.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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Exhibit A
Exhibit B
They look the same to me. The only difference is the medium used.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 09:41am PT
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cause climbers did it right jebus??
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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crunch, good post, well thought out. Sure you belong here?
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John M
climber
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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They look the same to me. The only difference is the medium used.
not exactly. The difference is the amount of clean up effort. One is a matter of a few minutes. The other takes quite a bit of time and effort and may leave permanent damage.
Thats not excusing either but there is a difference.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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^^^ Good point John. It is a lot more effort to remove the paint. I guess I wasn't clear about my point, which was in reference to the first pic being "art". Well it is art. But neither it nor the "art" in the second pic belong where they are.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:57am PT
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skcreidc there is a big difference.
1. she's pretty hot
2. Bud Light sucks
now if it turns out she drinks Bud Light then I say throw the book at her.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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Apparently, she is the only hot blond left in America. lol!!
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:06am PT
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Guess I dont know who left it jebus. Looks low angle enough for accessible redneck scrambling I suppose.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:25am PT
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False equivalencies are for the weak-minded.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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"pouty faced false equivalencies."
Get off your high horse dude. These are not false equivalencies. They are legit comparisons. To non climbers (and even some climbers), we leave an ugly impact. Just like this chick left an ugly impact. That is not up for debate.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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your critical thinking skills and ability to put yourself in others shoes need improvement.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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CA.Tim, if you really believe the use of chalk is directly equivalent to that woman's 'art', you must live a very difficult life.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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Its pretty easy actually. I just have the ability to see things from different perspectives unlike a few of you.
Examine what you do to the rock.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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Bwahahahaahahahahaaaa!
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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thoughtful response apogee!
enjoy your glasshouse!
EDIT
point of the linked thread was to show you that other climbers think chalk marks are fugly jebus.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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Do you wear a helmet when you climb?
How about when you make coffee in the morning?
Anyway...virtually all of you making hypocrisy arguments around this issue, comparing it to climber use of chalk, know damn well they aren't the same thing. You just think you're being 'innovative' & controversial by raising the comparison.
It doesn't work, though...it just makes you look silly.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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only wear my helmet on the way to the short bus stop
again thank you proving that you are incapable of seeing things from others perspectives. Why dont you head over to a political thread and spout your absolutes over there
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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CA.Tim, I'm gonna save my energy for a topic that is worthy of my limited brain capacity, or something that I really want to waste my time on. (Polititard threads are actually a very good place for that.)
This false-equivalency stuff is just plain ridiculous, though.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Oct 24, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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apogee
CA.Tim, if you really believe the use of chalk is directly equivalent to that woman's 'art', you must live a very difficult life.
It's not necessarily equivalent but there is a correlation, as a climber we are not exactly seen as innocent by other user groups.
Hueco Tanks is all but shut down, the original ban on bolting in the Flatiron's was due to one bolt right off a popular trail, the Garden of the Gods bans the use of regular chalk because of the residue left on the red sandstone.
Chalk does not wash off. Even after coordinated clean up days at Horsetooth, Flagstaff, Horse Pens the chalk becomes permanent.
I've heard plenty of complaints from friends that do not climb why we get away with using chalk or why are we allowed to leave permadraws and bolts in the rock. I usually just shrug and say that some climbers don't follow those practices but I know that is BS and we are only kidding ourselves that we have little impact on our natural surroundings.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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"It's not necessarily equivalent but there is a correlation"
Yeah, just like one can find seven degrees of separation between anything. 'Correlations' like that are merely interesting, quickly become dull, and don't advance the issue at hand.
Of course, they gain new half-lifes in Forums like ours. Wheeeeeee!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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dafuq this thread went south fast. In any event, that girl is hosed. This story is all over the national papers, the AP, Reuters, etc. And they will get her on ARPA. I suspect it will be a felony charge.
Oh and "C.A Timothy" or whatever, I don't have a dog in this hunt but damn son you do sound like an idiot. Just sayin', kid.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Through a cloud of pain killers from a shoulder procedure, I am going to rev up my addled brain to the redline and say that we use chalk in to enjoy the land. Like any other user group, climbers leave their mark, but the impact is minor. The "painter's" intent was to leave an impact, so somehow it is different.
