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Messages 1 - 76 of total 76 in this topic |
micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 30, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
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The Spanish word sierra means "range of mountains," and is usually found in combination with other words, such as Sierra Blanca (White Range), Sierra Madre (Mother Range, or Central Range), and Nevada (Snowy Range). Occasionally las sierras is used to designate a group of mountain ranges or ridges. In the Spanish narratives of exploration una sierra nevada is frequently found written without capital initials, referring simply to a snow-covered range of mountains. It was in this that our own Sierra Nevada was first designated. Early in the nineteenth century it was sometimes called the California Range by American explorers, but gradually the Spanish phrase prevailed, and after a while it became a specific name and took its place on all maps. The Sierra Nevada is distinctly a unit, both geographically and topographically, and is well described as "una sierra nevada." Strictly speaking, therefore, we should never say "Sierras," or "High Sierras," or "Sierra Nevadas" in referring to it. Nevertheless, these forms are so frequently found in the very best works of literature and science that it would perhaps be pedantic to deny their admissibility. It becomes, therefore, a matter of preference, and for our part we rather like to keep in mind the unity of our great range by calling it simply "The Sierra" or "The Sierra Nevada."
Having thus promised not to look askance at "Sierras," we may perhaps be spared the pain of hearing "Sierra Nevada Mountains." Surely one does not say "Loch Katrine Lake," "Rio Grande River," or "Saint San Francisco".
[This note by Francis Farquhar, the authority on Sierra place names, first appeared in the Bulletin (Sierra Club) in 1928. Largely owing to his editorial effort, the name "Sierras" is even less admissible now than it was then. Some speakers and writers have gone farther than Farquhar would wish: they drop the terminal s all right, but, forgetting the unity of the range, they consider the name to be plural, e.g., "The Sierra are ...." The name "Sierras" is still stuck to by a few recalcitrants who probably concluded that logic has nothing to do with the acceptance place names, and who could cite, in accepted nomenclature, many redundancies such as Little Chico Creek (Little Little Creek).
We cannot argue logically with persons who deprecate logic; nevertheless, we can call them names. So we aver that the man who will say "Sierras" will also say "Frisco," and is probably on a par with the printer who would letter-space lower case type. Such a printer, said Goudy, would steal sheep.]
Excerpt from the 1947 Sierra Club Bulletin. ed. David Brower
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Gene
climber
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
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I am reading The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe. Great book except for his pluralization of the Sierra.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:14pm PT
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The Sierra Nevada contains many ranges: the Minarets, the Kaweahs, the Inconsolable, etc. So yes, it is the sierras.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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Yet another reason why I admire Brower: good grammar.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
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Maybe I'll start calling them the Sierras Nevadas, to keep them grammatically correct in espanol.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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Hay granito?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
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Ron, good point. While we're at it, we should change the name of your state to Nevadas. There's more than one snow there, right?
Mr. Milktoast, I refer you to Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaweah_Peaks_Ridge
Kaweah Peaks Ridge is a spur of the Great Western Divide, a sub-range of California's Sierra Nevada.
You're correct about the Minarets. My bad! It's the Ritter Range!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritter_Range
The Ritter Range is a small mountain range within California's Sierra Nevada.
I leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
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Let's see...who shall we side with when it comes to proper grammar and spelling....hmmm.......
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
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I always liked that name: The Inconsolable Range. They look it, too.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
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El granito tiene fissures?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
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I respect the views of what's her name on the subject, posted here I forget when.
I have not varied in using Sierra Nevada but one time since she laid down the law, and that was tongue-in-cheek.
As is this, Hoos Jolia.
Brower's legacy includes this Nat. Geo. feature from the fifties.
No plural, just the singular.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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You'd think it mattered.
Couldn't we just look at each other and chuckle, as has been done many thousands of times?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
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The Roy Rogers of California mountain ranges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Range_(California);
The mountain range from the novel by Frank Norris, McTeague (basis for the movie Greed)in the other end of the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panamint_Range
Ix-nay on "Yolla Bolly range," but such a cool name.
