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blake
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 7, 2006 - 12:03am PT
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anyone know the status of any ropes semi-permanently fixed to sickle ledge? mostly, can i count on them being there and being in decent condition for rapping/jugging? thanks
(my brother and i are hoping to make a good attempt at the nose, our first el cap route, next week ... in other words, wish us luck, and say hello as you cruise past us)
blake
PS i posted on the "climbing routes" page, but i doubt many of the people who would know read that page very often ..
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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fix your own damn ropes, sheesh.
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blake
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2006 - 12:52am PT
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clarification: we are hoping to climb to the top of pitch 6 or so, then rap and sleep on the ground. we don't have enough rope to fix all the way from the top of 6 to the ground, but i heard that there are often "general use" ropes fixed up to sickle. .
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WBraun
climber
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Generally not to sickle.
You don't have enough ropes? Then just climb to sickle with your bags and bivy there and fix to 6. No need to sleep at the base then.
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blake
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2006 - 01:10am PT
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thanks werner. we might just end up doing that. we were hoping to avoid the extra day of food/water in the bag. we'll be slow enough as it is ..
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WBraun
climber
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That's ok, take your time and enjoy.
The nose is the best climb on El Cap. There is something for everyone there, for the hardest hardman to the mere mortals like you and me.
Good luck Blake .........
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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If you have 3 60m ropes (or similar combos), you can reach from Sickle (4) to the ground. No real need to fix to 6 - those 2 pitches are easy and go very fast in the morning.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Blake,
Good Luck with your climb.
See yourself cliping the summit bolt ladder and the climb is yours.
Juan
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Bivying on the ground is illegal.
I'd climb to sickle, fix, and rap. Then haul the bags. The hauling on the lower pitches is a real drag.
Two climbers that don't have 2 dynamics and a static between them? Go to the store, my man.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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I've done both, stashing the bag at sickle and rapping down, and bivying on sickle. The time I got to the top, we bivied on sickle. It's uncomfortable enough a ledge to ensure an early start the next day. If you had time to fix ropes up to the Dolt hole, you'd have an easy time making El Cap tower the next day.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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blake, good luck, sorry for the attitude.
last time I was under there, a guy (YMS guide) was totally bitching out a party for rapping and jugging on his ropes. He was furious about it. So if there are ropes there, consider they are someone elses and they may not want you on them.
you'll likely get busted or eaten by Bear 46 if you bivy at the base.
Are th4e Hubers Fk'n ropes still fixed down from Stovelegs? why do those guys get a free pass to leave their damn ropes strung all over El Cap all year?
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Good beta, Werner. I have two firm and fast rules for the Nose:
1. Do not fix. Walk up and start climbing.
2. Do not bring a portaledge. Snuggle up to the Cappy, it don't get any better.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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self sufficiency is always the preferred choice.
dont depend on the ropes there.
dont depend on yosar.
climb under your own steam and you can be proud of your successes and stand behind your failures.
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Blake - with all these speed and free ascents becoming more common, consider your slowness a "retro" ascent and for those who ask tell them 'slow' is the new 'fast'.
A friend and I did Triple Direct in utterly slow fashion last month (3 nights but 4 really long days), but we made it and had a blast.
Fix, blast off from the ground, whatever....just keep going. If you guys are desperate for an extra rope for rapping so that you can fix on day 1 and haul straight up to sicle on day 2, Id be glad to lend you one. Im in Berkeley, but up in Yosemite this weekend.
Greg
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blake
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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wow, thanks for all the responses.
lambone, no problem. i hear your points about Other People's Ropes.
and yes, we actually have plenty of our own ropes. we just don't want to carry them all up and up and up and then down and down and down 3000 feet, and no one has volunteered to run ground crew for us so that we could drop them after jugging. if i'm not mistaken, we would need four 60m ropes to fix to the ground from the top of pitch 6, which seems like too many ropes to carry up 3000 feet (and then down again, hopefully).
also, by sleeping "on the ground" i naturally meant "in the Ahwahnee" which we have reserved for 10 days, just in case. :)
greg, thanks very much for the offer! as i mentioned, it's not really the owning of ropes that's the problem so much as the carrying of said ropes. by all means "slow" is the new "fast" and i'll let you guys know that "really-way-too-damn-heavy" is the new "ultra-light". ..
i suppose we'll end up suffering the extra-day-ultra-heavy-not-recommended hauling up the route to sickle, fix the next few pitches, and sleep on sickle. seemed like there should be some creative way around that plan, but i guess we ARE trying to go up, not around.
