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Messages 1 - 85 of total 85 in this topic
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 16, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
The issue of the Journal of Neuroscience containing this article will be published today. I could not find a preprint on the net. Apparently this work extends previous work to include study of casual use.
"Casual Use" is poorly defined. Hopefully the full source will be available in the next day or so.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm


Brain changes associated with casual marijuana use in young adults: More 'joints' equal more damage
Date: April 15, 2014
Society for Neuroscience (SfN)

Summary:
The size and shape of two brain regions involved in emotion and motivation may differ in young adults who smoke marijuana at least once a week, according to a study published April 16 in The Journal of Neuroscience. The findings suggest that recreational marijuana use may lead to previously unidentified brain changes, and highlight the importance of research aimed at understanding the long-term effects of low to moderate marijuana use on the brain.

Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States, with an estimated 18.9 million people reporting recent use, according to the most current analysis of the National Survey on Drug Use and Mental Health. Marijuana use is often associated with motivation, attention, learning, and memory impairments. Previous studies exposing animals to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) -- the main psychoactive component of marijuana -- show that repeated exposure to the drug causes structural changes in brain regions involved with these functions. However, less is known about how low to moderate marijuana use affects brain structure in people, particularly in teens and young adults.

In the current study, Jodi Gilman, PhD, Anne Blood, PhD, and Hans Breiter, MD, of Northwestern University and Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to compare the brains of 18- to 25-year olds who reported smoking marijuana at least once per week with those with little to no history of marijuana use. Although psychiatric evaluations ruled out the possibility that the marijuana users were dependent on the drug, imaging data revealed they had significant brain differences. The nucleus accumbens -- a brain region known to be involved in reward processing -- was larger and altered in its shape and structure in the marijuana users compared to non-users.

"This study suggests that even light to moderate recreational marijuana use can cause changes in brain anatomy," said Carl Lupica, PhD, who studies drug addiction at the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and was not involved with this study. "These observations are particularly interesting because previous studies have focused primarily on the brains of heavy marijuana smokers, and have largely ignored the brains of casual users."

The team of scientists compared the size, shape, and density of the nucleus accumbens and the amygdala -- a brain region that plays a central role in emotion -- in 20 marijuana users and 20 non-users. Each marijuana user was asked to estimate their drug consumption over a three-month period, including the number of days they smoked and the amount of the drug consumed each day. The scientists found that the more the marijuana users reported consuming, the greater the abnormalities in the nucleus accumbens and amygdala. The shape and density of both of these regions also differed between marijuana users and non-users.
"This study raises a strong challenge to the idea that casual marijuana use isn't associated with bad consequences," Breiter said.

This research was funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, the Office of National Drug Control Policy, Counterdrug Technology Assessment Center, and the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.

Edit:
Locker is correct. Use of alcohol is also known to alter the brain. Further, much work is needed to investigate the use of multiple agents. Once the changes have been quantified, further work to assess possible effects will be needed.

It is too early to dive into "bad" and "good".

Edit2:

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529.full.pdf+html

Kerwin found the full article. Unfortunately one has to subscribe. Hopefully the article will be available for free eventually. It should be.

At the one Vulgarian party I attended, certain activities were going on. My wife at the time, with great heat, immediately informed me she would leave me if I ever indulged in that burnable material.

I will admit to one great personal failure. I never make impulsive decisions. I have tried to correct that fatal weakness but have so far been unsuccessful.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
Oh noz! Don't smoke the evil weed. Itz bad for ewe.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
Chicks dig my huge deformed nucleus accumbens.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
Totally jonesing for some m&ms right now.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
In all research there is a difference between statistically different, and clinically different.

In this case, even though it is statistically and observationally different, the pros outweigh the cons clinically for people who choose to use it.








I love the argument, sure it is bad for me, but so are other things I choose to do! Pretty universal.
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
"marijuana" is a slang term--"scientific" papers that use this word have little to no significance to the understanding of the cannabis plant...


Proceed :-)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Caution.

This was a study using a very small number of people. The summary does not include statistics, which are important. Also important is the controlling of other factors, and that is not available in the summary.

We gotta read the actual article to really know what this says, if anything.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
I tried it a handful of times early in my life, and concluded that anywhere it would get me that I would want to be, I can get there on my own.

