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Stormsy
Boulder climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 20, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
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Hey guys! I'm conducting a study on how people approach life's challenges and whether that relates to the kinds of activities they engage in (we are particularly interested in rock-climbing!). If you're an avid climber like I am, I bet you wonder how climbing relates to other areas of your life- this is what I'm trying to test! The survey is suitable for all ages and isn't intended to cause any discomfort. All participation is anonymous and voluntary. The results could help prompt more research into how climbing affects behavior, cognition, and affect! the link to the survey is:
https://columbia.az1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_5BzCuxbk3zJ0y69&participantType=volunteer
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, help out if you can- it will take approximately 10 minutes to complete! There is a serious lack of research on climbing in the psychology literature, and we are hoping to change that!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 20, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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There is a serious lack of research on climbing in the psychology literature, and we are hoping to change that!
For whatever it's worth to you, I think a lot of climbers are just fine with there being "a serious lack of research on climbing in the psychology literature."
I don't mean to be a dick, but the less "research" done about climbing, the happier I'll be.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 20, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
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If you're an avid climber like I am, I bet you wonder how climbing relates to other areas of your life- this is what I'm trying to test!
Lol!!
Constantly! I probably wonder this as avidly as u climb.
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Stormsy
Boulder climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2014 - 09:01pm PT
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Simply for school. I would seriously appreciate it as we only need 30 people. If you can find the time (less than 10 minutes), I would be grateful. Good luck to everyone climbing out there! It is a study that is trying to show that climbers solve problems much differently than non-climbers in many aspects of life.
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Stormsy
Boulder climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
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Haha, seems like you guys aren't very interested. Thought all climbers were down to earth (no pun intended).
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
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I bit, good luck. How did you know about Ghost in the survey?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
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What's wrong with studying run-of-the-mill wackos?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
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The more research you do on this subject, the less you'll really know.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
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Wow, even I think you use too many exclamation points.
This is incredible as I know I use too many exclamations points. Well done.
edit: Nonetheless I tried your survey...and quit. Too many double (and triple negatives). Too many double barreled questions. Too much clutter on the screen. Not trying to be a jerk, but your survey design is lacking and turned me off. Sorry.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
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Wow, even I think you use too many exclamation points. This is incredible as I know I use too many exclamations points. Well done.
Ha. No need for anyone else to take the survey, because we've already awarded the prize to Crimpie
How did you know about Ghost in the survey?
???????????????????????????????
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Stormsy
Boulder climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
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That's okay! It's not for everyone. Thanks for trying.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
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Thought all climbers were down to earth (no pun intended).
Don't you mean "thought all of us climbers were down to earth" cause remember, you're an avid climber too? Right?
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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just took the survey.... What does my shoe size have to do with problem solving....?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 20, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
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Ghost, was baiting after yer first post.
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fivesix
Trad climber
Girdwood, AK
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Jun 20, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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Why don't you do a study on how different races solve problems. That'll piss a few people off.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 20, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
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I took the test and it didn't seem to me that it was about how climbing affected my life. Rather, it seemed about my decision making process. Whether that corelates to climbing or not, I'm not sure.Probably climbing is just one of several corelates.
Do you have a control group of people from a totally different activity? Ping Pong or curling perhaps?
Or a control group from a different sport that is also dangerous - base jumping for example?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 20, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
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Egotistical types tend to click toward the extreme edges of the survey. More balanced people on either side of center. Oops, did I blow the survey?
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 21, 2014 - 12:54am PT
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maybe if you had used a fourth please...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 21, 2014 - 01:24am PT
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The survey is suitable for all ages and isn't intended to cause any discomfort.
No discomfort? I'll pass
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 21, 2014 - 07:28am PT
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I haven't looked at it but it sounds like a psych eval
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 21, 2014 - 08:14am PT
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It should have been stated;
After pulling out your head, did you analyze the problem?
:-)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 04:03am PT
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Pretesting questionaires is often done. I suspect she's doing that here, so she can test the better model on a climbing site with younger, less cynical climbers, the type she'd rather hang out with more. :)
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jun 22, 2014 - 06:58am PT
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Stormsy, give this thread a few days and I'll bet you're learn more about climbers from reading it then you'd ever gain from that survey......those questions gave me a headache, I quit.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jun 22, 2014 - 07:07am PT
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Stormsy, ( said with as much kindness as can be conveyed in writing), please, please please re-write the questions in your survey. The phrasing (as Crimpie said) has too many negatives.
Also, eliminate the words, "sometimes", "often" etc from the questions, and use the survey format where the answer allows, never, rarely, often always. There is no reason to use the same survey format for every question.