PITME,
blake
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Mimi
climber
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If memory serves and one is willing to do the free variation and avoid the swing into the Stovelegs, you can fix from the belay at the very bottom of the Stoveleg cracks with four ropes to the ground. You need to count rap stations from that belay to the ground. Not only does this avoid all the bullcrap involved with hauling the traverses but you get to climb all of the Stovelegs. And you avoid rat problems on Sickle.
What yo and Werner said: Enjoy!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Cool route, have fun!
We were total weenies with a broken/overslept alarm clock & made it to dolt with about five hrs of light to spare, june/nofixing. Days are shorter now, but what tF?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Anecdotal evidence suggests that if you coil your spare rope(s) before tossing them to the ground, they are less likely to get stolen. A second option would be to leave them fixed instead of dropping them (more work for the rope thieves, plus a little work for you to retrieve them after you get back down). A third and probably best option would be to make friends with someone in Camp 4 who is having a rest day and have them collect the ropes you drop. Offers of free beverages might be effective in enlisting a professional ground crew....
Have fun up there and post a report when you get back.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"If memory serves and one is willing to do the free variation and avoid the swing into the Stovelegs, you can fix from the belay at the very bottom of the Stoveleg cracks with four ropes to the ground."
This was where the Hubers ropes were fixed to last June. Not sure if they pulled them or what...
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valygrl
climber
Santa Cruz
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"..."slow" is the new "fast" and i'll let you guys know that "really-way-too-damn-heavy" is the new "ultra-light". "
what do you know. I'm cutting-edge.
:)
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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I don't like to fix anymore especially on popular routes. I have had people re-fix my ropes and take my carabiners. I have had people haul over my ropes burning the sheath. I also worry about someone knocking rocks off and having them damage my ropes. I have found that I put less time into the route by just going for it even if I have to sleep close to the ground.
Fixing ropes can be an invitation for some climbers to use them and jump ahead of other parties. Maybe I am paranoid but, I have seen all these things happen.
Take your time and enjoy the route.
Ken
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Lambone, you should get your facts straight before spouting off.
I was one of the riggers for the Huber bro film. We stripped the lines almost every day so that they would NOT be in the way of other climbers.
This was the Huber bro's request to reduce the circus factor. I think we/they did a great job with clean up. We even packed out our own sh#t on top of the captain. What other film crews that you know does that?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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sounds like those hubers do their best not to interfere with us wankers. good on em. not to mention they climb like bad mofo's. are they gonna be tryin to do the nose in the fall? jus curious.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Haa haa, thanks for setting me straight on "the glitch" Tom, haa haa.
Yes, they will go for it again. It looked like they were going to be really close the day Thomas fell. Sorry for the thread drift....
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Hi Ammon, bro...sorry if my facts are wrong. i wasn't reffering to your work or effots with the Hubers.
When I was in the Valley in early June (when i saw and talked to you), you guys hadn't started work on the Huber film yet. The Hubers wern' in the Valley yet, you were waiting for them.
We wen't up to get on South Seas, and met a guide from YMS at the base of the Nose. I asked him what was up with the fatty ropes hanging down from Stovelegs that appeard nobody was using.
He said they were the Hubers ropes left over from the year before. Being a local and "in the loop" I took his word at face value.
That's all i know, sorry if I was wrong about that. And thanks for answering my question as to whether the ropes were still there, I am glad you guys cleaned up all your stuff at the end of the project, that is way cool.
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Mimi
climber
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If you're around Ammon, please explain to the community why you recently nailed a section of sandstone in Zion that had gone clean. Sorry I don't recall the route's name. I guess you were just being "efficient" as you explained to me previously when I asked you about this issue.
