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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 2, 2014 - 07:27pm PT
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mom wants me to take her sailing before she shuffles off. so can I pick this up over a couple weekends? I know knots and shtt. Know how to read a map and even navigate by stars.
I searched the (horribly crappy) Taco search engine and didn't see anything germane. If a similar topic has been addressed in any fashion, please refer me and I'll delete this one. Basically, I want to do my due diligence and tell mom either, "yeah, I got this", or "No, not gonna happen."
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Interesting transition.
One of my best climbing buddies has been climbing for decades and is a great all-arounder...he also loves to sail, and has done competitive sailing events b/w the Bay area & Hawaii with admirable standings.
It's intriguing, and the technical knowledge & ability required in sailing looks to be way more involved than climbing.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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largely different worlds
intersect in 3 ways
The Weather Rools: don't be afraid to stay in dock.
You're On Your Own out there: proper safety equipment is essential. Flight plan "filed" with friends, etc.
Shi* happens.......be ready for it.
Sailing is technical, often contemplative, experimental. Fun to share with friends and yer Mum.
You can be incapable of walking up 2 flights of stairs and still be a good sailor.
You can hold a beer in one hand while you Master the ship with the other.
Any observant person can learn the basics of sailing a small boat from a good teacher.
one more intersection with climbing: you won't get good at it in a weekend.
EDIT: no wind and you get to relax for a while until it picks up again. Or start up the Iron Wind or get out the Paddle.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Remember the Captain is always right. Misinformed perhaps, sloppy, crude,
bull headed, fickle, even stupid, but never wrong.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Know how to read a map and even navigate by stars. Presumably you'll have achieved technical competence in sailing the boat long before you need a chart (map) or celestial navigation.
;-)
Learn on a small boat. You'll learn more quickly, you'll learn more, and you'll have fun learning.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Beware of the Club, Yacht Club, Racing Association etc:
Troublesome seasonal accumulation in costal areas of unpleasant marine
organisms with stiff necks and clammy extremities. Often present in large
numbers during summer months when they clog inlets, bays, and coves, making
navigation almost impossible. The infestations are most serious along the
coasts of Conneticut, Massachusetts, and Maine. They can be effectively
dislodged with dynamite, but, alas, archaic federal laws rule out this
option.
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ryanb
climber
Hamilton, MT
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It sounds like your thinking of a big boat?
Get a boat with a reliable engine. Motor out, put up the mainsail for a bit and let it luff, motor back. Easy and what many people seem to do.
I grew up sailing including racing some small dinghies. It isn't that hard but managing a bigger boat with more then one sail by yourself would up the challenge. On the other hand convincing someone with a boat to let you and your mom crew would be a good way to get the taste...as a kid our neighbor would take his son and I out and have us manage the jib (the sail in the front).
Docking under sail is not recommended for beginners.
Small dinghies in lakes and bays and such are great for learning but lots of modern models are also quite easy to capsize depending on how much sail they have etc. A bigger boat for a keel is much much harder to capsize but you won't make as many turns and thus not learn as fast.
Don't let the boom hit your head. Go somewhere inland and deep without too many rocks like puget sound.
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couchmaster
climber
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I use to sail. I think that there might be a few things you'd want to consider. If you just want to take your mom out to make her happy, simply charter a boat (rent a boat and crew). It will cost a lot but be much cheaper that any other route. I haven't done that myself, but would certainly entertain the idea. Going to the Bahamas for instance, if you want to be "on vacation" and relaxing why worry about learning all the electronics and worrying over shallow shoals if you can just let some other dudes knowledgeable in that boats electronics and the area do all that?
If you want to learn to sail yourself, then take a class. Lots of them are offered by many places. Let google start you on that path. Boats are available to rent no crew (barebones they call it). It's not rocket science, but there are myriad complexities and if you screw up, you might kill your mom, so don't think it's a lark. Take it serious and study hard. Lots of places offer classes.
Good luck and have fun.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Would you do a big climb with someone who's experience was a couple weekends if you had no experience?
Don't ask Mom to.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I think the message is starting to come through, but to reply specifically to your implicit question, being a climber will confer almost no advantages in learning to sail. It's nice to be able to tie a bowline, but that isn't going to make you into a sailor any more than it makes you into a climber. Sailing is subtle and complex and occurs in a dangerous environment. The one thing climbing might teach you about this is not to take the situation anywhere near as lightly as your inquiry suggests.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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For the true sailboat owning experience. ... step into a cold shower and start ripping up $100 bills.
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Lanthade
climber
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Rgold is exactly right. I've got a good bit of climbing under my belt and every time I've set foot in a sailboat (only a couple times and far apart) I've been useless. Being from the land of 10000 lakes hasn't helped either. Nor has kitesurfing.
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Jeremy B.
climber
Northern California
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Things that fly, float, etc: always cheaper to rent.