Capt., oh, Capt., or Skully, oh, Skully...HAHAHA!
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
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I climb in the Sierra Nevada (Mountains)....
I'm off to the "Sierras" this weekend..
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DonC
climber
CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
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The official keeper of place names in the US is the United States Board of Geographic Names. Search on domestic names
http://geonames.usgs.gov
Local use may vary... Even the term High Sierra is not recognized by the Board, other than the High Sierra Trail
I'm sure we all have some of these:
Place Names of the Sierra Nevada - Browning
A Climber's Guide to the High Sierra - Vogue, 1965
Mountaineer's Guide to the High Sierra - Vogue, Amatko, 1972
The Climber's Guide to the High Sierra - Roper, 1976
The High Sierra - Secor, 2009
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
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My Spanish is lousy, but my mad skilz saw says that it's a "sierra circular". Saw toothed, indeed. The Sierra Nevada seems more appropriately named that Les Gran Tetons…
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
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Lol. I have no actual knowledge on this subject. Nor did i ever claim to... I was just jibbin' on that other thread!! Lol
Mouse!!! This pic rulez!!!
Thanks!!
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
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It doesn't bother me when people say "sierras", but I do think your stupid. But its ok to be stupid. Embrace it!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
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It's "The Sierra" no S as in Treasure of the Sierra Madre!
Jaybro, posting from the Northern Rocky
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DonC
climber
CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
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DMT - perhaps, but not a reference in his book. He lists Farquhar's 1926 Place Names of the High Sierra as his starting point, plus updated research.
Another bit of "interesting" info. The US Board on Geographic Names defines the Sierra Nevada as extending from the gap south of Lassen Peak in the north, to the Tehachapi Pass in the south.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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For me the sierra ends at the 120....on the other side of that is the too far range
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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I do think your stupid. But its ok to be stupid. Embrace it Almost got me!
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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I’ve finally gotten over the “Sierra” singular thing. It’s much like a republican saying “the Democrat Party.” I know that Sierra is improper if written “Sierras,” but who really cares? I know what they mean. As usual, Brower was correct.
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DonC
climber
CA
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Jul 30, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
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TMJesse - I use them all also, and we all know what we mean
sierra
high sierra
eastern sierra
etc
I work with the map making agencies of USGS, USFS, BLM, National Geographic, etc, so just thought I would post a link to the official list of place names that is the basis of their maps
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 30, 2014 - 07:27pm PT
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But you know what homes?
STILL ONLY ONE SIERRA NEVADA in California.
True dat. But there's a lot of sierras in the Sierra.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 30, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
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'Holmes'
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Jul 30, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
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I have been known to slip, but it IS good to know what is right, because I enjoy being that.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jul 30, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
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Sierra Nevada . . . no Sierras. Anyone using the plural form is a complete noob. Similar situation exists here . . . San Juan Mountains not San Juans.
San Juan for chrissakes.
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Jul 30, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
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Reminds me of a Mr. Wayism- " ATM machine? Automatic Teller Machine machine?"
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Jul 30, 2014 - 11:47pm PT
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Mirco - sorry about the drift...are you on Mt. Emerson?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jul 31, 2014 - 12:25am PT
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Funny shet, what's a Sierra? Where's that word come from?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 31, 2014 - 06:37am PT
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A sierra is a Spanish saw, see?
*zzzzzzzzz*
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 31, 2014 - 06:46am PT
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What about the Rockies...?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 31, 2014 - 08:01am PT
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A sierra is a Spanish saw, see?
Si.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 31, 2014 - 08:39am PT
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Reminds me of a Mr. Wayism- " ATM machine? Automatic Teller Machine machine?"
Or my favorite place name from the department of redundancy department...
The La Brea Tar Pits
The the tar tar pits
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 31, 2014 - 09:20am PT
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As a bookseller, chagrin ruled when the customer, who's always right, called it the ISBN number (International Standard Book Number Number).
I had to hold back and not say, "Your stupid, sir."