Cheers,
Mimi
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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So Mimi I guess you don't aid any routes that have gone free right?
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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I've done it two ways. Fix to Sickle and then go up and drop some ropes in the morning to friends, or just go up there in the late afternoon and snooze. It isn't the best ledge, but it is a hell of a lot better than some places I have stayed on. At least it isn't covered with ice.
Mimi's idea sounds cool, but I have never done it that way. The penjis are what I have wasted time on for sure. That jump penji into the stovelegs is one of the funnest things I have ever done, though. It would be a drag to miss it.
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Mimi
climber
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No, Kev, I haven't done any lately. And if I didn't think I could do a route in good style, I wouldn't get on it. I don't believe in lowering the bar for my own gain if it affects the next party's experience; i.e., f#king up the stone. As long as you're not being destructive, nobody gives a f#ck. This is a question of ethics, not style. If you can't tell the diff tween the two, dust off the thinking cap. The question still stands.
How's it going BASE. I threw the variation idea out there since they were crunched for time and didn't want to fix that many ropes. Hopefully, he'll write a TR and post pics of their adventure.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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mimi,
you calling out ammon for nailing when he should have gone clean? perhaps a new thread?
just curious....
EDIT:
mimi, does your sh#t not stink? please advise
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Mimi
climber
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I haven't read the rules of proper thread posting. Instead of attacking me, why not address the question. Or are you a member of the current ghetto speedclimbing team?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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not attacking
do you not feel that your ? of ammon may be perceived as atacking?
ok, the not smelley sh&& tin was not nice.
but really, are your climbs so pure that others who are less pure must be held to your standards? that is my perception. my peception is only based upon what you post here since i have not met you.
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Mimi
climber
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My climbs so pure...? My standards? You obviously have no clue. You were wrongly indoctrinated and must be deprogrammed.
As soon as your particular style becomes a rationalization for a poor and ultimately destructive ethic, then it’s time to step back and see what you’re supporting. As soon as anyone feels they can and should be destructive as they feel is necessary, under pressure, then you have a formula for ugliness, i.e., piton scars. The gift that keeps on giving.
How bout this one. If you're about to die and you have to do whatever to save your ass, then it's okay.
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wonderbread
climber
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I've heard that if one repeatedly sticks something in their mouth they will eventually begin to like the taste.
You enjoying the taste of foot yet, Lambone?
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Mimi,
You must be talking about Cosmic Trauma. It has gone clean once, I was climbing Spaceshot when they were on it.
Yes, I put one piton in after I tried everything else. I've talked to two other parties since the clean ascent and they had to use the same pin, in the same place. The rock changes!
Lambone, waz up bro? Sorry if I was harsh. I'm just sick of people always jumping to conclusions and bashing the Hubers.
Cheers!
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Tell Alex he still owes me $65 for sitting on Liz's sunglasses.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Lambone, those ropes were not the Huber's and they were not fixed all year there. Right before the Hubers got there, there was a huge team going up the Nose. Some Isreali guy was in a "modern dolt car", he was dying or something.
Anyway, I think most people thought that film crew was the same as the Hubers.
Cheers!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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mimi,
i admit.
with regards to you i have only the clues of your postings here on supertaco land.
and i perceive someone who questions others use of a piton here and there,
or on WoS threads, vitriolic statements made without anything added.
or like above, questioning ammon about a piton in a clean section.
BFD.
if you want to post like that, dont be surprised when others get different impressions of you than what may be the real you.
have a good day.
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Mimi
climber
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How much is "a pin here and there" too many to a guy like you?
As I said to Ammon in an email exchange tonight, you're also probably a card-carrying conservationist in every other arena, why can't you be one in this one? I am one by the way.
Edit: Your contention is, is that the route doesn't go clean anymore. Because several other parties haven't been able to find the placement and you're supporting that idea. Where has that placement gone? Could it be that your placement on that ascent caused the change or are you blaming previous parties for your inability to solve this pro problem in the allotted time at your level of patience? This whole notion that the rock "changes" begs the question of what makes the rock change quickest. Duh?
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Sep 10, 2006 - 04:36am PT
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Mimi, I suggest you go climb Cosmic Trauma and find out for yourself that this section will indeed go clean.
