Discussion Topic |
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Messages 1 - 101 of total 101 in this topic |
zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 24, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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Anyone got any good links, resources, or knowledge of th
is disease?
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Fish Finder
Social climber
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Apr 24, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
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yeah google does
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 24, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
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My Dad died from it. I'm not looking forward to it.
But I couldn't reasonably call myself knowledgeable.
Donini is a believer in the radioactive "seeds". He seems to be living proof. I've climbed with the man, he's doing well.
I'm sure he'll chime in.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 24, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
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Almost universal in older men, a chronic condition. Fairly lethal in younger men. It took Zappa at 52(?)
Good luck Zip
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jstan
climber
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Apr 24, 2014 - 01:36pm PT
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Easy to google. Get your PSA and a good urologist. Now.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 24, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
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Live long enough and you'll get it.
My uncle just had surgery a couple months ago. Successful thus far. He recovered quickly.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Apr 24, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
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Get your PSA and a good urologist. Now.
BOTH of those are vital. People tend to take comfort in PSA tests, and they aren't all that predictive by themselves. They can diagnose too late.
My next door neighbor and best friend had a slightly elevated test after years of testing normal, which his doctor said warranted further tests. Two weeks later he was diagnosed as final stages, and two years later he passed away despite pretty aggressive treatment. He had hoped to see his daughters go to college. Didn't happen.
On the other hand, I have three climbing partners who got PC at 40, 45, and 50. All are leading relatively normal lives with chemo and the seeds. The oldest just turned 70 and just celebrated with a trek to 17K on the Nepal side of Everest. The others are about 55 and 60 and we are planning another Sierra climbing trip for the summer.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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First PSA test came back high.
Urologist wants me to go have 2nd test.
If that tests comes back same, he wants to do a biopsy.
My Dad had Prostate Cancer.
I'm 55.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 24, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
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stay on top of it and good luck to you.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
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It is argued that PSA tests are of minimal value. My routine physical exam did not include one, though at my option I can request it. The doctor gave me a reference to the literature. I don't have it handy right now, will look for it.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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Look for it.
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
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My husband, who is 62, was just diagnosed a few weeks ago. Elevated PSA, second PSA even higher. He then had a biopsy, which put him in the hospital with sepsis. This is highly uncommon, but does happen with the wrong antibiotic. We have since learned that a colon swab can be done before the biopsy to grow in the lab and know the specific antibiotic needed to prevent this. Now the infection is still rearing its ugly head four weeks later. He did not have the option of surgery because of it. So radiation and hormone treatment are on the agenda. He has had his first hormone injection to prevent the production of testosterone. You can e-mail me if you have specific questions. Lots of good info on the internet, but be sure to look at recent studies and resources. Things have changed rapidly in the treatment of prostate cancer.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
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The reference is not in my email. I have it written down in my notes. don't have notes available right now. Many factors can cause elevated PSA.
You can start here though.
Routine PSA Tests No Longer Recommended - American Urological Association
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/260087.php
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:32pm PT
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As jstan said, "a good urologist". Rob Raker got "overlooked" in his annual check up and right now I consider him a living miracle. Part of that miracle is due to his incredible love of life along with the awesome research he conducted to understand the decisions he needed to make.
As with Rob, I will keep you in my prayers, Zip.
Best, Lynne
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
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A correctly administered MRI can give you the same diagnostic results as a biopsy without the risks of this invasive procedure.
Do lots of research.
Urologists make thousands of dollars for every biopsy they preform (average 15 min). It is big business and the reason 20 million unnecessary biopsies are performed on men in America every year.
Get a second, third, forth... opinion before you decide on a Biopsy.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Apr 24, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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Been there Zip, PM me.
lars
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GLee
Social climber
MSO
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Apr 24, 2014 - 06:14pm PT
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Zip,
From reading the book 'Overdiagnosed' (Dr H Gilbert Welch, ISBN: 978-0-8070-2199-6, January 3, 2012), I learned of these Health Websites that may be of use to you:
http://www.ahrq.gov/
http://www.thecochranelibrary.com/view/0/index.html
http://www.nice.org.uk/
http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/centers-institutes/evidence-based-policy-center/derp/index.cfm
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/default.htm
And the US News & World Report on Doctors (also Hospitals, and Health & Wellness):
http://health.usnews.com/doctors
(just a brief check found this:
Blumberg, Jeremy MD
Urology
Los Angeles, CA
Ronald Reagan University of California Los Angeles Medical Center
#4 Nationally in Urology
who knows, maybe #1 is in the area
also, UCLA Med Center #4 in Urology)
Certainly not saying that you were 'Overdiagnosd'......
Hoping this might help,
Montucky GLee
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Apr 24, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
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"Curcumin sensitizes prostate cancer cells to tumor necrosis factor–related apoptosis-inducing ligand/Apo2L by inhibiting nuclear factor-κB through suppression of IκBα phosphorylation"
http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/3/7/803.full
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 24, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
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Kind thoughts your way Zip.
