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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 1, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
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For those of you who have been wondering where all of my historical work and posting over the last few years is leading, I am proud to announce that I filed last week for nonprofit status for the North American Climbing History Archives (NACHA).
The NACHA mission is: To gather, document and celebrate climbing history in image, word and artifact with special emphasis on personalities and events in North America and fostering climbing culture.
We have big plans beyond the Festivals that have been the main NACHA activity besides posting here on the ST. If you are interested in finding out more about where NACHA is going and would like to support our work please contact me. The road ahead is exciting and daunting at the same time and it will take a committed team effort to bring our fantastic legacy into the realm of easy and relevant modern access.
Come and join us!
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ruppell
climber
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This sounds pretty cool. Maybe post a link to a donation page?
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Ranger Doug
Social climber
Kupreanof, AK
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I've just registered the website www.blogbeckey.com where climbers can post their climbs with Fred Beckey. I climbed with Fred for about 5 years and hosted him many times in my home for slideshows, etc. I've encouraged Fred to write his biography but he won't so let's write it for him. I've posted a few test-posts and one climb which will eventually build a continuous timeline. Send comments/feedback with the contact button and we'll make this easy and fun. On belay!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Can I get extra guacamole with my NACHAs?
More seriously, I might just be able to give you something for your project when you're over here tonight.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
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Make sure to start a dedicated Fred thread.
Fortunately, Fred has done an uncommonly good job of documenting his activities.
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ruppell
climber
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Fortunately, Fred has done an uncommonly good job of documenting his activities.
Like leaving a Beckey route that's 5.9 A2 on almost every major alpine formation in North America? Dude's legend.
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Steve:
This is great news. Let me know (PM) if there is anything I can do to help.
Phil
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Sorry but Fred's routes are usually 5.7 A2
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MisterE
climber
Bishop, CA
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Great news Steve - glad all the hard work is coming together!
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Sounds great! Keep us updated, with links/information, please.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sorry but Fred's routes are usually 5.7 A2
ha ha ha!
Yeah, and Grossman's are usually 5.11+ X!
Good work, Steve!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Congratulations!
I'll have a few things to contribute.
I finally found Frank's climbing gear when I moved.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Good Job Steve!
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BBA
climber
OF
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Nice initiative. I hope the books you got from me can be made available digitally.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Great news and congrats for all your work on this. I am looking forward to more on the subject.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Good work Steve.
Something to get behind.
Are we talking the dawn of technical climbing through modern efforts?
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MisterE
climber
Bishop, CA
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^^The major effort has been to archive the Golden Age and earlier if possible, for obvious reasons.
The video archives are going to be epic.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Is there a legal statute of limitations so that anything we provide you cannot be used against us in a court of law? lol, old boy!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
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mucci- It's the roots to the radness with everything in between.
guido- You've already fully cooperated and testified so you got immunity from persecution but never from harassment!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Very cool Steve! Know you've been working hard on this for quite a while. Good to see its becoming a reality. Let me know if I can help.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Thanks Steve! Looking forward to see how this turns out.
Is it going to be all online or are you going to make it a touring show?
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Steve - congratulations!! That is awesome news. Thank you for doing what you do.
Looking forward to collaborating with your Nonprofit! Let us know what needs to be done.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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That's a great project and a huge one, Steve! Hope you get all the support you need.
How will it relate to YCA.?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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This is a big deal and very important to many of us.
Big thanks to you Steve for rolling this out!
*Extra credit goes to Mimi for standing by her man throughout this startup!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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nice, looking forward
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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I will be needing my own, dedicated exhibit, Steve. And I've saved those nose hair clippings like you asked.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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In spanish, nachas is common slang for butt cheeks.
The word nacha specifically refers to one butt cheek.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
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Esta NACHA es mia, sin duda, BIOTCHITO! LOL
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Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
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The NACHA mission is: To gather, document and celebrate climbing history in image, word and artifact with special emphasis on personalities and events in North America and fostering climbing culture.
So you will no doubt be including the WOS saga.
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Lasti
Trad climber
Budapest
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If I want some primo climbing history content I just search Steve Grossmann as thread topic author on the Taco. 10 out of 10 times it's solid gold. I'm guessing NACHA will also be a huge task and an even greater contribution to the community.
Thank you!
Lasti
p.s. more on Mark Wilford's Eastern European tour of 1983 (?) would be interesting.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 6, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
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Thanks for the Stoke Folks!
