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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 1, 2014 - 08:29am PT
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News reports indicate that 1 or 2 health workers infected with Ebola will be flown from Africa to the US to be treated at Emory University in Georgia.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/ebola-crisis-prompts-cdc-to-warn-against-nonessential-travel-to-west-africa/2014/07/31/7f132634-18ce-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html
In the grand tradition of Supertopo, I'll render an opinion on a field in which I have zero expertise....
Given that health care workers account for approximately 10% of the 700 deaths in this recent outbreak it seems to me like a colossally bad idea to bring infected patients into contact with US healthcare workers on this continent who will presumably go home to their families at the end of the day. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but at the moment this horrendous disease outbreak is confined to a single continent. A few days from now it will be here on our shores. Is that really a good idea? Do we really want to bring infected US citizens home rather than setting up a field hospital in Africa to treat them?
from CDC
“This is the biggest and most complex Ebola outbreak in history. Far too many lives have been lost already,” said CDC Director Tom Frieden, M.D., M.P.H. “It will take many months, and it won’t be easy, but Ebola can be stopped. We know what needs to be done. CDC is surging our response, sending 50 additional disease control experts to the region in the next 30 days.”
CDC expects its efforts not only to help bring the current outbreak under control, but to leave behind stronger systems to prevent, detect and stop Ebola and other outbreaks before they spread.
In addition to warning travelers to avoid going to the region, CDC is also assisting with active screening and education efforts on the ground in West Africa to prevent sick travelers from getting on planes. On the remote possibility that they do, CDC has protocols in place to protect against further spread of disease. These include notification to CDC of ill passengers on a plane before arrival, investigation of ill travelers, and, if necessary, quarantine. CDC also provides guidance to airlines for managing ill passengers and crew and for disinfecting aircraft. Earlier this week, CDC issued a Health Alert Notice reminding U.S. healthcare workers of the importance of taking steps to prevent the spread of this virus, how to test and isolate suspected patients and how they can protect themselves from infection.
At this time, CDC and its partners at points of entry are not screening passengers traveling from the affected countries. It is important to note that Ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear, and that transmission is through direct contact of bodily fluids of an infected, symptomatic person or exposure to objects like needles that have been contaminated with infected secretions.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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Lolloooloooll Locker! heheheehehehehehe. I'm frigging LOLing here.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2014 - 08:39am PT
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Rack and rope are on the way. Don't mind the blood stains. They should come right off with a little bleach. BTW, do you put the rope in your mouth to clip? Maybe practice a new method for a few weeks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Health care professionals who are going over there are like somebody soloing
Astroman, in a sleet storm. There are reports that it has a toehold, pardon
the climbing analogy, in Lagos, Nigeria. If that is true then it will be
game over for Africa, especially given the prevalent attitudes to it being
a form of witchcraft plus the reticence to cooperate with health care workers
because they are also seen as witches. I don't particularly fear it getting
established here. It is far more likely that it will get to Asia first,
and that would be very bad. It certainly is not unlikely that it could
get into the immigrant banlieues of Europe.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Headed to Atlanta? Seems like maybe the best place in the world to contain it? CDC is headquartered there I beleive.
What surprises me is that this is such a large outbreak compared to others I had heard of. Seems like it may be a more robust strain environmentally speaking than in the past. That is a scary thought.
Ebola has been hard to isolate in the wild. Years ago when I looked into it a little they did not know the source. Not sure if they do now. The reason for this is that in the past at least it is an extremely fragile virus that cannot survive airborne or for long outside the body.
Perhaps that is changing .. that would indeed be a terrifying mutation. A possible show stopper. As in possibly shutdown travel and economies worldwide and kill millions.
Tom Clancy wrote a plausible scenario regarding Ebola engineered as a WMD. The science and info in the story is quite good.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Michael Crichton's The Andromeda Strain might be more a propos.
As you note it wouldn't be a very good bio weapon due to its fragility.
The sad thing is that in Africa it is a weapon, of ignorance.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2014 - 09:04am PT
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Yes, CDC is right there. My guess is that CDC is using this as an opportunity to test the leakiness of their BSL4 treatment capabilities looking for ways to tighten up their protocols.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Ebola would be a pretty poor bio-weapon. No airborne transmission and too highly lethal. You want something more like smallpox.
And no, a couple infected people coming back under close clinical supervision doesn't worry me too much.
For those interested in this sort of thing who have a smartphone, there is a game called Plague that you can get that doesn't pretty good job of modeling how changing different variables(transmission vectors, symptoms, mortality, treatment) affects spread and mortality. If you can get past the somewhat grim concept, it's pretty interesting.
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overwatch
climber
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As long as you guys aren't worried...whew!
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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In Richard Preston's Hot Zone, the Ebola virus was suspected of mutating into an airborne strain that infected the poor chimpanzees with something similar to influenza. They hadn't been in contact with one another, i.e. bodily fluid transmission, as they were kept seperated. Anyone else read that book?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I haven't listened to Alex Jones recently, but I'm sure its a lab brewed bio-war disease as is.... strategically planted in Africa to reduce the human population a-la the Bilderberg protocols..... or something like that. :)
Meanwhile my 80 year old mother is losing sleep over this. Keeps reminding me of the 50% die-off rate in the 14th century plague. But then when you are 80 there are lots of things to keep you awake.
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overwatch
climber
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Tioga
You definitely think outside the box ...if I drank I would have one with you
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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A bigger concern is the male from Stockton with anti-biotic resistant TB that escaped quarantine...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I actually know a lot about this field, and I have to say that I heartily agree with the OP on this.
One of the great defenses of our country, both against military and disease, are the vast oceans.
Moving a patient to Atlanta eliminates this huge advantage. Were I in charge, I would never have allowed this.
When talking about written accounts, by far the best is "The Hot Zone" by Richard Preston. It is a factually REAL account of another ebola outbreak, which occurred in Reston, Virginia. By the absolute grace of God, it turned out to be a strain that did not cause disease in humans, although it did infect humans. It had a 100% mortality rate in monkeys, though. And it was apparently airborne.
When you read about the astonishing TRUE incompetence by the CDC and other authorities, who were the world's experts in this virus, the concept of bringing patients with the disease into the country frightens me.
You might also consider that this is the same CDC that was recently cited for their inexcusable handling of weapon-grade infective materials.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sandstone, you are right about the books description.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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A bigger concern is the male from Stockton with anti-biotic resistant TB that escaped quarantine...
No. Tiny problem by comparison.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ebola is not the ideal bioweapon. You actually would prefer a much lower fatality rate, but one which produced long term disability effects....sort of like polio.
You would prefer one that has a long incubation, during which the person can infect others....like influenza.
You would prefer one that infected by aerosol...like influenza....and some strains of Ebola.
So, this Ebola strain is not ideal....but it has potential. One must also be cautious about the concept that sometimes viruses change DURING an epidemic, becoming much more problematic.
Most worrisome: These Americans were professional healthcare workers, who presumably knew what they were doing.
So, how did they become infected?
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beaner
Social climber
Maine
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What surprises me is that this is such a large outbreak compared to others I had heard of. Seems like it may be a more robust strain environmentally speaking than in the past. That is a scary thought.
Other outbreaks occurred in rural villages and it was possible to quarantine an entire village. This time the outbreaks have also affected large cities, some with populations in the millions making it more difficult to contain. Still, it spreads rather slowly -- it has been in Conakry, Guinea (1.6-2 million people) for quite some time and has affected less than 100 people (that they know of).
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overwatch
climber
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Thanks a lot, ken m, I'm shitting my pants now.
Keep those immune systems boosted
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Travis Haussener
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Bio weapons sheesh come on you guys think positive...as a chemist, this is our wet dream. Pretty much unlimited reign to test anything you want on these patients with zero repercussions from the grand ole' FDA, given the circumstances i.e. (you're dead either way).
Personally I think western medicine (IV's, internal lines, blood transfusions) would provide a reduced mortality rate for any strain, it's just the countries are soooo poor. I'm interested/excited to see how this goes.
Maybe someone with a little more virology or medical experience could chime in. I have no idea as to how good (relatively speaking) the treatment is in West Africa.
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overwatch
climber
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I believe ken m is a doctor
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I do have an MD, and a masters in microbiology/genetics.
there are few things medically that really scare me, but Ebola is #1 on that list.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I have no idea as to how good (relatively speaking) the treatment is in West Africa.
I believe that Medecins Sans Frontieres has been running the show in
Conakry so they are hardly n00bs and from what I have seen their sterile
technique has been quite rigorous. That is why their people who have
contracted it is so worrisome.
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beaner
Social climber
Maine
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I believe that Medecins Sans Frontieres has been running the show in
Conakry so they are hardly n00bs and from what I have seen their sterile
technique has been quite rigorous. That is why their people who have
contracted it is so worrisome.
The two infected Americans were with Samaritan's Purse. How much experience did they have with Ebola?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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I think only one of the infected Americans was formally a clinician, the others were missionaries who did some health care work. Still, a bit puzzling and concerning that we're seeing infections in the clinical staff at this point.
The Reston incident mentioned in the Hot Zone seems to be somewhat of an outlier. They think it was airborne, but if I remember correctly, that wasn't conclusively proven. And as mentioned above, it seems that strain wasn't a problem for humans. But that's obviously not a guarantee that something worse won't show up in the future.
And while I'm not an MD, I do work in health data analytics, so have enough epidemiology background to be reasonably coherent about this stuff.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Actually, the video I saw was of those guys as the narrator said the person
on camera was one of the infected so it was their sterile protocols I was
seeing. I mean they had masks on top of masks and double-gloved with goggles
and spraying their footwear and walking through disinfectant baths and on
and on. That's why it is so scary.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The Reston incident mentioned in the Hot Zone seems to be somewhat of an outlier. They think it was airborne, but if I remember correctly, that wasn't conclusively proven. And as mentioned above, it seems that strain wasn't a problem for humans. But that's obviously not a guarantee that something worse won't show up in the future.
And while I'm not an MD, I do work in health data analytics, so have enough epidemiology background to be reasonably coherent about this stuff.
I believe that RESTV was conclusively shown to be airborne. As you note, it was a unique case. However, every outbreak seems to fall into that category, which is worrisome that there is genetic drift with each different strain.
There was at least one case where there was presumed pig-human transmission of RESTV, and these sorts of transmissions are the most worrisome, as they are the most likely to produce very pathogenic strains of epidemics such as flu.
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overwatch
climber
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I gotta stop reading this thread. It is making me want to post something I shouldn't say
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Our Government can prevent these individuals from being brought to the US and can also insure they receive top notch medical care in Africa.
The best interests of the American people in general are once again being ignored---something that is becoming disturbingly commonplace from today's Federal Government --- long overdue for a giant bitch-slap from the American people---at least that portion of the American public that actually gives a rats rear end about this country.
The American people are not being given the benefit of the doubt here.
It's time at least that one of the current crop of cowardly politicians stand up and say this.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Scary scary scary. . .
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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IMO, the potential problem is not the two patients being brought here. It's much more likely already in our country given that infected people in Africa were in major cities.
And if healthy people are not prepared to hole up for at least a few months without any outside assistance, well then, they're not paying attention.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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Ken M makes an excellent point regarding recent safety lapses at the CDC.
(CNN) -- Anthrax. Smallpox. A potentially deadly strain of the flu virus. The American public trusts the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to handle dangerous biological materials, but recent incidents have put a damper on the agency's reputation, members of Congress said Wednesday.
"What happened was completely unacceptable," CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden said in his testimony before the Energy and Commerce Committee's subcommittee for Oversight and Investigations.
"It never should have happened."
Rep. Tim Murphy, R-Pennsylvania, the subcommittee chairman, opened the hearing by summarizing the troubling incidents that have come to light over the past month.
In early June, dozens of CDC workers were potentially exposed to anthrax after a lab failed to inactivate the dangerous bacteria before transferring it to a lower lab.
A subsequent investigation revealed "an alarming series of failures," according to one of the subcommittee members, including an incident of cross contamination between a relatively safe and a potentially deadly strain of the flu virus.