Chances are, you won't get someone to rent you a boat unless you can demonstrate you know what you're doing with it, which means time and money. It's possible to put in a handful of full-time weekends to learn the basics, that's not enough to be single-handing a boat. Unless you have friends who regularly sail, I'd charter a boat and let its skipper worry about the sailing.
In terms of skills overlap, sailing is largely about knowing how the wind interacts with the boat and sails, plus a mishmash of side details about tides, currents, radios, charts, pumps, etc. Handling the lines is somewhat incidental to this; on an average day-sail the only knots in play will be those attaching the fenders to the sides of the boat.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Fort is right, period.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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how easy is sailing for a climber to pick up?
I suppose it depends on how close to the shore you can find a climber.
Probably harder than cruising for one!
;>)
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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EXACTLY what Peter and FM said.
I think you need to take up sailing because YOU love it, not to please another. Same as climbing. They are both huge commitments.
Susan
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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In answer to the OP's question, it's probably about as easy as teaching a sailor to climb. Using just gear, of course. Ain't no clip-ups out on the big wide murky.
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matisse
climber
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Cheese Louise you guys.
I'm going to disagree somewhat.
To sail really well under difficult conditions in the open ocean in 30 knots plus of wind in big swells with frigid water etc etc is obviously difficult.
To hack around in a stable two person dinghy in a small lake with 3-4 knots of wind where you are 400 yards offshore in perfect weather isn't brain surgery. It is all about picking your boat, your body of water and your weather conditions.
I am sure there are multiple courses in your area through the American Sailing Association.
p.s. yer gunna die.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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say you were a sailor and your mom told you that rock climbing was something she wanted to do before her demise...
do you think the sailor would say, "sure Mom, I've got this!" and be even close? (with all due respect for guido and ferretlegger... two among other climber/sailors).
I sailed a bit while procrastinating writing my thesis... I would have definitely taken all my sailing buddies with me had I arranged a trip to satisfy my mom's request...
where would you be doing this sailing?
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matisse
climber
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yabut
you could take her climbing multipitch insanely hard ++ in the remote backcountry or you could take her toproping 5.6 in the gym.
one of these doesn't take a lifetime to learn.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Unlike climbing sailing is actually a lot easier than it looks. I learned to sail a sunfish when I was 10 years old, I remember it being very easy. When I was 25 I went to Catalina with some friends on a Ericson 34, my first trip on a real sailboat. By the time we got to Avalon I swear at least two of us were better sailors than the guy who rented the boat and was in charge. He ended up fouling the prop on a mooring line at Avalon, luckily we had dive gear and were able to clear it without getting nailed for damages. That is the sort of detail part of sailing where people get in trouble. It is like flying a plane. The actual flying part is easy, it is the takeoff and landing that will get you in trouble.
I find maneuvering a sailboat in close quarters with a stiff breeze to be the most challenging part of sailing. It can only be learned by actual hands on experience. For open water sailing you can prepare yourself by doing a lot of reading. Like climbing, sailing requires that you remain level headed and you must be able to deal with difficult situations as they may arise.
If you are going to do it just to experience it join a club and rent.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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I'd recommend this book
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Among other things, I'm an American Sailing Association instructor, and one of the senior instructors in our sailing club, which has one of the largest rosters of professional instructors in the country, of which I used to be the Sailing School Director. I was also Commodore.
We're located in Los Angeles, which doesn't help you in Min.
I do not think that you can accomplish what you want to do, safely. A small boat (dinghy) is not the place for an elderly novice. Would likely be a terrifying experience.
Our club would very occasionally get a request like yours, to go out for a day, and I'm aware of this happening several times, gratis. There's always someone willing to help someone out.
But I'd go out in one of the 28-40 foot boats. Far more comfortable, particularly if the wind kicks up and there are significant waves.
Personally, I find lake sailing more challenging than the ocean, where I usually go, due to the wind shifts.
If you pay to do this with a charter captain, make sure that the captain is a US Coast Guard licensed Captain. It is otherwise illegal to accept money for such a charter situation.
You want to come out to LA, I'll take you guys out myself. Probably be cheaper.
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mcolombo
Trad climber
Heidelberg, Germany
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Not that it really has anything to do with the question but for me climbing and sailing are the only two things that I did once and was forever hooked.
An office mate of my dad took me on his Hobie 16 when I was 11 and I have sailed since then.
I friend who I met sailing the Finn Olympic Trials in 92 at Alamitos Bay took me up the North Buttres route on Tahquitz and I have climbed since then.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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If your plan is to float around a lake on a sunny day with little wind, then you could probably do it yourself, but have a cell phone and the number of someone who can tow you back, if needed. If you want to go out on a larger body of water for long enough so that the weather might change, then you can't learn what you need to know in only a few weekends. I agree that a charter would be the way to go for that sort of thing.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Rent "Captain Ron," cook up a batch of buttered popcorn and enjoy your adventure with Mom.