F*#k prostate cancer!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 24, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
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cowboy, ditto to All cancer.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 24, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
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Be sure to get the 2nd test. Maybe not now but ten or so years ago they were pulling prostrates at the first test.
If were mine, I'd get three, from different institutions.
BEST of LUCK to you. I hope this goes well in your favor.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Apr 24, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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Stay on top of it. Cancer treatments are growing by leaps and bounds in their effectiveness and side effect management.
Susan
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 24, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
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Yes, find a urologist in your area and get a second test. Most prostate cancers are very slow growing, and side effects of treatment might end being worse than doing nothing.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:38am PT
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pulling prostrates
Hmmm.
Freudian.
Definitely Freudian.
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GLee
Social climber
MSO
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
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Check your email.....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
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I was treated for prostate cancer a year ago. I had the type of non-aggressive cancer that gave me options....treat it or monitor it. After a year of monitoring, including two biopsies, I decided to be more aggressive. I thoroughly researched the options: surgery, and two types of radiation. After much deliberation I chose to have radioactive seeds implanted at The Huntsman Cancer Center in SLC. Best choice I ever made.
My physician was Dr. Jonathan Tward. He took an hour to personally explain the options based on the very latest research. Tward has a PHD in addition to his Medical Degree and his intelligence shines through. The Huntsman Center has a culture where everybody from the receptionist to your doctor makes YOU feel special....not the case in most hospitals.
My latest PSA was 0.6 and I have had very few side effects. I heartily recommend Dr. Tward and the Huntsman Cancer Center.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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Always forthcoming and straightforward, Donini. Thanks.
I know one other person who went with the seeds Jim mentioned and was very pleased with the result.
There are other treatments that I have not seen mentioned here, cryotherapy and proton therapy.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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Best wishes. Be an intelligent collaborator in your treatment.
I have been working with my dad and his prostate cancer. The cure has been difficult, and I wish that he had made better use of his borrowed time.
Dad's prostate was removed 13 years ago, and they followed up with radioactive seeds. This was not positioned optimally or he was fragile. In any case, he ended up with severe urinary incontinence. They attempted several surgeries to fix that. None of it worked well. Now he has a permanent bag.
He suffered from lack of energy due to no testosterone. They prescribed a cream. He was not a compliant user, used less and less because it wasn't working (in all actuality it was because he was failing to take enough). Thus began the injections to ensure that he got enough testosterone and had energy. This worked for awhile - until the cancer recurred. Now it has spread to his spine. He is in a new immuniological therapy to slow the growth of those tumors. At this point, the prognosis is for 28 months of life, though not all high quality as the disease progresses in his spine.
Overtreatment can be a problem. I don't think Dad was overtreated, but I do think that perhaps a more skilled surgeon could have reduced the frustrating years and painful surgerues which failed to address his plumbing issues. He has lived a long time with this disease, and some of that time we thought that the cancer was gone. It must be tough to live a life trying to squeeze out as much joy as possible while also being very vigilent.
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colasanti
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
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Here's an excellent reference regarding prostate cancer: "Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer" by Dr. Patrick Walsh. I was able to purchase it at Barnes & Noble.
I had an elevated PSA last November, had a follow-up PSA which was also elevated. My urologist recommended having a biopsy which I did in early January of this year. The biopsy showed the presence of cancer with a Gleason score of 7 (on the cusp of being an aggressive cancer). I had robotic laparoscopic surgery in early February to remove my prostate with a successful outcome. The cancer was totally confined to my prostate and I have had minimal side effects. A follow-up PSA test 3 months after surgery showed an undetectable PSA reading.
Hope my experience helps.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 27, 2014 - 10:58am PT
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Vitamin D3 supplementation has a large number of beneficial effects, including apparenly impacting prostate cancer. The combination of low dose aspirin (83mg) and vitamin D3 is even more beneficial.
I'd suggest getting your serum D3 measured.
The results of this clinical study suggest that supplementation with vitamin D3 at 4000IU per day may benefit patients with early stage, low-risk prostate cancer on active surveillance, because of the improved outcome (a decreased number of positive cores at repeat biopsy) in more than half of the subjects enrolled in the trial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23220550
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 27, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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You are 55 which is a bit young.....be very aggressive about diagnosis. Go to the BEST and get multiple opinions. Early onset PC can be more aggressive!
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MikeL
Trad climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
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Apr 27, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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Don't know your ability to assimilate scientific information, but I would (i) favor physicians who talk and can explain the latest research studies; (ii) read as much as you can about it yourself. Google scholar can help. Research studies can overwhelm you, but the days of putting your faith fully in the hands of your doctor are over. You're not in charge of executing the procedures, but you are in charge of making the decision on your treatment.
BTW, each and every cancer and its treatment tends to be idiosyncratic in its effects. Just because something worked for someone doesn't mean it will work equally for you.
Be well, and best of luck.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Apr 27, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
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Ditto what Donini says, radiation may be the best treatment in most cases.
There is a lot of complex and conflicting data, but at your age treatment is probably wise.
In men over 80 most men die with, not because of prostate cancer!!!!