An outside investigation by the U.S. Department of Agriculture found dangerous biological materials stored in unlocked refrigerators and a general lack of lab workers following safety protocols. Investigators say the anthrax that was believed to be deactivated was transferred in Ziploc bags, which are obviously not approved to carry such materials.
"This is troubling, and it is completely unacceptable," Murphy said. "The CDC is supposed to be the gold standard (for lab safety). ...This is not sound science, and this will not be tolerated. These practices put the health of the American public at risk."
Murphy said the CDC was lucky that no one appears to have been infected during the anthrax incident, but "sooner or later that luck will run out."
This is not the first time the subcommittee has heard of safety issues at CDC labs, said Rep. Diana DeGette, D-Colorado. Multiple hearings over the past decade have shown lapses that together reveal a problem with safety reporting at the agency, she said.
"What we all need to know is the plan to change the culture at the CDC," DeGette said. "We can do a lot but we can't legislate a culture change."
Frieden, who took the CDC director job in 2009, acknowledged that he and other CDC managers failed to recognize a "critical pattern."
The CDC has closed the labs that were involved in the incidents. They won't reopen until better safety procedures are in place, Frieden said. Scientists have also stopped moving any biological material out of its two highest-level labs while their procedures are being re-evaluated.
This may slow some CDC processes -- such as providing materials for companies to create next year's flu vaccine, Frieden said -- but safety comes first.
"We must do that work more safely, and we will," he said.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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“To mess around with Ebola is an easy way to die. Better to work with something safer, such as anthrax.”
― Richard Preston, The Hot Zone
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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All I can think is the lunatics are in charge
to even consider this transfer of live Ebola virus
into the US.
A Virus Walks Into a Bar...' and Other Science Jokes - Brian Malow
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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I agree with Ward Trotter. This is all about bleeding heart liberals.
It's about an arrogant group of ideologues and fools in charge of the national government who are now consistently putting their political ideology, power interests, and stupidity ahead of the best interests of the American people.
The way this monumental arrogance manifests itself over this particular issue is in a conspicuous failure and unwillingness to give the citizens of this country the highest priority of safety, and benefit of the doubt ,against a horribly contagious disease.
Ebola is still largely a mystery. It is a virus with the potential capacity to change and adapt to new circumstances.
Why play russian Roulette with a highly contagious disease of this magnitude on the blind assurances of a medical establishment at Emory, or any other institution---a medical establishment currently incapable of fully understanding or predicting the possible adaptive course of this horrendous virus in a new environment, should a human error occur? And this is not to mention presently not having a vaccine or a cure against this thing.
It is irresponsible and stupid and gets at the very heart of how currently unresponsive our government has become at putting the interests and safety of the American people first and foremost.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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What Overwatch said.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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That sh#t makes your heart bleed too?
F*#k.
Oh well, time to pack ebola
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crankster
Trad climber
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These "missionaries" are either nut jobs or (more likely) CIA agents--so of course they got to bring their "injured personnel" back to the grounds. Most likely they were CIA employees aiding in their "research" to begin with. Plus, the fake with the Malaysian plane didn't work out so Ob-ola needs another little scandal to distract attention from the border situation. He wages full on war, bringing scabies, tuberculosis and what's not along with illegal criminals across the border freely; early into his 1st term, he had allowed anyone with HIV immigrate into the US (which was not allowed before him). I wonder why Atlanta and not So Cal...oh wait in So Cal it might hurt illegals, god forbids.
Climbers...should stick to climbing.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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We're overdue for a good global pandemic anyway . . . hell in a bucket baby.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
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My opinion on this has changed over the day as I have thought about it more.
Given the extent of this outbreak in Africa, it's likely that somebody will fly to the US before they are symptomatic and then a few days later end up in an ER in some random hospital. The CDC can figure out their response when their hand is forced, or they can deal with it now under as close to ideal circumstances as you can have in such a situation. The CDC gets a practice run here in a semi-controlled setting that will help them make recommendations and take effective actions when this comes to an ER near you.
I presume that CDC will be screening all folks that come in and out of the quarantine facility with daily blood draws and will isolate anybody testing positive long before they are symptomatic.
edit - That isn't to say that I wouldn't prefer if this practice run was happening at a remote and fully equipped hospital at sea or in the desert. Doing this in America's 9th largest metro area still seems unnecessarily risky, and seems overly confident, but that's where the CDC is so you takes what you gets.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Exactly, the virus is already here in unmonitored/unknown populations. We'll know for sure in less than 30 days.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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It's being brought here to be studied. Saving those two lives is secondary, although the longer they can keep them alive, the longer they can study and test various methods/drugs. It's hard to study a disease like this on a continent that probably doesn't have any facilities to study this virus.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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A good Ebola outbreak takes the attention off the major issues with Russia and Israel . . . must diffuse the fears.
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TimH
Trad climber
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Thanks a lot, ken m, I'm shitting my pants now.
Given some of the symptoms of Ebola, are you sure you haven't traveled to Africa recently?
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overwatch
climber
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No monkey meat/f*#king for me.
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crankster
Trad climber
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A good Ebola outbreak takes the attention off the major issues with Russia and Israel . . . must diffuse the fears.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Its unbelievable that we did not react with the full might of the US and its allies when this Ebola outbreak started again, and make a concerted effprt to help contain it. This should have been number one on our governments list, instead of f*#king the dog in Ukraine where we have no business and all the other associated bs that is "news". Instead if this gets loose, half the population of the US could be wiped out. Insanity or .....?
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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"i'm reading an article in a spanish newspaper about some spanish dr that are working in liberia. Some of them are infected, the reason is that tests were not accurate and treated people thinking that they were not dealing with ebola. One of the infected dr wrote a letter about the lack of equipment and material. They asked for goverment help and received only 100 pairs of dissposable gloves, 1 pair of boots, 50 face masks, 5 dissposable suites and 2 bottles of disinfectant. This only lasts 1 day."
This from a comment section in a cnn article:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/health/ebola-outbreak-questions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I posted earlier that it was chimps in Reston Virginia who contracted Ebola Reston. It was actually crab-eating macaques that were exposed.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Apparently, there's nothing the crazies don't see as a conspiracy.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Keep posting your cutesy gauge photos and always contributing nothing but negativity Crankster. Maybe grow up a little.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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have they tried saying crab-eating macaques ten times fast?
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Zombies. . .so now it begins. . .
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So what do you expect when you fly Gambia Bird airlines?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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I'm a little more worried about the scabies outbreak in my town.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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If it's airborne and as virulent as some would suggest, you'll see thousands dead within a few weeks.
My bet is we won't see that from this virus.
But I will be eliminating all of the bushmeat from my freezer. At least the monkeys.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Keep posting your cutesy gauge photos and always contributing nothing but negativity Crankster.
Ok, Studless, I'll try to post more positive, feel-good stuff like this.
This should have been number one on our governments list, instead of f*#king the dog in Ukraine
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Oh F*K! U.K. Gatwick Airport Ebola Scare!
A Passenger collapsed and died after getting off a jet from
Sierra Leone at Gatwick airport in the U.K.
Fellow passengers were alarmed and said the woman was sweating buckets
and vomiting non stop when they saw her collapse immediately after walking
off the jet. She died shortly after being taken to hospital.
Everyone who was on that jet could be in danger if they touched
the same surfaces that the sick woman touched during the flight
(restroom, seat backs, arm rests) and then rubbed their eyes or ate the virus accidentally with food transferred from their fingers.
Only a single Ebola virus particle is needed to get sick when
transferred by touching a contaminated surface; such as the restroom door
latch.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Aug 3 (Reuters) - An American doctor stricken with the deadly Ebola virus while in Liberia and brought to the United States for treatment in a special isolation ward is improving, the top U.S. health official said on Sunday.
Ignore Donald Trump. Be happy. Go climbing.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Ok something curious about the video of PATIENT ZERO
being helped out of the Ebola Van at Emory Hospital
in Atlanta. We see that the nurse helping PATIENT ZERO
has a battery powered air filtration system on his suit
but nothing but a suit with hood on the Ebola guy. He may
have a cartridge mask on....but..
Looks like he is exhaling Ebola freely into America's air (his hood is open on bottom) because filtration masks are made to filter air going in not going out..that check valve thingy.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Well the 'official' theory is that human-lethal strains of Ebola are not airborne. So efforts would be to keep large particles/droplets to a minimum.
If it IS airborne, you'll see thousands of dead in Lagos very soon.
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DavidJones
Boulder climber
Belgium
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Don't worry, I heard they're bringing back an infected USA worker for treatment. He'll be in a locked environment. Don't worry...;)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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dave79 posted Looks like he is exhaling Ebola freely into America's air (his hood is open on bottom) because filtration masks are made to filter air going in not going out..that check valve thingy.
Ebola is a contact/droplet spread illness virus which normally calls for little more than a gown, gloves and mask. The only reason they are using the space suits is beacause it is so dreadfully terrible if it is transmitted. The patient was transported inside that plastic capsule which is more than capable of containing the illness so long as it hasn't mutated to be airborne.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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The sky is falling, the sky is falling....
Or it's not. Not here in the US. At least not any more than it was already. There have already been been cases of lassa, dengue, Marburg, etc. To say nothing of Hanta, which is a far more likely problem for the people on this board.
Try this blog for a halfway decent look by someone who actually knows what they are talking about:
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2014/08/02/ebola-is-already-in-the-united-states/
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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I'll try to carry on.
It's difficult though, what with Ebola being exactly like that Rage virus depicted in 28 Days Later.
I'm actually quite good with them bringing those people here. The risk is very low. And sooner or later these diseases do make their way to the US in a uncontrolled situation. I'd much rather that we take the opportunity to use these patients(guinea pigs effectively) to study treatment in a high tech First World setting so that we're better prepared when we actually have something to worry about.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2014 - 11:58am PT
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Here's a press photo of Dr. Brantly (1st patient brought to Atlanta) treating an Ebola patient in Africa. It will be interesting to find out how he became infected despite his use of precautions (at least in this photo).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^^ That was a given almost two weeks ago as I noted on the first page, but it was largely
ignored or missed by mainstream media. Africa's reaction to the crisis is typical - call out the
troops. What do you suppose China's reaction will be given their status as the major player in
further plundering Africa's resources? This looks to quickly make the Ukraine look a sideshow
but that won't happen until Ebola starts having its way in the Italian or French banlieues.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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I think it's a given it's in the US population as well. Once it establishes a firm hold in Lagos, the expansion rate will be geometric. It won't burn through the population here like it will in West Africa, though. Superstition and fear play a big part in why it's spreading like it is. Dead bodies in the streets, hidden away in homes, etc. Terrible stuff.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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I don't think it's a given, yet. But it most likely will be. People are fleeing Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea at alarming rates. With an incubation of up to 21 days it's only a matter of time before individuals start to exhibit symptoms in their home countries.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Give it another two weeks... If Lagos isn't stacking them like cordwood in the streets that should indicate this/these particular strains are not that virulent.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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stevep posted Try this blog for a halfway decent look by someone who actually knows what they are talking about:
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2014/08/02/ebola-is-already-in-the-united-states/
This is true if a bit specious. For one, saying "it's already here!" is a little disingenuous when it's "here but in highly controlled labs" not being passed from person to person. Secondly, recent events have exposed lapses in even these types of laboratories which led anthrax to be sent to a children's hospital in 2004 and misplaced anthrax again just a few months ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/29/us-usa-anthrax-risks-insight-idUSKBN0F40DY20140629
The Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services, CDC's parent agency, in reports released in 2008 and 2010, documented a long list of issues. CDC labs working with the most dangerous agents did not always ensure the physical security of the pathogens or restrict access to them, and did not always ensure that personnel received required training.
Now I'm personally not worried about the current ebola outbreak turning into a Hollywood pandemic and I think it is vital that these Americans be brought home for treatment because they will have the best chances to survive and not doing so would discourage others from being willing to do service work in the developing world. However, this does not mean that there is zero risk in bringing these people back and a mild amount of concern is warranted...just not cynical "oh yeah that's a GREAT idea" levels of concern. There needs to be pressure on the CDC and HHS to ensure that these facilities are being audited and run competently.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I agree.