I am always catching up so...
BBA- Your Roper red guide to Yosemite and early Tahquitz guide will be among the first to be reproduced and made available in full once I get The Climbing Museum website funded and online. Bill was one of the first to appreciate and materially support my work and also sent along some Sierra Club Bulletins that I have excerpted in threads like the Shiprock history thread.
If all I did was excerpt and make readily available all of the relevant existing published magazine and journal content that would be huge and that is only part of what the Museum will become with some considerable help.
If you have offbeat books, magazines, catalogs, journals and other photo or paper records of historical importance please contact me as I am trying to create a proper and comprehensive archive.
bvb- My people have been collecting your toenails while you are asleep so if you wake up with cold feet, it's just me! LOL
Wayne- Ken and I have been supporting each other from the outset and will continue to do so. The YCA is sponsoring NACHA at events like the Oakdale Festival to allow me to do my work. The YCA is a fantastic gathering point for all things Yosemite and Sierra Nevada climbing history.
My own historical interest is more extensive and so I felt the need to put NACHA in the oven.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Will there be much Canadian content?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Will there be much Canadian content?
While milling around with a bunch of climbers waitng to get down a short descent gully in the Gunks a while back, a young guy approached me and said, in a very New York accent, "Est ke se votree premier fwaw ecee?" (He'd heard me speaking French with the Quebec climbers I was there with, so points to him for trying to make a foreigner feel welcome.)
I told him I could speak English, and that yes, this was my first time there. He thought about this for a bit, and then said, "So, are there any mountains in Canada?"
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Ghost's comment reminds me of something that happened to me a long, long time ago. A carload of us descended on a pub in Sultan, WA, on our way to Leavenworth during the (Canadian) November long weekend. The very nice but not-too-smart barmaid asked where we were from; we said Vancouver, Canada. She wanted to know how deep the snow was in Vancouver (about the same as in Sultan: zero) and if we had the dog-sleds ready for winter.
One of the girls in our party was using borrowed I.D. The barmaid asked her to spell her middle name; Joy had no idea what it was. But she was very pleasant about it, and the beer soon arrived for everyone. I guess she figured that wen and if the cops arrived, Joy would be able to spell it by then.
We met nothing but friendly and helpful people on those trips.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2014 - 09:19am PT
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So much superb climbing and rich history in Canada and Mexico that casting a broad net with NACHA didn't take much deliberation. The history is too meshed to even consider trying to compartmentalize it.
By creating NACHA my hope is that, with a bit of encouragement, interested and knowledgeable folks will take the time to record what they know if the result has a definite home with purpose and reach. We get a taste of that kind of historical disclosure and sharing on this forum which is why I have invested so much time and energy here and will continue to do so.
The ST is the finest climbers forum that I have found so far when folks stay on the topic of climbing. So many accomplished and indelible characters spend time here despite the background noise.
Lasti- I will get Wilford to write down his recollections from his amazing tour during the 80s. We spent some time chatting about that trip over beer in Boulder recently so I really need to catch up with him for an interview to capture it. Mark is an amazing resource along with being one hell of a good climber!
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Lasti
Trad climber
Budapest
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Sep 14, 2014 - 03:34am PT
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You are gentleman and a scholar Mr Grossman!
I am looking forward to Wilford's stories.
Lasti
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 21, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
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NACHA leads the way into the past.
Steve Grossman is leading it into the future.
Excitement abounds.
Now if Mr. Clean-X Route can only learn to string sentences into paragraphs...
From the program handed out at OCF II, footnote-free, and a long, long ways from "free writing."
We are behind you, Steve, speaking for myself...
Best of luck and see you at OCF III.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2014 - 07:57am PT
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To my surprise I got a letter from the IRS yesterday confirming 501c3 status for the North American Climbing History Archives (NACHA)!
A very fast turnaround time and clear evidence of a solid application.
So now it's onward into the past and backwards into the future! Yahooooo!
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Nov 12, 2014 - 08:07am PT
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Congratulations!
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Nov 12, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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Steve,
If you need any info regarding Jack (Roberts) or various ascents (N.Face Mt. Huntington; S.W. Face Denali, etc.), let me know. I still have all of his journals and photos. Best to contact me via FB, as I'm only infrequently on ST.
cheers, and best on an amazing project!