I'm guessing your beef with me is that I was on a speed ascent and you think I nailed because that was the easiest/fastest solution. I assure you that I wouldn't place a piton if I thought I could use a clean placement, no matter how long it took me. I am not afraid to take the whipper and I'm not afraid to take the time and climb the rock under it's conditions.
On the Reticent I wasted over 30 minutes trying to get through a section that I thought I could beak. After three whippers (at the crux) I finally realized that I would have to put three heads in. I'm not a big fan of heads so I wasn't that psyched about doing it. BUT, that is what was needed to climb that section.
Maybe the Cosmic Truama guys will chime in on this one. Who knows. I'm not sure what piece of gear they used in that section. Maybe there was a fixed pin there when they did it.
Maybe they used a cam hook, which I'm pretty sure would work. BUT, I think cam hooks could be more damaging than placing a pin.
Mimi, have you ever placed a pin in sandstone. You can practically bang it in with your fist to make it stick enough to get your weight on it. I assure you I wasn't up there bashing the hell out of everything for the sake of time.
We should go climbing sometime and you can see for yourself what I'm all about.
Cheers, Ammon
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Sep 10, 2006 - 12:16pm PT
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I shouldn't presume to speak for Mimi, but it seems that what puts a major bug up her ass is all about clean climbing and the overall destruction of routes that have become super popular...and I can assure you, that she, like all of us, slammed in a lot of iron in the old days.
Pros: Stops destruction and makes a route *hard as hell* again to boot. Maybe if you are stymied, you should just bail..but I bet that there are few who would.
Cons: Things change on routes, and most everyone packs a bolt kit and some pins, even on the routes that have gone clean except for some of the old classics, and are willing to use them if need be.
I dunno. Before anyone could get their hands on the first cams, there was a ton of pin bashing, and I loved it. But, as I said, things change. Rock, ideas, what you will do to do a route.
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Paul
Trad climber
Muir Beach, CA
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Sep 10, 2006 - 02:54pm PT
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Blake,
I have a couple beefy older lead lines that you can use and then donate to the valley boyz if you want. I live on the other side of the Bay (Muir Beach) if you want to pick them up. I could always meet you in SF. These are good jugging ropes, no stress marks, etc. Just old, perfect for a jug fest. But, ya gotta remove them after your climb!
Lemme know. And, good luck.
Paul
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Seattle, Wa
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Sep 10, 2006 - 03:35pm PT
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If I have to drop a rope and I don't have ground crew I label the rope with a tag with my name and the words "this rope is not abandoned" and the date. I have never had a problem. However, I haven't done this in a few years and stealing of gear has increased a lot at the base of El Cap.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 10, 2006 - 08:48pm PT
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mimi,
"How much is "a pin here and there" too many to a guy like you?
As I said to Ammon in an email exchange tonight, you're also probably a card-carrying conservationist in every other arena, why can't you be one in this one? I am one by the way.
Edit: Your contention is, is that the route doesn't go clean anymore. Because several other parties haven't been able to find the placement and you're supporting that idea. Where has that placement gone? Could it be that your placement on that ascent caused the change or are you blaming previous parties for your inability to solve this pro problem in the allotted time at your level of patience? This whole notion that the rock "changes" begs the question of what makes the rock change quickest. Duh? "
i dont honestly know how many pins are too many. does anyone?
how do present day clean routes go clean? is it because people pounded pins?
i do not pretend to know what is best for everyone.
i cannot assume that ammon pounded when he could have gone clean. even if it were someone i never heard of, i cannot presume to know that they could have done it clean. how many pins others pound is not my concern. why is it yours?
conservation is a funny word for any human. the only humans i know who may be true conservationists are those that give something back to the earth. those that die and contribute their carbon back to the earth are probably such people. but really, how can anyone who burns fossil fuels, contributes to greenhouse gases, takes from the earth, uses minerals, lives in houses built of dead trees, climbs with equipment made from petroleum products be a conservationist?
i doubt anyone that posts here is a true conservationist. we try. that is all we can do.