Not a major risk, but when I hear Joe Blow on the news say that the CDC are the experts and know what they are doing then I have a one word response;
anthrax.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Anytime you touch any surface, millions of germs
potentially make the leap from that cold,
impenetrable plastic to your warm, porous hands
and from there to your eyes, nose or mouth,
and then the Ebola virus will begin amplification.
Turning your body into a virus factory.
Imagine something takes over a Tesla car factory
and Twinkies start coming out the door instead of e-cars.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Some idiot on CNN just said we could get hundreds of millions of deaths. Sorry, this just isn't that transmissible a virus. Since this latest outbreak started, both malaria and tuberculosis have killed more than 100,000 people. Try hard to keep things in perspective.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Perspective.....sorry, as you know, that goes completely out the window once the media gets hold of a juicy issue.
What we are being serverd up is "the polar vortex" of epedemics.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The hysteria isn't completely unwarranted given the extreme death rate, the
inability to treat people adequately in Africa, and the fact that it is a
virus and all that entails in terms of adaptability in a short term.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Reilly...Monrovia , Liberia and the other Monrovia , Ca...Ebola outbreak...Inside info on outbreak....What else do you know...? Should we contact Chris Mac...? Come clean...rj
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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From the CDC:
What about ill Americans with Ebola who are being brought to the U.S. for treatment? How is CDC protecting the American public?
CDC has very well-established protocols in place to ensure the safe transport and care of patients with infectious diseases back to the United States. These procedures cover the entire process -- from patients leaving their bedside in a foreign country to their transport to an airport and boarding a non-commercial airplane equipped with a special transport isolation unit, to their arrival at a medical facility in the United States that is appropriately equipped and staffed to handle such cases. CDC’s role is to ensure that travel and hospitalization is done to minimize risk of spread of infection and to ensure that the American public is protected. Patients were evacuated in similar ways during SARS.
I would bet that many level 4 facilities have live Ebola for study. The only good thing about Ebola is that it is hard to transmit compared to something like Influenza.
The H1N1 virus looked like it was going to be far worse than it has so far been. It is highly transmissible.
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jstan
climber
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I have already taken action on Ebola. I am posting on ST at half my normal rate. If infection without substance is possible this will be an effective first step.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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CDC has very well-established protocols in place to ensure the safe transport and care of patients
Ok, lets take a look.
You can find all over the internet, pictures and video of the first patient arriving. What do we see? He is climbing off the back of a transport vehicle, scrambling off the bumper with the help of ONE person. You are telling me that it is part of the protocol to have people jump off the back of ambulances? What if he fell? Do you think that fancy isolation uniform would survive an impact with the cement? Do you think his skin would?
Most of you have been to a hospital, either yourself, or with a family member. Remember how they require you to enter and leave by a wheelchair??
That is so that people who are ill don't end up taking a header.
So what do they do???? They have him walk into the hospital.
So much for following protocols. Already they are broken.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Now consider this:
What happens if one of the healthcare workers at Emory comes down with Ebola?
You are the public health official in charge. What do you do?
Keep doing the (failed) things that you are doing?
Isolate that part of the hospital, as you track down every contact that person has had---grocery store, Starbucks, REI?
So you isolate the hospital? What do you imagine the people inside want to do? Massive police presence?
Do you close the city? The airports?
What do you do?
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overwatch
climber
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I am with you...the seedisease is always stepping on their dicks...but crankster says its cool
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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wait, so we have knowingly imported zombies into the grand ol' republic of murica?
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overwatch
climber
|
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Seedisease...copyright Overwatch
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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This looks like just about every end-of-the-world-epidemic-or-zombie movie I've ever seen.
Just remember----they are following these "well established protocols"----or not.
But they apparently don't want you to ask questions.
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MisterE
climber
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Russ Walling nick-named me "Ebola Erik" after a diseased trip to Vegas with Nature when I spent three days in my van while they had fun.
It wasn't Ebola, ultimately - just food poisoning.
There have been worse nick-names from The Fish, however, so I feel somewhat fortunate...
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doc bs
Social climber
Northwest
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I am an MD.
I am glad the Atlanta research hospital is taking care of the sick Americans. I am sure the medevac was safe and contained the illness. They need to find out if we can save these people.
I AM worried about the VOLUNTEER TOURISTS. I AM worried about AIRPLANE travel.
It would be EASY for health care workers to contract E bola in a busy missionary clinic in Africa. Seeing hundreds of patient a day - coughing and snotting and bleeding, without masks and chux pads and antiseptic house cleaning supplies and separate exam rooms.
EVERYONE in my clinic is trained in universal precautions EVERY YEAR. We are getting special training AGAIN in the upcoming days again because of Ebola.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Why it will only get a lot worse in Liberia:
President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf has called for three days of fasting and prayer as
"the ultimate solution" to the Enola crisis. That sounds more like the Final Solution.
Meanwhile, Nigerian authorities announced five new cases and two deaths.
A Saudi man who visited Sierra Leone and contracted Ebola has died in a Jidda hospital.
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jstan
climber
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Let's say the mortality rate is 90%. What might one do if feeling known symptoms? I would not go to a health center. That is where one would go if one wanted to contact the disease. Besides, at 90% mortality going there has little chance of helping.
People are self quarantining. Reasonable, and we read of bodies hidden in houses. Once the person has died, maybe burn the house? Those without houses get someone you know to leave the supplies you need out in some isolated spot. Go there and stay put the 21 days. Survivors just heap dirt on those who did not survive.
When we three boys had scarlet fever our mother stayed with us and dad lived in an out-building till it was over. We self-quarantined.
Edit:
jstan, yes, going to an African hospital might not be your best option.
But in a real hospital they can treat your symptoms and possibly save you.
I know of several elderly people who went to hospital and there soon died of pneumonia. A drug resistant strain generally found in hospitals. But, in the end we all end up fookin dead.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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With that in mind, there are probably way more than 932 deaths.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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jstan, yes, going to an African hospital might not be your best option.
But in a real hospital they can treat your symptoms and possibly save you.
The LA Times published a telling photo today of a man who collapsed in a
puddle in the middle of a street in Conakry. Three or four policemen are
seen maintaining a cordon while, presumably, they wait for an ambulance.
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overwatch
climber
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"doc bs"...gotta be a troll. As long as you are sure, whew!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
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Ken questioned . You are telling me that it is part of the protocol to have people jump off the back of ambulances? What if he fell? Do you think that fancy isolation uniform would survive an impact with the cement? Do you think his skin would?
The guy is not a giant bag of disease ready to pop like a character from Left4Dead.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
If he fell and tore his suit they'd dump some bleach on the ground, perhaps slap another gown on him (or not) and keep moving and everything would be just fine. Your reaction is the definition of hysterical.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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even if he is hysterical it would seem a wheel chair or gurney would be the protocol. it seems like they are more concerned with trying to convey that it's nothing to worry about than they are with being careful.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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If he fell and tore his suit they'd dump some bleach on the ground, perhaps slap another gown on him (or not) and keep moving and everything would be just fine. Your reaction is the definition of hysterical.
Take a look at the video. I don't see anybody with a bottle of bleach.
But in that scenario, the isolation would be broken. It has escaped the isolation protocol WHICH THEY SAY CAN NOT HAPPEN.
You are undoubtedly right about how they would attempt to handle it. That's not my point. My point is that they are telling you that things are impossible, which even you stipulate are NOT impossible.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Ken posted Take a look at the video. I don't see anybody with a bottle of bleach.
Well then I apologize. They clearly are putting the whole world at risk of dying horribly assuming that the guy fell on the street, spilled bodily fluids onto the ground and then we all went and rolled around on that spot before someone had time to get some bleach.
Ken stated You are undoubtedly right about how they would attempt to handle it. That's not my point. My point is that they are telling you that things are impossible, which even you stipulate are NOT impossible.
I never said anything was impossible. I'm pointing out that the faults you're picking are made largely out of ignorance and over the top. If someone was to be exposed it would likely be because someone mishandled themselves during decontamination or in the disposal of infectious materials, not because the guy didn't get out of the ambulance in a gurney. Most contact-transmitted diseases are protected against with nothing more than a simple gown (a smock, basically) and gloves followed by sanitizer or handwashing. The precautions they are using are so insanely beyond that it's not even comparable.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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This pretty much sums it up. Please pay attention.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Are you a climber? Then that won't be hard to accomplish
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2717762/People-dropping-dead-Ebola-streets-Liberia.html
Now Ebola victims are left to rot in the streets: Terrified relatives dump them outside for fear of catching deadly virus
Relatives of Ebola victims are dragging their bodies onto streets of Liberia
Disease-ridden bodies are left to rot in view of everyone, including children
A young man lies dead in the streets of Liberia, left to rot in view of passers-by and local children.
He is just one of many Ebola victims to have been dragged out of their homes and dumped on the country's roads by terrified relatives in a desperate bid to avoid being quarantined.
The deadly virus, which can cause victims to suffer from severe bruising and bleeding from the eyes and mouth, has claimed the lives of nearly 900 people across West Africa so far.
WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT
Shocking: Relatives of Ebola victims in Liberia have started dragging their loved ones' bodies out of their homes and dumping them on the streets in a bid to avoid being quarantined. Above, a man walks past the dead body
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:58am PT
|
my wife is a virologist with impeccable academic and industry credentials; her job is to find and systematically analyze new viruses. She suggests it is unlikely that Ebola will mutate to the point where aerial transmission is possible-and that the experiment described where Ebola was transmitted via aerosols was hugely contrived. I hope she's right... She usually is...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 30, 2014 - 02:45pm PT
|
Aieee! Zombie apocalypse has arrived.
At least it started in Texas.
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ClimberDave
Trad climber
The LBC, CA
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Sep 30, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
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Awesome!
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Sep 30, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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Winter is coming!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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my wife is a virologist with impeccable academic and industry credentials; her job is to find and systematically analyze new viruses. She suggests it is unlikely that Ebola will mutate to the point where aerial transmission is possible-and that the experiment described where Ebola was transmitted via aerosols was hugely contrived. I hope she's right... She usually is...
As another virologist, I'm much more cautious.
Underlying her assumption is the concept that we fully understand how this virus functions.
The lie to that assumption is what is happening right now. We are seeing a vast epidemic, where in the past there have been only small outbreaks. We thought we understood what would happen with this virus.
We didn't.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Sep 30, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
|
Yikes!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 05:35pm PT
|
So, now, the US is one of only a handful of countries where Ebola has been diagnosed.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Sep 30, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
|
I wonder how many people the man in Dallas had potentially infectious contact with in his travel to Texas?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
|
Is there any restrictions in place for travelers going to or coming from west africa? It would seem prudent for our government agencies not to have the same open southern border policy with west Africa at this time.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
|
It is amazing that broader travel quarantines and restrictions have not already been implemented . . . Ebola, coming to a city near you!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
|
The Ebola patient is a plant by the Obama Administration to take peoples minds off the continuing recession...Don't fall for it...
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dirtbag
climber
|
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
|
It is an example of the complete failure of Obamacare.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
|
So Kalimon, I gather from your response that their is no safeguards in place to prevent the direct contamination of our land and peoples from a known hazardous population half a world away. Amazing how much our current political system and governing party cares for its citizens. Does anyone else wonder why these bums are in power over us?
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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Small world ain't it.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
|
Sumner...They are in power because nobody was dumb enough to vote for Romneyd#@&%e...
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 30, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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Oh RJ, im so glad you enlightened us on the increased intellect of the electorate. We all know Romney would be inviting all manner of diseased immigrants with an even more robust open borders policy than the current mob boss. Dumbass, wasn't he ? Im sure glad we've got Barack, Harry and the dethroned queen Nancy looking out for us, aren't you?
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Sep 30, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
|
So the guy was sick for 2 days shedding Ebola Zaire virus.
How many grocery stores, restaurants, and coffee shops did
he sniffle and wipe his nose at then hand money over to
some poor unsuspecting cashier in the Dallas area?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
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Sep 30, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
|
Did anyone else notice Ebola and Obama both have 3 vowels and 2 consonants?