Pam Roberts
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Nov 12, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
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Congratulations big time, Steve!
Lasti, so you are still around ST. And apparently climbing......Cheers from Lynne.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Nov 12, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
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Way to go, man -- GO!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Nov 12, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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Esta NACHA es mia, sin duda, BIOTCHITO! LOL Happy that you're stoked.
Always have appreciated your topics and posts.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 12, 2014 - 10:51pm PT
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I don't use guides, partly because I can follow the dots just fine when I'm not on an FA attempt and also because the guides never contain what I'm really interested in knowing about a route. I can figure how hard a line is and what the gear it needs on my own by simply getting on it. What I can't figure out on my own, and can't get from the guides, is the firsthand story of the FA. And those stories, like the stories of WWII vets, are being increasingly lost by the day when we're talking 50's, 60's and 70's routes.
An archive [ / app ] I would care about would allow folks to write up or video the stories of their FAs and submit that to an archive like yours (where you could then cross-reference them with past and present guides). That way, if I did a route, I could then look it up and read or hear the story of the first ascent. Now that's an archive I'd use all the time and it would serve as a living history.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
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I have hundreds of hours of interview footage already recorded for the Elevated Lives Project that will make it into the NACHA website once I get that up and going. Regional histories, personality profiles, technique and gear development will all be made easily available assuming that I get support to allow all of this to happen.
If you climb a classic line then you will be able to find out it online.
If you would like support my historical activities and join in this grand effort then please contact me. With 501c3 status now confirmed I can offer you a tax deduction for any cash contributions and fair value for donated catalogs, books and other relevant gear that you see fit to send to NACHA.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 27, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
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www.blogbeckey.com
This is from page one of this thread, posted by Ranger Doug.
It is a registration page, but is 'out of service.' It is twice listed on Google and both say the same thing.
Happy Thanksgiving and holiday season, Steve and Mimi!
The knife is one of my mom's.
It's a "Heavy Royal." Like the RR Blue Boots, it's very stiff and takes an edge well, just like our guy from Modesto.
The pie was delicious.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
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We are truly blesed to have such a talented and motivated librarian as Steve here at McTopo, and we applaud his work here for NAMBLA.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
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Are we talking the dawn of technical climbing through modern efforts?
He said it was all about Fred, didn't he?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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This is really awesome Steve. Thanks for all the hard work.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Nov 28, 2014 - 01:09am PT
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Nov 27, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
We are truly blesed to have such a talented and motivated librarian as Steve here at McTopo, and we applaud his work here for NAMBLA.
Lol
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Nov 28, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
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we applaud his work here for NAMBLA
What an incredible scope of talent, SG!
Keep compiling . . .
;>)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 29, 2014 - 07:35am PT
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I don't know where else I should post this other than to start a new thread.
Did you know that there is a Bradford Washburn Mountaineering History Museum located in Golden, CO?
It was established in 2008.
http://www.mountaineeringmuseum.org/
It's not strictly NA mountaineering, but who has not been inspired by Washburn's aerial photos, mostly of this continent, so far as I know.
He's the Fred Beckey of the air.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 08:25am PT
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Bradford Washburn Mountaineering History Museum
It's the Mountaineering Museum. Content is all about big snowy mountains, mainly relating to the Himalayas (theres an enormous and impressive scale model of the Everest region) and some exhibits relating specifically to the history of mountaineering and the CMC (Colorado Mountaineering Club) in Colorado. It's top of the line quality and content in the areas it specializes in.
What's missing is the rock climbing. Yosemite gets little mention. Harvey Carter is utterly ignored and even Layton Kor barely gets a mention (and this in Colorado!). There's a sort of cabinet with a few random bits of rock climbing equipment from the last few decades but no labels, no attempt to organize. I suspect they would love to expand but don't really have space in their building.
What Steve Grossman is doing relates to rock climbing history. No crevasses in sight.
There's been nothing like this in the US, working to record our local rock climbing-based history. Any museum is limited by space and location. Online, there's unlimited room for archiving interviews and photos and stories. Happy that someone is going to the effort to start this.
In the UK a Maxine Willet is spearheading a similar effort and has built the Mountain Heritage Trust:
http://www.mountain-heritage.org
A lot of cool content there. There's on or two other fascinating websites that specialize in aspects of climbing history, mostly the equipment, within and around the US:
http://verticalarchaeology.com/blog/
http://www.needlesports.com/NeedleSports/nutsmuseum/nutsmuseum.htm
The NACHA concept is more ambitious in scale, collecting extensive interviews with many leading climbers.