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steve shea
climber
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Apr 27, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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I was diagnosed at 59. Had surgery. I had been getting tested annually and was always found to have low PSA. Then at 59 the number spiked up but still within safe criteria. They said come back in three months. I did and it was up again but still normal. My Doc was very aggressive and did further tests, biopsies which were found cancerous! The acceleration of the numbers, even though "normal" is what got his attention. Other's may not have been so on top of it. I had some follow up radiation and was tested every few months for five years. I was declared cancer free about two years ago. PSA is now 0.02...nothing almost.
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Apr 27, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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Check out the PCA3 test. It is a urine test and in many cases it is a better indicator than PSA test. It is newer and some insurance companies won't pay for it. I had it and the results showed I had a 40% chance of having Prostate Cancer. I had a biopsy which showed no cancer present. This was my second biopsy. My PSA was always under 2 until I was 64 years old then it started going up, eventually ending up at 9.2 at age 68. Last test was 6.8 at age 69. As was previously pointed out the total PSA number isn't as important as how rapidly the numbers rise over time. Prostate Cancer is tough to diagnose but things you can do are get yearly Digital Rectal Exams, the PSA test and, if possible, the PCA3 test. Biopsy is a good test but probably not one that is done without other indicators pointing toward it. I haven't looked into the effectiveness of CAT or MRI's. Bottom line is you are going to live till you die so get out and climb. (or whatever it is that you do) I volunteered for a clinical trial to help provide better information so that you younger people would have a better idea of how to prevent Prostate Cancer. The study was called SELECT. It was initiated because there was some evidence that Selenium or Vitamin E might help prevent Prostate Cancer. The study was stopped early because it found that rather than prevent it, in certain groups of men, it encouraged it. Hope this helps.
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Mateo Pee Pee
Trad climber
Ivory Tower PDX
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Apr 27, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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Zip,
There is much good advice posted in this discussion and would only reiterate that: 1) each individual is unique in terms of their need and response to different treatments, 2) do your research, 3) find the best doctor available, and 4) pursue a clear diagnosis ASAP.
As a point of reference, I was diagnosed at age 46 and only later discover a fraternal uncle had died of PC at age 52. In his case, our family was under the false impression that his death was caused by the cancer's re-manifestation in another part of his body.
A PSA test by a nonconventional doctor (i.e., a doctor who gave all males over 40 a PSA test as part of their physical) saved me and I have since recommended my nephews to get tested after age 40. I had a prostatectomy - the right choice in my case - and was clambering up Cotopoxi 6 months later.
Best of luck.
Keith
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jstan
climber
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Apr 27, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
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You see a lot of advice concerning "watchful waiting". If you are younger than 70 or other family members have had it, get on it right away. Post haste. Ask yourself what you will say when you are 65 and the hot CTI test shows you have it in your bones.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Apr 27, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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Sorry to hear this Zip.
GLee is pointing you in the right direction. Reagan UCLA Medical Center has fantastic cancer docs of all kinds.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 28, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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A b s t r a c t
ERG rearrangements (most commonly
transmembrane protease, serine 2 [TMPRSS2]:ERG
[T2:ERG] gene fusions) have been identified in
approximately 50% of prostate cancers . Quantification
of T2:ERG in postdigital rectal examination urine, in
combination with PCA3, improves the performance
of serum prostate-specific antigen for prostate cancer
prediction on biopsy. Here we compared urine
T2:ERG and PCA3 scores with ERG+ (determined
with immunohistochemical analysis) and total
prostate cancer burden in 41 mapped prostatectomies.
Prostatectomies had a median of 3 tumor foci (range,
1-15) and 2.6 cm of summed linear tumor dimension
(range, 0.6-7.1 cm). Urine T2:ERG score correlated
most with summed linear ERG+ tumor dimension and
number of ERG+ foci (rs = 0.68 and 0.67, respectively,
both P < .001). Urine PCA3 score showed weaker
correlation with both number of tumor foci (rs =
0.34, P = .03) and summed linear tumor dimension
(rs = 0.26, P = .10). In summary, we demonstrate a
strong correlation between urine T2:ERG score and
total ERG+ prostate cancer burden at prostatectomy,
consistent with high tumor specificity.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 29, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Great lead z!
http://www.nature.com/pcan/journal/v16/n2/full/pcan20134a.html
Abstract
Background: The TMPRSS2-ERG gene fusion resulting in ERG overexpression has been found in around 50% of prostate cancers (PCa) and is a very early event in tumorigenesis. Most studies have reported on selected surgical cohorts with inconsistent results. We hypothesized that ERG gene rearrangements impact tumor development and investigated the frequency of ERG overexpression in the context of clinicopathological tumor characteristics.
Methods: ERG overexpression (ERG+ or ERG-) was determined by immunohistochemistry (IHC) in 1039 radical prostatectomy (RP) tumors and association with PSA, D’Amico risk score, histopathology, biochemical recurrence, body mass index and age of PCa cases was analyzed.