card carrying? haha
i believe in mining because i use the resources gained. i think anyone that does not believe in mining should stop using the resources gained from mining. aluminum, steel, iron, titanium, get rid of those gold nipple rings, etc.
i believe in using the resources from the forest. i live in a house constructed from wood. some folks are truly conservation minded, they might live in recycled material houses. great. but the recycled material still reqiured some resource.
i believe in petroleum products because i burn fuel when i drive my car.
anyone who does not believe in those things but continues to use the resource is fooling themselves.
i may not agree with how we get all those products, but that is a separate matter. mining, lumber, gas - it can all be gained in a way that maximizes the environment. but are we prepared for the cost? it is a vicious circle.
so i am not sure what your concept of conservatism is.
have you ever made a passive protection placement that was only possible because someone had nailed there previously? then your diatribe of nailing seems subjective, does it not?
if not, then who decides? must we climb by your standards in order to avoid your ridicule?
truly hoping you have a good day. good times to all.
hawk
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 09:08pm PT
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Hawkeye, your critical thinking skills seem to be lacking. Most of these questions are relative obviously. Mines are ugly, clearcuts are ugly, piton scars are ugly, etc. In the realm of climbing, such ugliness detracts from everyone's experience, therefore, in logging, in mining, in climbing, every effort should be made to minimize the damage while we meet our needs. Don't you agree? If not, would you like your favorite climbing area turned into a gravel pit?
Would you like to see everybody using pitons and making climbing routes as ugly as possible? Clean aid climbing is merely an attempt to stop the damage now for everyone's benefit. Decades ago, considerable peer pressure was brought to bear in the free climbing arena in order to completely stop rock scarring due to pro. Climbers generally realize that their specific indiosyncratic needs do not eclipse the needs of the climbing community. What is required is a little clarity of intent and committment to principle, both of which seem lacking in your opinion.
This is not a holier than thou attitude. You on the other hand, if such issues don't matter to you, and you like the nice warm feeling of a full diaper, once your Nihilistic crap has been taken, well good for you. These are ideas being discussed.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 09:13pm PT
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Aw come on Mimi, you know you love that sweet sound of a pin when it rings. hehehe
Edit; looks like we're going to have a carry out on the four mile trail, get your ass over here, Mimi.
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 09:19pm PT
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Yes, I used to love that sound. Unfortunately, I can no longer answer.
The sound of a baby angle greets me every morning when my alarm goes off and my grandfather clock features the sound of 4-inch bongs clanking meerily on the hour.
You and BASE have outed me as a closet banger. Thanks a lot. Now I'll have to go back to the sound of No. 11 hexes on the hour, which I like much less.
Edit: Wish I was there to give you a hand. Hope you finish before dark.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 10, 2006 - 09:36pm PT
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hahaha,
perhaps in a few years, i may need those diapers you refer too.
mimi,
it is funny that you choose not to answer the questions.
i do agree with much of what you say, with regards to "doing" our best.
life is full of compromise.
aparently (if i may be presumptuous) ammon chose to place a pin, instead of retreating. i was not there, it was not my decision. i cannot presume to know that was right or wrong.
i remember in about 1980, i failed on a 5.10 route where the crux was at a bolt (one of those slab climbs where the crux was well protected). I did the only logical thing to me, i bailed. pulling through on aid did not occur to me.
i watched mortified as a another climber pulled (on the bolt) thru the crux and kept climbing. what was he doing? how could he not know that the true honor was in failing and waiting until he was up to the challenge? i was pissed and yelled at him a remark that i was later sorry for.
in this case, the climber did not hurt the rock as you (i think) assert that ammon did by placing a pin. i simply wonder who made you judge and jury? what benefit are you striving for?
to preserve the rock is a noble cause, i grant you that. but each of us who have slotted a nut into a pin scar have used the benefits of a piton. who are we to decry their use when we have gained. sandstone is especially difficult since the route can and does change over time.
i will agree with you that the idea of trying to preserve the rock seems lessened these days. ticking the route seems to be the modus operandi, fewer people try and attain a method that (to me) seems more spiritual, and lessen their impact.
who are you to judge others? are you so knowledgeable as to know how ammon (or any name for that matter) should have climbed?
i cannot find fault with your ideals, only with the presumption that you know best.
a nice evening is here, i hope you all are sensing that as well.
edit:
werner, good luck in your carry
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 09:52pm PT
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Still sitting in the middle of that rapidly cooling quandry, eh? The route had been done clean by others before Ammon and other parties came along and found it necessary to pound. That the climb had gone clean is enough to warrant the query. The clarity of old school low impact thinking is not hard to follow. We all learn from our mistakes and peer pressure provides the impetus for self-improvement. Of course, we all make mistakes.
