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| Messages 1 - 29 of total 29 in this topic |
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 09:39am PT
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Kind of a joke but if it would get it out of the hands of the USFS then it
might be a good thing if it means somebody might actually clean some of the
crappers once in a while. But I doubt it.
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 09:57am PT
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Having grown up in them there hills, I want the best for those mountains. We had lots of adventures there (just ask Keith Leaman).
One hour drive for 10 million people? Heaven help them hills!
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Barbarian
climber
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Aug 27, 2014 - 10:06am PT
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Would the new masters manage to keep the place open? USFS has always had one excuse or another to close areas and cut services. Somehow I can't see that changing underfunded government would result in improved access or services.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 27, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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Unfortunately, the USFS would still be the agency.
This is what happened with the Giant Sequoia National Monument and the Sequoia National Forest. The Forest got no extra money to run the monument.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 10:11am PT
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It could still remain a national monument but be administered by the Forest Service, just like the Giant Sequoia N.M., where the Needles are.
One problem with the NPS running the place is likely more restrictive use: no hunting (no problem there for me), but possibly no mt. biking or other quasi-commerical activity like some of the ultras they have occasionally. Not really sure what's to gain from it becoming part of the park service other than possible more infrastructure and pavement to help the visitors "enjoy" the place better, just like Josh.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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I want to continue bringing my dog there...for F's sake there isn't much special there to make it 'almost' an NP.
Stop the nonsense.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 27, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
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This is all about an idiot politard (Judy Chu) wanting a legacy.
it's about the dumbest waste of resources I've ever heard of!
Then there's the water issue.
1/3 of the SGV water supply comes down that canyon. The entire drainage was developed a little less than a century ago with that and flood control in mind.
Once the feds see a Chartreuse Beaked Tit Pecker behind Morris Dam, there goes your water bill!
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 27, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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If TGT hates it then it must be a great idea.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 27, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
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Well, the additional fees and smokey hats will keep the illegal immigrant riff raff out of the forest and could solve the littering problem.
No more dirty diapers and Tecate cans in the river and smokeys chasing the homeless trolls out from their camps under the bridges would be an improvement.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Aug 27, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
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"This is all about an idiot politard (Judy Chu) wanting a legacy."
That is the same as I heard directly from an ANF official.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
out in front
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Aug 27, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
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LAs saving grace, its only sh*t within a half mile of the parking. Away from the minivans its awesome to have so close to downtown. My desk view used to look towards them, used to love seeing the snow in winter
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 27, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
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"This is all about an idiot politard (Judy Chu) wanting a legacy."
That is the same as I heard directly from an ANF official.
I guess that explains why Republican Buck McKeon has also been interested in this proposal. McKeon introduced bills creating two new wilderness areas in the San Gabriels before.
I've been hearing rumblings about this for years. I think the Times and KTLA has this wrong. The bill is to create a National Recreation Area, not a monument.
https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/4858/text
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aug 28, 2014 - 07:08am PT
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This is no good.
Congress fails to adequately fund NF
Forest Service fails to spend money it does have intelligently.
Adventure Pass invented to make up short coming (and slow down visitors).
Adventure Pass fails because it's not legal (and just wrong)
Solution: Change to National Monument and charge fee's to enter since it's under the Park Service.
A better solution is to adequately fund the Forest Service.
Finance the division of the Forest Service that promote training and enlightenment of public lands users so they know how to act on public lands. (Yes this would work.)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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Spider, there are no fees to enter the Giant Sequoia NM.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2014 - 07:54am PT
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Chu is trying to end run Congress, (which has stopped this so far) and get Barry to declare it a National Monument.
Totally ridiculous!
That's something that can be done by the executive directly. A National Recreation area, (while still a waste of time and resources is a bit less ridiculous) would require action by Congress.
Both would require funding from Congress to be effective which is highly unlikely anytime soon.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 08:20am PT
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I'll bet that the cost of switching to a Federal Recreation Area would fund
it as it already is for quite a while. Then they will have to change and add
a bunch of new signs and move a bunch of people around and buy a bunch of new
trucks and the crappers will stay filthy, the switchback-cutters will go on
cutting switchbacks, guys with unleashed Pit Bulls will still do so (like we
saw there Sunday, along with many others), the Mexicans will still trash the
place every holiday because to crack down on them would be so insensitive,
and the bureaucrats will still sit on their fat asses in their cushy offices
counting down their weeks to their cushy retirements.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
out in front
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Aug 28, 2014 - 09:46am PT
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Don't be so down on pitbulls Riley.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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If you believe not,
I have a bridge for sale.