Strive to ask the simplest most straightforward, least complex question.
If I were your thesis advisor, or class professor, i would spend the time working with you until you had a survey that would actually yield some answers. That is what you are trying to learn in school. How to design an experiment. The actual answers at this point are not that important.
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tangen_foster
Trad climber
Hudson, Wisconsin
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Jun 22, 2014 - 07:49am PT
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Stormsy, your data is in the responses by climbers to your request to take your study. go qualitative and develop your grounded theory. and, crimpy (phd)provides some good feedback on your survey design.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jun 22, 2014 - 08:07am PT
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Ok, I had to come back to this because it was so disturbing to me as a retired scientist.
"This is what we are trying to prove." No, you are not. Good science never trys to prove anything. You are testing a hypothesis. The data will tell you yes, no, or not determined by the experiment.
"Climbers" as a set: impossibly broad, too many variables.
30 respondants gives you meaningful results to a question about problem solving: don't kid yourself.
I'm not trying to be hard on you, my annoyance is not with you but with your teacher/mentor, who should know better.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 08:15am PT
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I agree that the comments here will tell a person more about climbers than any questionnaire, especially this one. For sure, I was always taught that both questionnaires and interview questions are best kept short.
It's also typical in my field of anthropology that the interviewer has a hard time keeping the subject of the interview on topic long enough to answer the specific questions so don't feel bad that's also happened here.
I don't know if you've posted your questionaire to other climbing websites or not, but just comparing the responses on different websites might be one way of overcoming your impossibly broad field.
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granite_girl
Trad climber
Oakland
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Jun 22, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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I'm pretty tolerant of bad survey questions, but those ones are a bit hard to parse. Rewrite with fewer words and you'll get more and better responses. Really hope you're just an undergrad!
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John M
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 09:38am PT
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Crimpster and the Ghost are both very down to earth people. Ghosts answer should give you a real insight into climbers. Lots of us don't want to be examined. We don't care for the mainstreaming of climbing. Crimpster is a professor of criminology and an expert on creating studies. I think that I have that right.. :-)
Jan is a sociologist having lived among and studied indigenous people in the Himalayas for years.
Others who have given you suggestions are professors and professionals.
There is a large wealth of knowledge on this forum. Most of the folks who have answered you are highly experienced and successful.
If they don't like the survey, then it might be worth your while to try and understand why.
Just my two cents. No time right now to try out the survey, but now my interest is peaked. heh heh.. funny how that works.
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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I totally agree John M. There are some incredibly smart people on this forum. They keep me coming back in spite of some of the other not so smart and/or troll types
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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Please do not call me a sociologist! I am an ANTHROPOLOGIST ! There's a world of difference, especially in matters of methodology. Among other things, sociologists love questionnaires and we don't.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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There is a large wealth of knowledge on this forum
Moose, Locker, Ron, Lollie, Scrubbing Bubbles, Clinker, DMT.....
There are a lot of us who constantly dumb it down so everyone has a chance to keep up.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:17am PT
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took the test.
climbing is not rocket science!
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Jun 22, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
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Excellent idea. I have valuable input which you don't want for free.
Fedex a case of beer. Get 500 words. Camp 4 site 32 ASAP!
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John M
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
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Sorry Jan.. I didn't know. I have nothing but respect for what you have done and do and I always appreciate your perspective.
John
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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Don't worry about it John, but do remember that anthropologists are touchy about that, in part because sociologists with their quick and dirty questionnaires which people can then run statistics on, usually get the job and anthropologists don't, because our more in depth methods take more time.
I used to lecture six hours in an intro class about methodology and an hour and a half of that was how the two disciplines are different. I've even been accused of being ethnocentric about anthropology :)
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John M
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 03:00pm PT
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:-) I wasn't worried jan, but that is funny. who knew? not us peons. I will always strive to remember that you are an anthropologist. :-)
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Jun 22, 2014 - 07:54pm PT
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I am not a professional and not highly educated like others herein but it seems to me that the same question is repeated over and over so I didn't complete the survey.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
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I'm survived as a climber not because I excelled at deductive reasoning but rather because I
listened to Uncle Fred's admonition to trust yer gut feelings, otherwise known in more
esoteric circles as 'going with the flow'. Analyze that!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
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Thanks Heisenberg.
I would think the papers presented at the Extreme Sports Medicine Conference will be published eventually.
These two caught my eye and Stormsy probably should try to get ahold of the authors.
