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clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jun 12, 2014 - 09:29am PT

I spent two years on and off hanging around with a male friend who is a "10" on the 1-10 attractiveness scale by pretty much anyone who saw him. Not only that, he is beautiful inside - kind, considerate, polite, smart, sophisticated, good sense of humor, intelligent, and it seems he is also fairly well to do. The whole package, so to speak.

It would never - NEVER - occur to me to post pictures of this man online as if I was dangling a bauble for others to admire. It would be insulting to him as a human being, to present him s worth something only because of his beauty.

Article and pic, or maybe you're just selfish :) And poor choice of terminology to make a point about non-objectifying.

As for being valued "only because of his beauty". Yes, what is really of value? What was said above along with loyalty, devotion, honesty...the good stuff

According to a 2011 Newsweek report, women are more likely to be assaulted by a fellow soldier than killed in combat.[8]
A substantial increase in reported sexual assaults was reported at the 3 U.S. military academies for the school year 2010 to 2011. It is possible that the increase resulted only from increased willingness to report incidents; increased reporting has been one of the goals of the Department of Defense.[9]
In September 2013, Congress received the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2013 Statutory Enforcement Report.[10] The report found that during the 2012 fiscal year, there were 3,374 reports of sexual assault on military service members. 816 of these were not included in the commission report because they were confidential, restricted and not investigated. The report indicated that commanders are increasingly likely to refer sexual assault cases to court martial compared to the prior 4 years. In 15% of cases the accused perpetrator was permitted to resign or be discharge in lieu of court-martial.
The same commission report included the results of an anonymous survey of military personnel in which 23 percent of women and 4 percent of men reported experiencing unwanted sexual contact since enlistment. Based on this survey, the Department of Defense estimated that 26,000 service members experienced some form of unwanted sexual contact, from groping to rape, in the year 2012. 34 percent of women and 24 percent of men who reported these events in the anonymous survey stated that they had reported the event to authorities.
According to the USCCR report, a 2010 survey conducted by the Department of Defense found that 54 percent of women and 27 percent of men did not report because they feared retaliation; 47 percent of women and 20 percent of men did not report because they had heard other victims had a negative experience after reporting.

Current reality of our society. Having daughters myself, one who has expressed interest in military service, I would appreciate hearing from the women and men about why this is rampart and how to correct it.

Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Jun 12, 2014 - 09:40am PT
I need to think on how best to answer that, but I will.


edit: quick answer, watch The Invisible War.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jun 12, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
"The Invisible War"

Described as " Shocking Haunting Heartbreaking Shattering Exceptional
Unforgettable "See this Oscar-nominated, investigative documentary about the most shameful and best-kept secret in the U.S. military: an epidemic of rape ...

Thanks, I definitely will have to see it.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 12, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
I am heartened by the serious questions posed by some of you men to the women of supertopo.

Why do you need to share your appreciation of the female body here or anywhere on the internet? On Tuesday, at the climbing gym, I was entranced by a young male climber. I am old enough to be his mother and that didn't stop me from a deep appreciation of his beauty. [Srsly, he was hot!) But I had no desire to take a photo and post it to the internet. From whence comes this need to share your stoke?

I think there is something about the sharing of the image that contributes to objectification. I am not sure of this, this isn't a fully baked idea, but I throw it out.

I think Michelle, with her experience as a soldier, is the perfect person to respond to the question about rape in the armed services.

I had this article bookmarked and I think this is an appropriate place for it.

How to Criticize with Kindness: Philosopher Daniel Dennett on the Four Steps to Arguing Intelligently

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2014/03/28/daniel-dennett-rapoport-rules-criticism

One teacher I know points out that we women will spend less than 5 minutes conversing to another person in a checkout line and feel we are in a relationship with that person. My current understanding is the majority of men don't feel that way. We women tend to reach out to the humanity of another and connect. The best part of supertopo for me is the power of the internet to connect me to people. I have met two of my dearest friends of my life, Jaybro and Phylp, here.

Phyl, early in this thread, commented on the lack of kindness here. I think the above article is such a good way of addressing this very pertinent issue.

I've given a great deal of thought to my reactivity around High Fructose Corn Syrup. He had some very good points and we could have had such an interesting discussion. But his lack of kindness prevented this. I am glad he took his toys and went home.

and now I sleep and rise to finish the homework I have been procrastinating on doing...




Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:20am PT
FACT: I had female friend the other day tell me that all women sit around and talk about the size of their male acquaintances' JOHNSONS

They did???!!? OMG!!!
Your women aquintainces do that! Sit around and compare. My.

But... but... you know.... that means they compared yours too! To other men too!
Does it worry you? Is it small or crooked or have any of the other common features which doesn't fit the norm of perfect?


