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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2014 - 07:05am PT
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It will now be celebrated as "Indigenous Peoples' Day" - a much more honorable celebration, IMO.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/06/columbus-day-will-now-be-indigenous-peoples-day-in-seattle/
SEATTLE – The Seattle City Council is replacing Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day in the city.
The resolution that passed unanimously Monday celebrates the contributions and culture of Native Americans and the indigenous community in Seattle on the second Monday in October, the same day as the federally recognized Columbus Day.
Tribal members and other supporters say the move recognizes the rich history of people who have inhabited the area for centuries.
"This action will allow us to bring into current present day our valuable and rich history, and it's there for future generations to learn," said Fawn Sharp, president of the Quinault Indian Nation on the Olympic Peninsula, who is also president of the Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians.
"Nobody discovered Seattle, Washington," she said to a round of applause.
Several Italian-Americans and others objected to the change, saying Indigenous Peoples' Day honors one group while disregarding the Italian heritage of others.
Columbus Day is a federal holiday that commemorates the arrival of Christopher Columbus, who was Italian, in the Americas on Oct. 12, 1492. It's not a legal state holiday in Washington.
"We don't argue with the idea of Indigenous Peoples' Day. We do have a big problem of it coming at the expense of what essentially is Italian Heritage Day," said Ralph Fascitelli, an Italian-American who lives in Seattle, speaking outside the meeting.
"This is a big insult to those of us of Italian heritage. We feel disrespected," Fascitelli said. He added, "America wouldn't be America without Christopher Columbus."
Seattle Mayor Ed Murray is expected to sign the resolution Oct. 13, his spokesman Jason Kelly said.
The Bellingham City Council also is concerned that Columbus Day offends some Native Americans. It will consider an ordinance Oct. 13 to recognize the second Monday in October as Coast Salish Day.
The Seattle School Board decided last week to have its schools observe Indigenous Peoples' Day on the same day as Columbus Day. Earlier this year, Minneapolis also decided to designate that day as Indigenous Peoples' Day. South Dakota, meanwhile, celebrates Native American Day.
Seattle councilmember Bruce Harrell said he understood the concerns from people in the Italian-American community, but he said, "I make no excuses for this legislation." He said he co-sponsored the resolution because he believes the city won't be successful in its social programs and outreach until "we fully recognize the evils of our past."
Councilmember Nick Licata, who is Italian-American, said he didn't see the legislation as taking something away, but rather allowing everyone to celebrate a new day where everyone's strength is recognized.
David Bean, a member of the Puyallup Tribal Council, told councilmembers the resolution demonstrates that the city values tribal members' history, culture, welfare and contributions to the community.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Anyone interested in the state of things in the Americas before Columbus arrived should read "1491" by Charles Mann. It's a large book, and there is plenty to argue about or disagree with in it, but it does paint a different picture than your fourth-grade teacher did.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if Plymouth Rock had landed on the pilgrims, instead of the other way round.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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I am irrevocably indigenous.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yes, fook Columbus. Many years ago I read an excerpt from his travel log. In one paragraph he is praising the kindness and generosity of the people who greeted him in the New World. In the next, he's talking about how they would make fine slaves.
We have admired him because he had giant balls and a vision. But there are plenty of wonderful people worthy of admiration who had giant balls and a vision that didn't include slavery.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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My only problem with this is the use of 'indigenous'.
It seems more suited to a prostrate exam.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sketch is still bitter the Confederacy lost.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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The Washington Taters got their butts kicked last night.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Without smallpox decimating the native populations, the europeans would have been driven into the ocean. Cortez and his cohorts would have been skinned and stretched on willow hoops for the amusement of the Aztecs. Disease leveled the playing field and made such conquests possible. Without it, the US would look very different today.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Perhaps we should have national smallpox day . . .
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John M
climber
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Even without disease, the Europeans likely would have defeated the native Americans, because the Europeans had superior weapons and they used the native American tribes against themselves.
The amount of mythology around native Americans is astounding. They were tribal and sometimes incredibly brutal people. Some were good, others weren't. Whole tribes were often wiped out by a different tribe. There is nothing different about that from the Europeans.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Hallmark has a card for it.
Susan
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Meanwhile, the Vikings still play football in Minnesota
Thanks a lot, man! Now the Internet Social Justice Warriors (ISJW's) are going to take that away, too!
