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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 16, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
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Two days ago my partner Thom Englebach and I were hiking up a trail trying to find "The Thief" at the base of the Leaning Tower. We encountered a young climber on his way down from "such and such" cliff who informed us that we were going the wrong way and should start traversing left. What are the climbs like at "such and such" cliff like, I asked. He paused noting my lined face and grey hair then replied that it was "modern" climbing. Oh....and what is "modern" climbing I responded. You know, steep 5.12's. We continued traversing left, found "The Thief" and had a great time plugging cams into a not too steep Indian Creek style crack....not too modern it seems.
Yesterday we went up to do "The Book of Job," a climb I did the first free ascent of 42 years ago with Rik Rieder. My only memory of the climb was that the left wall was very wavy, Rik and I rated it 10b, not at all modern. After a pleasant first pitch we got into the bowels of the beast, the next four pitches were steep, almost modernly steep, and the climbing was gloriously thuggish. Caloric expenditure was extreme and molar muscle action a must. Techniques rarely used in "modern" climbing were called into action.....arm bars, heel toes and every stem position possible. 10b eh....I sandbagged myself, felt like an "old school" climber again and not just old. What a workout and only for 5.10 credit.
Okay ST'ers, you all know climbs that require the full bag of tricks, climbs that no number chasing climber would go near. The Book of Job is my candidate, let's hear about some more gnarly, thuggish nightmares that offer more bang for the buck than the rating would indicate.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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I'll descend a bit, Jim. Peter Pan is rated 5.9 (and Kamps originally rated it 5.8) and has an undercling, a tiny bit of face climbing, a tricky mantle move (for me, anyway) and just about every combination of offwidth and squeeze chimney. It's admittedly not as steep as the "modern" stuff, but plenty of bang for a 5.9 buck. Maybe not as varied as The Book of Job, and maybe not that much of a sandbag, but full value plus.
John
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Apr 16, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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Its all good if you're having fun
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 16, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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I'll bite. Howse about the Double Dihedrals on Wildcat cliff in NC.
*5.9* har har har!!
Spectcular position, pretty awesome undercling crux, then runout to the top which is right under a mcmansions deck!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
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gnarly, thuggish nightmares that offer more bang for the buck than the rating would indicate. Pretty much any 5.10 ow or chimney.
Lost Arrow Chimney would be an example.
The usual ratings don't capture endurance climbs that well.
When I did Book of Job a few years back, I wasn't surprised to see lots of bail gear up on the route. We cleaned it as we climbed past.... :-)
Some people have apparently mistaken it for Braille Book. It doesn't look like a 5.8 to me, though. (Doubly overhanging, etc.)
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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I got it! Lemb... no wait, wrong question. Right in Yosemite I'm sure Steck Salathe and Ahab would be consensus medal winners in this category. If "not modern" allows for a step up to 5.11, one imagines that Karma, still unrepeated after 28 years at "only" 5.11d, qualifies as nightmarish and full value albeit maybe not the climbing style you had in mind.
Further afield, just about anything at Seneca Rocks gives more challenge than the numbers and climb lengths would indicate, more mental but also sometimes physical as well - especially if you pass by little hidden protection opportunities and wander off into the desert of fear and steepness for long distances.
Then, for "walk up" mountains, one might suggest Mt Robson, specifically the Emperor Ridge, as a tougher tick than its altitude, road proximity, and technical grade suggest.
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Ropeboy
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
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The "modern climbs" phrase give me the same feeling I had a few years ago when I first learned that I was considered a "trad" climber. Wait? What? Who made that up? Wait? What? My gift to the young sport climbers would be the "stiff for the grade" (sandbagged)three part 5.8 climb Gollem at the base of El Cap. It has a long approach, an awkward width part at the bottom, a skin chewing crack under a corner, and a not so obvious layback part at the top.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 16, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
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It's all good till somebody puts an guide out.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
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I figgered what made it modern was the obligatory selfie.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
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I just love the "modern" climbs comment! Very funny!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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You seem to have eschewed the "modern approach", which would be just a park and stroll, by choosing Book of Job.
It's funny how I thought of Peter Pan, like Fresno John did, with its f-with'em rating. And an extended approach.
Seriously, then, the TR about Chockstone Chimney was plainly about the Lark Ages...
Not to mention Gollem...
You sound like you're having a ball, Jimbo.
How could 5.10 hurt so much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwmx8oNyus0
"And will you still follow the ancient trail trodden by the wicked?" Job 22:15
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
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Weissner at Devils Tower. 5.7 done in '37. I've backed off it twice now, but I will do it this year. Fritz did it with one pin and hiking boots and apparently I can't do it with two 5's and a 6. Ok so the last time I got the haul bag stuck and was with a thirteen year old that was having a hard time on the lower pitches but.........
Oh I guess this should go on the whining thread.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
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Great writing Jim.....nice story.