Hehe.
Welcome to the world of women. We're constantly appraised like that, but publicly. Not in private talks.


(On the other hand, I think you just made that up. ;-) )
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:26am PT
Ghost.
Nice pics!
:-)
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jun 13, 2014 - 06:23am PT

Does it worry you? Is it small or crooked or have any of the other common features which doesn't fit the norm of perfect?


That is so insensitive. Have a heart.



Will there be an outpouring of response from brave little men?
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
Jun 13, 2014 - 07:01am PT
Daphne, what wonderful posts from you on this thread. From many others too. What shining points of light piercing through the muck.

Forgive me that I have not contributed more, but I am up in Mammoth climbing and have not had the time to read through everything. Plus I just have this little phone to type on - not that conducive to posting.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jun 13, 2014 - 07:16am PT
conversing to another person

Instead of conversing AT another person.

It seems the military was ill prepared (or unwilling) to handle sexual conduct. They didn't get the memo.

Regarding men, I simply want to tell my daughters to look for intelligent life. It isn't that simple, so be careful of human nature and look for a guy that has a job, but then all those rapists in the military were employed...

So girls, be smart, try to make good choices, some will be tough choices. Respect life and don't take sh#t. In other words,if you are both working, split the household chores.

One of my daughters was working and her man wasn't for a while. His Mama had done all the "traditional" chores, so the floors weren't swept, the sink was full of dirty dishes... He had to be educated(and threatened a little) He did get the message and she decided to keep him around. I even kinda like him too. ;)
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jun 13, 2014 - 07:26am PT
Evil photographers, objectifying women. . .Its about intent for me, and respect for the people, both men and women that you make your Art with. . .df

Edit, I agree, lets burn one, but not my meat. .
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 13, 2014 - 09:35am PT
Locker makes a presumptuous and arrogant assumption that one must comment on something simply because one belong to a certain gender. So much for understanding what this thread has been about.


It's quite enough that he postes about everything everywhere all the time.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Jun 13, 2014 - 09:52am PT
Stinks like Licker in here. No good thread untainted.

Licker is up to 20% of total posts on this thread. I can't imagine that he has any women in his life. What a sad sad old baby.

( licker, the reason that no one answers your questions is because you are mostly disingenuous and selfish. Yours is a one-way rant. Don't confuse your own voice with a conversation.) Your MO of bold, spaces, caps, insults and a passive aggressive Lol is tiring. Aren't you tired of your own humorless MO yet? There's a question for you.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 13, 2014 - 09:53am PT
After my last post I realized I had forgotten to comment on the beautiful photo of someone's girlfriend climbing at sunset with her child on a rock, his little arms raised in exaltation. There are lots of similar photos here, of women and men climbing, where I think, "that is beautiful", not "beauty" that titillates, but beauty that inspires. He has taken it down, and I am sad about that.

Dingus, thanks for the analysis. You are right.
But there are them that post such pics to demean, ridicule and dominate. I would suggest most of the issue taken with the posting of such images falls to the 2nd group.

The photos that inspire me aren't in the category that demeans, ridicules or dominates.

To post a photo with the goal of titillating each other (sexually, I love the climbing photos that titillate me to wanting to climb) instead of inspiring each other, are the ones that demean.

And Bullwinkle, your photos inspire me.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 13, 2014 - 09:54am PT
Locker, you must know that your trolling has a sharp edge to it. Your sense of humor can draw blood.
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 13, 2014 - 09:56am PT
Yes, Dingus... I thought he was. That's why I didn't answer first. :-)

Yes, locker, be you. One cannot be like everyone else anyway.
But you got your answer. It's like asking "why don't the men comment on Bullwinkle's stonenudes"? The answer is naturally that everyone won't, and every man is different, some have opinions about it and some don't. What's the difference?

Besides Dingus has already answered your question. It has already been discussed previous years.
matisse

climber
Jun 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
I'll answer you locker. I imagine that you will get as many opinions as there are women that will post a response. In my other life I am an painter and I also paint nudes. The stone nudes are art, and I appreciate them as such. The stone nude photos I have seen are beautiful. That differs from a lot of the pictures of women posted on the taco that clearly have a different intent, however much their posters may try to pass them off as art.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jun 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
I was wondering if it were possible for Locker to not share his opinion on some subject, any subject? Not that that's a bad thing...
matisse

climber
Jun 13, 2014 - 10:08am PT
I like locker. He is our court jester.

edited to add that I think it is a reasonable question given our discussion here...
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jun 13, 2014 - 10:09am PT
I'm offended by the Stone Nudes.
they should be banned.
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 13, 2014 - 10:13am PT
Ah, namecalling. Did I get your goat, locker? :-D
Good.
Sometimes you really get mine.




LOL.
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