;)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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What if Columbus Day become an "awareness" day? Like National AIDS day or December 7th?
Don't need any new statues or anything, just have to carve a frowny face on him and replace his sextant with a whip.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's true, thems were a f*#ked up time. In fact, I often ponder my luck at being born in the advanced age I was, in a country with plenty of freedom and opportunity (Good 'nuff for me), with access to clean water and food and a life that I can pretty easily spend surrounded by friends and family - providing I don't screw something up royally.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I often ponder my luck at being born in the advanced age I was
Don't you wish you remembered some of yer previous incarnations like some of us do?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mushrooms help : /
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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goodbye seattle for they are sleepless in columbus and in digenous they're angry and in italy unsettled
ahoy, captain, i think i've spotted a columbus day sail!!!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Geez,
Everyone knows that the indigenous people were just screwing the pooch until whitey showed up and showed them the light.
Nothing ethnocentric about that.
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John M
climber
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Everyone knows that the indigenous people were just screwing the pooch until whitey showed up and showed them the light.
I don't think anyone meant that. I certainly didn't. Its just this glorification of indigenous people that bothers me. They had good things, they had bad things. Just like the Europeans. If we could take the good from both societies, and leave off the bad, then we might have something worth having.
One problem of course would be getting large groups of people to agree on what is good and what is bad.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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adjective
originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
"the indigenous peoples of Siberia"
synonyms: native, original, aboriginal, autochthonous; More
I don't like getting long-winded but this a subject important to me.
By the precise definition of "indigenous" so-called Native Americans did not originate in North America. In fact, the only place that any given human can be accurately said to originate from is Africa.
All other places on the globe were migrated to.
When human groups migrated to new areas if there were prior human groups residing there these prior arrivals were usually either absorbed and/or destroyed by the subsequent ones.
This happened in the Western Hemisphere on numerous occasions --- long before Europeans arrived.
The tendency in recent years for certain groups of Americans to suggest that the history of European arrival in the New World is unprecedented in cruelty and heinousness ---is not validated when looking into what is known of the migratory history of the human race. In fact, it was quite normal and status quo, outside of occurring in relatively recent history.
Stronger human groups always supplant weaker ones when choice real estate is involved. Like it or not this is the way that nature functions. Humans and other hominid species have operated like this for millions of years.
Only in relatively recent times have new and radically different political dimensions been injected into this formula so that various moral, legal,and philosophical aspects seem to have been brought into play.
Now we have politically motivated groups that subsist on portraying history and contemporary times as solely consisting of perpetrators and victims.
The perpetrators are conditioned from childhood to feel miserably guilty ---and the victims to feel and act like victims deeply wronged beyond redress.
A particular and specific psychology is thereby actually cultivated to produce a political and social result that can be exploited.
This perp/victim conditioning is not healthy for any society in the long run. Once again, in the service of transitory political ends we have been set at one another's throats --- this time over a history that is misunderstood and taken out of context , and cannot be changed--- despite all the endless hand-wringing and transforming of language and holidays.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Mario conquered Donkey Kong. I believe he was Italian. For such short legs, he sure could jump over fast rolling barrels.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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No caffeine intake, good taste in music, not indigenous to Seattle.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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I they wanted to do it right Bill Gates should hold a Potlatch and give all his sh*t away.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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A really funny thread.
What do you want, or what would you have wanted? What will make you ok today?
Chief:
I doubt that you are particularly concerned with barbarism, but for the rest, "barbarism" is just a point of view. I understand that it can be er, "challenging" when directly confronted with barbarism, but it's just a place where people were at the time. (It's like there is no room at all for a personal and genetic sense of evolution.) When looked at from a couple of hundred (or thousand) years from now, I'll bet it will look like I'm stupid every minute of the day.
Personally, I'm happy that I've moved to Seattle. It's a nice place to be, if anywhere is conducive to "be."
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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"Only in relatively recent times have new and radically different political dimensions been injected into this formula so that various moral, legal,and philosophical aspects seem to have been brought into play.
Now we have politically motivated groups that subsist on portraying history and contemporary times as solely consisting of perpetrators and victims.
The perpetrators are conditioned from childhood to feel miserably guilty ---and the victims to feel and act like victims deeply wronged beyond redress.
A particular and specific psychology is thereby actually cultivated to produce a political and social result that can be exploited."