George Bush at least kept America safe from Ebola.
On the positive side of things, maybe this means we can quarantine Texas. Hopefully with Ted Cruz and a few Fox News reporters and anchors in it.
And on the travel front, pretty sure American carriers stopped all flights to the affected countries some time ago. He probably went through another country.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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Rick...No problem...Glad i could help you out...Check out my new book...Ebolics...rj
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 30, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
|
Can I purchase an autographed copy? Should be worth its weight in gold for diciphering the nuances of this new culture of hope and change.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 30, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
|
I wonder how many people the man in Dallas had potentially infectious contact with in his travel to Texas?
You can only spread Ebola to another person if you actually are ill. Reportedly, he did not become ill until he'd been in the US for 4-5 days, so he could not have infected anyone on the plane.
Also, that is too short a time to become ill after exposure. He brought it with him.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Most of you guys are embarrassingly stupid.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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For what reason do you claim this Base? What, you don't think it reasonable for our government to put in place tight travel restrictions to and from an area of lethal epedemics? TSA, under homeland security, is patting down grandma, toddlers and maintains a no fly list to supposedly prevent terrorism. Is it not reasonable to curtail travel from affected areas and screen necessary travelers for a virus that strikes infinitely more terror in the minds of the population than shoe or under wear bombers?.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
|
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I've been in Ghana West Africa for the past ten days where currently there has been no reported Ebola case. I am wondering however what the screening will be like when I reenter the States on Sunday...
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John M
climber
|
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Well, this gets interesting. The man in Texas with Ebola was originally released from the hospital with just antibiotics. He went home for two days before returning.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nothing personal Marty, but I woukd hope they would give you and all other passengers a blood test before exiting any area in the affected region. Have'nt looked on a map, are you near the area?
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Ghana is about twice as far away from Ebola as California is from Texas.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sounds like your beyond the zone of concern then. Happy trails friend.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Lets put a cap on this thread, typical of ST much chatter little sense.
Had lunch last week with my broker and a well informed physician friend, and ebola was briefly a topic.
He said that sending thousands of health care workers and millions of dollars is a poor response. The problem is merely a cultural one. The virus is not easily transmitted if victims are quarantined,.... but much easier to pass on if you are obliged by poverty to nurse your own and then by social custom to publicly wail and moan and hug and kiss the corpse of loved ones extensively!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Maybe not?
According to the Center for Aerobiological Sciences, U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, Maryland:
(1) Ebola has an aerosol stability that is comparable to Influenza-A
(2) Much like Flu, Airborne Ebola transmissions need Winter type conditions to maximize Aerosol infection
"Filoviruses, which are classified as Category A Bioterrorism Agents by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (Atlanta, GA), have stability in aerosol form comparable to other lipid containing viruses such as influenza A virus, a low infectious dose by the aerosol route (less than 10 PFU) in NHPs, and case fatality rates as high as ~90% ."
"The mode of acquisition of viral infection in index cases is usually unknown. Secondary transmission of filovirus infection is typically thought to occur by direct contact with infected persons or infected blood or tissues. There is no strong evidence of secondary transmission by the aerosol route in African filovirus outbreaks. However, aerosol transmission is thought to be possible and may occur in conditions of lower temperature and humidity which may not have been factors in outbreaks in warmer climates [13]. At the very least, the potential exists for aerosol transmission, given that virus is detected in bodily secretions, the pulmonary alveolar interstitial cells, and within lung spaces"
Analysis:
Its clear that when Ebola is in the air it is at least as hardy as Influenza. Its also clear that coughing and sneezing is what makes Influenza airborne; the same should be expected of Ebola.
Moreover, just as sun, heat, and humidity along the Earths' Equatorial regions serve to 'burn' Influenza out of the air, the same should be expected of Ebola. The difference with Ebola is that physical contact with even the tiniest amounts of infected bodily fluid can cause infection, hence unlike flu it also readily spreads in equatorial regions. When Ebola spreads to the regions of the Earth which experience Fall and Winter Flu seasons, airborne Ebola infectious routes are to be expected in conjunction with direct contact infection. http://pissinontheroses.blogspot.com/2014/09/us-army-says-ebola-flu-in-airborne.html
I guess we'll know for sure in a few months.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
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Why send any health care workers if the natives are just going to kill them?
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
|
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This is a fascinating scenario. They tore whole pages out of the Hot Zone on this poor guy in Dallas.
He feels bad enough that he goes to the hospital, in the back of his mind probably thinking he may have Ebola, showing symptoms of the early stage disease, tells the staff he has just come from Liberia, and they "fail to communicate", fail to connect the dots in any basic manner at the hospital and send him home with some antibiotics (!).
He wanders around Dallas for 2 days before he gets so ill that he has to be taken in by ambulance, puking all over the place, and only then does it occur to the staff that they just may have a problem (!).
Who knows how many people he actually contacted while in a highly infectious state.
I'm sure there are a lot of people in the know who are really shitting their pants right now while trying to put on a good face on it (oh, NO Worries, we've got it ALLL in control...trust us, we're the experts).
Phew! Welcome to the Middle Ages...this is what the bubonic plague was like then, boys and girls...fear, isolation, anger...it's already started on RSS and Fox...fear of the other, the contagion carried by the outsiders...the fearmongers will play this for all it's worth...the great black harp of prejudice and xenophobia is just beginning to play...all sourced in the city that hosted the end of the American Century in 1963...is this some sort of weird and darksome destiny or what?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
|
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The identity of the man(?) who is suffering with Ebola has not been provided yet. Maybe ask ourselves, before we make cold uncaring comments "Would I say this if this were my cousin? How would I feel about the comment I made if, when this person's name is published, it turns out to be a long lost friend I admired/relative/old flame/etc.?"
Thank God the man is in doctor's care and has a chance. Get Well Soon, brother.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Thank goodness for that kind sentiment Happigrr.
I feel bad that
my immediate thought was the guy is probably a muslim and traveled to
those Ebola villages just to get infected and come here to punish
the great satan. When you think about it his actions would have been
no different if he did have evil intent rather than just being a moron.
A moron who helped carry sick Ebola patients who died over there and then
completely forgets about it. What with all the excitement of traveling to
Texas and all. Anyone could easily forget about that.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
|
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Anyone read what Thomas Eric Duncan does for a living in one of the
poorest countries in the world?
Because plane tickets for the Monrovia-Brussels-Washington DC-DallasTexas
trip could be about $10,000. Quite a bit to go see a girlfriend or was it
to get to the best medical care in the world fast?
So did he buy the tickets before or after he was carrying ebola patients
up and down stairways in Liberia?
And who said there are no direct flights from Monrovia to the USA?
Right now there's an N8 901 National Airlines inbound to Trenton NJ.
Hope they check everyone on it.
http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByAirport.do?airportCode=WRI&airportQueryType=1
McGuire Air Force Base Trenton NJ USA
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Ebola is not scary to me as there is no severe outbreak of it in the US..but peoples reaction to Ebola is a bit scary.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^ I just heard the "Ebola Update" on the local radio. I felt like emailing
the station: "Did I tune into High School Dropout Radio by accident?"
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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How to say this delicately. Liberia Ebola guy, now in isolation in that
Texas hospital, had intimate relations with his Dallas girlfriend for an entire week at her apt. Three children also live in the same apt.
Hope they charge him with murder if any of them die.
Way to much information for the squeamish found here:
http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily
"Simply uttering the word Ebola is enough to cause a person to cringe, shudder, twitch, or perhaps..."
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
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Google "CDC Ebola Fact Sheet" and read the .pdf from the CDC. Eventually you will come to this...
PREVENTION
The prevention of Ebola HF presents many challenges. Because it is still unknown how exactly people are infected with Ebola HF....
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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So Kalimon, I gather from your response that their is no safeguards in place to prevent the direct contamination of our land and peoples from a known hazardous population half a world away.
There are safeguards in place but seemingly too little too late . . . an extremely difficult situation. This is the first ever case of Ebola diagnosed in the US, something to be extremely concerned about! As for the problem being a "hazardous population" . . . this is an existing virus that does not identify with the race of the individual it infects, any and all populations could be considered hazardous.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Breaking From The Hot Zone.
CDC sends in 'Top Men' for Dallas Ebola containment and cleanup!
Crews? Actually looks like 2 guys in street clothes with a power washer splashing and misting Thomas Eric Duncan's Ebola vomit up into their mouths and eyes. No sign of a bleach bottle to kill the virus.
(report says he vomited in that patch of dirt and collapsed on the sidewalk
before the ambulance arrived. Then he puked inside the ambulance.)
Edit: A NBC cameraman tests positive for Ebola in Liberia. Shredding virus. Saying they will fly the guy back to USA for treatment. The rest of that NBc news team goes into isolation in Monrovia.
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crankster
Trad climber
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It's a frickin virus, you deranged Obama Haters!!!
The international air travel system has also proved to have porous screening procedures that rely heavily on the honesty of travelers and the diligence of airport workers. The chairman of the Liberian national airport authority, Binyah Kesselly, said Thursday that Mr. Duncan had been deceptive about his exposure to the virus when he flew out of Roberts International Airport in Monrovia on Sept. 19.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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This is not the first time Ebola has been in the U.S.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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If it's Ebola or Influenza or something else.... let's say Virus 6456x. Nature will attempt to wipe out a few billion humans no matter what. Always has, always will. It's just a question of when and who.
It's nothing you can't prepare for. IMO if you don't have at the ability to hunker down for at least 6 months with no outside contact... well then, that's something to work towards.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Hunkering down for 6 month with no outside help... not a problem...
Avoiding outsiders.. Much more difficult.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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hey New World Order-there's an article and editorial in today's New York Times about this-just so you, the main stream media is reporting on this. And President Obama called this the biggest threat to our National security.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Fox is the mainstream media. The hysterical call to end all flights is talked about by the extremists there.
From the Times. Makes perfect sense. See, real news is out there if you look.
Top American health officials are strongly opposed, with good reason, to take the more extreme step of banning all travel to the United States from Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, where the epidemic is concentrated, as several prominent Republicans, like Louisiana’s governor, Bobby Jindal, have recommended. That could actually hamper the battle to contain the epidemic abroad — the first line of defense against the disease — in part by leaving Americans who are risking their lives to contain the epidemic stranded in Africa with no way to return home. If volunteer workers can’t return home, they may elect not to go in the first place, thus weakening the fight against the epidemic.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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That was a great article TGT.
Of note, this fellow is currently the Director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Diseases, the most distinguished scholarly institution in infectious diseases in the world.
As a young researcher, who went to help in the first known outbreak in Zaire, where he named the virus, he thought he had actually contracted the disease. What did he do?
And it really would have been stupid to spend two weeks in the horrible isolation tent that had been set up for us scientists for the worst case. So I just stayed alone in my room and waited.
I don't mention that as a condemnation of the man, but rather the type of thinking that goes on in relative youth. A very similar thing happened in the US in '76, when a specimen was sent in for evaluation by the best experts in the country. They treated it in the most casual way imaginable, and actually SNIFFED it. When they realized it was Ebola, and that the protocols called for them to go into isolation, they simply didn't tell anyone, and went home, then waited to see what happened.
I think that the "powers on high" don't quite get that the young people of today....doctors, nurses, patients, may do equally unpredictable things.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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That and the boss fumbling the vial and dropping it on his co workers foot!
Interesting tale of how it got its name too.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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I really do hope this is fear mongering but figured I would post so others have the info if it is for real.
By: Mike Adams (http://www.naturalnews.com/047089_Ebola_pandemic_government_lies_disinformation.html); At every level of media and government, protecting the financial interests of drug companies appears to be far more important than protecting public health. So people aren't told the truth about how Ebola spreads and how they can increase their ability to survive a global pandemic.
Here are five of the biggest lies being spread about Ebola right now. Once you've reviewed the lies, learn the truth at www.BioDefense.com
Lie #1) Ebola won't ever come to the United States
This lie was shattered just this week when the CDC confirmed Ebola in a hospital patient in Dallas, Texas.