Good luck to Steve and his efforts.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
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What Steve Grossman is doing relates to rock climbing history. No crevasses in sight.
Oh. Thank you for clearing that up, as it's not clear from the acronym. So, really, it should be called NARCHA. That would also have the advantage of not signifying something best served with cheese and salsa.
Of course, that's nit-picky... but, then, so is historical research, done correctly. We're to be forgiven for questioning Steve's "objectivity" regarding everything from, well, truth to, well, uhh... truth.
Example: fast turn-around as "evidence of a solid application." Yeah, or more probably evidence of about 1000 other things having exactly zero to do with a 'solid application,' such as: Nobody at the IRS cares about this sort of thing because it has nothing to do with religion or politics; the IRS is presently an embattled organization that just has no time or staffing for insignificant 'organizations' like NACHA; and the IRS is one of the worst organizations in human history regarding weighing 'evidence' on any subject. The list goes on. LOL
Bias is a biotch, particularly when you wear it on your chest in all of your "historical" endeavors. Best to stick to "archival" and "librarian" work than to pretend this is "historical" in any sense that matters. That way, at least the contents (and/or lack thereof) won't have anybody believing that Steve's "take" on "history" is anything other than, well, HIS narrow-minded, self-serving take.
This will not be "history." This will be "The Library of Steve." Any actual history that makes it in will be an unintended side-effect rather than what would be expected by design, as Steve seems astoundingly unqualified for this role.
I've asked, flat-out, and gotten no answer: Steve, exactly what formal training do you have in history? What are your degrees? Post-doc fellowships? ANYTHING at all? Do you have ANY training in how a historian actually conducts interviews for archival and research purposes? Or is this just "willing and interested construction worker" turned "professional historian" because he's added a NARCHA after his name?
Who is on the Board of Directors of NACHA, NARCHA, whatever? Who is Chairman? You want funding? Then how about providing some actual organizational information and making pubic the details of what this organization actually is?
But, at least he IS willing (for the price of tax-deductible 'support')....
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Nov 29, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
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There's been nothing like this in the US, working to record our local rock climbing-based history
Ament did a pretty good job in his overview Wizards of Rock.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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There's been nothing like this in the US, working to record our local rock climbing-based history
Ament did a pretty good job in his overview Wizards of Rock.
Pat did an excellent job. I have a copy of Wizards of Rock. It's one of the best of the historical climbing overview books. As far as I can tell from personal knowledge and from feedback from others, the information it contains is highly accurate and delves deep.
But, we're slowly losing the climbers from the 60s. In three or four decades, any would-be historians of that era will only have second or third-hand material to work with. I'm happy someone is taking on the task of interviewing these folks while they are around.
Books are limited by their scope, print run and by publication date. Museums (and yes, the AAC Mountaineering Museum is a fantastic resource) are expensive and almost invariably only show a small selection of the holdings they have. An online archive can, if done well, overcome both these limitations. We'll see how it all pans out.
On a side note, I'm reading the cobbled-together biography of Pete Livesey, the groundbreaking climber of the UK in the 1970s. He traveled the world, once even wrote a climbing guidebook for Yosemite. He eventually retired from climbing, had oodles of time to reflect over his amazing career; but died real suddenly of cancer a decade ago. he was a fantastic writer, wry, astute, funny. In the biography his own essays stand out, even today. Really sad is when he was on his deathbed, he was asked, "Did you write it all down?" and he replied, "No, and now it's too late..."
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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What Steve Grossman is doing relates to rock climbing history. No crevasses in sight.
Oh. Thank you for clearing that up, as it's not clear from the acronym. So, really, it should be called NARCHA. That would also have the advantage of not signifying something best served with cheese and salsa.
Of course, that's nit-picky... but, then, so is historical research, done correctly. We're to be forgiven for questioning Steve's "objectivity" regarding everything from, well, truth to, well, uhh... truth.