Results: ERG+ was associated with younger age at diagnosis (P<0.0001), lower serum PSA (P=0.002) and lower prostate volume (PV) (P=0.001). It was most frequent in the youngest age quartile (55 years, 63.9% ERG+) and decreased constantly with increasing age to 40.8% in the oldest age quartile (67 years, P<0.0001). In the PSA range <4 ng ml−1 the frequency of ERG positivity was 60.2% compared with 47.5 and 49.1% in the PSA ranges 4–10 and 10 ng ml−1, respectively. In the first age quartile, ERG+ patients had lower median serum PSA and fPSA% and smaller PV. In the highest age quartile tumor volume (TV) was increased. Similar differences were observed in the low PSA range. Multivariate analysis identified the first age quartile as a predictor for ERG status (odds ratios (OR) 2.05, P=0.007). No association was found with the D’Amico progression risk score and with biochemical tumor recurrence.
Conclusions: ERG+ tumors manifest clinically at lower PSA levels and their prevalence is age dependent. This suggests acceleration of tumor development by ERG overexpression that results in earlier tumor detection in young patients. Long-term results are warranted to determine the impact of ERG overexpression on disease outcome.
Keywords: age; ERG frequency distribution; ERG overexpression; early-onset prostate cancer; PSA screening
Introduction
Prostate cancer (PCa) is the most common solid neoplasm in the developed countries accounting for almost 30% of cancer incident cases in men. It is the third leading cause of male cancer deaths in Europe1, 2 and second in the USA although an estimated 90% of newly diagnosed cases are local or regional with a 5-year relative survival approaching almost 100%.3 A frequently occurring genetic alteration of prostate tumors is a gene rearrangement involving transcription factors of the E26 transformation specific (ETS) family and an androgen-regulated gene. The most common event found in 40–60% of PCa cases results in the fusion of the transcription factor ERG and the androgen regulated transmembrane serine protease 2 (TMPRSS2) gene and leads to androgen-stimulated overexpression of ERG.4 Less common are rearrangements involving the ETS transcription factors ETV1, 4 and 5 or other androgen regulated 5′ partners such as SLC45A3.5
An ERG rearrangement regardless of the 5′ partner is highly specific for PCa and only found in tumor cells or a subset of high-grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia lesions.6, 7 Therefore, analysis of an ERG rearrangement is beginning to have a role in routine pathology.8, 9 The fusion status can reliably be determined using fluorescence in situ hybridization detecting the gene rearrangement,4, 10 by PCR measuring expression of a fusion transcript4 or using IHC detecting the overexpressed ERG protein.11 Positive immunohistochemical staining highly correlates with the ERG gene rearrangement status determined by fluorescence in situ hybridization or mRNA analyses.11, 12
The ERG rearrangement occurs early in prostate carcinogenesis7 and is then present at around the same frequency through all tumor stages up to metastatic, therapy-resistant disease.13 Despite numerous studies the implication of this common genetic alteration on tumor progression and consequences for the management and treatment of PCa have yet to be defined. This may in part be due to relative few studies that have focused on large well-characterized patient populations. The majority of studies reported no association between biochemical recurrence and ERG rearrangement status.14, 15 Conversely, population-based Watchful Waiting studies have found associations with PCa specific death.16, 17 Recent investigations suggested that gene-fusion driven ERG overexpression increases self-renewal and stimulates epithelial to mesenchymal transition.18, 19
We hypothesized that ERG overexpression is an early driver of tumor development and investigated the frequency of ERG overexpression in dependence on patient age and clinicopathological characteristics. The prevalence of ERG overexpression was investigated retrospectively in a large cohort of the Tyrolean PCa patients, the majority of whom have been diagnosed in an age-adjusted PSA-based screening program for early detection and treatment of PCa.20, 21 We observed an increased frequency of ERG overexpression in younger PCa patients and association with lower serum PSA.
Conclusions
ERG overexpression is significantly more frequent in tumors detected at a younger age and is associated with lower PSA levels in this age group. In tumors detected at an older age, ERG overexpression is significantly associated with a higher TV but not with differences in PSA. ERG overexpression seems to accelerate carcinogenesis and drive prostate tumors to early clinical manifestation and detection but have no effect on tumor progression.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
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got second test results today.
higher then first.
doctor is recommending a biopsy immediately.
time to do some research, and read what everyone wrote.
thanks for the input.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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God bless ya, zip! Get this thing taken care of. Cheers, bro.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Prayers for you Dude! Do your homework and keep joy and peace in your heart. Very healing not to worry, tho many have plenty of reason to. Call if you want to. lynne
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Zip,
Dr. Michael Platt of Platt Wellness Center in Palm Desert healed a 60 year old friend of mine of prostrate cancer without radiation or surgery. Did it through diet and supplements and, I believe, 2 prescription meds. He's against biopsies as they can introduce cancer cells into the bloodstream.
The guy is a medical genius; I've worked with him on hormone issues and have an enormous respect for him.