Not only has Ebola already spread to America, but a top scientist who used to work for the FDA now says this is only the beginning and that Ebola will spread in America. [1]
As printed in The Extinction Protocol:
"...it appears several people were exposed before the individual was placed in isolation, and it is quite possible that one or more of his contacts will be infected," he added. What's more, he conceded that it was "only a matter of time" that the swift-killing African virus arrived in the U.S.
Lie #2) Ebola is only spread via direct contact with body fluids
This outrageous medical lie may soon cost the lives of millions of innocent people. In truth, Ebola can spread through the air over short distances via aerosols - airborne particles.
Ebola can also spread via contaminated surfaces. When an infected patient makes contact with a surface such as a doorknob or ATM keypad, they may leave behind the Ebola virus which survives for many minutes or hours in the open, depending on environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, etc.) Another person who touches the same surface may then become instantly infected by simply touching their own eyes, nose or mouth.
The ability of Ebola to spread via contaminated surfaces is why victims in Africa have become infected by riding in taxi cabs. This also means any form of public transportation -- airplanes, ambulances, subways -- may harbor the virus and accelerate the spread of an outbreak.
Like all viruses, Ebola is destroyed by sunlight. But it can remain viable for a surprisingly long time in environments where sunlight never reaches -- such as underground subways, which are the perfect breeding grounds for viral transmission.
Lie #3) Don't worry: Health authorities have everything under control
The overarching lie about Ebola that's being repeated by the U.S. government is "Don't worry, we have it under control!"
Of course, the fact that an infected Ebola victim just flew right into the country with Ebola, then walked around the city of Dallas for 10 days while carrying Ebola, utterly belies the false promises of health authorities who claim to have things under control.
In truth, Ebola is completely out of control which is precisely why its sudden appearance in a Dallas hospital surprised nearly everyone. The sobering fact of the matter is that despite all the money being spent on "homeland security," DHS has no way to stop Ebola from walking right into the USA, including on foot from our wide open southern border.
If the U.S. government has everything under control, then why did the government just purchase 160,000 Ebola hazmat suits? Why did Obama just recently sign an executive order authorizing the forced government quarantine of anyone showing symptoms of infectious disease?
While the public can be easily lied to and told everything is under control, behind closed doors at the highest levels of government, everybody knows this pandemic could rapidly become a global killer that no one can stop.
Lie #4) The only defense against Ebola is a vaccine or a pharmaceutical drug
This lie may get millions of people killed if the Ebola outbreak gets worse. In a desperate bid to make sure Ebola generates billions of dollars in profits for vaccine makers and pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, FDA and even the FTC routinely censor truthful information about natural treatments that might hold promise (such as colloidal silver).
Companies that offer extremely beneficial essential oils and colloidal silver products have already been threatened with criminal arrest and prosecution by the FDA. The mainstream media remains complicit in the systematic oppression of natural cures, printing the FDA's propaganda while completely avoiding any balanced reporting that might highlight the extraordinary anti-viral capabilities of many medicinal herbs as I've described in Episode Six of Pandemic Preparedness.
If we really want to stop the spread of this viral pandemic right now, both government and the media should be urging citizens to boost their immune defenses by consuming more nutritious foods, herbal spices, superfoods and anti-viral plants (which include peppermint, basil, rosemary, cinnamon and oregano, just to name a few).
Everyone should be immediately urged to make sure they have sufficient vitamin D circulating in their blood, and those who have low vitamin D -- which includes just about everyone in America today -- should be urged to take vitamin D supplements.
But instead of urging the public to enhance their immune function and boost their natural defenses against Ebola, everyone is ridiculously told to "wash your hands" and wait around for a drug company to introduce an Ebola vaccine.
Lie #5) Ebola came out of nowhere and was a random fluke of nature
The modern-day version of Ebola that's so aggressively circulating today may actually be a bioengineered virus, according to one scientist who wrote a front-page story in Liberia's largest newspaper.
"Ebola is a genetically modified organism (GMO)," declared Dr. Cyril Broderick, Professor of Plant Pathology, in a front-page story published in the Liberian Observer. [2]
He goes on to explain:
[Horowitz] confirmed the existence of an American Military-Medical-Industry that conducts biological weapons tests under the guise of administering vaccinations to control diseases and improve the health of "black Africans overseas."
Further supporting this genetic engineering research claim, the U.S. government patented Ebola in 2010 and now claims intellectual property ownership over all Ebola variants. That patent number is CA2741523A1, viewable at this link.
Read more about the patenting of Ebola and control over its research in this Natural News article.
This means the U.S. government claims all control over Ebola research, too, because any research project involving replication of the virus would violate the government's patent.
In fact, the vastly improved transmission ability of the Ebola strain currently circulating (compared to previous outbreaks in years past) has many people convinced this strain is a "weaponized" variant which either broke through containment protocols at government labs or was intentionally deployed as a population control weapon.
Several U.S. scientists have openly called for global depopulation using genetically engineered bioweapons such as Ebola. Dr. Eric Pianka of the University of Texas at Austin reportedly advocated the use of Ebola to wipe out 90% of the human population, according to Life Site News. [3]
It appears he may soon get his wish. If the current Ebola explosion continues, the global population may be in serious jeopardy and many millions could die.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Excalibur, the dog of Spanish nurse Teresa Romero Ramos who contracted Ebola, lies on the floor in this undated handout photo provided on October 8, 2014. Madrid regional authorities said they have euthanized the nurse's dog. Ebola can multiply inside dogs but does not make them sick
and eventually dies out inside canines. But during those weeks the dogs bodily fluids contain
live ebola virus and could infect humans coming into contact with them.
Nurse Ramos thinks she may have touched her face with contaminated gloves
while caring for a priest suffering from ebola at a Madrid hospital.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 12, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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A Second case of ebola, and first case contracted inside U.S. , preliminarily identified in Dallas. Thus nurse was not among the 48 people identified as the most at risk contacts. One wonders why, since she worked with the original patient when his viral load was at a maximum. What will be the extent of the outbreak inside the U.S. before real common sense proticols, including travel restrictions, are put in place?
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 12, 2014 - 09:15am PT
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Rightwingers like tioga...what a dreary lot. Glued to the Fox 24/7, repeating all the nonsense they hear. Ebola is Obama's fault! Clueless.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 12, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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A nurse that was involved with the Dallas ebola fatality has tested posititve for the virus...
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 12, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Now that's funny, locker.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 12, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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Several U.S. scientists have openly called for global depopulation using genetically engineered bioweapons such as Ebola.
It's the only hope for this planet and everything else living here.
Kill off the people.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 12, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
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You go first.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 12, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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Part of the problem is the term "airborne" that's thrown around. Any virus present in saliva, blood, mucus, etc.. is potentially "airborne". It's more a matter of degrees. More than likely Ebola is airborne in the immediate vicinity of a victim who is alive, sick, and shedding viri attached to particulates spread through sneezing and coughing. How far away? Anyone's best guess. But it's got to be far lower than many other much more contagious viruses such as influenza. We already have proven that in Lagos.
If there aren't a million dead in Lagos already (and there are not), then this isn't the end of the world.
On the other hand, our own CDC has been curiously absent from dealing with the first diagnosed patient in Dallas. After watching the standard ServPro crew power washing the sidewalk where the patient had thrown up (and extremely hot with active viri) I had to wonder what the intent there was. Ignorance only goes so far.
So wash yer hands, don't touch your face, stay off of planes for a bit if possible. Find a bit of sunny rock and chill out. Oh the end is coming but it ain't from this....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 12, 2014 - 10:07pm PT
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Several U.S. scientists have openly called for global depopulation using genetically engineered bioweapons such as Ebola. Dr. Eric Pianka of the University of Texas at Austin reportedly advocated the use of Ebola to wipe out 90% of the human population, according to Life Site News. [3]
These are flat out distortions and lies deliberately manufactured by taking Pianka's statements completely out of context for other agendas. Pianka was simply speaking about nature's own mechanisms for restoring balance to overpopulation by any species. Specifically he was speaking to the notion that it's foolish to believe you can destroy habitat on grand scales driving species extinct at unprecedented rates and expect those species' pathogen load will simply lay down and die with them or there won't be other microbiological compensating events.
We are among the most abundant mammalian feedstocks on the planet and we deliver ourselves. From a microbiological perspective it is hubris and delusion of the first order to think there isn't a correction in the works at some point.
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Guernica
climber
dark places
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Oct 12, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
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I'm with Elon Musk on this one... we need to establish ourselves in space or it's game over, one way or another.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 12, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
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But instead of urging the public to enhance their immune function and boost their natural defenses against Ebola, everyone is ridiculously told to "wash your hands" and wait around for a drug company to introduce an Ebola vaccine.
Thank God! So good to know that I can abandon all that silly handwashing I've had do do between patients for decades....... All those children, foolishly taught to wash their hands before meals.
yep, I'm so interested in seeing those studies that demonstrate the protective effect of vitamins in protecting against Ebola.
I believe this falls into the category of "natural selection".
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Oct 12, 2014 - 11:24pm PT
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There is no doubt the media is CONTROLLED. There are six corporations involved.
Read The Israel Lobby by Mearsheimer and Walt as it outlines just how powerful AIPAC is.
The MSM is involved in deceit, deception, lies, and propaganda. Goebbels would be impressed!
The populace is subject to MIND CONTROL. It is not like the movie entitled The Manchurian Candidate. It is not a psychotic drug with robotic behaviour. Rather it is thinking in a particular way so that the citizens think no other way.
It leads to GROUP THINK in which many have give up common sense and thinking for one's self. It is necessary to use good critical thinking skills to determine just what is happening in our world.
Many don't know that they don't know AND don't seem to want to know otherwise!! It will be to their chagrin eventually. The Ebola pandemic may cause many to try untested vaccinations in hoping to survive when colloidal silver and vitamin C (gel caps) would be sufficient to over come this dreadful situation.
Read The Hot Zone to gain some understanding about Ebola. Stephen King though the story was the most horrifying/terrifying thing he had ever read.
Presenting information to counteract the media and we are confronted by COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. Many find it unacceptable because they have been brainwashed!
Many ideas have been presented through the years only to be rejected OUTRIGHT. Over time it eventually becomes accepted. Later many wonder why it was never accepted in the first place. Galileo is an example of this.
Many have the notion that the Gates Foundation is doing much good in our world. It is not. It is testing many young people in India and has since come under much scrutiny for bringing agony, pain and suffering to many. Some would consider this to be a crime against humanity. Nobody in North America is aware of the awful things happening to the young in India. Read health sites relating to this.
It is critical that ALL OF US become INFORMED about what is really going on in our world. There is indeed a dark evil sinister group at work in our world to do great harm to many.
See the article by Dr. Cyril Broderick about Ebola. He was at one time a professor at the University of Liberia.
Find the TRUTH as it is important.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39870.htm
Bought Journalism: How Politicians, Intelligence and High Finance Control Mass Media
Dr Udo Ulfkotte, German journalist speaks out.
Posted October 05, 2014
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2014 - 06:26am PT
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Complete and utter rubbish. Vitamin D and colloidal silver? Right. What is happening is there is are supplement marketers who think this is the new gold rush and are whipping up innuendo, pseudo-science, and just plain 19th century tar-oil hucksterism to new heights for a buck.
And Dr. Cyril Broderick? He is a associate professor of plant physiology and neither he nor his university have any experience or involvement with Ebola. Pure, unadulterated bullsh#t. Crikey, dudes, get the friggin' pitchforks out of the pond.
I'm with Elon Musk on this one... we need to establish ourselves in space or it's game over, one way or another.
Technological wishful thinking. We are composite organisms where only 1/10th of our total cell count is 'human'. We are wholly a product of, and inseparable from, this planet's current ecology. Want to know how 'establish ourselves in space' will turn out on the scale of decades away from the Earth? Load up your refrigerator with food, unplug it, and come back in a month and you'll have a pretty good simulation of the potential of long term space habitation. Hell, we can't even hermetically seal a box on Earth with people inside for more than a few days before the whole thing goes tits up.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 09:38am PT
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The article said a breach in protocol was the cause of infection...She probably had a depressed immune system and hadn't been popping her vitamin D supplements or coilodial silver...? I prefer a wheat grass enema to stimulate my system...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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The wife couldn't sleep last night and got up and rather unadvisedly read
this thread. First thing she said this morning was
"are those guys for real?"