I preferred to cultivate my ability to let go, to keep things in perspective, to cope with adversity, to stop the mental chatter that gets in the way of really being present and perceiving the beauty that is all around us in everything and everyone, regardless of what other crap may obscure it.
Byran

climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
A sample of 40 people seems really small for this type of study. But I'm sure its significance will be blown way out of proportion by Fox News and company.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
It was a pilot study of 40 people and should be expanded to gain real results, according to the person in charge of the study.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
Why is there a lack of studies on pot?

http://blog.norml.org/2010/01/27/why-isn%E2%80%99t-there-more-medical-marijuana-research-because-the-feds-won%E2%80%99t-allow-it-that%E2%80%99s-why/
Sanskara

climber
Apr 16, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
Dope was great when I was a kid, as an adult well that's for you to decide. But hey that's just like my opinion man. Not like a bunch of stoners are brainwashing their women to act as a human shield for them or something..

Although I have seen some really really nasty sh#t go down in regard to the illegal economy surrounding it.

The Canadian Italian mafia that controls much of norther California's outdoor grow is nothing to f*#k with. It's for real!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:00pm PT
"It was a pilot study of 40 people and should be expanded to gain real results, according to the person in charge of the study."

Wow 40 people, that's a determinant cross section for sure, at least it was exapndo sh#t man.
Legalize it and let the unlucky people filling our prisons because they got caught with 4oz of the dank free.
This civilized society is neither.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:04pm PT

"marijuana" is a slang term--"scientific" papers that use this word have little to no significance to the understanding of the cannabis plant...


Proceed :-)

Stupid scientists. Prolly guberment funded.
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
Nutagain! What have you done to stop the chatter? Mine is building to a crescendo.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529.full.pdf+html
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
It's been known for some years by researchers that heavy Cannabis use causes significant brain changes. What is different about this recent study is that they have discovered many more specific changes at much lower cannabis dosages . In other words, the brain abnormalities they have noted at higher doses are being seen at much lower doses, at certain specific brain sites.
For instance,they have known for quite some time that cannabis use effects the prefrontal cortex---especially at chronically high doses.
This new study has established that there are profound effects in young users at relatively low doses in the Nucleus Accumbens and the Amygdala.

Here are some traditional SPECT ( single photon emission computerized tomography) scans.

The holes indicate areas of the brain where there is little or no metabolic activity.





Here is a comparison of healthy vs. Heroin
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
The study methods are OK,
but the way this is being titled in the popular press
does not match what was measured.

They did not measure Changes to the brain.
This would require before and after measurements.
They just observed differences between the two groups of people
at a single point in time.
Plus the users are self-selected.

It is kind of like comparing NFL offensive linemen with a random sample of guys
and concluding that playing offensive line causes your body weight
to change from the national average to 300.
Or that playing in the NBA makes you grow taller.
In this kind of simple study, because you don't have randomized treatment,
the causation (if it exists) could go the opposite direction.

It's explained well here:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/GeneralNeurology/45290
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
Concerning Locker’s charge that chocolate can cause changes in the brain. He did not mention that chocolate contains chemicals that may be implicated in Parkinson’s disease.

Phenylethylamine is a natural alkaloid, a chemical related to amphetamines, which crosses the blood-brain barrier.


https://www.worldhealth.net/forum/thread/99096/bad-news-for-chocolate-lovers-compound-i/?page=1

April 12, 2013 by NATASHA LONGO
Chocolate Lover? Compound Inside Cocoa Beans Causes Parkinson's - GMO Cocoa Trees To Increase Its Concentration

There may be many chocolate lovers who are disappointed with new research coming out of India urging consumers to limit their chocolate intake because it is the one food enriched in a component linked to Parkinson's Disease. Moreover, with the intention of flooding 70 percent of the global cocoa supply with genetically modified (GMO) cocoa tree hybrids, collaborations between the largest chocolate manufacturers are set to increase the concentration of this component in cocoa beans.

The review published in the Neuroscience Bulletin by Borah et al. at the Assam University in India said that Beta-phenethylamine (Beta-PEA), a naturally occurring component found in cocoa beans and its by products, may be a cause of Parkinson's Disease.