Now we have Television, an instant way to learn about others and enjoy them as part of our world.
Now there is an internet, which should be able to show us that others are as creative and intelligent and worthy as we and ours.
Now we have mind-altering substances (but only if ya want to) to mitigate our tribal fear of the others.
AND NONE OF IT SEEMS TO WORK, boo-hoo, boo-hoo.
Do your part and hope the rest do theirs is about all you can expect.
I'd be down with a Bill Gates Sky River Potlatch and Land Grab, StahlBro, my bro.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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"Cortez and his cohorts would have been skinned and stretched on willow hoops for the amusement of the Aztecs."
I guess you don't know that many other tribes that were non-Aztec helped the Spanish win because the Aztecs treated those other tribes like sh#t. Also, Monteczuma did not make good decisions during the whole affair. And if it wouldn't have been the Spanish it would have been the Brits or French or who knows who else. Are we supposed to believe the Europeans would have never discovered this land if it wasn't for Colombus? Bottom line, no matter how much it may irk you someone would have found it and still treated people like sh#t. It was a clash of civilizations. Perhaps some of you should read up on the evidence they have that the Ansazi tribes fought and used cannibalism to scare other tribes at one point.
"Human remains from other sites in the area were similarly treated, and three explanations have been proposed: hunger-induced cannibalism, ritual cannibalism adopted from Mesoamerica, or something else altogether. Patricia Lambert of Utah State University and Brian Billman and Banks Leonard of Soil Systems, the contract archaeology firm that excavated 5MT10010, propose that cannibalism was associated with violent conflict between Anasazi communities in the mid-1100s, contemporary with a period of drought and the collapse of the Chaco system. They note a sharp increase in evidence of cannibalism between 1130 and 1150, followed in each case by the abandonment of the site, then a decrease in the early 1200s as the climate improved.
A religious leader from a Ute tribe, on whose reservation the remains were found, supervised the archaeological work and will rebury the bones."
http://archive.archaeology.org/9709/newsbriefs/anasazi.html.
Why does whitey hate himself so much when it was his/her ancestors who did the terrible deeds. Any other race that still blames you is just ignorant and bitter. for gods sakes f*#kin get over it.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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It has always felt to me like having a Columbus Day was kind of celebration of Imperialism and oppression. It's really not our (current generations) fault it happened, but to make it a holiday?
Aren't we past that?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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I'm for changing it to NatAm day for sure. Way more fun.
However, some are giving Columbus a bad wrap. He was just the navigator.
It was the jerks who were running the Catholic Church at the time who made a mess of things.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2014 - 05:04pm PT
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Let's just agree to disagree, The Chief.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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It was the jerks who were running the Catholic Church at the time who made a mess of things.
Yea, the Columbus' discovery has a complex legacy. Finding the New World had huge effects on Europe.
The Catholic Church was pretty much the seat of all European knowledge up until 1492 and fully sure of itself at the time. It seemed like everything was already known, already discovered.
What Columbus found, the New World, was to blow this complacency wide open. There were entire races of unknown, civilized and cultured peoples, vast new lands, previously never-seen plants and animals. None of this foretold or described in the Bible, nor by the ancient Greeks.
Columbus's discovery led to the edifice of the Cathoiic Church as the source of all knowledge and wisdom being doubted and questioned. Which the Church hated, but they had no response, no way to explain this new, parallel world. With doubt came fresh ideas and thoughts and over time came the Enlightenment and rise of modern scientific and secular thought.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
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Excellent non-partisan historical post, crunch - thanks.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Crunch (and "Mister E")--I don't know where you learned that but it's certainly not the version of history that I've ever heard (i.e., that somehow Europeans and the Catholic Church thought they knew everything before Columbus' discovery (well maybe you're right about the Catholic Church).
Check out the "Age of Discovery"--and remember what we learned in grade school about he Portuguese sailing down the west coast of Africa and then around the Cape and all that, which predated Columbus.
Obviously Columbus' discovery was huge, I don't mean to minimize it, but to see his voyage as something that came of the blue is not historically accurate--the Europeans were busy discovering stuff at the time of Columbus, and he was a part of that, maybe the most important part from our perspective, be he certainly didn't start it.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Meh. Berkeley's been celebrating that for over 20 years, and Santa Cruz has for probably a decade.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Hey blah blah, yes your right about voyages of discovery around Africa. But African had ben known about for centuries, so intellectually posed no challenge to existing European knowledge. The African peoples were regarded as barely-human heathen savages, whereas in the Americas were found entire cultures and civilizations that had arisen without any knowledge of the Church or of a Christian God.