Of course she wasn't referring to Doctor RJ.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 13, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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So, what did you tell her then, Reilly?
Are we all just a conspiracy theory waiting to reveal itself?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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Mouse, she wanted me to post the job opening for an infectious disease specialist
at her hospital but when I asked her if they cared whether applicants could
communicate like adults she said, "Never mind."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 10:06am PT
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Reilly...Most people can't and won't recognize genious...Your wife is the exception...Keeping it real..rj
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
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Say, Ken, how many doses of vaccine have you administered in your life, seeing as a child today requires some 40 doses of some 14 vaccines vaccines, by age 16?
I'm sure it is in the hundreds of thousands. I can't recall a single serious reaction.
I've also taken care of many adult patients who had post-polio syndrome, which varied from minor to heartbreaking. Quite unusual as I reached the end of my practice.
But I never saw a case of polio.
I never saw a case of tetanus. Now there is an interesting bug. Found around us everywhere. Very few infections occur in the US, BUT have a high fatality rate like Ebola, with all our technology (42% over the age of 50)
In 1947 through 1949, before widespread use of the vaccine, an average of 580 cases of tetanus and an average of 472 deaths from tetanus were reported
Unlike Ebola, there is no herd immunity for tetanus.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 13, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
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Or take Rabies. Effectively a 100% mortality rate, much worse than Ebola. And the symptoms are even more horrifying.
If you're bitten by a rabies infected animal and you become symptomatic, you're dead. There is only 1 recorded case of survival (oddly enough, an MD I work with was on that team).
But if you get the vaccine before symptoms appear, pretty much no worries. You will live and be fine.
But I'm sure that's just a bunch of media driven conspiracy.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Oct 13, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
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stevep,
My brother died from rabies. He was bitten by a brown bat, but didn't come down with symptoms until years later. Apparently the virus can remain dormant in your system for years, in rare cases.
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John M
climber
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Oct 13, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
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Death and Texas. All ya gotta worry 'bout. :0)
now that was funny.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
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and now, another patient.....
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 13, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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I read a great piece today about how anti-government positions are crippling the nation's ability to respond to a disease like ebola.
Also highlights the ineptness of Texas state public health agencies and how they handled patient 0 and how the containment was completely botched. Texas says handling that scene and their family members are the responsibility of the family. Then there was no cleanup for days, the family was kept quarantined in an apartment potentially swimming with the virus. When a cleanup team did arrive they brought no bleach to kill the virus, but they did have a power washer to potentially spread it everywhere. Seems like a very Texas-like reaction. Use a power washer when buckets, brushes and bleach and a large team with appropriate supervision are the appropriate solution.
It's all good, Cruz and Governor "Oops" are on it!
I read "The Hot Zone" per someone on this forums suggestion earlier this summer. Comparing how the virus is treated in that book, which took place in the 1980s, and modern day Texas, Texas is looking about as sophisticated as Western Africa. Actually, I don't think that state deserves that much credit.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 06:10pm PT
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Sleep Apnea is still legal in Texas...
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Oct 13, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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^^^^like warding off vampires
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 13, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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put on your mask.
Just make sure you back it up with a garlic necklace.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 14, 2014 - 07:43am PT
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Sweet Baby Jeezus tioga, try posting something besides utter bullshit all the time.....
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 14, 2014 - 07:52am PT
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^^^^
Man, you gotta turn off The Fox and get a life.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 14, 2014 - 08:05am PT
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 14, 2014 - 08:56am PT
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Regarding Ebola, from the WHO yesterday, they predict 10,000 more cases short term at the same time the fatality rate has gone up from about 50% to 70%.
Also on their website they have backed off on the 21 day incubation period. Now it says 1 to 21 days. They're not talking about mutation and air-born transmission yet but keep a close eye on their site.
Yesterday a spokesperson for WHO stated that Ebola has the potential to be the worst pandemic in the last 100 years (that would include the 1918 flu.)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 14, 2014 - 09:44am PT
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^^^That's why airline stocks tanked yesterday.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 14, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 14, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oct 14, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
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Republican gunNuts make sure there's no Surgeon General...
This weekend, Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) called for President Obama to nominate an Ebola "czar" to coordinate the US response to the virus.
There's a problem with that idea, though: We already have one.
Or, to put it more accurately, we already should. The Surgeon General, aka "the nation's doctor," is tasked with commanding the country's more than 6,800 federal public health researchers, nurses, and investigators, as well as serving as a key liaison to the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and global health groups like the World Health Organization. The man Obama nominated for the job back in November never got confirmed, however, thanks to controversy over his position on gun violence.
The Surgeon General would oversee the US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, which include some of the people sent in to track down and contain dangerous viruses like Ebola. He or she would also work closely with US public health agencies like the NIH and the CDC to clearly communicate to the public and to healthcare workers information about new and emerging public health issues, such as Ebola. His or her role would be complex, but critical: Prepare healthcare workers to treat people with the virus while simultaneously educating the public to quell irrational fears about its spread.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/no-surgeon-general-during-ebola-in-us-2014-10#ixzz3GAwEKAUe
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 16, 2014 - 09:43am PT
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 11:20am PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 17, 2014 - 11:22am PT
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Tarzan...You're still on vacation...Or at least your brain is...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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Treating ebola patients is like free soloing - there is no effective performance below 100% and 'good enough' just doesn't cut it.
But a lot of this is a matter of the post-WWII hubris and naivety for having 'conquered' the world, beat the Great Depression, gone to the Moon, and secured our role as a superpower we got a bit ahead of ourselves on the whole 'masters of the universe' thing:
1969, Surgeon General William Stewart, testifying before Congress, said that we could "close the book on infectious disease."
The result being, particularly with TB and Polio behind us, that we could and did defund and dismantle the public health system we'd built up during those years. And in the years following until today healthcare turned almost completely away from public health to private corporate employee health so today we and our government have little to no ability to directly influence, steer, realign, or commandeer today's health system in response to an emergency like this.
Likely we'll have to designate regional ebola centers rather than expect all hospitals to come up to speed on the protocols and that burden is more than likely to fall on public hospitals as the private systems will try to avoid the role at all cost. The issue there is the public hospitals like say, Cook County in Chicago, are already stressed to the breaking point let alone drop something like this into them.
Bottom line is that ebola really doesn't really mix well with a private, profit-driven healthcare system that makes it's money treating overweight corporate employees for heart disease, diabetes, and sleep apnea.
And it's also really funny to hear the far-right, libertarians and Tea Party folks in anguish about Obama and government's response to ebola - I thought they were all for 'smaller government' due to the fact individuals and businesses are just SO much more effective. But no, they suddenly want government to do this and government to do that after decades of gutting the very systems they now want an effective response from. Sigh...
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
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Just saw that Mexico and Belize would not let that Ebola Cruise ship
make a port call. 5000 tourists prevented from visiting the
shops on shore is a major economic hit to those economies.
Its cruising back to to the USA now.
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John M
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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But no, they suddenly want government to do this and government to do that after decades of gutting the very systems they now want an effective response from. Sigh…
I would love to hear a reasoned response to this.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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To start with the constitutionally mandated duty to protect the borders.
If the feds had been doing their job the first patient would have never got here. (and we wouldn't be dealing with dead children from enterovirus that came with the recent invasion of illegals)
If the CDC had been working on DESEASE CONTROL instead of 350k grants to study rabbit massage, bike path studies and all the other non germane activities that now constitute most of their efforts and consume most of their budget, maybe they'd be a bit more prepared and not making complete fools of themselves.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
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Hey tgt, why don't you build a wall around yourself for protection since you abhor government intervention. Besides, some of us aren't afraid of the world, so don't fence us in.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
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You can't "seal" borders like all the gun-fetishists think you can and if you did these freaks would cry about the heavy hand of the government and impinging on their freedom or some other lame ass $hit.
Many people screeching about the borders and them being the source of all our problems believe the answer to very complex questions are really very simple. An example being, that "sealing the borders" will keep infectious disease out, which is applying a superficial, one dimensional solution to a much more complex problem. They are perpetually stuck in Mayberry while the rest of the world is dealing with reality.
The upside is that in some recent instances, the Ann Rander-es have had the opportunity to apply their Mayberry-esque ideas and the results are now playing out in the open.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/usa-kansas-ratings-idUSL2N0QC1MO20140806
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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Works for them!
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/africa-stems-ebola-border-closings-luck-26249603
Officials credit tighter border controls, good patient-tracking and other medical practices, and just plain luck with keeping Ebola confined mostly to Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea since the outbreak was first identified nearly seven months ago.
Border closings may also be helping halt the spread of Ebola.
Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau and Senegal, all of which share borders with at least one of the three most affected countries, have closed those borders.
The disease continues to ravage Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone, overwhelming their health systems.
If this disease had originated in Norway there would have been a travel ban nine months ago.
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John M
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
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If the CDC had been working on DESEASE CONTROL instead of 350k grants to study rabbit massage, bike path studies and all the other non germane activities that now constitute most of their efforts and consume most of their budget, maybe they'd be a bit more prepared and not making complete fools of themselves.
If this is what you wanted, then why didn't your party, the republicans, do anything like this when it was in charge? Instead of gutting it with budget cuts.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
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Read the Post article!
On many levels, this line of attack is absurd.
Obama’s Republican predecessor oversaw big increases in public-health sector spending, and both Democrats and Republicans in recent years have broadly supported efforts to rein in federal spending. Sequestration resulted from a bipartisan agreement. In some years, Congress has allocated more money for NIH and CDC than the Obama administration requested. Meanwhile, contrary to the suggestion of the DCCC ad, there never was a specific vote on funding to prevent Ebola.
There’s no doubt that spending has been cut, or at least failed to keep pace with inflation, but the fingerprints of both parties are on the knives. This blame game earns Four Pinocchios.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
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It's now airborn, weaponized and more than 5000 are infected.
Marshall law coming and all supertopo politards are going to be sent to FEMA camps ......
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
|
Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau and Senegal, all of which share borders with at least one of the three most affected countries, have closed those borders.
This probably works where border crossings consist of a handful of dirt roads made for ox drawn carts instead of thousands of entry points with a very international population. This is NOT Mayberry.
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BBA
climber
OF
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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The weaponization will occur when the radical islam guys infect a suicide ebola bomber who comes to the valley and vomits on the death slab fixed lines.
The FEMA camp will be set up near Lone Pine where the Japanese Americans were sent in WWII. The camp will have better food than the concessionaire in the valley, and climbers will flock to it after they see it has a good bouldering in the Alabama Hills.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 05:59pm PT
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Hmm,
Don't they still stamp visas?
How hard is it to say if you have a visa from or a stamp on your visa from a country with an outbreak there's a different line for you and you can't just get on the plane.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
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Doubt if it'll hit, say, India. I mean, who from West Africa would want to go there?
Of course, if someone does...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:05pm PT
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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To start with the constitutionally mandated duty to protect the borders.
Two ridiculous statements in one post. Bravo.
First this has nothing to do with 'protect the borders' which has become an absolutely moronic meme of the right. It has to do with disease control and in today's world borders really aren't much more relevant in disease control than with money coming and going across our borders 24x7. Do you really think constitutional fundamentalists, were they in power, could 'protect the [southern] border' from Chikungunya? Dengue? Malaria? Where's the border outcry for them?
Hell, it's the same sort of ludicrous mindset that's driving the anti-govt/anti-vaccine idiots and causing a far worse public health crisis across the nation than ebola. And you want to 'protect the borders' from ebola? By any rational, common sense definition that would have meant a massive, instant, joint EU/US response in West Africa from day one, but all the neocon adventurism has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth for all things international, particularly the right and libertarians who are in hysterics over our troops in Africa setting up treatment centers.
Seriously? Bottom line? If your response to emerging and infectious diseases happens at 'the borders', you are already so f*#ked as to be laughable. It's why we fund flu monitoring in Southern China.