Phenylethylamine is a natural alkaloid, a chemical related to amphetamines, which functions as a neuromodulator or neurotransmitter in the central nervous system. In addition to its presence in all mammals, phenethylamine is found in many other organisms and foods, such as chocolate, especially after microbial fermentation. It is also found in wine and cheese. But the highest trace amounts have been reported in chocolate.

It is sold as a dietary supplement for purported mood and weight loss-related therapeutic benefits; however, orally ingested phenethylamine is claimed to be inactive because of extensive presystemic metabolism whereby its concentration is greatly reduced before it reaches the systemic circulation. This typically prevents significant concentrations from reaching the brain.

However, an earlier study by Sengupta et al. found that synthetic Beta-PEA at doses of 0.63 and 1.25 mg/day could cause Parkinson's symptoms meaning it is bypassing presystemic metabolism and trace concentrations are indeed reaching the brain. Chocolate contains averages between these levels.

The problem is not related to natural sources of Beta-PEA, but synthetic and enriched varieties claim the researchers. "As consumption of some Beta-PEA-enriched food items has become an addiction in modern life, our proposed mechanism is of enormous significance and impact," they stated..

They added: "Limited consumption of these foods is recommended."………
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
Much work is needed in this field.

Just don't let stoners do it.

"I estimate 18.9 million people reporting recent use, sir."
"Whatever, Mr. Locker. Have you any papers, man!?"
"Yes, and here are the M&Ms you asked me to get from the machine."

Those green brains remind me of M&Ms; and I can't help it..."it's all in my mind."

I prefer Ghirardelli's milk chocklit, myself.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
Hard to believe only 19 million are working the herb. Been over 25 years for me and I still feel a little spaced at times.

JL
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
A-hah.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Kids shouldn't smoke or drink, everyone knows that.
Spanky

Social climber
boulder co
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
As is the case with most illegal drugs the grey area in the legal sense has meant that legitimate scientific research on these substances has been extremely limited. As Clint said this study tells us almost nothing in terms of how long term users brain function is altered just that their are some structural differences which may or may not have any affect on function. What we really need to determine the effects of marijuana are FDA style double blind studies that provide real stats. Until then all of these informal studies will continue to misinform the public.
julton

climber
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
Chocolate contains anandamide which binds to the same receptor in the brain as THC, for whatever that's worth.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
Hard to believe only 19 million are working the herb. Been over 25 years for me and I still feel a little spaced at times.

JL

Can't tell if this was meant to be sarcastic or a joke (in which case ignore my comment), but if it's "for real":
consider that people who never smoked herb, drank alcohol, or did anything else fun also have plenty of "senior moments" and the like.
It's human nature to try to find a cause for our problems, but that doesn't mean we're right.

It's probably impossible for any of us to take drugs/drink, wait 25 years, and then determine what may have been different if we didn't take drugs/drink.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
I'm dumb enough as it is... don't need anything else to add to it
Inner City

Trad climber
East Bay
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
Don't Criticize it!
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
I just like bacon.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 16, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
I started smoking A TON of weed in college... like once a day... just to see if I could get as stupid as all the people around me. It didn't work so I gave up and started drinking. That worked, but only for a few hours at a time.

I tried bacon once and knew I'd be hooked for life if I wasn't careful.
grover

climber
Northern Mexico
Apr 16, 2014 - 04:40pm PT
mmmmmm bacon.

nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Apr 16, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
considering the world as it is, this does not seem like a major problem.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
For most of you this will be long-winded babble. But for those of you in the searching phase, struggling to find the order in the chaos, I offer this as my personal experience.

Nutagain! What have you done to stop the chatter? Mine is building to a crescendo.