I don't really know that much detail. There's a cool book, Shores of Knowledge by Joyce Appleby, which delves into this in detail.
I'd be psyched to learn more.
What's "Age of Discovery" a book? movie? TV series?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Didn't Northern Exposure have an episode to this effect years ago?
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Anyone ever read the Jesuit Relations? Very interesting observations on the eastern tribes by a group very much at the mercy of the huge confederations that existed at that time.
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cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
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Such a silly holiday. Makes no sense. Uneducated's folk hero
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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What's "Age of Discovery" a book? movie? TV series?
It's the name historians use to describe the primary era of European exploration (something like the "Rennasiance" or "Enlightenment")--I happened to remember the term from college history classes and just reading about various old-school explorers.
I don't want to overstate my credentials--the above is about it!
Maybe others who like to post here have recommended books or other sources of info--one book I really enjoyed was about Magellan's circumnavigation of the globe (actually his crew's -- he didn't make it past the Phillipines due to some poor people skills).
http://www.amazon.com/Over-Edge-World-Laurence-Bergreen-ebook/dp/B0018ND8B6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412730173&sr=1-1&keywords=magellan
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Wow. Conservative men really really like this holiday.
We can keep it, I don't give a sh#t. Who cares? Let's have a Mao and a Bush day, a Michael Jackson day and a f*#king Mike Tyson day.
It's a day. On the calender.
zzzz.
Wanna talk real sh#t? Let's get rid of the GOD DAMNED standard system and go to metric - like every other developed nation in the world. I can forget who the hell this Columbus guy did or didn't do but thinking that my great grandkids are going to have to memorize liters/pints/feet/yards gives me a headache that I would cure with a bowl and a quick cuddle with my husband but y'all don't want us to have those either.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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F*#k that. Inches and feet are way cooler.
The metric system is all anal and sh#t.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Wanna talk real sh#t? Let's get rid of the GOD DAMNED standard system and go to metric - like every other developed nation in the world. I can forget who the hell this Columbus guy did or didn't do but thinking that my great grandkids are going to have to memorize liters/pints/feet/yards gives me a headache that I would cure with a bowl and a quick cuddle with my husband but y'all don't want us to have those either.
Wondered that myself, but I don't give a f*#k one way or the other, I can roll both ways. The 1/16's and 1/64's get a bit tiring though...
Greg, what you just did is technically called, "going Metric". Kinda like going postal....
Also, the same people who have the bleeding hearts for "indigenous" people and hate for my man Chris Columbus, are ironically the same one who always preach about the benefits of "diversity" and "melding of cultures".
Meh! Go live with the indigenous people of Africa, and please leave your iPhone and laptop at home, that's not "indigenous". Idiots...
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dirtbag
climber
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"Your man," huh?
Why is he "your man"?
Are you proud of the fact "your man" wanted to enslave people?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I think bluey and Columbus are from the same tribe Dirty...Columbus is my man because his name is on my steel bike frame...OS
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Columbus day just isn't a big deal. So what, did you know all know that the Aztecs killed people and that the Mayans were super mean and grumpy all the time? It's way easier to blame the victim because in the end what were the Natives wearing?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Columbus day just isn't a big deal. So what, did you know all know that the Aztecs killed people and that the Mayans were super mean and grumpy all the time? It's way easier to blame the victim because in the end what were the Natives wearing?
All that 'natives treating other natives with savagery' is not to be discussed amongst the politically correct crowd. And we cannot also discuss what the Spanish did to Central and South America.
Let's just focus on those mean Christian white males. They are the root of all evil, not muslims or narco-terrorists that happen to be brown and driven only by greed or the will to kill those they disagree with.
Maybe we should see what happens to the world when the US retreats from global affairs, completely. No more bombs, no more aid, the US just walks away. Have a nice day....
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dirtbag
climber
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And there you have it. The resentful, white male, pissed because his boat is being rocked.
Of course indigenous people could be barbaric too.
But why honor any barbarian?
