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This thread has been locked |
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2014 - 09:17am PT
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Dr. F was banned? So this thread and all its posts were nuked? Is this true?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 09:20am PT
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It was a journal of sorts for me, I'm really bummed if true.
Seems to me, nuking an OP is one thing, posters' contributions can still be retrieved; but nuking an entire thread of posts so nothing can be retrieved is another.
To be clear, there's no way now to revisit old posts from last year?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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Yeah, that one was a classic.
Craig Fry banned!?!! He pushed the limit sometimes. Tough call. Hope he comes back.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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That thread had become bloated and water logged, so to speak, but it had an amazing amount of important (to me) links that people had posted from which I learned a ton and which amused me, literally, for years. So I look at it as a resource that I've lost.
So to that end, I'll just start another one and call it, "What is Reality?"
I've got to go to Yosemite for 10 days for work and I'll try and kick it off from up there once I have somethng worth saying.
And the conversation goes on . . .
JL
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 09:30am PT
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CMac,
there was a lot of worthy content on that thread. Above and beyond Dr. F. Above and beyond the usual banter and bs.
If you have the means please restore it.
Thank you.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:36am PT
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I heard a rumor that Dr. F is applying for job at a small Christian college and that's why he wanted it nuked. :)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:45am PT
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Wouldn't that be great Jan!
I will agree with Fruity on this one!!
I'm thinking the only way to secure what I want to save is to have MY OWN THREAD.
Maybe entitle it Blueblocr's Wisdom. Then jus cut n paste everything I want to keep.
Like this,
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
Oct 16, 2014 - 08:35pm PT
Wimpy is Nice!!!!!!!
Edit
It may use up a lot of extra computer memory. But atleast no one else could delete it. Cept maybe the big guy in the sky, CMac.
I encourage you'all to do the same.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:48am PT
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I'm interested in the subject.... but I actually never opened the thing. Once they get over a 1000 posts threads become too much to wrestle with. But I agree, some kind of restoration would be good. Or maybe some interested party can go to the way back machine and pick out the best of the best from the now defunct thread and re-post.???
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:51am PT
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"What is Reality" should be fun, John. Good idea.
;>)
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MH2
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:54am PT
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I would prefer "What is not Reality?" All posts to it would immediately disappear.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 09:58am PT
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Maybe a few don't understand.
Dr. F didn't just delete his original post thereby "archiving" aka "nuking" "his" thread.
Instead the ENTIRE THREAD is MISSING WITH ALL ITS CONTENTS.
The deal is, it was a record, a reference, of sorts. It could be. For those of us with interests in the area.
This complete obliteration was unnecessary. :(
Please restore.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2014 - 10:11am PT
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It would be great to get it back.
Hell, a good editor could sift through that content and cobble together a book that might actually sell a few thousand copies. A grad student could do a thesis analyzing it.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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It was a journal of sorts for me, I'm really bummed if true.
Seems to me, nuking an OP is one thing, posters' contributions can still be retrieved; but nuking an entire thread of posts so nothing can be retrieved is another.
To be clear, there's no way now to revisit old posts from last year?
 agreed, the tomb of evidence against the republicans and some opinion was removed for good as far as I know.
Too bad... Maybe the next one gets my attention and I keep a spare copy of posts for myself...
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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Time brings all things to an end.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
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True, Moose.
I just found something this morning that seemed to continue the thread for me...
Me thinks it will make its way back... but always wonder why?
EDIT: but you already knew that:
Oct 17, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
Jingy, don't be a party pooper.
;)
Moose
Cheers
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
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what is reality?
what is mind?
are they separate?
what is separate reality?
what is 5.12a and overhangs, aside from that route?
Dr. F's gut, the omfullofskepsis variation.
less friction and more wise cracks are needed around this place anyway
adios, Craig, it's been fun to know ya
seriously
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
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really
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 17, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
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I'm laughin so hard I just Chartred a bit in my undies.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Oct 17, 2014 - 01:13pm PT
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I for one think there has been bigger losses such as when all of Coz's stuff got removed. I know a lot of you enjoyed posting on there and I am sorry for your loss, but kindly think of getting out there a little more and posting up some climbing content on this site. I do feel that if you are forced out or you voluntarily leave they should not be able to keep your material, but I am not sure why everyone elses would have to go with it on their threads. In the past I thought just their posts would be deleted not everyone else that posts under it.
Was anyone really going back and reading a 58,000 post thread that was a continual argument?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
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Someone who thought that this was an important archive did make a backup copy right?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
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it will need to be recreated from memory...
...at the risk of it eventually becoming the foundational book for an unholy new religion.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
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Of course future Historians will only be interested in my posts.
....just kidding.
(Sound of throat clearing)
Tough crowd.
Did someone die?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
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Fruitcake is crying.
The old thread was distilled into.
HFCS = "It's ovah fo Jahovah"
Dr F = Everything is bullsh!t except for what "I" Dr F say.
Duck = Everything is Stupid .....
Largo = There's only No-Thing
Go-Bee = Jesus Christ
And the rest ..... blah blah blah blah blah.
You can all start over and do it all over again ......
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
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If they're human historians, Ward.
An alien race made of pure energy might favor St. MikeL's Letters to the Unawakened.
A Master Race of centrally programmed clonebots might go for the formal uniformity of the Gospel According to Paul.
A post apocalyptic world of small human bands would probably choose to emphasize the Book of Bushman.
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Avery
climber
NZ
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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You can't pin this one on me!
It's good to see someone else exercising their right to delete.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
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Oh well. Fun while it lasted.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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It appears that Herr Braun has the backup copy.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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"A new thread?"
" okay fellas...give me a new thread"
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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I seem to remember dr f swearing he would never delete his threads. This was after someone removed a thread he was attached to. Of course i cant prove that since he is gone.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:02pm PT
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HFCS must now become The Brown One's love slave.
It is written.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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"This mommalucca's name is......Dr.F...."
"The other one is..........Werner..."
"What....Varner...?"
" No....Verner...I mean....Werner"
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 17, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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How much horse tranquilizer would it take to bring that thing down ya reckon?
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:09pm PT
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A ponies worth.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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I'll miss him!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
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it's ok. Kliban thoughts on the subject, from the 1960's.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 18, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
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How much horse tranquilizer would it take to bring that thing down ya reckon?
I don't reckon there's enough tranquilizer in the universe to do that job. Quart of Jack Daniels might offer some temporary relief, though.
But what is that video?
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
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Good on ya, HFCS. You are not the tin man. You have a heart.
Seriously, Craig was alright by me. He was never vindictive; just passionate.
In all instances, what is recorded or written no longer belongs to anyone. Writing takes on a life all its own. Written writing is owned by everyone, and it isn’t owned by anyone. (Funny world, this.)
I would hope that Craig pops in now and then. You know, a friendly little visit from an old friend.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 18, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
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Come back soon, doc.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
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Priceless
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 18, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
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I get my wisdom on Saturdays out of Minnesota.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Life's persistent questions cannot be answered on supertopo.
I had my wisdoms removed by the dentist, MooseNumb.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 19, 2014 - 02:39am PT
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I spit out my coffee just before it went up my nose, Marlow.
Because it's inside yur feckin' cat!
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 19, 2014 - 06:18am PT
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Disclaimer: This post is only intended to be a feeble attempt at humor and is in no way suggesting that anyone take seriously the subject matter discussed herein.