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Robb
Social climber
It's Ault or Nunn south of Shy Annie
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
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Playing in front of 20,000 people for the first time.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Apr 17, 2014 - 12:52am PT
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Jim, thanks for the flashback. Did Book of Job in '76. Good stuff! Full servings of everything.
Here are some candidates from Arizona - Candyland (10; just keep going it has to get ease off sooner or later; yeah, right), Green Savior with Crisco Way and Direct Start (8; careful, you might puke), and Coke Bottle Chimney (7; way out, totally thuggish, you gotta be kiddin' this can't be 5.7). All at Granite Mountain.That'll work ya.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 17, 2014 - 01:54am PT
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Loves me some Seneca Rocks!
Mongrel-Who the heck are you? I be Rick Mix. Grew up at Seneca. 70's, very early 80's.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Flank of the Big Horns
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:19am PT
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Every early '70s Jim Kanzler route seems to be pretty modern. I mean timeless. What a strange way to describe an area.
Mike-Save Weissner for when I get over.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:34am PT
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A Steve Roper 4th class can easily turn into a 5.9 or 5.10 outing....
Move left 30 feet, about then, head up an unlikely head wall to some business....Yeah right.
Thank god he only wrote about fifty classics..
If he had written about 100 more there would have been a lot more causalities in the hills....
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:41am PT
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Super Squeeze
Crack of Fear
Perilous Journey
Death and Transfiguration
Southern Arête of the Painted Wall
That's my list and I'm stickin' to it.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:59am PT
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Geezer Highway on Independence Monument is not "modern"
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Wildincognito
climber
Eastside
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Apr 17, 2014 - 03:12am PT
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geezer highway on Independence Monument is not "modern"
HaHa-did somebody just say geezer hIghway. This tread (troll) has legs. Nice one!
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Apr 17, 2014 - 08:11am PT
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You may not be modern but you've stayed contemporary, good job Jim. If 5.12 is the modern threshold I'd say I've never been modern but was new once upon a time.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Apr 17, 2014 - 08:36am PT
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Jim,
Good story. Sounds like I was lucky not to go up that one with you!
Haul that young "5.12" climber up the SS, and see him whimper.
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richross
Trad climber
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Apr 17, 2014 - 11:04am PT
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Modern Times is not modern. ;)
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Apr 17, 2014 - 11:05am PT
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Nice list Philo, from that list I've done one (super squeeze), backed off one early, as a second (crack of fear) and would not even consider the rest. Nothing "modern" about me.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 17, 2014 - 11:20am PT
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Techniques rarely used in "modern" climbing were called into action.....arm bars, heel toes and every stem position possible. 10b eh....I sandbagged myself, felt like an "old school" climber again and not just old. What a workout and only for 5.10 credit.
Sick old puppy. Clint too.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
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Apr 17, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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Being "informed" about modern only means that you have indeed arrived.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Hair dyed black like Reagan and a face tuck. Problem solved.
;>)
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BFK
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
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How about the Yawn,... especially the "5.7" corner on pitch 3. Good Grief! That'll make you swallow your pride.
Texas Flake is another one that burned more calories than I expected,... but I think that was from mostly fear.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Apr 17, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
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A modern route that is a real rope stretcher is 29 meters. A big rack is 20 quickdraws.
Pre-modern is about any route you find with a "+" after it.
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CalicoJack
climber
CA
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Apr 17, 2014 - 05:14pm PT
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The 5.8 squeeze on P2 of Eeyore's Enigma at the Leap. I'm pretty sure that broke my 'wide curious' streak I had going last year...
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Apr 17, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
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20 draws kind of wieghs a lot. And it is now 34.5 meters is a rope stretcher.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Apr 17, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
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I do not know are those climbs "Modern" or Not, -( Donini knows better) but they are stelar:
Anticipation
Leanie Meanie
Vendetta p5
The Enema
This and That
Cramming
Mongolian Clusterf*#k
Siberian Swarm Screw
Hand Job
Goldrush
Basket Case
Book of Job
Overhang Overpass
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 17, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
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Donini dinner, not modern thread bump.
I think my ancient Choss Crawls mostly don't qualify, or are lost in Guide-book-less, no history.
Dream of White Sheep on Idaho's Salmon River around 1981, was one of those. Poison Ivy crawl start, and big off-width, to barely-surviving a car-door sized slab that trashed the rock, numbed my ankle, and made for great rock-fall below.
Couldn't have done it without Avery Tichner doing the bold leads. He actually rated it a 10d.
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OR
Trad climber
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Apr 17, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
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Book of Job is a great climb. Fond memories of me and Mr. Way on that one.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
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I second the nomination for the Yawn!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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Book of Job was mucho work for only 5.10 credit but everytthing evens out, did South by Southwest yesterday.....minimal effort for 5.11 credit.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Apr 18, 2014 - 03:43pm PT
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Guess I'll never be a modern climber.