"Personality Characteristics of Elite Mountaineers & BASE jumpers by Monasterio from New Zealand
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"Outcome Scores" by Kildey from Australia.
The way most of us learned the standards for how to research and publish was by reading what went before.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
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I bet you wonder how climbing relates to other areas of your life- this is what I'm trying to test!
Do you actually have an hypothesis that you are trying to test? What is it?
My late 60's/early 70's climbing friends and I developed our own life philosophy: "Life is a Bivouac." Yes, climbing DOES relate to other aspects of our lives! Do you seriously think that your questionnaire will reveal the ways in which it does???
It meant that our lives were lived without warm food and without warm women with whom we could share our lives. We could sleep well and happily in uncomfortable, yet beautiful places. We learned to love and trust our (mostly male) climbing partners.
The friends we made in those days remain our life-long, and most trusted friends today.
Today, I am happy to say, we have truly loving, trusted women in our lives. LIFE IS MORE THAN JUST A BIVOUAC!
We've had children, or not! But we still love and trust one another as much as we ever did.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
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One thing that would be interesting to know is how many people who dropped out of normal life to climb for awhile had already developed the bivouac theory of life before they took up climbing and how many as a result?
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
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Good question, Jan! I think the seeds were planted early-on, then germinated and grew with the practice and the years!
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jun 23, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
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Did the test, finished it...Felt like someone added 20 pitches of 5.0- climbing to the royal arches and you just couldn't get off. I hope there is a different methodology to the testing then what meets the eye. Regretfully I doubt it.
Maybe next time he needs to set a more strict and cohesive test group. In addition to the redundancy in the questions there was also a targeted result pattern, knott unlike studies the Germans did in the late 30's.
I'll keep my mouth shut...
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 23, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
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Unable to finish your survey. Sorry. It seemed to me that you are presupposing the outcome and ask the questions based on what you think the answer should be. For most of those questions (as far as I made it) how I was raised matter's much more regarding how I deal with things than if I climb.
If I were to write out an answer to MOST of your questions, it would be this: SOMETIMES THAT IS TRUE, SOMETIMES IT IS NOT. IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
I'm in the donut store, how would I answer these questions you ask differently today than tomorrow and even differently if the question changed say if the ? to who was "I am going to marry" solve for X.
Your question: "Even though I work on a problem, sometimes I feel like I am groping or wandering, and am not getting down to the real issue." The correct answer is totally agree and totally disagree it depends. Depends on what day it is. Depends on what the real question would be. (situationally different).
Example, same situation differing outcomes: this problem being I need to get 12 donuts to get the discount and get my ass back to the office- present the donuts and hope folks are not pissed off: which donuts do I get? I may make a snap judgment and later regret them when confronted in the office with " WHY THE HELL DID YOU GET ME A FRITTER, YOU KNOW I LIKE CREAM FILLED?". vs "When confronted with a problem, I do not usually examine what sort of external things my environment may be contributing to my problem." Which donuts to get? Again? I may just grab the first f*#king 12 donuts as I have a $200,000 order waiting to be sorted out and figure dickhead in the office can fend for himself if he doesn't get a donut he prefers. No thinking at all, I'm in a hurry. F*#k em...first 12 wham, in the box out the f*#king door. Wham bam! Oh, you got a blueberry muffin? Too f*#king bad, I gave it no thought at all.
Hope that helps. BTW, I'm the dickead who likes the cream filled with chocolate covering. I'd climb better if I could stop eating that bullsh#t, and can't figure out the answer to any of your questions as it relates to "WHY CAN'T YOU STOP EATING DONUTS CAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'LL CLIMB BETTER IF YOU DON'T EAT THE FRIGGAN THINGS. DOES YOUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS FOR THAT DIFFER VS APPROACHING A MULTIMEGA HUGE WORLD WIDE CONGLOMERATE AND TRY TO MAKE A SALE?"
Yup, totally different. Sorry. That's life. Please, when you show up, remember that I like the cream filled chocolate covered donuts. Life is like a box of donuts. Not.
Hope that helped you.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 23, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
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Uhm....
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Jun 24, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
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Jeez I got as far as...
When I have a problem, I think up as many possible ways to handle it as I can until I can't come up with any more ideas.
...now I'm stuck in an endless spiral of trying to think of more ideas. Help!!!!
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Jun 24, 2014 - 06:53pm PT
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Thank you all for your candid responses. Both the OP, and the “survey” were placebo. This thread solicited responses from a blind, randomized, trial group to help establish a control baseline for future land management policy.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jun 28, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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Never mind these aholes. Thanks for being polite in the face of it. Filled it out. Good luck!
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