Side Effects: Reading this post might cause shortness of breath, mental disorders, auto body experiences, impotence, flatulence, anger management issues, elevated BP, obesity, hazing, nervousness, disassociated mental state, hypoxy, stroke, or a mild rash. See your doctor if any of these conditions last for more than three days.
'Heaven for the Non Believer' or 'How to go to Heaven without Really Trying'
1. Be a non believer who's open minded to trying any thing.
2. Pay a hit man to off you with the stipulation that you would be unable to contact him if you change your mind and that you would never know how or when it's coming.
2. Immediately pray your ass off up until the day you die (Kind of like the religious devout do anyway).
Alternative number two;
1. Just live out the rest of your life and not stress about things not under your control like how or where you will maintain a position in the cosmos after you die or what is the price of tea in China.
Alternative two becomes much easier if you believe that the only heaven and hell are happening right here on earth right at this moment and that by accepting that you can choose to experience life more fully by choosing to 'be here now' more in this moment, in which case you might be in heaven already at this moment or as they say "Livin the Dream" at least until your teenage daughter starts dating which might be more accurately described as 'Livin the Nightmare'.
-b
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 19, 2014 - 11:52am PT
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Blooms take on Islam is certainly one understanding of the origins of the religion...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
This coupled with the Maher/Harris/Afleck exchanges makes me think that Islam may not be all that lovable and moderate after all...
Before atheism, for me, there was the idea that all the different religions were the same and that my young mind was needing to either pick one, or leave them all behind.
I can't believe I held this belief for any period of time beyond the single digit years...
With many years, and none of the nose to grindstone research completed later I feel I have made the right choice in forgoing the religious questions. Living here, now, for as long as I can is all I have to look forward to at this time.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 19, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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The crazy lady is from an episode of wife swap. I'm thinking the husband & his daughters thought it would be a permanent swap.
I have to wonder what compelled this guy to marry her. Was she once a nice normal woman like her daughters appear to be, and then she suffered some sort brain injury? Maybe, as perhaps GOB would have us believe, it was divine intervention to help spread the word of god's love and terrible punishment for non-belivers.
Whatever happened, I'm very happy she's not my neighbor. Just goes to show you need to scrutinize the parents before you put a ring on a thing...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
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Maybe, as perhaps GOB would have us believe, it was divine intervention to help spread the word of god's love and terrible punishment for non-belivers.
What's your opinion to where atheist go when their DEAD? Is your hope they just go to sleep forever, and ever, and ever? i'd think that to be hell! No i'd rather be alive being a tortured slave than no consciousness at all. i've spent have my life suffering under self-punishment.. with this comes enlightenment and reward. The ONLY thing i could not live with is knowing the women i love, my grandma, my aunts, my mom, my daughter, were being punished. For this reason i raised an angry voice to God..
And He consoled my heart, without a direct answer, i have understanding God does not inflick torture.
His Holiness is absolutely not capable. God's only downfall is that he must let go of those who choose not to call on His name come judgement day. The Law has been set in motion, and no one can break it, especially The Most Holy. All deniers will become Lucifers slaves.
It is a lie to say God is capable of hate, or terrible punishment, or anything negative!
Only in the old testament were things written to this effect. and if you notice it was mans interpretation. Because they were living directly under the law, and it's justification. Before Jesus.
go-B's ongoing pursuit has only ever been directed toward the question, "what happens when you die" as far as i've read. I've never felt a threat from his words. Yet some of you want to threaten him with bodily harm. Shameful if you consider yourself an adult!
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
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hagerty
Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
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Once again a stark reminder that sites/threads/posts can disappear from the net at any time. If there's something of value to you, make sure you download it to storage that you control.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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Moose
I wander why Affleck got so upset during that exchange.
I think it had everything to do with Affleck heard what he wanted to hear when Harris said Islam is the mother-load of bad ideas . Affleck seemed to take it all as islam is bad, (which it is). It seemed that Affleck just didn't like the idea of painting Islam with the wide "bad ideas" brush because of the millions that don't follow the Koran as strictly as Harris and Maher see the fundamentalists doing...
Affleck may think that Maher and Harris are trying to say that because of these few fundi's islam is a bad idea, when actually, they are saying that all of islam is a bad idea. A reading of the koran and a strict adherence is the only way into paradise for the true muslim... According to the book... only the fundi's will be making it anywhere in this paradise Mohammad has promised.
If you have not fought against the enemies of islam, you are as good as dead and your life means nothing...
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
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If you have the means please restore it.
Of course, the system admin has the means. The sys admin also has the backups. (…or, at least, any admin worth their salt would have.)
Having the will is an entirely different matter…
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
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Dr. F asked me to let folks know.......that he did not delete this thread.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
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hey Jingy,
you mind throwing up that link to Afflecks interview. i can't find it.
That thread is soo gone, it has been unwritten from history!
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
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right Blu because publicans/religious are as#@&%es thread is gone... I had no place to put it other than that...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
now that I see it again, listen to the beginning of harris speaking to gain the most insight.. from there to Affleck speaking is where the misunderstanding.
harris is saying the religion of islam is bad in its very nature (according to the reading of the koran)
Affleck is saying don't color them all because of the few...
I say the religion is bad and needs to be put away forever, i.e. Siding with Harris/Maher.
Listen to Harris "unpack" his view... but still affleck does not listen.
Everybody knows that the crusades were a bad time to be anything other than Christian... they used the book for their actions... but we know this was a bad interpretation... oh no... the bible and the koran are both bad books with bad ideas in them which people are stupid enough to believe, therefore, we must rid the earth of all of these books.
To assure the human survival
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
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I run screaming from debate like this. It's so pointless. They are selling products, not ideas, when they go on television.
Granted, some view it as entertainment. It's as stupid as watching reality television.
Jesus, Mohammed, and Zoroaster, please come back and take these arse-bites to task! You just might convert some of the skeptics if you perform some modern miracle of this sort.
All religions are biased, all political views are biased, and all have people who refuse to tolerate any other POV.
"Never again, Mouse, go posting on one of these threads, for you are wasting your precious time here in Middle Earth."
"Or what, Lord?"
" !!!! "
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:37pm PT
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Bluey- there is no god- no heaven, no hell. I know you can't wrap your mind around that because you believe in a soul. I (and most atheists) don't have that problem. When you die, you cease to exist. Your body retuns to the elements and eventually becomes parts of the phylum Plantae, which then may be consumed by members of the phylum Animalae and incorporated into their flesh until they die & the wheel turns one more revolution. Your conciousness is just the result of evolutionary processes designed to survive increasingly complex environs so that the DNA can continue to evolve. This actually makes me appreciate life much more because I know there is no "do over" with the flying spaghetti monster later on.
You say your god does not torture, yet I hear news every day of the suffering of the masses, from violent acts inflicted by others to horrific pain & anguish from diseases. If you believe god made the universe, then you must accept the premise that it created evil and unjust pain. If you reject that conclusion, then your god is not all seeing/knowing/powerful and now you need to invent a higher deity that did create your god and whatever has brought bad things to the party. But then you're back at the problem (aka:begging the question) of why can't the new boss stop all this suffering?
The simplest answer is the correct one. But I'm glad if you get some modicum of comfort from your beliefs. Live your life as you and those who share your convictions want. Just don't force me to live by your misguided rules.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
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Thanks Jingy
who said this,
we must rid the earth of all of these books.
To assure the human survival
Come now,,, i'm eating from the fruits of the bible everyday!
but i am an ignoramus though!
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
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Come now,,, i'm eating from the fruits of the bible everyday!
but i am an ignoramus though!
only if you choose to believe and impose the belief on others... so... yeah....