Damn, when I read back over that it sounds stupid. There is a good point in there somewhere, but I am just too messed up right no to dig it out. Maybe someone else can build on this...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
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Maybe it's better to just move on...
Or at least re-focus on the matter at hand.
Selfish art vandalism in National Parks by a hot young blonde.
Focus, people!
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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bvb
In any event, that girl is hosed
Wet t-shirts, hotpants, and national attention oh my.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
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bvb or whatever...you may not like my argument or my logic, but that does not mean there is no correlation or comparison to be made. I would call the man who sees only one side of an issue the idiot. Not the one who raises a question about the actions of a user group that he belongs to.
I am not bothered by the fact that a bunch oh hypocrites cannot see the point. Most people reading this can see the point, and recognize that it does have merit.
Im sorry that like jebus and apogee, you are incapable of seeing this issue w/o you climber goggles on. Or do you old dudes use belygles now to save your neck?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
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She's been my fappin' fantasy vandal for days now. Oh, the tangy musk scent of sweat, acrylic, and taint. Rooaaarrrrrrr.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 24, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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I've been googling "naked vandal girl painter" It's yielded interesting results, but I haven't found this girl yet...
I googled that too, and a few other variations. The resulting images were quite "bushy."
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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Who can name the location of the following graffitti? Lower Yosemite Falls, behind Isoceles Revisited / I Saw A Sleaze Re-visit Ed?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
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"Management and law enforcement have some discretion in how and when they enforce such laws. "
You can bet that 'discretion' is usually dependent on having direct evidence of the offense, a reasonable means by which to obtain it, or as in this case, the admission of the offender.
Balanced against the significance of the offense, and the desire to make a public example.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 24, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
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It seems most of the reaction is focused on the crime and just how bad it is relative to other acts which produces endless debates on where you draw the line. I suppose it's only natural given that hypocrisy is a part of the human condition.
But recognizing the vast majority of folks out there would agree that she is/was over that line. The real question is why the hell would she do such a thing and be OK with it? She certainly had plenty of time to think about what she was doing over many days of travel.(Please no artist expression excuses here)
I suppose her random acts of stupidity could be far more frequent then mine. That said there are certainly lines I've never ever considered crossing, something that is hard wired or just in my DNA. An act I can't even imagine doing, very curious behavior and so first world.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 24, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 24, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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Make her clean up her mess and if it doesn't pass inspection , a year in jail..
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Bad Climber
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 06:42am PT
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Thanks, Tinker.
Signed.
Time for this self-professed "bad person" so suffer some consequences.
Beeeeeeee--OTCH!
BAd
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 25, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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This thread
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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Tioga, i am now convinced I need to pack my bags and move to your native land, Assholistan, where the streets are paved with gold and your babies shitt little diamonds.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:23am PT
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If she had painted that stuff a thousand years ago, we'd be creating a national park to protect it.
hahaha probably
And then a 50,000 posts forum thread arguing what it means.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:39am PT
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If she had painted that 1,000 years ago, she would be one of only a small handful of thriving humans who found a scant few precious moments away from the toil of survival to make her mark in unexplored territory.
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:41am PT
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tioga says;
Get your f*** oil refineries and chemical factories off the face of Earth first, than speak about "graffitti"
I think those oil/chemical factories are yours too, hypocrite. Do you ever use chemical/petroleum based products? Of course you do (you may be too stupid to realize it).
Better living through chemistry (technology), brah!
EDIT: Equating graffiti with the productive qualities of any factory is just plain stupid. One is productive, the other is just...graffitti.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:52am PT
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Do you ever use chemical/petroleum based products? Course not he's posting from a solar powered laptop made entirely of bamboo and guano.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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Anyone know what happened to Lance Lynch? I heard he finally came out of the closet as a power bottom, is in a fulfilling polyamorous relationship with three young men and living in the Castro district of SF. It would be interesting to get more details, but no pictures please.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:56am PT
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tioga-lynch is cute when he is angry. his boyfriends like it when he is loud.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:03am PT
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Tioga and friends-
;^)
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:15am PT
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Chris Cunningham
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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So if we witch-burned her live on a pay-per-view, we would look like the barbarians?
On the other hand, with proper up-front promotion for our event, we could really make a bundle; use the money to help restore the parks.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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I wanna see these righteout wusses get in that gal's face...they'd never do that.