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2014 - 09:08am PT
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Bump for The Day!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 13, 2014 - 09:11am PT
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Happy Columbus Day, my paesanos!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 13, 2014 - 09:20am PT
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I fail to see how this thread survived.
We support and condone bigotry and hatred here on ST.
Home of Super Tolerance.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
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Happy whatever day
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
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America sucks! Italian explorers suck!
Native-americans rock! They created the most prosperous and efficient country in the world. Hug an Indian today. (If you're in the Gay Area,Ca. that does not mean Indians from India, you racist).
Indians are so awesome...
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
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Its odd people hold resentment over what happened 500 years ago. Its odder still that many want to hate people in this day and age for the race they were born into over what happened 500 years ago.
If you want to hate on something hate on western disease which killed up to %90 of natives before they ever saw a white man
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
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Come on, you all know this is the real story of Columbus discovery of America. Here it is in the original spanish.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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Europeans didn't discover America. Native Americans did. Europeans invaded the continent and systematically destroyed the native cultures, considering them to be godless savages. They used this to justify slaughtering them and breaking every treaty they ever signed with them. They marched them off to reservations so they could claim the land they lived on for 1,000's of years. Proud.
Did Native Americans fight amongst themselves? Sure they did. Just like Europeans, Asians, Aficans and every other human race. Doesn't justify what our ancestors did to them. Is America a great country? Sure it is, but that doesn't justify what we did to get here. You can still be proud of your country and acknowledge the mistakes we made. Not acknowledging them dooms you to repeating them, and creates a dangerous mindset that some people are superior to other people.
Celebrating the fact that white europeans finally showed up somewhere is super lame.
Oh, BTW, Spanish are european caucasians, in case you didn't know that.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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well i don't know what was goin' on here in the the hood back then,
but across the sea, this chick was gettin' it ON!
After a struggle to claim her right to the throne, she reorganized the governmental system, brought the crime rate to the lowest it had been in years, and unburdened the kingdom of the enormous debt her brother had left behind. Her reforms and those she made with her husband had an influence that extended well beyond the borders of their united kingdoms. Isabella and Ferdinand are known for completing the Reconquista, ordering conversion or exile of their Muslim and Jewish subjects in the Spanish Inquisition, and for supporting and financing Christopher Columbus's 1492 voyage that led to the opening of the New World and to the establishment of Spain as the first global power who dominated Europe and much of the world for more than a century. Isabella was granted the title Servant of God by the Catholic Church in 1974.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_I_of_Castile ~~~~ while she did dig a good TR, she rightfully laid into christopher for wrongful enslavement.
raise your beer if you coulda stood a little isabella on your team
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
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My ancestor janse van bommel marselis was fined for selling alcohol to natives on a sunday back in the 1650's in what became Albany NY. my apologies to both natives and religious folk alike. I will whip myself for penance
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
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In modern times, native American's consulted with the Italian mafia on how to run a casino that can prey on the gambling addictions of the modern big city white trash? Payback.
To take it further, we should go back to the indigenous days when women did all the work and there were no taxes... ;-)
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
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Since I bumped this thread, I'll share a few random thoughts.
•Columbus had mighty big balls and took an interest in the world. Kudos for that. A lot of other curious motherf*#kers have cajones, too.
•Finding a New World was still an act of dumb luck.
•But would you want your kids emulating him? Or honor him with a holiday?
They (the Arawak Indians) ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned.... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane.... They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."
Yep, he really said that.
Who should we bestow holiday honors upon?
•Obviously this is a symbol for a bigger issue: the crap treatment of indigenous folks by Europeans and European descendants the last half milineum. Chris was worse than some, not as bad as others, but the most visible symbol.
•My partial Italian and indigenous person ancestry aside, I've got no skin in this game. But I do wonder whether appropriating Columbus Day and renaming it Indigenous Persons day is the best approach. It seems more reactive and bitter than proactive.
So how about this instead? Let's dump the Columbus Day festivities, because the man really was quite an as#@&%e, find an indigenous person to celebrate on a different day, and get behind that?
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
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They had never encountered metal and cut themselves because of it. They had plenty of weapons. Warfare was common. Its a tragedy what happened but it was part of the times. Not the first or last time a people with dominant technology has taken over another culture.
Or should Italians be blamed for destroying the Germanic culture?