I go along with Fort, Captain Haan and Susan-plenty of available charter boats out there with reliable and fun captains. If you know the area you wish to go sailing perhaps some of us on ST can direct you to a reliable person. I can help with Fr Polynesia, Fiji and NZ. Sounds like a fun adventure to me.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I sail. I kayak.
Rent a kayak.
Or rent a boat with a skipper.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I'm with matisse, it depends on what "take her sailing" means.
I learned to "sail" using that term loosely to only mean the basics of how to go in the general direction of where you want to go, at a club med. The guy sending out the boats gave us 5 minutes of instructions in broken English and we took a small catamaran out in the ocean. I took us about 15 minutes to figure out how it worked. Then another 30 minutes or so of trying it out and getting back to shore against an offshore breeze. I often thought there must be plenty of people that don't get it and must be rescued with that type of limited instruction. Those first 15 minutes were like "wait, what did he say?, hmm this doesn't seem right, uh-oh we're getting farther from shore" until it started clicking. Still it was really fun and the lack of instruction and uncertainty added to the thrill!
I guess I'd agree that with an older woman, I'd take her sailing on a charter first and see how it goes. That may be what she wants.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Some where there is a great story of a Y.valley/ Alaska climber from Pennsylvania who took up sailing and was then the subject of the farthest off shore rescue ever preformed at that time.
The climber in him gave him the crossed sight to not see the dangers, till they were full bore.
I'm always amazed that climbers who have soloed, and climbed rope less, get in to deep in other pursuits.
I have not read any of the opening posts.
Sailing is a dance with the elements & a living thing; the Sea.
If you respect the medium and Not bite off more than you can chew, to go off & sail can be amazingly satisfying.
Get 'er done and hit the Caribbean. . . I am so jello I'm all a wobble. . .ho wait, that's just remembering the sea-sickness...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The big difference between sailing and climbing is sailing gives you a lot more second chances. There is no sailing equivalent to rapping off the end of your rope.
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Alpinista55
Mountain climber
Portland, OR
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I've transitioned from alpine climbing and expeditioning to blue-water sailing. There are many similarities between the two activities. Both are about travelling through a hostile environment using technology and learned skills to do so safely and with a bit of comfort, while occasionally scaring the sh#t out of yourself.
Sailing is much more expensive than climbing. My 37 foot sloop, the Betty Lou, is a 36 year old, well maintained boat. I paid $70k for her 7 years ago, and it takes about $10k per year to keep her in bristol condition. The slip to park her in added another $20k. To replace her with a brand new boat of the same size would cost well over $300k.
Sailing offshore also requires a few more skill sets than climbing. On Betty Lou, I am a diesel mechanic, electrician, plumber, electronics installer, rigger, navigator, radio operator, weatherman, shipwright, and finally, a sailor. I've completely rewired her, replaced the portholes and hatches, added a furnace, refurbished the brightwork, re-regged the standing rigging, and the work never ends. This spring she comes out of the water for bottom paint, new thru-hulls and a cutlass bearing.
Next year Betty Lou and I are off to BC and SE Alaska, to support some young climbers doing tidewater approaches to the Mt. Waddington group and Mt. Logan.
Best advice; do a captained charter in a nice setting (like the British Virgin Islands). $3k - 4k will get you a week on a really nice monohull sailing yacht that sleeps 6. The captain will do the thinking, and you and your mom can do the learning. Typically, on a trip like this in the BVI, you'll sail for 3 - 4 hours in the morning and by early afternoon you're anchored in a beautiful bay enjoying a Pina Colada and a swim.
Here is a good charter company to get you started: http://www.moorings.com
Later
Capt. Jay
Video featuring Betty Lou:
https://youtu.be/qtt117ANVwA
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sailing in Alaska? Pffft! Piss easy!
Well, piss easy to keep the wine cold:
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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The big difference between sailing and climbing is sailing gives you a lot more second chances. There is no sailing equivalent to rapping off the end of your rope.
Really? I take you've only day sailed...no lengthy off shore passages?
Race starts can be sketchy (we're in the black boat s/v Mouton Noir)
Headed out the Gate where in a few short days there will be no rescue to speak of. Mechanic, medic, navigator, cook, and entertainer all on your own. When things go bump in the night...it's usually not good.
Susan
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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go onto sailing anarchy and ask if there is anyone in the great lakes that would take you and your mother out for a daysail on a NICE ( not f-in nuking) day. If you get to SF, I'd take you out, I live aboard my 37'er, and we've been to HI, MX and back.
Susan, Rich and Mary are good AND sane. Any other J105 might have nailed you just because they had right of way. ;-)
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