Are you kidding? 50 year old grumps LOVE mansplaining to young hot women. It might even be the official passtime of the republican party.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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Losing the cold war is a bitter pill to swallow. But I have faith in the good people of Assholistan to rebound.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
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Tioga's moral code:
"[Choose person] should be able to do [fill in crime of choice] because [choose a scapegoat] did [choose horrible historical atrocity],
Let's see how this works:
"Jack should be able to stone Tioga because the Romans nailed Jesus to a cross."
"Harry should be able to burn down Tigoa's house because the American Army firebombed Tokyo."
"You should be able to decorate Tioga's car with paint because Creepytings decorated Yosemite with paint."
That's not a moral code that works in a civilized society.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 25, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
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Tioga's moral code:
"[Choose person] should be able to do [fill in crime of choice] because [choose a scapegoat] did [choose horrible historical atrocity],
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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Ho It's On Britches,,,,,,,,,
whenever, whatever hand to face
tell it to the hand in your face
Find the balance, breath,...
289 that is a killer amount of chiming in how's about you all help out
Go to TODD SKINNER Thread by Hurricane Hannah and say some thing for Todds daughter
please that the total community here should
the vandal can wait
Try to bring it!
Be nice!Bold Text
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
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Some of the recent participants should not go to the Todd Skinner thread. They should vent their poison here.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
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Ho man it's. on now britches
or could stop,. ,. ., ,.., ,,.,.
oops did right there stopped
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
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Just saying find some positive input and make positive impact this is not that .This is a
as to as it is a free range male chick en me barn yard rooster fight
STOP............"mmK
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
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Why Are ISIS Always Denying Religion and the Song You Climbed Today?
1.2 billion replies
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
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What... Where AM I ?
is this the put Words from The thread front page to make a funny?
the suggestion i zzz ,zzz noted GDavis formidable task?
awol not wall flower on that can of worms
the fool on the hill no edit tool to get in
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
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rippnot sfshwepy jasdot shump got!!
it is okay they are speaking Chinese!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
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actually not
an example of individuality
or
creativity
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 25, 2014 - 11:40pm PT
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stolen whole cloth so to speak
From
All Hail Lennon And Marx
The Firesign theatre
I win
# post
301
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 28, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
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Is this her work?
I shot this this morning 10/28/14 @ the schoolroom, Wall Street climbing area, Potash road outside of Moab.
Or is it the work of an imitator, an homage, of sorts?
Which possibility is more disturbing?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Oct 28, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
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... personal threats, vulgarities and posting of personal information should stop. So, this punishment would be frowned upon?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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I had forgotten about this, but last summer there was color grafiti, similar to her style, at the torpedo tube end of the nautilus, in vedauwoo.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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Hey Jaybro, that's a disturbing image of the "oh-so-pretty" white design. Sorry to see this.
Is that done in chalk?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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Having such overwhelming national negative social media attention towards herself it seems as a severe punishment in of itself.
She's already walking around with a bright loud scarlet letter on herself wherever she's recognized in public.
I don't blame her for freaking out especially from psychos wanting a death sentence or other bodily harm.
So much hate towards this woman can really completely destroy her self esteem .......
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 29, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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Kids today need to learn there are consequences to their actions.
One of the downsides to social media is that lynch mobs can form quickly. But in her case, it's a live by the sword kind of a deal.
Hopefully, she'll be able to take away the lesson from this and continue with her life, but the stupidity and selfishness of this is pretty horsesh*t.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 29, 2014 - 10:19am PT
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Nocket off. You're killing me.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 29, 2014 - 11:34am PT
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No Crunch, sadly, it's not chalk! I spit and rubbed and it didn't budge, was there eight hours later and so was it :(
If it's a copycat does that make it a "nock (et ) off?"
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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Sheep's pass group campsite boulder....
City folk and their "art"......
A lot of this "tagging" is just out of ignorance. This young lady and her publicity/notoriety has educated the masses.......Did she know she was doing something "wrong" or "bad".....yes.
Did she know she could face a HUGE fine and LONG jail sentence;...I would say no;...or she wouldn't have put it all over the internet.
There will be some sort of punishment for her vain vandalism...but I personally hope it is not severe. We have all, once again, learned a very valuable lesson from this. She needs to go clean up her messes, get a reasonable fine (not a crippling or bankrupt fine)...and spend a few nights in the slammer....do some community service or something to educate others like her about this.....and then move on with her life.........