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
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BB, I see you as Intelligent! :)
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 19, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
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nope... ... its not there... it never was... no matter how hard anyone wishes it to be so...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 06:43pm PT
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If you believe god made the universe, then you must accept the premise that it created evil and unjust pain.
Yea well, within my finite imagined understanding. For a mass to congregate, there not only needs to be an attraction, but also a detraction, or repulsion. The materials of matter are subject, (moved, shaped, carved, created, recycled), by the unseeable forces/fields/laws of mother-nature, curtisy of father universe. This is where i see God separated from it, US. No one has seen God here. WHen God spoke of Adam, He had to Create the Garden. Set up boundaries, separated from the earth. where the sinless Adam could rome. Once Adam sinned he had to leave. Jesus came as God's only Son. God in material form. He differed from everyone in that He performed Supernatural feats. He ascended and descended without a rocket ship. He walked on top of water without sinking. He healed the cancerous sick of Leprosy. He put back life into the dead body of Lazarus. Jesus died so that we may live again! Jesus is the only epitome of God in this universe!
Maybe it's our inability to conceptualize time, but since the conception of the universe, or atleast the earth's start of the 24/7 rotation. Which is THE measurement of our time. We understand it MUST stop, end. So IF there is God eternal, Eternal God. He must be able to Reside outside/apart from this universe?! So if in fact He did "roll the dice" and had to jus stand back with folded arms or "sit down" like Genesis describes and let motion/laws play out because He is a Just God and can maybe only be discernable through material meanS? I'M ok with all the timeline BS. Because of what questions have been discerned by the HolySpirit.
So YES i do believe God allowed evil and pain to reside in this universe, He had to, to be Just.
And ALL will be Justified!
Nuth'in's For Free! cept maybe sleep? But that even costs 2 lbs. of body mass.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
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no matter how hard anyone wishes it to be so...
Some can wish it.........,
But for some it is steamrollered upon..........,
Life comes from all angles, some can't be deflected. Looking back, one can see a side of life that is dealt. Where we have not the ability to choose, we must deal!
Having the ability to choose is a material privilege.
Having the ability to Wish, is Spiritual privilege.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 19, 2014 - 07:32pm PT
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Heaven is loving somebody.
Hell is losing them.
Death is nothing in comparison.
Death is nothing at all.
You won't experience it.
It's not part of living,
so it's not worth a second thought.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 19, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
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'Change'
I learned a long time ago that people rarely change their minds about their religious beliefs, and then usually it is only because they have decided to so only by their own choosing, regardless of all the preaching and coercion from friends or family members. I have also found that about ninety five percent of those who need to change their lifestyle and their beliefs in order to save their health or to stay out of institutions or the morgue rarely succeed in escaping the consequences of addiction and/or criminal activity.
It is a simple fact of life that many people are unwilling to listen to and to consider new, more progressive ideas unless they are already open to learning and entertaining new ideas and contrary opinions and they are in a situation whereby their backs are against the wall, they have run out of ideas, and a new and viable solution to their problem practically hits them in the head.
Take for example that our governments rarely take action to resolve a solution to a problem until it is much too late to resolve it, and whatever issue or problem that is being addressed has already spiraled beyond all hope of a solution.
Bearing all this in mind it would probably require a catastrophe on a planetary scale such as a Krakatoa in the Syrian Desert, an extinction level comet hitting the Middle East, a worldwide pandemic spreading to that region from Africa, or an Alien invasion landing in the Arabian Desert to slow the fervor of radical Islamic fundamentalism currently taking place in the world today.
Barring all that the people of western democratic ideologies are likely to be embroiled in this conflict for many years to come.
The trick will be to prioritize our energies towards continuing our scientific exploration of the natural world, developing new technologies, preserving our natural resources and ecosystem, and engaging the enemy in a limited guerrilla war until such time that their focus shifts to a new enemy or purpose (this might take well into the next century to resolve).
-b
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
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Your request is unacceptable.
I have deactivated your account and permanently deleted all of your posts.
Hahaha
This is just like camp 4.
You fuk with the wrong guy and ...... BLAMO !!!!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 19, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Can anyone send me a copy of Dr F's letter? Daphne told me about it, but I didn't get to see it.
Jaybrofiveonethreeatmedotcom
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
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From one of the deleted Dr F threads:
"First of all, I would like to say that I did not delete myself and my threads. You can't delete yourself, only management can do it, and they will not do it at your request. SuperTopo deleted every post I ever posted, which deleted all my threads without warning.
Here is how it happened:
I was attempting to have a conversation with the management of SuperTopo about the issue of moderation but would never get a response. So finally, I found one person there that would return e-mails (I will call him Mr. B), he would happily delete objectionable posts, delete someone that was already banned (LEB), and delete Fake "Dr. F"s.
His first e-mails to me were friendly and he encouraged me to hang in there, moderation is on its way. He said that I was good addition to SuperTopo and hopes all will work out.
So a couple months later, I ask him if we can have a discussion about moderation, I wasn’t asking to be a moderator, just a response about why there was none, can they do some moderation with input from others, I posted some letters from SuperTopo about the subject.
Mr. B would end every response with “you will have to take this up with Chris”. All these messages where “cc”ed to Chris, so he was in on the loop with every e-mail.
So 2 weeks ago, after I sent an e-mail to Mr.B, I get this response
"Chris is the right person to appeal to. If you are not satisfied with his answers to your questions, then you may want to consider if the SuperTopo forum is the right place for you. From your comments, it appears to me that it is not a good fit with your interests and you should leave the forum.”
After this, I posted on SuperTopo that I may delete all my threads, I didn't want to say it I was being pressured by management. I was going to alert the Religion/Science thread and give them time to copy it before I deleted dueto the managements request.
So then I e-mail Chris directly and ask him, ”Will there be any moderation, can we discuss this. There are problematic posters on SuperTopo that bring it down for everyone. ”Since I had never received an e-mail from Chris yet, and Mr. B says I have to hear what Chris says.
I write "No response is unacceptable"
Well I got a quick response, not from Chris, but from Mr. B.
“Hi Dr. F, Forgive me for jumping in. Your request is unacceptable. I have deactivated your account and permanently deleted all of your posts. Please take your forum interests elsewhere."
I never got a response from Chris, all comments fall on deaf ears.
There will be no moderation.
Of course I have no plans to come back to SuperTopo, but I don’t want to burn any bridges or cause any hard feelings with management.
I’ve had great times here, and met many special friends and so many other great folks, SuperTopo does function well in some areas, bringing likeminded people together.
But I no longer want to be the focus of hate, lies and BS. Does anyone need that? I am not an angry person, I’m a happy clappy liberal. I need to pull away from the fear mongers and science denialists for my own wellbeing.
Cheers Dr. F "
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
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If I remember correctly, Supertopo's admin has banned people in the past without deleting all of their posts or all of the threads that they started. I personally think that is the preferable option.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
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Thanks again Jingy, i finally watched it again.
i kinda think that vid has been edited. Doesn't seem like some expressions go with the questions?
The starting format had to do with the "liberal" platform. The "freedom of speech" and all that.. Well, we are Liberals, and Democrats, and Republicans over here. But they are none of the above over there! Harris seemed to conflate all of Islam with the Jihadist mindset, to be a good Muslim.(i think this is what ticked off Afflect?) Aren't they, you, me, taking from their freedom of speech by telling them what they can think or say on a subject like homosexuality because we've expressed it as a human right? Another of our human rights is to buy cigarettes when age 18. What if a nation came out and said this is wrong and no one should smoke at all. Would we label them as hateful and try to void their freedom of speech? Or what if Russia came out against abortion. Shall we deem them suppressionist and full of hate enough to war their speech into oblivion?