DMT, you're tongue must be in you're cheek, sir. :0)
It's all about yer Bolly Lollies in Scandinavy.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Jul 31, 2014 - 09:30am PT
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It's the Coast Mountains of BC not the Coast Range too
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 10:07am PT
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Thank you, now I can sleep
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CA Dreamin'
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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I received the following email response from a denizen of the eastside after I mistakenly referred to the range as the "Sierras":
"The other thing is that there is not such thing as the 'Sierras'. Maybe just a grammatical issue to some, but it seems like an obvious mistake to avoid if you like the range. The Sierra is great to climb in. There are many mountains in the Sierra, but only one Sierra (it means mountain range). So promise me you will not call it the Sierras again. It is a very flatland westsider kind of a thing to say. Mountain up yourself, lad."
I didn't make that mistake again.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 31, 2014 - 10:36am PT
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i'm in the sierras right now.
cee AIR uhz
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 31, 2014 - 10:56am PT
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Two things I've learned here over the many years are below. Failure on either point will bring an immediate and brutal attack:
1. It is "Sierra" and not "Sierras"
2. It is "Lightning" and not "Lightening" when speak of electrical charges in the sky.
And some say this place offers nothing.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jul 31, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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Someone upthread mentioned 'the rockies'
is that also a grammatical error?
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:01am PT
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"there is not such thing"...that denizen sounds like a dipshit
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:03am PT
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i thought that as well. I would politely tell that denizen to stfu
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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I discovered the "Sierras" mistake perhaps 30 years ago, and have tried to stay correct, but this discussion really reminds me of a Taco Bell commercial of many decades ago.
The commercial asked its listeners "Whenever you think of taco, think of bell." This caused a voice on the commercial to ask "Well, then shouldn't the name be Taco Taco, or Bell, Bell, or Bell Taco, or maybe none of these?"
John
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:32am PT
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VIN number is another one
Per mouse's post
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2014 - 11:33am PT
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This thread is making me crave an "expresso".
or a Chai Tea. Which means Tea tea.
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:34am PT
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Ha! That is another good one
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Vertizon
climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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Well, Good. I'm glad that's been settled.
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coolrockclimberguy69
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:47am PT
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Zion, not Zions. It's a national park, not a bank.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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Zion, not Zions. It's a national park, not a bank.
Zions has been one of our clients for at least the last eight years. Our version of Word still flags "Zions" (but not "Sierras") as a misspelling.
John
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coolrockclimberguy69
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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Is "sierras" the plural of "sierra"? My spanish consists mainly of insults and curse words.
"Zion's" doesn't even make sense. The possessive form of Zion is "Zion". Am I wrong? Some grammar nazi should clue me in.
edit: I think I'm wrong on the "Zion's" thing
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 31, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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Apogee?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 31, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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What a bunch of loosers!
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 31, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
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In CA, we also have La Brea, which means "The Tar Pits" in Spanish.
But everyone calls them The La Brea Tar Pits, which literally means
The the tar tar pits.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 31, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
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"or a Chai Tea. Which means Tea tea."
nice pics.
But I would argue that where I live Chai does not mean tea. It is a kind of tea.
speaking of drinks (acai juice), in English,
acai might be pronounced something like [ah-kay] or [a-kiy]
as in Caiman, cairn, or caisson.
If you pronounce it [ah-sa-yay], you are not speaking English.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jul 31, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
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We Washingtonians call 'em the Sierras and we get to, cuz apparently we're the only ones that ski 'em.
I'm from CA. Only East Coast out of towners, with John Muir as their poster child, call it the Sierra.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jul 31, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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I'm off to the "Sierras" this weekend.
the same as I'm off to the Sierra this weekend...
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jul 31, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
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Ever been to Table Mesa?
How bout the Rillito River?