It will also impact the SGRT.
What kind of idiot would want to make a National Monument out of a water spreading ground with a rubber dam every couple of miles, LACO San's headquarters and a sewage treatment plant?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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from that LA Times article:
Daniel Rossman, a spokesman for San Gabriel Mountains Forever, said such concerns were unfounded.
“The designation will not infringe on existing rights,” Rossman said. “It will open up new recreational opportunities without sacrificing the natural beauty of the San Gabriel Mountains.”
Sounds like an outright lie.
What new opportunities?
Also a question on the Baldy ski area, which has a permit for a lift down the north side, as they have been showing as proposed expansion for decades now. They have never built it due to lack of funds, lack of snow on chair 4 needed for access, and typical avy danger. You can skin it now all you want anyway. But at times in the past (such as 1998) they ran a bus around to Lytle canyon or a truck down the 4wd road down the north side of the notch. What does the new monument do to options like that?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Typical bureaucratic double-speak. Let's see, the Forest Service made a hash
of it so now the gubmint will turn it over to another bunch of bureaucratic
buffoons to see how big a mess of it they can make. Nothing like job security!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I can't say that I'm in favor of the designation. I still get mad when I see the "preservation" that's happened at Josh since it became a NP. Still, I don't see lots of room for infringement. Examples like this:
Also a question on the Baldy ski area, which has a permit for a lift down the north side, as they have been showing as proposed expansion for decades now. They have never built it due to lack of funds, lack of snow on chair 4 needed for access, and typical avy danger. You can skin it now all you want anyway. But at times in the past (such as 1998) they ran a bus around to Lytle canyon or a truck down the 4wd road down the north side of the notch. What does the new monument do to options like that?
Presuming they get enough snow/interest/money to do this, I don't see events that happen every 26 years (if that much) being something of big concern. I guess I'm in the wait and see camp.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Ken,
...This is what happened with the Giant Sequoia National Monument and the Sequoia National Forest.
What GNSM did is limit logging. Good thing, they were clear-cutting, even next to the Needles trail-head camping, and helicoptering big trees out from the base of Dome Rock. We don't need NPS to police that.
Beyond that GSNM is a great recreational resource; Mt biking, snowmobiling, rock climbing, including open camping-think Needles trail-head, hunting, all activities that NPS would restrict or eliminate. How many dirt roads do you think NPS would gate up and close? 21So5?
Take hunting for example. It grosses me out to see pickup trucks driving around with the shooter in the back hoping to see a deer, but the fact is that these idiots never get a deer anyway, and the practice is illegal. The USFS could use a few bucks to enforce this, so would the NPS. These woods are over-run with deer, only more so in the future. Legitimate hunting is a time honored activity.
Its a sure thing that NPS would institute falcon closures at the Needles despite the fact that such closures are entirely unnecessary, since the falcons (which are thriving there,) live and nest in aeries where climbers never go.
Anyway this change of management is not going to happen. Rep Sam Farr of Santa Cruz has been pushing it for years to satisfy his donors that he is an environmentalist, (he doesn't actually care about the outcome, its all posing,) but the NPS has responded, basically saying "what, are you nuts? We don't have the money to deal with what we are in charge of now, we don't want it."
In all respects GSNM is doing okay under USFS management.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Man. Next, you guys will start complaining about iOS 8.0.2!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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We only complain about things that don't work.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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USFS the "forest circus"
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 10, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
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Obama officially designates San Gabriel Mountains a national monument:
http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-obama-monument-20141011-story.html
Last lines of the article:
"With this designation," she said, "the hard part is over. Now we need to get more signs, trails and rangers up there."
Earlier in the article:
"Right now, campgrounds are crowded, parking lots are tight, and there haven't been enough resources to manage and maintain this area the way it deserves," he said. "So designating the San Gabriel Mountains as a national monument is just the first step toward a broader effort to change that."
Last time I was up there a month or two ago, our car was the only one in the parking lot at Islip Saddle.
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