His phone number is (760) 836-3232. His website: www.drplatt.com
Wishing you the best.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2014 - 10:45am PT
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L,
thanks.
not sure what to do right now.
it's not a right or wrong decision i have to make.
so many different options.
hard to figure which is the right direction to go in.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Do not treat it with "alternative medicine"
The stuff simply doesn't work, show me a single randomized placebo controlled trial that says it cures prostate cancer!!!!!
The evidence doesn't exist, plain and simple!!!!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Do not treat it with "alternative medicine" Excellent advice.
I'll add one thing though. The treatments, regardless of type, will mess with your digestion and nutrition. Few doctors recognize the importance of treating your whole system, not just the disease.
Find a good nutritionist whose emphasis is diet and possibly supplements specific to your illness and medications. There are no Magic Cures. If your Doc or his office are on the ball they should be able to recommend someone.
My wife is a cancer infusion nurse and sees the results. Among others, a friend of ours has a very serious cancer (yes, there are more serious forms than prostate) and our nutritionist friend has been helping her. My wife is impressed (but not surprised) how well our friend is doing.
You've caught it early, The Force Is With You.
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Mateo Pee Pee
Trad climber
Ivory Tower PDX
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Zip,
The key issue in my mind is that you are still young at 55. On average, the life expectancy for US males is about 78. I doubt you and most of the people on this forum are average and, if you consider Donini, Wiessner, Becky, or Cassin as your role models, you could be climbing above your current grade at that age. Hence, I would make put a strong emphasis on longevity when choosing a treatment.
As noted by others, I appreciate the potential of alternative medicine but it is considered alternative because it currently lacks, for whatever reason, a strong scientific basis be it theory, sample size, controls, etc.
Infections and the side effects of prostate biopsies are always a concern but the the percent of infection is low:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/biopsies-for-prostate-cancer-can-leave-men-with-infections-that-are-hard-to-treat/2013/12/02/1fbc40f4-279c-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_story.html
Although a small sample size (about 5) no-one I know has experienced problems related with a biopsy. Of course that would fall well within the statistical probabilities noted above. The questions are: what are the alternatives and what are the advantages and disadvantages of seeking out other options?
Lastly, life following prostate cancer and treatment can be as and even more fulfilling than before.
Best,
Keith
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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The only answer at your age (in my opinion) is the da Vinci robotic surgical removal of the prostate. One of my good friends had elevated PSA as you have had, and at his age (under 60) decided to go with removal. He's been fine ever since.
At donini's age (and mine as well), the Palladium "seeds" are an effective option. Thankfully I don't have the problem, but underwent the Green Light Laser "ream job" a few years back for an enlarged prostate.
You really don't want to get involved with hormonal manipulation using Lupron unless the urologist says it's the best option.
Get rid of the prostate and get rid of the possibility of metastasis.
Best of luck Zip!
Rodger
P.S. Pay attention to Ezra Ellis' advice ^^^^^^^
I had a friend who tried "alternative medicine" for prostate cancer, and died within a year of it's diagnosis.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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hard to figure which is the right direction to go in.
Go in the direction of getting as much information about your condition as soon as possible. Get the combined urine/PSA test first. Then based on that decide whether to have the biopsy.
In the background continue looking into treatments.
It's hard to make a good decision when you don't have the whole picture.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, zip...
how are you today?
we are here... hang in there...
sending you an email, too...
(if your email works here) ...
prayers and may you find a solution that you know is the 'right route' and may it lead to new hopes...
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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if by chance you end up on chemotherapy
Stay completely OFF sugars. They can stimulate cancer cell growth.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2014 - 06:54am PT
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It took over a month to find out that I do have Prostate Cancer.
Kinda funny that the doctors tell you that they need to get you in right away, but it took around 5 weeks to get appointments, tests, and procedures done.
I was informed over the phone, and I meet with the doctor tomorrow in his office.
I am looking for some suggestions on what questions I should be asking.
Thanks
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Find out your Gleason Score and ask the doctor if you are a candidate for watchful surveillance or if more aggressive action is recommended.
If you want to aggressively treat it....SHOP AROUND. Urologists are surgeons and will recommend that option. Also consult with oncologists about the radiation options. I chose to get radioactive seed implants at the Huntsman Cancer Center in SLC and was very pleased with the treatment and the results.
The fact that it took a month to get your results would send up a RED FLAG for me about your current physician.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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ok, thanks, i'm going to look in to that.
It took 4 days to get results on blood tests, 3 weeks to get an appointment for the biopsy, and then another 4 days for results of the biopsy. the longest wait was for the biopsy appointment.
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jstan
climber
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Zip:
I am coming to accept the following as true. If one has ever been a male there is no permanent cure for PC. You have to stop pretending you are young and resolve to stay on top of it till life is over. We brush our teeth every day so PC is not the only burden old age places on one.
At 58 I had an old school prostatectomy that did not get all of the cancer and my PSA bounced around 0.4 for eighteen years. Then it increased to 1.0 and I had CTI and a hot bone scan showing no evidence of metastasis. The tumor shrank under androgens so the negative biopsy did not fool us about it not being cancer. When the present radiation therapy ( success estimated at 80% at 5 years) is done I will stay on androgen therapy for awhile as PC cells can't live with out testosterone. If I hold it off for eight years we will be in a regime where chemo agents have been targeted for specific cell types and patient genetics. It will then either be something else or the chemo itself that finishes the job.