What's more important, human rights or free speech??
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
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Who wants to bet that this thread will be left up?
"Not I," said the Mouse.
Did hashbro delete Dr.F#2?
Or WTF?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
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This one put up by Fruity will definitely be burned
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Oct 19, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
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i have been trusting SuperTopo as a very valuable and precious repository for climbing history and news and philosophy by the best representatives of our sport...never mind the extra noise and controversy...
now this trust has been seriously violated
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:33am PT
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How this thread got 100 posts without any pictures of Hitler or Nazi references is worthy of dissection and examination. One salient point worthy of further discourse is totally deleting a user and all of their posts. It sucks to see a rare unpublished photo of Bachar climbing disappear when Coz got banned and erased the 2nd time for example. Craig (Dr F) was an angry narcissist, but also was a published guidebook writer. That his 2 climbing posts were deleted with his 44,000 other angry missives explaining why your political viewpoint was so wrong is still unfortunate in my view.
Regards to all, but thanks to the management. Tough job with tough choices. Glad it's you making them and not me:-)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:38am PT
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Thnx Chaz!
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 20, 2014 - 10:14am PT
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Words and thoughts are but leaves doomed to either decay or blow away in the wind.
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timy
Sport climber
Durango
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Oct 20, 2014 - 10:25am PT
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i have been trusting SuperTopo as a very valuable and precious repository for climbing history and news and philosophy by the best representatives of our sport...never mind the extra noise and controversy...
now this trust has been seriously violated
I agree. I come here to talk to climbers, not necessarily about climbing. Climbers are by nature passionate people and I like hearing it, whether I agree with their opinion or not.
I don't really care if someone flashed or didn't flash Freerider. It doesn't matter. Things that do matter are religion and politics. Topics such as the denial of climate change by religious freaks who are the ones shaping politics and policy are the topics that affect the whole.
Dr.F awesome!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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Several thousand of my posts disappeared with the erasure (as opposed to deletion) of Dr. F.'s threads. The way I see it, that leaves a whole lot of extra space for me to continue posting ad nauseum. So:
Death is nothing in comparison.
Death is nothing at all.
You won't experience it.
It's not part of living,
so it's not worth a second thought.
I'm curious about the empirical evidence to support this proposition.
John
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MH2
climber
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Oct 20, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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Words and thoughts are but leaves doomed to either decay or blow away in the wind.
If you live where I do you may need to clean them out of your gutters before doom overtakes them.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 20, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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There is much empirical evidence to indicate that (A) a living human body is required for consciousness. There is no verifiable evidence that (B) consciousness persists after the body is no longer alive.
Therefore, (A) is the most likely hypothesis at this time.
When someone produces scientific evidence for (B), I'll consider and weigh it against (A) accordingly.
That is all.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 20, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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There is much empirical evidence to indicate that (A) a living human body is required for consciousness. There is no verifiable evidence that (B) consciousness persists after the body is no longer alive.
Don't we have to ask Werner about this kind of thing?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
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See ya at the crags bro! Where the real sh#t happens ;D
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Leave it to the f*#king religious to do something completely normal and everyday... like taking your kid out in the middle of the night to stomp the child to death screaming about demons inside the child while doing it...
just another day when god speaks to another human being....
(I say, the man made it all up and just wanted to kill a child, but that's just me, I'm no religious tw#t!)
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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Somewhere out there Ed Hartouni repeats his accurate assertion that anything posted here is ephemeral, though I'm sure there is some sort of corollary that the things you've written that you would most like to never have anyone see again will never disappear from this place.
This is a privately owned board, and the (rather mysterious) folks in charge can do whatever they please. If you piss off a capricious warlord sometimes heads roll. One may not like the moderation style or the opaqueness of the rules and process, but in the end the choice you have is to read/post here, or not.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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This is not a sentence... and I cannot even begin to focus on anything written herein...
Yea well, within my finite imagined understanding.
from this sentence, I could not read on... my mind stuck on this V11 boulder problem of grammar and vocabulary.
sorry... if you are trying to communicate in a meaning full way, please pay a little more attention to your thoughts and clearly aply them to the page....
Thanks and cheers
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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The question is what the admin is aiming for? I always thought it was number of hits, but looking at the front page now, what I see is a lot of threads with only 2 or 3 responses. The only one with lots still is the climate thread where people are still insulting each other as usual? Hard to figure. Meanwhile, I am spending several hours a day down loading my favorite historical threads lest the whole scene disappear.I suspect there will be several people who feel as Khanom does.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:46pm PT
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Bummer Eric. I will miss your presence here..
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
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Is it possible to delete individual comments after two weeks when the edit sign disappears?
Otherwise, one has to take out the whole thread?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
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Well he also posted hundreds of wonderful cactus photos that I wish I had downloaded. His mineral collection was great too.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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Words, like leaves, clog the gutters of the mind and cause thoughts to overflow into the yard.
CMac owns the rake is all.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 20, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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Sorry to see that you're leaving Eric. I'll certainly miss your contributions.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 20, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
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And all we have left now is Science!
And science is either waiting for their Grant approval or too busy verifying the results.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
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This is really pretty funny.
First of all the story from Dr. F. That’s hilarious (and sad). More of the absurdity of this world, I guess. (Isn’t everything just really WEIRD??)
Secondly, congrats to HFCS for now owning this thread!
Third, the thread seems to be a continuation. The break was just a hiccup. I guess Victor Hugo was right: “Not all the armies in the world can stop an idea whose time has come.” Apparently, the topic is an important topic.
Fourth, It’s the same people associated with the same content. Dogmatic diehards, it would seem.
Welcome and hiya, all!
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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One for locker
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Why are anal beads sold in different colors when they always come out brown?
Edit: owning this thread!
He's up for it.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
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I come here to talk to climbers, not necessarily about climbing (Timy)
For some younger climbers it may seem beyond the realms of possibility that arguments about placing bolts, speed record ascents, gear analysis, latest difficulty levels, etc. would ever lose their thrilling appeal and become pedestrian . . . but occasionally older climbers or ex-climbers would like to converse on other topics, and for that I appreciate Chris's forum. I, for one, would not be here if it were strictly climbing content. Also, I like the "wild west" approach for throwing everything into the same mix and allowing us to figure out at a glance what we are interested in, rather than placing threads in numerous folders. Just my 2 cents worth.
Thanx to HFCS for starting things up again.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
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^^^ +1+1+1 ^^^ +1+1+1 ^^^
the sentiment of the entire post is agreeable....
Thanks for speaking my mind for me
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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The religion vs. science thread is gone?
I think this proves that there is a God.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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Yes it proves that God is eternally ultimately existing.
The atheist class can't prove anything.
They just keep guessing and theorizing and then become frustrated and wave there hands and say nobody knows.
So stooopid.
They know nothing and at the same time say they "know" by saying ("nobody knows").
More stooopidity!!!!
No wonder they all commit mental suicide ......
Just see what happened to Dr Failed himself!!!
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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Also, I like the "wild west" approach for throwing everything into the same mix and allowing us to figure out at a glance what we are interested in, rather than placing threads in numerous folders.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I find other forums where subject content is folder-confined, to be disjointed and cumbersome, to say the least.
To arrange that system for ST would be a probable death sentence for what is an otherwise great format.