Here is one possible answer to the immediate question, with very little context or background. Imagine that your brain is divided up into two little kids arguing in the back seat of a car: the Intellect trying to get the other kid to do what they're supposed to do (what mommy and daddy told them?), and then there's the Emotional one that just wants to jump and shout when they're joyful, cry and sob when they're sad or scared, shout and shake their fists or break stuff when they're angry, etc. Now imagine the Emotional one doing something for fun, the Intellect one telling them they're going to get in trouble, the Emotional one getting pissed that the Intellect is trying to stop them, and ignoring it and doing something in retaliation to piss off the Intellect and get them both in more trouble, and the Intellect trying even harder to clamp down and get the Emotional one to stop.... maybe the Intellect alternates and tries different strategies like laying out a logical and rational reason for the Emotional one to behave a certain way... but when it doesn't work right away the Intellect falls back into being demanding and controlling; maybe there is bargaining involved, like "just do this for me and then I'll let you...." And then sometimes the Emotional one gets very scared or upset or otherwise can't cope with a situation, and the Intellect tries their best to cope with it, maybe by berating the Emotional one and saying "I told you so" or maybe by trying in a round-about way to console the Emotions by changing the subject, getting engaged in some distracting activity, fogging over and tuning out.... Well, the details of the dialogue change for different people's histories and issues and circumstances, but the back-and-forth squabbling, negotiating, justifications, ignoring, etc. all contribute to that mental chatter. Learning to create a deeper understanding between the different parts of one's Intellect and Emotional self, learning to understand and appreciate the contributions of each part to who we are, and learning to honor the needs of each part.... Well, this is the essence of stopping that mental chatter.


Everyone has their own issues and history and follows their own path. This is how mine went:
 I committed to a highly dysfunctional marriage, where an emotionally healthy person would have RUN away almost immediately. Clear alarm bells within the first weeks of the relationship. It was sufficiently painful that over a period of years it became relatively less scary and painful to face my inner demons, childhood issues that contributed to my part of the difficult marriage.
 I read self-help books, took a very analytic (but emotionally disconnected) approach to recognizing negative patterns in my marriage that I wanted to stop. We tried couples counseling. I tried personal counseling.
 After years of "trying harder" and pre-thinking scenarios and how I should handle them, and utterly failing in the heat of the moment, I accepted that there was something else going on that I was not comprehending, something that overpowered and rendered useless my intellectual efforts to troubleshoot my relationship and behavioral problems
 I enrolled myself in a weekly anger management class. In this class, they discussed the amygdala in our brain, and the idea of a "fight or flight" response, along with how we can make balancing thoughts that use our intellect to shift away from our perceptions that we are in danger. This gave me a concept to latch onto to explain what I had intuitively realized and observed but not been able to articulate.
 In further self-help book reading, and exploring what triggered the "fight or flight" response for me, I became aware of a very scary "OH SH!T" reservoir of feelings inside of me that, upon just perceiving the edges of it I had a strong desire to run very far away from it. Pit in the stomach, lump in the throat, difficulty breathing, tears welling up, back away quickly oh sh!t I don't want to go there primal kind of stuff.
 I accepted that my intellect wasn't going to solve this directly, that I needed to go in a different dimension (emotional) to diffuse the mental landmines, to operate on the level of my fight/flight triggers. I didn't know explicitly how to do that, but I had an inkling that it would be an experiential process, attempting to re-experience or directly access the emotional state at the time the "landmines" were laid in my brain and somehow re-etch those deeply burned in neural pathways. I knew I would be in an unthinkably vulnerable spot while dealing with this, and started looking around for some sort of a "retreat" or safe place to do this. I discovered some options akin to a "heal your inner child" thing, basically a week-long pajama party at a psychologists' house to dig into it all, and I was mentally preparing for that.
 Meanwhile, my internet searches led me to an essay about the Hoffman Process that deeply resonated with me on intellectual and emotional levels:
http://www.hoffmanireland.com/articles/joan.htm

At that point, I was in pretty strong rebellion against anything spiritual, largely as a rebellion against my mother and her embracing 12-step programs and new-agey positive affirmations and stuff like that. But the other pieces were strong enough that for me, this became the Grand Unified Theory for understanding myself and others. Everything I read just rang true with my loosely coupled and intuitively cobbled together notions about these issues and how to address them:
https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/PPFL-4Email.pdf


Well, I went to this retreat for 8 days. Before that, I probably spent about 40 hours on preparatory homework to get the most out of it, very methodically inventorying detailed personality traits and being as brutally honest as I was capable of being, and looking for patterns to where those traits came from in each of my parents and step-parents, whether I was doing the same things or opposite things. Think of it like this: we are born with certain potential and individuality. As we grow, we develop certain automated responses to handle situations in our childhood. These things make our childhood easier to cope with, but it screws up our ability to live an adult life, with different circumstances than our childhood, in an intentionally directed way.