In a way this all makes sense. These things coming at old age help one to realize appreciating the present moment and trying, finally, to do something worthwhile was what life really was all about the whole time. It is just clearer now.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Zip
Eleven years ago I was in the same situation as you are now.
Founding out early in the game made a difference. It gave you some time but the more time you wait to decide what to do: the faster the chance that cancer gets past the nearby lymph nodes and when that does it starts spreading everywhere. They did two biopsies on me since the first one did not show anything, the second [ three months later] did by taking additional 8 more samples or pinching’s because it is a hit or miss, even one cm from the other sample might not show anything. Not to scare you but you have a couple of months to research, study before you decide what’s best or the direction.
Result of Agent Orange they said? My dad was in his late 70’s and had no signs and if he did would not be the cause of his death since it would be a slow growth for him.
You start listening to all the options you have: seeding, radiation to kill cancer cells or shrink it, cutting, digging, ripping it out and leaving massive scars, proton was another [has good results] but still leaves the prostate in your body. I have a friend that went this route [proton] and he is cancer free and has been for 11 years. They build a body cast to protect those areas that will not be harmed during treatment, only the one spot that needs it. Recall 15 mins a session and 40 of them? Cost $70,000 [ 10 years ago price now ?]. Today under Obama Care $150.00 *don’t quote me on that one. Maybe $450.00.
Then you will need to research the doctors you are talking to [looking at his/their track record or references, any complaints, law suits against him/his team] and the main question?: How many of these operations have you performed or done. In my case one said three, another 5. Ok! Thanks, bye, bye and walked out the door.
I had Laparoscopic surgery to remove it since it has minimally invasive surgery plus faster recovery. I said the hell with it get it out remove it so I would not have to think down the road is it going to flare up or do something in the future. I have been cancer free for over eleven years. PSA zero. Funning thing is that you still have testosterone and getting any testosterone shots or gels could flare or wake up that cancer?
Having surgery has its risks.
Number one thing guys asked or bring up and I asked as well is sex. You know will be you able to have an erection. You mean there might be a chance as in “No, Pus….. well I will leave it at that but you get the picture.
50/50 chance, yes, no and maybe; depends: 1 out 20, maybe 1 out of 50 that it might come back or eventually will come back.
There are 2 tiny bundles of nerves that run on either side of the prostate. These nerves control erections. Nerve-sparing approach is extremely critical so the surgeon will try not to injure these nerves.
The other problem will be the bladder so those nerves are critical as well, a mistake you end up using a tube and a bag for the rest of your life.
Anyway it usually takes at least a few months to a year after surgery to have an erection because the nerves have been handled during the operation and won't work properly for a while.
Last week just talk to a good friend and we were discussing a friend of ours who decided not to have anything done in regards to the prostate heard the horror stories and felt main concern was his sex issue because he felt screwing was more important than living a full life 75-80 maybe 90. Well he’s dead and we found out another one that died as well because that’s the road both wanted to take. Both in their late 50’s.
So there can be issues with sex and ask your doctor.
If you are one of those and the doc does/doesn’t mess up you still or there are aids to help you. Best one is using a needle with serum med called TriMix into that area half an hour before you plan to have sex. Last for about an hour, add Viagra just before the injection as a lot of guys do known as cocktailing. No side effects, no harm as long as you are not over abusing them or adding a bottle of whiskey. In fact one does not even have to have prostate problems to take these. You achieve the same feelings as you did before the only difference this time is what is called dry where before it would be wet.
As for radiation or proton there would be no anesthesia. If you go the route of massive surgery or Laparoscopic then there is anesthesia.
Need to talk to both your doctor and the Anesthesiologist under your care. Make sure he has a good record. This is very important for your recovery when they release you mainly what could happen years later in the future.
If you do choose surgery asking the time that you will be under is very important and I will repeat it again and this is what you need to discuss with both reason:
Not that this not new but since better ways to study and equipment both from EU as well as here in the US on research where Anesthesia [neurotoxicity] and the adverse effects from surgery are causing problems. You are talking about cognition dysfunction disorders, memory loss, reasoning and attention just to name a few. They are finding that this is good indicator for Alzheimer. So if you did go this route how many hours do they plan to do have your procedure done 3 hours, 4 and what or if it went past 6 hours of you being knocked out. You will not feel these effects at first but 3 years go by, 6 then 10 and you are starting to wonder why I am half brain dead or starting in that direction.
Since I did not have a choice or the option of Proton therapy back then I most likely would have chosen that one first. Laparoscopic surgery was quite new back then; I was the fifth person in the US to have it done. Understand that now time is shorter for a lot of procedures with this technology so still would look or consider it. The other reason you get a second chance since you did not get radiation. If get a different cancer then can radiate it: the less the better.