I hope that particular mistake is never made.
Just see what happened to Dr Failed himself!!!
Dr.F's misfortunes had nothing to do with atheism---rather it is most likely due to inadequate Vitamin D intake and the unrestrained consumption of grain products.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
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Yes it proves that God is eternally ultimately existing.
as long as man insists on it being so....
But ultimately.... I believe 'Yes', there is no god!
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 21, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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This was a good thread. It had nothing to do with climbing, but it seemed like most of us were old farts who had already told their climbing stories too many times anyway.
If Largo wants to re-animate this thread under a topic of his own, I won't participate.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 21, 2014 - 10:14am PT
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John Gill said: "For some younger climbers it may seem beyond the realms of possibility that arguments about placing bolts, speed record ascents, gear analysis, latest difficulty levels, etc. would ever lose their thrilling appeal and become pedestrian . . . but occasionally older climbers or ex-climbers would like to converse on other topics, and for that I appreciate Chris's forum. I, for one, would not be here if it were strictly climbing content. Also, I like the "wild west" approach for throwing everything into the same mix and allowing us to figure out at a glance what we are interested in, rather than placing threads in numerous folders. Just my 2 cents worth.
Thanx to HFCS for starting things up again. "
Me too. I often show up to catch words of wisdom and current events. But unexpectedly seeing a historic John Gill (or John Bachar, Pat Ament, Jeff Lowe, Frank Sacherer, Ron Olveski, RobbinsFrostPratt etc etc etc etc etc) climbing photo pulling some heinous route or unbelievable move is a great, rare and priceless added bonus. Also, it sure nice to pull some of WL's (or Big Mike or anyone's current etc etc) beta on some Red Rocks (or Yos or Jt etc etc) climb before I go there on a trip. Mt Project has a lot that too I suppose. Historic photos and discourse, rare and priceless: here.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 21, 2014 - 10:17am PT
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AS IF ON CUE, I POST THAT AND THE VERY NEXT THING I SEE IS THIS WHICH SOMEONE BUMPED TO THE TOP: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1223002/Don-Lauria-Climbs-Half-Dome-Summit-1966
Thanks Steve G.! Awesome thread which starts great and gets even better as in the middle of it first Ken Boche and then Don Lauria himself shows up and posts some great dinosaur era pics. Lauria of him crawling out on Thank God Ledge and then climbing with Kor in knee deep snow! Great stuff!!!! Where else is that available?
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:48am PT
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It's about time that thread got booted out of the universe. Using a SuperTopo thread as your daily blog, thereby bumping your thoughts to the front page every single day, all day long; very lame. Just start your own web page and blog.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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MUST
NOT
POST LAME THINGS ON LAME THREADS....
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:14am PT
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Stay Sharp!
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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^^^^^ Speaking of which . . . how can particle physicists isolate one photon or one electron in an experiment?
Curious.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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Dingus^^^^ don't you think it cool if your kids could come back here In days future after ur dead and read all the intelligent statements you've provided?
I thankful to be able to go back and read all the cool things that people said and did around Blitzo's passing!!
And I'm really happy that all Blitzo's picture threads are still available to share. I'm amazed they didn't take those down
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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investing a lot of personal effort in the content of this forum with the expectation that the effort will be preserved is naive at best
Yep
And the ones taking themselves way too seriously will suffer the most too.
Guys like Jebus for example.
Hahahaha
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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it's the usual:
it's naive to expect or assume that a place like this will remain a useful archive...
otoh,
it's equal parts cynical to expect or assume that it can't/won't be.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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I just found out from Craig that he was inactivated involuntarily. This disappoints me, because he provided, in my opinion, a great deal of positive value to this forum. He was no anonymous, malicious, poster. A great deal of his argumentative posts were rather clearly tongue-in-cheek, and he posted a lots of climbing-related posts as well, not to mention his outstanding pictures of cacti.
And no one can seriously argue that his threads drew no interest. If we include two previously deleted "Republican" threads, his threads generated well over 100,000 posts. Sure, a lot of posts were repeats by people who wanted the last word, but there were plenty of original, interesting and well-presented ideas that enlivened the campfire for many of us.
OK. I admit that I hadn't posted on the predecessor of this thread for a rether long time, and lately had little to say even on the "Republicans" thread because I felt I had nothing new to add (and, by implicaiton, little new was added by anyone else), it still provided entertainment, with rather little harm. What, exactly, did Craig do that people found so contrary to the spirit and letter of the forum?
I fear that in "pruning" the forum, we are taking too much fruitwood.
John
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
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Someone should start a science thread for conversations about all aspects of science. Religious and political posts would be inappropriate. Knowing little to nothing about experimental particle physics I would like to know how single particles can be isolated in experiments - or if they in fact are.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 22, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
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I think they're judged by seeing or measuring their predicted indicators appearing on a screen during an experiment set up to see if the predicted indicators will actually appear on the screen... That's much better than introspectors finding an external God, I tell ya... ^^^^
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
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Well, there is the old Wilson cloud chamber that I remember from 60 years ago.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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I've thought for some time now that there should be a separate science thread since most posters to this thread are science oriented. I too felt like we had reached the end of useful conversation on religion vs science. Of course if neurobiology comes up with new findings on religious experience and the brain, well it might creep back in after all.
I certanly learned a painful lesson about downloading things I want to keep when I read them rather than postponing that for the future. To say that nothing is worth preserving however, is just an anti-historic and anti-cultural form of nihilism it seems to me. If that's the case, why have museums, why have books? Why bother to pass knowledge from one generation to the next? Why not just revert back to the pre Homo sapiens past?
As for the internet in general, it's not clear yet how important and lasting an influence it will turn out to be. I already find my reading disrupted by more and more ads and I'm wondering how soon most of it will start to seem like television, which was also thought revolutionary in a postive way when it first appeared.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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Well DMT, I'm quite sure that if given the choice of preserving the historical threads on here or not, people would come up with the money for most of them. As for the science vs religion thread, no one was given a choice were they? And for this site and many others, I have a program that blocks the ads. Perhaps someone will come up with those for blocking the ads that obscure the whole article for 30 seconds on sites like the New York Times?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
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I personally would pay to preserve some of those and I know others who would as well. Not everyone is bitter and cynical.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 22, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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Not everyone is bitter and cynical.
no.... most can hardly be bothered... after all... there is no issue up for discussion
Stupid bump edit:
Oct 22, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
I fear that in "pruning" the forum, we are taking too much fruitwood.
If nothing else, leave the threads as monuments to the stupidity and the brilliance posted therein...
whoops....
that has not happened yet, in any case....
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
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I hear, dmt and jebus, pretty much agree.
For my part, no guarantee was ever assumed. Were it, then yes, that would be naivete.
Still, the obliterated thread was a nice record or reference or so (despite ionlyski's post) for those (climbers at the Fire) with interests in these areas. Where was the simple courtesy - let's just say climber to climber courtesy? Before a delete or return button by an administrator was pushed.
Shame.
Nor did admin/management ever deign to respond in the slightest.
Double shame. :(
.....
Dr. F, for what it's worth, I too enjoyed your presence here at ST. Further, I didn't suspect for a moment that the thread's obliteration was your doing. Anyone w experience here would immediately know a member couldn't obliterate all posts of other authors without the management's input. Best of luck to you, comrade. Keep the charge! :)
Remember, you are what you eat, lol!