Anyways, I was committed. Even so, I was still conflicted and fearful about this whole retreat, and I arrived 30 minutes late after staying up all night before. At some point I might write more about my personal journey during those 8 days and the time afterward... but that's for another time. For now, I can confidently say that committing to that experience was the best gift I ever gave myself, a major milestone in my life journey that transformed how I perceive and feel and think about many things.

Oh... original question... all of this long answer was providing a context or background for my path to stop the chatter in my head. There was a specific sequence of activities during that 8 day retreat where the voices came to a shocking and utterly complete stop, and I had a perma-grin on my face like you wouldn't believe. And in the absence of all that other head stuff, there was room to notice so much more of what was around me: smells, sights, sounds, every perceptual stimuli turned up to eleven. But not in a drunken Dumbo dream sort of way, or the Cream Disraeli Gears record cover sort of way, but in an honest rich reality sort of way, with a strong sense of being deeply connected to everything around me. The intensity of that original experience is something special in my memory, and maybe the dramatic difference from before and after made it more intense and unfamiliar. At this point, I can frequently lose touch with that feeling, and honestly it's not my daily normal mode of operation. I think that is mainly for my lack of continued development to explore why I choose not to live like that every day. I'm still afraid of facing something to peel that layer back.

But, I am in pretty solid command of the ability to switch into that mode of perception, of mental silence at most moments that I want to. I can decide to stop internal messages and just perceive what is coming in without explicit verbalized monologues or distracting trains of thought.


Over the years I have reigned in my effusiveness or enthusiasm about this program, trying to give people the space to follow their own path and find passion for whatever approach works for them. Going on 12 years now since I went, I think it's safe for me to extol it's virtues without having it seem like a brain-washy psycho-babble pyramid marketing recruitment scheme. It's for real, and has been profoundly useful to people of all ages, with all manner of traumatic histories or normal or good childhoods. Of course some people have more dramatic histories that their stories can be attached to, some people start from a more dysfunctional level than others so the changes seem more remarkable, but the core issues and fears and needs are something that unite all people.
Sanskara

climber
Apr 16, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
Good stuff nut!

Thanks for sharing..

It is a very freeing place to come to in life when you can just slow and shut off the voices, the chatter the Chitta vritti all on your own nothing needed but knowing how..


The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 16, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
Gud read, nutagain. I think. I forgot.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
Larry makes me LOL

I'm munching a bowl of Cheerios. Damn fine Cheerios. Actually they're Trader Joe's O's, but they're damn fine Cheerios.

I also made some wheat-free pancakes with rice flour, potato flour, flax, and stuff like that. They kinda suck. Pamela's brand wheat free pancake mix is where it's at.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 16, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
Much work is needed in this field.

Gimme a break. I'm only one man doing what I can!

It is pretty obvious that it makes you lazy and demotivated.
By not using I could have put up hundreds of classic routes.

Ah well,..
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Apr 16, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
The scientists found that the more the marijuana users reported consuming, the greater the abnormalities in the nucleus accumbens and amygdala. The shape and density of both of these regions also differed between marijuana users and non-users.
"This study raises a strong challenge to the idea that casual marijuana use isn't associated with bad consequences," Breiter said.

 Sorry.... not convinced that this study has anything to do with anything. So we've found that the brains of growing and semi-grown marijuana smokers show signs of changes.

Wether the "changes" are good or bad were not determined, right? Unless you are one of those who thinks that change of any kind of the brain is bad-bad-BAD no matter what is found to be fact later.

What if the changes the researchers have written about are the physical manifestation of that "opening new doors of perception" that many users have reported in the past.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
My momma and daddy told me masturbation would make me go blind. I asked if I could just do it till I needed glasses.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Bacon's a side dish?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
Amazing how potheads get real defensive when confronted with stuff like this. If you perpetually put your mind/brain into this mode, what would you expect?

And yeah, alcohol can cause brain damage as well. This is always the arguement with heads, "but alcohol is just as bad". That's true, but it has also been proven that habitual pot use in your teenage years can cause irreversible damage to critical brain development. Brain-scars, if you will.

Ever since I stopped using marijuana regularly, I've noticed a fog lifted from ability to think clearly and quickly.

And with THC and CBN levels of pot today, the stuff is really quite toxic.

I don't really give a f*#k if you burn or not, just don't deny reality.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:44pm PT
It certainly sounds like an article written by someone on the hunt for grant money.