Example: fast turn-around as "evidence of a solid application." Yeah, or more probably evidence of about 1000 other things having exactly zero to do with a 'solid application,' such as: Nobody at the IRS cares about this sort of thing because it has nothing to do with religion or politics; the IRS is presently an embattled organization that just has no time or staffing for insignificant 'organizations' like NACHA; and the IRS is one of the worst organizations in human history regarding weighing 'evidence' on any subject. The list goes on. LOL
Bias is a biotch, particularly when you wear it on your chest in all of your "historical" endeavors. Best to stick to "archival" and "librarian" work than to pretend this is "historical" in any sense that matters. That way, at least the contents (and/or lack thereof) won't have anybody believing that Steve's "take" on "history" is anything other than, well, HIS narrow-minded, self-serving take.
This will not be "history." This will be "The Library of Steve." Any actual history that makes it in will be an unintended side-effect rather than what would be expected by design, as Steve seems astoundingly unqualified for this role.
I've asked, flat-out, and gotten no answer: Steve, exactly what formal training do you have in history? What are your degrees? Post-doc fellowships? ANYTHING at all? Do you have ANY training in how a historian actually conducts interviews for archival and research purposes? Or is this just "willing and interested construction worker" turned "professional historian" because he's added a NARCHA after his name?
Who is on the Board of Directors of NACHA, NARCHA, whatever? Who is Chairman? You want funding? Then how about providing some actual organizational information and making pubic the details of what this organization actually is?
But, at least he IS willing (for the price of tax-deductible 'support')....
Dude, WTF. Are you even a member of the Access Fund?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
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Dude, WTF. Are you even a member of the Access Fund?
If the Access Fund were the organization doing this, I wouldn't be posting on this thread. If so, we don't need NARCHA. If not, then your question is irrelevant.
I'm still waiting on answers regarding qualifications and organizational structure. Simple questions. Relevant questions.
The ACTUAL history matters. Evidence matters. Truth matters.
I've asked straightforward and relevant questions. We deserve answers. Especially since Steve himself has made so much about "qualifications" and "credibility" as the basis for respect in a given endeavor. Surely, then, he himself understands the weight of what he's set himself up as here: "Historian!"
Librarian or Archivist is a lower bar to clear. Perhaps Steve can tell us about his qualifications for even that sort of role. A resume' perhaps?
Edit: Actually, Nah000 and RyanD have already done an amazing compilation job (for free and without any need of tax deductible status!) on this very site. This is the sort of grass-roots, organic effort that has a lot more value and credibility than ANY pile of chips built to glorify particular individuals. Their efforts already are worthy of applause!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 29, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
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From Miss Dawn Wall Pardo's gossip page.From Grossman's Wally Reed thread
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=616439&tn=20
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 21, 2008 - 11:55pm PT
Steve, you just keep getting the great stuff out here
for us.
Thanks, BIG TIME!
EDIT
Are you a historian by trade, or only dabbling in it?
Just curious--but keep doing it, either way!
You can't please everyone, obviously, even though there are some telling points brought up.
Keep on keepin' us informed about the past, Steve.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
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To clarify Crusher's remarks about the scope of NACHA, in structuring this organization my intent is to cast a very broad net including all aspects of climbing including ski mountaineering. NACHA is a clearing house for any and all climbing history and offers a home to the impressive amount of historical material that a lot of folks have amassed over the decades.
Big mountain expeditions and climbers have been very well documented so the real work as Crusher noted is in documenting the many unaffiliated rock climbers whose stories aren't well known. I am primarily a rock climber and consequently much of my historical interest is centered on that aspect of mountaineering as I research and interview climbers of record for the Elevated Lives Project which started with Tom Frost in 2007.
We mountaineering historians are a rare breed and if you survey the people that have written consequential historical material over the last fifty or sixty years such as Roper, Steck, Jones, Ament, Rowell, Scott, Wilson, Perrine and Messner virtually none of us have academic standing or formal training as historians. What we do have in common is a passion for the material, ability to interview, research and write well, solid character and deep accomplishment which allows us to write about the outstanding events and participants in the history of grand alpinism from the inside of the experience.
Richard Jensen- All of your insistent squawking about credentials amounts to no more than that.
I have had a good career as a general contractor serving as the board chairman of the Climbing Wall Industry Group (CWIG) while it existed and ASTM Committee F08 writing the engineering specification that insures that artificial climbing walls are properly designed and built. Historical work is what I am good at and what I need to be doing as I have been for several years now.
If unlike Richard Jensen you would like to support NACHA and join me in preserving and making readily available our amazing and grand historical legacy please contact me and let's work together and make this happen.
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