PS. Jan, Cintune and others, it was fun mixing it up with you, believe it or not, lol! For the record, I always entered the thread more or less in "debate" mode. Were the circumstances different, sipping lattes in the corn belt, eg., I'm sure the postures and exchanges would've been different. Anyway, thanks for the back n forth, I enjoyed it all. :)
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
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Pretty interesting khanom.
Hows your Arduino project going?
I have a Uno R3 and am in the process of designing a wireless voltmeter with xbee's and graphic oled display ......
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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If you like a thread, download it to your hard drive.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
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Yes, we all know that now. Hindsight is wonderful!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
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And fructose, although you and I clashed numerous times, we also agreed when others didn't on several occasions. And you gave me some really good references to look up and to order from Amazon, so I hope you'll be back and that was not a farewell statement.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
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pure view volume is the most monetarily valuable asset to the forum, not necessarily quality of views..this dynamic does change when an advertiser makes a direct buy from ST's inventory and may not want to be associated with particular content
Makes me miss good old, "Everything is no-thing."
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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I have posted on Dr.F (Craig Fryes) threads like religion vs science and others. I was going to give a light hearted oh, well, it's gone....let's get on, with life. Then I started re reading all the responses. Sorry this happened and hope you all find recovery of information and healing from this crazy deletion. Cheers, lynnie
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
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Dingus:
I would vote for the right of people to determine for themselves what is worth investing their time and energy in and what isn’t. What works for you is what works for you. Let's let others say for themselves. I think we've had enough of the Truth Police for the time being.
To what Khanom and W.L. wrote, here are citations to how the economics work on multiple-sided platforms and increasing returns to adoption technologies.
Arthur, B. `Competing technologies, increasing returns, and lock-in by historical events'. Economic Journal, 99, 1989, pp. 116-131.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
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great post khanom.
hope you don't stay gone, as i'm interested to hear what the other thing you want to bring up is...
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 06:58am PT
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Dingus: Does cmac get a vote too?
Everyone gets a vote.
Getting things right, and keeping them right, with customers / users is what enterprise is all about. From that come revenues and profits if an enterprise is efficient.
Beyond that, there are other stakeholders (investors, employees, management, government, professional observers / raters / pundits, etc.), and they need to be in the mix, as well.
At some point, organizations make commitments to those stakeholders, and the extent to which they fulfill those promises (aka, “brand”) usually explains a great deal of their success or failure. People will legitimately bitch about product or service if the seller / organization does not live up to its part of the bargain.
No product and service is merely the physical or digital artifact that is tangible. Most of the things that people buy (even if by just visiting a website) are the subjective experiences and perceptions that get “wrapped around” a tangible product or service. In many instances, it’s the only thing that really matters to people.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Why was Dr. F booted? He seemed a lot more civil than most of the Climate Change posters. Those characters are like unruly children.
Now we have Sketch and Locker, who stayed away from the original thread. I think it intimidated people because of the quality of writing. Most posts were well thought out and unusually coherent for this place.
That is one of the reasons that I liked it. It had an unusually high IQ level, and a cast of characters who were familiar either with the problems or with the arguments.
Too bad for Dr. F.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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Didn't Dr F say he was booted by a Mr B.
So mister B I'm assuming must not be Chris.
Maybe his dad?
But somehow it seems to me that Dr F was complaining to management about certain posters and wanted them booted (?) all while authoring the two most OT threads on the forum.
Dr f was incremental on keeping the Repub are wrong thread on the top daily all while a large percentage of forum members gave their continual displeasure to its existence at the top.
I believe (speculating) that he pissed off the Owners of this site when he started complaining and asking for removal (banning/and or verbal flogging) of certain individuals.
When you are the most prolific OT engager and start complaining I believe you've crossed the line with the site's owners.
They will then 0wn YOU ........ :-)
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Oct 23, 2014 - 09:28am PT
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It's difficult understanding exactly what is ot for the site. Is the site about climbing, or about making money? We don't get to say and the creator isn't telling us. We each just participate or not for our own reasons. Not so different than the rest of our lives?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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I mostly participated in the deleted thread because I'm awesome, and the thread was one of the few here big enough to accommodate that.
The thread is gone, but I'm still awesome.
Do I mourn it's loss? Of course I do, as one would mourn the loss of the teaching agony of a testicular boil or steady companionship of an incontinent old mutt.
I must let this loss flow over me. Fortunately, the deleted thread motivated me to get into yoga.
While that may or may not be exactly true, it could have been, and therein lies the jewel in the eye of the lotus here.
For a thread is both Miles and Bieber, blowjobs and butthurt, yoga and Crossfit (TM)., dragged cats and drunken poets, the suspended, ethereal beauty of Saturn and the cheap, sun-peeled paint of a Saturn. It is betting Big Quatloos over No Thing with other disembodied minds.
A thread is the very best of who we are, and the very worst of who we never intended to be but became anyway in the continual process of becoming that is existence in this infinitely narrow slice of the universe we call the moment, which is nothing more than the meeting of past and future, neither of which actually exist at all in the present, which is, after all, all there is, even if it's defined by two nothings, and therefore, in and of itself, nothing at all.
Namaste.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:18am PT
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As I've said on another thread, if there is anything of historic value on this site that you value, download it sooner rather than later. And let us hope that Grossman is able to put up his historically oriented site sooner rather than later.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:18am PT
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Cheers and thank you for your thoughts. If I see cmac tonight I promise I will not mention any of this (website business), at all. ;
I believe in science this is called observer bias?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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DMT,
We may carry on, but I think we're the poorer for it. Through ST, I got to think of Dr. F. and you, among several others, not as mere posters, but as friends. Fortunately, I still can maintain contact with Craig, but I will miss his posts here. They not only provided me with great entertainment (OK, sometimes a great target, too), but they did so with humor and grace, just as yours do so often.
I just have a hard time seeing from his posts and his person how he deserved his banishment.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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ps. Now that I think about it, of all the model gods Ive ever read about, the capricious and 'quite human' Greek ones were my favorite.
Not to pollute the reincarnation of this science thread with religion, but the Greeks viewed capriciousness and apathy concerning human activity as an essential divine attribute. They believed that any "god" that cared about human activity enough to intervene in it was, by doing so, being controlled by humans, and therefore could not be a "god." Several of the Pauline Epistles, but particularly the first chapter of First Corinthians, acknowledge that the idea of God saving humanity was folly to the Greek mind.
John
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
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Yep. This is the model of open forum moderation I have always advocated here. Don't get involved, whack when you feel like it and never explain.
Sounds to me more like a third world dictatorship than a form of moderation.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
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I don't disagree with that assessment but I object to military style discipline, especially from those claiming to be free wheeling individualists. Arbitrary over reaction, mass punishment, and no explanations.
Think of the wider implications for our democracy. Are you really saying that we are incapable of governing ourselves without a dictator?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 23, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
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So Americans can handle life and democracy but climbers can't? :)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 23, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
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Oh yeah watch it says quite a bit.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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Instead of bitching start a new religion vs science thread.
I dare ya :-)
Anyways doesn't matter as there is God.
Atheist has no clue and is only a mental speculator who ultimately guesses about everything just like republicans. :-)
And ...... there's no escape from that truth .....