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protour
Trad climber
Concord, CA
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Apr 18, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
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I'm not modern or oldschool...
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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:05am PT
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Here's the Book of Job.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:34am PT
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Book of Job is a great route. Jim is right, it is steep and requires A LOT of tricks. Maybe no move is harder than 5.10b but it does have a lot of 5.10b moves. I remember some OW action and some committing moves in a finger crack. Than there is some bush blocking your holds in the end. I wanted to chop that thing...
Vendetta has a lot of different techniques through the climb if you take into consideration more than one pitch. Ho Chi Minh Trail. Hardd. Windfall/Windchill. New Dimensions. Rostrum. Steck Salathe. I think North Buttress of Middle is pretty full value for 5.10a.
Book of Job was mucho work for only 5.10 credit but everytthing evens out, did South by Southwest yesterday.....minimal effort for 5.11 credit.
On the last new route I did there is a 60M OW/Chimney with a cruxy thin move to enter. After it my knees lost skin, both sides of my back lost skin. It involved heel toes, foot stacks, going through a bulgy-roofy thing in the middle, sick stemming, changing sides mid way up and some cool squeeze chimney climbing. Not even talking about the mental test of running it out 20ft above the last placement with solid 5.10 OW moves. That thing took A TON of energy out of me. Probably didn't have a move harder than 5.10c, but seemed harder than Twilight ZOne. Since I was rating it I gave myself a credit for 11a : )
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:45am PT
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Go from Crepe's Corner at Pie Shop or Jane's Spy at Luther Spires to Sheister or East Chimney at Sugarloaf and the difference will be clear.
Benny Hill theme song also not modern.
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WHC
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
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Apr 30, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
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Crack of Dome and Despair - outstanding premodern problems.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 30, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
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Regular route, Higher Cathedral Spire. 5.9
The nasty accident last week reminded me of how tough that route is. Especially the first two pitches. First free ascent by Chuck Wilts and Spencer Austin, 1944. OUCH!
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Al Fylak
Trad climber
Rochester Hills, MI
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Apr 30, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
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Interesting topic because it is obvious that ratings have changed in 20 - 30 years. When I was in great climbing shape back in the 1980's, 10c was about the best I could muster. Now, 30 years later and 30 lbs heavier I can climb 5.11 in the the gym. The answer is obvious .. modern climbing is delusional climbing. Climbing ratings inflate just like the dollar and most things in life given enough time. Nothing really wrong with that but it is not realistic to compare the old and the new, especially when the old often required placing marginal pro from awkward stances. I am not against hard bolted climbs, but it is not an apples to apples comparison.
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Johnathan Farley
climber
South lake Tahoe, CA
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+1 on Coke Bottle at Granite Mountain. Quality 5.7 terrain.
Good thread.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Not Modern!!
Pure Quoz.
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I'd agree that Steck Salathe, LA chimney, and Ahab are all on the list of "sandbag the wunderkind" routes. But recall that Harding somehow managed to writhe up that goddamned Harding slot on the East Face (now Astroman) on the Column. Back in 1950something, before the word 5.10 even came into the lexicon. That was a ballsy, hardassed lead, and it's still a horrible grunt of a pitch, getting up into and then squeezing your ass up through that ruthless granodiorite birthing canal sonofabitch. I'd also like to nominate the 10b O.W. on both Keeler Needle AND the one on SW face of Conness, both Harding invented torture devices as well, although Warren originally bashed bolts into the wall to get by the O.W. on Conness. Basically, you wanna sandbag a kid who's full of himself and his ability to do one appendage pullups with the tip of his sporto-diet emaciated winky? Find an old Harding route, and turn him loose on being the "rope gun". Then sit back, crack a cold one, and wait for the forehead sweat and the self dialogue fearful mutterings to start wafting back down to the belay. Personally, I think it was copious amounts of the Christian Brothers Brandy that made all that wide crack suffering possible and bearable for Warren. He was sponsored, you know.... But let's not forget scary slabby shite like "Misty Beethoven", either. There's more than one way to take all the the skin off a cool, young cat.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Modern is bolted anchors and power drilling your pro bolts where it is illegal to do so.
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MisterE
climber
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May 10, 2014 - 09:51pm PT
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This oughta do:
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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May 10, 2014 - 10:08pm PT
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Nice Rack MisterE! I need me the new smalls.
The Labyrinth Wall on Cannon.
Path of the Elders on Chiefshead,RMNP.
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Sanskara
climber
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May 10, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
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Lab wall!
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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May 12, 2014 - 11:49pm PT
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Modern means you rappel in from the top and swing around on a Mini-Traxion all day.
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Heffey
Trad climber
Nashville, TN
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May 13, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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I would have to say the DNB on Middle Cathedral. Not every kind of thuggish climbing, but for me, with the run-outs, length, and the last 4 pitches of chimneys, made it epic!
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