It's wrong, ugly and messy........
I wish no ill will upon her;..but she will have to pay the piper with this one......
I feel bad for her, her parents, our national treasures, and her poor judgement.......
She was not acting out of malace or evil thoughts or dastardly criminal intent......just silly hipster city-folk nonsense that sent a BIG shockwave throughout the country......it's a shame..
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 29, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
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Anybody seen the 'art' crap on the boulders near at the Amphitheater entrance in Indian Cove?
If I could catch JUST ONE of these people in the act....
What a TR that would make...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
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There will be some sort of punishment for her vain vandalism...but I personally hope it is not severe. We have all, once again, learned a very valuable lesson from this.
I hope that it is severe.
If it's not the "valuable lesson" will be that even if you go on a tagging "spree" hitting multiple parks across the party, you knew what you were doing was wrong (as shown by her blog posting "I know. I'm a bad person.") and are are caught red-handed, all you get is a slap on the wrist.
Make an example out of her.
If she can just say "sorry" and pay a small fine, it will not deter others. It will just show that:
1. You will almost never get caught for doing what she did unless you are stupid enough to post pictures of you doing on the Internet using your real name.
2. Even if you are stupid enough to get caught, not much will happen.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 29, 2014 - 03:22pm PT
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BITD we caught some folks starting to tag some boulders at Cap Rock in JT. My stepdad (John Wolfe) is a pretty calm, rationale person most of the time, but he was having none of that. We were above them and he jumped off a boulder from pretty high up and landed right into the middle of them. He grabbed the spray cans right out their hands and scared the living sh*t out of all 4 of them. I had never seen him that fired up. It was awesome. He herded them back to their car and they jumped in and lit out before they even had chance a think about what was happening to them.
After that he called the Rangers and gave them the spray cans and license plate number.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 29, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
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That's a great story StahlBro!
I've done that sort of stuff in the preserve near my house to chase out motorcycles and even one d-bag who drove his Suburban up a hiking trail because he said his son had sprained his ankle!!!
Unfortunately, the notoriety of this act might just raise this sort of thing to a "hero-bandit" type of thing where getting away with it is the thrill and we'll see it going on all over the place (like the stuff going on up in Rattlesnake Canyon a while back). The really sad deal is that the porous nature of all types of rocks make it virtually impossible to erase paint or to return the rock to it's original state, so once the damage is done, it will always serve to turn sections of parks and other natural areas into some sort of Honey Boo-Boo shrine.
Aren't we about due to cycle around to where it's hip to care about nature again?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
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The Rangers at JTNP were aware of this vandalism when I mentioned it to them..................it was also spray painted on the concrete picnic tables as well...........
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=1651
National Park Service Press Release
For Immediate Release:
October 29, 2014
Contact(s): Jeffrey Olson, jeffrey_olson@nps.gov 202-208-6843
Suspect Named in Vandalism Case at Eight Western National Parks
Public asked to be patient as investigation continues
WASHINGTON – A 21-year-old New York State woman, Casey Nocket, has been identified as the primary suspect in recent vandalism cases that affect eight national parks in the western United States.
National Park Service investigators have confirmed that images were painted on rocks and boulders in Yosemite National Park, Death Valley National Park, and Joshua Tree National Park, all in California; Rocky Mountain National Park and Colorado National Monument, both in Colorado; Crater Lake National Park, in Oregon; Zion National Park and Canyonlands National Park, both in Utah.
Investigators continue to collect evidence of the crimes, conduct interviews, and are consulting with the U.S. Attorney's Office about potential charges. We ask the public to exercise patience and allow due process to take its course as the investigation moves forward.
The image in Rocky Mountain National Park was reported to the park and removed in late September before similar images were found in the other national parks.
Ice and snow now cover the image at Crater Lake National Park, and it may not be accessible for assessment and clean up until next summer.
An image in Yosemite National Park was removed by an unknown person or persons.
If people visiting these parks come upon these images, they should contact the nearest park ranger with information about the image location. Visitors should not attempt to remove the images.
The National Park Service was contacted on October 20 about this vandalism case. The investigation began immediately.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 14, 2016 - 12:03am PT
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and a slap on the wrist it is
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