If anything, the most unfortunate aspect of all this is that ebola made it's landfall in the South where it's rapidly been taking advantage of generally more laid-back and 'inexact' attitudes and cultural norms.
If the feds had been doing their job the first patient would have never got here. (and we wouldn't be dealing with dead children from enterovirus that came with the recent invasion of illegals)
Enterovirus D68 was first identified in '62 in Cali and the first deaths in this outbreak were children in Michigan and New Jersey and neither case was immigration related.
But then your comment is no surprise. This is exactly the sort of conflating inflammatory drama and fear-mongering which represents the very lifeblood right's political strategy over the past forty years. And how convenient that it breaks just when fear of blacks, gays and immigrants have lost their political currency outside of an insular, circle-jerk world of the right. Hell, maybe someone should check to make sure it wasn't Karl Rove who bought Thomas Duncan's ticket to Dallas.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:12pm PT
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Thank you. You put it much better than I possibly could.
Infectious diseases don't care about lines on maps.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
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Retarded comments about "big government" and "small government"...
Coming from someone who actually reads infowars - you know, the folks who pride themselves on their attempts to lower the American IQ a little bit every single day - I'll take that as a compliment.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:18pm PT
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And the heroes deliviering "massive response" in Africa would be you and your family, I assume?
No, that would you and the other morons who don't think it's the government's job to do these sorts of things or that you and your armed posse can do things so much better. Well, boys, here's your chance to really 'protect the borders' - suit up and head for Africa.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
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What will be the extent of the outbreak inside the U.S. before real common sense proticols, including travel restrictions, are put in place?
Excellent question! Weren't we discussing this a week ago? There are still no comprehensive travel bans/restrictions in place . . . seems like this should be the first defense in the containment "effort".
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2014 - 06:26pm PT
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Excellent question! Weren't we discussing this a week ago? There are still no comprehensive travel bans/restrictions in place . . . seems like this should be the first defense in the containment "effort".
You'd have to shut down ALL international flights. Period. Anything less would be ineffective. Ain't going to happen and, again, that isn't where or how you fight this kind of fight.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
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No, that would you and the other morons who don't think it's the government's job to do these sorts of things or that you and your armed posse can do things so much better. Well, boys, here's your chance to really 'protect the borders' - suit up and head for Africa.
and.....???
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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john hansen
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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It seems to me they should come up with a training system where they contaminate the suits with a substance that glows in ultraviolet light.
So after they remove the protective gear they can spot if there is any contamination after removal of the PPE
This would help nurses and doctors learn the correct steps in gearing up and then maybe more importantly , removing the gear with out being exposed.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
|
Can't verify the numbers, but reported as of 8-21-2014
The global death toll from Ebola stands at 1,229, with the bulk of cases in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone.
10-17-2014
the months-long outbreak in West Africa, where all but a few of the roughly 9,200 reported Ebola cases and 4,555 deaths have occurred, according to the World Health Organization.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:38pm PT
|
American will be hosed.
ISIS will spread ebola with crop dusters.
Americans will all become zombies.
The forecast is on Halloweeny .....
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
|
Yes
If man wants fly he should become a bird or house fly.
Instead man made flying sardine cans.
This is cave man technology.
Yogis can instantly fly anywhere and to other planets.
Stupid modern scientists can't fly anywhere worth the sh!t in their sardine machines ....
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
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DO THE MATH (IF YOU CAN).
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john hansen
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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Perhaps they should put a hundred Ebola corpse's thru a tree shedder and rain it down on ISIS.
Happy Halloween.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 17, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
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Danke, Herr Braun. You seem to always report on things that I've only sometimes heard of.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
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We are all Gonna Dieeee!!!!
ISIS, Guns, Ebola, Drought, Fruit Flies, Climate Change, Gays, Illegal immigrants, family values, God, no god, gangbangers, killer cops, rap bolters, gym climbers, slack liners, Everest conga lines, tsunamis, hurricanes, wild fires, russians, north koreans, near earth objects, solar flares, zombies, soccer...
Our whole way of life is coming to an end!!!
F*ck it, I am going climbing
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
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StahlBro's got it .......
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perswig
climber
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:20am PT
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Anyone who's done drills in NBC gear knows a bit how healthcare workers must suffer enormous fatigue and concentration loss when caring for these patients. I've sweated through four-hour ortho surgery in standard sterile garb in August that pales in comparison to even brief Ft. Hood drills BITD.
Much, much respect and thanks to those physicians, critical-care nurses, and staff who continue to 'free-solo', as healyje states.
I can barely imagine the stress.
Dale
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:28am PT
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Perhaps they should invest in watercooled underwear.
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crøtch
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2014 - 09:49am PT
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It seems to me they should come up with a training system where they contaminate the suits with a substance that glows in ultraviolet light.
So after they remove the protective gear they can spot if there is any contamination after removal of the PPE
Glogerm was designed for this. We used to use it at work to test biocontainment but we've now moved on to other micrometer sized fluorescent particles which are more easily suspended in the solutions we routinely handle.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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Something is left out of the discussions too about these brave men and women who are knowingly collecting and treating dying Ebola-infected victims in third-word hellholes ....
They are truly real f'ing heroes. I sure as Hell wouldn't do it.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
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F*ck it, I am going climbing
I hope your not going to wear lycra.
I don't miss the end of that life style.
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john hansen
climber
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Oct 18, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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Ok, I know I am nuts , but what if you could create an "Ebola Box".
A small isolation chamber about 5 feet by 5 feet and 8 or ten feet long.
It would have a bed inside with a bedpan like device and a place to vomit in that would store the fluids.
Access to the victim would only be through heavy duty ports like in a chem lab where you reach through with thick gloves and a protective sleeve to administer IV's and such. A constant flow of air could be vented through a filter system.
That way the nurses and doctors would not have to suit up but would still be protected.
If the victim dies, the whole unit with the victim is incinerated. If they live, They come out after they are symptomatic and are decontaminated, then the whole box is incinerated.
They could come out of the box on their own into a de- contamination area with no help or contact with medical personal.
This would eliminate contact between medical personal and the contagion.
What do you doctors think?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Oct 18, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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Why not do nothing? One person has died from Ebola in the U.S., and about 10,000 people total. Obviously it is something that needs to be dealt with but most of the western world that is worried about Ebola would experience longer lives if they drove with more care, exercised and ate better.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
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It's voting season and there wasn't enough fear to keep the sheeple at home. Be very scared.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 18, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
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You're twice as likely to be killed by O.J.Simpson than you are by Ebola, at least here in the U.S.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 18, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
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What do you doctors think?
I takes on the aspects of torture.
Think of being confined in a coffin. Literally, as you describe it.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 19, 2014 - 07:49am PT
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Rofl.....Ebola is nothing to be concerned about?
Let's discuss this epidemic two years from now. Unless a vaccine is found, large amounts of crow will be consumed.
....two years from now.
People will have forgotten about it. Unless it mutates into an airborne pathogen. (if it does that I'm heading to the hills and living off the land till half the human population is gone) This virus needs to mutate to become really successful. Either it needs to stop killing it's hosts or it needs to become much more transmissible. It is not a very fit organism for its own survival in Human populations.
The key is to shut it down in Africa. Whatever resources are needed for that should have been mobilized months ago but still can be done effectively. I'm very confident that will occur.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 19, 2014 - 08:03am PT
|
The International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses currently recognizes five ebolaviruses: Ebola virus (EBOV), Sudan virus (SUDV), Reston virus (RESTV), Taï Forest virus (TAFV), and Bundibugyo virus (BDBV). Four of these viruses (excepting RESTV) are known to cause Ebola virus disease in humans.
Incidents of ebola infection date back to (at least) 1976 (Zaire, UK, Sudan).
Year, country, virus, human infections, human deaths, CFR, description).
1976
Sudan
SUDV
284
151
53%
Occurred in Nzara, Maridi and surrounding areas between June and November 1976.[11] Mainly spread by personal contact in hospitals. Many medical care personnel were infected.[12]
1976
Zaire
EBOV
318
280
88%
Main article: Yambuku § Ebola outbreak
Occurred in Yambuku and surrounding areas in August. Spread by personal contact and use of contaminated needles and syringes in hospitals/clinics.[13]
1976
United Kingdom
SUDV or EBOV[note 1]
1
0
N/A
Laboratory infection by accidental stick of contaminated needle.[14][15]
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dirtbag
climber
|
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Oct 19, 2014 - 08:28am PT
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It is something to be concerned about in West Africa.
Here, I'm more concerned with getting hit by a car.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
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Oct 19, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
|
Same here!
Did 56 miles on the bike today and almost got sideswiped twice going thru Pico Rivera.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 19, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
|
TGT....Evidently those Pico Riverians have been reading your posts..?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
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Oct 19, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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Yeah,
I'll wear the Mexican flag jersey instead of the Stars and Stripes next time.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 19, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
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I should have put lycra on my list...be afraid, very afraid
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:46am PT
|
Does the United States government own the patent on Ebola?
This plot gets even more interesting when you realize that a patent on Ebola was filed in 2009 by the United States government.
See:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20120251502
Assignment April 25, 2011
Owner name: THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Free format text: ASSIGNMENT OF ASSIGNORS INTEREST;ASSIGNORS:TOWNER, JONATHAN S.;NICHOL, STUART T.;COMER, JAMES A.;AND OTHERS;SIGNING DATES FROM 20110415 TO 20110425;REEL/FRAME:026177/0586
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:53am PT
|
Shouldn't we just let market forces deal with the Ebola?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 08:02am PT
|
There is a black [pun?] market for survirors' blood in Africa.
The epidemic is killing up to 70 percent of those who get sick, but the thousands who have survived have blood teeming with antibodies that protect them against infection again.
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dirtbag
climber
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 08:04am PT
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Gary nails it.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
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Oct 21, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
* Note that there's no evidence that Rob Klain ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. He did work for Al Gore once though.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
|
Sketch..That's the chart you used on the climate change thread....idiot..
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
|
Statement by RN’s at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital as provided to National Nurses United
National Nurses United, 10/15/14
This is an inside story from some registered nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas who have familiarity with what occurred at the hospital following the positive Ebola infection of first the late Thomas Eric Duncan and then a registered nurse who cared for him Nina Pham.
The RNs contacted National Nurses United out of frustration with a lack of training and preparation. They are choosing to remain anonymous out of fear of retaliation.
The RNs who have spoken to us from Texas Health Presbyterian are listening in on this call and this is their report based on their experiences and what other nurses are sharing with them. When we have finished with our statement, we will have time for several questions. The nurses will have the opportunity to respond to your questions via email that they will send to us, that we will read to you.
We are not identifying the nurses for their protection, but they work at Texas Health Presbyterian and have knowledge of what occurred at the hospital.
They feel a duty to speak out about the concerns that they say are shared by many in the hospital who are concerned about the protocols that were followed and what they view were confusion and frequently changing policies and protocols that are of concern to them, and to our organization as well.
When Thomas Eric Duncan first came into the hospital, he arrived with an elevated temperature, but was sent home.
On his return visit to the hospital, he was brought in by ambulance under the suspicion from him and family members that he may have Ebola.
Mr. Duncan was left for several hours, not in isolation, in an area where other patients were present.
No one knew what the protocols were or were able to verify what kind of personal protective equipment should be worn and there was no training.
Subsequently a nurse supervisor arrived and demanded that he be moved to an isolation unit– yet faced resistance from other hospital authorities.
Lab specimens from Mr. Duncan were sent through the hospital tube system without being specially sealed and hand delivered. The result is that the entire tube system by which all lab specimens are sent was potentially contaminated.
There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system. The nurses were asked to call the Infectious Disease Department. The Infectious Disease Department did not have clear policies to provide either.
Initial nurses who interacted with Mr. Duncan nurses wore a non-impermeable gown front and back, three pairs of gloves, with no taping around wrists, surgical masks, with the option of N-95s, and face shields. Some supervisors said that even the N-95 masks were not necessary.
The suits they were given still exposed their necks, the part closest to their face and mouth. They had suits with booties and hoods, three pairs of gloves, no tape.