I understand people have a need to "feel good" by blaming others but this anti US and specifically anti white male attitude is having serious negative effects on the youth of our nation. I am not sure how its helping anyone
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
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Happy Bartolome Day!
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
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Jim, that sopranos episode is hilarious--I've seen it many times.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 12, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
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Right after they rammed Junipero Serra down our throats as a holy man, we get to go through this dismal crap again?
F*#k the Spaniards, The Dons, The Conquistadors, and their caste systems, their hierarchies, their mission system, the approval of the King of Spain and the Pope and all their canon of saints!
Oh, and don't forget the white bigots who perpetuate their sacred and honored accomplishments.
And Seattle is not an Italian name.
There is no society named the Braves of Seattle.
That could happen, but why would they want to leave Atlanta? Just sayin'.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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white people blaming other white people for something that occurred over 500 years ago.
good stuff. I wish I was tolerant enough to be intolearant
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 04:56pm PT
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It's funny how people trash the founding of their homeland.
Stupid holiday anyway. The Pilgrams did the heavy lifting and Native contamination.
It was not intentional either! That's like saying an illegal from Guatemala really wanted to bring TB to children here.
Bachar and I went over this before.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 12, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
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We celebrate Columbus Day and the Fourth of July because history is written by the winners. Had the Aztecs, the Mayans or the Iroquois Confederation developed the necessary technology and skills to cross the Atlantic and begin colonizing Europe, the fate of its native inhabitants would have been far uglier. The different perspectives on history often depend on which side you happen to be on.
To Americans, the Alamo is a shining moment of heroism. To the Mexicans who are the heirs of a colonialist empire far more ruthless than anything to be found north of the Rio Grande, the war was a plot to conquer Mexican territory. And neither side is altogether wrong, but choosing which version of history to go by is the difference between being an American or a Mexican.
A nation's mythology, its paragons and heroes, its founding legends and great deeds, are its soul. To replace them with another culture's perspective on its history is to kill that soul.
That is the ultimate goal of political correctness, to kill America's soul. To stick George Washington, Patrick Henry, Jefferson, James Bowie, Paul Revere, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and all the rest on a shelf in a back room somewhere, and replace them with timelier liberal heroes. Move over Washington, Caesar Chavez needs this space. No more American heroes need apply.
Followed of course by no more America.
This is how it begins. And that is how it ends. Nations are not destroyed by atomic bombs or economic catastrophes; they are lost when they lose any reason to go on living. When they no longer have enough pride to go on fighting to survive.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:29pm PT
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so indigiday is observed according to the (pope's) gregorian calendar?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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I still can't accept the fact that my Native American Great Grandmother managed to be from the one tribe that still doesn't own a casino.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
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It's funny how people trash the founding of their homeland.
You need to go back a bit further, Bluey - short in your "homeland" take.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:38pm PT
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Bluering is living proof that Homo Sapiens did in fact cross-breed with Neanderthals.
Also explains Republicans and Mouth Breathers now that I think about it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Eric, California and the US is my homeland. Born and raised. My families (paternal and maternal) fled northern and southern Europe to raise families here, to start a new life.
As for native Americans, it sucks what happened to them. No doubt. Even slaves bought from north African (muslim) slave-traders was a regrettable time in our somewhat brief history
As a country and American people, we are still a really great, caring people. There's an old Churchill quote that, "Americans always do the right thing after they done everything else wrong".
It doesn't sound charitable, but I think his point was that Americans persist and persevere until everything is good. And yes, we are not infallible.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 11:51am PT
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When are my Viking peeps gonna get some love? They were here second!
And then there was that drunken Irish monk.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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When are my Viking peeps gonna get some love? They were here second!
And then there was that drunken Irish monk.
Go back to Greenland!!! You guys had a pretty good thing there...until it froze. It was a pretty good score at the time.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
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Instead of renaming Columbus Day, we could have a Custer Day on June 26 ;-)
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 13, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
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Seattle could have avoided all the negative press had they simply chosen a different day to celebrate The Indigenous Peoples.
They just couldn't help themselves, though. Passive-aggressive behavior is an age-old Seattle trait, borne of The City's Norwegian ancestry.
The proper description would be Indigenous Mascots Day. Norwegian-Americans using the Indigenous Peoples to stick it to the Wops! What a country.
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| Messages 1 - 81 of total 81 in this topic |
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