Pluralization? Surfers are experts at that.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:21pm PT
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Yosemites Valley and Toulumnes Meadow in the Sierras Nevadas are very smoky now, not bad at Monos lake though.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jul 31, 2014 - 11:33pm PT
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Yeah, they try to say it is "Upper Yosemite Fall," "Nevada Fall," and "Tuolumne Meadow," etc. Who cares!! Call it "The Meadows" and everyone knows where you're talking about!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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It's the Coast Mountains of BC not the Coast Range too
...one of the Pacific Coast Ranges.
....as it is the Coast Range in Oregon.
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Polar Bear
Mountain climber
Moraga, California
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Chris,
Thanks for including "Sierra or sierra's".
The Sierra is composed of many small "ranges" like we are composed of many small parts still making us each a singular entity. The Sierra Nevada is Spanish for "snowy range". The California Miwok named it "Kayopha the sky and the peaks that touch it". John Muir called it "The Range of Light". I almost never hear anyone refer to it as "The Range of Light". Maybe only John Muir and a very few of us see the Light composed within this single range, the SIERRA.
The non believers and the ignorant can refer to:
Place Names of the Sierra Nevada 1992 edited by Peter Browning page 198.
For A definitive explanation:
"Sierra or sierras" Sierra Club Handbook by David Brower, Ansel Adams, Harriet T. Parsons, Blanche Stallings, Charlotte Mauk 1951.
Best,
Steve Thaw, Moraga, California
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overwatch
climber
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It isn't that we don't believe and there are very few truly ignorant people here, it is that we just don't care
Edit:
I'm with klk
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Just watch your grammar pilgrim.
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Polar Bear
Mountain climber
Moraga, California
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Chris,
Thanks for including "Sierra or sierra's".
The Sierra is composed of many small "ranges" like we are composed of many small parts still making us each a singular entity. The Sierra Nevada is Spanish for "snowy range". The California Miwok named it "Kayopha the sky and the peaks that touch it". John Muir called it "The Range of Light". I almost never hear anyone refer to it as "The Range of Light". Maybe only John Muir and a very few of us see the Light composed within this single range, the SIERRA.
The non believers and the ignorant can refer to:
Place Names of the Sierra Nevada 1992 edited by Peter Browning page 198.
For a definitive explanation:
"Sierra or sierras" Sierra Club Handbook by David Brower, Ansel Adams, Harriet T. Parsons, Blanche Stallings, Charlotte Mauk 1951.
Best,
Steve Thaw, Moraga,California
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Steve Thaw Bump! The man that corrected my Sierra enunciation.
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ruppell
climber
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I had a long response typed up.
I just realized it was typed on the boundry of the range of light.
ROL it is for me.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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The first definition of sierra would be a saw, not a mountain range.
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ruppell
climber
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Fourth google search for "range of light"
Plenty of info:
ROL?
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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When I hear people refer to "the Winds" in Wyoming, it bugs me.
LOL
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 14, 2014 - 06:28am PT
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Yeah. A bunch of old school marms yammering and whining and wailing about an inconsequential piece of nomenclature. Until you can tell me the name that the first human who ever saw the range, circa 15,000 years ago called it, we're ALL WRONG, no matter what we call it. Now calm down, take your meds, and go climbing. I was born in the sierra, and I'm goin climbing in the sierras today for a bit, then I'll come home and drink a beer in the sierra, and fall asleep in the sierras. Words. The range of light will still be here long after humans have vanished from the face of the earth. And it won't have a name.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 14, 2014 - 06:43am PT
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I saw a Chevy truck in the Sierras. It was a Sierra. Its bed had several cases of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
LOSER! You could have had Keystone Range of Light!
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sketchypro
Trad climber
Melbourne, florida
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Aug 17, 2014 - 07:43am PT
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Another +1 for Polar Bear,
Coincidentally I just read "rough-hewn land" kind of a geologic road-trip from the coast through the Sierra to the Rocky
oh wait ...
should that be the Rockys?
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stonefly
Social climber
Alameda, California
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Sep 28, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
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The Oakland Museum of California responds to complaints:
"The name Sierra is already a plural. To add an s is a linguistic, Californian, and mountaineering sin."
Ansel Adams
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