For their necks, nurses had to use medical tape, that is not impermeable and has permeable seams, to wrap around their necks in order to protect themselves, and had to put on the tape and take it off on their own.
Nurses had to interact with Mr. Duncan with whatever protective equipment was available, at a time when he had copious amounts of diarrhea and vomiting which produces a lot of contagious fluids.
Hospital officials allowed nurses who had interacted with Mr. Duncan to then continue normal patient care duties, taking care of other patients, even though they had not had the proper personal protective equipment while caring for Mr. Duncan.
Patients who may have been exposed were one day kept in strict isolation units. On the next day were ordered to be transferred out of strict isolation into areas where there were other patients, even those with low-grade fevers who could potentially be contagious.
Were protocols breached? The nurses say there were no protocols.
Some hospital personnel were coming in and out of those isolation areas in the Emergency Department without having worn the proper protective equipment.
CDC officials who are in the hospital and Infectious Disease personnel have not kept hallways clean; they were going back and forth between the Isolation Pod and back into the hallways that were not properly cleaned, even after CDC, infectious control personnel, and doctors who exited into those hallways after being in the isolation pods.
Advance preparation
Advance preparation that had been done by the hospital primarily consisted of emailing us about one optional lecture/seminar on Ebola. There was no mandate for nurses to attend trainings, or what nurses had to do in the event of the arrival of a patient with Ebola-like symptoms.
This is a very large hospital. To be effective, any classes would have to offered repeatedly, covering all times when nurses work; instead this was treated like the hundreds of other seminars that are routinely offered to staff.
There was no advance hands-on training on the use of personal protective equipment for Ebola. No training on what symptoms to look for. No training on what questions to ask.
Even when some trainings did occur, after Mr. Duncan had tested positive for Ebola, they were limited, and they did not include having every nurse in the training practicing the proper way to don and doff, put on and take off, the appropriate personal protective equipment to assure that they would not be infected or spread an infection to anyone else.
Guidelines have now been changed, but it is not clear what version Nina Pham had available.
The hospital later said that their guidelines had changed and that the nurses needed to adhere to them. What has caused confusion is that the guidelines were constantly changing. It was later asked which guidelines should we follow? The message to the nurses was it’s up to you.
It is not up to the nurses to be setting the policy, nurses say, in the face of such a virulent disease. They needed to be trained optimally and correctly in how to deal with Ebola and the proper PPE doffing, as well as how to dispose of the waste.
In summary, the nurses state there have been no policies in cleaning or bleaching the premises without housekeeping services. There was no one to pick up hazardous waste as it piled to the ceiling. They did not have access to proper supplies and observed the Infectious Disease Department and CDC themselves violate basic principles of infection control, including cross contaminating between patients. In the end, the nurses strongly feel unsupported, unprepared, lied to, and deserted to handle the situation on their own.
We want our facility to be recognized as a leader in responding to this crisis. We also want to recognize the other nurses as heroes who put their lives on the line for their patients every day when they walk in the door.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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How afraid are you of the Flu?
Why not?
It will kill 50,000 people this year.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
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8 new reported ebola cases in NY
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
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^not
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
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It's funny living in Yosemite. There are virus warnings everywhere. Plus, the local trailhead has a Mountain Lion warning and there are bear warnings everywhere. Another wawona trailhead has a Hanta Virus warning, and in Tuolumne Lodge they also warn you prominently to wash your hands to avoid norovirus.
Valley Fever is a trip as well, gnarly fungus in the air in the western states.
Plenty to worry about besides Ebola
Peace
Karl
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
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Doctor Spencer confirmed positive for ebola in New York city today.
When he had 103F temp and diarrhea this morning he went to hospital
and got tested.
The bad news is he went to two(2) bowling allies last night
to bowl. Does he have his own bowling ball of did he, like most
people, test the finger hole size of several different balls
until he found one he liked? And unknowingly smear live ebola
into the holes for the next person to come along and touch?
And the ball he used to play? The Ebola-ball. Who touched it next?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 24, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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sorry sketchy...forgot the smily face symbol...rj
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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Heroes to everybody excerpt for Jesse Jackson. Jackson said those who cared for the guy who died are racists.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:51am PT
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Proving that the men in white coats beat Karma every time..
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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I'm glad Ebola does not spread as fast as Fearbola.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Oct 24, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
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That be true ^^^^^^
When he had 103F
Actually and factually his temperature was 100.3F
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 24, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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Jackson said those who cared for the guy who died are racists.
Said Rush Limbaugh?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 24, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
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Hufpo!
Mr. Jackson echoed similar sentiments about privilege in a Tuesday blog entry for The Huffington Post.
“What role did [Duncan‘s] lack of privilege play in the treatment he received? He is being treated as a criminal rather than as a patient,” he wrote. “As followers of Jesus, we are called to work for the day when those with privilege, most often white people, have greater access to better medical care than those whom Jesus calls ‘the least of our sisters and brothers.’”
Texas Health Resources spokesperson Candace White issued a statement that said Duncan “was treated the way any other patient would have been treated, regardless of nationality or ability to pay for care. We have a long history of treating a multicultural community in this area,” the CBS affiliate reported.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 24, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
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And how does that translate into
Jackson said those who cared for the guy who died are racists.
At a news conference following the vigil, Jackson was asked if he thought there was an issue of racism at play.
"I don't want to say that, only because that could become the headline," he said. "Whether you are white in Atlanta or whether you are white in Nebraska or black in Dallas — we know there's different treatment among blacks in this country."
But his tone had changed since the morning. Before he left the city, Jackson spoke highly of Duncan's care.
"I think they've done a marvelous recovery, and we want to embrace the hospital staff and work with them on his recovery," he said.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Oct 27, 2014 - 09:18am PT
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The Governors of my state and an adjacent state, also were made to see the light this w/e.
They'd wanted a quarantine period for West African arrivals.
So it turns out, Medical professionals seemingly routinely, fly there for a relatively short stint. Like a couple or three weeks. A 21 day quarantine period, would make that less appealing and consequently fewer Medical Professionals would go.
I would've expected they'd be there for longer. But I admire them for doing it.
Have to see how it will turn out. All the good work done over there, could be undone by spreading the disease to new areas.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 27, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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This is one of those situations where the "Stop it over there before it comes over here" mantra really is true. Until the Ebola outbreak is stopped in Africa it will continue to show up everywhere else from time to time. The US and most industrial nations can easily contain any cases they get but it will kill a few here and there.
These nurses and Doctors that go to Africa are true heroes doing as much or arguably more to protect American lives than any battalion of Marines.
Uneducated political hacks making life and death medical decisions is a pathetic reality.
Our heroes deserve to be treated properly and not just a poorly executed blanket quarantine for no reason.
Occasionally quarantine is warranted and in those cases they should be treated well and perhaps reimbursed for time lost.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 27, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
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Jeez TomCochrane, get a life. Try to read what they actually did. Do you think if their main goal was developing bioweapons that they would publish the research?
First of all, airborne and aerosol transmission are not the same. Airborne means microscopic particles that can be borne a long way on normal air currents. Aerosol means larger droplets propelled by force (sneeze, projectile vomit). The govt already knows this and has said aerosol transmission is possible if the individual is symptomatic.
The reason they know this is research of the type you reference. These sort of studies are done because it is helpful to know how diseases can be transmitted the next time one pops up.
And yes, sometimes, the results of such studies can be sometimes be used as base information in possible development of bioweapons. This is a source of on-going discussion and ethical debate in the research community. Not some sort of secret.
Edit: I see he deleted his post while I was writing this one. Hopefully that means he thought better of it.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 28, 2014 - 08:38am PT
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More top experts including the prestigious NE Journal of Medicine criticize states quarantine policies.
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/28/top_medical_journal_calls_out_christie_for_unfair_and_unwise_ebola_quarantine/
“The governors’ action is like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer: it gets the job done but overall is more destructive than beneficial.”
My opinion. Serious life and death questions related to proper governance should not be made due to political winds. The preponderance of evidence and expert advice suggests these policies do more harm than good.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Oct 28, 2014 - 10:17am PT
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More top experts including the prestigious NE Journal of Medicine criticize states quarantine policies.
So far the medical experts have not done a good job with Ebola, one should regard anything the so called expert say/write with a very critical eye. 1000’s of people die every year in US hospitals from medical mistakes. Drug resistant bacteria are rampant and antibiotics are given out like candy. The first Ebola patient in the US was sent home from an ER with antibiotics, (wonder what bacteria that doctor thought he/she was treating?), two health care workers treating a patient with Ebola following guidelines of “contact isolation” were infected. Western medical workers in Africa got anti Ebola drugs, but because of limited supply there is none for locals. Ebola is not new, what is new is that we are now treating those infected with Ebola in modern ICU's. Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 to 21 days after exposure to Ebola, but the average is eight to 10 days. Ebola is a very serious disease and should be treated as such. Death rates in outbreaks of Ebola infection have ranged from 25 to 90 percent.
Quarantine policies may be reactionary, but the medical community in the US at times appears to be throwing rocks from a glass house.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 28, 2014 - 10:58am PT
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Actually, I'd say we've done a decent job. We've had what, 6 or 7 Americans infected. Only one has died.
Two health care workers here got it while treating the one who died. It sounds like they both saw him when he was very symptomatic and they might had had less than ideal containment clothing and procedures. But neither of them died, nor did they transmit it to anyone. Nor, in fact, did the person who died transmit it to anyone in his group of friends and family, who were in very close contact with him for a long period of time.
So here we have a disease that is only transmissible when a person is very symptomatic and sick. Also, though we only have a small sample size at present, it appears the mortality rate for this strain is not very high when treated with the high-level of supportive care we have here in the US.
While this doesn't mean we don't have a big problem in those three countries in West Africa, it also doesn't mean we should be running around panicking in the US.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 28, 2014 - 11:00am PT
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 28, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Being married to KK might be worse than ebola. Perhaps we should quarantine all people exposed to her?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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They can discuss all they want but it won't work as a weapon in natural form. It is not transmissible enough to be a widespread threat in non-tropical advanced industrial societies.
Trying to make it a weapon would requires several thousands of hours of work at least in a very sophisticated lab. The work would very difficult physically, logistically and technically. Even then it would not be likely to succeed. Possible ...maaaaybe.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The key problem is that whatever measures one took to make the virus more transmissible would very likely change it's ability to target endothelial cells. Endothelial cell targeting is the reason Ebola is so deadly.
The endothelium is the thin layer of cells that lines the interior surface of blood vessels and lymphatic vessels. Ebola has specific molecules that bind to the surface of these cells. Whatever you do to the surface of the virus to make it more durable is likely to change the binding properties.
It takes some pretty dedicated expertise to do something like this..Not Sure these type of people would readily work for ISIS. The work itself would be physically demanding due to hazmat suits, tedious, exacting and dangerous. Testing and production (with humans as would be needed) would be soul destroying and macabre. Not the kind of thing many well educated biochemists would be willing or able to do.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Hey, looney tune right wingers, what happened to your ebola crisis???????
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So some nitwit presented to one of the wife's cohorts and demanded the Ebola vaccine.
She was informed that no such thing exists for the general public yet. When it was suggested
that she get the flu vaccine, if only for the safety of her fetus, her reply was:
"I don't believe in the flu vaccine."
DOH!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Ebola is very real!
be sure to wash ur hands and keep clean!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 19, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
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Sep 30, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
Oh RJ, im so glad you enlightened us on the increased intellect of the electorate. We all know Romney would be inviting all manner of diseased immigrants with an even more robust open borders policy than the current mob boss. Dumbass, wasn't he ? Im sure glad we've got Barack, Harry and the dethroned queen Nancy looking out for us, aren't you?
Hey, Rick, what the heck happened to your ebola crisis???? What would Romney do to save us?????
TGT, where's all the scary graphs and video???? Tioga?? Sketchy??
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 22, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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Ebola is old news! Apparently Zika is now well established in Brownsville, Tejas. I also read
the other day that epidemiologists have identified 55 viruses ripe for causing the next
pandemic. YGD!
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