Is There a Humane Way to Kill?

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John M

climber
May 1, 2014 - 12:33am PT
If I ever went crazy and killed someone, I would prefer to die rather then rot in prison for 30 or 40 or 50 years.

that said, my main problem with the death penalty is that we do convict innocent people. If we kill, them, then they don't have a chance to prove their innocence.

I'm not in the vengeance business. I just want to keep them from harming others.

I have no idea if there is a humane way to do it. put them to sleep and then use the guillotine.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
May 1, 2014 - 12:35am PT
Then why you keep industrialized slaughterhouses.
Another subject. We're talking human executions and rattlesnakes.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 1, 2014 - 12:37am PT
What if the victim were my own child?

I would like to think I could follow the example of Azim Khamisa. Azim has by himself done more good than all the death sentences.

http://www.azimkhamisa.com/

In 1995 Azim Khamisa’s only son, Tariq – a 20-year-old student – was shot and killed while delivering pizzas in San Diego. His killer, Tony Hicks, became the first 14-year-old to stand trial as an adult in the state of California. He received a 25-year prison sentence. Azim, alongside Tony’s grandfather and guardian, Ples Felix, now devotes much of his time to promoting the vision of the Tariq Khamisa Foudation – an organization committed to “stopping children from killing children”.

Azim Khamisa

When I got the phone call saying that Tariq was dead I kind of left my body, because the pain was too much to bear. It was like a nuclear bomb going off inside my heart. There was no solace to be found in my mind and so, as a Sufi Muslim, I turned to my faith. For the next few weeks I survived through prayer and was quickly given the blessing of forgiveness, reaching the conclusion there were victims at both ends of the gun.

Tariq’s killer had the face of a child. He was 14 years old and belonged to a street gang called the Black Mob. His gang name was Bone.

In my faith, on the fortieth day after a death you are encouraged to channel your grief into good compassionate deeds: deeds which provide high octane fuel for the soul’s forward journey. Forty days is not a long time to grieve for a child, but one of my motivations for starting the Tariq Khamisa Foundation was to create spiritual currency for my son, as well as to give myself a sense of purpose.

Simultaneously, I reached out to Ples Felix, the grandfather and guardian of Tony Hicks. The first time I met Ples I told him that I felt no animosity towards his grandson. Ples was quick to take the offered hand of forgiveness. We’re very different: I wear a pin-striped suit, and he has hair down to his waist. But from the moment we met we have been like brothers.

We share a common purpose. We believe that in every crime there is an opportunity to improve society by learning how to prevent that crime from happening again. Tariq was a victim of Tony, but Tony was a victim of American society – and society is a mirror image of each and every one of us. What gives me hope is the fact that when Ples and I give talks in school, you can see the metamorphosis as the kids are moved by our story.

Five years after the tragedy I met Tony. It was a very healing time. I found him very likeable – well mannered and remorseful. I told him that when he got out of prison there would be a job waiting for him at the Tariq Khamisa Foundation.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 1, 2014 - 01:19am PT
I don't really believe in many if any conspiracy theories, but the incredible incompetence shown in the recent lethal injection snafus (of which this one was just the most recent and worst) makes me wonder how committed to the death penalty these wardens (or whoever established the execution protocol) really are. I suppose it's probably just gross incompetence, but it almost seems like they're trying to get the death penalty abolished.

Hard to see what the problem with a firing squad could be--the quick and efficient lethality of guns isn't in dispute, by people who like 'em and people who don't.
Hanging also works just fine--consider the whacko in Cleveland who imprisoned the 3 girls for years, and then hanged himself in his cell (which may also raise some questions about the competence of our prison administrators).

I would prefer the old 'hard time' kind of sentence....like the Chateau D'if......throw them in a dungeon and toss the key...in total isolation save for their own minds, which slowly go insane.

Death is too easy.

Now that's my kind of anti-death penalty advocate.

At least we should all agree that if anyone deserves a somewhat painful and complicated death, that would be the creep in this case. Still was really nothing like what his victim suffered.
John M

climber
May 1, 2014 - 01:45am PT
Hard to see what the problem with a firing squad could be--the quick and efficient lethality of guns isn't in dispute, by people who like 'em and people who don't.

there are cases of people having to be shot again once they were "executed" by a firing squad. In fact in some places it was standard procedure for the leader of the firing squad to walk up to the downed man and put one behind his ear with a pistol to make certain.

Sometimes Shots are missed for numbers of reasons. Including its not really an easy thing to do,
to be an executioner.

this is the only link that I could find about the pistol shot. Its called the "coupe de grace" . Funny that its a mormon website.

http://www.mormonoutreach.org/topics/bloodatonement.html

From another website two out of 40 executions by firing squads in Utah were bungled

http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/in_another_time/012896.html

Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 1, 2014 - 01:50am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Madbolter

Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
May 1, 2014 - 01:50am PT
Sad the media has ignored the 19 year old female victim who was beaten, bound, mouth duct taped, raped, pistol whipped, shot in the head and then buried while still alive.