I hope they find out something interesting in the next round, phrenologically speaking of course,

.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
It certainly sounds like an article written by someone on the hunt for grant money.

Oh, come on, now! Scientists would never do that!!!!
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Apr 16, 2014 - 09:58pm PT
Light or flight response . . .
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
Just skimmed this. Bluey is an established hypocrite, so that isn't news.

Care to elaborate, or are you just going to spout this bullsh#t?

So I picked up guitar again about 18 months ago and all I have to say is that a little puffin makes practice time amazing. No puff, not so much. What could be wrong with that?

It's pretty well documented that marijuana uses stimulates the creative/emotional side of the brain while simultaneously lowering the logical/critical thinking side of the brain. So you're correct that it would prolly help with guitar-playing and creativity.

Question is, what would long-term, chronic use do to your brain chemistry?

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
It's pretty well documented

It is? By whom and where?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:32pm PT
There have been brain scans done before and after marijuana use on brain activity. Which parts are stimulated and others that are degraded.

It's well-known. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260974/

images
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=brain+activity+marijuana&qpvt=brain+activity+marijuana&FORM=IGRE
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:41pm PT
^^^ have another 6pack and reconsider.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:48pm PT
I'm not denying the adverse affects of alcohol, Johnson. And thanks for making my point about 'heads' pointing to alcohol damage, but denying marijuana effects on the body and mind.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 16, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
That's not what I said that is what you assumed.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 16, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
Yes indeed.

Although there are a number of important implications of the findings presented here, they should be interpreted within the context of several limitations. Although the results of this study are consistent with the notion that chronic MJ use modifies brain functioning associated with monetary decision-making, the design of the present study does not allow for a causal conclusion about the link between MJ use and brain function or decision-making.

...

Despite these limitations, the results presented here provide further evidence that MJ may alter brain functioning. The findings from this study extend previous human neuroimaging findings that have focused more on purely cognitive processes by examining brain activation on a monetary decision-making task. We hope these findings spur further research to examine the effects of chronic MJ use on motivational processes and decision-making. Indeed, this line of research will have a critical role in forming scientifically based national drug policies.

Apologies to Barry Gordie and Janie Bradford

Money don't buy everything it's true
and what it does buy
you can hardly use

SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 17, 2014 - 06:59pm PT

I wonder if they've researched the effect of supertopo on the brain???
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 17, 2014 - 09:01pm PT
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 17, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:18pm PT

I love botiny !
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
Well, as a former consumer and grower, I can appreciate Pyro's posts on the growers.

There are 2 lines of thought on indoor growing;

1. Grow quick, harvest quick. Last pic on the the last page. You get quick turn-around in a small space, but many, many small plants.

2. Grow large full-season plants that get huge and deliver what multiple smaller plants could do.

To me it's wash. In terms of producing product to sell or support your habit, the shorter route makes obvious sense.

Many people don't know that with changes in light regiments (hours on/hours off) and light color-spectrum, you can actually force plants to go into the budding process, hence, shortening the harvest cycle.

Pot is kinda awesome that way. Very manipulative.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
Bluering--what's the deal, you used to be someone who drank a lot and smoked a lot, and now you're someone who drinks a lot, smokes a little?
And you consider that to be an improvement to your health?

I'm just curious and don't mean anything sarcastic or negative.
My own experience: someone who drank a lot (generally on weekends, but good old-fashioned beer binges most weekend nights), and smoked very little (basically zero). I tried smoking a bit this year somewhat on a whim, and not coincidentally because of the legalization in Colo. that took effect this year.
My limited experience: smoking (or vaping or whatever) can be a substitute for drinking, and you feel a lot better the next day.
I have no strong preconceived notions one way or the other about the health effects of smoking. I believe that going through life mostly sober is the best path, much as I hate to admit it!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 17, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
I have no strong preconceived notions one way or the other about the health effects of smoking. I believe that going through life mostly sober is the best path, much as I hate to admit it
!

I think there is no disputing that.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 22, 2014 - 06:42pm PT
The best way to dry up the supply is to legalize it!

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/pot/2014/07/22/wheres-the-weed-hint-nowhere-the-morning-report-for-july-22/

I thought it was supposed to be like beer and cigarettes.