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
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Atheist(read xtian) has no clue and is only a mental speculator who ultimately guesses about everything just like republicans (read animals). :-)
And ...... there's no escape from that truth
updated to reflect a bit of reality.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 23, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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Stuperposto
Validate the post
Validate the carrion
Validate my ego
Validate or roast
Validate contrarians
Validate a bagel
Validate my mind
Validate my bod
Validate euclidean
Validate in kind
Validate what's odd
Validate Phrygian
Validate validity
Validate my cat
Validate a kiss
Validate stupidity
Validate that
Validate this
-bushman
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:38pm PT
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^^^That's Great
on supertaco we can validate
we write musings of our love and hate
the hucking back and forth we call a debate
emotions get trampled when intentions are to educate
why can't we understand we're here to create
fa's, solo's, walls, 5.19's cry for a mandate
but it is the heart of the adventurer we should propagate
when the heart is soaring don't hesitate
let it fly procreate
only with words can we try to resonate
experience is mine my word's are a gift for yo to appreciate
only the eraser should we negate
to each their own should be the state
one day soon God will vindicate
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 24, 2014 - 03:18am PT
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bushman and blueblocr
room for all
Jingy or is it jingy?
if you only get to ask one question ..to ask. what should that question be??
GOD?
it really only works as I posed it on the other thread that just opened
but glad to have both you
and
ALL..back
on this thread
even if it hurts
to whom it may concern HELLO
the name is GNOME Ofthe Diabase some here get pissy at my initials
what is in a name?... It speaks to some thing Throwpie, I hope saw, and can tell about.
On the West coast of the Hudson River way back East 'cha know is a four or five pitches high
(old rope length165'or150feet useable, both tied in)
Swath of off limits (why?) solid collumnar rock some would call it traprock: Diabase doncha' know
God is in the name you use also too
a rose by any other name would smell stink just as sweet: the same
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 06:59am PT
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DMT: I think there is solid argument to be made that above a certain (relative) size, democracy is unworkable.
Read Alexis de Toqueville’s “Democracy in America.” As an American, you need some distance to see the forest from the trees. Almost no one provides good commentary on his or her own culture. It's like awareness being aware of awareness.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 24, 2014 - 07:15am PT
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To support Khanom’s argument once again, here are two images that might explain why it is of economic use simply to use a product to a vendor—even if it is free of charge to the user. A MSP (multiple sided platform) creates economic value by bringing together two different users groups that want access to each other. Usually one user group will subsidize (pick up the tab) for the other user group (called, the monied side). I’ve also included a slide of well-known MSP arrangements among different user groups brought together by an MSP.
Fascilitating markets (places where buyers can find sellers and vice versa) might be one of the greatest ways to create economic value there is. We believe in it economically and democratically.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 24, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
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Who can forget the unforgettable words of the great minds of the religion thread...?
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
I don't hate religion or the concept of Christianity, it's the people who proliferate it, evangelize it, bastardize it, kill in the name of it, and otherwise ram it down the throats of everyone around them that irritates the sh*t outta me.
Aside from that, it's great!
After reading this post from the front page of the religion thread... I felt like I had allies on this board.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 24, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
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HFCS - Send me an email, I got something interesting for you, if you are interested.
Cheers
(Edit: I have pointed to all that I thought you'd find interesting in other posts... no need to contact any longer
Cheers)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 25, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
Oct 24, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
Who can forget the unforgettable words of the great minds of the religion thread...?
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
I don't hate religion or the concept of Christianity, it's the people who proliferate it, evangelize it, bastardize it, kill in the name of it, and otherwise ram it down the throats of everyone around them that irritates the sh*t outta me.
Aside from that, it's great!
After reading this post from the front page of the religion thread... I felt like I had allies on this board.
So Jingy, what do you find great about christianity?
Do you feel to be corrupted by the negative aspects written in the above by anyone around here on the Taco?
i feel like the only thing being rammed down throats everywhere is science.
It's understandable for the science types to conflate Islam to Isis. Being under the law of cause-effect, when a recipe is written, what it produces is proof/truth. What Isol is doing today could be saved as a truth prescribed by the Koran. But where science is naive is in conflating the old testament to the new testament. The bible is filled with many books. But it is severely separated into halves. The old testament; which is spiritually known as, "the shadow of things to come" - Vs. the new testament. The OT is The Law, and deals with the negative aspect, and hate there-in materialism. But the second half, the NT, or the ending, considers remorse, and offers forgiveness as the dominate energy.
The old testament was the cause for the effect in the new testament..
Thus The Whole Truth is in The Bible.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
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Then I said "The Bible is a total lie. Total. Lie."
And then I said. " if you've seen one religious nutcase then you've seen them all. Same nutter. Different books."
And then I posted some HitchSlap.
And then I posted an eating popcorn gif.
And then.......no more "And then" .
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
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It's cool Flop, someday u'll Flip
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 26, 2014 - 12:18am PT
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Tell me more, oh white-man-who-knows-what-is-hidden-to-all-mortals-because-of-magical-book. (Who was absolutely not indoctrinated as a child). You won't flip (or learn anything new) because religious types live in a fantasy of their own creation that doesn't permit facts, reason or evidence.
Getting popcorn.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 26, 2014 - 08:59am PT
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religious types live in a fantasy of their own creation that doesn't permit facts, reason or evidence.
For evidence of this fact being a fact, I point to the last post by the defendant aimed at Jingy....
Try and guess the connection between what is written and anything I have written in any previous posts.
Dude just went off on some personal rant about a personally held belief...
Starting with the fantacy world created with this sentence:
So Jingy, what do you find great about christianity? ...
Have I ever said what you claim I have here?
... and ends with this bit of personally held belief/fiction:
Thus The Whole Truth is in The Bible.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
If you say it then is so...
There is no god
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 26, 2014 - 09:42am PT
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Have I ever said what you claim I have here?
You hadn't much. But it sounded like you were agreeing with what ur "allies' had said?
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 26, 2014 - 10:19am PT
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BB - Proving my point... and highlighting what is wrong with the first part of my quoted post...
it's the people who proliferate it, evangelize it, bastardize it, kill in the name of it, and otherwise ram it down the throats of everyone around them that irritates the sh*t outta me.
You bastardized what I wrote for your purposes.... the cause of all distrust of you and your kind that I hold.
Believe it or not, you are not speaking to anyone real when you write to this avatar/title...
Eventually, you will have to go on faith that you even had these great conversations online...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 26, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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i feel like the only thing being rammed down throats everywhere is science. . . . It's understandable for the science types to conflate Islam to Isis. Being under the law of cause-effect, when a recipe is written, what it produces is proof-truth. What Isol is doing today could be saved as a truth prescribed by the Koran. But where science is naive is in conflating the old testament to the new testament. (BB)
Wow . . . I'm speechless.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 26, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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Well John, you can't cure stupid, but you can sedate it.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 27, 2014 - 06:45am PT
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Science isn't conflating it but some science types are. Of course many Christians do the same thing. They declare that the New Testament replaced the Old, until it comes to gays for instance, and there they are back in the Old Testament quoting the abominations. Pot calling the kettle black it seems.
There is an interesting group called the red line Christians who only go by the actual words of Jesus which are printed red in many Bibles. They have a pamphlet called "What Jesus taught about Gays" and when you open it up, it's absolutely blank. Those are people actually practicing what they preach it seems to me.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 27, 2014 - 06:51am PT
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There's been a whole lot more evangelizing scientism around here than religousism.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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See ... Jingy has no brain and only Youtube brainwashing copy, paste and linking.
Those steeped in academics can never understand how the true arrow of science and religion both point to the same target .....
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 27, 2014 - 09:56am PT
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Jingy has no brain
F*#k off chimp
There proof positive...
Which only raises the question...
Why would the brain of Braun be interested in squashing any thoughts of those without brains...?
Feeling bad about yourself this morning Braun?