As for the "botched" execution? F*#k that guy.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 1, 2014 - 01:53am PT
No other civilized First World nation thinks so.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 1, 2014 - 02:15am PT
As for the "botched" execution? F*#k that guy

and we have to ask ourselves how we became the most violent developed country in the world?

Not a proud day for my America
Psilocyborg

climber
May 1, 2014 - 02:32am PT
Tariq was a victim of Tony, but Tony was a victim of American society – and society is a mirror image of each and every one of us.

wise words. Though not all bad guys are victims of society. I dont know why our country is so violent. Go look on wikipedia for a list of international serial killers and then look at the list of US serial killers. Obviously something is VERY wrong with our way of life. But were are so addicted to our material wealth we will not face the facts that our precious America is a facade.

there are things worse than death. death is the ultimate freedom. I dont know why those who believe in an afterlife would be for the death penalty. honestly I could care less, and the capital judgement debate is a strawman. The real debate is why we have so much violence.

Donini says
No other civilized First World nation thinks so.

Apples to oranges....compare our murder rates to those other first world countries. They do not have our issues of violence.


Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 1, 2014 - 02:59am PT
if you gorilla tape a guy to a tree, he will most likely expire, depending on how far the tree is from civilization,

so you get death and a "green" burial, all for the price of the tape,
John M

climber
May 1, 2014 - 03:29am PT


Cheap masking tape, just a lot more of it.

there you have it. Cheap masking tape substituted for gorilla tape leads to botched execution. Man dies from hair follicle infection after botched masking tape execution. Prison watch groups and prison guards in uproar as man who died was not the prisoner. Update at 11:00
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 1, 2014 - 03:43am PT
Jon Beck, thanks for that link and info-amazing stuff really.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 1, 2014 - 09:42am PT
Stimbo...Remember the time when Mike emergency exited Apollo and crashed into the escape tower...?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
May 1, 2014 - 09:44am PT
No sympathy here.

It's unfortunate the death of this monster didn't take longer.

If your only child was brutally tortured, beaten, shot, then buried alive two weeks after she graduated high school, would you still have sympathy for this animal?