I'm heading up that way next week. If I want to get loaded in the Evergreen State, it looks like I'll have to bring my own green from California.

crankster

Trad climber
Jul 22, 2014 - 06:45pm PT
I don't trust anyone who doesn't smoke.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 22, 2014 - 07:04pm PT

Is it wrong to eat a Blueberry Muffin that looks just like your dog?


Not when you're high.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
Jul 22, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
It's very unlikely since the drug has such an incredibly low toxicity (look up the LD50 yourself) and mimics a natural brain chemical, I think its called anandamide.

I hate to change the subject but what disturbs me are the brain lesions observed at even moderate altitudes in climbers on Mt Rainier. Now there is something you can really worry about. A published study was done on Mt Everest but the damage also appears to occur at hiking/trekking elevations.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 22, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
Question is, what would long-term, chronic use do to your brain chemistry?

I expect to have results of my long term study available in early 2059. Stay tuned up.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 22, 2014 - 09:22pm PT

growers tip!


Use some DRY-ICE once a week if ur too poor!


edit: plants in a closet need to breath so feed em Co2!
coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Jul 23, 2014 - 02:05am PT
The best thing about sobriety is that smug sense of superiority you feel over people who use drugs and alcohol as a crutch for dealing with reality.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jul 23, 2014 - 03:27am PT
And it's so damn wrong! Or are you being sarcastic?
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
Jul 25, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
did I hear Canadian bacon............................?
............toke cough burp aaaaa
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Jul 25, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Don't hassle the quiters. Quitting is all they've got.
john hansen

climber
Jul 25, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Dry Ice is frozen CO 2.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 25, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
Yeah Just add H20 to the Dry-ice!
poorman closet solution..
Psilocyborg

climber
Jul 25, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 25, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
Bluering--what's the deal, you used to be someone who drank a lot and smoked a lot, and now you're someone who drinks a lot, smokes a little?
And you consider that to be an improvement to your health?

Logically, that is a fact, right? Smoking pot, or anything, is detrimental to yer health. As is alcohol, because the liver treats alcohol as a toxin.

They're both not 'healthy'.

If I quit one one, I should be healthier as long as I don't over-compensate with the other.

My wife is not a big fan of pot. She was always kinda straight, with the occassional wine-cooler. She doesn't understand why people do drugs because she never experimented or needed them.

She doesn't rag on me when I take a couple of hits off a joint every once in a while, she just doesn't see why I do it, or would want to.

Personally, I can do without it, I usually only do it when someone sticks it in my face. But nowadays, I tend to forego it if I'm rolling a beer-buzz. They don't mix well with me. Ask Michelle....
Psilocyborg

climber
Jul 26, 2014 - 07:48am PT
Not smoking put because it is unhealthy is kind of like polishing a turd in modern american society.
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Jul 26, 2014 - 09:01am PT
^^^dopesmoker logic
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jul 26, 2014 - 10:07am PT
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Jul 26, 2014 - 10:50am PT
people still talking about this??







jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
Don't knock it Jingy. This is the only thread of mine that got a reply. lol
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jul 26, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Jul 26, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
This is the only thread of mine that got a reply. lol

 But for all the wrong reasons.... I mean you got Blue to talk about his past illegal activity.... sh#t that's gonna be useful somewhere I'm sure....


But I'm not buying the brain damage from THC connection.... Not to mention the research out pn the benefits of CBD and all the other cannabinoids present in current supplies of Cannabis on the market today....
Look into it stan, I know you of all people would give this the most open minded/sensible review... Don't just stop with the Sanjay Goopta report, but there are sites devoted to providing current research out there...

I did a search for: Medical Cannabis Research to find the following:
I don't know the validity of these sites, but the names have reputations (I've heard)
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu

http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php --- clinical studies being conducted on consenting adult members of the public using drugs that cause brain damage (see how that just slides the mind into litigation?)... hopefully none of this brain damage stuff ends up costing these researchers everything...

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/patient/page2

I'm not knocking your post... I just have this ridiculous need to post my opinion about this subject... it's the only thing I think I know anything about... and still I know that I know little with regards to all the information out there.
JonA

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Jul 26, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
I for one am certain that getting harm doesn't high brain health whatsoever.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 26, 2014 - 08:05pm PT

is now legal in Cowlowrado and Wishington!
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 26, 2014 - 08:06pm PT
Repeal Prohibition, Again


By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region
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