Or was mine just the first of the day of finding piles of sh#t to flare up about how stupid they are?
You should know Braun... I have no sway in this world... You are making me out to be something... when actually... I am nothing... same as you.
Hopefully, there will be less judgement thrown around...
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2014 - 10:07am PT
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See .... you have no brain.
I didn't squash anything.
I just said you have no brain .....
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Oct 27, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
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There's been a whole lot more evangelizing scientism around here than religousism
Ya gotta love the internet!
;>)
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 27, 2014 - 04:02pm PT
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Given that we're all posting on the internet, we're all 'science types', by definition.
In a very real (and historically verifiable way), science is at odds with religion.
The Dark Ages provides a data point. For 1000 years, when religion held sway as the dominant way of thinking, quashing nearly all scientific and technological development, there was almost no scientific or technological progress in Europe.
Enter the Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, and Modern Age, when religion lost its coercive monopoly on thought and action in Europe and science began to take the reigns. In a mere 400 years, we've gone from superstitious villages in stasis to this.
We've tried both science and religion. Science enables us to understand, innovate, and invent. Religion hampers or prevents those processes.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 27, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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BTW, it should be noted that there are no "words of Jesus", given that there is no historical evidence that he ever existed at all. Any book that claims to provide them is anonymously authored hooey conjured long after his supposed death.
An acceptance of homosexuality as normal hails directly from science (given that it is clearly a natural phenomenon that has been observed in over 1500 species so far), as well as the humanist principles with historical origins that pre-date Christianity (as far back as we can verify, anyway). It's not hard to imagine that homosexuality was accepted through most of prehistory among small bands who needed each and every member to improve chances of survival.
Choosing one's morals with regards to homosexuality today based on a 2000 year old fiction is a dodge. Every one of us chooses our own morals. Those who are comfortable discriminating against homosexuals today find a way to justify that - through religion or other sources. Many of the religious are uncomfortable with such bigotry, but choose to trade the promise of eternal life for its acceptance anyway.
Those of us who are not comfortable with such bigotry reject those doctrines that purvey it as morally wrong on their face.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Why would a dumbshit Braun insult those with brains?
Answer:
To bolster his low self-esteem.
except that he would have us believe he is above ego... he is, after all, above and far beyond it all.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I'm just honored to be talking smack with all y'all and especially the jokers that get my goat like Werner, JGill, Largo even Locker. Honored dammit, downright honored.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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without an opinion..?
honorable...
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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why does left wing politics always boil down to gay sex?
Again, why do the less intelligent conservatives always seem to see L vs R as some sort of gay sex issue?
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Tvash: Science enables us to understand, innovate, and invent.
You think. You don’t know. You have theories, models, and frameworks that define what is real. But you don’t know. It’s a good guess, don’t get me wrong. But you don’t know.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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And Mike knows that you don't know. So there's that.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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The arc of Western civilization speaks for me. I am but a humble observer.
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MH2
climber
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"To Have a Theory, a Model, a Framework, and a Good Guess About Him Is To Love Him, I Think"
Might have been a mouthful for Phil Spector.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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"To Have a Theory, a Model, a Framework, and a Good Guess About Him Is To Love Him, I Think"
you can have to deepest most profound thoughts on "him" and it is so...
I've always contended...
There is no god
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Hey Mikel, for a quick lesson in science, I suggest that you go play in traffic. It should clear your head about the material world.
Science can explain and predict religion. Religion can't explain or predict anything.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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nobody needs to play in traffic, someone might....
..carry on.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Best worship the Great Bearded White Guy in the Sky, just to be sure, right?
But what if ISIS is really right?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Can't
wake
up
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I guess that this cell phone I'm holding was built by scientific, rather than Christian, thinking. I guess that I've designed phones, multimeters, robots, and heart monitors using scientific, rather than Christian, principles.
But it's all just a guess. When someone who's never designed anything tells me I don't really know, I'm going give that evidence every speck of consideration it's due.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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You think. You don’t know. (MikeL)
You think you don't know? I don't think so!
;>)
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Perhaps you folks could say what you do know perfectly, completely, accurately. How about just one thing?
How about science? How about air? How about an atom? How about a street? How about a fly? How about a color? How about a moment in time? You choose. Pin something down, for once and for all. Show us what you absolutely know scientifically.
Surely you must know SOMETHING completely, accurately, perfectly?
Not one thing?
(DMT is going to wine that this is my “one note” as a musician. I suppose it will continue to be—until someone satisfies the request.)
There is no time limit on a response.
What you have, I believe, are theories.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I know I like my drone better, even if it does seem to have a thing for my face.
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MH2
climber
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Surely you must know SOMETHING completely, accurately, perfectly?
Not one thing?
I know that you cannot be convinced that anyone knows anything completely, accurately, and perfectly.
Does that count?
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Show us what you absolutely know scientifically.
The state of entropy of the entire universe will always increase over time and changes in the entropy in the universe can never be negative.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The state of entropy of the entire universe will always increase over time and changes in the entropy in the universe can never be negative.
what's entropy?
what's "the entire universe" there are parts of the "entire universe" which are no longer in thermal contact with other parts... so as a "universal" idea, entropy has to be limited to the causally connected parts, which means that the universe is not necessarily in equilibrium as a whole...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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one thing that I know?
calculating when and were the Moon will rise... from any point on the Earth's surface
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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calculating when and were the Moon will rise... from any point on the Earth's surface
Thank you, Ed... Now I want to find out for myself too..
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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what's "the entire universe" there are parts of the "entire universe" which are no longer in thermal contact with other parts... so as a "universal" idea, entropy has to be limited to the causally connected parts, which means that the universe is not necessarily in equilibrium as a whole...
Could you explain how you know this?
Whatever "evidence" you have for these "disconnected" parts of the universe implies a causal connection. Even if you say that there "was" a causal connection that we are "only now" detecting, but that connection is now gone, implies evidence of the "goneness," which I'd like to understand.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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That makes zero sense.
If you can see it it obviously had a casual effect on you. Or the telescope detector. Or whatever.
Thank you
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Beautiful shot, Ed.
As for entropy, Dan Smith, Art Brook and I were trying to determine a business name in 1969 or 1970. We loved General Dynamics, but since it was already taken, we decided on General Entropy. We even manufactured some smashies under a subsidiary of General Entropy, named Acme Smashies.
Sad to say, our venture as industrialists was not particularly remunerative, but we always thought it would be a good idea to be asociated with something that was increasing. We even had a firm motto: "The Second Law of Thermodynamics is for your protection."
Now you're telling me that the entropy of the universe isn't necessarily increasing? How could you?
John
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 25, 2017 - 06:34am PT
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Thnx Doc! Wow what a picture !
That stuff about the Two theories that attempt to solve the horizon problem -
1) the theory of cosmic inflation and 2) variable speed of light.
as so often is true , seems to be beyond my grasp.
Be sure I will go and check it out as I believe Learning never stops.
V V V V
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 25, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
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the image from the broken link above:
the problem with causal connection in the universe as it applies to the uniformity (or non-uniformity) is referred to as the "horizon problem" which you can get an idea about here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_problem
for those of you interested in a slightly more elaborate explanation, see S. Weinberg Cosmology pg. 205-206
"...Therefore in a matter- or radiation-dominated universe no physical influence could have smoothed out the initial inhomogeneities and brought points at a redshift z_L that are separated by more than a few degrees to the same temperature, in contradiction with the nearly perfect isotropy of the microwave background at large angular scales observed ever since the microwave background radiation was discovered."
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