Stephanie Neiman was proud of her shiny new Chevy truck with the Tasmanian Devil sticker on it and a matching "Tazz" license plate.
Her parents had taught the teenager to stand up for "what was her right and for what she believed in."
Neiman was dropping off a friend at a Perry residence on June 3, 1999, the same evening Clayton Lockett and two accomplices decided to pull a home invasion robbery there. Neiman fought Lockett when he tried to take the keys to her truck.
The men beat her and used duct tape to bind her hands and cover her mouth. Even after being kidnapped and driven to a dusty country road, Neiman didn't back down when Lockett asked if she planned to contact police.
The men had also beaten and kidnapped Neiman's friend along with Bobby Bornt, who lived in the residence, and Bornt's 9-month-old baby.
"Right is right and wrong is wrong. Maybe that's what Clayton was so scared of, because Stephanie did stand up for her rights," her parents later wrote to jurors in an impact statement. "She did not blink an eye at him. We raised her to work hard for what she got."
Steve and Susie Neiman asked jurors to give Lockett the death penalty for taking the life of their only child, who had graduated from Perry High School two weeks before her death.
Tuesday, 15 years later, the state plans to carry out that penalty.
Lockett later told police "he decided to kill Stephanie because she would not agree to keep quiet," court records state.
Neiman was forced to watch as Lockett's accomplice, Shawn Mathis, spent 20 minutes digging a shallow grave in a ditch beside the road. Her friends saw Neiman standing in the ditch and heard a single shot.
Lockett returned to the truck because the gun had jammed. He later said he could hear Neiman pleading, "Oh God, please, please" as he fixed the shotgun.
The men could be heard "laughing about how tough Stephanie was" before Lockett shot Neiman a second time.
"He ordered Mathis to bury her, despite the fact that Mathis informed him Stephanie was still alive."
Bornt and Neiman's friend "were threatened that if they told anybody about these events, they too would be murdered," court records state.
"Every day we are left with horrific images of what the last hours of Stephanie's life was like," her parents' impact statement says.
"We were left with an empty home full of memories and the deafening silence of the lack of life within its walls. ... We feel that the only thing left to do is let Clayton Lockett serve out the sentence of death that a jury sentenced him to. Anything less is a travesty of justice."
Bornt wrote a letter Feb. 7 stating: "Clayton being put to death by lethal injection is almost too easy of a way to die after what he did to us. ... He will just be strapped to the table and will go to sleep and his heart will stop beating."
'A base instinct'
Madeline Cohen, an assistant federal public defender who has represented another inmate involved in the case, said she can understand why some people say defendants in murder cases should endure a painful death.
"Why should we give them a humane death when they didn't give their victim a humane death? I think that's a base instinct, but that is not what the Constitution provides. ... When we allow our government to take illegal and unconstitutional actions in our name, then all of our rights are jeopardized," she said.
Cohen has represented Charles Warner, scheduled to die April 29 for the rape and murder of his girlfriend's 11-month-old daughter, Adriana Waller, in 1997.
Attorneys representing Lockett and Warner have fought a legal battle on multiple fronts against the state's execution-secrecy law.
Defense attorneys argue the state should have to reveal the sources of its drugs and other details to ensure the inmates aren't subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.
"States have turned to secrecy in the face of drug shortages. It's a reaction to this combination of poorly experimental execution procedures and some frighteningly botched executions," Cohen said.
An Oklahoma County District Court judge ruled the state law allowing Oklahoma to withhold most information about execution drugs and procedures violates the state Constitution.
The state has appealed that ruling to the state Supreme Court, but Lockett and Warner may be executed before the appeal is considered.
The state Court of Criminal Appeals has refused to grant a stay, saying it can only consider such requests from inmates challenging their convictions before the court.
Attorney General Scott Pruitt's office said in an email the state will fight to defend the secrecy law because pharmacies must be protected from "threats of violence and political pressure."
In a letter to defense attorneys April 1, the state announced it planned to use a new combination of drugs to execute the men: midazolam, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride.
Defense attorneys cite several cases in which inmates apparently experienced slow or painful deaths during executions.
"This drug regimen has never before been used to execute a prisoner, not only in Oklahoma, but anywhere in the United States," defense attorneys state in their request for a stay.
Cohen said protecting pharmacies should not be a reason for the state to "hide information" about the execution process.
"As far as the anti-death penalty activists, those people are trying to stop violence and killing," he said.
"They are mostly people of faith and conviction. The idea that they would threaten a pharmacist is hard to believe."
LaDonna Hollins, Lockett's stepmother, told an Oklahoma City television station last month her son deserved to be executed for his crimes but should not be made to suffer.
"I want to know what mixture of drugs are you going to use now. Is this instant? Is this going to cause horrible pain?" Hollins said.
"I know he's scared. He said he's not scared of the dying as much as the drugs administered."
Hollins told friends and relatives in a recent Facebook post: "The death penalty is to kill a man for his injustice ... by lethal injection not lethal suffocation."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 1, 2014 - 10:11am PT
Ron...You can't stuff them if the ants eat them...What were you thinking....?
Stimbo

Trad climber
Crowley Lake
May 1, 2014 - 10:32am PT
For Rotting Johnny.... "DOH!" yi,yi,yi,yi,yi
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 10:38am PT
How about Chief Broom and Randall Patrick McMurphy?

The title of the thread was vague so as not exclude anyone or thing. Rattlesnakes, birds with broken wings, animals at the Slaughter House Five - you name it.

There was a guy I heard about recently who pulled the eyes off of snails, then "the long version" execution in OK made it seem like something worth talking about.

Anyway, although it didn't really happen Chief Broom's act would seem to be humane to me.

Two ayes here:








.







Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 1, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
The death penalty is wrong only because it's based on "morality". The only reason for the death penalty is simple, WE DON'T NEED THESE PEOPLE.

What do you do with pure evil? For whatever reasons some people are. They force themselves on others distributing a huge, incredible amount of physical and mental hurt, pain and resulting grief. And it's not just on their victims, but also the families, loved ones and friends.

One person had no remorse for the woman being killed and being buried alive. The state of Ok tried to kil the rat in a 'humane' manner, but it failed. I have no mercy for the rat.

Just a sampling of comments, above.

What might not be clear unless said, is that these sentiments are EXACTLY the kind of thoughts that murderers have. So, if you want to know how that sort of thinking and behavior is created, that's it.

These would be the same sentiments that you would find if you walked into a prison, and asked convicted criminals. Law of the street. Frontier Justice.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 1, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
CALIFORNIA | LOCAL

Repeal the death penalty

July 14, 2011 | George Skelton, Capitol Journal

Waste, fraud and abuse — also known as California's death penalty. It's a colossal waste of money for arguably the state's most inefficient program. California has spent an estimated $4 billion to administer capital punishment over the past 33 years and executed only 13 people. That's about $308 million per execution. It's a shameless fraud on the public. Californians have consistently supported the death penalty and been led to believe that it exists. It really doesn't.
Messages 61 - 80 of total 239 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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