From the tone of your posting, you clearly have found yourself judging others and are conflicted about it.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Sep 10, 2006 - 10:17pm PT
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Oh fer fook's sake...
If it turns your crank to play ethics police, how about starting with people who don't hike their poo off the Captain and who have done way worse than put in one pin on one obscure sandstone A3 pitch that went clean once (and then freely admit to it as well as letting their partner post a TR and a topo documenting the fact)? You're pulling over people for doing 48 in a 45 while guys are blowing by doing 70 with a 40 in the cupholder and two more already in the tank.
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 10:26pm PT
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If it was up to me, I'd love to ticket all the punk ass fools out there. Hahaha!
I guess you missed the WOS posts which are a bit grander than a one-pin peeve. The attitudes and rationalizations that some climbers drum up to support their activities is really pretty interesting. Don't ya think or do you?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 10, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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i am not in a quandry, i made a mistake about judging people mimi.
about wos,
healyje asked a fair question. should anyone climb it? is that section of rock off limits?
i have no quandaries of my own ethics. i screw up sometimes.
i have rapp bolted, how bad can it be? LOL
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 10, 2006 - 10:45pm PT
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Hawk, I think I started this snit with you over on the dirt thread. I was taking up for him. I sent his mom peony seeds from the yard afterall.
Of course someone can try to climb that section of wall. Don't be ridiculous! The fact that those greenhorns and half a ton of crap made it up in more than a month is what is laughable and interesting about that route. Clearly, despite the best efforts of the locals to desuade them, using every orifice, nothing stopped the dynamic duo from carrying out their sinister plan.
Tommy Herbert used to joke about bolting a line of modular holds all the way up El Cap with some small measure of seriousness. The creative freedom that we give each other is a wonderful thing but it also carries responsibilty.
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blake
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2006 - 02:56am PT
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well, i don't know how many people are reading this far anymore (as usual, i'm amazed at the turns a thread can take), but thanks to all who have offered advice and especially those who have offered ropes. what a great community! i think we are all set for ropes, and we even have something of a plan (climb to sickle, rap to the ground, haul everything to sickle, hopefully fix the next bit to get a head start on the (for us) longish day to el cap tower.)
blake
oh, and i will post a TR, promise!
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Sep 11, 2006 - 06:50am PT
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Haa haa, yeah Blake... the taco is a crazy place, huh? Have fun on The Nose, hope to see you out there. I'm in LA on a rigging job but plan on heading that way soon.
Mimi, the route went clean ONE time. Mad props to the guys who did it. AGAIN, I'm not sure what they used for ONE placement. It could have been a cam hook, I don't know. That's the only piece of gear that would make since to me.
I do not use cam hooks on sandstone because it will eventually blow out the rock.
Your focusing on this like I vandalized a route that has gone clean for years. Like Landgolier said, it's pretty obscure.
Anyway, one of the parties I've talked to since the clean ascent said they placed 8-10 pitons.
I just hope that placement doesn't get blown out by cam hooks by people trying to make a clean ascent.
Ron O had the foresight back in the day for constructive cleaning, if you have to nail.
Mimi,
Check out this link: http://www.bigwall.com/cosmictr.html
Note: Standard Nailing Rack
Like I said, go up there and report back if you could get a clean piece of gear to stick. Damn, I think I only hit the thing twice. Too funny, long day at work, night jobs suck. Cheers, ST folks. OOooaahhhh!!!
Edit: If anyone is curious of where the "damage", haa haa, was done. It's at the corner of the roof, at the top of the 7th pitch.
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