Also heard that they now have new drugs as in chemotherapy treatment just for the prostate that are not as evasive as they were years ago. Like hair loss these new ones are better. Guessing another option to consider but again do your homework.
Also if you did or chose surgery make sure you it scheduled on a Tuesday or Wednesday.
Anyway good luck, the hardest part is what to do and which one. So just wanted to add a few things with my experience to help or confuse you in your decision. Hopefully the help part.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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The fact that it took a month to get your results would send up a RED FLAG for me about your current physician. THE TRUTH.
I went from "something doesn't seem right" appointment with my primary (2 day wait for an appointment) to a 2 day wait after that for my appointment with a Stanford oncologist, to surgery 5 days later with confirmed Dx of ovarian cancer. (You may remember we first met at Trash Can Rock in JT just after my last chemo and I was still bald...you were climbing with Rodger). Time to fast track.
I know next to nothing about the protocol for prostate but I know a lot about shifting into super low gear, staying as collected as possible and still living your life while managing a daunting physical and emotional challenge. Climbers and like minded hearty folks, like you, have a reserve of strength to pull from that a lot of folks don't have. These early days as you're exploring options are gut wrenching...then eventually you do the job that needs to be done and don't let the fact you have cancer become your lifestyle.
With your great sense of humor I'm sure you'll weather treatment with a lot of resilience. Now go kick butt of your care providers to get MOVING!
Susan
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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I met with the doctors last night for almost an hour.
I was fully armed with all the info I have learned from this thread.
He gave me the following results:
Stage : T1C
Gleason score : 3+4
PSA : 5
He says that radiation and or surgery are best options.
He didn't know what the word Jingus meant, but I still feel pretty good about him.
His associate would be doing the surgery laparoscopically, with a robot.
This surgeon has done this procedure over 2000 times.
I'm going to set up an appointment with her next week.
I also talked to anesthesiologist about how long I would be out.
She felt under three hours.
I'm also going to set appointment with radiologist too.
Doctors were very impressed with all the info I had, and questions.
They asked where I got all the info. I told them from Suoertopo.
They had never heard of it. I suggested they check it out. They said they would.
I got a lot more research to do, but it appears surgery is bed option.
Doctors ended consultation with the standard
"we are cautiously optimistic of this diagnosis and prognosis", or something like that.
Get busy living, or get busy dying.
Andrew Dufrane
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, zip... i been wondering how you were doing...
will surely have you in my prayers and wishing you the best outcome here...
hang in there, you are important to folks...
god bless...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Good luck Zip, stay positive. Thanks to all who contributed good info to the thread.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Get busy living, or get busy dying.
Stick with the former....the other will take care of itself just fine.
Sounds like you have a good plan of action. I don't know what your numbers mean but I'm hoping you are beginning to feel a sense of relief that, finally, a road map. Time to shift into low gear, nose to grindstone, and get the job done. Keep being an advocate for your health care, and yes having information will put you in a good position to be a partner in your healthcare.
Lots of thoughts and good wishes going your way.
You can do this!
Susan
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Best results whichever direction you choose. More than makes the ST forum worth the price we all pay for it.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Your Gleason score is not very high. How old are you? With men 60 or older with a Gleason score of 6 watchful surveillance is one of the options.
Robotic surgery has not been proven anymore effective than regular surgery.
Urologists are going to push surgery because that is their game. Look into radiation options...I had very few side effects from my seeds implant.
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jstan
climber
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Carefully look over the surgical report. If the cytological tests in the margins showed remaining cancer then it was not all removed. The surgeon will discuss it with you. One of your options then will be radiation therapy. You need to discuss with your doctor the pros and cons of doing salvage radiation therapy right away or doing it later. You will be tracking your PSA.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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For a 2013 study of cryosurgery results, Google
"Focal Cryotherapy in the Treatment of Localized Prostate Cancer"
It's a pdf file, I can't get the exact address
Discussion
The optimal management for localized prostate cancer
is controversial. While men with low-risk and selected
intermediate-risk prostate cancer can be managed by
active surveillance, the majority of men with early
prostate cancer are radically treated with either surgery
or radiation therapy. With better patient selection
by defining the biological potential of the cancer and
with improvements in technology to follow these men,
active surveillance will become more widely used. For
low-risk and some intermediate-risk patients, active
surveillance is usually recommended since the cancer
is noninvasive and has an overall survival rate comparable
to other radical treatments.2,3 Nevertheless,
there is a subset of men with early cancer who will
benefit from active treatment; however, they also may
benefit from focal treatment of their localized cancer
without subjecting them to the potential risks and
complications of radical local treatment.
See also:
Application of New Biotechnologies for Prostate Cancer Treatment (Comparative Analysis of Brachytherapy, Cryosurgery, Laparoscopy, Robotic Arm and Cyberknife Methods)
http://omicsgroup.org/journals/application-of-new-biotechnologies-for-prostate-cancer-treatment-2167-065X.1000113.php?aid=19022
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2014 - 08:00am PT
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Hey Man-
Get SOMETHING done and soon. I personally would do either the Robotic Surgery at your age, or at my age the "seed" implants.
Fortunately you have caught this at an early enough stage to eliminate the problem.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
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Decided to go with the robotic surgery.
Been almost 24 hours, and I still feel like crap.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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It'll get better, man. Surgery is always tough on you. Do what they tell you, rest, and work on getting better. It's a participative sport.
Be well,
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jstan
climber
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In the robo surgery maybe they don't put you as far under. I had the cut and slash with no problem. Except I recently went back for the burn. No discomfort there either.
Don't forget about all the progress being made. Last week there were reports that the attachment points used by cancerous cells, any cancer, could be blocked, and could do away with the need for cytotoxins, No chemotherapy.
Edit:
Very strange. Looks like nearly everyone was put down for awhile. My memory must be even worse than I thought.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Hang in there Zip. I had the laparoscopic surgery over 3 years ago. With the help of friends I was back climbing within months. I'm sure you will be fine.
lars
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Zip-
My friend was able to go elk hunting less than 3 months after his robotic surgery, and that included riding a 4-wheeler. He said he had to be pretty careful but everything worked well in his case. His comment: every day afterwards, after the first 2-3 days, he felt better. The second week, you should have most of the discomfort behind you.
So...good on ya' man!
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Been there. Best part is getting the catheter out in a few days.
Best of luck.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Yeah Zip......getting those ugly buggers OUT OF THERE.
You'll feel like sh#t on a shingle for awhile. Eventually it's justa memory
This was the first day I met you and Brokedownclimber in person at J Tree.
If I can do it, you can too!
You got this in the bag, Buddy....and do ya get to keep your hair!!!
Susan
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Zip-
I recall from my prostate Green Light Laser ream job that the best thing going to happen is getting that effing catheter pulled out. And then---taking a real dump after the pain pills wear off.
Things.
Will.
Get.
Better!
Rodger, aka BDC.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 6, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
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A guess the surgery went ok. Not sure if the cancer escaped the Prosate.
I don't feel very good.
Hope to be paroled soon.
Thanks for all the kind thoughts and words.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Take a nap, you're only going to feel better from here on!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Hi Zip,
You look Grate even in hospital garb.:)
I will always have a smile in my heart for you. One of the first to take me climbing after Dan went to heaven. Thanks for that. You are in my prayers.
Cheers, Lynne
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jstan
climber
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During surgery they stain the field as they go, to make sure they have it. Then afterward the removed materials are stained to see if there was a free margin. If they did not get it all your PSA will not go to zero. One of the next possible treatments is salvage radiation plus androgen therapy.
Your tool bag is filledl to the top with tools.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Best wishes, Zip.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Zip-
You already are looking better; this is another "best wishes" BUMP!
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Best wishes ..
Hope you feel much better tomorrow.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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One thing that is kinda cool is not having to get up 4 times a night to pee.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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When does the catheter come out? That's the BIG step.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2014 - 11:07am PT
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A week.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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The bionic looking man. Hopefully some REALLY cute nurses!
Take care!
Susan
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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You'll feel like a new man once the catheter is out. This was really a disguised "bump."
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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This is a pretty common procedure, one that my grandpa has several years ago. You'll be good to go after a bit of healing time.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 11:42am PT
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It's been almost a week now, and gotta few things going through my head.
Is there more cancer in me?
Will I ever be able to pee normally?
Sex?
Not sure about that stuff, but I'm definitely gonna start climbing again.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 10, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
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You WILL be able to pee normally, and re: sex....that's entirely up to you. I speak highly for Cialis. I had my prostate ream job done 3 years ago, by the Green Light Laser method. Everything is fine.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 10, 2014 - 12:46pm PT
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hey there say, zip... had been wondering about you... thanks for the update here...
say, can you send an address??
prayers and keep getting well...
so many in your corner, trying to keep your spirits up!!
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
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Arthroscopic surgery rocks.
I just have 6 holes in my stomach.
Doctor says it could take a month for the swollen stomach to shrink.
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Gene
climber
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Sep 12, 2014 - 07:12pm PT
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Damn! I wish my swollen stomach would shrink in a month.
Heal well and quickly.
Gene
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thebravecowboy
climber
strugglin' to make time to climb
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Sep 12, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
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hey Zip,
for a while there, it looked like '99 was to be the last year for my old man. somber times.
but he beat the beast, and has become a true teacher of enlightenment since.
no prostate, but he still gets his kicks.
read some thich nhat hanh, take your loved ones on a flatwater paddle through an autumnal lake of stagnant water, embrace the future.
I believe in you.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
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Arthroscopic surgery DOES rock.
I have some friends with little kids, and they wonder that I have more than one belly button.
Everything has its upsides and tradeoffs. Even cancer and cancer treatment, believe it or not. You'll see.
Be well, brother, and remember that you are not alone.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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5 weeks since surgery.
Side effects are exactly what doctor described. Unpleasant, uncomfortable, but better than the alternative.
Have doctor's appointment today, and should get more info.
Have a target date of 11/1 to get start climbing again.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 10, 2014 - 07:52am PT
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Rock on zip!
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